Star Trek Retro Review: "Q2" | Q Episodes
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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#startrek #startrekvoyager
Honestly, I'd have rather had Q Jr. turn up in the post-credit stinger for Picard Season 3 than Q himself. It still would've been fan service, but I could see it working. Have Jack say something like "I suppose you want to just pick up where our fathers left off?" And Q Jr. can be like, "Where would the fun in that be? We can chart our own course."
I thought the same thing when I first saw that scene, but I since found that Q2 was Keegan De Lancie's last acting credit; he is now doing very different work. It would have meant getting a different actor. Not that that can't be done, but I don't think it would have had the same impact. That scene was a cameo appearance, and it really requires the character/actor to be be instantly recognisable to get the intended reaction from viewers.
i definitely think it could of worked, yeah
Same. Like Picard is passing the torch so Q is too!
Not really. You could just have Jack say he thought Q was dead, and Qunior reply. That was my pops. The Continuum, in it's infinite wisdom, has given me his old job, so.. shall we begin? Quick. Done.
@@richardvinsen2385
@@Bastion90 Not necessarily...just because Keegan isn't a regular actor any more doesn't mean he wouldn't be willing to come back for a quick cameo. Of course, all of the other issues still apply, in that it would just be for fanservice unless it was setting up a regular story going forward.
John's son perfectly captured his father's energy and sass.
Keegan de Lancie, an officer of the US Foreign Service and Fullbright Fellow, deserves a better Wikipedia intro than just "American former actor"
That's a good point! What if he had never done any acting at all? There are a lot of children of actors who don't become actors themselves.
Keegan de Lancie did a damn fine job with a terribly written part IMHO. The best scenes were definitely the ones where he was bouncing off his dad.
One thing to note is that if Icheb and junior were such good friends where was junior when he died. I figure that if you have a friend in the continuum you have someone looking out for you in a way. For example the episode Tapestry in TNG.
God, that would have been a much better Q/ Continuum tie-in than what they did 🥲
Like giving Seven a badass revenge arc is cool and all, but also.
That assums unfortunatly that the writers actully knew about these episodes or looked them up.
But they failed us with Guinan forgetting the first time she met Picard so of course non of them knew either of Icheb and Q junior being friends at all.
After all how could we expect proper resarch for a show set in an already existing setting.
I always had a soft spot for this episode. Watching Janeway go schoolteacher mode is always an enjoyable aspect of her character, and Q2 does show actual growth and remorse. His father is still, appropriately, a dick, and bad at being a parent, and while this particular episode doesn't feature one of de Lancie's more memorable moments, he is still recognizably Q, and not a flanderized caricature. It's also one of our rare glimpses into Q society, which has always fascinated me. What the hell is a Continuum as a political body anyway?
Not to mention, Q2 is, undoubtedly, Q's son - you wouldn't mistake him for anyone else.
All in all, I think this particular episode is far above the average for Voyager, and it singlehandedly, imo, redeems the Q and the Grey. Or at least sort of justifies it.
Prodigy very embraced Janeway's schoolteacher persona.
Which was a good choice, though she did sometimes seem careless of the safety of her young protégés.
How is "DON'T PROVOKE THE BORG!" a boring reaction? If anything, its interesting. Its like Q fears them, like they can actually do something to him (or even the Continuum as a whole).
Quippersnapper would have been another good one, given that he's full of silly quips.
best line in the episode:
Q: you should have seen your faces, or wait you can
**proceed to magically appear 2 mirrors**
'The Squire Of Gothos' might have been a worthy addition to the Q episode reviews, given as Trelane was kind of a prototype for Q and has been all but canonised as one by the Star Trek fandom.
Looking forward to the other Earth reviews.
"You think this bothers me? I work for Rick Berman" made me smile. :)
“Hide and Q” is a campy anti-classic and whatever faults it has it doesn’t feature Q acting like painfully cartoonish Bewitched rejected mugging for the camera. (Plus Wesley gets bayoneted in that episode and that has to make the anti-Wesley crowd happy, right?)
As much as I'm here for the subject matter, Steve's excellent writing and engaging delivery is what I enjoy most. The essence of storytelling, even if only a review of other stories.
“It was me Qunior, it was me all along” - I think Vince could take Q, look at that BEEF
Huh, I usually see Q’s son referred to as q, not as Q Jr. Either way I support Qunior at least as a pronunciation.
Also, I did *not* know he was John de Lancie’s son! That’s cool.
"A Borg droning"? Steeeeeeven pleaaase you're killing me in the first few seconds.
"Q-nyer" has made my whole subscription to your channel worthwhile
I think the best thing about this episode was seeing LeVar Burton's name in the credits.
That coarse Q gave to Janeway. Brought the voyager near that transwarp hub.
