Am I the only one who likes the slower superhero movies? The ones that rely more on dialog and story rather than blowing stuff up. It just is more appealing.
Batman should be done as a detective movie. It fits him. That is the kind of Batman movie I am waiting. It works very well in comics. The Long Halloween is considered one of the best Batman story.
It'll only get worse. In the comics, the writers seem to want to keep 1-upping each other. First, it's a whole city in danger. Then, a whole planet. Then, a whole galaxy. Then, the whole universe. Then, the whole multiverse. And I think they haven't found a way to go higher than that with their stakes inflation. Comic writers will just do absolutely anything they want, whenever it's most convenient. There's very little restraint and discipline.
At this point it´s not even the statistic, it´s so much out of anything even a little bit realistic it is 100% unrelatable. It´s like 5 years old kids making up heroes and stories and trying to top each other just because.
Probably my only issue with superheroes in movies, comics, and animation honestly... It's an arms race of one-upmanship: power levels, god-tier beings, and all that. It never ends, especially with serials. It just keeps going ad infinitum, ad nauseum, in perpetuity... Probably why I fell out of love with Dragonball after Z ended, why I usually don't follow Superman, and prefer my fantasy stories with the rules (if not explained) explored without the goalposts constantly shifting... save for a few RPGs where storytelling was just really well done. Sure, raising the stakes and legitimizing the risks helps, but until creators know when NOT to throw in the kitchen sink in with the reality bending powers time-travel unraveling BS, it will get worse.
gerdzpogi not to mention that in the first movie all of the security and most of the staff members had left before the chaos hit so they were basically alone with the dinosaurs, in Jurassic World non of the staff had left and they were able to somewhat handle the situation towards the end with everyone receiving medical treatment.
Irony You're a DC fan thats... ok. But in my opinion The Avengers had a better story with well developed characters, and it made sense (unlike BVS). Just because Buildings were collapsing dosen't mean it was a bad movie ! It was still focused on character and on how the team is for the first time working together while dealing with the aliens. But excluding the ending the whole movie is character focused (maybe not as much as 'Civil War', thats why I like it better) but the themes, character developmemt, it all made for a great movie. Just because earlier action movies didn't do it right, and made cities collapsing a tyring experience, dosen't make The Avengers a bad story. Just want to point that out.
To quote The Joker: “Let’s say a truckload full of soldiers blow up. Nobody cares. Cause it’s all part of the plan. But if I say that one little old mayor will die, WELL THEN EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS!”
"Let's say a truckload full of Syrians blow up. Nobody cares. Cause it's all part of the plan. But if i say that one wholesome Ukranian man will die, WELL THEN EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS!" - The Jokester
plus it is predictable.... when the whole world is at stake you know the good guys will win, they have to. But when a small group of people are at stake you don't know what is gonna happen (The Dark Knight - Rachels death and the two ships almost blowing each other and that guy who had to be killed or else one hospital would blow up)
I could basically predict The Skyscraper just by watching the trailer, i agree. Most (at least new) superhero movies are very predictable because you know the heros win. The Skyscraper isn't a superhero movie but you get the point
I was just telling someone recently that I can't stand most of the new hero movies because the depend entirely on over the top special effects and things being blow up and smashed. Good video Simon.
Aqua Kop. My favorite super hero movies are the ones that focus primarily on the story line. "Beginnings" type ones where the hero learns their powers and advances. Batman begins was epic in my mind. I also really loved the Dark Knight. Even though there were a few over the top scenes the character development in it was stellar.
AdventureSportFlashlights Yeah,man of steel was doing great as an inttoduction of superman with the scenes of his youth,but quite the charm was lost when he fought zod,as we werent capable of feeling what was like to have an incredible power but being unable of helping people.
Yeah dude, you're spot on. I find so many of these films assume we're desensitized and never give us a change to feel or reflect on any thing. Case in point is the last Star Wars movie. They never give you the chance to feel the awe and horror of the death star killing like billions and billions of people. Wha????
Jesus Christ I don't understand? They couldn't be more different... He's talking about TFA most likely. There would have been millions on Jedha and Scarif, but not billions
Dustin Dilworth They probably should have showed us more in-depth those planets that got destroyed rather than one teeny tiny part of everyone on those planets screaming.
This is why "superhero" movies such as kickass, tdk, antman, unbreakable and dredd work better. They are all relatively small scale and intimate. Also since the characters aren't really superheroes (except in unbreakable) so they are more relatable and they can actually be in danger.
This was something I was considering making a video on, but you've phrased it really well and added great examples! I recently rewatched Spider-Man and noted how, at the climax, there was only Mary Jane and a small carriage of children in danger. Far less severe then an entire city under attack, and yet so much more meaningful. The climatic fight of the film is also between just two people, which allows it to be much more focused and precise, instead of juggling numerous characters and hordes of enemies.
JackWolf I always like seeing a smaller amount of lives, it feels so rewarding once peter starts to win. It was built between the group of characters and was pulled off amazingly
John Plumley The excessive amount of lame jokes that ruin the seriousness of a situation. It takes me out of the movie and serves as a reminder that kids are the target audience.
Most of the audience nowaday in theater doesn't give a shit about story, how it relate to their lives, all they want is some flashing screen , cool sound effect and a comfortable chair for an hour and half. Too many people nowadays see movie as entertainment, not an art, they do not want to bring anything out from the film , instead they just want to run away from reality. Look at Transformer , no matter how bad the critic said , but the series grow bigger and bigger in profit.
Its not that audience dont care about story, it's just that when an action superhero movie is made it kinda rely on the actions and cgi rather than story, plus its based on comic books so they cant just create a character, you want to see powers, abilities if you want story watch drama there are many movies like that lol
For me the problem with marvel is that they are to redundant with there plot and story line and they built up steaks during the movie just to leave it flat at the end marvel has absolutely no edge
that's why I loved Logan so much, it made you care for the characters and because of that make you care for the conflict that takes place because the characters are being effected by the conflict and their decisions
Ezra Wood Like the dinner scene. It just literally sets it up for you to care for them and then you feel that they just get snatched away from you whenever Logan's clone kills them.
I almost lost my shit when X23 called Logan 'Daddy'. I almost cried. I almost lost my shit when BvS was like 'Martha!' I laughed because how stupid it was.
Ezra Wood I am almost thirty so I am already a soulless husk of a human being incapable of feeling empathy towards anyone not immediately useful for me, so I didnt enjoy Logan much as I simply didnt give a shit. But if I saw the movie as a kid Id probably care.
That's why I love The Dark Knight. One of the best parts is when we get to see how the people are struggling in the scene where the Joker tries to blow up the boat which makes it more intense. But the best part is when we get to see Batman make difficult choices throughout the movie like when he had to choose between Rachel and Harvey and when he had to choose to let Harvey lie about being Batman or confess. He also has to choose between killing the Joker or not. And in the end when he chooses to take the blame for what Harvey did, it shows how he's learned to make difficult choices. And that makes for a perfect conclusion for a perfect film.
+Forgotten Potato yeah exactly that boat scene is so intense it really sticks in your mind. Just shows that it's possible to make a big budget film with action and superheroes and yet still make something meaningful
Or the Dark Knight Rises. Gotham is at stake, and it could be another city in danger plot, but the cops stopping the kids crossing the bridge to safety personalised it
Exactly and not only but they made it seem so real (even though the show is in the MCU?) without having to end the season finale on a bomb heading for the city or a giant wormhole to another dimension but instead just characters that were developed and fleshed out during the entire story
As a child I was entertained by falling anvils and explosions. Now a lot of films bore me with the big "action sequences" I'm older and not the studio's target audience I suppose.
When I watch superhero movies I expect that because in real life that is what would happen if superheroes were real you'd be dead wrong to expect anything but what you get in the movies if you want a strong story or real emotions watch oscar like movies like Titanic Gladiator Star Wars which itself contains major destruction on bibical scales . Because if you want a superhero movie that contains minimal damage you are damn sure not going to get that with a superhero movie no matter what it maybe .
I get it. Today's cinema seems to be made for kids. Superheroes are simple characters at best, even the "complex ones", and just a vehicle to push new values at worst. I enjoyed superheroes and videogames as a kid. But in my early 30s I find myself having to watch just older movies.
You can hate on Toby Maguire all you want but you can't deny that the early 2000s Spiderman trilogy was better in so many ways compared to the newer ones (especially the first and second). Firstly, the villains were actually scary, during the fight scene between the Green Goblin and Spiderman I was on the edge of my seat. Secondly the character development is waaaaaay better. In the first movie the build up was great, from the cafeteria to the wrestling to the death of his Uncle and all the way to the end. Nowadays the plot is always trying to impress you and when that happens CGI and "action" get added everywhere instead of great plots.
Tobey Magurie was the only problem with the original Spider man trilogy he just sucked as Spider man everyone else was perfect for their role hell the 1st Spider man movie was good just because of Willem Dafoe
Snehil Shrey Well, if you are being sarcastic let me tell you I don’t care about the comics. They only have demonstrated how contrasting films and comic books are. As you can infer from my name I actually am heading to a film University when I graduate from high school and therefore I think you can guess I appreciate more that the film actually has a good story with good cinematography and (in commercial films like Spider-Man) good action scenes
@Snehil Shrey your fucking iron man Jr is nothing against the rest Spiderman of Sam Raimi go on and keep watching your fucking iron bitch Jr but do not compare the Sam Raimi Spiderman trilogy against the fucking generic MCU trash
Honestly, I'm getting super bored with the Superhero genre. The MCU in particular is getting boring. I started getting bored of the MCU when I saw Age of Ultron. All MCU movies start to have the same formula and it annoys me when MCU movies like Civil War and Doctor Strange get 90% on rotten tomatoes (more like a 75% for me). DCEU still hasn't found its ground yet. X-Men films are overstaying their welcome (Logan should've been the finale). Spider-Man film series is a mess with tons of versions of the same character. The Dark Knight Trilogy is the perfect superhero series. The trilogy touches on relevant themes like crime, justice, terrorism, and power, the characters are realistic, there is a sense of urgency when there is a big battle scene on screen and most of all there is a conclusion to the trilogy.
I wouldn't necessarily blame the comics. The comics should be used as a foundation (similar to how Nolan used Batman: Year One storyline as inspiration for Batman Begins) for the movie and some elements should be used for the big screen.
From a close, unconscious perspective of non abstract biased paradigm you would be right. But here's the flip side to the coin. There good marvel movies and there's bad. But if you are saying that you wouldn't do anything for your best friend or brother than you should consider staying away from any writing of any form that has a story. Next time you watch iron man or winter soldier or even ant man. Put yourself in their shoes and see what you would do, and watch how it pales in comparison as to what the heroes actually did.
Marvel movies are not good these days. The best best Marvel movie for me is Spider-Man 2 (with Doc Oc). It has the feel of reading Spider-Man comics. But the Avengers movies, they only ride on Downey's success. And they showed less Hulk, the only good character among them.
If the stakes are so high the the story becomes predictable, this is mostly seen Marvel cinamatic universe. When the world was gonna get destroyed 5-6 times. But in the end the heros win, because a writer just can't end a story where the villain wins.
Simon Johnson No, they just use a better formula. They use a formula that gets us involved. We care. It is one thing to come out of film school thinking that you need to put your main character in a difficult situation. It is another to put your main character in a difficult situation that the viewer cares about. But they are both formulas.
