Francie, I appreciated that you let Oleg do most of the talking. He's the one with the info I wanted to hear. Short to the point questions that kept the conversation moving is what some interviewers don't do. Thanks
Think back to the introduction of the home computer in 1976/1977. There were numerous brands each with their own incompatible operating systems. Software was a nightmare. Hardware was, well, hard! It took over 10 years for consumers and businesses to demand compatibility among brands (except for Apple of course) for the computer revolution to take off. Now we have 3 mainstream choices, Windows, Apple, and Android. The same will hold true for EVs. Consumer demand has spoken and NACS will be king of the hill, at least in N.A. As goes the US so will China. That means the rest of the world will likely follow.
NACS uses CCS communication standards now so you’re only 90% misinformed. But the little plug on the end is certainly nicer feeling and doesn’t have the lock on the handle. So it’s really best to think of NACS and CCS2 as basically the same thing. GBT in China builds on the ChaDeMo standard and currently flows 400 kW to 800 V cars at 600+ Amps. In other words it makes Teslas look like slow charging old tech.
Actually, Apple uses Unix, and Linux is a huge computer OS in the serious computer world … compatibility is as bad among computer OSs as it was 30-40 years ago … bad analogy
That's a fairy tale.... Apple was the standard until the IBM PC.... And Microsoft supplied the OS, which has been the main standard for decades... This is an oversimplification but we actually have more different OS on the market now, than we did back then... So no we didn't go from just having many OS's to just having one... Universal compatibility or inoperability.... It still does not exist...
Nacs does not work in Europe because they are on a standard 240v as here in North America we are on a standard 120v. It’s so important that everyone agrees on standards in the quickly developing EV world. Charn is essential in this new technology. Great job Francie, I appreciate your style of interviewing.
Tesla changed over the CCS2 as required by the EU. TESLA has superchargers with both handles to allow the older teslas which haven't been updated to use CCS handle to supercharge. 3 phase is more common and compatible cars can charge at 22 kW AC on 3 phase. Nothing to do with voltage (more issues with charging 800 volt VS 400 volt batteries) . Some (not all) supercharger sites are open to non Tesla charging. In North America newer teslas can charge over Teslas protocol or CCS. V2 sites are not compatible with any non Tesla.. V3 can be made compatible the DC pins in the CCS type handle need to be swapped to match polarity on the tesla handle.
The government chargers has been a corrupt waste of money. Standardize on NACS and move forward. Yes, CCS in EU. But not adapting will be like we had standardized on 68 and 74 octane fuel. It could work, but our entire ICE driving experience is based on WW2 octane improvements. EVs are very new. Higher voltage DC will be required. EVs need to be ready for step function changes.
@@External2737 We need dcfc along the highways but not at destinations. A 24kw nacs charger is plenty if someone just needs to charge while they are walking around shopping etc. I agree that the system of procuring chargers in the USA is flawed but that applies to everything USA. Lots of waste when you allow local people who don't understand chargers to find their own vendor cause they will install what ever vendor they find and when it breaks they don't have the money to fix it. Should have been a national rfp to drive down the price per charger and then in the contract force them to maintain it.
@@TheLobo91 I agree. However, charging while shopping is a non-issue locally. Even my daughters' hair stylist has a charger available. What is needed is more chargers at most work (mine has a surplus) and at apartment complexes. But the government just wasted money. Get them out except to pass a law that "luxury" apartments must have so many chargers available. E.g., one in garage or one per say 4 units in the lot.
@@External2737 You do realize that NACS is just CCS, but using the smaller Tesla connector which moves the locking mechanism to the car. NACS does not equal Tesla charging, only the Tesla physical connector. Many Tesla cars do not even support NACS without upgrading some of the hardware and reconfiguring software.
"corrupt"? lmao... Life is so boring for some people, without their conspiracy theory mindset.... "EVs are very new. Higher voltage DC will be required. EVs need to be ready for step function changes".? Or just create a battery swapping standard now,and you're future-proofed... Since it will always be faster and more efficient than DCFC ;)
I agree. The EU has pushed hard for standardisation, this leads to less innovation and less competition. It is nice in the beginning but later it is just a hindrance for innovations and smaller companies to make it.
@@HarrythehunHow does different parts of the world having conflicting regulations increase competition? It requires huge cost to modify new models to enable them to enter new markets and provide competition. So many models never get sold outside the region they are developed in. Conflicting regulations can be a way to increase protectionism and reduce competition. It’s more of an issue for rapidly evolving technologies like EVs than for more settled technologies.
