Hey all! Loads of great comments. I don't have time this week to get to them, but a couple themes: 1) the hook and wicket system that Neversink sells can help reduce stress on the tunnel and on the plants. I see no issues with that. The trellis part though is just the same QLIPR system (you can also use tomahooks etc). Will have some DIY hook and wicket content soon as well so 👀 . 2) I have not used cattle panels which is why I didn't include them. They're not cheap or light, but it is a one-time purchase so that will help make it affordable over time. If it works for you--awesome! And 3) tying off a string and training the plants is fine too but eventually, in a tunnel at least, you will run out of string and have to tie new string on. Not a big deal on a small scale but on a production scale would not be ideal (I tried it years ago). Thanks y'all!
I'm in South Carolina and I have probably the most bizarre tomato growing system I have ever seen. I basically break all the conventional rules because it works for my context. I can get a local potting mix that is certified organic for around $200 dollars a pallet, as the guy who owns the business is a buddy of mine. I fill around 200 three gallon buckets with said potting mix and set them in a field covered with black plastic mulch. I then use the Florida Weave system to trellis them. I plant them out way early, generally around late March and cover them with Agribon when they are still small in case for freak freezes. To put things in context, I already have small tomatoes on all my plants and it is April 21st. We get a big first flush of tomatoes by the first week of June, enough to where I make around $6-10 dollars per plant, with my overhead being around $2 dollars per plant. Then I terminate the crop. This is why I only use 3 gallon buckets. Everyone says 5 is the minimum you should use, but that is if you want a plant all season. I'm doing determinate tomatoes, getting the first wave, and then chopping. Otherwise disease will start to hit anyways, so what is the point? We take the leftover potting mix, which is around 600 gallons, rejuvenate it with composted chicken manure, and then fill 60 ten gallon grow bags with the mix. We then plant 1 mini love watermelon in each grow bag and it is off to the races. The 60 mini love watermelons grow in the field that is covered in black plastic and we harvest them by the end of July. Then we empty all the pots, rejuvenate with both perlite (didn't use this first time) and more compost, and put it back into the original 200 3 gallon buckets. We then grow beans in the buckets. The beans finish in about mid-September. We empty all the bags, add more chicken compost, and refill the 200 3 gallon buckets. Then about mid-September I plant 200 Castle Dome broccoli plants (earliest heading broccoli that is dwarf) in each of the buckets. This is how you grow in containers for profit. The next spring I dump all the leftover potting mix on top of my beds and grow lettuce and leafy greens in those beds for a few seasons. You could keep refilling the buckets with a different crop if you want. It's like an infinite loop of potting mix. Works very well. Wala.
I love watching you on Sunday morning and I really LOVE your book. Thank you so much for being an excellent steward of Mother Earth and for all of the effort I know you put into to your videos. I’ve learned so much from you! Keep growing!!
Great video. You can save time by not tying your tomatoes to the string. Lay the string in the planting hole and place tomato on top. Plant as usual. Now your string is secure and ready for trellising. Love watching your videos. So much great information and your personality makes them fun. Your book is on my wish list. Hope to purchase soon.
I like to use cattle panels on t-posts...BUT, I have extra plants this year and no more cattle panels. I've never tried the Florida weave, but will be trying it this year. Thanks for the great explanation!
I made a bunch of 'tomahooks' out of metal hangers that I cut and bent them used a huge roll of twine I bought to string them (this was years ago when they were more expensive and I was super cheap lol). That gave me something to do in the winter sitting by the fire (we don't have TV so we work on projects or read etc in the evenings.)
Love your book, Thank you Farmer Jesse. We do not market garden, we grow for ourselves, family, and friends. We grow our maters in a hoop house, and use paracord tied to the cross members above. The lower end we plant in the hole with the tomato start or the seed. As the plant grows, we wrap it around the paracord. Works fine for our small plantings of 6-12 plants. After the season, we cut off the vines, kind of roll up the paracord, and leave it tied to the cross members. We find the paracord lasts for about 3 or 4 seasons. One tip: do NOT use reflective paracord, b/c it'll look like hornworm in the UV light! Oy.
Home gardener here. I have a permanent bed with a T-shaped trellis made of 16'x50" cattle panels. The 16' is the horizontal axis placed about 18-24" above the soil line so the top is around 6 feet tall. As the tomatoes grow I push the vines through the opening front to back/back to front. No tying. For the really tall ones I just let them ramble across the top of T. One could use cattle panels or remesh panels or coils and attach them to T-posts 2' off the ground. This gives you 6' of height that's supported. The posts need to be secure but the panels/remesh are rigid and can extend above the posts. You will need to weave the plants through the holes but I only use every third hole or so (about 18") not back forth through each one. Weave is a generous term, I just shove them through but again, home gardener. Cattle panels last forever, are $25 at Tractor Supply. Remesh panels are lighter and thinner but not plated so it's rusty. They both store flat and are so danged useful. Remesh rolls that are usually cut and used for individual cages can be rolled up at the end of the season for one fat roll instead of a bunch of separate ones. Basically it's one long fence that you weave the plants through. It's not for everyone but I thought it might help someone or spark an idea that works for you.
@@jjwerning I found this-it's the video that inspired me to build my T trellis. ruclips.net/video/Nwi8ZCiCWiI/видео.html Charles has passed on but his channel is still there and he has an amazing garden. Here's a different style ruclips.net/video/xaSbRpWciVM/видео.html This is another option for a cattle panel trellis ruclips.net/video/Nwi8ZCiCWiI/видео.html My tomato trellis is most like the first one. The only changes I made was I cut longer pieces of top rail and slipped them over the posts so they go all the way to the ground. I also mounted the vertical cattle panels higher, up to the top of the posts just under the horizontal cross pieces. The gap is now at the bottom so the plants get a couple of feet tall before I start threading them through. Throughout the season I just push the vines through every third opening or so. No tying needed. When they get tall I just let them run across the top. I also plant pole beans under the vertical panel and let them do their thing. Lastly, I attached the panels with worm gear clamps. The vertical panel is hung from the horizontal one up top and attached to the posts. This ties the whole structure together. It's been up for years and it's still sturdy. I used chain link fence top rail and connectors. The last video uses EMT and Maker Pipe connectors. That may be a more cost effective option and they have a variety of connectors to give you more flexibility. Hope this helps.
I grow my tomato plants on woven wire fences. I just tie the branches to the fence as they grow. I use drippers to water the plants and I space my plants 4 ft. apart. I mulch my plants heavily. Since I don't till, I leave the fencing in place from year to year. I grow a lot of my vegetables on the fences.
Im in Wisconsin, zone 4 and I've grown all types of tomatoes for over 3 decades and tried several types of trellising but I've found that the tomatoes are happier, healthier and ripen faster just sprawling across clean, warm mulch. It is more difficult to harvest them though, especially as I age. Also, just before a frost, I harvest all tomatoes and ripen them indoors on a table. They continue to ripen until January to March, keeping me in fresh tomatoes over winter.
I tried tomatoes with out trellis this year over weed barrier. I planted enough to accept the loses, but next year I will be trellising; I just had too many rodent and disease problems.
I grow outside and have used cages, Florida weave, hanging string and my favorite is cattle panels. Cattle panels are very strong and easy to move. I attach them to the Tee posts straight down the row. If you use 7 or 8 ft Tee posts the panels can be raised up giving more air flow at the bottom and more height overall. On indeterminate toms all I do is tie the vine sideways along the top. My second favorite is the Florida weave. As always thanks for all the information and insight.