Aurnhammer Films I saw it on Saturday, it's pretty damn enjoyable. It's kinda a testament to how the right amount of fresh changes can make all the difference. Like his the high school for ounce feels like AN ACTUAL HIGH SCHOOL
This really reinforces something I've thought about for a while, that most great films are focused around personal, relatable issues, i.e. why something like Whiplash can seem so much more intense than a huge world-is-in-danger film like Avengers. I know I just summarized the video but I'm just excited someone else has noticed this lol
you are absolutely right, Austin. Thats why when I go to conventions or comic book cons, I DON'T get into long conversations with 'fans". they are unintelligent, tribalistic and judgemental, and factionalist and uneducated. they DON'T CARE about personal, relatable issues in their lives or others. Not all, but many of these younger genarations tend to be psychotic or narcissistic.
the issue with that superheroes do things beyond personal issues, a true superhero tale is far more complex and one of the types of works that most challenges society through big and small problems like revenge and shallowness some of these are western others are from the east.
Couldn't agree more. I get bored of large CG set pieces when really I just want to see character development. Using a video game like 'The Last OF Us', the game was solely based on two characters and their relationship with one another. This game made me more attached to a fictional character than any super hero movie out there currently.
I think the best MCU movies till date are the first Iron Man movie, and Winter Soldier. They had a lot of character development and the story telling was well paced. I don't know why but we humans tend to like stories that build up to something great, and we get bored with the continuation of that greatness. That's why Avengers 2 wasn't as great as Avengers 1. Same with romance movies, we want to see the part where it builds up to marriage, or a proposal; there's no story after that! :D
Guy Campbell the fact that a video game can make a more compelling story with compelling characters than most movies these days just goes to show how formulaic movies have become
You do make a good point how tlou is 9-20hrs long, giving more room for story development ect, as well as the fact that not everyone will find that it is their cup of tea. However if you combine the total hours of marvel films currently out there it then becomes 'sort of' comparable to tlou. Looking at Logan, they really did well with narrowing down the attention of the film to just a handful of characters instead of an entire country or globe, giving more emotional attachment to those characters. I am not saying every film should be about a Joel and Ellie/ father daughter figure. But Cramming every know super hero/ marvel character all into one film- Infinity war- although it may be an amazing action set piece, I find it hard to believe they will do a great job on real story telling and messing with our emotions - apart from throwing in a lazy character death here or there to 'spice things up a bit'. I guess it depends on your preference of film, I,e if you like films where subsequent things and big action happens over a short 2hr period, or if you care more about the people in the films that are being affected by said events. I guess Chris Nolan's 'The Dark Night' is rated highly as one of the GOAT'S in film history because he grounded a super hero comic into 'our' real world and made it very immersive, deeply attaching the audience, to a guy dressed as a fucking bat.
I think it would've worked well to mention the crowds in the Dark Knight on the boats. Nolan manages to create an attachment to their lives and a real conflict in a matter of a few minutes, and that's all it takes to add that gravity
Excellent points about the shortcomings of big budget super hero films. Although, it was interesting to note that in the movie "Superman vs. Batman", the opening scene shows people inside the buildings before the buildings are decimated. It was the first time any super hero film showed such consequences that I can remember. There are a lot of super hero films still to come. Hopefully, they'll be a little more personal than previous ones. But, I won't hold my breath.
DC hasn't really been getting home runs recently but there are some aspects they do far better than the MCU. I was left feeling like not a singular person died after Age of Ultron's final battle (minus quicksilver). Seriously go watch it. I can't recall a single time a civilian died in that battle. While MoS doesn't fully convey it you see people dying and you know they are. Despite basically winning every single fight Superman still fails to save hundreds of thousands of people. The Daily Planet workers struggling desperately to save their co-worker from the collapsed building and incoming doom was well done. in BvS the opening sequence is basically brilliant even if the rest of the film is completely mediocre, though I thought the actual Batman and Superman fight was well done.
Batman's not a superhero as he doesn't have supernatural powers. He's a detective hero in a costume, with gadgets. Or an antihero as he sometimes works outside of the law.
onyourleftbooob Well according to the trailer we've lost a large chunk of Asgard. The home of Thor and Loki and some other characters we've known for a few movies now.
@@thema1998 those are the fucking MCU fanboys who can't accept facts over fellings logan is better than all the MCU Spiderman into the spider-verse is better than all the MCU Spiderman 2 is better than all the MCU The dark Knight is better than all the MCU literally the MCU fanboys are the only ones who take their superheroe movies as serious
I recently watched Transformers: Last Knight and then went to see Baby Driver. I completely relate with you on how big budget action and focused action plays out. Thanks.
*Modern super hero movies have to much pulp and not enough heart. That can be said for almost every other type of movie Hollywood makes now days as well. God bless everyone.*
Christian_Country_Boy I love Jesus Christ! Ah yes. If the movie industry isn't constantly pumping out amazing movies that have people's heart strings being tugged for decades into the future and being remembered for generations, we might as well just have WW3 now
Idk about "so fucking good." The Marvel movies around the X-men are just so convoluted that it all seems arbitrary, including the latest film. I say this but then also love The Wolverine.
The darkness of Days of Future Past really gets me going. Same with the Dark Knight honestly, I really wish there was more negative emotions and darkness and realistic emotions to superhero movies. To me that adds a lot of depth. Watching Magneto in that one plane scene for instance makes me shit myself everytime, holy shit.
You should watch the decently released Power Ranger movie, completely difference from the show when it comes to feeling something for the rangers. More emotions and less blowing things down.
KetoChulo Not just Marvel but the DCEU films as well. Heck, Man of Steel wasn't even a team up movie and he and Zod still ended up wrecking Metropolis. I'm not even going to mention BvS.
Civalry somebody doesn't pay attention, the destruction of metropolis triggered BvS , you know .....the first five minutes of BvS is Wayne watching the destruction ......
Julian David Acuña That's very cool man. Me? I cant pay attention? Well not only can you not pay attention to what I said, but clearly you can't read either. The point I was trying to make was that the DCEU's first film(which wasn't a team up film) had city-wide destruction on a large scale when compared to something like The first Avengers movie. Sure BvS included parts of the city being destroyed, but it was just weaved into the larger Narrative, kinda like Marvel weave's many films around the first Avenger's alien invasion. Oh what? You brought up the first five minutes because you're trying to show that the film has risk and emotional depth? That's ironic really considering Batman would go on to "accidentally" kill a couple of criminals. And Doomsday? That last battle took out many buildings across many city blocks.
The thing with the Incredibles that also did with the Dark Knight. The big statistical showdown was with the Joker, but the final battle was against Two-Face.
Civalry that doesn't really matter because in the end they are still films so you can easily compare them. If you had said one is video game and one is a movie then yes obviously they are not the same medium.
DavidLennon628 They are still completely different films. By that Logic go right ahead and compare Finding Nemo with John Carpenter's The Thing. Since you know they're both films.
Watchmen is brilliant. I hate most superhero movies but liked this, batman, joker and one or two spiderman films. Everything else is just kids movies imo
@@oldskoolordie yes, because when I think of a kids movies, I immediately think of the Captain America series. Seriously, I'm tired of this complaint. Just because a movie has jokes in it doesnt make them kids films
I wish I could get a WHOLE BUNCH of hyper fan boys and fan girls to see this video. Too many people don't understand the art or importance of FILM, making a good story or a good movie. they are into tribalism. If you attack their "idol" or "god" they cancel culture you. But what you are saying is correct IT DOESN'T matter if your voice or opinion is in the minority and NO, THE MONEY that the film succesffully makes DOES NOT determine if it is a "GOOD" film for fans, society or entertaining. It doesn't challenge or entertain intelligent people. But I think we all get harmed in the long run, WHEN WE ALL "settle" for something that is beneath us or is something less than what the movies of yesteryear were!
Peter Tamaribuchi I agree people keep saying the movies not that good because the stakes are not high, but this video explains perfectly why that's not a bad thing
Peter Tamaribuchi but the first amazing spider man have this kind hero intimacy, that scene he rescue a child in the car. This is not the excuse for think a film is bad. Some film is just not our taste.
NoctisMinato Spiderman 2 got people to feel for peter, and when Spiderman reappeared it felt even more rewarding. All the work he has done, it saved him when doc Oc had made the train speed up. The people he saves day in and day out finally step up for him. They stop him from falling off the train and they risk their lives to keep him safe. Its easy to see
The Incredibles was my favorite Pixar movie out there, I mean I love all pixar movies. Pixar never fails me. But something about The Incredibles I loved (probably the maturity compared to Pixar's other films) Anyways, I'm 19 years young now and gonna be in the theaters for part 2 when it comes out.
Someone finally said it! The spectator has to connect with the victims and understand their emotions. The Titanic makes you cry because you connect with Jake and Rose, not because of the thousands of people dying in the boat (although it's the reason why I cried but yeah, nevermind). Same goes with superhero movies. Also I love your voice.
Wow, at first I thought you were talking about The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (which is the freaking worst). Clearly you are talking about the original Spider-Man 2, which I agree, is great.
I tried to put my nostalgie far away and I've watch Spiderman 3 right after finishing The Amazing Spiderman 2... Nothing can beat TAS2 in how bad it was...
Logan is probably the best superhero film as of yet. And now I think Spider-Man homecoming is just as good as the first Maguire film. I still can't understand what's so great about Spider-Man 2 the way people praise and worship it. I mean sure it's a good movie, yeah I definitely like it but to be honest it's just a little bit overrated.
In role playing games, there's a trick to raise the tension by lowering the stakes. (If you don't know what an RPG is, this of it as competitive storytelling.) The idea is, if the fate of the world is at stake, everyone knows the evil plot will be stopped. But if your girlfriend's ability to walk is at stake ... the hero could lose that fight and the story would go on. Failure becomes more possible as the stakes become LOWER, so the tension rises. Contradictory, but sort of a shade of what you're talking about here.
Strangely enough, Joseph Stalin talked about this when he said that 1000 deaths are just a statistic but one death is a tragedy. Idk watching his video reminded me of that. Great work man! Love your video that takes a look at this side of filmmaking.
I just find that most modern superhero movies don’t know what to take seriously and what not to. Especially when it comes to comedy, story, writing, etc I suppose that’s more of a comic book issue now with DC, but still. My point is, the modern hero movies are either painfully too serious for them to be taken seriously, or are just poorly written overall. With the original sources being so horribly trashed that it’s just disrespectful to the original creator in the first place. On the contrary, I watched Joker and I thought to myself: “Wow this is dark.” But it wasn’t the borderline edgy “dark” that modern batman comics have become. Where violence and gore is up to 11 in most cases. Instead it treats death VERY carefully for the story. There’s no “meaningless” features to it, yet it stays true to the character by having the whole thing be a massive question of what’s real or not. Essentially, I thought it was a GREAT way to treat the iconic legacy of a character. Unlike how most super hero movies handle their heroes.
That's what I like about the DC movies, they humanize these blank faces. They also have very human moments such as the Martha scene that got criticized in Batman vs. Superman. People failed to realize that this scene was about so much more than just a name, it was about revelation and character growth, which is what Marvel fails at doing. Marvel is all about what's cool and funny. No offense to them, I very much enjoy their movies, but I prefer DC over them.
same . I prefer to watch dc movies since 1989 Batman and then start to love dc movies even more when 2005 , 2006 , 2007 released batman begins, v for vendetta, 300, John Constantine, Superman Returns, The Road to Perdition. ANd I STILL love dc movies more than marvel in the modern days like joker and zach levi captain marvel 2019 and then 2021 JUSTICE LEAGUE the original movie released after the parody JOHNSSTICE LEAGUE 2017, WORST 2000 dc movie ever in my honest opinion.
