Happy Endings Suck, Why Ghibli Endings Are Better
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- If you've ever wondered why Studio Ghibli films feel so different than anything Hollywood makes, then the reason is a little known story structure called Kishotenketsu. Here's what's going on.
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you forgot the lack of "conflict" or a "villain" is also what makes ghibli movies so relatable...
The biggest conflict people nowdays have is paying the bills on time and the closest thing to a "villain" is probably their landlord.
The "world" around you will change whether we like it or not.
this is relatable because its true...
In comparison we will probably never overthrow an evil empire as the hero who defeats the big bad guy ...we all wish in some way we could but we know it will never happen
However
Meeting a mysterious "person"
Befriending your neighbor
or
Getting out of a contract
are things most people will likely do in some way at some point in their lives...
Spirited away has conflict. Conflict isn't always battle. In Spirited Away the conflicts are interpersonal and internal in nature. None are outright good verse evil and all contribute to the main character's growth arc.
Great interpretation of why these movies are so different and so great.
Another aspect of the Ghibli movies that I like is something you hinted at with Spirited Away, by commenting at the leaves and dust and "this wasn't just a dream". In the Ghibli movies, it isn't just a dream, it is real and parents rarely dismiss kids and their experiences. I love how in Totoro, May gets upset by insisting that she DID see a Totoro, and the father said that she is very lucky, and then takes the girls to the tree to pay their respects. He validates her experience, where as almost all "western" movies will have the parents create "conflict" by refusing to believe the child, and telling them to "grow up" or something like that... and the child has to "prove them wrong". The magical world and the spirits are real, and this is never a matter to be debated.
A big jet just flew over my house and it was so low :O
@@theothertonydutch What type of jet?
With Ghibli you feel that you see these characters for but a brief moment in their lives. When the credits roll they do other things, they have other days and adventures. With Hollywood you feel like it’s a complete story.
Yes, true for so many Ghibli movies. My favorite for this type of ending is Only Yesterday, when the main character makes a big decision. Not before, but during the end credits.
So many "stories" have no real beginning and no real ending. Things - happen.
Well said... That does seem to be the case doesn't it?
“起承轉合” is a story structure we learn in high school in Taiwan. I don’t think it’s that much different, it just has a larger span of explanation.
You’ve done most of the explanation, I would think that 轉 (change) would more likely be “the false victory” if you put it in the hero’s journey.
I think the East Asian four act structure actually still works for western stories. 合(I like to translate it to “combine”, since it basically combines everything the story comes to), is basically “the hero goes back to a comfortable place but changed”.
I would think story structure isn’t the main cause of difference between western and eastern stories, but the perspective using each structure could be an influence. Conflict isn’t absence in 起承轉合, it’s just different.
I agree. I think 起承転結 (Japanese)/Ki-syou-ten-ketsu has nothing to do with the particular feelings we feel for Ghibli's works. It is just a way of story's construction.
41 years as an American resident in Japan, and former college writing and public speaking teacher / biology lab director here ... and I fully agree with your analysis. I will later add in comments my own experience in teaching freshman exposition, scientific writing, and speech writing. Though all three are different academic domains and have different conventions, an effective use of those conventions depends on understanding the underlying psychology that both Kishotenketsu and Aristotelian derived structure have in common.
After a quick google search, I think Kishōtenketsu is indeed, basically the same thing as 起承轉合. Kishōtenketsu is the Japanese reading of the characters 起承轉結. More info. at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kish%C5%8Dtenketsu
Yeaa
This definitely adds a piece to the puzzle of why these stories feel so important, and I look forward to seeking out more stories that use this structure. For me, the endings also include a really important theme, in many Ghibli films: we can go on magical and fantastical adventures, we can daydream and get infatuated and see the world, but at the end of the day, we have to go home and build our real lives. We have to build our relationships slowly and carefully, and build our sense of home where it belongs. We don't get to escape permanently.
Finally the copyright battle is over. Great video!
Let’s gooooooo
👏
I think, in a way, Kishotenketsu does resemble 3 act structure, and DOES have conflict at the forefront. But it doesn’t do it the same way that a Hollywood movie does.
All 3 act structure stories are basically 4 acts, since act 2 is the same length as acts 1 and 3 combined, and act 2 divides at a midpoint, so you can still map it as 4 parts.
Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems that the internal conflict is the central conflict of the whole story, rather than a means to resolving a greater external conflict. The introduction of the external conflict is just an extra big test to solve what problem was set up in the beginning, or whatever showdown the story built up to at the end.
And I feel like Chihiro’s story DOES resolve neatly at the end. The people and spirits working at the bath house aren’t the main conflict. Saving her parents was her goal. She did set it aside at times, but it taught her something. Sometimes that happens in real life. She overcomes her fear, pride, and impatience through everything that happens, which prepares her for Yubaba’s final test. She leaves the spirit world prepared to face the new ordinary world she was heading toward in the beginning of the story.
But ending a movie open-ended isn’t bad or unsatisfying. But I also wouldn’t describe the ending of Arietty to be open ended. Arietty and Sho’s relationship was the focus, not the fate of the borrowers and human’s relationship.
I could be wrong or maybe I’m just seeing this through my own western worldview, but to me it makes sense.
That was a superb explanation. I've grappled myself with the felt need of having to tell a different kind of story than the hero's journey in the past; thanks so much for making it this clear that a different way to tell a story exists and also works so beautifully.
"Great. Now I want to see a Star Wars movie in the Kishotenketsun style just so it can escape the good vs evil narrative."
Great video, Soak man! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Great video, I wasn't aware of Kishotenketsu, loved how you compared it to the 3 act structure.
I'd say there's some part of cinematography that Ghibli does as well that invites you into its worlds in a more laid back way. Sure there are some cool action scenes, but there are lots of slow, lingering shots that just capture the mood of a moment, and give each place or object space to breathe that really resonates with the overall story structure.
Melancholy endings? They're great in the number they already exist, if we replaced every happy ending with the ghibli-type ending you'd get sick of them in record time.
I think this provides a more realistic model for story-telling. The goal is to find something out about the world and use it to make some important contribution or contribute positively by ajusting one's behavior and mindset. The same thing exists in traditional hero journey structure, but we're encouraged to see it and structure it as storytellers as how the PROBLEM OR TRAP was escaped or rectified.
This encourages writers to go to extremes of good and evil and be overambitious by defining problems that are ultimate and solutions that are ultimate, and this good to bad to good pogression can feel like didactic morlism and easily lacks believability. One can certainly have probles, lessons, rewarded victories and so on in the other structure, but the emfasis is on describing a world, changing it, decribing it again and so on, until a suitable point is reached at which our understanding has been meaningfully expanded about central things that continue to matter. Then the story can stop, not because things have reach ultimate triumph or tragedy or all has been solved or revealed, but because whichever people we focus on have remade their world sufficiently that whatever story follows will be a suficiently difforent discovery to constitute a new story about new kinds of discovery. It's comforting to focus on change and learning, rather than mastry, particularly in a world where problemsare bigger than we are. When we write or read a world more focused on making things work or not making thing not work, it's much easier to forget that the main reason for desciption is to move through useful understandings that an audience can relate to - that no matter how well-engineered your world, it will feel ungrounded and useless if it's a journey wher we can't feel the texture ofthe changing ground and ajust to it with each step. The style encourages writers to start small when they build their worlds and explore ambiguous and normal things.
You summarized the comparison between the two so well!
I love this take on storytelling for all the reasons you mentioned, they feel not only a lot more tangible but also far more grounded.
Things in life change, they change a lot, they can change in a year as quickly as they change in a day, and life always throws surprises and change into your life you have to adjust to.
A lot of the time it’s small things, a cancelled delivery, a surprise dish-cleaning mess, someone forgetting to do something, it’s all a surprise and a change, and we build our lives largely off of these small things.
Ghibli Films don’t just feel cozy because of their beauty but also because of how true to life they make their events, how they show the importance of small things and how we use them to approach bigger things.
I agree with everything you mentioned in this comment!
15:23 what you left out was that after youbaba Said “zen you did great” she Said “you made me soo much moneeeeeeeyyyyyy!”😂a nd she aid it very exited-y too, buncing up and Down With exitement and joy!
13:12 I am so glad I am watching this video. I have never understood this movie entirely. I was so scared by the individual characters and haven't watched the movie in so long.
Fantastic video SVB. I've always had a hard time putting my finger on why Japanese anime movies always feel so different to me than Hollywood stuff. I always assumed it was the fact that they will take such a different view of things and tell stories that would have no chance of making it in an American movie.
