If PTC ever ran 8 car train sets on this line, it was prior to the opening of Fern Rock. The yard size limits the train platform length to 6 cars and in practice 5 car sets have been normal since the 90s. Many stations including Walnut-Locust and Girard have had parts of their platforms walled off and they can’t accommodate 8 car trains now.
After going to Philly a week ago, I see it. With a decent budget and higher frequencies it could be amazing. I dont know about the compitency of SEPTA but I also hope that they aren't as bad as the MTA in that regard where they can't add 5 vending machines to a station without a billion dollars in funding.
Philly is one of the cities really baring the scars from the nasty and shasy and disturbing politics of the 70s and 8ps. There's abandonded tunnels you can explore that were meant to be part of an even larger metro system. Instead, the federal government literally fucking bombed the city I kid you not... It's so sad most white Americans still have not realized the reality of what happened then
@@AmazingJayB51 Alot of my classmates in Community College of Philly did just that. Never even owned a car their entire life. Many of whom were in their 40s too.
As a Philly native who has also lived in Seattle, I would often get frustrated by the amount of coverage/praise Seattle's transit gets amongst the transit enthusiasts crowd whereas Philly seems to be all but forgotten in comparison. I love what Seattle's doing but Philly has objectively better transit in terms of coverage. Glad you made this video!
That’s a recurring theme. West Coast people praise the transit and urban planning of places like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle only because they’ve never visited the old cities of the Northeast.
@@michaelimbesi2314I know folks like that exist in Portland where I am for sure but I would never even bother to compare Portland to places like NYC, Chicago, and Philadelphia. Our system is good for a city our size and is far from perfect. I also have difficulty praising Seattle's light rail expansion too much since it really should be a metro system instead. Ultimately though it's getting the attention because they are expanding massively which unfortunately is not common in the US.
@@russelldinkins5801 Coverage, frequency, speed, it's not even close. Philadelphia prefers real trains and heavy rail rather than trams that are slow as molasses
SEPTA is probably the closest system to an S-Bahn in the US, it through runs in the city and is fully electrified. (it still has major problems like frequency)
I love regional rail but it could be so much better, missing my train is genuinely always a wrench in my day because of the frequency issues. And the amount/length of holdups at Zoo Junction is downright unacceptable.
Honestly though while Septa is good, I think if you wanna see something S-bahn like, youre better off looking at the Mid Century metro systems which are basically S-bahns but built from the ground up rather than converting existing lines to subway standards. The biggest example of this has got to be BART in San Fransisco with its central tunnel in San Fransisco and vast radiating lines and high speeds, and generally matching frequencies to an S-bahn.
Arguably, many cities' metro systems are configured like S-Bahns. DC, Baltimore (almost), Atlanta, etc. all have mostly suburban, through-running metro lines, whereas in Philly the metro lines are confined to the city proper and the regional rail network functions as a completely separate S-Bahn.
@@drdewott9154 I thought the same when visiting DC. Judging by the station spacing and size and length of trains the DC Metro is more akin to a S-Bahn system than a proper metro (at least from my experience in Germany). The only difference being that only very few S-Bahn systems are actually fully grade seperated.
I live in Pittsburgh, PA and we would KILL to have this system! Instead most of our train infrastructure is rotting away and is in desperate need of an upgrade. Along with new mediocre BRT projects, get our regional rail back, and a absolute overhaul of our T network, Pittsburgh can become amazing again.
I used to live in Pittsburgh and work for Port Authority...it's a shame, compared to SEPTA where I now work, and Philly is a Great City to live in as well!!
@@MichaelCook-bw4mr -- it was stupid to rename the system PRT (Pittsburgh Regional Transit) when they were originally called PAT (Port Authority Transit), then Port Authority now PRT. Should have gone back to PAT (Pittsburgh Area Transit) which is more familiar.
@@sonicboy678 the main culprit is that the State of NJ did not want to pay. Also there was another proposed Corridor to Mount Holly where the upper middle class opposed it.
would love to see this one happen. For as close as Glassboro and Rowan University are to Philly, the bus ride sitting in traffic would routinely take over 90 minutes.
I commuted from Philadelphia to Millville, New Jersey and having a train line would’ve made my life a lot better. I either had to take a two hour bus commute or an hour commute.
If the PATCO line had been in any other country it would have been extended to the U Penn Medical Center decades ago. Instead, both the city and Penn agreed to slow down an extremely busy bus route so that upper middle class working at the hospital complex can use a massive parking garage. Also destroyed the famous Civic Center building for these parking buildings.
Nice idea but it will never happen. It would have to tunnel under Rittenhouse Square and then thru quiet residential streets, cross under the Schuylkill River and somehow dead end at U Penn Medical or go to 30th street Station. Never in our lifetimes sorry.