Bro, The Qid is MONEY! Well done.
Excuse me but I watch voyager for over 7 years & I enjoyed it
Oh God, direct hit w/ Neelix and being 'good with children'.
That relationship was so creepy. It made me hate the character of Neelix. I really can't watch Voyager because of the cringe.
I have a faint memory (all my Voyager memories are faint) that Neelix WAS good with children or at least liked to spend time with them.
Did he have quite a bit of screen time with Naomi?
Dude the savagery of Voyager is a loving type of roasting that ALWAYS makes me laugh.
"Try watching it for seven years" 😂😂😂 Steve you are something else..never change man..never change 😅😅
I actually liked this episode, but I agree it could have been better and tried to do too much. For me the main issue was that I never fully understood what was motivating Qunior. I mean, there is one moment when he expresses his frustrations about the expectations pressed upon him to be 'the savior of the Q continuum', but it's never connected to why he's messing up. We also learn that Q's mate, Lady Q, has disowned her child due to embarrassment at his antics. Knowing your mother thought you enough of an embarrassment that she straight up abandoned you and your father could also have been a cause of Qunior's misbehavior, but again, that connection was never made either. In short, the idea was just 'he's his father's son, so for absolutely no reason he's running around the cosmos breaking things for shits and giggles'. You mentioned that this episode has a connection to Deja Q from TNG, but I clearly see the influence of Ned Ground, that is the episode where Alexander rejoins Worf on the Enterprise due to his developing behavior problems that make it impossible for Worf's human parents to care for him in their old age. Yet there the focus stayed on Alexander and Worf, and Councilor Troi helped tie Alexander's issues to a cause. There was no cause with Qunior.
listening to you talk about Q reminds me of why I like him. briefly, he's the perfect fusion of Shakespeare's Puck and Henson's Statler and Waldorf
Q worked best when he was acting off Picard and the crew of the Enterprise D. Stretching Q beyond TNG, is best summed up by the exchange that Q had with Capt. Sisko on Deep Space 9, after Sisko KO's Q with one punch, "you hit me, Picard never hit me." And Sisko says, "I'm not Picard." Q never gelled with any of the characters in the post TNG shows. The writers just kept bringing him back only because he was a fan favorite. Also, bringing him back repeatedly, negates his stellar exit in the TNG finale, "All Good Things". Q teaches Picard more about life in that one series finale than he ever did in a tired three season sub-par series set decades later.
Also i don't mind the Voyager episodes, i really watched for tech and other stuff, even Harry Kim being Ensign forever never bothers me and it seems nitpicking.
But what i do love is your commentary & recap of the shows and the roasting of Voyager, its as if you understand that people like myself like it and you take a "it not the beat part of Trek but someone loves it" view and i genuinely love that you frame it in such a way...
So that's what i think about the episode/s your recaps and commentary
Oh no... miri is going to be a tough one. As i recall, it doesn't do much with the alternate Earth bit, and the stuff between Miri and Kirk is creepy.
Qunior and Icheb bonded when they fell into that nest of gundarks.
I remember this episode happening but have almost no recollection of anything in it. OK, I do remember 7 of 9 briefly getting naked (pure Fanservice, but it did stick in my memory!), but that's about it.
I think this Q series should continue with My Little Pony when they introduced a Q-like antagonist and actually got John De Lancie to voice him. Not just as a way to get Steve to watch a children’s show but also to see if a children’s show could produce a better version of Q than voyager.
Icheb is "droning on"? That's pretty terrible Steve.
Poor Icheb.
He was definitely not very memorable.
AS a gay man, his son was super cute back then. I had such an attraction to him when I was a teen :)
Yeah it feels so weird looking back at how big a crush I had on him...
Wonder what happened to that actor...
I watched the episode because of your review. I don't think I had ever seen it before. I actually thought it was good. Not the best Star Trek has to offer, but I enjoyed it.
Q-A-N-O-N. There. I spelled Incel with a Q.
That's good work.
😂😂 Here's your 🏆 For Best Comment
Qunior was my first thought as well - though I still like the idea of him being Trelane much more.
I still wonder why Q said, "Don't provoke the Borg!". Do the borg have something that frightens the Q?
Perhaps he was practising his anxious, fretful parents schtick.
Can't wait for the TOS Retro Reviews. Looking forward to them!
I always think of Q's son as lowercase q
I believe that was the convention Greg Cox adopted for baby Q in his "The Q Continuum" trilogy.
Qunior and Icheb deserved a Friendship Montage.
Tiny, omnipotent Bill Mumy was way terrifying.
'Course, that show had writers.
🤡💯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 🖖🏾
The effortless shift from bagging on dice nerds into a stone-cold classic wrestling nerd quote was a thing of beauty to behold. Bravo.