@@victorm152 That's mainly Snyder. Even with the 300, he takes characters who feel too minor and miniscule in the army and spends ample time with them to allow us to care for them when they eventually are killed by the Persians. He focuses on many people, but gives us enough time with all of them
The Incredibles... I never thought it would be a great example for superhero movies. The climax of the movie that shows a baby being kidnapped and threatened vs an all-out war of superheroes sure has a very different contrast. When I first watched The Incredibles and that scene as a kid, I didn't know just how high the stakes was. But, it still really made me feel a sudden tension and feel like he did something really cheap. As an adult watching it I can see why: "It's a baby! He's our son! He's our future! He's not involved in this!" kind of feeling and take it as natural, humane reaction.
I think another problem is that they can't break free of the "good guy bad guy" paradigm. They shoehorn in main villains into superhero films that don't even need them, like Captain America: Civil War.
That's what's happening to the MCU now.. there's two hour movies but feels like one hour of being rushed, and the same formula in every modern day superhero movies plus the dceu, and even more.. but I'm always trying to be hyped for a superhero movie but feels to much cliché evening going to the theater to watch a DC or marvel movie with my family being happy and me pretending to enjoy it: And the TV and spend off shows give me a head egg some at least
Yeah, I've been feeling the same way for a while. The earlier Marvel movies had more story and deeper character development. But the more recent movies have less of that in favor of more fight scenes and special effects. I saw the first X-Men movie three times, Batman Begins twice, The Dark Knight Returns three times, Avengers twice, and X-Men First Class twice. But now I've actually passed over some Marvel movies and the others I've seen in the theaters only once. Because the newer movies have less to take in, less to dwell on afterward. I had a greater appreciation for the Wonder Woman and Logan films, which focused on just a few key characters. Now the Marvel movies just have crowds of characters in the same movie so there's less time on any one in particular. Infinity War had some compelling scenes, but I don't need to go see it twice.
It's funny that you put Iron Man 3 on your dislikes (just for this point, I promise I'm not trying to dictate what you can and can't like. XD). There was a big battle, but I always felt like the actual climax was with Tony and Pepper alone. There was action and stuff to get things going, but the stakes were really centered on Tony coping with the aftermath of the Avengers, which I thought works well with what you're trying to say here. Regardless, I really enjoy this video, and I think that it really points out a big key to storytelling in general. :)
Super hero movies just like to blaze past the character development to get to the fighting and that's all ppl seem to care about are cool cgi fighting scenes. I cant get into movies like that.
What the hell do you expect they are superhero movies do you honestly believe that superhero movies are suppose to contain some insane character development were your suppose to empathize with the superheroes or even villains . No superhero movies are just for entertainment you want to watch a movie were you can connect on a emotional level watch Titanic Gladiator Braveheart Disney even all their movies are the at least the vast majority are like that but you want to connect with characters well your not going to get that in superhero movies .
That is exactly why i dislike mcu or marvel movies ever since xmen wolverine, they concentrated too much on the story/dialogue and making it practical, we are talking about superhero movies here, do you wanna see wolverine crying or eating with his claws or taking a bath or do you wanna se wolverine tearing bad guys apart,do you want to see iron man doing maths all day and eating food and chatting with pepper or do you want to see iron man blowing shit up, with different suits, if you want to see stories and plots there are so many movies out there, its like 95% of movies are like that.
The avengers 2012 film, at least the battle of new york, I don’t think the main concern were the lives, the destruction was added effect to let you feel just how much the city was destroyed, it’s further proven after Marvel makes no connection to the battle of new york in later films, for example a character who suffered that tragedy couldve been added as an cameo to make us think back about the lives lost in that battle. But there were no such thing, the lives that were lost in that battle remained statistics, why? Because the main concern throughout the film was figuring out how to make the Avengers work together, when they first met, they met eachothers as acquaintances, and later on when there were cracks in their relationship, they started to turn hostile towards eachothers. The new york battle was a development to their trust in one another, such as Tony giving the commands to Steve, Bruce and Hulk now being their weapon against the Chitauri’s Leviathan instead of an monster that can blow up and kill them anytime, this is where they start to look like a team, and throughout the battle they proved that they can coordinate and cooperate with oneanother. The stakes I’d like to assume were the Chitauri and finally the Nuke, because they never once mentioned how many lives would be lost in this battle, Loki simply threatened that his army would be coming, and Stark stated that it doesn’t matter because “If we can’t protect it, you can be damn sure we’ll avenge it” So the starting fight looked in their favour obviously, but soon it became evident that they were starting to tire out, with Phil having died earlier in the film, this make the stakes of losing one of the Avengers an feasible possibility, the writer knew this and had Tony drive a nuke through the wormhole where they setup a death flag for us. “Sir, that’s a one way trip” - Jarvis “Save it, Jarvis.” - Tony “Might I try miss potts?” - Jarvis “Yeah, might aswell.” - Tony This raised the highest stake, was Iron man going to lose his life here? well he obviously didn’t, but it wouldn’t have been a surprise if he died, Tony at this moment hasn’t foreshadowed Endgame, so therefore we don’t know what big plan they might have for him in the future so losing his life here is very much a possibility.
My problem with a few of these movies is that there aren't emotional stakes, in Guardians of the Galaxy 1, the Galaxy was in danger, but we didn't feel tension until Groot died, after knowing protagonists can die in this movie we get the tension, on the climax the life of all the characters is in danger, so we feel tension, and above that, we learn a lesson, letting others love you can sae your life, it might be a "simple" lesson, but the way the movie builds up to that scene makes us care
This makes me think of the scene in the 2nd Matrix when Trinity is dying and Neo kills countless people and tears up a chunk of a city flying fast to her. The audience is not supposed to be concerned about all the ones he killed as long as he save the one character they know.
Superheroes (and their films) are by nature unrelatable in order to fulfill a very specific need. What do you think people look for when reading a superhero comic or watching a superhero film? For you, it might be relatability, but producers know that ain't gonna sell. People want to detach themselves from daily living by imagining themselves as 'superheroes'. Being a superhero implies 'uniqueness', and being 'special'. It is a very 'American' thing, which explains why all the major superheroes like superman, batman, and spiderman, all originated from the US. People in the US (and all other individualistic cultures) want to a 'special individual' instead of an 'ordinary part of the collective'. Yet everyday they face the harsh reality that they aren't special. They have a job, they have a family, average salary, average IQ, and very average problems to overcome. So they resort to superhero films where they can imagine themselves as 'special' people with 'special powers', solving extreme problems in the world, overcoming extreme adversities, and being rewarded accordingly. So why the mask? Because superheroes are inherently tyrants. Superman had always been the biggest superhero tyrant in my view because he is the most powerful superhero. He can only maintain that tyrant/superhero status by concealing his civilian identity because that is his greatest weakness. Superman needs to keep his family safe by hiding the fact that he is Clark Kent. By doing that, he secures his grip over metropolis because nobody can harm him. Typical superhero mentality, but this is exactly how we all think. Superheroes are fascinating invention of the human psyche to address a human fantasy.
Regarding the "big masses" vs "single persons", Terry Pratchett had something to say as well: "Some of the things you could learn up a drainpipe at night were surprising. For example, people paid attention to small sounds - the click of a window catch, the clink of a lockpick - more than they did to big sounds, like a brick falling into the street or even (for this was, after all, Ankh-Morpork) a scream. These were loud sounds which were therefore public sounds, which in turn meant they were everyone’s problem and, therefore, not mine. But small sounds were nearby and suggested such things as stealth betrayed, and so were pressing and personal."
I've come to the conclusion that most (not all) Hollywood producers and directors.....ACTUALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND how Life works...seriously. they have a disconnect towards humanity, real life struggles and morality. Even the most simplest college student of FILM understands what DSLGuide is saying. But for E.G., Disney execs DON'T GET IT. Example: Mobious (Sony, yet they did spiderman...?), Loki series, parts of Moon Knight, Eternals, the "What If" series, part of Hawkeye series, and DC is even worst, with Birds of Prey, some Superman movies, Justice League movie. How about the early CATWOMAN movie?
What are you talking about ? Are you trying to say hollywood is out of touch with reality just because it makes movies that are not set in reality ? Then i must say you are missing the point of superhero movies.
One of the best Wolverine comics I've ever read was Logan trying to control his anger while tracking an abusive husband accused of murdering his wife. Lowering the stakes and grounding the action in reality with a little bit of fantasy is the best way to do it.
Let's not forget that the City being destroyed is the same in each and every movie. How many times can you demolish a city with millions of people before the people decide to abandon that city. New York should be a ghost town by now in the cinematic universe. The destruction caused should have destroyed the economy leaving hundreds of thousands without a job investment would be practically non existent because no one is crazy to put money in a place where buildings are recked every other week. You couldn't get insurance for your property, tourism would die out because it would be safer to visit Pyongyang then New York. Imagine Stalingrad in 1942 that is how New York should look like in any future Marvell movie.
Synyster Wolf There movies are OK and I really liked some of them but they made it so that all of the movies are connected and that makes the whole thing ridiculous.
I enjoyed Captain America: Civil War because except the accords conflict between Cap and Stark was very personal. They had little fight in previous movies but in CACW they could not agree and their points o view were shown so good that I really cared about the characters. Also Steve's relationship with Bucky was written beautifully but the whole Stark-Rogers thing was very emotional and touching cause they both lost something important to them and learned about they dark side having along huge responsibility, accords things and many other risks. CACW was great and you helped understand why. It was special cause it was not only about great action sequences and breath-taking fights but mainly about people who are beyond the word 'hero'. And if they really can be called that?
Thing is, a lot of us who grew up in the 70s/80s/90s are just geeking out to seeing our comic book heroes and familiar stories on the big screen--and not looking totally cheesy. Even if the movie is shit we'll still go to watch it and watch the sequel too.
And that’s the problem. Millions of comic book fanboys have taken over the movie industry, leaving no room for well made blockbusters of old like the LotR trilogy or pirates of the Caribbean
Pixar movies of Toy Story (NO I DON'T CARE IF ITS NOT A SUPER HERO MOVIE), are great movies, because they make the storylines relatable to people...the relation ships. But when so many people die and their homes are so much irrevocably destroyed as in Batman, superman movies as well as Thor 2 and Avengers 1 and 2, we can't really understand or "get into " the cost of the death of innocents. We get NUMBED by it...we get used to it and become colderr individuals.
I absolutely love your videos! They're so well researched and well thought of and there's just a really nice vibe she i watch your videos! Keep up the awesome work mate!
This is so true about people caring less when film scenarios are less personal. Take this scene for example 1:44 when we watch it from a distance we care less because all we see is a building. Now imagine the cameras perspective shifted to inside the building just before the collision with the monster. Imagine actually seeing people running for their lives through some kind of office as the monster looms in windows in the background and then crashes through them. That's much more personal and terrifying. I think these city destruction scenes take a more backseat approach because they just want a fun kids movies and actually seeing people get crushed is going to push up the rating. Film creators have lost their balls. I watched robo cop as a kid and that was extremely violent and didn't effect me in the slightest. You have to make things more violent in those circumstances in films, other wise it's less effective.
MCU fans ruined the movies due to expectations, and foreshadowing, and extreme emotions for the movies. The movies are no longer have that fantasy and now everything is just technological and science fiction. Then the corporation goes out revealing their next titles which ruins the anticipation and mystery.