Thankfully, in NACS became the North American standard. Something is wrong when Tesla can make everything work, for not just themselves, but also the few automakers who are on the system. Most automakers suck as software system design.
Agreed - CCS is a truly terrible standard but it's too late to fix this decision now. The suggestion that it was sabotaged by legacy ICE companies to slow the adoption of EVs is pretty plausible.
This interview features two of the most out of touch people I've ever listened to. The general public HATES the computer driven appliances you call cars. I call them all trash, and I'm correct. Shame on you for your horrendous ideas
Absolutely no reason to lock everyone in and force the collaboration. I hope you like watching prices sky rocket as it becomes the only option. Cool if companies can play nice but should not be the only way to move forward.
Went to Canada for two weeks and every Canadian national park has at least two 24kw (240v/80a) Tesla (nacs and CCS) chargers at all entrances free for everyone. The USA is so far behind. If every government destinations like national parks and state parks had 24kw it would greatly reduce range anxiety. In the USA we would say on look a free charger socialism blah blah. Canadians are so much smarter and are pushing their gov to grow affordable chargers. L2 is so much cheaper than DCFS to deploy.
240v/80a 24kW? I guess with socialism you don't have to do math ;) plus CCS in North America maxes out at 19.2kW.... A little higher for J3400, since it maxes out at 277 volts not 240... But either way, it's not going to reach 24 kW.... But it requires a 100 amp circuit, so maybe that was incorrectly multiplied by the voltage?. Canucks eh
@@nc3826 it was labelled as 24kw. In that area they had both standards so maybe the panel is on 100a but the charger only supplies 80a. I think Tesla caps at 19.2 so that would make sense. Either way it's better than not having it at all like we are doing in the USA.
@@TheLobo91 I was just pointing out that your reported specs in their entirety, didn't add up... Plus 24 kW exceeds the max AC charging rate of either standard... Why are you continuing to make conjectures about it? Since they were apparently DC Chargers? But It's impossible for me to know exactly what you got wrong without me being there... sorry i am not clairvoyant so I can't fill in the gaps.... And I think I'm done trying lol... Take care...
@@nc3826 wait let me get this right. You reply on my comment yet you get mad that I replied back on yours? LMAO I just said what I saw. I understand ohms law and the power formula just fine. Canada is just years ahead of USA when it comes to public L2 charging cause it was level 2 not dc. It was at Fundy national Park. If you want to look it up. It must have been 19.2 kw and was improperly labeled. Don't lose any sleep it's just a comment, we are all frustrated at the slow pace of ev progress.
American industries don't collaborate. Each manufacturer does their own thing until the public gets fed up and then they work together. (think cell phone charging)
Capitalism is based on self-interest..... That's why we need some degree of rules and regulations, like stop signs... But if we have too many nobody goes anywhere...
Given the terribleness of CCS, which is too late to fix, there is something that manufacturers can do to improve the charging experience: chargers should start the communications and isolation test process as soon as the plug is connected, without waiting for the payment authorisation - that way it can start delivering power ( and inform the user about any problems) as soon as the payment authorisation is complete, reducing the overall time you need to wait at the charger to ensuire it's working.
Where they misspell the word authorised, CCS works fine.... And you want electricity to start to be delivered, before payment is authorized? Then send me a car now and I'll authorize payment, after it gets here...
Francie great guest, CharIN is really important to have proper collaboration between all the players in the EV world, we need more fast and easy charging solutions for end users
The CCS1 and CCS2 are agreed standards (also Chademo and the Chinese standard) vs a proprietary standard used by one manufacturer (no matter how many superior features it has)
The reason that CCS sometimes didn't work was almost always down to the vehicle manufacturers. Not the CCS standard. Tesla had a unique advantage - they made the vehicles and they designed the standard.
Francie, I appreciated that you let Oleg do most of the talking. He's the one with the info I wanted to hear. Short to the point questions that kept the conversation moving is what some interviewers don't do. Thanks
Brilliant insights thanks for sharing 😊 also brilliantly positive but also with good level of realism
Think back to the introduction of the home computer in 1976/1977. There were numerous brands each with their own incompatible operating systems. Software was a nightmare. Hardware was, well, hard! It took over 10 years for consumers and businesses to demand compatibility among brands (except for Apple of course) for the computer revolution to take off.
Now we have 3 mainstream choices, Windows, Apple, and Android. The same will hold true for EVs. Consumer demand has spoken and NACS will be king of the hill, at least in N.A. As goes the US so will China. That means the rest of the world will likely follow.
