Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster: Ethics Case Study No. 1
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024
- Allan J. McDonald, former director of the Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Motor Project for Morton Thiokol, discusses the events surrounding the destruction of the Space Shuttle Challenger.
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RIP Allan McDonald. Thank you for shedding light on a critical day in history.
I hope he knew Christ
I read his book. It is very articulate, very well written and touches on almost every aspect of the tragedy. It has an air of brutal honesty without sugar coating the situation. Kudos to what this gentleman went through. It is hard to find integrity like that today.
Lol...hand your average person a,couple million dolla book deal and they will find any type of "integrity" that you want them too find as fast as you want them too find it
@@richardgrace4500 Why do you think this is the case?
you just need to hang out with a better class of "friends"/co-workers.
Yeah and he was part of the culture for decades, why didn’t he change it or leave? That’s what most engineers do, not hang around and complain.
Brad Watson oh boy🙄
I'm not sure how many people agree, but feel that Allan McDonald is a true American hero. His experience teaches us that we should stand up for ourselves no matter how big the opposition is and no matter the result.
This man is the only American restored to is job by an act of congress.
This man is a hero. What he didn’t explain in this briefing was he was DEMOTED to a scheduling position. When the chairman found out, he had every executive fired. Watch the documentary CHALLENGER: A rush to launch. It is amazing that BOTH tragedies were made by unethical executives. We lost 14 souls on a challenger and Columbia. That’s loss of human life. You can never put a price tag on that. God bless this unsung hero and a man named Roger Bojilea. This is the type of ethics and case stories that need to be taught to our children earlier on so they truly understand what ethics mean and how important they truly are.
Link:
CHALLENGER: A rush to launch
ruclips.net/video/2FehGJQlOf0/видео.html
He shouldn’t have been demoted. He should have been fired completely along with the other genius engineers that didn’t get this problem resolved.
@@krakenwoodfloorservicemcma5975 you clearly are unfamiliar with the full story. Therefore your comment is absolutely stupid.
We need good leaders like Donald Trump 👏
@@krakenwoodfloorservicemcma5975 he insisted that they shouldnt launch that day his bosses and nasa over ruled him
his voice is annoying AF though
It's amazing to hear the real story after all these years. Some people have integrity in their bones like this man. Others, not so much.
@Pyroman / Type normal you Conspiracy freak! 🖕🏻
J.V.R. Pyroman was mocking the people who claim it’s a conspiracy. That’s why he was typing that way...
Oh yes...bet those millions handmade of of a book deal and book sells kinda helped with that "integrity"
@@richardgrace4500 Oh no! People profit off books! SHOCKING.
His honesty is riveting for sure. He tried so hard to stop the launch and no one would listen or cared. So sad.
Thank you sir, and also thanks to Roger Bosjoly, the original whistle-blower. He was a guest speaker in an engineering ethics course I took at Purdue University while studying structural engineering about 25 years ago. He said that the decision NOT to launch amongst the engineers was UNAMINOUS. As a reward for his honesty, his career was destroyed, he was blacklisted, and eventually became an independent consultant.
Totally unbelievable, but true.
read GAO reports - so many failed programs
I heard he was reinstated when a former Air Force general on the commission found out what they did to punish him for telling the truth!
I believe the first whistleblower was Richard Cook, who worked as a budget analyst for NASA at the time.
Allan, were going to miss you buddy! You are a hero to me. Rest in Peace.
I can’t believe how much I enjoyed listening to this guy explaining what happened. Very well spoken👌🏼
I agree, I've rewatched this lots of times!
His voice is annoying and he is always gritting his teeth.
@@krakenwoodfloorservicemcma5975
Your face is annoying.
@@krakenwoodfloorservicemcma5975 I'd grit my teeth, too, if I had been in his place and had to tell this story. So painful.
He should have chewed gum and fixed the damn problem. Engineers knew about this for years.
I worked on the project, I was there! He is just about the only one to tell the truth.
I have been waiting for them to publicly acknowledge they died on impact of the water!