Was surprised that he didn't mention this or similar solid rolled out metal or plastic net options! We use the biodegradable clips and leave the tomato residue up over the winter till it's crispy and easier to break off the trellis.
I built a 30-ft cattle panel tunnel and have used it for tomatoes. However, I'm moving to steel wire trellis for tomatoes and reserving the tunnel for peas and green beans. Also attach a couple gutters on the inside of the tunnel for planting strawberries, lettuce and radishes.
Yup, I started using this system last year. Good air flow, minimal maintenance of the plants because they can weave in and out. System will last a long time.
Yes to cattle panels. Moving can be hard when rotating crops, but I plant other crops leaving panels in place. Also the panels can be used as the structure for covering your plants against the weather.
About twelve years ago we invested in some heavy duty folding tomato cages. VERY pleased with them and we still have all thirty of them and they are still very functional. Our tomato growing season lasts from early June until almost November. We plant indeterminate tomatoes and often times they will be well over ten feet tall. This year we are going to try the tomahook system on double leaders. Hopefully it will make managing the tomato plants much easier as well as less disease and easier harvesting .......................... fingers crossed! As always Thank You for yet another informative and fun video!
I am growing 6 tomato plants and 6 cucumber plants outdoors in a raised bed and I love the clipper system. When I go out every other day I just reclip the plants. Couldn't be easier. I also have the tomatoes interspersed in the pepper plants. Removing leaves from the spent vine leaves room for the peppers to fill out. In the past I used tomato cages for indeterminant cherry tomatoes and they always ended up as a hot mess of vine especially once the plant got to the top of the trellis. At that point I would just let them go wild. I have done the wind the tomato around string method as well but found that rather finicky.🙂
When I used cages, I used two metal tent stakes, (Harbor Freight) and I never had a cage go over. Also, I cut square harvest windows low on the cage where the first set of fruits occurred. Now, I am using the Florida Weave because I am growing way too many plants to cage. Love your work! John McHatton
I always look forward to these videos. I have finally settled in on the cattle panel trellis for tomatoes. Two steel T post ten feet a leaves three feet of panel sticking by. If I grow something else the next year, the panel is not in the way as it is in the middle of the 4 foot bed and I reach two feet from either side.
Tommahooks are my go to. I have a 2m (6 foot) long ole with a hook on the end so I can reach up and unhook the tommahook. I can then unwind more twine and replace the hook on the trellis wire. Saves carting a ladder. 2 people make this method super quick. Cheers for the discussion points. Greeting from Aotearoa.
First of your videos I have seen. So impressed I subscribed. I am an engineer and your ability to solve problems makes me think you are an un-degreed engineer👍 I have been gardening 35+ years and find your input very useful. Thank you!
Another excellent video, Jesse! We use "cages" formed with "field fencing" (47" woven-wire 6X6 galvanized) with success. Initially used 6X6 concrete reinforcing wire, but it isn't galvanized and when rust forms on the wire wind movement of the plant abrades the "limb" causing problems. The galvanized wire of the field fencing remains smooth and doesn't cause this problem. Re-bar (#5) is adequate support. A t-post will support two cages provided you orient them inline with strongest expected winds. Of course, 4 feet is inadequate for indeterminate varities, but sometimes you can "lead" the plant over to taller support (a pain...). Indeterminates are undesirable for this reason, but so many heirlooms are indeterminate that controls this decision. 8ft. t-posts allow another "cage" to be wired above the first level, or just stick bamboo down in the first cage and pretend you're happy. Do this before the plant fills the cage if you know it will be necessary eventually. Dry-wallers' wearable "jacks" can be useful to increase your "reach" but take some "getting-used-to" for sure. Keep up the good work! p.s. It helps a lot ($) if you can find "bits an' pieces" of leftover fencing for free....
Love this video... I grew 153 tomato plants last year and trellised my yellow pear against a cattle panel (like Jess at Roots and Refuge) but the space they were in was too cramped... I "lost opportunities to prune" (aka... got lazy in the heat) and they became unmanageable. This year I'm going to use the high side (12" south facing) of my shed roof green house to support a tomahook lean system... but I'm putting eyebolts in at the high point to run the twine thru at the peak and lower the tomahook spool to reachable height. These plants (in theory) are going to give me shade relief inside the greenhouse during the peak summer season when I don't really have use for a greenhouse as much as I need a shadehouse. I totally get the 72" tomahook necessity! But maybe an eyebolt pass thru configuration in your top line and some sort of sheppard's hook ground anchor for the tomahook would work? I was inspired by the lowering and raising of a ship's sails. No one climbing a ladder to raise and lower a sail. If it works for me this year I may weave in and out of a 6" square net structure for following years. Also... if you're doing a Florida weave for outdoor plant rows... might as well throw up a top line between posts and cover with the plastic teepee to start them off early! Hope it helps someone!
We trellised from above previously and didn't want to py for any of those fancy bailers. We threw our string over the top support and tied a slip knot about halfway down the string. We would just slide the knot up and wrap the slack around the plant. As you pointed out, dealings with the string at the end of the year quickly became my least favorite chore. What we opt for now is a simple 1/2 inch fiberglass rebar. We steak the plants with the rebar, and wrap the plant up it as it grows.
Our local autoctonous varieties here in Puglia (so cool to see the shout out in the video) grow low to the ground and don’t require trellising or watering (after planting). I never appreciated them so much until we started growing other kinds of tomatoes - so much time and energy 😅
I love using cattle panels for indeterminate tomatoes. I am going to try the Florida weave for my romas and peppers this year. Home gardener, I'm planning on 35 tomatoes this year.😊
I like that description of buying a roll of wire and making your own cages. You could use temporary clips (or string ties) on the wire cage so in the fall you clean the vines off, unhook connectors to open, and lay the cages flat on a pallet. Maybe a second pallet on top to keep the pile tidy during transport, and store.
Glad to see you included Josh's system. I used it 1 year and it worked well but 1 string broke under the weight and also bent 1 of the EMT pieces. I guess I should have used 3/4" instead of 1/2". I use different systems based on the type of tomato I'm growing. (backyard gardener)
I live in Upstate NY. I’ve used the Johnny’s Selected Seeds Tomato Clips with fantastic success in an outdoor raised bed with a trellis made from 2x4’s. I tied twine to the ~8’ high 2x. This year I’m adding a length of aircraft cable to hang those hooks you hate… my guess is it’s going to work great. I’ll keep you posted.
Hey Jessie. Thank you for all your content man. I'm going to buy your book. I run Woodlot Farm in Robbinston, Maine. Come up to visit this season. -Nicco
Wow, I just found out you all are super close to where I live! Never would have guessed you all were in that area. I'll have to look out for you all at the farmer's markets.
Hey, ive been experimenting with a modified Florida weave. Taking pairs T posts and making a "V" shape posts going down the length of the bed rather than single rows. Then twin leadering the tomatoes to have a lead on either side of the "V" fruit are forced to hang on the underside protected from sunlight, the v shape makes for easy cultivating and addition shady bed space for summer lettuce/shade crops.
Thanks for this video. I use a 4' heavy farm fence with 5x5" square holes and attach it onto t-posts every 5' or so. The fence is approximately 18" off the ground. I plant tomatoes 1' apart and bottom prune heavily. I only grow around 100 plants, so not a huge operation. I attach plants as they grow with velcro tape...easy to apply and remove. The tape is reusable for 3 years or so..I'll see how it does this year😊. This has been my go to for 4 years. I used to use the 4x2" fencing which works but tomatoes will get stuck in the openings ruining the fruit.
