Once upon a time, in the last century, these recordings were so rare as white raven. I mean, as professional recording & performance as this one you just have presented. Many people can't imagine anymore what a joy it was, founding (in a CD-store for example) such an excellent piece of music performed and recorded so perfectly. You make us glad week by week (sometimes day by day) with the very best recordings of the rarest gems of classical music performances. Thank you once again. This Ouverture is exceptionally beautiful. Thanks.
Just a few notes on this performance by the performer: The French Overture, BWV 831, was re-edited by Bach in 1735 from an existing work in C minor (as you see in the score here) for inclusion (with the Italian Concerto in F major, BWV 971). In order to emphasize the contrast between the two most important national instrumental forms of the day (the Italian concerto and the French ouverture), which made up Part 2 of his ClavierUebung cycle of published keyboard works, he transposed the C minor version of the Ouverture down a half-step into B minor, which lies a tritone away from the F major of the accompanying concerto, or, the greatest possible key-contrast available in the circle of fifths. Those whose ears are used to the modern pitch standard of A=440cps will be further baffled, as you will be hearing (apparently) B-flat minor. So, perhaps it's easiest to just accept that the C minor score is being heard an entire step lower! For the record: the piece was performed in its B minor version at a pitch of A=415cps, an approximation of one of the many pitches in use in the 18th century. I hope that clarifies things. The set containing these works was recorded in Milton, MA in May of 2014 on a 1990 harpsichord copied after the famous 1646/1756/1780 Ruckers instrument, rebuilt in the 18th century by Francois Etienne Blanchet and his student and successor, Pascal Joseph Taskin. The instrument was built (with my own participation) in the Hubbard & Broekman shop in Waltham, MA. The set from which this work and the Italian Concerto are drawn also contains the Capriccio, BWV 992, Four Duets, BWV 802-805; Sonata in D minor, BWV 964; Fantasias BWV 918, 919 & 906 and the exquisite trilogy of works for Lautenwerk, Suites in E minor and C minor (BWV 996-997) and the Prelude, Fugue & Allegro in E flat major, BWV 998. The Ouverture is played here with literally all the repeats (in the Ouverture as well as in all of the dances), enabling the listener to truly take in the sheer size and scale of Bach's conception. The first movement alone is nearly 14 minutes in length. For those who are connoisseurs of recorded harpsichord sound, this is one of the finest efforts by one of America's truly great recording engineers, Joel Gordon. The producer, as for all of my other solo Bach recordings, is the great Michigan-based fortepianist, Penelope Crawford (whose own recordings I produce in return). Peter Watchorn
One could have tuned and recorded in a=420 the approximate pitch of Leipzig during J S Bach’s time. Or a=395, different versions of arias in the 1725 Anna Magdalena Notebook exist at two different pitches. Excellent performance and tempi choices.
In an answer to a comment here the passage starting at 05:33 is singled out as extraordinary. For a reference, it concerns bars 104-107. I totally agree, I find these bars extremely beautiful and emotional. What’s more, this is the 4th or 5th time on RUclips I came across similar comments on this passage. This, for me, is the miracle of Bach, there’s something special going on here, random people single it out for the same reasons. And it is, trom a technical viewpoint nothing complex or unusual, just a descending sequence on a model of two bars…
Wunderschöne und detaillierte Interpretation dieser perfekt komponierten Ouvertüre nach französischer Art im veränderlichen Tempo mit schimmerndem Klang des technisch fehlerlosen Cembalos und mit perfekt kontrollierter Dynamik. Wahrhaft intelligenter und genialer Cembalist!
those are the "solo" episodes, specified by Bach to be played "piano"; therefore, on a two-manual harpsichord, on the upper manual, which controls only one of the three sets of strings. PW
I didn't realize that in the old days one would fill the staff with all the accidentals for the key. I wondered why there were 4 flats in the treble and 5 in the clef until I realized some are just duplicated!
The recording is of the better known version in B minor, which clashes with the score, if one has perfect pitch. I can't listen to it and follow it, for this reason, but thank you anyway.