I am not sure if you have seen the movie The Garden of Words but I would highly recommend that movie. When the movie ended I very much was like, oh I do not know how to feel, I feel very... I have no good word to describe it. But it was directed by Makoto Shinkai and was his last director credit before he exploded in anime popularity with Your Name, Weathering with You, and Suzume.
I really liked this movie and the score was great. It had some weird foot fetish vibes though. Nothing agregious but still a bit weird. Maybe that's just the cynical side of me that sees it that way as there is a premise for it. I just can't think of why that out of all the things. It uses shoes as a metaphor for life. I suppose upon writing this I could see it as a technical challenge. Animators have always had trouble with feet and hands and they're exceptionally well drawn in this film.
Also the water/rain animations are probably the best I've ever seen.
It definitely has the lack of resolution common to the genre though.
The Secret Life of Arrietty was adapted from a British children's novel called The Borrowers, which also has a 1997 British movie adaptation. It'd be interesting to compare the plots of the two adaptations and the original to see how these different approaches to storytelling changed the story (checking the Wikipedia synopses of the book and the movie since I've never read the book and watched the movie way too long ago to remember much, it seems like there's a very solid basis for comparison, because although the Ghibli film seems to be pretty close to the book some of the ways it differs really seem to relate to the different act structure).
One detail at the end of Spirited away I missed as a child, but notice every time now: Chihiro wears the hairband that Zeniba made for her.
Imo it's a symbol that chihiros expereinces were real and that change shows in usualy unnoticed, small everyday things (like a hairband).
Svb, I'm glad you are back with more of these and some of my favorite series of films. I need to see The Boy and The Heron. P.S I had an idea, could you do a video of Tears of The Kingdom and Breath of The Wild being inspired by Ghibli films and turning Hyrule into the video game version of a Ghibli film?
I just realized that I do the Japanese four-act structure unconsciously. I thought back to a short story I recently wrote, which has four scenes. The first introduces the character and shows an obsession she has. The second shows her actively reinforcing this obsession and provides details on her childhood trauma that led to this obsession. The third is an important photoshoot she must take part in that triggers her insecurity and causes her to break down. The fourth is a scene of self-harm in which she must be saved by paramedics.
Set-up, additional info, change, resolution.
It’s a crime you don’t have more subs! I love how you break down the story structures and tie it into multiple examples in a concise way. I’ve been wanting my stories to feel more authentic like Studio Ghibli films, and this video helped me a lot 😊
Ghibli's just better than most films in general, period 😊
came from the group up podcast!! this video is so well made and super interesting. it def gave me inspiration for my own stories and characters, so thank you! looking forward to future vids
I always loved this nature of storytelling, I remember as a kid watching Mononoke for the first time and I was gushing to everyone how I loved how though it was a war, there were no bad guys, only different POV. It was so different to what I was used to.
No bad guys? clearly the humans were bad. Destruction of the forest, and seeking self prophecy for their own delusions. What I did like was how real it was that there was no happy ending. Nor did the sides forgive one another.
Thank you for introducing me to this structure. I do want to point out better parallels for you to compare to as I think you are wrong about what the Hollywood structure version would be.
For Spirited Away I'd probably compare to Wizard of Oz. There are definitely good and bad characters with the Wizard being the only morally gray. Are you unaware of several "The Borrowers" films since the 70s? It's based on a book, and the borrowers always remain a secret to a special few.
There is a lot of conflict in Spirited Away and many Ghibli films, but there is also enjoyment and wonder at the new worlds they find.
Not so much in Kiki's Delivery Service, and I have to admit I did find that film the slowest. I know it is deeply loved.
Very well presented! This is the same story line that I enjoyed so much in the early Dr.Who series with Tom Baker. It made it refreshing to not have just the good guys vs the bad guys but to also have "the other guys". It made for a much more interesting dynamic and a more "human" resolution.
Dang. I've never thought this much about the way that these stories have been told but you have truly opened my eyes, and thank you for keeping it simple with that four-panel example.
Great explanation of the differences between the approach taken in most Hollywood blockbusters and the East Asian storytelling traditions Ghibli relies upon. I do want to point out though that stories more about internal change and growth *absolutely* exist in large numbers in Western storytelling traditions and have for a long, long time--it's primarily mainstream big-budget Hollywood films that have hewn so closely to the Hero's Journey and a very specific kind of three-act structure. There are even many Hollywood films (just not usually the summer tentpoles) that "break the rules", so to speak. You can look back at novels like Jane Eyre (1847) and see that stories about personal growth and change have deep roots in our traditions, too.