Nah the movie industry ruined it by milking the franchise until we got sick of them. Same with star wars. Take a formula, make money, use some cheesy jokes/ forced emotional stuff... there's some risk in some of them, but not enough. And i havent even really seen a superhero movie since endgame/ that spiderman with all the spidermans. Just had a feeling it was getting or soon would get tired. It's a business I get that, but increasingly trades soul for profit
This is why I loved Spider-Man: Homecoming, LOGAN, and even Guardians Vol. 2. With the first two movies, the stakes are far more personal and not world-ending, and even with Guardians Vol. 2, while there is a big world-ending problem, it's more focused on the characters and their inner struggles.
Good points, but I think another reason why personal conflicts might also really work well is because they also generally provide stories where it is easier to give a lot of time to explore the character of the heroes. I think The Dark Knight and Logan are good examples of this since they generally use smaller, more personal conflicts to really make the heroes grappel with their own weaknesses, which I personally found to be very interesting and actually made me care more about what was going to happen both to the heroes and the people they were protecting. Which is more than I can say for a lot of other recent super hero movies.
I think a story cutting between a fairly generic superhero story (Superman meeting the president in the emergency office) and a family trying to survive the third act and how they intertwine would be fascinating.
This kind of explains my issue with the Spiderman Homecoming film. While it was enjoyable I suppose, a movie about a superhero "too good" for saving regular people who needs big and "real" high-stakes events in order to feel fulfilled isn't, in my opinion, a movie that needs to be made or that I would think about in any way after seeing it. The ending scene of Spiderman with the plane crashing into the beach, it was basically just "Oh no! Will Peter save Tony Stark's stuff?!" not to mention anyone in the area or homeless people that in real life (I'm a New Yorker) take shelter on that beach. I was particularly disappointed as a Spiderman fan to see a character famous for literally ONLY caring about saving people, no matter how "insignificant" or what people think of him be dumbed down to a character only interested in publicity and pleasing someone else.
I feel like Marvel needs to make a movie about Captain America trying to stop a Nazi zombie apocolips and he needs help so he goes to Vietnam to find his once sworn enemy: Captain Vietnam. And then they try to beat the facist but realize they need more Communism and travel to Stalingrad to find Stalin's tumb and gaurded by WW2 Soviet zombie soldiers who are thinking they are Facist. But eventually they find Stalin's body and he comes live as zombie Stalin and then need to go to Berlin (The core of the apocolips) and they need to wave the hammer sickle om the Reichstag and at the same time wave the American flag at Iwo Jima to activate the: Liberators and Allied zombie soldiers come from their graves to unite and fight once again to free the world from facism. :)
Did you ever think about what is the message of the big superhero fight scenes? They show a few powerful superheroes fighting a powerful supervillain, cartoonishly throwing cars and buildings at him, which doesn't hurt him, while presumably at ground level thousands of ordinary people are being crushed. The underlying message is _our world is ruled chaotically by a few powerful beings engaged in a Darwinian struggle for supremacy, and we don't matter_ . This is a pretty disempowering message. The superbeings of course are metaphors for the billionaires and powerful people we think rule our lives. The concept missing from every superhero movie is _collective action_ . The billionaires and moguls don't actually have superpowers, and we can control them if we want to, by banding together.
As shocking as it seems people kinda have the same reaction to real life tragedies. Take the entire war in Iraq vs say Casey Anthony. These both were happening simultaneously, yet which had the greater impact for Americans at the time? You look at it that way it actually seems kinda sad and completely insane. This probably has more to do with social conditioning than actual screenwriting fads. In actuality we should care more for the larger group's of people than small groups of individuals. This is nothing more than mass social conditioning to make us disconnect from the harhser truth's of reality.
It´s not social conditioning, it is just deeply wired in our brains because humans evolved as pack animals living in relatively small groups. We are unable to comprehend the tragedy with millions of dead people because we can´t really care about millions of people. We are wired to care about family and friends but that´s all. The outsiders might as well be the enemies from another tribe.
@@Mysikrysa Except we don't know the smaller groups either most of the time and with the larger groups there is more of a chance of it having a personal impact. I think this has become especially relevant from the perspective of the world we live in now. To be clear it has its good sides and it bad sides and we all can see both in real time from day to day now.
Very valid point. Although I think it would've been nice to point out the fact that the events in Batman V Superman were based off of the mindless anonymous destruction from Man of Steel and addressing how these kinds of movies never address them. The same goes for Civil War.
Well done. You've managed to actually portray your point via how you presented it. Short, simple, honest, and impactful, without the fanciful effects and the................. Pizazz, perhaps? Anyways, you earned a subscription from me.
Awesome vidéo ! This topic is the main topic of the 3rd film of Captain America , they said " Dont forget the victims behind the scène " and its work , the goal was simply more humans
I've never been a huge fan of superhero movies (or even comic books), and with the media's recent obsession with them I began wondering if there was something wrong with me since I've never felt "the hype", and just now I understand I simply can't empathize with the story or characters at all. You put it so well into words in your video.
As Stuart Gordon (the director of "Re-animator") used to say: "Godzilla killing houndreds of people is less terrifying than a guy with a razor chasing one person"
You raise very valid points, I think that is why many movies are boring now. Over powerful heros without any weaknesses, plus that neither them nor their nemesis could ever die, thus removing all tension.
Thanks for covering this topic I feel modern superhero movies are going down hill. I feel they are going to dark and hey have lost the sense of wonder they had in the early days of super movies and comics
Jenna Blakeslee i feel like after Avengers 4 or after doctor strange 2, spider man homecoming 2 and guardians of the galaxy 3 the superhero movies will deecrease the quality and people will lost interes on the like the western genera in 1930s
Good video. The only superhero movies i like are dark knight and incredibles. But those are just good movies in general. I do kind of like spiderman but the whole point about spiderman is that he's an average person with real problems: lost his parents struggles between social life and private, struggles with a job. That is much more relatable than a billionaire or a genius inventor. Also if we are talking statistics, studies have shown that ppl who watch a lot of these movie are much more likely to be complacent when trouble arises then those who don't. Watching superhero movies makes you more likely to sit back and let the hero arrive and take care of things as opposed to those that don't watch those movies are more likely to help.
to quote Stalin: "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic".
He must have been a cool dude
wow, I honestly thought about that quote before heading down to the comments to write it - seeing you beating me to it. great one.
Stalin also once said, "Food is like dark humor, some of us just don't get it."
He would know..
Patrick Fales is that really a stalin quote though
Am I the only one who likes the slower superhero movies? The ones that rely more on dialog and story rather than blowing stuff up. It just is more appealing.
Taylor Lex watch daredevil (2015)
Taylor Lex no
Batman should be done as a detective movie. It fits him. That is the kind of Batman movie I am waiting. It works very well in comics. The Long Halloween is considered one of the best Batman story.
Taylor Lex
logan
Arne Cruz I heard the new Batman movie is taking the detective approach.
It'll only get worse.
In the comics, the writers seem to want to keep 1-upping each other. First, it's a whole city in danger. Then, a whole planet. Then, a whole galaxy. Then, the whole universe. Then, the whole multiverse. And I think they haven't found a way to go higher than that with their stakes inflation.
Comic writers will just do absolutely anything they want, whenever it's most convenient. There's very little restraint and discipline.
At this point it´s not even the statistic, it´s so much out of anything even a little bit realistic it is 100% unrelatable. It´s like 5 years old kids making up heroes and stories and trying to top each other just because.
Probably my only issue with superheroes in movies, comics, and animation honestly...
It's an arms race of one-upmanship: power levels, god-tier beings, and all that. It never ends, especially with serials.
It just keeps going ad infinitum, ad nauseum, in perpetuity... Probably why I fell out of love with Dragonball after Z ended, why I usually don't follow Superman, and prefer my fantasy stories with the rules (if not explained) explored without the goalposts constantly shifting... save for a few RPGs where storytelling was just really well done.
Sure, raising the stakes and legitimizing the risks helps, but until creators know when NOT to throw in the kitchen sink in with the reality bending powers time-travel unraveling BS, it will get worse.
Hi Taran if you are still getting notifications.
Yeah it's like a western dragon ball super
@@Mysikrysa comic books are crazy, they shouldn't be realistic
You nailed it especially at 2:13. That's a huge reason why I prefer the first Jurassic Park by a long shot.
gerdzpogi yah but i still like jurassic world
gerdzpogi not to mention that in the first movie all of the security and most of the staff members had left before the chaos hit so they were basically alone with the dinosaurs, in Jurassic World non of the staff had left and they were able to somewhat handle the situation towards the end with everyone receiving medical treatment.
Daniel Jason it had chris pratt tho
-1000 sins
And he got a custom knife
-100 sins
But they didn't let him keep it
+100 sins
Thats a huge reason why I prefer Batman vs Superman over any Avengers film. Haters gonna Hate
Irony You're a DC fan thats... ok. But in my opinion The Avengers had a better story with well developed characters, and it made sense (unlike BVS). Just because Buildings were collapsing dosen't mean it was a bad movie ! It was still focused on character and on how the team is for the first time working together while dealing with the aliens. But excluding the ending the whole movie is character focused (maybe not as much as 'Civil War', thats why I like it better) but the themes, character developmemt, it all made for a great movie. Just because earlier action movies didn't do it right, and made cities collapsing a tyring experience, dosen't make The Avengers a bad story. Just want to point that out.
To quote The Joker: “Let’s say a truckload full of soldiers blow up. Nobody cares. Cause it’s all part of the plan. But if I say that one little old mayor will die, WELL THEN EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS!”
Damn that is true.
"Let's say a truckload full of Syrians blow up. Nobody cares. Cause it's all part of the plan. But if i say that one wholesome Ukranian man will die, WELL THEN EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS!" - The Jokester
@@bornanagaming3329 Mad?
@@bornanagaming3329 it's cuz Ukrainians are white.
@@bornanagaming3329 what
plus it is predictable.... when the whole world is at stake you know the good guys will win, they have to. But when a small group of people are at stake you don't know what is gonna happen (The Dark Knight - Rachels death and the two ships almost blowing each other and that guy who had to be killed or else one hospital would blow up)
I could basically predict The Skyscraper just by watching the trailer, i agree. Most (at least new) superhero movies are very predictable because you know the heros win. The Skyscraper isn't a superhero movie but you get the point
So what it's the journey
Did infinity war change your mind?
@@Random-gb3uj No because they all survived and lived happily ever after.
@@Random-gb3uj yes it did but endgame undid it terribly
I was just telling someone recently that I can't stand most of the new hero movies because the depend entirely on over the top special effects and things being blow up and smashed. Good video Simon.
Thanks Aengelo :)
Aqua Kop. My favorite super hero movies are the ones that focus primarily on the story line. "Beginnings" type ones where the hero learns their powers and advances. Batman begins was epic in my mind. I also really loved the Dark Knight. Even though there were a few over the top scenes the character development in it was stellar.
AdventureSportFlashlights Yeah,man of steel was doing great as an inttoduction of superman with the scenes of his youth,but quite the charm was lost when he fought zod,as we werent capable of feeling what was like to have an incredible power but being unable of helping people.
need I remind you of a quote the First Iron Man said, "Is it too much to ask for both"?
AdventureSportFlashlights they're ok to watch on Netflix as a no-brainer but in the cinema a bit expensive.
