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- Опубликовано: 8 окт 2019
- #275 "adamant to get this thing airborne no matter what" - Coffee With Kenny
Schweizer Helicopter Crash @ A.I.M.- May 2008 • Schweizer Helicopter M...
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#275 "adamant to get this thing airborne no matter what" - Coffee With Kenny
As strange as it sounds, it was almost as if it was their intention to destroy the helicopter, and they were simply there to record it and see what happened as it died. But the lack of any safety concern is just mind-boggling.
Thanks for the feedback!
My thoughts exactly
Have to disagree with doing things "different" because there's a camera.
If I'm doing ANYTHING different because there's a camera, or the FAA or NRC are watching me, then I'm not doing things right to begin with.
Rs Rt thanks for commenting
PIC is from the right seat in a 269A, If you have one blade damper out and a oleo out it will go into ground resonance, it is not permissible to put solid rods in place of the oleo's. I have never swept the blades to phase the dampers ( they have markings on them for phasing) I could go on and on with what they did wrong!
HawkracingLLC yep!
I remember seeing this one a couple years back, when I first became hooked on aviation. As painful to watch now as it was then! 😲
My dad told me a story of when he was on base when he was in the Navy as a young man, and nearly walked straight into a spinning blade on a Douglas AD Skyraider. Someone grabbed him by the shoulder and saved his life - he'd have gone right in! 😳 Probably why I have had situational awareness engrained in me since my youth.
Smitty Smithsonite awesome Smith thanks for sharing!
Kenny, if you don't keep pointing out safety, who will? Helicopters are extremely wonderful things but can be unforgivable IF NOT RESPECTED, with spinning blades with tremendous energy and inertia. As we say in law enforcement, WHEN IN DOUBT, THROW IT OUT. I guess in helicopters, maybe something similar but more like "a SLIVER of a concern, shut it down." I wonder how many people would have even let their kids to go near that destroyed aircraft. When I saw this a few years ago, it was clearly ground resonance, but it always struck me that their altered skids played a big role. Just a thought cause there is much you unpacked here. #LandAndLive. Keep up the great work bro.
CHAOS45 thank you very much!
Smoke and oil... Nobody thought to yell “SHUT IT DOWN”... SKOS!!!
Yep!
It is not acceptable to replace the shocks struts with solid bars. This helicopter being operated by people know nothing about helicopter maintenance at Tactical college and luckily nobody got hurt. The dampers we’re not functioning properly and there is nothing prevent ground residence From going into the rotor system The lead lag dampers were not functional. All it needed was a small disturbance and wham !!!!!!!!
Loup City Air Service thanks for sharing!
Great analysis on the resonance factor on this airframe! Thank you!
They were removed as the helicopter was donated as a training aid to teach students rigging. There are a lot of other parts missing....
Great vid as always Kenny!
This video is as much of a study in human behavior as well as an aircraft accident. A whole bunch of humans saw the first signs of it going downhill (oil leak) and did nothing. Saw it go further downhill (increasing oil leak) and did nothing. Saw it go even further south (now a big oil puddle) and did nothing. Saw it go even FURTHER south (oil puddle + smoke) and did nothing.......
I could go on and on but the most intriguing question is WHY no one made the cut-throat gesture to the pilot "Kill it kill it!". Just stood there and watched the dominos fall.
Thank you!
My two rotor/prop danger stories relate to gyrocopters, which I used to fly. The first time I ever saw one, a bystander was explaining how they work to his young son and pointed to the prop at the back. Unfortunately for him, the engine was running and he promptly lost his index finger. Well, we all had to do what we call an emu walk in OZ, looking for the damn thing. Someone found it and he went off to hospital to have it successfully reattached. The other was at a different field, where a guy in front of me got biffed by a slow freewheeling rotor blade to the side of his head. It was enough to badly cut his head and knock him out. Watching this video and the carelessness around moving blades sent a chill up my spine.
Thanks for commenting.
I fly out of the airport that this incident happened at. I used to fly the 269, I have personally seen the helicopter that's in this video up close. That being said not only would I as a helicopter pilot not have got into this machine, until this incident happened I didn't know the thing would even run.
Thanks for sharing!