Hi !
Discovering your channel with this video and it made so much sens to me, thank you so much !
First it made me wonder about story structures and why we have so few, then it helped me go through a major change in a DnD game I'm planning as a DM (I'm getting rid of the BBEG ^^) and third it made me reconsider my conflict-driven way of seeing my life. Now I want to understand more and change less. Or at least make more friends and take more time organizing for the changes we need.
Have a wonderful day ! :)
kishotenkestu tends to tell stories about people. People are relatable. The three act method tells stories about heroes. Heroes arent always relatable. Thats why Ghibli films feel so much more personal.
Recently I saw Spirited Away for the first time, I saw it in theaters. Love it and I smile whenever the Radish Spirit is on screen. 😊
wow, I accidentally did this structure for a story I'm writing and I couldn't figure out why it wasn't fitting into the 3 act structure.
I think it's strange you don't say that spirited away does have the three act structure and the central conflict
Main hero loses her parents and is actively trying to get them back.
It is not a violent conflict, but it is a conflict
I agree with this so much, but I know there are people who will never agree because after growing up a certain way, they prefer black and white, good vs. evil, happily ever after, romace kind of story. Especially since that's what Disney strives on, and people keep demanding that from Disney every time Disney even tries to do something realistic and relatable. Because when they do, people hate it and demand the old stuff, even though for years people were complaining that they hated the old stuff and wanted something new and when they got it they suddenly hated. But I guess Disney just can't win, or maybe they don't know how to be realistic and likable at the same time. That's where Ghibli comes in. So maybe these kinds of people wouldn't be able to handle Ghibli, even if it does have what everyone needs, and I've seen them. But one thing for sure, it's probably better to start out with black and white and then merge into realism to really see everything in full color. Thank you Ghibli.
Kishotenketsu seems more realistic of telling a story rather than the normal three act heros journey. Good, gray, and bad people in real life is complicated, also conflict itself is complicated and at the end of the day you're unsure of what think of. It's probably why I like Ghibli films and films with bittersweet endings, they seem more tangible, that they could happened to you (the viewer), and that's why they fell relatable. Even if the setting is fantasy, it's still grounded in reality, and it has that uncertainty that real life has. Maybe that's why people don't like these type of stories, because it's not the normal standard of western story telling, and it's hits too close to home. That's perfectly fine to not like theses type of stories, everyone has an opinion, and valid; also, maybe they just want to escape reality uncertainty and want to escape to a fantasy where everything is ok at the end.
There have been times in my life where it feels like conflict has been resolved and it’s time to roll the credits. Only, I wake up to another new day. This is why I enjoy this style… because I believe reality is without beginning or end, so stories like this feel more realistic and respectful of the living world. Awesome video, thank you 😊
Dude is Ratatouille a kishotenketsu
I sincerely apologise for not (yet) watching this excellent, excellent video past the 23:56 mark because of the havoc that will cause in your "RUclips Algorithm", but I have not seen _Arrietty_ yet and do not want any spoillers. Hopefully, the algorithmic gods will be somewhat appeased by the posting of this comment! 🤞🙏😊
Thank you so much!! I been looking for this and i didn't even know it till now.. Thank you We need more of this!! So tired of the 3 act fairytale
This makes so much sense now. I knew the mindset of these movies was different, but I didn't know about the structure/philosophy behind them
Big topic. Let's have a look.
"What happened to the moving van that left all their stuff outside their new house for days on end"
Considering how long it takes for that level of growth shown in the ending... i'd say we're counting in months...
Molly Grue: "But what if there isn't a happy ending?"
Schmendrick: "There are no happy endings, because nothing ends."
- The Last Unicorn (1982)
Just a detail we tend to overlook. Movies like 'Spirited Away' have a lot of conflict, but it isn't the type of conflict we are used to. When we hear the word conflict, we tend to think of a violent one that can only be resolved with a fight. Chihiro's conflicts are with the world she finds herself in, the laws that govern it and the enmity of people she meets with each other. She is drawn into the conflict between Yubaba and Zeniba as it hurts Haku and endangers his life. A conflict that she might have resolved.
Finally, I've been trying to figure out what the Japanese/Asian (Chinese) storytelling structure is for SO LONG! I know that I want to write 'anime-like' stories but as novels and I think I've found my next research area, thanks!