The recordings exist. The shuttle had an equivalence of a air craft black box. They used there emergency oxygen which can only be activated by a rear crew member.
I worked on the SRB parachute recovery system (SRBDSS). Our system had nothing to do with the failure, and as a matter of fact, the drogue parachute which was seen coming down with the isogrid structure, and was recovered in condition to have been reused, which of course they didn't!
We were only concerned with the performance of our system, above the forward deck attachment to the SRB's, and so never looked at the downstage postflight reports, even though it was in the same document. We were called in to submit a complete analysis of everything about our subsystem. At the time, I finally looked at the downstage reports for previous flights, and found the the previous August and the April before that, there was leakage past the O-rings for 120 degrees (1/3 of the circumference of the booster) on both flights! Fortunately, the leaks didn't cause any harm..then. But they were there! Had I know this and said anything, I would have been told to mind my own business, as the booster below the parachute attach points were not our responsibility! In his book, Mr. McDonald states that Larry Malloy told MT engineering to "Stop thinking like an engineer and start thinking like a manager!" Wonder if LM has ever had a decent night's sleep since?
James Barnard Wow! That’s DEEP! I’ve often wondered how integrated the entire team was with the program. Why was it the case that there were those within such management positions that would say “Mind your own business, that’s none of your concern” when it obviously raises someone’s concern?
@@jacoballen3267 I'm observing and am baffled, (mind blown actually!), at the, " mind your own business", part. This MAJOR TASK warrants a collective team effort.
I'm an observer and not at all educated in any of these things. 😳
ruclips.net/video/1CMTD97CMD4/видео.html
@@jamesbarnard9710 Both Mulloy and William Lucas (director of Marshall at the time) appear in the Netflix Challenger documentary. Out of everyone interviewed, those two are the only ones who still say they'd make the same decision because "the data was inconclusive" and, essentially, they knew the risks.
I found it disgusting and telling that they were the only ones who took that stance.
R.I.P., Allan J. McDonald (July 9, 1937 - March 6, 2021), the Morton-Thiokol executive WHO LISTENED to his company's engineers. Dead from a fall at age 83.
This guy is a hero. If everyone else at Thiokol had this type of integrity, the disaster would have been aborted. Thank you, sir, for refusing to sign that launch recommendation.
Carolyn B . I beieve this was the launch with the teacher on it. It was such a tradegy! I just hope we can learn from others selfish decisions. It will save many lives!
His last sentences were, "Make sure that what you thought was important got to the right people. That's what I wished I would have done." Refusing to sign off on that launch didn't save anybody. He didn't actively promote the launch, but he didn't actively stop it either, which he could have done, and that tormented him. He stepped aside and left it to others.
He was one of the good guys, absolutely, but had he done more, he could have saved the day, all on his own. The launch would have been scrubbed, he would have been fired, and no one would have died. That would have made him a hero, but nobody, not even he himself, would ever have known that he had saved seven lives and the most sophisticated and expensive spacecraft in human history. We can never know who the heroes are. We can only know whether we ourselves are working toward goodness, as Boisjoly would say.
Nobody cares about the loud mouthed teacher. We had important military hardware to get up in space and that is just a fact.
@@krakenwoodfloorservicemcma5975 You're not even trying to make sense anymore. You're just trying to shock people with offensive comments. Why are you still trolling this video? I thought you had a grudge against engineers, but clearly that's not the case. Do you score points when someone like me takes your bait and replies? What motivates this?
I am 58 years old. I have yet to meet a manager who was not willing to overlook safety concerns when money was at stake.
This man would also make a great lawyer.
I have a lot of respect for him.
This man would make a great president that could straighten this country out by mearly being moral an doing the right thing
We have a great president in trump. And trump likes the guys that don’t get caught and the guys that don’t blow up spacecraft.
No heavy editing. No dramatic music or embellished sound effects. No irritating dickheads. Perfect.