Yeah dude, you're spot on. I find so many of these films assume we're desensitized and never give us a change to feel or reflect on any thing. Case in point is the last Star Wars movie. They never give you the chance to feel the awe and horror of the death star killing like billions and billions of people. Wha????
Dustin Dilworth Force awakens or rogue one? Sorry, they seem very similar to me.
Jesus Christ I don't understand? They couldn't be more different...
He's talking about TFA most likely. There would have been millions on Jedha and Scarif, but not billions
Dustin Dilworth They probably should have showed us more in-depth those planets that got destroyed rather than one teeny tiny part of everyone on those planets screaming.
Thomas Woodfield More like a few thousand
This is why "superhero" movies such as kickass, tdk, antman, unbreakable and dredd work better. They are all relatively small scale and intimate. Also since the characters aren't really superheroes (except in unbreakable) so they are more relatable and they can actually be in danger.
homecoming could work with the list you named as well, loved that movie
Dredd is awesome and underrated!
I see what you did there! Ant-man, small scale...nice
Tuukka Terämaa
Kickass is pretty average and gimmicky. Dredd is on another level.
Tuukka Terämaa Ant man was bland as fuck though. Rhey should have kept Edgar Wright
This was something I was considering making a video on, but you've phrased it really well and added great examples!
I recently rewatched Spider-Man and noted how, at the climax, there was only Mary Jane and a small carriage of children in danger. Far less severe then an entire city under attack, and yet so much more meaningful. The climatic fight of the film is also between just two people, which allows it to be much more focused and precise, instead of juggling numerous characters and hordes of enemies.
JackWolf I always like seeing a smaller amount of lives, it feels so rewarding once peter starts to win. It was built between the group of characters and was pulled off amazingly
JackWolf as cheesy as the first movie was, it honestly is one of the best superhero movies imo.
I believe there are alot of problems with modern superhero movies. Lots more than simply this.
John Plumley The excessive amount of lame jokes that ruin the seriousness of a situation. It takes me out of the movie and serves as a reminder that kids are the target audience.
Someone actually posted a video on that if I remember! It's called Bathos. I'll see if I can find it! Here! ruclips.net/video/w-QhdzQo66o/видео.html
Most of the audience nowaday in theater doesn't give a shit about story, how it relate to their lives, all they want is some flashing screen , cool sound effect and a comfortable chair for an hour and half. Too many people nowadays see movie as entertainment, not an art, they do not want to bring anything out from the film , instead they just want to run away from reality. Look at Transformer , no matter how bad the critic said , but the series grow bigger and bigger in profit.
@siddharth bhawra Why? Why, in your opinion, do only book readers deserve "slow burn" stories?
Its not that audience dont care about story, it's just that when an action superhero movie is made it kinda rely on the actions and cgi rather than story, plus its based on comic books so they cant just create a character, you want to see powers, abilities if you want story watch drama there are many movies like that lol
For me the problem with marvel is that they are to redundant with there plot and story line and they built up steaks during the movie just to leave it flat at the end marvel has absolutely no edge
that's why I loved Logan so much, it made you care for the characters and because of that make you care for the conflict that takes place because the characters are being effected by the conflict and their decisions
Ezra Wood Like the dinner scene. It just literally sets it up for you to care for them and then you feel that they just get snatched away from you whenever Logan's clone kills them.
DEADPOOL even the fact that the villain of the film is Logan himself holds so much weight to it.
I almost lost my shit when X23 called Logan 'Daddy'. I almost cried.
I almost lost my shit when BvS was like 'Martha!' I laughed because how stupid it was.
Dino The Martha scene had meaning... I saw a video where they explain the meaning people just dont get it smh
Ezra Wood I am almost thirty so I am already a soulless husk of a human being incapable of feeling empathy towards anyone not immediately useful for me, so I didnt enjoy Logan much as I simply didnt give a shit. But if I saw the movie as a kid Id probably care.
That's why I love The Dark Knight. One of the best parts is when we get to see how the people are struggling in the scene where the Joker tries to blow up the boat which makes it more intense. But the best part is when we get to see Batman make difficult choices throughout the movie like when he had to choose between Rachel and Harvey and when he had to choose to let Harvey lie about being Batman or confess. He also has to choose between killing the Joker or not. And in the end when he chooses to take the blame for what Harvey did, it shows how he's learned to make difficult choices. And that makes for a perfect conclusion for a perfect film.
+Forgotten Potato yeah exactly that boat scene is so intense it really sticks in your mind. Just shows that it's possible to make a big budget film with action and superheroes and yet still make something meaningful
Or the Dark Knight Rises. Gotham is at stake, and it could be another city in danger plot, but the cops stopping the kids crossing the bridge to safety personalised it
Thats a huge reason why I prefer Batman vs Superman over any Avengers film. Haters gonna Hate
Batman vs Superman was trash Avengers at least have a story a to them
Syamini Kaushik bvs had no character at all it's just a bad movie.
Probably why Daredevil was so effective.
Just finished season 2. They lay in on the victim characters deep enough.
Allé Karidi yup
Allé Karidi exactly, and Jessica jones too. Way better universe
Jessica Jones and Daredevil got me depressed because of the deaths.
Exactly and not only but they made it seem so real (even though the show is in the MCU?) without having to end the season finale on a bomb heading for the city or a giant wormhole to another dimension but instead just characters that were developed and fleshed out during the entire story
As a child I was entertained by falling anvils and explosions. Now a lot of films bore me with the big "action sequences" I'm older and not the studio's target audience I suppose.
When I watch superhero movies I expect that because in real life that is what would happen if superheroes were real you'd be dead wrong to expect anything but what you get in the movies if you want a strong story or real emotions watch oscar like movies like Titanic Gladiator Star Wars which itself contains major destruction on bibical scales . Because if you want a superhero movie that contains minimal damage you are damn sure not going to get that with a superhero movie no matter what it maybe .
Just watch it for fun and entertainment, a great way to escape from reality
as queen once said: is this a real life is this just a fantasy?
I get it. Today's cinema seems to be made for kids. Superheroes are simple characters at best, even the "complex ones", and just a vehicle to push new values at worst. I enjoyed superheroes and videogames as a kid. But in my early 30s I find myself having to watch just older movies.
Yeah i feel you, that's why i love movies like Spiderman 2 or Watchmen...they feel like more than just BIG BANG BOOM 🔥🤕
You can hate on Toby Maguire all you want but you can't deny that the early 2000s Spiderman trilogy was better in so many ways compared to the newer ones (especially the first and second). Firstly, the villains were actually scary, during the fight scene between the Green Goblin and Spiderman I was on the edge of my seat. Secondly the character development is waaaaaay better. In the first movie the build up was great, from the cafeteria to the wrestling to the death of his Uncle and all the way to the end. Nowadays the plot is always trying to impress you and when that happens CGI and "action" get added everywhere instead of great plots.
Tobey Magurie was the only problem with the original Spider man trilogy he just sucked as Spider man everyone else was perfect for their role hell the 1st Spider man movie was good just because of Willem Dafoe
@Snehil Shrey Homecoming bored me and didn't really made me feel any kind of emotion at all. Spiderman 1 and 2 always makes me feel excited
Snehil Shrey Well, if you are being sarcastic let me tell you I don’t care about the comics. They only have demonstrated how contrasting films and comic books are. As you can infer from my name I actually am heading to a film University when I graduate from high school and therefore I think you can guess I appreciate more that the film actually has a good story with good cinematography and (in commercial films like Spider-Man) good action scenes
@Snehil Shrey lol tobey was the most accurate man. Tom's a joke
@Snehil Shrey your fucking iron man Jr is nothing against the rest Spiderman of Sam Raimi go on and keep watching your fucking iron bitch Jr but do not compare the Sam Raimi Spiderman trilogy against the fucking generic MCU trash
Honestly, I'm getting super bored with the Superhero genre. The MCU in particular is getting boring. I started getting bored of the MCU when I saw Age of Ultron. All MCU movies start to have the same formula and it annoys me when MCU movies like Civil War and Doctor Strange get 90% on rotten tomatoes (more like a 75% for me). DCEU still hasn't found its ground yet. X-Men films are overstaying their welcome (Logan should've been the finale). Spider-Man film series is a mess with tons of versions of the same character. The Dark Knight Trilogy is the perfect superhero series. The trilogy touches on relevant themes like crime, justice, terrorism, and power, the characters are realistic, there is a sense of urgency when there is a big battle scene on screen and most of all there is a conclusion to the trilogy.
JIG2000 Blame the comics.
I wouldn't necessarily blame the comics. The comics should be used as a foundation (similar to how Nolan used Batman: Year One storyline as inspiration for Batman Begins) for the movie and some elements should be used for the big screen.
From a close, unconscious perspective of non abstract biased paradigm you would be right. But here's the flip side to the coin. There good marvel movies and there's bad. But if you are saying that you wouldn't do anything for your best friend or brother than you should consider staying away from any writing of any form that has a story. Next time you watch iron man or winter soldier or even ant man. Put yourself in their shoes and see what you would do, and watch how it pales in comparison as to what the heroes actually did.
Marvel movies are not good these days. The best best Marvel movie for me is Spider-Man 2 (with Doc Oc). It has the feel of reading Spider-Man comics. But the Avengers movies, they only ride on Downey's success. And they showed less Hulk, the only good character among them.
Tdk, V for Vendetta amd Dredd
Logan was a masterpiece, for a couple of these reasons.
It was a bloodbath. Way too brutal and naturalistic for my liking.
that's part of the point, mate.
I agree. Logan explores the consequences of violence and the brutality of it. A lot of superhero movies don't do that or have tried.
+Ati Shephard wow. you really cant handle some gore hm? thats apart of the hole shindig that was he movie Logan. it was a breathe of fresh air
Gabrielle Vachon what are those reasons
If the stakes are so high the the story becomes predictable, this is mostly seen Marvel cinamatic universe. When the world was gonna get destroyed 5-6 times. But in the end the heros win, because a writer just can't end a story where the villain wins.
@siddharth bhawra The heroes still eventually win 🙄
@@adrithmanvik1853 But half of the heroes die in that movie
They all follow the same goddamn formula.
HK8 except spider-man homecoming,logan,the dark kight,guardians of the galaxy 2. Etc
Simon Johnson No, they just use a better formula. They use a formula that gets us involved. We care. It is one thing to come out of film school thinking that you need to put your main character in a difficult situation. It is another to put your main character in a difficult situation that the viewer cares about. But they are both formulas.
The Marvel ones do, DC always does something new
+ Simon Johnson Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2 was absolute trash. Haven't seen Spider-Man. It's probably nowhere near as good as the hype.
Aurnhammer Films I saw it on Saturday, it's pretty damn enjoyable. It's kinda a testament to how the right amount of fresh changes can make all the difference. Like his the high school for ounce feels like AN ACTUAL HIGH SCHOOL
This really reinforces something I've thought about for a while, that most great films are focused around personal, relatable issues, i.e. why something like Whiplash can seem so much more intense than a huge world-is-in-danger film like Avengers.
I know I just summarized the video but I'm just excited someone else has noticed this lol
you are absolutely right, Austin. Thats why when I go to conventions or comic book cons, I DON'T get into long conversations with 'fans". they are unintelligent, tribalistic and judgemental, and factionalist and uneducated. they DON'T CARE about personal, relatable issues in their lives or others. Not all, but many of these younger genarations tend to be psychotic or narcissistic.
the issue with that superheroes do things beyond personal issues, a true superhero tale is far more complex and one of the types of works that most challenges society through big and small problems like revenge and shallowness some of these are western others are from the east.