Thank you so very much! I've studied story structure, but this is the first time I've encountered Ki-Sho-Ten-Ketsu.
keep up the good work ❤
If they think that Miyazaki's films are "aimless" and "pointless" then they should never try watching takahata's movies.
1:30 the oak 1:32 the soak! This is the first time IVE seen this intro! This is the first time IVE seen this Channel!
It feels inherently more lazy to me to introduce plot elements without setup, the surprise change is fine but it means the writer has no limitations and any situation can be resolved by a previously unmentioned plotpoint like a bunch of characters are trapped in an elevator! in this format a character might have a previously unmentioned key, or locksmith, or the god of locks shows up, in spirited away I think it works well because the antagonist while not evil, still faces down the protagonist in a classic good vs evil standoff with the hero overcoming the antagonist, it's just more casual and less life and death, they even set up the river spirit and the black devouring spirit early on so the change in the penultimate act isn't totally random, princess mononoke sets up all of it's plot points ahead of time and it feels like a satisfying ending, it's opening event foreshadows the climax of the film by having the boar rapage mirror the forest god rampage when he's decapitated, meanwhile in howl's moving castle we are given a curse at the start, it's removed via fallen star at the end, and everything in-between is unrelated to the main plot, you could remove everything except the first and last 5 minutes of the movie and it would still make sense
I feel like I might not have understood this that well but adding a seemingly random plot element out of nowhere feels like lazier, less well planned storytelling, especially when it radically changes the plot because it suggests any previous knowledge or investment in the story can be rewritten at a whim by the writer freely throwing in and removing plot elements, that being said I don't mind more ambiguous endings but it definitely feels like the two best ghibli films involve a hero facing off with a great supernatural power and resolving the conflict like mononoke and spirited away, both even fit into the hero's journey very well with the protagonist entering the unknown world and growing as a result of it
I think, in the case of the Ghibli films, the source of conflict isn't represented by a single enemy who the protagonist has to defeat. Rather, the conflict comes from the new circunstances the protagonist gets into, making it necessary to learn and adapt to new rules and dinamics with that new world or cast of characters
So, in my own definition, a "Happily Ever After" doesn't occur when the forces of evil are defeated; rather, is when the main character overcomes a personal problem, thanks to lesson they learned during their adventure
So, you could say, the main conflict of Ghibli characters is to learn something new about life, in order to solve a problem or to adapt to new circunstances that are beyond their control. For example, growing up and accepting change like Chihiro did, or learn to live and thrive by your own, in the case of Kiki
Perhaps Hollywood films are a bit more abstract with the use of archetypes, while movies like these are more direct about what the main character and the audience has to learn... IDK, just learning the craft here
Anyway, thanks for the vid, it was very entertaining and informative
I think the Japanese traditional culture survived the onset of foreign missionaries and colonialist powers. Because of this an animistic interconnective world view lives in tandem with other modern elements of self-and-other perception in Japan. The way that the experience of nuclear holocaust was translated into the mythic Godzilla is one example of the survival of Japan's traditional culture as different from Western World culture. We would have never thought to do that. This video essay looks into the difference between Studio Ghibli and typical American movie plotting. A difference of stories defining success as living through changes inclusive of others, and stories defining success as victory of "the good" after conflict between "good" and "evil" sides.
I mean... Consider the American election year two party rivalry going on. Each calling the other the end of what both have already lost.
This was a very well made video.
Why I prefer Mobile Suit Gundam over Star Wars. The concept of a happy ending is rare in the Franchise. There are ends but they are not happy, often tragic.
This reminds me of the 3 kinds of conflict:
man vs man
Man vs the world
Man vs himself
Studio Ghibli are my favorite! So much better than Disney.
Anyone interested in story structures MUST check out 김윤미 Kim Yoonmi works. Or even just the Wikipedia list about story structures. Which was made thank to her works researching the history of the 3 act structure and where it really came from.
great work!
I struggle to enjoy Ghibli movies. Unfortunately, while this video was very insightful I'm afraid I still don't "get" most of the events in these movies. Maybe I'm trying to look too deeply.
Isn't, in the soda allegory, giving the Soda to another one bestowing the heroes achievment (getting the soda) upon their fellow men (dude who gets the Soda)?
Honestly still like a happy endings though I do understand not every story has the same conclusion
thank you this has helped me think about how to structure my novel, which is similar in terms of its message. thank you so much!