4:20 - Wow. This man's decision was so courageous; he can at least be comfortable with his stance for the remainder of his life. However, seven astronauts lost their lives, and the nation (and world) was shocked. It's so sad that the 'higher ups' are, at times, more concerned with saving face than listening to their own team of skilled engineers and other 'hands on' people.
Anyone who is going to be a manager of engineeners on projects where lives are at stake certainly should be humble and level headed enough to follow the protocol that engineers set in place, like "Don't launch unless temps are within the recommended guideline." Following guidelines set in place shouldn't be that hard. The bozos here with big egos apparently were unable to reel those egos in and say "it's a no go". Apparently "just saying no" is more complicated than rocket science.
R.I.P. Mr. Allan J. McDonald. Thank you for your bravery.
I still can't wrap my heard around that they didn't listen to the engineers
I'm an engineer and have been in that same situation. There is often pressure, either scheduling, financial and/or political, which can affect some people's decision making. Managers often will succumb to that type of pressure while engineers are usually more data-driven. It's called cognitive dissonance. Emotions and beliefs can sometimes conflict with and override logic and reason. This conflict can cause psychological stress and lead to flawed decision making.
Yup...They were under pressure to launch.... so they took the risk!
There are modern parallels with Boeing and the 737 max project
Sad part is 17 years later they didn't learn a damn thing before Columbia happened poor management caused both tragedies
@@Northern_Farmer most of the management are driven by money they are so greed that they can literally kill for it, other peoples lives doesnt matter to them as long they have money its okay to them , humanity is lost buddy
Bless you, Allan! Thank you for being honest and forthright!
This is an amazing account of a historical event that has been covered up. Truly a shame of such a flagrant unethical situation.
A thoroughly decent man doing his job to the best of his ability without lying, manipulating or dishonesty. It was the tragic complacency of others around him that caused this disaster... and negligence, blunder, arrogance and a complete disregard for safety will no doubt cause many more to happen.
The problem really goes back to STS-51-C Discovery in 1985. The temperature at the STS-51-C Launch was 53 degrees and the O-ring failed. It was just luck that the Shuttle didn't explode in 1985.
goes back further goes all the way back to sts-1
The piggy back orbiter was canned by Von Braun back in the 60's, this project was poor engineering.
Agreed ....... and here was the issue ....... NASA removed the tank paint ,,,,,,, and miles of heavy wiring to sensors (For structural requirement ) to save 50,000 pounds ........ but NASA knew of the o-ring burning , but they chose to ignore it.... If the sensors were in place , the problem would be detected
@@davidriostanczak2443 yeah... just to sensor what would cause another loss of life...🤔
Because once those booster rockets light up...... no turning back...
I’m not an engineer but I found this ethical case study very interesting. I was very young when this happened and did not understand the magnitude of what ‘really’ happened (especially with organizational management).
It’s a fascinating story on engineering, government, ethics and business. They all had a hand in this. NASA was holding the next contract to build future SRB’s over Thiokol’s head at that time. Had a lot to do with their management overruling the engineers.
crosshead4 I think with the other shuttle crash that happened a few years ago, the final investigation report led to the same problems again! Poor communication and organizational management! You would think that NASA would have learned from the first disaster but I guess not.
904 CZV That’s certainly true but there’s many other parts of the story to consider. NASA was only allowed to study, improve or redesign those parts of the shuttle that had the biggest problems. Main engine turbo pumps, some of the thermal protection as an example. And they only got those things funded because of promised future cost savings and higher payload to orbit. After about 1992 they weren’t allowed to make upgrades hardly at all. That led to their management having to invent rationals to keep flying with dangerous problems.
If the engineers were so smart, they would have fixed it before it exploded. Just something to think about.
Allen knows his stuff.
He was very brave to stand up and tell the truth of what really happened.
I just wish that if those guys would have agreed with Allan important lives would have been saved.
Every life is important
Did y'll note his tie? This guy adores his work in aerospace obviously.