Couldn't agree more.
I get bored of large CG set pieces when really I just want to see character development. Using a video game like 'The Last OF Us', the game was solely based on two characters and their relationship with one another. This game made me more attached to a fictional character than any super hero movie out there currently.
I think the best MCU movies till date are the first Iron Man movie, and Winter Soldier. They had a lot of character development and the story telling was well paced. I don't know why but we humans tend to like stories that build up to something great, and we get bored with the continuation of that greatness. That's why Avengers 2 wasn't as great as Avengers 1. Same with romance movies, we want to see the part where it builds up to marriage, or a proposal; there's no story after that! :D
Top Goon But The Last of Us is pretty comparable to Logan
Guy Campbell the fact that a video game can make a more compelling story with compelling characters than most movies these days just goes to show how formulaic movies have become
You do make a good point how tlou is 9-20hrs long, giving more room for story development ect, as well as the fact that not everyone will find that it is their cup of tea. However if you combine the total hours of marvel films currently out there it then becomes 'sort of' comparable to tlou. Looking at Logan, they really did well with narrowing down the attention of the film to just a handful of characters instead of an entire country or globe, giving more emotional attachment to those characters. I am not saying every film should be about a Joel and Ellie/ father daughter figure. But Cramming every know super hero/ marvel character all into one film- Infinity war- although it may be an amazing action set piece, I find it hard to believe they will do a great job on real story telling and messing with our emotions - apart from throwing in a lazy character death here or there to 'spice things up a bit'. I guess it depends on your preference of film, I,e if you like films where subsequent things and big action happens over a short 2hr period, or if you care more about the people in the films that are being affected by said events. I guess Chris Nolan's 'The Dark Night' is rated highly as one of the GOAT'S in film history because he grounded a super hero comic into 'our' real world and made it very immersive, deeply attaching the audience, to a guy dressed as a fucking bat.
Guy Campbell don't fully agree on the infinitt war part, civil war for example had a great stort AND great character arcs
I think it would've worked well to mention the crowds in the Dark Knight on the boats. Nolan manages to create an attachment to their lives and a real conflict in a matter of a few minutes, and that's all it takes to add that gravity
Excellent points about the shortcomings of big budget super hero films. Although, it was interesting to note that in the movie "Superman vs. Batman", the opening scene shows people inside the buildings before the buildings are decimated. It was the first time any super hero film showed such consequences that I can remember. There are a lot of super hero films still to come. Hopefully, they'll be a little more personal than previous ones. But, I won't hold my breath.
DC hasn't really been getting home runs recently but there are some aspects they do far better than the MCU. I was left feeling like not a singular person died after Age of Ultron's final battle (minus quicksilver). Seriously go watch it. I can't recall a single time a civilian died in that battle. While MoS doesn't fully convey it you see people dying and you know they are. Despite basically winning every single fight Superman still fails to save hundreds of thousands of people. The Daily Planet workers struggling desperately to save their co-worker from the collapsed building and incoming doom was well done. in BvS the opening sequence is basically brilliant even if the rest of the film is completely mediocre, though I thought the actual Batman and Superman fight was well done.
Batman's not a superhero as he doesn't have supernatural powers. He's a detective hero in a costume, with gadgets. Or an antihero as he sometimes works outside of the law.
@@LegendaryDreamslayer actually, BVS UE is not mediocore in my opinion, it is as brilliant as the dark knight, but watchmen version.
@@Picnicl he's still a superhero no matter how you put it. Superheroes don't need to have powers just fight for a good cause
yknow what's ironic,
vid title:the problem with modern superheroes
ad:thor ragnarock
yeah that happened
onyourleftbooob Well according to the trailer we've lost a large chunk of Asgard. The home of Thor and Loki and some other characters we've known for a few movies now.
onyourleftbooob A major problem with Thor: Ragnarok is that it has way too much humor.
@@thema1998 Why shouldn't it have? Who takes Superhero movies serious anyways? There just some CGI effects in a row with some guys in Superhero suits.
@@thedudekahuna You'd be surprised by how many people take superhero movies seriously.
@@thema1998 those are the fucking MCU fanboys who can't accept facts over fellings logan is better than all the MCU Spiderman into the spider-verse is better than all the MCU Spiderman 2 is better than all the MCU The dark Knight is better than all the MCU literally the MCU fanboys are the only ones who take their superheroe movies as serious
I recently watched Transformers: Last Knight and then went to see Baby Driver. I completely relate with you on how big budget action and focused action plays out. Thanks.
*Modern super hero movies have to much pulp and not enough heart. That can be said for almost every other type of movie Hollywood makes now days as well. God bless everyone.*
Christian_Country_Boy I love Jesus Christ! Ah yes. If the movie industry isn't constantly pumping out amazing movies that have people's heart strings being tugged for decades into the future and being remembered for generations, we might as well just have WW3 now
ChristianCountryBoy i Love Jesus Christ! ,That's so true bro
They are eye candy and full of action. Essentially they are the entertainment equivalent of junk food yes
That’s why Logan was so fucking good!
Macklebro was too long imo
Idk about "so fucking good." The Marvel movies around the X-men are just so convoluted that it all seems arbitrary, including the latest film. I say this but then also love The Wolverine.
Bb Nn no
Bb Nn If you're gonna troll, try harder.
Bb Nn You're trolling right?
The darkness of Days of Future Past really gets me going. Same with the Dark Knight honestly, I really wish there was more negative emotions and darkness and realistic emotions to superhero movies. To me that adds a lot of depth. Watching Magneto in that one plane scene for instance makes me shit myself everytime, holy shit.
Agree, marvel movies are like the power rangers, they trash the city so often that you just think "oh here it goes again".
KetoChulo watch Captain America: Civil War
You should watch the decently released Power Ranger movie, completely difference from the show when it comes to feeling something for the rangers.
More emotions and less blowing things down.
KetoChulo Not just Marvel but the DCEU films as well. Heck, Man of Steel wasn't even a team up movie and he and Zod still ended up wrecking Metropolis. I'm not even going to mention BvS.
Civalry somebody doesn't pay attention, the destruction of metropolis triggered BvS , you know .....the first five minutes of BvS is Wayne watching the destruction ......
Julian David Acuña That's very cool man. Me? I cant pay attention? Well not only can you not pay attention to what I said, but clearly you can't read either.
The point I was trying to make was that the DCEU's first film(which wasn't a team up film) had city-wide destruction on a large scale when compared to something like The first Avengers movie. Sure BvS included parts of the city being destroyed, but it was just weaved into the larger Narrative, kinda like Marvel weave's many films around the first Avenger's alien invasion.
Oh what? You brought up the first five minutes because you're trying to show that the film has risk and emotional depth? That's ironic really considering Batman would go on to "accidentally" kill a couple of criminals. And Doomsday? That last battle took out many buildings across many city blocks.
The thing with the Incredibles that also did with the Dark Knight. The big statistical showdown was with the Joker, but the final battle was against Two-Face.
toy story better than avengers.
aurel parsa awanta That's like saying Finding Nemo is better than Wonder Woman. Those are two completely different genres.
Can't take a joke, mate
issa joke
Civalry that doesn't really matter because in the end they are still films so you can easily compare them. If you had said one is video game and one is a movie then yes obviously they are not the same medium.
DavidLennon628 They are still completely different films. By that Logic go right ahead and compare Finding Nemo with John Carpenter's The Thing. Since you know they're both films.
This is why Watchmen is good. Very underrated movie.
/BLOOD pretty good.
Its a GREAT movie
Love the comic but I dislike the movie
Watchmen is brilliant. I hate most superhero movies but liked this, batman, joker and one or two spiderman films.
Everything else is just kids movies imo
@@oldskoolordie yes, because when I think of a kids movies, I immediately think of the Captain America series.
Seriously, I'm tired of this complaint. Just because a movie has jokes in it doesnt make them kids films
I wish I could get a WHOLE BUNCH of hyper fan boys and fan girls to see this video. Too many people don't understand the art or importance of FILM, making a good story or a good movie. they are into tribalism. If you attack their "idol" or "god" they cancel culture you. But what you are saying is correct IT DOESN'T matter if your voice or opinion is in the minority and NO, THE MONEY that the film succesffully makes DOES NOT determine if it is a "GOOD" film for fans, society or entertaining. It doesn't challenge or entertain intelligent people. But I think we all get harmed in the long run, WHEN WE ALL "settle" for something that is beneath us or is something less than what the movies of yesteryear were!
Uh dude opinions exist. No need to get angry.
Excellent. Spider Man: Homecoming was a good example of this. Much better than the not so amazing reboots. They made the conflict personal.
Peter Tamaribuchi I agree people keep saying the movies not that good because the stakes are not high, but this video explains perfectly why that's not a bad thing
Peter Tamaribuchi but the first amazing spider man have this kind hero intimacy, that scene he rescue a child in the car. This is not the excuse for think a film is bad. Some film is just not our taste.
Peter Tamaribuchi what are you talking about? I mean sure in both movies he had to save the city but what about the final fight with Gwen involved?
Peter Tamaribuchi except spiderman hc felt like an mcu movie more then a spdierman one
NoctisMinato Spiderman 2 got people to feel for peter, and when Spiderman reappeared it felt even more rewarding. All the work he has done, it saved him when doc Oc had made the train speed up. The people he saves day in and day out finally step up for him. They stop him from falling off the train and they risk their lives to keep him safe. Its easy to see
Loving the incredibles references 👌🏼
I think we get a sequel in... 2019..??
AustinTheWeird123 actually less than a year!
StarGazin I thought it was 2019 but I looked it up and you're right! Wow!
AustinTheWeird123 Can't wait for it! :-)
The Incredibles was my favorite Pixar movie out there, I mean I love all pixar movies. Pixar never fails me.
But something about The Incredibles I loved (probably the maturity compared to Pixar's other films)
Anyways, I'm 19 years young now and gonna be in the theaters for part 2 when it comes out.
Someone finally said it! The spectator has to connect with the victims and understand their emotions. The Titanic makes you cry because you connect with Jake and Rose, not because of the thousands of people dying in the boat (although it's the reason why I cried but yeah, nevermind). Same goes with superhero movies.
Also I love your voice.
Spiderman 2 still one-of/the best hero movie up those days.
AX System why not spiderman 1 as well? It's my personal favourite because of how close the audience gets to peter parker.
Wow, at first I thought you were talking about The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (which is the freaking worst). Clearly you are talking about the original Spider-Man 2, which I agree, is great.
AstroLizardChannel The Amazing Spiderman 2 was bad, but Spiderman 3 is still the worst IMO
I tried to put my nostalgie far away and I've watch Spiderman 3 right after finishing The Amazing Spiderman 2... Nothing can beat TAS2 in how bad it was...
Logan is probably the best superhero film as of yet. And now I think Spider-Man homecoming is just as good as the first Maguire film. I still can't understand what's so great about Spider-Man 2 the way people praise and worship it. I mean sure it's a good movie, yeah I definitely like it but to be honest it's just a little bit overrated.
In role playing games, there's a trick to raise the tension by lowering the stakes. (If you don't know what an RPG is, this of it as competitive storytelling.)
The idea is, if the fate of the world is at stake, everyone knows the evil plot will be stopped. But if your girlfriend's ability to walk is at stake ... the hero could lose that fight and the story would go on. Failure becomes more possible as the stakes become LOWER, so the tension rises. Contradictory, but sort of a shade of what you're talking about here.