Appreciate this :). I tried the FL weave once, and didn't do it prob. quite properly enough is prob. why I didn't like it as well as I thought I would ( too much sag). I've since seen & planned to do Sattin's "trellis to make u jealous" , & finally put in a short row of that last yr. . Outside. Absolutely my fave so far ! Here in WI we aren't quite as humid as often/long as KY or as much rain, (and past 2 summers had VERY little rain). But on average our tomatoes last til frost, although usually don't start til August, some, like cherry tomatoes in July I think ( home gardener & didn't pay close enough attn. I guess).
We use steel fences with square mazes, nailed in wooden poles on each end, with a steel cap on top to prevent wood rot. Works like a charm. Third year in, 0 maintenance.
I’m using the tomahooks for my cucumbers this year and building a cattle panel arched trellis for my tomatoes. I’m interested to see how this works. I tried Florida weave last year and it didn’t do well but that was my fault. I didn’t use good posts or drive them deep enough. Thanks for the content and good luck everyone.
I think that the most fun permaculture tool is the scythe. Basically solves brambles like wild berries, small trees thinner than a thumb, and wild rose bushes, but also light leafy herbs. It won't work as well against grass anymore, but it will maintain enough sharpness for thicker things as described above for a long time.
Nice concept video. I see few support option videos. Circular consumer cages tend to break at their welds too and have short lifespan. Trellis and humidity causing blight is something no one talks about. I use 3/4 EMT rather than 1/2 EMT conduit for my outdoor backyard trellis
I built a couple trellis systems for my garden using emt conduit for one, and welded rebar for the other and just tie a string down to each plant using tomato clips. Its a bit labor intensive but my indeterminates always grow 8-12 feet by the end of the season so I find it helps keep them on their path in a cheap way. Anxiously awaiting for some qlipr clones to appear though. They seem super easy and secure, it's just a lot to spend as a home grower. I am contemplating getting one per plant and starting my strings that way, and using cheap tomato clips the rest of the way. Normally I tie my string to a small stick in the ground near each plant, and that gets annoying after a while.
Just another perspective on the Tomahawks: Using them you could work in two different ways without using a letter: 1. Prepare some stick with some sort of hook at one end. I use a simple broomstick with a simple screw as a hook. With the hook you can take up the Tomahawkat at one of it's "ears". This way you can easily readjust the hooks at the wire from the ground. You also can take the hooks and the plant down to unwind some extra string for growth. Depending on the height if your greenhouse you will probably have to walk some stops back to lay out the plant a little to avoid damage. Works quite well for me for years. 2. Dig in the open end of the string during planting or fix it in any way at the ground. Afterwards, throw the tomahawk-end of the string over the wire. Then you wind in the tomahawk with the string slightly over the plant, but be be sure to wind in a way that both of the tomahawk's hooks are in contact with the string, In this way there is enough grip to hold the plant, but you can also easily move the tomahawk upwards the string to give the plant more string to grow.
Arkansas market gardener here florida weave indeterminate tomatoes is my jam. Easy picking and down here when it gets hot indeterminate becomes determinate
I use the tomahooks and clips. I've been doing that for some time now. I have tomatoes in a tunnel from Farmers Friend. I end up with 60+ along down the length each year.
If you were to make a double row trellis system, you could potentially cover it with a shade cloth mid summer which could drastically increase the length of your outdoor tomato season. I would suggest your issue is likely with heat rather than humidity. I want to try this myself but it may not happen this year as I'm going to have so many expenses outdoors already.
Have you seen Neversink Farm's hook & wicket trellising system? Expensive up front, but the advantage is that the wickets keep the plants off the ground. This system also uses the foam clips on metal stems, a great innovation.
Jesse, you mentioned a few times about the need for a ladder ... how about using drops from the greenhouse tubing to run new tubes at reachable heights and then hook the trellis gear to them. High enough you don't bang your hat on them but low enough to just reach up and there it is. Something like the "Trellis to be Jealous" but from the sky not the ground. Of course, the fun way would be drywall stilts but that is problematic and encourages dressing up for town festivals/parades ...
We are in dry climate, 155 days frost free on average growing 160 row feet outdoors split between cucumbers and tomatoes. For us, Josh’s system of tall T posts with metal conduit in pvc fittings works by far the best with the added benefit that hail netting is easily draped over the top because we get killer hail from time to time. Am using 1/2” conduit but wish I’d used 3/4” as heavy crop will bend the 1/2” so I double up the 1/2 “ as needed. I tried Florida weave but for our biggish but not commercial garden I just didn’t see a net work reduction.
I've done the Florida weave the past few years and didn't love it. I'm going to try a row with cattle panel and a row with "a trellis to make you jealous" this year and see what I think.
We have 40 cages stacked in 20. Takes up 4 ft of space for storage not bad at all. My 9 year daughter carries stacks of 10 at a time. We do use different trellises depending on the type. We grow tomatoes year around here in Southern California.
I don’t know if this is the universe telling me to start a farm or what, but how did a google search on how to start a new garden plot 2 years ago turn into hyper-specific recommendations for farming in my area? I’m in central New Hampshire and have been listening to the podcasts at work to distract myself from burnout and everyday I have Jesse whispering in my ear to quit and start a farm. Need local compost? No worries, Vermont Compost is an hour away. Seeds? Johnny’s and Maine Potato Lady are already acclimated to my area. Greenhouse? No problem, Rimol is just down the road. Extension help? (glances towards Natalie) Internships/farm tours, hello Frith Farm! All I can say is THANK YOU, the No-Till Growers team has been a lifesaver for keeping me sane at work while dreaming about getting my hands in the dirt!
My tomatoes grow up cattle panels incorporated into a natural tree branch style overhead roofing or trellising, whatever you want to call it. Other types, such as pumpkins, cucumbers etc, are planted with corn and sunflowers to provide shade and stability for the plants. Lastly, some grow on infrastructure fencing like chain link, sometimes to intentionally give the chooks a shady place to sleep, dust bathe, and nibble all day on healthy snacks and bugs.
Last year I used the hooks with twine, and the plastic clips. It worked great. I underestimated the weight that I could hang on my trellis wire, and when it broke, and 50ft row of 6ft tall tomato plants fell. Luckily, most of the plants were fine. My recommendation, make sure your top trellis wire can hold alot of weight. Tomatoes are heavy!
Good stuff, as always!! I think it was Charles Dowding I saw, have the string up at planting and just bury it under the plant as you go, might save time.
9:21 just want to add that the primary reason for letting tomatoes sprawl across the ground is because their vines lay adventitious roots all along their length, making much more vigorous and prolific plants, though admittedly, much harder harvests.
I really like the idea of letting tomatoes run rampant. After all, they're not a vine but a creeper so it is their natural habit but where I am, it is simply not viable because: humid tropics. The ones that do best here are hardy cherry tomatoes but they're still not great swimmers, exception made if the ground is really sandy which tends to keep a lot of the damaging fauna and flora off of them even with consistent rain. Cheers
My tomatoes take up about an area of 12'*42' I constructed a couple of end panels, and a middle support, to carry 4 lengths of 3/16" steel cable. I'm going with 4 rows in this space, and 2 inside pathways. Running sissel to the ground and going to go half and half single or double leader up the rope. Should be able to turn this set up into a shade structure as well in july and August
I use tomahook style outdoor. I like indeterminants for my backyard so I eat them all summer long. If I grow determinants I would either florida weave or let them sprall on the ground lol. Always looking for cheap easy garden food in limited spaces, if it costs too much or is too much work or takes too much space I will get it out of the store wile grumbling how much better it would taste if i grew it lol.