I know absolutely 0 about helicopters and flying, but if my LAWN MOWER was spitting oil and smoking I would immediately shut it down 🤣
Thanks for commenting.
I am so confused as to why no one pointed out the smoke and the puddle of oil, it just seems so easy to do........
James Irby exactly right!
James Irby exactly!
Short answer: nobody was in charge so everybody waited for somebody to take the lead.
you understood that perfectly!!!
Thanks for commenting.
I find these jokers concerning, it's just insane. It subjects everyone to a helicopter clown-show that could end up deadly. And it's not an attraction, it's an air vessel that can kill people. I am SO glad there are people like you that expose some of this jackassery. May we all learn from it and steer clear of the clowns. Keep this videos coming, very good production as well. Bravo.
Thanks for commenting
Saw this few years back and it still pains me to watch and strain my thoughts as to why they made just about every decision they made....
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@Gunnar Bryce GTFO spamming
Not that it matters, but since they were intending on flying, they forgot the entire air filter housing underneath the cabin. And the wing that sits on top of the cabin, before the main rotor shaft. But that solid weld to get rid of strut ,Was key to this I think. Certainly helped if any thing.lol
joshua logan thanks for sharing!
They were never going to fly that thing. That's obvious. This is a maintenance school messing around.
Thanks for the feedback!
I agree. Probably not an airworthy aircraft
I almost died when I realized he’s wearing a Pantera shirt lol
Thanks for the feedback!
Excellent critique on maintenance and safety issues, including those posting below. It's less about pointing fingers and more about learning from the mistakes of others. The day you think you've got it all down pat is the day you should ground yourself.
Thank you for posting this analysis.
Thank you George!
I recently retired from 34 years with an electric utility following 14 years as an avionics tech in General Aviation. Whenever a job was to be done that included hazards of any sort, the entire team assembled for a Pre-Job Briefing. In the PJB we went over the assignments for each person, their overall job responsibilities, and at each step what each person was to be doing. In each step, the entire team identified all the foreseeable hazards (not many hazards are unforeseeable) and how the hazards would be managed. If a hazard was beyond our ability to manage it the job could not be done. If at any step unforeseen things happened the job was stopped down and the situation reviewed.
In this event, I see no sign of a foreman or safety man. The presence of the fire extinguishers told us there was an awareness that there was a recognized fire hazard but there seemed to be nobody in particular responsible for operating the extinguishers.
The rotor was engaged before it was known whether the engine was operating properly. The rotor(s) represented serious hazards to anybody approaching the craft to extinguish a fire. It would have made a lot of sense to run the engine while the firemen stood by, let it warm to operating temperature, and shut it down for a go/no-go inspection. Another assembly of the team to ask about concerns or observations and emphasize nobody is to approach with the rotors turning unless there is an emergency that requires their presence (that would only be the firemen, who should not be needed because of the preceding steps), and the engine could be fired up and the rotors engaged.
The unexpected vibration was cause to shut the whole thing down and figure out what was going on.
It is clear enough that nobody present was concerned about safety; everybody went with the flow. It is lucky the copter was destroyed before it got into the air because it would certainly have ended in tragedy. The copter was patently unairworthy as demonstrated by it destroying itself on the ground.
Thanks for commenting.
It is comforting to know that unairworthy helicopters will destroy themselves before getting airborne.
Kenny, I've seen this video several times and have reviewed it w/my CFI's on occasion as well. The main comment of "its going to fly today no matter what" is the beginning of the end for this chopper. The swiss cheese holes are lining up as you spoke. This was nothing but
impatience. Quick review of it as a Schweizer operator: And as you noted in the video, you are right on target.
1. PIC on an A model is on the right seat. He's in the left seat.
2. You don't grab the blades to check for lead and lag. the Dampers will be over extended by the movement laterally and you'll exceed the limits of the dampers. Maybe not right away, but but eventually. This will lead to potential damper failure in flight. This I've seen happen. Not pretty. Destroyed the chopper. Ground Resonance in the air basically because the damper failed in hover.
3. Cannot fly a Schweizer w/o the Oleo dampers. Dampers are the primary component to help prevent Ground resonance. w/o them the helo will not lift off correctly just as it did.