Like the original comment said, in any other country this would not be reason to simply not do it. The US is in the stone age for transit.@@ryanstevens2722
@@ryanstevens2722 It has to be in deep tunnel anyway since it must go under the river. It just goes due west and then turns after the river. And there is plenty of space for a station between 33rd and 34th streets. I used to work in the area for years.
There's basically zero relationship between any parking garages at Penn, the speed of any bus routes, and any decision to extend Patco to University City.
Philly could be the single most urbanist and walkable city in the US if the politicians and influencers didn't have terminal car brain. It kills me to see such great bones rot like this.
The riots and the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021 crippled Phila. for probably years to come. Most Regional Rail stations parking lots are only about half as full as they were before 2020.
The weird bit is, I only learnt about the pronunciation due to the local Reading Cinemas here. It's awesome in a bizarre way that Reading Railroad eventually evolved into one of the biggest cinema chains in South-East Australia, but I'm not complaining.
@@RMTransitSome stations can even fit 8-car trains on the Market-Frankford Line. Though, all trains are 6 cars long. At 15th Street, the platforms are 8 cars long, but when a train pulls into the station, it's shorter than the full length of the platform.
Past tense of "read"; not present tense. A long time ago, people played the game MONOPOLY and the city was much more prominent in the news, culture, movies, education, industry, history, etc. People used to know how to properly ask for the Reading Terminal Market.
It's nice to hear somebody say nice things about Philadelphia, especially Philadelphia transit. Like the old saying goes, "Philadelphia isn't as bad as Philadelphians say it is." I must a small correction: Broad Street Subway Cars have a maximum length of eight cars, as the cars are 67 1/2' long and the platforms 550' long. At present they are only run in five-car sets and SEPTA has only 125 BIV cars. When the line was originally planned, and when City Hill Station was originally built, the system was to have the same loading gauge as the Market Street Subway-Elevated, but would operate ten-car trains of 55' car trains. City Hall Station Station was built before the rest of the line to the Market Street line's standards, but when the rest was built, it was to a standard similar to the BMT lines in New York City. PATCO has its origins in the Bridge Line built by the Delaware Bridge Commission, which built the original route from Broadway to 8th & Market. For a time, Bridge Line trains would run from Broadway to 8th & Market, then along the Broad-Ridge Spur and Broad Street Line express tracks to Girard. The 8th - Locust Subway that PATCO uses was originally built by the city to connect to the Broad-Ridge Spur, then continue west across the River to eventually become an elevated line over Woodland Avenue. It never got further than 18th Street and was eventually handed over to PATCO. (N.b. The City of Philadelphia still owns the Broad Street Subway and 8th - Locust Subway, but leases them to other operators, hence why one may see the city's shield on Broad Street Line cars) There's a whole convoluted history behind the development of Philadelphia's rapid transit system, most of which through 1974 was well-chronicled by Robert P. Sechler in his monograph "Speed lines to city and suburbs," which you can find easily enough searching around the internet. Incidentally, PATCO will add, or perhaps more accurately regain, a fifth Philadelphia station when Franklin Square reopens later this year. I truly hate to think so, but I believe that the prospects for the Roosevelt Boulevard Subway are dim. SEPTA has committed to Trolley Modernization and extensive fleet replacements with Reimagining Regional Rail waiting next in line. That's all going to be incredibly expensive and SEPTA remains a pauper among large city transit operators. Adding the gargantuan expensive of the Roosevelt Boulevard Subway will require a nigh-miraculous increase in capital funding, which would require support from the City of Philadelphia and Commonwealth of Philadelphia in excess of what they are likely to offer. It's a superb proposal that people quickly become enthusiastic for in abstract, but funding it will be a monstrous challenge, even with Capital Investment Grant program funding. I wish it the best, but it will be very hard to get. And remember, you can't get the Heaven on the Frankford El, because the Frankford El goes straight to Frankford.
@@paulbrommer6046 We could easily build the Roosevelt Blvd subway for cheap and do all of SEPTA's other projects if they weren't trying to build it out to the suburbs who aren't even going to use it. Logically speaking, the metro extension should terminate in northeast Philadelphia where the population density is much higher. Instead the current proposal wants to triple the length and cost of the project just to appeal to suburbanites who have no use for it
@@moosesandmeese969 At the very most, extend it out to Red Lion and the Northeast Philly airport, but I would be in favor of terminating it at Welsh-Grant, the end of a proposed Phase 2
@@PhilliesNostalgia No that's a huge waste of money and nobody is going to use it. Terminate the metro just before Pennypack park. Metros are for cities, not suburbs. Philadelphia doesn't need to waste more money on subsidizing rich suburbanites.