You are a hero to me Mr McDonald
This made me think about this gentleman’s career. To level up to the rank he was in importance to the SRB system and then have your career highlighted by the Challenger disaster. The good guys don’t always finish first even when the evidence points in that direction. I hope people can view his career as more than the Challenger incident and see that he attempted to stop the launch but red tape prevailed.
His book is "Truth, Lies, and O-Rings: Inside the Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster" (2012)
No shit. He said that.
It rhymes pretty neatly with what Mike Pompeo said, some two years ago, in his address to the military academy graduating cadets in their commencement ceremony: "We lie, we cheat, and we steal. The CIA even have training courses for that."
NASA wanted something better than a “qualitative observation” to change the 'launch commit criteria'... I say, take any piece of rubber, stick it in a freezer, then hand it to them to have them bend it.
And that's exactly what Dr Feinman did with the o ring in a glass of ice water. He applied a clamp to it and it did not return to its original shape.
Management over engineering is lethal.
I totally agree!!!😡
@@joshualenton7829 Feynman's little trick was staged by and for Feynman.
Final line tells the tale: "Make sure that what you thought was important got to the right people, ...that's what I wished I would had done."
Sadly , it is hard to go above a boss's head and up the chain of command. The threats can be very real for anyone who does.
@@1houndgal you got that right but I've done it it cost me my job but fuck it atleast nobody got hurt I found a better job an that prick got his ass demoted an in a fit of rage got his bitch ass knocked out by a former Co worker of mine
As a pad engineer there were a few times I refused to sign off on work that was not properly done. Management and others involved bitched but went and redid the work correctly.
Timothy brummer well done 4 having the courage to not sign off on work nit done right fair play to you..keep up the good work dont take any crap off a1 keep standing up for what u believe in
Knee pads?
This Man Knew What Could Happen on A Frozen Launch Pad! And Nobody Cared, Till It Was Too Late!
This is unbelievable. What a great interview. This is why I don't have TV and just rely on youtube for TV experience. Because of videos like this. Amazing. Tragic.
My dad was a aeronautical space engineer for NASA he built the cooling system on the space shuttles I grew up in Houston Texas dad worked at Johnson Space Center in Clear Lake I was fortunate enough to be able to work there for a while with the astronauts we take them down in the water in the pool and get them neutral in case they need to go outside the cargo bay for any missions I feel God was stopping the Challenger by so many delays and people forced it to happen unfortunately some very tragic consequences only saw my dad cry once in his life and that was the time
When he passed away, I hope the Smithsonian acquired that tie and proudly displays it!
I think it’s the coolest tie I’ve ever seen and he’s cool as ish for wearing it.
Really great book. A page turner that was really non biased and informative!
This is why you don’t allow managers to make important safety decisions.
A truly honourable man.
Hope you are resting in peace, Mr Allan J. MacDonald.
A man of such integrity
Allan McDonald is a hero in my book. If only they'd listened to him, many lives could've been saved. Instead they tried and failed to discredit him.
Every Engineering student should be made to watch this vid !
Rest in peace Allan J. McDonnald. Well deserved rest.
The man spoke out when he saw which direction the inquiry was going , that would never happen today
When people's lives are turned into projects, meeting room decisions, deadlines, esteem, promotions, profits, etc. risks are taken and the value for a human life is lost
A great stand up guy, RIP, you did the right thing :)
So sad that millions of schoolchildren watched the launch and explosion in real time
Glad I fell on this. Engineers like you is why i'm not painting my cave with my own excrement. Well, that and I can't paint.
Why to I get the feeling that in about 7 years time I am going to hear about a similar pattern of behaviour within Boeing in relation to the 737Max?
I think it will be in 4 of 5 years top.
By the way, there is a great documentary made by Russia Today about Boeing, and how they lowered the cost to build a cheaper airplane but with a lot less quality.
Perhaps after a while NASA just refused to believe a failure could happen. Lesson: if there were not failures for the first 100th times, there may be a problem the 101th time.