I expected a comment like yours. Hard to believe that you have such sensitive audio/visual perceptions. I know a fair share of perfect pitch people, they never made comments like yours. As a matter of fact many could transpose piano parts while sight reading. You have heard of transposing?
@@bartjebartmans Your instinct is correct. I have perfect pitch, and I never have problems following a score when the musician is playing at 415, 425, 403, 400, 392 or any of the other historical tunings that are used. You just make a mental adjustment to be able to follow the score. No problem.
At which particular pitch standard does your perfect pitch operate? This recording was made of the B minor version, but at the approximated Baroque pitch of A=415. Therefore, you (if you are used to modern A=440cps concert pitch) would be hearing B flat minor. If you are reading the score in C minor, while listening to the piece played in B minor, at Baroque concert pitch (A=415, a reasonably common approximation of Bach's Kammerton, or chamber pitch) then you would be hearing the pitches a whole step lower than the score indicates, rather than a half-step (if you are used to the modern approximation of Baroque pitch at A=415cps). But don't despair! You are facing the same situation as Bach's continuo organist faced in Leipzig in the 1720s & 1730s. Had you been an organist playing in one of Bach's own cantata performances in Leipzig, the organ would have been pitched a whole step ABOVE "concert" pitch (A-465, a whole step above A=415). Therefore, if the cantata was notated in C minor, you would have been provided with an organ part notated in B flat minor, in order for it to sound at the same pitch as the "chamber" instruments. Or, exactly the transposition you are confronted with here. So, your "perfect" pitch would have been put to the test. Since the organist was probably often Bach himself, we can assume that he would have had "perfect" pitch. I have always had "perfect" pitch, and I have learned to adjust over the decades (a little disorienting at first when you hear fortepianos at A=430 cps, or in between modern A and modern G sharp). It's good to practice adjusting your pitch standard in any case. By the way, I'm also the performer on this recording, in case you wonder who wrote this, and what my level of knowledge and experience might be! PW
@@bartjebartmans I am a harpsichordist, and, when, in my younger years, I played the piano, I had to transpose, which, on a less interestingly tempered instrument, was possible for me to do. I have never tried to do that on the harpsichord, where, I feel, each key has too much of an individual character, and I simply 'do not believe' the notation. Conversely, I can traspose when playing the violin, which I also play. The recording of the Netherlands Bach Society of Aus der Tiefen, the cantata, is played in a minor. The parts are written in g minor originally, but I can play in a minor it by reading the part in alto clef, if the temperament is suitable. Similarly, in other instances, but, if I have to read something that is not in the key it was written, I find it too puzzling and unseemly. I suppose this is my personal limitation.
@@bartjebartmans Thank you for your remark that I may be ignorant of transposition. For your information, I was musically educated in Italy, where I learned the system called Setticlavio, which goes back to the baroque and before. I read fluently in any of the seven keys and, in trasposing, I mentally read in Soprano, Alto or Baritono clef, as needed. My comment related to the fact that I perceive an clash between the tonality of the score and the tonality of the performance. C minor is very, very, very different from B minor in any baroque tuning, but maybe my ears are perhaps too fine for your considerations. Of course, I can follow the score, but that does not elide the inherent discrepancy between what I read and what I hear. Thank you for your kindness, anyway. And there was I thinking that the litterae humaniores, within which music occupies special place, would make us kinder and more considerate.
![Bach - French Overture in B minor, BWV 831 (Schiff) [Score]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/l1YowD_00Lg/mqdefault.jpg)
Once upon a time, in the last century, these recordings were so rare as white raven. I mean, as professional recording & performance as this one you just have presented. Many people can't imagine anymore what a joy it was, founding (in a CD-store for example) such an excellent piece of music performed and recorded so perfectly. You make us glad week by week (sometimes day by day) with the very best recordings of the rarest gems of classical music performances. Thank you once again. This Ouverture is exceptionally beautiful. Thanks.
Völlig einverstanden. Danke für diese gelungene Interpretation.