That's why the first two Spiderman films defined the superhero genre. They were so personal
this is why i love shazam!! it follows an older, “save the city” instead of “save the world” formula. and, it’s really unique in its comedy, too!
Strangely enough, Joseph Stalin talked about this when he said that 1000 deaths are just a statistic but one death is a tragedy. Idk watching his video reminded me of that. Great work man! Love your video that takes a look at this side of filmmaking.
That's also true didn't really think this comment through I also misspelled filmmaking. Sorry if I offended you.
The Dark Knight is easily the best super hero movie
really cool video. I like the picture Animations and really enjoy how you explain.
Never stop! Your the Best!
FlaverHD *You're
Community Watch
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I just find that most modern superhero movies don’t know what to take seriously and what not to. Especially when it comes to comedy, story, writing, etc
I suppose that’s more of a comic book issue now with DC, but still.
My point is, the modern hero movies are either painfully too serious for them to be taken seriously, or are just poorly written overall. With the original sources being so horribly trashed that it’s just disrespectful to the original creator in the first place.
On the contrary, I watched Joker and I thought to myself: “Wow this is dark.” But it wasn’t the borderline edgy “dark” that modern batman comics have become. Where violence and gore is up to 11 in most cases.
Instead it treats death VERY carefully for the story. There’s no “meaningless” features to it, yet it stays true to the character by having the whole thing be a massive question of what’s real or not.
Essentially, I thought it was a GREAT way to treat the iconic legacy of a character. Unlike how most super hero movies handle their heroes.
That's what I like about the DC movies, they humanize these blank faces. They also have very human moments such as the Martha scene that got criticized in Batman vs. Superman. People failed to realize that this scene was about so much more than just a name, it was about revelation and character growth, which is what Marvel fails at doing. Marvel is all about what's cool and funny. No offense to them, I very much enjoy their movies, but I prefer DC over them.
same . I prefer to watch dc movies since 1989 Batman and then start to love dc movies even more when 2005 , 2006 , 2007 released batman begins, v for vendetta, 300, John Constantine, Superman Returns, The Road to Perdition. ANd I STILL love dc movies more than marvel in the modern days like joker and zach levi captain marvel 2019 and then 2021 JUSTICE LEAGUE the original movie released after the parody JOHNSSTICE LEAGUE 2017, WORST 2000 dc movie ever in my honest opinion.
I'm definitely a DC fan over a marvel fan. I like Marvel, but DC is what I truly love.
@@victorm152 That's mainly Snyder. Even with the 300, he takes characters who feel too minor and miniscule in the army and spends ample time with them to allow us to care for them when they eventually are killed by the Persians. He focuses on many people, but gives us enough time with all of them
@@maouliamediaofficial no wonder The Snyder Cut is absolute greatness
@@victorm152 oh I wouldn't know about that one. I haven't really watched his DC films aside from watchmen. I was just speaking in general
The Incredibles... I never thought it would be a great example for superhero movies.
The climax of the movie that shows a baby being kidnapped and threatened vs an all-out war of superheroes sure has a very different contrast. When I first watched The Incredibles and that scene as a kid, I didn't know just how high the stakes was. But, it still really made me feel a sudden tension and feel like he did something really cheap. As an adult watching it I can see why: "It's a baby! He's our son! He's our future! He's not involved in this!" kind of feeling and take it as natural, humane reaction.
I think another problem is that they can't break free of the "good guy bad guy" paradigm. They shoehorn in main villains into superhero films that don't even need them, like Captain America: Civil War.
That's why i love logan
I also really liked logan.
Harpia You have good taste my friend 👍
degree7 nah
Logan is Art
Ginston beat for beat rip offs of Children of Men is not what I would call "Art"
Homecoming: "Well then, let's put all the main characters friends together, and put them at risk!
That's what's happening to the MCU now.. there's two hour movies but feels like one hour of being rushed, and the same formula in every modern day superhero movies plus the dceu, and even more.. but I'm always trying to be hyped for a superhero movie but feels to much cliché evening going to the theater to watch a DC or marvel movie with my family being happy and me pretending to enjoy it:
And the TV and spend off shows give me a head egg some at least
Yeah, I've been feeling the same way for a while. The earlier Marvel movies had more story and deeper character development. But the more recent movies have less of that in favor of more fight scenes and special effects. I saw the first X-Men movie three times, Batman Begins twice, The Dark Knight Returns three times, Avengers twice, and X-Men First Class twice. But now I've actually passed over some Marvel movies and the others I've seen in the theaters only once. Because the newer movies have less to take in, less to dwell on afterward. I had a greater appreciation for the Wonder Woman and Logan films, which focused on just a few key characters. Now the Marvel movies just have crowds of characters in the same movie so there's less time on any one in particular. Infinity War had some compelling scenes, but I don't need to go see it twice.
Such a great video! Nice one mate
It's funny that you put Iron Man 3 on your dislikes (just for this point, I promise I'm not trying to dictate what you can and can't like. XD). There was a big battle, but I always felt like the actual climax was with Tony and Pepper alone. There was action and stuff to get things going, but the stakes were really centered on Tony coping with the aftermath of the Avengers, which I thought works well with what you're trying to say here.
Regardless, I really enjoy this video, and I think that it really points out a big key to storytelling in general. :)
Logan is a special superhero film in my opinion. It really delivered a story about Wolverine and the people around him.
MigzerGames agreed
MigzerGames Yes. Logan is a masterpiece
Dark Knight, Incredibles, and Iron Man all had characters the audience cared about at stake for the big climaxes, good observation.
Logan has the climax that is high on a personal level, characters to care about, and see how the relationship evolves.
Super hero movies just like to blaze past the character development to get to the fighting and that's all ppl seem to care about are cool cgi fighting scenes. I cant get into movies like that.
What the hell do you expect they are superhero movies do you honestly believe that superhero movies are suppose to contain some insane character development were your suppose to empathize with the superheroes or even villains . No superhero movies are just for entertainment you want to watch a movie were you can connect on a emotional level watch Titanic Gladiator Braveheart Disney even all their movies are the at least the vast majority are like that but you want to connect with characters well your not going to get that in superhero movies .
That is exactly why i dislike mcu or marvel movies ever since xmen wolverine, they concentrated too much on the story/dialogue and making it practical, we are talking about superhero movies here, do you wanna see wolverine crying or eating with his claws or taking a bath or do you wanna se wolverine tearing bad guys apart,do you want to see iron man doing maths all day and eating food and chatting with pepper or do you want to see iron man blowing shit up, with different suits, if you want to see stories and plots there are so many movies out there, its like 95% of movies are like that.
The avengers 2012 film, at least the battle of new york, I don’t think the main concern were the lives, the destruction was added effect to let you feel just how much the city was destroyed, it’s further proven after Marvel makes no connection to the battle of new york in later films, for example a character who suffered that tragedy couldve been added as an cameo to make us think back about the lives lost in that battle.
But there were no such thing, the lives that were lost in that battle remained statistics, why?
Because the main concern throughout the film was figuring out how to make the Avengers work together, when they first met, they met eachothers as acquaintances, and later on when there were cracks in their relationship, they started to turn hostile towards eachothers.
The new york battle was a development to their trust in one another, such as Tony giving the commands to Steve, Bruce and Hulk now being their weapon against the Chitauri’s Leviathan instead of an monster that can blow up and kill them anytime, this is where they start to look like a team, and throughout the battle they proved that they can coordinate and cooperate with oneanother.
The stakes I’d like to assume were the Chitauri and finally the Nuke, because they never once mentioned how many lives would be lost in this battle, Loki simply threatened that his army would be coming, and Stark stated that it doesn’t matter because “If we can’t protect it, you can be damn sure we’ll avenge it”
So the starting fight looked in their favour obviously, but soon it became evident that they were starting to tire out, with Phil having died earlier in the film, this make the stakes of losing one of the Avengers an feasible possibility, the writer knew this and had Tony drive a nuke through the wormhole where they setup a death flag for us.
“Sir, that’s a one way trip” - Jarvis
“Save it, Jarvis.” - Tony
“Might I try miss potts?” - Jarvis
“Yeah, might aswell.” - Tony
This raised the highest stake, was Iron man going to lose his life here?
well he obviously didn’t, but it wouldn’t have been a surprise if he died, Tony at this moment hasn’t foreshadowed Endgame, so therefore we don’t know what big plan they might have for him in the future so losing his life here is very much a possibility.
I've always wondered what was missing from superhero films. Great video:))
My problem with a few of these movies is that there aren't emotional stakes, in Guardians of the Galaxy 1, the Galaxy was in danger, but we didn't feel tension until Groot died, after knowing protagonists can die in this movie we get the tension, on the climax the life of all the characters is in danger, so we feel tension, and above that, we learn a lesson, letting others love you can sae your life, it might be a "simple" lesson, but the way the movie builds up to that scene makes us care
Awesome video, man! Completely agree.
This makes me think of the scene in the 2nd Matrix when Trinity is dying and Neo kills countless people and tears up a chunk of a city flying fast to her. The audience is not supposed to be concerned about all the ones he killed as long as he save the one character they know.
Superheroes (and their films) are by nature unrelatable in order to fulfill a very specific need. What do you think people look for when reading a superhero comic or watching a superhero film? For you, it might be relatability, but producers know that ain't gonna sell.
People want to detach themselves from daily living by imagining themselves as 'superheroes'. Being a superhero implies 'uniqueness', and being 'special'. It is a very 'American' thing, which explains why all the major superheroes like superman, batman, and spiderman, all originated from the US. People in the US (and all other individualistic cultures) want to a 'special individual' instead of an 'ordinary part of the collective'.
Yet everyday they face the harsh reality that they aren't special. They have a job, they have a family, average salary, average IQ, and very average problems to overcome. So they resort to superhero films where they can imagine themselves as 'special' people with 'special powers', solving extreme problems in the world, overcoming extreme adversities, and being rewarded accordingly.
So why the mask? Because superheroes are inherently tyrants. Superman had always been the biggest superhero tyrant in my view because he is the most powerful superhero. He can only maintain that tyrant/superhero status by concealing his civilian identity because that is his greatest weakness. Superman needs to keep his family safe by hiding the fact that he is Clark Kent. By doing that, he secures his grip over metropolis because nobody can harm him.
Typical superhero mentality, but this is exactly how we all think. Superheroes are fascinating invention of the human psyche to address a human fantasy.
How are superheroes tyrants?
Regarding the "big masses" vs "single persons", Terry Pratchett had something to say as well:
"Some of the things you could learn up a drainpipe at night were surprising. For example, people paid attention to small sounds - the click of a window catch, the clink of a lockpick - more than they did to big sounds, like a brick falling into the street or even (for this was, after all, Ankh-Morpork) a scream.
These were loud sounds which were therefore public sounds, which in turn meant they were everyone’s problem and, therefore, not mine. But small sounds were nearby and suggested such things as stealth betrayed, and so were pressing and personal."
Wonderful video! As always
This is why I'd like the upcoming Batman movie to be around Batman working to save one single person from a kidnapper.
I've come to the conclusion that most (not all) Hollywood producers and directors.....ACTUALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND how Life works...seriously. they have a disconnect towards humanity, real life struggles and morality. Even the most simplest college student of FILM understands what DSLGuide is saying. But for E.G., Disney execs DON'T GET IT. Example: Mobious (Sony, yet they did spiderman...?), Loki series, parts of Moon Knight, Eternals, the "What If" series, part of Hawkeye series, and DC is even worst, with Birds of Prey, some Superman movies, Justice League movie. How about the early CATWOMAN movie?