Philly was a city of transportation firsts! According to the American Society of Civil Engineers, the Frankford Avenue Bridge in the Holmesburg neighborhood was the first stone arch bridge built in the country and is the oldest surviving roadway bridge in the US as well! It was built in 1697 at the request of William Penn to connect his mansion with the then new city of Philadelphia and was an important link on the King's Highway that linked Philly with cities like Trenton, NYC, and Boston. So famous politicians like John Adams and George Washington used the bridge, like Washington when he crossed it on his way to his inauguration in NYC in 1789. The first steam-ferry service in the world was actually in Philly and went to Burlington, NJ. It was created by John Fitch! The first successful trial run of his steamboat Perseverance was made in August 1787, in the presence of delegates from the Constitutional Convention. With this boat, he carried up to 30 paying passengers on numerous round-trip voyages between Philadelphia and Burlington during the summer of 1790. Basically he wanted to make his own version of a Watt engine (there were no Watt engines in North America as the British refused to export them) and he got Henry Voigt to help him build a working model and place it on the boat The first hot air balloon flown in the Americas was launched from the former Walnut Street Jail in Philly on January 9, 1793, witnessed by George Washington, James Monroe, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and James Madison! It was piloted by the French aeronaut Jean-Pierre Blanchard, who was also the first to cross the English Channel in a hot air balloon with American co-pilot John Jeffries in 1785! It landed in Deptford, NJ. And just outside Philly, the Crum Creek was once home to the Leiper Railroad, the continent's first chartered railway, first operational non-temporary railway, first well-documented railroad, and first constructed railroad also meant to be permanent! It was a 'family business-built' horse drawn railroad of 0.75 miles that was constructed in 1810 after quarry owner, Thomas Leiper, failed to obtain a charter with legal rights-of-way to instead build his desired canal along Crum Creek. It went from Crum Creek to Ridley Creek where quarry stone where it would then be loaded on boats to Chester for market.
So excited to see PATCO mentioned. Most Philadelphians don’t know about but those of us traveling from Southern New Jersey love its convenience and its connectedness to Philly’s railways. It could use an update but it’s indispensable.
Thanks for the Philly love. I took most of those transit systems while I lived in Philly and S.Jersey. You can get almost everywhere in the region without a car. Before I retired and moved, I took the Riverline into Camden, then PATCO into town. Just wished the riverline ran more frequently during rush hour. Other than that, in 40 years, I never had a problem on transit in my hometown.
Not NRG Stadium…it’s NRG station which serves the South Philadelphia Sports Complex which has multiple stadiums (Citizens Bank Park, Lincoln Financial Field, Wells Fargo Center)
One thing. Newark DE isn’t pronounced the same way as the city with the same name in NJ. The Delaware city is pronounced as if it were two separate words. New Ark. As in ‘The old one broke, so Noah went to the Canadian Tire and bought a New Ark’. 😁
SEPTA also serves Northern Delaware, FYI The 4 Delaware SEPTA stops have about hourly service at Newark, Churchmans Crossing, Wilmington, and Claymont, all in Delaware with service through Delaware County PA to Philadelphia.
1:41 I know you're not a native to Philly so you'll have to forgive me but I believe you meant NRG Station, which is the subway station that serves the sports stadiums in Philadelphia and is a vital point of entry if you're trying to get to an Eagles, Phillies or sixers game without driving otherwise awesome vid
I've found that the biggest issue with SEPTA's regional rail is the timings - they don't run after 11pm (which can be a pain when getting off a late-night amtrak at 30th st) and the NJ Transit connections in Trenton don't line up, making you wait upwards of 40 minutes sometimes. I will say they have the best gift/apparel store of any transit agency I've seen, though.