I think of you as a hero for standing the high ground. I too was once fired for standing the moral high ground. Can’t wait to see on the other side. But not yet, I sill have work to finish. You did your best, it was not your fault.
ASMR master. I could listen to him talk for hours.
I have always wondered what would have happened to Allan J. McDonald had the Challenger NOT exploded. He refused to sign the aproval document, and I'm quite certain his action would have lead to him being fired, and we would have never known any of it.
This is why I think he should have gone to the press... once he refused to sign it... the dye was cast.
j alon likely age discrimination nothing to do with honesty
@j alon I mentioned age discrimination... you act like he couldn't get a job because of this incident but likely it was natural consequences.
It would have done no good to go to press by the time it was printed or broadcast to the mass the challenger was already gone
May this hero rest in peace.
AL, you're a hero, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I don't know what else you could have done.
He could have fixed the O-ring problem..
No! The Right SRB Did fail at T Zero .786 seconds into the Flight. This was the 1st puff of smoke from the joint of the right SRB that failed
Why o Why are not the big no nothing's of NASA been in federal jail for the last 20 some years ????????
Because there is no such thing as a "federal jail". Cities and counties run jails. The federal government, along with the states, run prisons.
Had some of these NASA managers been working for certain other governments, they would likely have wound up either in a cold place west of Alaska, or been briefly stood up in front of a wall wearing a blindfold! Instead, they were mostly allowed to retire with "golden parachutes"!
@@csn6234 I feel like you're nitpicking, not answering the question
5:13 what a boss move. seems like corporate America didn't learn anything from this disaster, with the way Boeing is conducting business in recent years.
I think all the people involved with green lighting the launch who knew better should be in jail.
This is one smart man, and a true hero, along with Roger Boisjoly
Mr. McDonald is an honest, brave American engineer. I thank him for his courageous service to our nation.
He didn’t engineer shit. Just making money off a book from you clowns that need a hero.
my hero. I was in a meeting on Falcon AFB, Major Pearce came in and said the Challenger blew up, I was astounded the meeting didnt pause. Colonel Pine was on board selected Teacher McAucliffe.
I was in FL for STS99 launch - I remember checking the thermometer.
RIP Allan great man! cheers from former Thiokol Atk Orbital and now Grumman .. Cheers from West Valley Utah!
I've watched numerous credible Challenger documentaries; Allan J. McDonald is a hero.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND MY STORY IS NOTHING COMPARED TO POOR CHALLENGER DISASTER - BUT JUST TO HIGHLIGHT THE "MANAGEMENT VS ENGINEERS"
From 2001 - 2015 i worked for the adhesive company BOSTIK (formally aka Evo-Stik) the place was a time capsule from the 50's, asbestos roofs, the filling machines, the adhesive mixing tanks, and raw material weighing dept was still using equipment well over 50 years old, engineers forever complained that spare parts were impossible to get as most of the original machine builders no longer existed "BUT" the severe pressure and threats from the production management forced them to bodge the machines to get them working again, and not surprisingly - accidents/chemical spills were a weekly event
Do the world a favor and stick a tube of that adhesive in your mouth.
Thank you for posting these information bits. I have learned the deeper situation, from posts like these. The only thing 2020 did was RUclips with incredible finds . Thanks
Peace-out 🌎
Funny how the one principled guy who put his career on the line to do the right thing and refuse to approve the launch is the one who seems to now have no problem talking about what happened. Even though it may not have been enough to save the crew's lives, in a way it saved his own life and he was able to live his life without guilt.
Mr McDonald makes the exact point regarding the Columbia that occurred to me after THAT disaster: how could NASA, a SECOND TIME, dismiss the concerns of scientists, and go forward with allowing the completion of the mission? I know some will say, that with Columbia, there was no choice, but I still find it unconscionable.
Lesson here "obedience to authority and conforming to peer pressures "
It's no wonder NASA isn't launching people into space anymore. A lot of blood on their hands. They were apart of some truly remarkable achievements, yes, but there is definitely some blood on their suits. 14 of them just in the Shuttle. They had a pretty good record until the shuttle. This hero and the whistle blower from the Theranos case are my heroes.