4. If you're going to lift off a helo, please buckle in! No seatbelt or shoulder harness. Watch how he gets tossed around in the video as it spins left.
5. Smoke and oil all over. Not even going to comment on that.
I'll stop there. This was pure and simple impatience to get the helo flying. The fact that they were all hiding behind boxes should also be a bit of a red flag.
Please folks, don't rush a Maintenance flight. there is always tomorrow. This one always frustrates me because it was preventable right from the start.
Fly safe folks.
Ron Baier
Chief Pilot
Canyon State Aero
Thank you for sharing Ron!
Ron Baier This helicopter was donated to the college (if you call it that) to be used as a training aid for rigging. I don’t believe the college every really used it, but the facilities maintenance personnel did weld in some bracing as it did not sit right. This is acceptable as it as just a training aid for the rotor systems. From what I have been told a few people decided to pull the thing out of the corner and start repairing it as it was missing lots of parts. One thing led to another and then this happened.
Was cause by ground resonance from ot having the absorbtion strut on the main landing gear skids in place.
most likely
This is just weird all the way around. The fire extinguishers, the unprofessional actions of the ground crew. Everyone running for cover in the beginning. It seems like the expected this to happen, or it was on purpose.
Exactly!
Nice 👍talk sir
Thanks for commenting.
Being a helicopter mech tech for the past 20 years, there is no reason that should have got to that stage! As soon as the smoke appeared it should have been shut down and investigated! Bad maintenance practices. I personnally would not want to work there, let alone put my aircraft in for servicing!
Thanks for sharing.
Is this the one where a guy says OK Ride is over. I guess they had a flashback to last years State Fair.
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This was at LZU where I was based for 20yrd. The school has a bunch of idiots attending. I'm sincerely worried about the future of avaition with the people I saw in that school
Thank you for commenting.
NO idea why they replaced the factory shocks with solid struts.Totally not okay.No wonder it wrecked.My first thought with that vibration happening..'something's not right,shut er down'.Before it got to resonating.
Yeah lots of strange stuff going on in that video!
@@HelicopterGround I flew left seat with instructor years back...Hughes 300(s).NEVER did we have a vibration like that just running up.If we had,he wouldn't have ever allowed it to progress to that.THAT helicopter was a rebuild.NOBODY replaces factory oleo's.Probably bought from someone who crashed it.Whoever advised him to install solid struts hopefully stopped advising!
Crew change in the gulf fly overhead of my house by helicopter every morning just b4 daylight. What bothers me is their need to stay on schedule. That's a practice that will eventually not end well.
Thanks for sharing!
Did they do this on purpose to prove a point? Seems kind of odd to have extinguishers and no struts and everything. This is just a total mess. I do not allow my semi truck to get bad. Maybe dirty but mechanically i pass all inspections and stay on top of it all. Thanks for the vids as i am thinking highly of getting into this.
Awesome Eric thank you!
Knowing just enough to be dangerous? Oleo struts? I don’t need no stinking oleo struts. Uh, yeah....you do. Manufacturers know if a craft needs it or not. Omit at your own doom. Perhaps the dance of destruction could have been avoided if the pilot had kept the weight on the ground or flew, but not a gradual pull on the the collective. Fly or land, not in between. The shake was probably aggravated by a tracking problem. Whats totally bewildering is why no one gave the pilot the cut sign when all saw the smoke and oil.
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Pantera oh yeah!
Luiz Fernando hell yeah!
Vibration on startup the blades are not balanced the prop axle gives shimmy
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I agree with you Kenny. I won’t even move that rig with oil running out. Hard to think
Why they would. Ludicrous waist of a great training ride
Thank you for commenting.
Again proving you can't fix stupid... but you can have an insurance adjuster total it...
Thanks for commenting Dwight!
That has to be one of the ropiest looking helicopters I've ever seen.
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Nice video
Thank you for commenting.
I loved helicopters as a kid it’s nice to see people spend information to everyone I enjoy flying helicopters
They noticed it was dripping oil and smoking when the helo turned up. No one decided to tell the pilot to shut down. They are all at fault.