Newark, DE isn't pronounced the same way as Newark, NJ! It's pronounced "New-ark". As mentioned, PATCO was one of the first in the world to have ATO, it was the first to have ATO in North America, as PATCO opened in 1969 while BART opened in 1972! And not only does PATCO have commuter rail-style seating, but also, many PATCO features were actually included in the M1/M3s that were built for the LIRR and MNR (MNR's predecessors Penn Central and Conrail), like similar motors! Both the original PATCO rolling stock and the M1/M3s were made by the Budd Company, with both rolling stock being built in 1968 (M3s entered service in the 1980s), while GE designed the motors. The M1/3s were designed for 100 mph, but they only achieved 80 mph in service due to track and signaling limitations. The M1/3s even included support for ATO like PATCO, however, ATO was never used on those trains on the LIRR. The M1/3s were the catalyst of change for the LIRR and MNR systems as it required all stations in the electrified zone to be rebuilt for high-level boarding between 1966 and 1968 (stations in the LIRR's diesel zone wouldn't have high-level boarding until the 1990s for the C3s), and the increased power demand forced the LIRR to update its third rail power supply from 650 V DC to 750 V DC to take advantage of the car's performance. The PATCO ATO is an analog system that makes use of pulse code cab signaling supplied by Union Switch & Signal. The cab signals supply one of five different speeds (20 mph, 30 mph, 40 mph, 65 mph or full stop) and the on-board ATO gear supplies maximum acceleration or maximum braking force to reach that target speed. GE wasn't prepared for the constant rapid acceleration and deceleration of PATCO, this caused the motors to easily break down during its early days, with GE having to repeatedly work with PATCO's shops to overhaul motors. And yup, the entirety of SEPTA's network is electrified, but it used to have diesel services! It became a fully electrified system because simply, they cut all their diesel services instead of electrifying. The electrical system on the former PRR side is owned and operated by Amtrak, while the electrification on the Reading side is owned by SEPTA. The Amtrak system was originally built by the PRR between 1915 and 1938. The SEPTA-owned system was originally built by the Reading starting in 1931. The two systems are not electrically connected. After construction of the Center City Commuter Connection, the two electrical systems now meet near Girard Avenue at a “phase break,” a short section of unpowered track, which trains coast across. This gap is needed because the two electrical systems are not kept in synchronization with each other. For the diesel services, Conrail operated four diesel SEPTA-branded routes under contract throughout the 1970s! There used to be an Allentown via Bethlehem, Quakertown, and Lansdale service and this was gradually cut back. Allentown-Bethlehem service ended in 1979, Bethlehem-Quakertown service ended in early July 1981, and Quakertown-Lansdale service ended later that month. Pottsville line service to Pottsville, via Reading and Norristown, ended in late July 1981. West Trenton service previously ran to Newark Penn and this was cut back to West Trenton in early July 1981. The final service, Fox Chase-Newtown service, initially also ended in early July 1981, re-established in October of that year as the Fox Chase Rapid Transit Line, which then ended in 1983, thus today's Fox Chase Line just ends at Fox Chase. The services were phased out due to low ridership, a lack of funding outside the five-county area of SEPTA, withdrawal of Conrail as a contract carrier, aging equipment that needed replacement, and a lack of SEPTA-owned diesel maintenance infrastructure. The death knell for any resumption of diesel service was the Center City Commuter Connection, which lacks the necessary ventilation for exhaust-producing locomotives!
I don't know what happened but in the past several years I've noticed SEPTA reps at all of the stations and on the trains are EXTREMELY helpful and friendly. Kudos to the executive leadership team for turning around what was once a frequently dour experience if you had a question.
Great Video! As a Philly native, now living in the suburbs, I just thought biggish cities had a regional rail network like ours. And, for all the complaining about SEPTA we do, it is a remarkable system regardless.
Wow, SEPTA really does punch above its weight when it comes to transit service in the US. A direct rail connection to the airport that NY should be very envious of (and build)!
A word of caution. While SEPTA does run through on the Regional rail, it is not guaranteed. It recommended that the passenger ask the conductor to be sure. Historically that was true, about ten years ago SEPTA switched it up for more flexibility. For example historically, Trenton through Center City to Chestnut Hill East. this is no longer guaranteed. Sometime the Eastbound Reading Lines stop at Temple University. As is the case with the Pennsy Lines stopping at either 30th Street or University City (University of Pennsylvania Medical Center/Children's Hospital of Philadelphia).
Love Philly. Glad to see it getting some good buzz. I've only used a few parts of its public transit network, but what I've used was really good. The I've only been on the trolley when it's underground, and riding it felt a bit like the mine-car chase in Temple of Doom. But it got the job done, for sure. Man, now I want to go back to Philly.
Thanks for describing the River Line as an interurban! Yup, the River LINE as an interurban definitely provides a crucial connection for the Delaware River communities! A cool community along the River LINE is Bordentown. Bordentown is one of my favorite places in NJ. Bordentown is a colonial suburb, Bordentown's first recorded European settlement was made in 1682, and then it was renamed after Joseph Borden in 1717! Bordentown is filled with transportation and revolutionary history! In 1734, Joseph Borden started a stage line and packet service between Bordentown and Philly. In the 1830s, the Camden and Amboy Railroad (NJ's first railroad) used the John Bull locomotive which is now in the Smithsonian National Museum of American History! And In 1834, the Delaware and Raritan Canal (which helped transport anthracite coal to NYC during much of the 19th and early 20th centuries) had their Lock 1 at Bordentown. Bordentown was once the home of many revolutionaries. Patience