I have a multi purpose, hobby tunnel and did an experiment with my gardening class last spring planting tomatoes at different and laid one over on its side for more root growth. Then we ran a string up to the perlin . I just wrapped the tomato spirally around the string and it did just fine. It did outgrow the area and folded back down on itself, but for someone who doesn’t do it for money, it was fine. Plus, they were Cherry tomatoes that just kept going when they folded down. What if you use the wing shaped attachment hanging down from the support enough for you to reach it? Like you’d have to drop it with some more string or a bungee cord, but it would be reachable? And cheap?
In the hoop house, we use clips and string. Outside I use elevated cattle panels on 10ft t posts. Also I'm trying to teach my dad about no til and living soil, I was wondering if your book is available in spanish
Hey just a quick comment, are farm tours still available? I was hoping to have time off this summer to come visit the farm and start doing this myself soon. Let me know! Thanks
Would Velcro ties work with a pole (that has sticky outy bits to stop them slipping down)? It could make disassembly a lot easier, and allow for reuse over several seasons.
How does the QLIPR system work when tomatoes are tall? We currently use the rollerhook for our lower and lean tomatoes. The wires they hang from are 12' about the ground. The lowest fruit is usually just a foot or two above the ground with the tip of the plant almost reaching the top. I don't see how I would be able to use the QLIPR without a ladder as the top of the plant is so tall.
I do the attach to a fencing panel held up with posts. I am on sandy soil in a wet and windy location so most other options are not ideal. undercover tomatoes are grown with a string down. I am also short season (june to Sept) so I don't have plants outgrowing my space.
I am surprised that you didn't mention plastic trellises like the "Toolazy Plastic Garden Trellis Netting Bulk Roll 59''x328' Heavy-Duty Garden Netting for Climbing Plants,Garden Melons Vegetables, Grape Racks, Hydroponic." I too have tried tomato cages (ok but labor intensive to make and setup and take down), bailing string and clips (way to labor intensive) and PVC piping with T-posts (blows over in wind, pvc too flexible bends and breaks with weight). So far with plastic garden trellis tied between t-posts, the tomato plants at 2.5' tall now are practically interweaving themselves in the trellising with occasional encouragement, and easy setup with t-posts/zip ties and practically hands growing off if plants are mulched well with free wood chips from the electric companies tree trimming services. I am using it for cucumbers, sugar snap peas and bean vines, so far all work great. The key I think is to space your t-posts appropriately, depending on the amount of weight you expect to have pulling down on the trellising. I spaced my t-posts too far for this years peas, and they unexpectedly grew 6' tall and 2' thick which is too much weight for the trellis on the t-posts spaced at around 25'. However, a quick solution is to go cut some tree limbs in woods and add them as support in between t-posts, fastening vertically with zip ties every couple feet up and down, for extra trellis support as needed. I did like your idea of Florida weave, which I may use for tomatoes if they gat too unwieldy on trellises late in season, as well as using it for pepper plants, which I currently stake and fasten to round steel electric fence posts (rebar) which you can purchase for a couple $$ each at the Farmer's Co-Op and should last a lifetime. Thanks for all the ideas! Sincerely, Tod
Tried the weave last year. Will be going back to cages because weave is too much work for 9 plants and doesn't hold branches as well. Ideally, heavy-duty collapsable cages would be best for small growers
I'm surprised you didn't mention growing on cattle panels for a trellis. Vertical, horizontal, or as a tunnel, they work great. That's how most gardeners I know grow them here in Iowa.
Crazy question, would twist ties work with tomahooks? I use twist ties and jute twine in my home garden. I can see making my own momahooks pretty easily...
Always good information. I'm curious about your thoughts on landrace growing. I feel it has its own marketable benefits. I certainly can see the downsides in having a less homogenous/known product in markets.
I grow tomatoes on the ground. Every week i roll them over from side to side. Works well enough from all aspects for basically zero effort. Im not market gardening though. I do sometimes break plants or whatever 🤷
Hey buddy How about comparing neversink farm style with jm type of clips I personally think neversink operates best but might be expensive initially Any thoughts on what I said above.
I’m a backyard farmer, only been doing it for less than a year now but I’ve had two attempts at Tomatoes so far. The tomatoes have been so good and flavorful but I find that only the first 8-12 blossoms take. The tomatoes grow great and healthy but all the other blossoms that shoot after those first 8-12 on each tree always dry up and fall off. Anyone have some advice on this? Is it typical? Am I lacking nutrients in my soil to keep the plants growing healthy for an extended period of time? I’m in a sub tropical climate, please help.
I had a friend whose plants would drop blossoms if her greenhouse got too hot. Maybe that? It's hard to know without all the details. Try growing in different spots, adding shade or adding lots of flowers to draw pollinators. Good luck!
I don't know what I'll do outside. We're fairly dry but REALLY windy and even if I get my windbreak fence up, it's only 120cm high... I also work alone, am not tall or that strong, so posts are a challenge... Plus I started SO MANY TOMATOES. Hmmmm. Probably some sort of lower version of Florida weave. Inside, string from above works well for me and I have random ones just tied to my panel fences, usually with long bits of sedge grass, which is super tough and grows all around.
You'll only get a couple years out of the 2x4's. Your stake end will rot out pretty fast. And you'll want to avoid using pressure treated. Don't want those chemicals in the soil that's growing food. T-posts will last for decades.
Hey all! Loads of great comments. I don't have time this week to get to them, but a couple themes: 1) the hook and wicket system that Neversink sells can help reduce stress on the tunnel and on the plants. I see no issues with that. The trellis part though is just the same QLIPR system (you can also use tomahooks etc). Will have some DIY hook and wicket content soon as well so 👀 . 2) I have not used cattle panels which is why I didn't include them. They're not cheap or light, but it is a one-time purchase so that will help make it affordable over time. If it works for you--awesome! And 3) tying off a string and training the plants is fine too but eventually, in a tunnel at least, you will run out of string and have to tie new string on. Not a big deal on a small scale but on a production scale would not be ideal (I tried it years ago). Thanks y'all!
I'm in South Carolina and I have probably the most bizarre tomato growing system I have ever seen. I basically break all the conventional rules because it works for my context. I can get a local potting mix that is certified organic for around $200 dollars a pallet, as the guy who owns the business is a buddy of mine. I fill around 200 three gallon buckets with said potting mix and set them in a field covered with black plastic mulch. I then use the Florida Weave system to trellis them. I plant them out way early, generally around late March and cover them with Agribon when they are still small in case for freak freezes. To put things in context, I already have small tomatoes on all my plants and it is April 21st. We get a big first flush of tomatoes by the first week of June, enough to where I make around $6-10 dollars per plant, with my overhead being around $2 dollars per plant. Then I terminate the crop. This is why I only use 3 gallon buckets. Everyone says 5 is the minimum you should use, but that is if you want a plant all season. I'm doing determinate tomatoes, getting the first wave, and then chopping. Otherwise disease will start to hit anyways, so what is the point?