The western version comic is literally a Corn-Pops commercial LMAO
I think the deviation is not so much the deroulement of the plot but the philosophy and culture of the end of the story. Western audiences hate ambivalence or just slight narrative holes they are meant to fill with their own imagination. Christopher Nolan can pull this off too. In the west it’s either a tragedy or a heroic saga. That’s why there’s even a name for for the few unsolved dilemmas “cliffhanger”. We are also hearing a lot about “reward” for the audience.
I enjoyed this video essay, but it’s a bit reductive to lump all of Hollywood into a simplistic “Star Wars” style blockbuster bucket. They make a lot of money and get a lot of media coverage, but the breadth of film history is vast and there are countless Hollywood films that don’t adhere to this formula, including tons of classics. Many of our finest filmmakers have spent their whole careers challenging such conventions.
I think both story structures have their place in the world. They're both good in different ways and contexts. I may implement the East Asian structure in one of my stories though. It is a nice way to look at things.
Si THAT’s why The Wind Rises can be split into 4 equal sections that all together follow kishotenketsu.
Great video!
Love your content!
Thank you!
Very nice review of Ghibli movie's structure.
Ghibli movies are so wholesome warming nd beautiful that it actually pisses me off i actually watch 10 minutes of ghibli clip nd an edit i made before doing some difficult exercises
What a lovely video. Thanks for sharing
I find it interesting how Shounen anime follow the Hollywood structure when Ghibli films use しこてんけつ
Good! Good! Yes! There it is! Give him a free first rate bath token!
I hate and love arrietty because i loved and still love the story but at the end of the movue, even if i watched a lot of other movie of ghibli its was the one when after the film a was the most curiose of the life of all this character after the story, what happen to her, how is the life in the city etc, i went almost crazy dreaming of all that and knowing i would not have any answer
Excellent knowledge has been gained this day.
I never knew there was a japanese borrowers film!
Svb is that you?
I love your pov thank you for making this video
So we can put some of the blame on Hollywood movies for the American conflict mindset that drives politics. Painting anyone who disagrees with you, not as different, but as pure evil.
Heck more than that even. It seems like there’s this ever present idea amongst people that if only we defeat or overcome (insert person, group, or concept) then everything will be perfect finally and we’ll get our happy ending. The fact is though that’s an unrealistic way to look at things. There is no such thing as a “happy ending” just life.
Western vs eastern thinking difference right there
I love Arrietty it was my gay awakening!!
Pom Poko Does this best
Chewie doesn’t get a medal
Whoop!! 🙌
I love videos like these where I get to steal from Ghibli 😁
❤❤❤
Ghibli endings are always the weakest part, because everything melts into slime or falls apart. Mononoke, Howl's moving castle, Spirited away, Ponyo....It's all cool magical world and complex idiosyncratic rules until WHAM, now we're running from slime and it all meant nothing.
Meh. It's like you totally don't understand "hero journy". Instead you babbling, babbling.... empty words.
To much things are wrong! In this video. Misinterpretations, arbitrary conclusions, false premise....
While somewhat informative, the bias and personal feelings of this youtuber are a little bit too much almost like Ghibli fan boy hence not a good video to learn about each, and examples taken are like apple and orange comparison as disney princess movies are for small children while Ghibli movies are for pg-13
Better learn about the both separately from another videos, this like watching a thor fan's video on thor vs hulk 😂 a total waste of your time
It’s his channel for his opinions, he didn’t make it for you and this is not a smack down video. He explained in the first minute why he has this personal preference, it’s ridiculous to expect someone to have no opinion on something they bother to research and are passionate about enough to make a video.
You spent so long fighting the good fight against superfluous copyright claims, you deserve a break and a snack. Great video.
I also love the lack of a distinct villain. They have their place, but they are not needed in order to have conflict and thus a story. To me, the conflict in Spirited away is the demands of growing up - she has to move to a new town, save her parents, and return to the real world so as to complete moving to a new town. Happily ever after doesn't cut it, because there is always the next day.
Plenty of ghibli films have villains.
Laputa
Porco Rosso
Spirited away
Howls moving castle
@@arthursworld7302 yeah but like the story isnt really centred around defeating the villain
Yes. The conflict is more of a person versus herself/himself. She had to grow up and develop as a character. In the English release when her parents drive off in the end you hear her comment, "It won't be so bad" when her parents talk about moving to a new home and starting a new school. Implying she has matured due her time in the spirit world.