NACS uses CCS communication standards now so you’re only 90% misinformed. But the little plug on the end is certainly nicer feeling and doesn’t have the lock on the handle. So it’s really best to think of NACS and CCS2 as basically the same thing.
GBT in China builds on the ChaDeMo standard and currently flows 400 kW to 800 V cars at 600+ Amps. In other words it makes Teslas look like slow charging old tech.
Actually, Apple uses Unix, and Linux is a huge computer OS in the serious computer world … compatibility is as bad among computer OSs as it was 30-40 years ago … bad analogy
That's a fairy tale.... Apple was the standard until the IBM PC.... And Microsoft supplied the OS, which has been the main standard for decades... This is an oversimplification but we actually have more different OS on the market now, than we did back then...
So no we didn't go from just having many OS's to just having one... Universal compatibility or inoperability.... It still does not exist...
Nacs does not work in Europe because they are on a standard 240v as here in North America we are on a standard 120v. It’s so important that everyone agrees on standards in the quickly developing EV world. Charn is essential in this new technology. Great job Francie, I appreciate your style of interviewing.
Tesla changed over the CCS2 as required by the EU. TESLA has superchargers with both handles to allow the older teslas which haven't been updated to use CCS handle to supercharge. 3 phase is more common and compatible cars can charge at 22 kW AC on 3 phase. Nothing to do with voltage (more issues with charging
800 volt VS 400 volt batteries) . Some (not all) supercharger
sites are open to non Tesla charging. In North America newer teslas can charge over Teslas protocol or CCS. V2 sites are not compatible with any non Tesla.. V3 can be made compatible the DC pins in the CCS type handle need to be swapped to match polarity on the tesla handle.
lmao...120 volt slower charging it's not a requirement...
More chargers! Use that Inflation Reduction Act money and expand more power!
The government chargers has been a corrupt waste of money.
Standardize on NACS and move forward. Yes, CCS in EU.
But not adapting will be like we had standardized on 68 and 74 octane fuel. It could work, but our entire ICE driving experience is based on WW2 octane improvements.
EVs are very new. Higher voltage DC will be required. EVs need to be ready for step function changes.
@@External2737 We need dcfc along the highways but not at destinations. A 24kw nacs charger is plenty if someone just needs to charge while they are walking around shopping etc. I agree that the system of procuring chargers in the USA is flawed but that applies to everything USA. Lots of waste when you allow local people who don't understand chargers to find their own vendor cause they will install what ever vendor they find and when it breaks they don't have the money to fix it. Should have been a national rfp to drive down the price per charger and then in the contract force them to maintain it.
@@TheLobo91 I agree. However, charging while shopping is a non-issue locally. Even my daughters' hair stylist has a charger available.
What is needed is more chargers at most work (mine has a surplus) and at apartment complexes.
But the government just wasted money. Get them out except to pass a law that "luxury" apartments must have so many chargers available. E.g., one in garage or one per say 4 units in the lot.
@@External2737 You do realize that NACS is just CCS, but using the smaller Tesla connector which moves the locking mechanism to the car. NACS does not equal Tesla charging, only the Tesla physical connector. Many Tesla cars do not even support NACS without upgrading some of the hardware and reconfiguring software.
"corrupt"? lmao... Life is so boring for some people, without their conspiracy theory mindset....
"EVs are very new. Higher voltage DC will be required. EVs need to be ready for step function changes".? Or just create a battery swapping standard now,and you're future-proofed... Since it will always be faster and more efficient than DCFC ;)
Collaboration is good, but CCS is awful and they are biased towards CCS only
We have to remember that CCS has the same communication as NACS, ISO 15118, which CharIN is actively working with.
I agree. The EU has pushed hard for standardisation, this leads to less innovation and less competition. It is nice in the beginning but later it is just a hindrance for innovations and smaller companies to make it.
@@HarrythehunHow does different parts of the world having conflicting regulations increase competition?
It requires huge cost to modify new models to enable them to enter new markets and provide competition. So many models never get sold outside the region they are developed in. Conflicting regulations can be a way to increase protectionism and reduce competition. It’s more of an issue for rapidly evolving technologies like EVs than for more settled technologies.
Thankfully, in NACS became the North American standard. Something is wrong when Tesla can make everything work, for not just themselves, but also the few automakers who are on the system.
Most automakers suck as software system design.
Agreed - CCS is a truly terrible standard but it's too late to fix this decision now.