We take the leftover potting mix, which is around 600 gallons, rejuvenate it with composted chicken manure, and then fill 60 ten gallon grow bags with the mix. We then plant 1 mini love watermelon in each grow bag and it is off to the races. The 60 mini love watermelons grow in the field that is covered in black plastic and we harvest them by the end of July. Then we empty all the pots, rejuvenate with both perlite (didn't use this first time) and more compost, and put it back into the original 200 3 gallon buckets. We then grow beans in the buckets. The beans finish in about mid-September. We empty all the bags, add more chicken compost, and refill the 200 3 gallon buckets. Then about mid-September I plant 200 Castle Dome broccoli plants (earliest heading broccoli that is dwarf) in each of the buckets. This is how you grow in containers for profit. The next spring I dump all the leftover potting mix on top of my beds and grow lettuce and leafy greens in those beds for a few seasons. You could keep refilling the buckets with a different crop if you want. It's like an infinite loop of potting mix. Works very well.
Wala.
wow!
Well done.
I love watching you on Sunday morning and I really LOVE your book. Thank you so much for being an excellent steward of Mother Earth and for all of the effort I know you put into to your videos. I’ve learned so much from you! Keep growing!!
Awe amazing thank you!
Great video. You can save time by not tying your tomatoes to the string. Lay the string in the planting hole and place tomato on top. Plant as usual. Now your string is secure and ready for trellising. Love watching your videos. So much great information and your personality makes them fun. Your book is on my wish list. Hope to purchase soon.
I like to use cattle panels on t-posts...BUT, I have extra plants this year and no more cattle panels. I've never tried the Florida weave, but will be trying it this year. Thanks for the great explanation!
I made a bunch of 'tomahooks' out of metal hangers that I cut and bent them used a huge roll of twine I bought to string them (this was years ago when they were more expensive and I was super cheap lol). That gave me something to do in the winter sitting by the fire (we don't have TV so we work on projects or read etc in the evenings.)
Love your book, Thank you Farmer Jesse.
We do not market garden, we grow for ourselves, family, and friends. We grow our maters in a hoop house, and use paracord tied to the cross members above. The lower end we plant in the hole with the tomato start or the seed. As the plant grows, we wrap it around the paracord. Works fine for our small plantings of 6-12 plants. After the season, we cut off the vines, kind of roll up the paracord, and leave it tied to the cross members. We find the paracord lasts for about 3 or 4 seasons. One tip: do NOT use reflective paracord, b/c it'll look like hornworm in the UV light! Oy.
Home gardener here. I have a permanent bed with a T-shaped trellis made of 16'x50" cattle panels. The 16' is the horizontal axis placed about 18-24" above the soil line so the top is around 6 feet tall. As the tomatoes grow I push the vines through the opening front to back/back to front. No tying. For the really tall ones I just let them ramble across the top of T.
One could use cattle panels or remesh panels or coils and attach them to T-posts 2' off the ground. This gives you 6' of height that's supported. The posts need to be secure but the panels/remesh are rigid and can extend above the posts. You will need to weave the plants through the holes but I only use every third hole or so (about 18") not back forth through each one. Weave is a generous term, I just shove them through but again, home gardener.
Cattle panels last forever, are $25 at Tractor Supply. Remesh panels are lighter and thinner but not plated so it's rusty. They both store flat and are so danged useful. Remesh rolls that are usually cut and used for individual cages can be rolled up at the end of the season for one fat roll instead of a bunch of separate ones. Basically it's one long fence that you weave the plants through. It's not for everyone but I thought it might help someone or spark an idea that works for you.
Do you have any pictures of this?
@@jjwerning I do but I don't know how I'd get them to you. I can try to give a better description if that helps.
@@jjwerning I found this-it's the video that inspired me to build my T trellis. ruclips.net/video/Nwi8ZCiCWiI/видео.html Charles has passed on but his channel is still there and he has an amazing garden. Here's a different style ruclips.net/video/xaSbRpWciVM/видео.html
This is another option for a cattle panel trellis ruclips.net/video/Nwi8ZCiCWiI/видео.html
My tomato trellis is most like the first one. The only changes I made was I cut longer pieces of top rail and slipped them over the posts so they go all the way to the ground. I also mounted the vertical cattle panels higher, up to the top of the posts just under the horizontal cross pieces. The gap is now at the bottom so the plants get a couple of feet tall before I start threading them through. Throughout the season I just push the vines through every third opening or so. No tying needed. When they get tall I just let them run across the top. I also plant pole beans under the vertical panel and let them do their thing.
Lastly, I attached the panels with worm gear clamps. The vertical panel is hung from the horizontal one up top and attached to the posts. This ties the whole structure together.
It's been up for years and it's still sturdy.
I used chain link fence top rail and connectors. The last video uses EMT and Maker Pipe connectors. That may be a more cost effective option and they have a variety of connectors to give you more flexibility.
Hope this helps.
Well done!
I grow my tomato plants on woven wire fences. I just tie the branches to the fence as they grow. I use drippers to water the plants and I space my plants 4 ft. apart. I mulch my plants heavily.
Since I don't till, I leave the fencing in place from year to year. I grow a lot of my vegetables on the fences.
Im in Wisconsin, zone 4 and I've grown all types of tomatoes for over 3 decades and tried several types of trellising but I've found that the tomatoes are happier, healthier and ripen faster just sprawling across clean, warm mulch. It is more difficult to harvest them though, especially as I age. Also, just before a frost, I harvest all tomatoes and ripen them indoors on a table. They continue to ripen until January to March, keeping me in fresh tomatoes over winter.
I'm gonna try this. Thanks for the tip!
I agree! That's exactly what I do. I'm in Alberta, Canada (zone 2).
I tried tomatoes with out trellis this year over weed barrier. I planted enough to accept the loses, but next year I will be trellising; I just had too many rodent and disease problems.
I grow outside and have used cages, Florida weave, hanging string and my favorite is cattle panels. Cattle panels are very strong and easy to move. I attach them to the Tee posts straight down the row. If you use 7 or 8 ft Tee posts the panels can be raised up giving more air flow at the bottom and more height overall. On indeterminate toms all I do is tie the vine sideways along the top. My second favorite is the Florida weave. As always thanks for all the information and insight.
Was surprised that he didn't mention this or similar solid rolled out metal or plastic net options! We use the biodegradable clips and leave the tomato residue up over the winter till it's crispy and easier to break off the trellis.
I built a 30-ft cattle panel tunnel and have used it for tomatoes. However, I'm moving to steel wire trellis for tomatoes and reserving the tunnel for peas and green beans.
Also attach a couple gutters on the inside of the tunnel for planting strawberries, lettuce and radishes.
@@sociopathmercenary good idea
Yup, I started using this system last year. Good air flow, minimal maintenance of the plants because they can weave in and out. System will last a long time.
Yes to cattle panels. Moving can be hard when rotating crops, but I plant other crops leaving panels in place. Also the panels can be used as the structure for covering your plants against the weather.
About twelve years ago we invested in some heavy duty folding tomato cages. VERY pleased with them and we still have all thirty of them and they are still very functional. Our tomato growing season lasts from early June until almost November. We plant indeterminate tomatoes and often times they will be well over ten feet tall. This year we are going to try the tomahook system on double leaders. Hopefully it will make managing the tomato plants much easier as well as less disease and easier harvesting .......................... fingers crossed! As always Thank You for yet another informative and fun video!