❤
Just a few notes on this performance by the performer: The French Overture, BWV 831, was re-edited by Bach in 1735 from an existing work in C minor (as you see in the score here) for inclusion (with the Italian Concerto in F major, BWV 971). In order to emphasize the contrast between the two most important national instrumental forms of the day (the Italian concerto and the French ouverture), which made up Part 2 of his ClavierUebung cycle of published keyboard works, he transposed the C minor version of the Ouverture down a half-step into B minor, which lies a tritone away from the F major of the accompanying concerto, or, the greatest possible key-contrast available in the circle of fifths. Those whose ears are used to the modern pitch standard of A=440cps will be further baffled, as you will be hearing (apparently) B-flat minor. So, perhaps it's easiest to just accept that the C minor score is being heard an entire step lower! For the record: the piece was performed in its B minor version at a pitch of A=415cps, an approximation of one of the many pitches in use in the 18th century. I hope that clarifies things.
The set containing these works was recorded in Milton, MA in May of 2014 on a 1990 harpsichord copied after the famous 1646/1756/1780 Ruckers instrument, rebuilt in the 18th century by Francois Etienne Blanchet and his student and successor, Pascal Joseph Taskin. The instrument was built (with my own participation) in the Hubbard & Broekman shop in Waltham, MA. The set from which this work and the Italian Concerto are drawn also contains the Capriccio, BWV 992, Four Duets, BWV 802-805; Sonata in D minor, BWV 964; Fantasias BWV 918, 919 & 906 and the exquisite trilogy of works for Lautenwerk, Suites in E minor and C minor (BWV 996-997) and the Prelude, Fugue & Allegro in E flat major, BWV 998.
The Ouverture is played here with literally all the repeats (in the Ouverture as well as in all of the dances), enabling the listener to truly take in the sheer size and scale of Bach's conception. The first movement alone is nearly 14 minutes in length. For those who are connoisseurs of recorded harpsichord sound, this is one of the finest efforts by one of America's truly great recording engineers, Joel Gordon. The producer, as for all of my other solo Bach recordings, is the great Michigan-based fortepianist, Penelope Crawford (whose own recordings I produce in return).
Peter Watchorn
thank you so much!
Thanks Mr Watchorn. Excellent interpretation. Flawless actually. I'll look out for your other recordings
@@bag3lmonst3r72 thanks: yes, I was happy with this one. PW
Un ripasso,approfondimento validissimo grazie Signor Watchorn.
One could have tuned and recorded in a=420 the approximate pitch of Leipzig during J S Bach’s time. Or a=395, different versions of arias in the 1725 Anna Magdalena Notebook exist at two different pitches. Excellent performance and tempi choices.
just as Bach expected it to be heard. marvelous recording.
In an answer to a comment here the passage starting at 05:33 is singled out as extraordinary. For a reference, it concerns bars 104-107. I totally agree, I find these bars extremely beautiful and emotional. What’s more, this is the 4th or 5th time on RUclips I came across similar comments on this passage. This, for me, is the miracle of Bach, there’s something special going on here, random people single it out for the same reasons. And it is, trom a technical viewpoint nothing complex or unusual, just a descending sequence on a model of two bars…
In this performance,
all is full of far superior splendor amazing
Ich liebe diese Musik
Wunderschöne und detaillierte Interpretation dieser perfekt komponierten Ouvertüre nach französischer Art im veränderlichen Tempo mit schimmerndem Klang des technisch fehlerlosen Cembalos und mit perfekt kontrollierter Dynamik. Wahrhaft intelligenter und genialer Cembalist!
Monumental
Grazie.Formidabile ascolterò in seguito.
ottima esecuzione
What a gem! Thanks for uploading!
fantastic
Vielen Dank aus Japan
yes, chitz Dank af
jk or w/e
Bitte schön aus Deutschland
3:40 - 4:06 this is just so good !
5:33 - 6:10
those are the "solo" episodes, specified by Bach to be played "piano"; therefore, on a two-manual harpsichord, on the upper manual, which controls only one of the three sets of strings. PW
@@peterwatchorn411 modern pianos have the only register - the left pedal. 😭 What is the maximum number of registers in harpsichords?
I didn't realize that in the old days one would fill the staff with all the accidentals for the key. I wondered why there were 4 flats in the treble and 5 in the clef until I realized some are just duplicated!