The suggestion that it was sabotaged by legacy ICE companies to slow the adoption of EVs is pretty plausible.
This interview features two of the most out of touch people I've ever listened to. The general public HATES the computer driven appliances you call cars. I call them all trash, and I'm correct. Shame on you for your horrendous ideas
Cars have been computer driven since 1998. That specific complaint is not just an EV thing.
Stop. Collaborate, and listen.
Francie's back with a brand new invention
Absolutely no reason to lock everyone in and force the collaboration. I hope you like watching prices sky rocket as it becomes the only option. Cool if companies can play nice but should not be the only way to move forward.
…Francie is back with a brand new edition…
...ICE is back with a brand new invention...
Something grabs a hold of me tightly
Title: “If the EV market won’t collaborate then we can’t compete with the chairman of CharIN North America”
Why do we want to compete with him?
lol, I hope you mean it was oddly worded? Since I had that thought too
Went to Canada for two weeks and every Canadian national park has at least two 24kw (240v/80a) Tesla (nacs and CCS) chargers at all entrances free for everyone. The USA is so far behind. If every government destinations like national parks and state parks had 24kw it would greatly reduce range anxiety. In the USA we would say on look a free charger socialism blah blah. Canadians are so much smarter and are pushing their gov to grow affordable chargers. L2 is so much cheaper than DCFS to deploy.
I think you mean j1772 CCS is DC fast charging 😂
240v/80a 24kW? I guess with socialism you don't have to do math ;)
plus CCS in North America maxes out at 19.2kW.... A little higher for J3400, since it maxes out at 277 volts not 240... But either way, it's not going to reach 24 kW....
But it requires a 100 amp circuit, so maybe that was incorrectly multiplied by the voltage?. Canucks eh
@@nc3826 it was labelled as 24kw. In that area they had both standards so maybe the panel is on 100a but the charger only supplies 80a. I think Tesla caps at 19.2 so that would make sense. Either way it's better than not having it at all like we are doing in the USA.
@@TheLobo91 I was just pointing out that your reported specs in their entirety, didn't add up...
Plus 24 kW exceeds the max AC charging rate of either standard... Why are you continuing to make conjectures about it?
Since they were apparently DC Chargers?
But It's impossible for me to know exactly what you got wrong without me being there... sorry i am not clairvoyant so I can't fill in the gaps.... And I think I'm done trying lol... Take care...
@@nc3826 wait let me get this right. You reply on my comment yet you get mad that I replied back on yours? LMAO I just said what I saw. I understand ohms law and the power formula just fine. Canada is just years ahead of USA when it comes to public L2 charging cause it was level 2 not dc. It was at Fundy national Park. If you want to look it up. It must have been 19.2 kw and was improperly labeled. Don't lose any sleep it's just a comment, we are all frustrated at the slow pace of ev progress.
American industries don't collaborate. Each manufacturer does their own thing until the public gets fed up and then they work together. (think cell phone charging)
Capitalism is based on self-interest..... That's why we need some degree of rules and regulations, like stop signs... But if we have too many nobody goes anywhere...
Given the terribleness of CCS, which is too late to fix, there is something that manufacturers can do to improve the charging experience: chargers should start the communications and isolation test process as soon as the plug is connected, without waiting for the payment authorisation - that way it can start delivering power ( and inform the user about any problems) as soon as the payment authorisation is complete, reducing the overall time you need to wait at the charger to ensuire it's working.
looool CCS is literally widely used around the world and is very carefree.
Where they misspell the word authorised, CCS works fine....
And you want electricity to start to be delivered, before payment is authorized? Then send me a car now and I'll authorize payment, after it gets here...
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth....
Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste .. 🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤ 🕊
Between Tom and Kyle they have more EVs and more EVSEs than charin had at their last event.
Francie great guest, CharIN is really important to have proper collaboration between all the players in the EV world, we need more fast and easy charging solutions for end users
Very interesting discussion from your guest 🇨🇦
If CCS had been designed properly in the first place, plug-fests would be unnecessary - everything would just work.
looool CCS is literally widely used around the world and is very carefree.
The CCS1 and CCS2 are agreed standards (also Chademo and the Chinese standard) vs a proprietary standard used by one manufacturer (no matter how many superior features it has)
The reason that CCS sometimes didn't work was almost always down to the vehicle manufacturers. Not the CCS standard. Tesla had a unique advantage - they made the vehicles and they designed the standard.
cuz most people want simple solutions, so it's easy to blame CCS.... who don't understand how it works.