Do you know the brand? Heavy duty folding cages are ideal for home growers, but most of the ones you can buy are flimsy
I am growing 6 tomato plants and 6 cucumber plants outdoors in a raised bed and I love the clipper system. When I go out every other day I just reclip the plants. Couldn't be easier. I also have the tomatoes interspersed in the pepper plants. Removing leaves from the spent vine leaves room for the peppers to fill out. In the past I used tomato cages for indeterminant cherry tomatoes and they always ended up as a hot mess of vine especially once the plant got to the top of the trellis. At that point I would just let them go wild. I have done the wind the tomato around string method as well but found that rather finicky.🙂
Nice! We decided to try the florida weave this summer, our plants are outdoors and we don’t get as much rain so we use soaker hoses.
When I used cages, I used two metal tent stakes, (Harbor Freight) and I never had a cage go over. Also, I cut square harvest windows low on the cage where the first set of fruits occurred. Now, I am using the Florida Weave because I am growing way too many plants to cage. Love your work!
John McHatton
I always look forward to these videos. I have finally settled in on the cattle panel trellis for tomatoes. Two steel T post ten feet a leaves three feet of panel sticking by. If I grow something else the next year, the panel is not in the way as it is in the middle of the 4 foot bed and I reach two feet from either side.
As a new gardener, I appreciate all these tips down to the twine. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us! Off to help stake my tomatoes! 🍅
Thanks!
Awe amazing thank you!
Tommahooks are my go to. I have a 2m (6 foot) long ole with a hook on the end so I can reach up and unhook the tommahook. I can then unwind more twine and replace the hook on the trellis wire. Saves carting a ladder. 2 people make this method super quick.
Cheers for the discussion points.
Greeting from Aotearoa.
First of your videos I have seen. So impressed I subscribed. I am an engineer and your ability to solve problems makes me think you are an un-degreed engineer👍 I have been gardening 35+ years and find your input very useful. Thank you!
Another excellent video, Jesse! We use "cages" formed with "field fencing" (47" woven-wire 6X6 galvanized) with success. Initially used 6X6 concrete reinforcing wire, but it isn't galvanized and when rust forms on the wire wind movement of the plant abrades the "limb" causing problems. The galvanized wire of the field fencing remains smooth and doesn't cause this problem. Re-bar (#5) is adequate support. A t-post will support two cages provided you orient them inline with strongest expected winds. Of course, 4 feet is inadequate for indeterminate varities, but sometimes you can "lead" the plant over to taller support (a pain...). Indeterminates are undesirable for this reason, but so many heirlooms are indeterminate that controls this decision. 8ft. t-posts allow another "cage" to be wired above the first level, or just stick bamboo down in the first cage and pretend you're happy. Do this before the plant fills the cage if you know it will be necessary eventually. Dry-wallers' wearable "jacks" can be useful to increase your "reach" but take some "getting-used-to" for sure.
Keep up the good work! p.s. It helps a lot ($) if you can find "bits an' pieces" of leftover fencing for free....
I always look for your videos Sunday morning. Your videos are always so motivating with excellent information and love the quirky jokes. 😊
Your channel has been absolutely invaluable to my wife and I as we are starting our farm. Thanks a lot!
Love this video... I grew 153 tomato plants last year and trellised my yellow pear against a cattle panel (like Jess at Roots and Refuge) but the space they were in was too cramped... I "lost opportunities to prune" (aka... got lazy in the heat) and they became unmanageable. This year I'm going to use the high side (12" south facing) of my shed roof green house to support a tomahook lean system... but I'm putting eyebolts in at the high point to run the twine thru at the peak and lower the tomahook spool to reachable height. These plants (in theory) are going to give me shade relief inside the greenhouse during the peak summer season when I don't really have use for a greenhouse as much as I need a shadehouse. I totally get the 72" tomahook necessity! But maybe an eyebolt pass thru configuration in your top line and some sort of sheppard's hook ground anchor for the tomahook would work? I was inspired by the lowering and raising of a ship's sails. No one climbing a ladder to raise and lower a sail. If it works for me this year I may weave in and out of a 6" square net structure for following years.
Also... if you're doing a Florida weave for outdoor plant rows... might as well throw up a top line between posts and cover with the plastic teepee to start them off early! Hope it helps someone!
We trellised from above previously and didn't want to py for any of those fancy bailers. We threw our string over the top support and tied a slip knot about halfway down the string. We would just slide the knot up and wrap the slack around the plant. As you pointed out, dealings with the string at the end of the year quickly became my least favorite chore. What we opt for now is a simple 1/2 inch fiberglass rebar. We steak the plants with the rebar, and wrap the plant up it as it grows.
Our local autoctonous varieties here in Puglia (so cool to see the shout out in the video) grow low to the ground and don’t require trellising or watering (after planting). I never appreciated them so much until we started growing other kinds of tomatoes - so much time and energy 😅
I love using cattle panels for indeterminate tomatoes. I am going to try the Florida weave for my romas and peppers this year. Home gardener, I'm planning on 35 tomatoes this year.😊
I like that description of buying a roll of wire and making your own cages. You could use temporary clips (or string ties) on the wire cage so in the fall you clean the vines off, unhook connectors to open, and lay the cages flat on a pallet. Maybe a second pallet on top to keep the pile tidy during transport, and store.
Glad to see you included Josh's system. I used it 1 year and it worked well but 1 string broke under the weight and also bent 1 of the EMT pieces. I guess I should have used 3/4" instead of 1/2". I use different systems based on the type of tomato I'm growing. (backyard gardener)
I live in Upstate NY. I’ve used the Johnny’s Selected Seeds Tomato Clips with fantastic success in an outdoor raised bed with a trellis made from 2x4’s. I tied twine to the ~8’ high 2x. This year I’m adding a length of aircraft cable to hang those hooks you hate… my guess is it’s going to work great. I’ll keep you posted.
Hey Jessie. Thank you for all your content man. I'm going to buy your book. I run Woodlot Farm in Robbinston, Maine. Come up to visit this season.
-Nicco
Wow, I just found out you all are super close to where I live! Never would have guessed you all were in that area. I'll have to look out for you all at the farmer's markets.
Hey, ive been experimenting with a modified Florida weave. Taking pairs T posts and making a "V" shape posts going down the length of the bed rather than single rows. Then twin leadering the tomatoes to have a lead on either side of the "V" fruit are forced to hang on the underside protected from sunlight, the v shape makes for easy cultivating and addition shady bed space for summer lettuce/shade crops.
Thanks for this video. I use a 4' heavy farm fence with 5x5" square holes and attach it onto t-posts every 5' or so. The fence is approximately 18" off the ground. I plant tomatoes 1' apart and bottom prune heavily. I only grow around 100 plants, so not a huge operation. I attach plants as they grow with velcro tape...easy to apply and remove. The tape is reusable for 3 years or so..I'll see how it does this year😊. This has been my go to for 4 years. I used to use the 4x2" fencing which works but tomatoes will get stuck in the openings ruining the fruit.
We are on our way to Kentucky. Can’t wait for Tuesday!
Appreciate this :). I tried the FL weave once, and didn't do it prob. quite properly enough is prob. why I didn't like it as well as I thought I would ( too much sag). I've since seen & planned to do Sattin's "trellis to make u jealous" , & finally put in a short row of that last yr. . Outside. Absolutely my fave so far ! Here in WI we aren't quite as humid as often/long as KY or as much rain, (and past 2 summers had VERY little rain). But on average our tomatoes last til frost, although usually don't start til August, some, like cherry tomatoes in July I think ( home gardener & didn't pay close enough attn. I guess).