Always listen to your engineers...they know better.
Yes check and double check.
That theory built this country; unfortunately, that’s not the same in the country we live in now.
Sir, You are a great American!
This video should be called a profile in courage.
Why a person who does the right things, is so beautiful? With all my respect Sir, God bless you.
We know now that both of this space shuttle accidents ( Challange and Columbia ) could be avoided and never happend! So sad :(
Although, it would have been extremely difficult to rescue Columbia's crew. I don't know what to do for that.
The late Jay Barbree said of the Columbia disaster was ' if they had only looked'. Which is to say that if they had used the tools at their disposal, they (NASA) would have seen the damage.
its pretty simple . rubber shrinks when it gets cold and expands when it gets hot
What were the O rings made of
Whatever they were made of, it wasn’t good enough. Some high heat composite I am sure.
Wooow I couldn't believe it ..the truth comes out .. Those guys should be in jail .. They just rushed that launch.. SMFH 😠
Solid dude. Solid tie too.
Bravo, sempre bello riascoltare le sue parole, uno scienziato che antepone l'etica ad ogni interesse.
Is there a "No. 2" part of this video?... Regards...
It was only some molten material that temporarily sealed the joint that prevented it from blowing up on the launch pad
I have always felt that someone, at NASA, Morton Thiokoll, or both, should have been charged with manslaughter. There is no doubt, in my mind, that what they did in launching in these conditions, amounted to reckless negligence.
Thank you Sir.
This should be made into a movie
How could NASA not define the limits within which the vehicle could be launched?
I always love that "well who in the hell are you?" comment in all of his interviews
I READ HIS BOOK (TEXT) & he was SPOT ON. NASA & the company he was employed with, at time tried to stir him away from those officials who later assembled the Investigation Committee of the cause of the loss of crew, of Challenger. Before NASA & his management he worked with, tried to prevent him from speaking with the organizers, didn't happen. Many recognized him & asked his engineering views & later testified in front of the Investigation Committee on the loss of Crew of Challenger. I don't remember the name of his text but is available from bookstores. Later, he was in charge of re-designing the joint area..Since then no failures have occurred
this man is a HERO!!!!
A True Hero who tried to avoid this awful tragedy 🩵🤍🇺🇲✨🌌🌠🪐☄️🚀🎆 Rest In Everlasting Peace to the Crew of the challenger never forgotten 🪶 🤍 🕊️
So both disasters could have been addressed in somewhat. How tragic. How irresponsibly tragic. And this was the guy all the news reports were talking about in regards to the Challenger. All my life I was taught to be honest and straight forth, and to hear about this account that killed two crews of two shuttle missions ... I just don't know how to react. It's beyond outrage. And of all programs to do this, NASA, with the most dangerous missions. What a huge shame.
The million children watching, could not have gotten a better lesson.
Absolutely! We are all disposable! Welcome to real USA kids! Get back to studying and stay out of flying Clorox bottles. Oh and your teacher will finally shut up.
This guy is intense! He's not bullshiting. He Knows The Solid Rocket Booster. He tried to stop the Launch. He saw the Rocket Fuel Gushing Out of the Solid Rocket!
HE WAS RIGHT! HE TOLD THEM TO NOT LAUNCH THE CHALLENGER THIS MORNING! THEY IGNORED HIM. AND IT COST ALL OF THE CREW THEIR LIVES💔🖤🔥
It was a rush for launch!! It was way to cold!!!
If NASA launch management would've listened to Mr. McDonald's recommendation on temperature affects on the SRB O-rings, those astronauts would be alive today.
He was the smartest mam in the room that day he knew what was going to happen and nothing got done so its on nasa
Al, “that shouldn’t be your concern”. Wow!
Ethics and Civics should be taught again in this country.
So, what is the difference between an explosion and a break u? In the picture of the shuttle it looks like the tank exploded and so did the orbiter.