@@arthursworld7302 "vPlenty of ghibli films have villains. "
Opposition (conflicted goals); but not usually *villains* (evil).
I just thought she was lost in a world of weird and wonderful spirits. I looked up a lot of the spirits up and read about them.
I totally agree on Arrietty's ending. Having borrowers be revealed and accepted by humans would feel cheap, because we know things wouldn't end that way in reality. Life is bittersweet, it doesn't have perfect endings, so I feel Ghibli films respect the bittersweetness of life while still giving optimism and hope.
Kdramas use the Kishotenketsu structure too. I got so curious on how those were writing along with anime.
I study storytelling, it's strange that we don't learn these other types of writing. Only the Hollywood way. Even in europe
Another thing I noticed that is present in every Ghibli film is an emphasis on developing strong connections and bonds. Arrietty has to leave, and she and Sho will never see each other again, but their brief time together, and the bond they form during it irrevocably, changes both of their lives, and leaves them with memories they won't forget. Loss is okay, people have to part ways, but the bonds they form stick with them, and have lasting impacts.
A film that I can see a lot of Kishotenketsu influence in, now that I think about it, was one I just watched recently. That was IF. The structure is very similar. Intro, development, a chaotic element introduced, and change as the resolution. A lot of the ending is left up to us to decide how it will ultimately continue, and it ends out in a very Ghibli kind of way, with the biggest resolution being the personal change the main character goes through, how her bond with others in the film changes them in turn, and a return to normalcy, with her going back to living her life.
Good video, but Miyazaki himself said it wasn't a coming of age movie. He wanted to emphasize to girls/children of this age that they had the strength already in them to deal with obstacles. The Japanese version doesn't have the last line that the US version does. Chiro's father doesn't ask her at the end if she's worried about going to school. There is no dialogue at all. In the Japanese version again, it's implied Chihiro also doesn't remember what happened. The only evidence that it did is her hair tie. Which I think ties into her experience per Miyazaki better. She doesn't have to remember what happened to deal with her new school, life, etc. WE the audience have already seen she can handle things.
Not sure about them coming out to find their car all dusty. I think it was always that way, after driving through the woods when they first arrived. If you remember, the area around the entrance to the tunnel to the park was strangely clear and there was no overgrowth at all. Wouldn't it be overgrown if the area had been abandoned for years? I think once they passed the torii, they were in the land of spirits. That wasn't what the entrance to the tunnel looked like at all in the 'mortal' world. In the mortal world it was overgrown, with hanging branches and tall grass and weeds. Their car looked like it should after driving crazily to the area, so there wasn't a passage of time, just a difference of worlds.
love this, actually. this comment is gonna be bouncing around in my head for a long time now
I may be forgetting mentions of timelines within the film, but I'm not sure why you're suggesting "abandoned for years". Dust and leaves should appear between a couple days to a couple weeks, which, iirc, should match up with the idea that time has passed.
@@billybonesbaggins I mean the park had been abandoned for years. At least 11 years. So the entrance to the park, where the car arrived, should be overgrown. It wasn't until the end of the movie.
I've never heard someone say a Ghibli movie is pointless.
Yeah, none of the “people who dislike Ghibli say this” things are things I’ve ever heard a real human say… 😅
I'll say it. Kiki's Delivery Service is an example. It felt like a Slice of Life Manga.
Oh, you can find those in reactions on RUclips. Badd Medicine's reaction to Spirited Away had all those and more. They had to take it down (they caught so much flack) but their apology video can still be found.