Lovell Wright, the US's first female sculptor, was creating wax busts in King George's court in England. Patriots like Francis Hopkinson (a signer of the US Declaration of Independence) and Thomas Paine (who authored Common Sense and The American Crisis) also lived in Bordentown. Thomas Paine's home in Bordentown between 1783 until his death in 1809 was the only house he ever bought. Besides American patriots, Bordentown was also the home of Napoleon's older brother Joseph Bonaparte and Joseph's daughter Charlotte who did landscape paintings while in NJ. But more importantly, Bordentown was home to NJ's first free school by Clara Barton in 1852, who later founded the American Red Cross in 1881! When the River Line first opened in 2004, it didn't have a connection with the ACL at Pennsauken! The Pennsauken Transit Center wouldn't open until 2013! Here's a little more history on the Atlantic City Line: The line's Delair Bridge was built by the PRR and opened in 1896, it was the first bridge of any sort between Philly and NJ! By its height in the 1920s, there were no fewer than three competing railroad Main Lines connecting the Atlantic City resort with Philadelphia, the Atlantic City Railroad, owned by the Reading Company, the Camden and Atlantic, and the West Jersey and Seashore (WJ&S), with the latter two owned by the PRR. Competition was fierce and the ACRR and C&A lines boasted some of the fastest trains in the world, while the WJ&S was a pioneering example of railroad electrification. The Great Depression caused the first consolidation of the various competing lines into the new Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines. By the late 1960s, the surviving former Camden and Atlantic City Main Line was reduced to a commuter service funded by the NJDOT. After Conrail took over PRSL rail services in South Jersey in 1976 (which also included Ocean City and Cape May) and NJDOT ceased these services in 1981, Amtrak and NJT struck a deal where the main line to Atlantic City would be upgraded by Amtrak, Amtrak would run an Atlantic City Express to AC from places like NYC, Philly, and DC, while also building commuter stations for a NJT service on the line. The line reopened in 1989, and during this time, NJT rail service was between Lindenwold and Atlantic City. Cherry Hill opened in 1994 as Amtrak switched their local stop from Lindenwold to Cherry Hill due to low ridership at Lindenwold. After Amtrak discontinued the AC Express in 1995, NJT extended its service from Lindenwold to Philadelphia, now stopping at Cherry Hill and of course later Pennsauken in 2013.
I've been looking forward to this overview! Thanks and well done. Philly's transit network has incredible potential, giving the Regional Rail system good frequency would turn it into a crown jewel. I hope they can pull it off.
Great video good sir. Nice to hear Philly and Septa get some praise. I grew up next to the El and call it my old friend. Im really excited to see the new cars. Oh and thanks for pointing how big the BSL cars are.
@RMTransit you came to Philly? You came to Philly? Thank you so much to doing Philly transit, my home town, with all its real virtue, potential, and grit. * Good: through running regional rail in Center City with connectivity to El, BSL and Ridge Ave * Good: the Subway surface (trolly or light rail) lines connecting West and Southwest * Good: restoration of classic trolleys on #15 line * Bad: loss of several trolly lines in favor of bus routes including the 23 running from Germantown Ave all the way down 12th and 11th streets. Not great region rail frequencies Bad: Station cleanings need to be more frequent. Ugly: closure of several downtown concourses due to “issues” which disrupt underground connectivity between PATCO and BSL Roosevelt Blvd extension and a northwest subway expansion really would help expand heavy rail access through the city. Also, would 24 hour rail/trolley service be beneficial, possibly if the demand is there. I believe the busses do run 24/7 though
The first bad listing, you can thank a depot fire im the 60’s or 70’s that deleted a big chunk of the trolley fleet. For the second bad listing.. yeah I agree w/ you it’s kinda dirty on my way home from school every day
A great overview of my home system! Growing up here, I and many people take this network so much for granted, especially being near NYC and DC. I didn't realize how much of a gem Philly's system was until I moved elsewhere in the state and discovered that rail networks just really don't exist to this degree elsewhere.
Excellent presentation. I communted on PRR and Reading lines back in the day before the SEPTA Regional Rail was created. The improvements from that time have been tremendous. The Jefferson Station interconnection really made interconnection seamless. I love Philly and would move back there if my family circumstances were different.
@@nonewherelistens1906 The separate Reading and PRR commuter rail lines made for an interesting situation in Chestnut Hill, where there are two stations, East and West, only about 1/3 mile apart. One went to Reading Terminal and the other to Suburban Station. Now they're connected by the tunnel.
Great video! Shout out to Alan Fisher! I'm a lifelong Philadelphian and have been riding SEPTA for nearly 60 years and here NEEDS to be a Roosevelt Blvd. extention NOW! THAT should be the priority!
LOVED this, a feature on the transit of my favorite city! Philadelphia is an underrated gem of a city. But I have to make a note on the pronuciation fo the town I was born in: Newark, Delaware. It is not pronounced like the city in New Jersey. We say /ˈnjuːɑːrk/ NEW-ark.
As a lifelong native of the Philadelphia suburbs, I've had many opportunities to see the trolleys, trains, and buses of SEPTA. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to ride them many times, as there isn't much need (at present) for me to ride into or around the city.
There's a lot of discussion in transit circles about the relative benefits of different modes of transit, but one comparison that I find lacking is that between metro and regional rail. In a larger metro area, what should the balance between metro and regional be? Should there be two complementary systems covering the whole city? Should the metro focus on the city center and leave farther out trips to the regional rail? I'd be very happy if you could make a video looking at that contrast, and at the thin and only debatably existent line between metro and regional rail in an urban area.