Awww baby nerd 🤓🍼. I see a Tomato trellis project in my future. Thank you for the great video.
We use steel fences with square mazes, nailed in wooden poles on each end, with a steel cap on top to prevent wood rot. Works like a charm. Third year in, 0 maintenance.
I’m using the tomahooks for my cucumbers this year and building a cattle panel arched trellis for my tomatoes. I’m interested to see how this works. I tried Florida weave last year and it didn’t do well but that was my fault. I didn’t use good posts or drive them deep enough. Thanks for the content and good luck everyone.
I think that the most fun permaculture tool is the scythe. Basically solves brambles like wild berries, small trees thinner than a thumb, and wild rose bushes, but also light leafy herbs. It won't work as well against grass anymore, but it will maintain enough sharpness for thicker things as described above for a long time.
Thanks Jesse.👍👍 Excellent information.
Super Thanks from Crossville, Tennessee!
Awe amazing thank you!
Nice concept video. I see few support option videos. Circular consumer cages tend to break at their welds too and have short lifespan. Trellis and humidity causing blight is something no one talks about. I use 3/4 EMT rather than 1/2 EMT conduit for my outdoor backyard trellis
I built a couple trellis systems for my garden using emt conduit for one, and welded rebar for the other and just tie a string down to each plant using tomato clips. Its a bit labor intensive but my indeterminates always grow 8-12 feet by the end of the season so I find it helps keep them on their path in a cheap way.
Anxiously awaiting for some qlipr clones to appear though. They seem super easy and secure, it's just a lot to spend as a home grower. I am contemplating getting one per plant and starting my strings that way, and using cheap tomato clips the rest of the way. Normally I tie my string to a small stick in the ground near each plant, and that gets annoying after a while.
Just another perspective on the Tomahawks: Using them you could work in two different ways without using a letter:
1. Prepare some stick with some sort of hook at one end. I use a simple broomstick with a simple screw as a hook. With the hook you can take up the Tomahawkat at one of it's "ears". This way you can easily readjust the hooks at the wire from the ground. You also can take the hooks and the plant down to unwind some extra string for growth. Depending on the height if your greenhouse you will probably have to walk some stops back to lay out the plant a little to avoid damage. Works quite well for me for years.
2. Dig in the open end of the string during planting or fix it in any way at the ground. Afterwards, throw the tomahawk-end of the string over the wire. Then you wind in the tomahawk with the string slightly over the plant, but be be sure to wind in a way that both of the tomahawk's hooks are in contact with the string, In this way there is enough grip to hold the plant, but you can also easily move the tomahawk upwards the string to give the plant more string to grow.
Arkansas market gardener here florida weave indeterminate tomatoes is my jam. Easy picking and down here when it gets hot indeterminate becomes determinate
I use the tomahooks and clips. I've been doing that for some time now. I have tomatoes in a tunnel from Farmers Friend. I end up with 60+ along down the length each year.
If you were to make a double row trellis system, you could potentially cover it with a shade cloth mid summer which could drastically increase the length of your outdoor tomato season. I would suggest your issue is likely with heat rather than humidity. I want to try this myself but it may not happen this year as I'm going to have so many expenses outdoors already.
I have had really good use out of the bootstrap farmer clips holding up for multiple seasons.
Have you seen Neversink Farm's hook & wicket trellising system? Expensive up front, but the advantage is that the wickets keep the plants off the ground. This system also uses the foam clips on metal stems, a great innovation.
This is the way
Jesse, you mentioned a few times about the need for a ladder ... how about using drops from the greenhouse tubing to run new tubes at reachable heights and then hook the trellis gear to them. High enough you don't bang your hat on them but low enough to just reach up and there it is. Something like the "Trellis to be Jealous" but from the sky not the ground. Of course, the fun way would be drywall stilts but that is problematic and encourages dressing up for town festivals/parades ...
Great information as always
We are in dry climate, 155 days frost free on average growing 160 row feet outdoors split between cucumbers and tomatoes. For us, Josh’s system of tall T posts with metal conduit in pvc fittings works by far the best with the added benefit that hail netting is easily draped over the top because we get killer hail from time to time. Am using 1/2” conduit but wish I’d used 3/4” as heavy crop will bend the 1/2” so I double up the 1/2 “ as needed. I tried Florida weave but for our biggish but not commercial garden I just didn’t see a net work reduction.
I was just telling my favorite greenhouse sales clerk that i wish someone would do a detailed trellesing video 😊
Thanks Jesse!
I've done the Florida weave the past few years and didn't love it. I'm going to try a row with cattle panel and a row with "a trellis to make you jealous" this year and see what I think.
We have 40 cages stacked in 20. Takes up 4 ft of space for storage not bad at all. My 9 year daughter carries stacks of 10 at a time. We do use different trellises depending on the type. We grow tomatoes year around here in Southern California.
We use old t-shirts cut in straps. Works great.
I don’t know if this is the universe telling me to start a farm or what, but how did a google search on how to start a new garden plot 2 years ago turn into hyper-specific recommendations for farming in my area? I’m in central New Hampshire and have been listening to the podcasts at work to distract myself from burnout and everyday I have Jesse whispering in my ear to quit and start a farm. Need local compost? No worries, Vermont Compost is an hour away. Seeds? Johnny’s and Maine Potato Lady are already acclimated to my area. Greenhouse? No problem, Rimol is just down the road. Extension help? (glances towards Natalie) Internships/farm tours, hello Frith Farm! All I can say is THANK YOU, the No-Till Growers team has been a lifesaver for keeping me sane at work while dreaming about getting my hands in the dirt!
Start the farm Sarah
My tomatoes grow up cattle panels incorporated into a natural tree branch style overhead roofing or trellising, whatever you want to call it.
Other types, such as pumpkins, cucumbers etc, are planted with corn and sunflowers to provide shade and stability for the plants.
Lastly, some grow on infrastructure fencing like chain link, sometimes to intentionally give the chooks a shady place to sleep, dust bathe, and nibble all day on healthy snacks and bugs.
Last year I used the hooks with twine, and the plastic clips. It worked great. I underestimated the weight that I could hang on my trellis wire, and when it broke, and 50ft row of 6ft tall tomato plants fell. Luckily, most of the plants were fine. My recommendation, make sure your top trellis wire can hold alot of weight. Tomatoes are heavy!
Good stuff, as always!! I think it was Charles Dowding I saw, have the string up at planting and just bury it under the plant as you go, might save time.
I just zip-tied some cattle panel to T-posts. I weave the young plants through the panel or tie them with twine.
Them "zip ties" will break your heart come a good wind storm. 'Specially the white ones...
9:21 just want to add that the primary reason for letting tomatoes sprawl across the ground is because their vines lay adventitious roots all along their length, making much more vigorous and prolific plants, though admittedly, much harder harvests.
I like using tpost and cattlepanel attached vertical about 8"above the soil. As they grow I tie them or weave them
The only issue I have had with sisal twine is it degrades too fast. I've preferred using unbleached cotton twine for that reason.
I really like the idea of letting tomatoes run rampant. After all, they're not a vine but a creeper so it is their natural habit but where I am, it is simply not viable because: humid tropics. The ones that do best here are hardy cherry tomatoes but they're still not great swimmers, exception made if the ground is really sandy which tends to keep a lot of the damaging fauna and flora off of them even with consistent rain. Cheers
My tomatoes take up about an area of 12'*42'
I constructed a couple of end panels, and a middle support, to carry 4 lengths of 3/16" steel cable.