"Try watching it for seven years!" That's evil, even given your known let's say mild dislike of VOY. Whenever I binge watch my DVD collection of VOY, time just flies by. it never feels longer than... well seven years.
As far as my headcanon is concerned, this wasn't the end of Q. He decided that he was finally too bored with his own universe and decided to find a different one to mess with, one as different from his as possible. So he left his universe, changed his physical form to better suit his new one, and gave himself the name Discord.
When I was a kid, and desperately trying to convince myself that Voyager was good, actually, I convinced myself that Qunior was Trelane, and that this episode was something of a sequel to The Squire of Gothos. I know, I know, it sounds dumb, but it worked for me.
I thought they made it quite clear that he was Trelane and confirmed the novel Q Squared as canon. C'mon, Qunior talked about Kirk like he knew him.
I don't think it's dumb at all.
The Q don't live in linear time so anything's possible.
"Don't provoke the Borg" could have so much potential for a whole story line were we see why the Borg are a thread even vor the Qontinuum though.
I'm sure I watched every episode of Voyager, but this is another episode that I simply do not remember. (I do remember thinking while watching it that they seemed to spend a lot of time messing about in the affairs of locals instead of making a beeline for home like they were supposedly doing.)
On a tangent, the title reminded me of the novel “Q Squared” [Peter David, 1994]. I was wondering if you’ve read that, and what are your thoughts about it.
There are two Trek characters who are the litmus test of how talented a Trek writer is: Dr. McCoy and Q. Both characters are so immensely nuanced (and played to perfection by their respective actors) that it takes a skilled hand indeed to truly bring them to life. A less talented writer would easily stumble to write them so broadly to the point of a bad SNL parody-version. Watch "Q2" and then watch "Tapestry"and you'll get the bends from the disparity in writing quality.
I will not stand for this (completely accurate) Karl Urban slander.
fun fact; they are the two most iconic star trek characters who shared an episode but never interacted; an aged mccoy made a cameo in encounter at farpoint; the episode that introduced Q
Thanks!
TBH the most notable thing about this episode was the fact that Icheb was in it at all -- Voyager? Having characters and plotlines carry over past a single episode?! They must have been really desperate by S7 to actually put a modicum of effort into the show!
I know it was probably a throw-away line to move the plot along, but Q's "Don't provoke the Borg" line has always intrigued me. Q Jnr throwing Voyager in front of the Borg for sh*ts and giggles is quite the interesting foil to Q throwing the Ent-D in front of the Borg to prove a point and I have to wonder if Q's actions in TNG caused major repercussions and lead to one of the few rules the Continuum has to be written.
I don't hate Q2. It's not an episode I look forward to, nor is it one I actively skip, as Steve says, it's kind of by-the-numbers Trek.
im on government disability ... living under the poverty line -- so basically surviving instead of living ... but i love your content steve ... though as im already subscribed to the channel the most i can do is click the like button!! (i would totally support you if i could -- sorry)
I think the Q in PICARD is more like the Q I prefer from his peak (esp. Q Who, DeJa Q, Tapestry). He’s just surrounded by garbage.
I’m old enough to have watched TNG when it was on, and I am utterly, completely blindsided
Voyager had _seven_ seasons?
I thought for sure they must have cancelled it in like three or four.
Huh.
No, that was _Enterprise,_ which followed right behind this show, and no doubt the apathy ppl had for VOY certainly didn’t help that show find an audience.
I literally have no memory of this episode... but i also have almost no memory of Icheb.... i remember being completely un bothered by his death in Picard and confused at others reactions, as if he were some beloved character betrayed.
I think de Lancie had good on-screen chemistry with Stewart. It helped the stories on TNG. The writers exported the character to DS9 and Voyager, and somehow the writing could not make the character of Q fit in exactly. It always seems to be a miss.
Yep exactly. Q had a reason go to back to the Enterprise from time to time. The only thing his appearances on Voyager had an air of "Well TNG isn't being filmed any more, what else am I supposed to do?"
It’s a freaking miracle the producers restrained themselves from doing a Q episode on Enterprise. Or maybe De Lancie said no.
Then again Regeneration was good enough that maybe an episode where Q messed with Archer without Archer knowing it or what was going on but the writers took full advantage of the dramatic irony of the audience getting it could have worked.
But maybe Regeneration only worked in that regard because it was a horror story. And Q walking around in the background of Archer’s Enterprise playing pranks would have just ended up playing like These Are the Voyages.
I find Steve smart and funny. I also find Voyager smart and funny. Not sure how to wrap my head around that. 😂
Voyager is my favorite of the Trek series I’ve seen. I’ve never been able to define why, though.
@@zorakj to me every Trek crew has its own feel. Voyager has a survivalist bond cause they are cast out in space without support. To me it feels like they are closer to each other than other crews. That's why I love it anyway.