What are you talking about ? Are you trying to say hollywood is out of touch with reality just because it makes movies that are not set in reality ? Then i must say you are missing the point of superhero movies.
One of the best Wolverine comics I've ever read was Logan trying to control his anger while tracking an abusive husband accused of murdering his wife. Lowering the stakes and grounding the action in reality with a little bit of fantasy is the best way to do it.
Let's not forget that the City being destroyed is the same in each and every movie. How many times can you demolish a city with millions of people before the people decide to abandon that city. New York should be a ghost town by now in the cinematic universe. The destruction caused should have destroyed the economy leaving hundreds of thousands without a job investment would be practically non existent because no one is crazy to put money in a place where buildings are recked every other week. You couldn't get insurance for your property, tourism would die out because it would be safer to visit Pyongyang then New York.
Imagine Stalingrad in 1942 that is how New York should look like in any future Marvell movie.
Милош Спасић Yeah seriously Marvel does this so much but everyone rides their dick into the sunset claiming they're god tier movies
Synyster Wolf There movies are OK and I really liked some of them but they made it so that all of the movies are connected and that makes the whole thing ridiculous.
New York only had one battle in it.
The rest were in other countries.
I enjoyed Captain America: Civil War because except the accords conflict between Cap and Stark was very personal. They had little fight in previous movies but in CACW they could not agree and their points o view were shown so good that I really cared about the characters. Also Steve's relationship with Bucky was written beautifully but the whole Stark-Rogers thing was very emotional and touching cause they both lost something important to them and learned about they dark side having along huge responsibility, accords things and many other risks.
CACW was great and you helped understand why. It was special cause it was not only about great action sequences and breath-taking fights but mainly about people who are beyond the word 'hero'. And if they really can be called that?
Thing is, a lot of us who grew up in the 70s/80s/90s are just geeking out to seeing our comic book heroes and familiar stories on the big screen--and not looking totally cheesy. Even if the movie is shit we'll still go to watch it and watch the sequel too.
i'm not a comic book superhero fanatic.
And that’s the problem. Millions of comic book fanboys have taken over the movie industry, leaving no room for well made blockbusters of old like the LotR trilogy or pirates of the Caribbean
Pixar movies of Toy Story (NO I DON'T CARE IF ITS NOT A SUPER HERO MOVIE), are great movies, because they make the storylines relatable to people...the relation ships. But when so many people die and their homes are so much irrevocably destroyed as in Batman, superman movies as well as Thor 2 and Avengers 1 and 2, we can't really understand or "get into " the cost of the death of innocents. We get NUMBED by it...we get used to it and become colderr individuals.
I absolutely love your videos! They're so well researched and well thought of and there's just a really nice vibe she i watch your videos! Keep up the awesome work mate!
This is so true about people caring less when film scenarios are less personal. Take this scene for example 1:44 when we watch it from a distance we care less because all we see is a building. Now imagine the cameras perspective shifted to inside the building just before the collision with the monster. Imagine actually seeing people running for their lives through some kind of office as the monster looms in windows in the background and then crashes through them. That's much more personal and terrifying. I think these city destruction scenes take a more backseat approach because they just want a fun kids movies and actually seeing people get crushed is going to push up the rating. Film creators have lost their balls. I watched robo cop as a kid and that was extremely violent and didn't effect me in the slightest. You have to make things more violent in those circumstances in films, other wise it's less effective.
MCU fans ruined the movies due to expectations, and foreshadowing, and extreme emotions for the movies. The movies are no longer have that fantasy and now everything is just technological and science fiction. Then the corporation goes out revealing their next titles which ruins the anticipation and mystery.
Nah the movie industry ruined it by milking the franchise until we got sick of them. Same with star wars. Take a formula, make money, use some cheesy jokes/ forced emotional stuff... there's some risk in some of them, but not enough. And i havent even really seen a superhero movie since endgame/ that spiderman with all the spidermans. Just had a feeling it was getting or soon would get tired. It's a business I get that, but increasingly trades soul for profit
This is why I loved Spider-Man: Homecoming, LOGAN, and even Guardians Vol. 2. With the first two movies, the stakes are far more personal and not world-ending, and even with Guardians Vol. 2, while there is a big world-ending problem, it's more focused on the characters and their inner struggles.
This just became way too emotional for no reason out of nowhere
Good points, but I think another reason why personal conflicts might also really work well is because they also generally provide stories where it is easier to give a lot of time to explore the character of the heroes. I think The Dark Knight and Logan are good examples of this since they generally use smaller, more personal conflicts to really make the heroes grappel with their own weaknesses, which I personally found to be very interesting and actually made me care more about what was going to happen both to the heroes and the people they were protecting. Which is more than I can say for a lot of other recent super hero movies.
I think a story cutting between a fairly generic superhero story (Superman meeting the president in the emergency office) and a family trying to survive the third act and how they intertwine would be fascinating.
This kind of explains my issue with the Spiderman Homecoming film. While it was enjoyable I suppose, a movie about a superhero "too good" for saving regular people who needs big and "real" high-stakes events in order to feel fulfilled isn't, in my opinion, a movie that needs to be made or that I would think about in any way after seeing it. The ending scene of Spiderman with the plane crashing into the beach, it was basically just "Oh no! Will Peter save Tony Stark's stuff?!" not to mention anyone in the area or homeless people that in real life (I'm a New Yorker) take shelter on that beach. I was particularly disappointed as a Spiderman fan to see a character famous for literally ONLY caring about saving people, no matter how "insignificant" or what people think of him be dumbed down to a character only interested in publicity and pleasing someone else.
I feel like Marvel needs to make a movie about Captain America trying to stop a Nazi zombie apocolips and he needs help so he goes to Vietnam to find his once sworn enemy: Captain Vietnam. And then they try to beat the facist but realize they need more Communism and travel to Stalingrad to find Stalin's tumb and gaurded by WW2 Soviet zombie soldiers who are thinking they are Facist. But eventually they find Stalin's body and he comes live as zombie Stalin and then need to go to Berlin (The core of the apocolips) and they need to wave the hammer sickle om the Reichstag and at the same time wave the American flag at Iwo Jima to activate the: Liberators and Allied zombie soldiers come from their graves to unite and fight once again to free the world from facism. :)
Did you ever think about what is the message of the big superhero fight scenes? They show a few powerful superheroes fighting a powerful supervillain, cartoonishly throwing cars and buildings at him, which doesn't hurt him, while presumably at ground level thousands of ordinary people are being crushed. The underlying message is _our world is ruled chaotically by a few powerful beings engaged in a Darwinian struggle for supremacy, and we don't matter_ . This is a pretty disempowering message. The superbeings of course are metaphors for the billionaires and powerful people we think rule our lives. The concept missing from every superhero movie is _collective action_ . The billionaires and moguls don't actually have superpowers, and we can control them if we want to, by banding together.
As shocking as it seems people kinda have the same reaction to real life tragedies. Take the entire war in Iraq vs say Casey Anthony. These both were happening simultaneously, yet which had the greater impact for Americans at the time? You look at it that way it actually seems kinda sad and completely insane. This probably has more to do with social conditioning than actual screenwriting fads. In actuality we should care more for the larger group's of people than small groups of individuals. This is nothing more than mass social conditioning to make us disconnect from the harhser truth's of reality.
It´s not social conditioning, it is just deeply wired in our brains because humans evolved as pack animals living in relatively small groups. We are unable to comprehend the tragedy with millions of dead people because we can´t really care about millions of people. We are wired to care about family and friends but that´s all. The outsiders might as well be the enemies from another tribe.
@@Mysikrysa Except we don't know the smaller groups either most of the time and with the larger groups there is more of a chance of it having a personal impact. I think this has become especially relevant from the perspective of the world we live in now. To be clear it has its good sides and it bad sides and we all can see both in real time from day to day now.
Very valid point. Although I think it would've been nice to point out the fact that the events in Batman V Superman were based off of the mindless anonymous destruction from Man of Steel and addressing how these kinds of movies never address them. The same goes for Civil War.
maybe that's why i can't get interested in the regular superhero movies. Fantastic one, Simon !!
Fantastic dissection of superhero films. BTW, loved the background music too - subtle and merges with this video. Wonder which one it is.
Well done. You've managed to actually portray your point via how you presented it. Short, simple, honest, and impactful, without the fanciful effects and the................. Pizazz, perhaps? Anyways, you earned a subscription from me.
Awesome vidéo ! This topic is the main topic of the 3rd film of Captain America , they said " Dont forget the victims behind the scène " and its work , the goal was simply more humans
you got one this wrong. "Guess that marvel film was alright". Marvel movies aren't films. They are video sequences.
Disagree with you marvel films are cinema because they are sci fi films
Still marvel wins every time. Dc fanboys cry over twitter to save snyderverse🤣
That’s an insult to proper sci-fi it’s just childhood comic nostalgia movies
I've never been a huge fan of superhero movies (or even comic books), and with the media's recent obsession with them I began wondering if there was something wrong with me since I've never felt "the hype", and just now I understand I simply can't empathize with the story or characters at all. You put it so well into words in your video.
This is why i love TASM1. It has a proper balance in cinema story telling and this hero villain action
As Stuart Gordon (the director of "Re-animator") used to say:
"Godzilla killing houndreds of people is less terrifying than a guy with a razor chasing one person"
If you actually show close ups of people panicking it can be done, not with an empty city like in the marvel movies.
@@stiepanholkien605 random people, mind you. I
@@V9incent what counts is what you see, random people close up count more than a bunch of people from far away, or no people at all like in marvel.
1. BVS
2. TDK
3. SM2
I am sure jl would be in my list this year but for now these 3 are my fav 4. civil war
Poras Srivastava BvS?? Batman vs superman as number 1!?!?!?!?!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Horuhe Suárez when you keep wishing about the team up of bats supes and wondy every night and when that finnaly happens.... Yes its my fav.
No. Just No.
People have a right to their own opinions irregardless of what others might deride them for it.
So many acronyms. What the hell do those stand for?
You raise very valid points, I think that is why many movies are boring now. Over powerful heros without any weaknesses, plus that neither them nor their nemesis could ever die, thus removing all tension.
Incredibles is the best!
Awesome. Please make a video about how TV superhero shows are kicking their film counterparts. Flash, Daredevil, JJones, Luke Cage etc.
Thanks for covering this topic I feel modern superhero movies are going down hill. I feel they are going to dark and hey have lost the sense of wonder they had in the early days of super movies and comics
Snehil Shrey dceu is a mess right now
Jenna Blakeslee i feel like after Avengers 4 or after doctor strange 2, spider man homecoming 2 and guardians of the galaxy 3 the superhero movies will deecrease the quality and people will lost interes on the like the western genera in 1930s
Good video.
The only superhero movies i like are dark knight and incredibles.
But those are just good movies in general.
I do kind of like spiderman but the whole point about spiderman is that he's an average person with real problems: lost his parents struggles between social life and private, struggles with a job. That is much more relatable than a billionaire or a genius inventor.
Also if we are talking statistics, studies have shown that ppl who watch a lot of these movie are much more likely to be complacent when trouble arises then those who don't.
Watching superhero movies makes you more likely to sit back and let the hero arrive and take care of things as opposed to those that don't watch those movies are more likely to help.