I'm going with 4 rows in this space, and 2 inside pathways.
Running sissel to the ground and going to go half and half single or double leader up the rope.
Should be able to turn this set up into a shade structure as well in july and August
I use tomahook style outdoor. I like indeterminants for my backyard so I eat them all summer long. If I grow determinants I would either florida weave or let them sprall on the ground lol. Always looking for cheap easy garden food in limited spaces, if it costs too much or is too much work or takes too much space I will get it out of the store wile grumbling how much better it would taste if i grew it lol.
I have a multi purpose, hobby tunnel and did an experiment with my gardening class last spring planting tomatoes at different and laid one over on its side for more root growth. Then we ran a string up to the perlin . I just wrapped the tomato spirally around the string and it did just fine. It did outgrow the area and folded back down on itself, but for someone who doesn’t do it for money, it was fine. Plus, they were Cherry tomatoes that just kept going when they folded down.
What if you use the wing shaped attachment hanging down from the support enough for you to reach it? Like you’d have to drop it with some more string or a bungee cord, but it would be reachable? And cheap?
In the hoop house, we use clips and string. Outside I use elevated cattle panels on 10ft t posts.
Also I'm trying to teach my dad about no til and living soil, I was wondering if your book is available in spanish
Hey just a quick comment, are farm tours still available? I was hoping to have time off this summer to come visit the farm and start doing this myself soon.
Let me know! Thanks
Would Velcro ties work with a pole (that has sticky outy bits to stop them slipping down)? It could make disassembly a lot easier, and allow for reuse over several seasons.
Great video Jesse!
How does the QLIPR system work when tomatoes are tall? We currently use the rollerhook for our lower and lean tomatoes. The wires they hang from are 12' about the ground. The lowest fruit is usually just a foot or two above the ground with the tip of the plant almost reaching the top. I don't see how I would be able to use the QLIPR without a ladder as the top of the plant is so tall.
I do the attach to a fencing panel held up with posts. I am on sandy soil in a wet and windy location so most other options are not ideal. undercover tomatoes are grown with a string down. I am also short season (june to Sept) so I don't have plants outgrowing my space.
I like sisal twine and I compost it with the tomato vines
I am surprised that you didn't mention plastic trellises like the "Toolazy Plastic Garden Trellis Netting Bulk Roll 59''x328' Heavy-Duty Garden Netting for Climbing Plants,Garden Melons Vegetables, Grape Racks, Hydroponic." I too have tried tomato cages (ok but labor intensive to make and setup and take down), bailing string and clips (way to labor intensive) and PVC piping with T-posts (blows over in wind, pvc too flexible bends and breaks with weight). So far with plastic garden trellis tied between t-posts, the tomato plants at 2.5' tall now are practically interweaving themselves in the trellising with occasional encouragement, and easy setup with t-posts/zip ties and practically hands growing off if plants are mulched well with free wood chips from the electric companies tree trimming services. I am using it for cucumbers, sugar snap peas and bean vines, so far all work great. The key I think is to space your t-posts appropriately, depending on the amount of weight you expect to have pulling down on the trellising. I spaced my t-posts too far for this years peas, and they unexpectedly grew 6' tall and 2' thick which is too much weight for the trellis on the t-posts spaced at around 25'. However, a quick solution is to go cut some tree limbs in woods and add them as support in between t-posts, fastening vertically with zip ties every couple feet up and down, for extra trellis support as needed. I did like your idea of Florida weave, which I may use for tomatoes if they gat too unwieldy on trellises late in season, as well as using it for pepper plants, which I currently stake and fasten to round steel electric fence posts (rebar) which you can purchase for a couple $$ each at the Farmer's Co-Op and should last a lifetime. Thanks for all the ideas! Sincerely, Tod
I love ALL No-Till Growers videos!
Tried the weave last year. Will be going back to cages because weave is too much work for 9 plants and doesn't hold branches as well. Ideally, heavy-duty collapsable cages would be best for small growers
I'm surprised you didn't mention growing on cattle panels for a trellis. Vertical, horizontal, or as a tunnel, they work great. That's how most gardeners I know grow them here in Iowa.
excellent video.
Use copper sprays as you transplant and the day after any heavy rains to avoid most of the fungal problems with tomatoes
Wow I caught this as it dropped
I'm excited to grow Brads Atomic Grape tomatoes from baker creek
Thanks for the ideas Jesse!
Seedlings growing strong!
Baker creek seeds go bad so fast even in ideal storage conditions and have poor germination rates, I dont recommend them
Thanks where do you go to get your seeds ?
70% germ on a pack of jimmy Nardellos from 2020 I personally haven't had issues with baker creek
Crazy question, would twist ties work with tomahooks?
I use twist ties and jute twine in my home garden.
I can see making my own momahooks pretty easily...
Great ideas. Thanks
@notillgrowers where do you source your sisal twine?
Who knew? The next thing he'll invent is the dunk!
Appreciate y'all.
Appreciate the content
Always good information. I'm curious about your thoughts on landrace growing. I feel it has its own marketable benefits. I certainly can see the downsides in having a less homogenous/known product in markets.
I grow tomatoes on the ground. Every week i roll them over from side to side. Works well enough from all aspects for basically zero effort.
Im not market gardening though. I do sometimes break plants or whatever 🤷
It seems that a bit of wire bending play is in order to make those long Toma-hooks things.
Hey buddy
How about comparing neversink farm style with jm type of clips
I personally think neversink operates best but might be expensive initially
Any thoughts on what I said above.
If you've never tried it burying the string under the root ball when you transplant is better than tying to the base imo.
I’m a backyard farmer, only been doing it for less than a year now but I’ve had two attempts at Tomatoes so far. The tomatoes have been so good and flavorful but I find that only the first 8-12 blossoms take. The tomatoes grow great and healthy but all the other blossoms that shoot after those first 8-12 on each tree always dry up and fall off. Anyone have some advice on this? Is it typical? Am I lacking nutrients in my soil to keep the plants growing healthy for an extended period of time? I’m in a sub tropical climate, please help.
I had a friend whose plants would drop blossoms if her greenhouse got too hot. Maybe that? It's hard to know without all the details. Try growing in different spots, adding shade or adding lots of flowers to draw pollinators. Good luck!
The cages work best for me I only grow indeterminate tomatoes I am in central Kentucky
I don't know what I'll do outside. We're fairly dry but REALLY windy and even if I get my windbreak fence up, it's only 120cm high... I also work alone, am not tall or that strong, so posts are a challenge... Plus I started SO MANY TOMATOES. Hmmmm. Probably some sort of lower version of Florida weave. Inside, string from above works well for me and I have random ones just tied to my panel fences, usually with long bits of sedge grass, which is super tough and grows all around.
The clips are the worst after the season lol… another great video nerd ❤
I'm surprised the Florida weave is so cheap. T posts are pretty expensive where I'm at. Considering buying 2x4s and making wooden stakes.
You'll only get a couple years out of the 2x4's. Your stake end will rot out pretty fast. And you'll want to avoid using pressure treated. Don't want those chemicals in the soil that's growing food.
T-posts will last for decades.
Tomahooks, simple, easy
It might sound silly, but one solution to the ladder thing is stilts.