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm not a pilot, simply a fan of aircraft and skilled pilots, so this question is not meant to sound stupid. Was that aircraft actually destroyed, or would it have been deemed airworthy again, after repairs for engine AND repairs suffered to the craft from this incident, had been made??
It was destroyed even before it was destroyed.
They were playing "helicopter roulette" and this guy got the bullet
Exactly!
It balanced itself out
Thanks for commenting.
A phone in every pocket,...yep. Who'd of thought "we" would become Big Brother!? 😶
Joseph yep!
Joseph you said a mouthful there, bro
Wow
Thanks for commenting
Did anyone notice the PIC wasn't belted in?
Not surprising right!
PIC=Person in Control?
@@staomruel Pilot In Command
I crack up and laugh every time I see this video. The world is way too full of stupid folks.
Thanks for commenting
I am just sorry it took so long to find your videos. Let's learn from others "mistakes"
Thanks Bruce!
OK, so I have to ask, was that aircraft's air worthiness logs even up to date??? To those wondering, air worthiness inspection logs are similar to getting your car inspected in order to register it... well, the same goes with aircraft, they must got through annual air worthiness inspection before they can even move onto the tarmac...
Now this next point is slightly off topic, but at the same time, not... in NASCAR, if a stockcar as much as shows even a hint of smoke from under the bonnet, or the exhaust, or if there is even as much as a SINGLE drop of fluid on the ground, the car is shut down, the engine torn down, and inspected until the problem is resolved... then the engine is reassembled, and the car inspected again, then, if there is no smoke or fluid leakage, the car is cleared to race... yet you see here, the helicopter is blowing LOTS of smoke, and a puddle of oil on the ground the size of Lake Michigan, and no one called for a shutdown...
And then the person in command of the helicopter wasn't even properly restrained in... REALLY???
Now, I understand that this was some sort of college, and this helicopter was donated? Why the hell would they ever allow inexperienced, unlicensed persons to even operate such a piece of equipment... it us dangerous, and could have had fatal consequences... NONE of this incident nakes sense to me...
They're lucky the helicopter didn't lean and cause a rotor strike, especially with the unrestrained "pilot"... that would have been a disaster...
Well, I guess Albert Einstein said it best: "the only thing truly infinite is human stupidity"... and that truly showed here...
Thanks for commenting!
@@HelicopterGround not a problem...
Don’t ever feel bad about doing this stuff. It’s absurd. You need to keep doing this. Please. Very serious stuff here. You’re right on.
Thank you!
With too much nitrogen in the strut or the opposite a flat strut it acts like a solid hard contact . This will set up a bad resonance at touch down or lift off! A real ground resonance and destruction is a eye blink in a 300! It will also act like a jack ass if your skid shoes are sticky and cut the concrete ! Slippery skid shoes (smooth) are best but are not as durable!
Thanks for commenting
When I want a good laugh I watch this video. They need to play wacky Saks music. The embarrassment level is off the chart! Too funny.
Hahah. Glad you like it.
If the Three Stooges had a helicopter service, this would be it! I start laughing when nobody says anything about the oil leaking . The icing on the cake is When it shakes itself to pieces in 5seconds and now it's junk!
It must be a great feeling to Piss away 100's of thousands of dollars, without caring.
Thanks for the feedback!
6:32 mark... Do helicopters of this type have no seatbelt restraint to keep the pilot in the seat? Ummmm... No Thank You!!!
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Absolute horror show. If you added all the IQ’s of those present you probably wouldn’t get a person that could find their way out of a paper bag.
Yeah, what were they thinking!
A WET paper bag at that...
Way too close
My as would be running
Thank you for commenting.
I have weed eaters in better shape than that thing.
Yeah it was a mess!
A whole lot of stupid going on in that video. If no one there yelled at the pilot he was leaking...that pilot needs to get different people to ground crew next time. Whole lot of stupid going on in that video...
Thanks for commenting.
Buncha fuckin shmoes! Must be in Colorado with all the stoner mechanics.
I bet what happened was the kid with the big black gothic pants and long hair got every one high off Mary-jo-wanna right before the accident...
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40 years flying helicopters and this machine has to have the struts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can pick up the machine in Ground Resonance but this happened so fast!!!! The first clue people are hiding !!!
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