Have a look at Paris and difference in what the RER/Transilien (Suburban Rail and Regional Rail) and Metro (Subway) cover. One of the best examples to follow
@@BLACKSTA361 Isn't Paris currently expanding their metro much deeper into the suburbs? I'm not sure having the metro only in the very core of a massive urban area is ideal.
Patco is interesting, because it uses large subway cars. PATH cars are significantly smaller. PATH cars i was told were more like the IRT than the IND.
Thanks for covering the extensive transit options we have here in Philadelphia. I grew up in west Philadelphia first riding the 34 trolley to get to center city. Our family then moved to a close in suburb in Delaware County and had the connivence of a suburban bus line to 69th street Terminal. I liked riding transit and did not even learn to drive till just before I graduated college. I have ridden on almost all the various lines you showed in the video. Even though there have been many budget issues over the years we are lucky to have such an extensive public transit system. This is one of the few places in the USA where you could get around to most places without owning a car. I hope we continue to be such a great public transit accessible area.
Terrific video! I grew up near the Beechwood-Brookline stop of the Norristown HSL, but moved away from the Phila. area decades ago. Great to see such positive coverage of a metro area with such potential! (If I may, please, one correction: Newark (DE) is pronounced "NEW-ARK," as opposed to the city in NJ pronounced "NEW-erk.")
good summary of the Philly rail network. I'm a life long fan of building the Roosevelt blvd extension. It could easily attract 100,000 riders a day and take thousands of cars off the dangerous, congested blvd.
Some notes -- 1) PATCO hasn't recovered from pandemic related declines in ridership as well as other transit systems. At least some of this has to do with security concerns. 12th-13th/Locust and 15th-16th/Locust stations are located within an underground system of pedestrian walkways known as the concourse. Security in the area outside of the station barriers is the responsibility of the City of Philadelphia, and the PHL PD are doing little to nothing in terms of keeping the concourse safe. 2) Service levels on the Atlantic City Rail Line suck. There are several reasons, but a prominent factor is the opening of the Delair bridge (crossing the delaware River) for marititme traffic. NJ Transit has no desire address this with the appropriate regulators. The 2022 NJ Transit ACRL Service Analysis study concluded that no service enhancements could occur without significant capital investments. 3) The Riverline DMU vehicles have had problems with the motive system for well over a year. In 2023, the private-sector operator was forced to withdrawl 15 minute peak period service for a while due to a lack of operable vehicles. Service reliability continues to be a problem. NJ state level officials have called for legislative investigations.
Septa could be *so* much better and Alan Fisher did a video about that. The joint transit association also mentioned subway extensions should happen. And I think there are a lot of places that could get the streetcars back
I use a combination of PATCO and the Riverline to get out to my job in the suburbs and return back to the city at night. I love Philly because, even if my commute gets a little long, I get to live in a relatively affordable urban center and quite easily live car-free, which is a combination that is really difficult to find in North America (and as much we self-flagellate, a lot of the world as well).
Happy to see a video about my area. But referring to Delaware Newark as Newerk was rough. We say New ark to refer to that one to differentiate from the one in NJ.
As someone who grew up in a PATCO town and lived in Philly for 4 years, we are definitely spoiled as Americans when it comes to transit. However, on the New Jersey side I wish we had more expansive commuter rail like in PA. Also fun fact you can take a free transfer ferry on the River Line which runs from Trenton to Camden. Last note, I was in Boston recently and I was very impressed with their transit. Nothing beats the Philly buses, but I actually think I liked the rail better in Boston. Lots of dead spots in Philly but the buses cover them all.
The Broad Street Line has a max length of 8 car trains, except at Fern Rock, which can maaaaaybe fit 6, but for all practical purposes can only fit 5. (It was built 30 years after the rest of the line, and based on the small area it serves combined with its large parking lot, it seems like it was built as a park and ride. Similar in origin but different in function to 148th st on the 3 train in NYC.) The line is currently set up for a maximum of 5 car trains. Currently the limit on capacity is the yard at Fern Rock and rolling stock, with about 125 cars in the fleet. An additional 40 to 60 could be added by using the stub tracks above Erie (4 5 car trains, south of Walnut Locust (2 5 car trains,) and at NRG stadium (6 5 car trains, 2 each on the upper platform tracks). Each car is 67.5 feet long - 20.5 meters
Might I suggest How We Get Around when it comes to Philly as well? He's only recently started up, be he's almost entirely dedicated to the history, structure and function of the Philly transit network, down to the smaller stations.
Philly has lots of transit options and great city, but Chicago is (by far) the rail capital of the US. That includes its three train transit systems (and Amtrak too), the last interurban in the US, are in Chicago metro area with hundreds of miles of commuter rail and hundreds of stations across three states. Some like the L and Southshore train (to Indiana) are expanding. NYC metro has far more commuter rail options than any other metro area.