Oh, I've heard plenty of people say Ghibli movies are boring movies, where nothing happens that it ends up being pointless. As if the nothing that happens isn't the point
I don't know about Yababa not being a villain. Just because her powers are explained through rules, doesn't mean she ever shows true goodness. She does everything purely for self-interest, when it comes to every character she interacts with. except her own son, who she encourages to operate out of the same value-system by giving him every conceiveable comfort at the expence of everyone else. When she praises Chihiro over the river spirit bathing, what she really wants her workers to "learn from Chihiro" is that any terrible work for her should be done if there's a possibility it will result in proceeds for her. This impression of her is furthur reinforced when she is thrilled with No-face until the very moment he stops giving thing to the bathhouse and starts consuming things and people from it, a situation she's quick to blame Chihiro for, even though a little though should tell her a human child couldn't have known she had caused this magical problem. In Greek myth and other storytelling, such as the story of Herculeese, working for a villain is often the pathway to defeating and outsmarting them, saving oneself and others from them, or extracting wealth from them. This story DOES fit that pattern, even if it uses another structure as well. In the end, Yababa is breifly thrown by Chihero showing wampth, rather than antagonism toward her, and she or her world may be possitively affected by the change in her son's maturity, generosity and way of thinking introduced by Chihiro, but her bathhouse reamins a place where identity is stripped from workers and workers are worked to death in poor conditions, simply because that'swhat searves Yubaba. It's nice to see a world where even Yubaba can be imagined changing her ways eventually, but it's also unlikely if it will happen. More likely, any authentic kindness that comes from her will have to be pulled out of her by strategy and force - the definition of a villain.
i think the two are supposed to represent yin yang so itd make sense for more to be more..selfish/neg. as shed be representing the neg side of the circle. there is still good in her it just instant as obvious as the pos or good side. and there is still bad in the good just not as obvious. ya know?
Yeah, I noticed that during the scene where Yubaba congratulates Chihiro, the line where she says "you made us so much money!" was cut out.
It's a different culture. Aren't they allowed to not have a villain?
@@StubbyandShifu That would be facinating and it is almost true. But I agree with Max, the above commenter. Yababa is an evil witch with a good witch twin. This kind of storytelling feels familiar. Which is not to say this style of storytelling doesn't at least help create more focus on nuance. Just about everyone close to Yababa is shown to be not just able to be outsmarted or manipulated, as we tend to expect, but actually redeamable and potentially complex beyond the innitial frightening impression they give. Meanwhile, "good" characters we'd expect to be ceaselessly possitive to Chihiro like Haru (also a lost child who instructs and assists her) surprise us by seeming to do bad things (Suddenly becoming emotionally distant in talking to Chihiro while in the bathhouse after her hiring, stealing magic things from people who haven't harmed them.) And this justifies the hopelessness and cutthroat self-preservation of people at the bathhouse, by showing us that people often end up compromised by the abusive system they're stuck in. Almost everyone can still be convinced to act for someone's good other than their own when that person shows a good faith willingness to sacrifice selflessly themselves. With this kind of writing, it seems possible that Yababa could be brought arround to show concern for somebody other than herself and her own child or that, if not, the right change of human dynamics arround her could simply make her power meaningless or inconveniant for her not to share more fairly, as happens with Chhiro's escape in the end. All the same, she remains defined entirely by greed, so she doesn't quite make it out of evil witch character behavior.
I like what you had to say about kishōtenketsu vs. the Western 3-act structure, but I think it’s oversimplifying to define conflict as a direct struggle between two characters or between good and evil. That’s not how I learned it in school at least, and I think Ghibli films still use conflict to drive the story forward. I would just define conflict more as tension, which lots of stories have! But I would say that the vending machine kishōtenketsu example proves you don’t have to have tension to make a compelling story.
I don’t like the clickbait title, but the video itself is extremely interesting
One other key difference I've noticed through your description, in western films it seems like the antagonist is always a person or specific event. In eastern stories, the antagonist is often just life.
No face was the most terrifying thing to me growing up his moans and luring people to eat them made me nope every time and when they were friends I was very disturbed and confused
Except that Hollywood doesn't use a 3-Act structure. It uses the 14-Act structure. It's ironic that you chose Star Wars as the example, since that's the specific film that set the trend for the 14-Act structure to dominate Hollywood and TV. You even said as much later on, apparently not realising that the Hero's Journey *is* the 14-Act structure.
More, this is only superficially different to the 3-Act structure, when we realise that the 2nd Act is half the runtime. You're splitting 25/25/25/25, the 3-Act structure is 25/50/25. Or "Ki-sho-ten-ketsu" vs "Ki-shoten-ketsu", as it were. The plot beats are the same, you're just counting the mid-point climax as the end of an Act. 3-Act structure considers that the middle of Act 2.
It's functionally the same structure.
I thought the same thing
The beauty of these stories is that they tell us nothing is more important than kindness. We all are human - including magical creatures and animals -, so someone you don't understand at first can become your friend and help you later on.
Be patient, be diligent and kind, and life will be good to you. You don't need to be a hero to be happy. Just be a human among humans.