Subscribed. I am a believer.
この自筆譜はどこで見れますか?またはどこで購入できますか?
tb, mais parait bien austère au clave cin.
apres l'audition d'Andreas Schiff au piano (apport expression , chantant..)
Questo spartito dell'ouverture francese è in do minore, perchè?
SERIA IMPORTANTE TAMBIÉN SABER QUIEN ES EL INTÉRPRETE.
ich bin Mitarbeiter von Bach-Archiv Leipzig 😊
Why the score is in C minor????
La musica clasica es esplensida se tenia que fomentar por la aministracion.
The recording is of the better known version in B minor, which clashes with the score, if one has perfect pitch. I can't listen to it and follow it, for this reason, but thank you anyway.
I expected a comment like yours. Hard to believe that you have such sensitive audio/visual perceptions. I know a fair share of perfect pitch people, they never made comments like yours. As a matter of fact many could transpose piano parts while sight reading. You have heard of transposing?
@@bartjebartmans Your instinct is correct. I have perfect pitch, and I never have problems following a score when the musician is playing at 415, 425, 403, 400, 392 or any of the other historical tunings that are used. You just make a mental adjustment to be able to follow the score. No problem.
At which particular pitch standard does your perfect pitch operate? This recording was made of the B minor version, but at the approximated Baroque pitch of A=415. Therefore, you (if you are used to modern A=440cps concert pitch) would be hearing B flat minor. If you are reading the score in C minor, while listening to the piece played in B minor, at Baroque concert pitch (A=415, a reasonably common approximation of Bach's Kammerton, or chamber pitch) then you would be hearing the pitches a whole step lower than the score indicates, rather than a half-step (if you are used to the modern approximation of Baroque pitch at A=415cps). But don't despair! You are facing the same situation as Bach's continuo organist faced in Leipzig in the 1720s & 1730s.
Had you been an organist playing in one of Bach's own cantata performances in Leipzig, the organ would have been pitched a whole step ABOVE "concert" pitch (A-465, a whole step above A=415). Therefore, if the cantata was notated in C minor, you would have been provided with an organ part notated in B flat minor, in order for it to sound at the same pitch as the "chamber" instruments. Or, exactly the transposition you are confronted with here. So, your "perfect" pitch would have been put to the test. Since the organist was probably often Bach himself, we can assume that he would have had "perfect" pitch. I have always had "perfect" pitch, and I have learned to adjust over the decades (a little disorienting at first when you hear fortepianos at A=430 cps, or in between modern A and modern G sharp). It's good to practice adjusting your pitch standard in any case. By the way, I'm also the performer on this recording, in case you wonder who wrote this, and what my level of knowledge and experience might be! PW
@@bartjebartmans I am a harpsichordist, and, when, in my younger years, I played the piano, I had to transpose, which, on a less interestingly tempered instrument, was possible for me to do. I have never tried to do that on the harpsichord, where, I feel, each key has too much of an individual character, and I simply 'do not believe' the notation. Conversely, I can traspose when playing the violin, which I also play. The recording of the Netherlands Bach Society of Aus der Tiefen, the cantata, is played in a minor. The parts are written in g minor originally, but I can play in a minor it by reading the part in alto clef, if the temperament is suitable. Similarly, in other instances, but, if I have to read something that is not in the key it was written, I find it too puzzling and unseemly. I suppose this is my personal limitation.
@@bartjebartmans Thank you for your remark that I may be ignorant of transposition. For your information, I was musically educated in Italy, where I learned the system called Setticlavio, which goes back to the baroque and before. I read fluently in any of the seven keys and, in trasposing, I mentally read in Soprano, Alto or Baritono clef, as needed. My comment related to the fact that I perceive an clash between the tonality of the score and the tonality of the performance. C minor is very, very, very different from B minor in any baroque tuning, but maybe my ears are perhaps too fine for your considerations. Of course, I can follow the score, but that does not elide the inherent discrepancy between what I read and what I hear. Thank you for your kindness, anyway. And there was I thinking that the litterae humaniores, within which music occupies special place, would make us kinder and more considerate.