Chicago inherited the legacy commuter lines of many railroads that served that city. Philly only had two (because it was smaller and geographically compressed).
The suburban rail network was built by the Pennsylvania and Reading railroads. When the Penn Central went bankrupt in the 1960s they, like all of the other PC routes, became a part of Amtrack. In the 1980s the Reagan administration chose to abandon regional rail systems, which is why SEPTA took over the lines around Philadelphia. Oh, it is the Warminster regional rail line that goes out to Philadelphia International Airport.
That Broadway extension, plus the new line on the NJ side, and the improved scheduling and fare structures for the regional/commuter trains sounds like they would make for improvements that amplify eachother since it's all one big network. A couple of things I've seen suggested, that sound great, are extending the River Line from Trenton to West Trenton (connection creating a better network) & PATCO to Penn Medicine & the trolleys' 37th Street station. And of course extending/improving the ends of the tram & trolley lines so they have real good interchange stations with the other rail transit.
It’s worth noting that the Broad Street Line also has a top speed limit of 70mph that is reached regularly by express services, as it was built to the same specifications as PATCO. Also, something worth noting that wasn’t mentioned is that there is 5G service in the Broad Street Line and Market-Frankford Line tunnels, which is something that is rare in most cities.
As a Philadelphian, one thing I like about Jefferson Station is that the Western most exit (12th St) is Reading Terminal itself. You enter Reading Terminal as if its 1984 all over again but instead of going up to the trains, you now go down to Jefferson Station. There also a little passeageway to both the market and Fashion District Mall.
The line to AC was electrified by the WJ&S from Camden to AC via Newfield, not via Winslow. The current route was never electrified, and paralleled the third rail lines going into AC from just outside of Pleasantville. Needed to add that since that line is thrown around so much when talking about south jersey in a transit perspective. Its true but not in the current alignment of things. Other than that great video!
I am a native of NYC who generally finds that Philadelphia region rail service to be quite good, especially once they exapanded the Broad Street subway south to the stadiums and arena. My biggest complaint was the transfer from the Broad Street line to the Market-Frankfort Line at City Hall/15th Street. The signage is old and difficult to follow while the connecting path is serpentine.
Definitely a transit enthusiast here though the past year’s experiences - broken down regional rail trains, trains that went the wrong way (!) due to points problems, broken down trolleys stuck in the tunnel, and general poor reliability of the network due to staff shortages and equipment problems have made me switch to commuting by car. 😢 it’s sad because this could be a great network but all too often fails to be reliable and punctual enough
Great overview! Better Regional Rail trains with automatic doors can't come soon enough. I've never boarded a RR train without seeing at least one fellow rider panicking to find an open door.
The Hitachi train looks great! You are slimmer; you look good. I saw the REM in Montreal. It looks nice. I took Via Rail from Montreal to Quebec City and back. Their trains are great! Much better than Amtrak trains. I'm in the Adirondack train now from Montreal to NYC. We're stopped due to a person who got hit by a freight train. Long wait, but we got some free snacks and drinks.
Septa regional rail is impressive in its size, but too narrow in its purpose. Its purpose is to bring people into Center City Philadelphia for work, which it has done well, but office work is on the decline, and the lines might have very limited utility for anything else. It does not really interconnect the region. Even with greater frequencies, it's hard to imagine a lot of people using regional rail for trips that require travel into Center City to Connect with another train go to someplace else. Some regional rail stations are at walkable locations, most aren't.
Patco allowed me to live in Philly for years and still own a car in NJ. I actually worked for them for like 3 weeks during the pandemic, but they laid my whole department off
I don’t know why SEPTA doesn’t connect the station at Citizens Bank Park and Lincoln Financial Field to the southern line that goes to Delaware. It would be huge to bring the thousands of Phillies/Eagles fans from the Wilmington area to there. If you want to do the train it would take almost 2 hours instead of the 1 hour it would take with traffic on the roads.
Another minor correction. The primary route between Camden and Atlantic City via Winslow Junction was never electrified. That was an alternate line that went by way of Newfield. It was an early PRR third rail installation. But traffic levels on this line never justified electrified service and the third rail was later removed.
as much as we like to hate on septa here in philly, it's pretty impressive what they're able to provide considering funding has always been lacking. also, many of the issues folks have with septa, are actually just philly issues, again due to how poor the city is as a whole. great video man, nailed all the terminology, neighborhoods, and pronunciations!
Nice video! One thing tho I think you may have gotten some misinformation from somewhere but the NJT Atlantic city line never was electrified,it has been worked by locomotive hauled diesel trains for over 50 years with the acceptation of the BUDD RDC MUs on some services in the 80s
Weird, poor M Line (Norristown High Speed Line)! Why are there no plans to extent the L on the M right-of-way to e.g. Bryn Mawr or Hughes Park (similar to Hamburg suburban U1)? This would be the best first step to drastically increase the ridership, so one day the KOP extension (as part of the L) would get its funding?