Boring a hole through pluto made me do a double take, I havn't seen this episode man, and honestly, bong in hand, I can figure out rn if you're pulling my leg or not. Did the Qid do that? Because if not, I mean, he could have, right? Right?
I love this one, it's so fun.
Steve hating on Voyager? Must be a Tuesday. Or Wednesday. Or Monday. Or...
Where does the "Holy Well of Malvern" line come from or allude to?
Source of a famous English mineral water.
But I agree it was a bit random.
Henry Jones Quinior? They named him after the targ.
Oh, just call him Q-Ball like Itchy did.
I REALLY want to talk to you all about my dice collection now.
I apologize in advance for this message. I love this channel, this is no major criticism. But… Did you do something different with your mic or audio settings for this video? I kept hearing something like a high-pitched sweeping sound, as if a filter is opening or something like that. I can’t stop hearing it..
I really enjoy Q2. As long as I don't think about it, and just go with the flow.
It is a bit too formulaic. It's definitely got similarities to Deja Q (my fav Q episode), but is nowhere near as entertaining.
Is there any TNG guest or villain that Voyager didn't nerf?
Oooh your joke about Neelix being good with children because he used to date one. I smelled that roast from 5 months after this uploaded.
You said the problem with this episode is that it doesn't do anything to distract from the rote, formulaic nature of the story. I have to disagree. That's the problem with virtually every episode of Voyager. Well, at least up to around the middle of season 4 when I tapped out. After almost every episode, I felt like I already saw another Star Trek do that story - only better.
This was the first Voyager episode I ever seen and I was so confused the entire time after only seeing tng
And you still stuck with Voyager anyway?! 😂
My hat is off to you good sir 👍
Really? Removing Neelix's mouth? That's so Charlie-X of you, Qunior.
As Steve was reviewing the episode, I was really hoping he would make some comparisons with Charlie X.
I wonder how much of the crew was quietly disappointed when Q fixed Neelix. 😄
@@edwardphilibin3151
Tuvok in particular might have been shown looking sad or quietly weeping.
Why Q2 though? Why not... _qubed²_ ?
cubed squared
*THE DICHOTOMY OF MAN:*
Me, a Voyager fan: Damn, I love Steve's Voyager reviews. They're so cutting, but hilarious! Steve's awesome!
Me, a Lower Decks fan: Damn, I hate Steve's Lower Decks reviews. They're so cutting, but hilarious... in a mean way. Steve's a jerk.
This is actually why I don't do proper Lower Decks reviews any more, and reserve my comments on the show to the occasional snarky aside.
@@SteveShives
Oh, do you have snarky asides about LDS?
Funny, I hadn't noticed...
😁
This would've served better as a multi-episode arc
6:01 “how do you spell incel with a Q?”
I think that is spelled MAGA
Kes was an adult. She just aged differently. Typical human privilege.
This episode is a far cry from Q putting humanity on trial 😢
as i stated in the previous video comments ... Voyager absolutely ruined Q ... same as they did with the borg ... Voyager took away their 'teeth'
steve thank you for these retro reviews i've truly enjoyed watching them but i have to ask what's the next batch your going to review klingons romulans cardassins ferangi i'm looking forward to the next batch
Voyager seemed to have no ideas of its own, so all it could do was awkwardly yoink plot threads from TNG even though it made no sense to do so.
"how do you spell incel with a Q?" I believe the term you're looking for is "Andr-Q Tate supporter"
What, no Squire of Gothos?
Steve, come on...
Everyone knows there are three types of people.
- Those who are familiar with ternary.
- Those that aren't.
- Those that thought that was another binary joke.
"Qunior" 😆
Indeed nothing is worse than TTRPG Nerds who are talking about Dices. I hate when my group does it. I´m their GM btw.
Q is basically Treks Boba Fett.
Cool at the beginning, but if you ad more and more Backstory to him, he gets lame real fast
HEY!
What is wrong with TTRPG players?!
"It does a few things right, and a few things wrong" could pretty much summarize nearly every single episode of Voyager. Few are horrible, far fewer and great... or even good. Nearly every episode is "meh" that work together to make a series that is just not good.
One good thing came of this episode. The canonical date of the end of Kirk's original five-year mission is established as 2270.
The rest of the 45-odd minutes? A mixture of eh, wha? and meh.
The worst Q episode is easily the DS9 one. That episode was horrendous and Q was so out of character.
3:40 Q can't turn Pluto into a bong. It is a dwarf bong.
I would gather the worst Q episode if from, if not the entirety of, Picard season 2.
Qunior the Quincel
Can we stop and talk abaut q say to 7 abaut her perfectin xd ?
Qunior Isn't quite so qute.
Hey, don't be so quippy. 😜