The major complaint, especially with the suburban buses and suburban rail is the frequency. I think that buses on all the network should come every 15 minutes and every half hour in the evenings, I think that the regional rail should come every half an hour or at least every 20 minutes and should be 24 hours with limited service during overnights. They should also look at rebuilding former elevated subway lines, such as in south Philly, the Roosevelt Boulevard extension, and all other avenues where subways and trains used to be or the tracks continue to be reactivity lines, especially the media Westchester line and the Reading Pottstown line or Allentown and Newtown or just reactivate all of the former regional real network and given that it’s all electrified, at least 90% of it is the remainder can be electrified and Septa can be the best commuter rail/public transportation system in the country
As others have noted, frequency, especially on the weekends and mid-day, is an abysmal glaring flaw, particularly on the regional rail lines. Weekend airport service is hourly, which is just ridiculous. Got in from Phoenix on a Saturday recently, and got to the platform just as the train was leaving. An hour wait! Half hour weekend service should be the minimum. Weekday service is every half hour, which is bearable, but every 15 minutes would put it in line with other airport's rail connections. Weekend and mid-day service on the other regional rail lines is just as bad, if not worse, with gaps of 2 hours on some of the lines. They say the demand is not there. Well, any low demand is a direct result of the terrible schedules. I would gladly use the regional rail to reach other parts of the city, but will not do so if there is an hour or more wait for a train if I happen to miss one. And they should have added another stop on the MFL (now the L line) at 19th St. years ago, as not having a stop between 15th St. and 30th St. doesn't make any sense - that distance between stops is just too long. On a positive note re: the entire SEPTA system, I'll add that Philly's late night/overnight/weekend service is often better than many cities regular weekday service. (excluding regional rail)
They don't say the demand is not there, they just dont have the funding nor the staffing to provide more service. Look up "reimagining regional rail phase 2" to see the service that septa wants to provide.
Every time I see Philly's transit network I see some points where it could be made better; 1) this might sound like a sort of silly or crazy idea, but to me it makes sense to build a connection, in tunnel, from Jefferson all the way to Camden. I know that on the other side of Schuylkill the state is NJ, but it's all part of the same metro area, and incidentally, up North NJT & NNR do have joint service (on the Hoboken to Port Jervis route). So why not having something similar between SEPTA & NJT? The idea would be simple (it isn't cheap of course, especially because rsil related construction in the American continent is much more expensive than here in Europe); on one side, electrify and upgrade de Atlantic City line to higher speed (100 or110 Mph) and higher frequency. It would be a thru service that would end somewhere on the Pennsylvania side. The same standard should be applied to the Glassboro line, also ending on the Penn side! 2) on the Pennsylvania side, I know there are projects to serve both Reading and Bethlehem (it should go a little further, to Allentown). Maybe with the exception of speed (I don't know if the geometry of the old lines that are supposed to be reactivated allow all those high speeds), I would apply the same standards as per the NJ side. In fact Reading & Bethlehem/Allentown could be the Penn side termini of the NJ lines, allowing for the creation of what I call "High Speed RER/Regional service '; 3) I know there might be other projects, such as the reconnection of West Trenton to the NJT network, but that seems to be a long term thing; 4) final considerations, a net wide level boarding project (high platforms) should be considerd by SEPTA, toghether wide a fare integration/single travel card project. Also rolling stock should be replaced. The various generstions of Silverliner and loco hauled trains just look plain outdated. I would replaced it with EMUs. Something like the new Stadler ones being produced to Spain's Renfe.
One other slight bone I have to pick with SEPTA, after visiting Philly a number of times due to having a close friend who lives there: the trains tend not to be on time. I'm not sure why that's the case, but whatever the reason may be, I've joked with my friend that there are two times: the time on the clock, and SEPTA time. My roast of SEPTA aside, I admire how extensive their system is. The bones of a great system are there.
The good news is that the SEPTA app allows you to track your train for any delays. It doesn't help the actual delay itself along, but at least you have an idea of what to expect as far as a wait
As a Delawarean, I feel the need to point out that we hate when people pronounce "Newark" like the one in New Jersey. We pronounce it correctly :) On-topic, the Wilmington/Newark line is wonderfully convenient for commuters and the fare cost is roughly the same as the cost of gas, but it would be nice if service frequency could be increased/extended. Only six trains per day go beyond Wilmington and there is no service on weekends, which makes it much more difficult to visit the city for sporting/concert events or general weekend entertainment.
Correction: The Broad Street Line actually uses up to 8-car trains!
They do not. Only 5 car trains for the locals & expresses. 2 car trains for the Ridge Av Spur
Most BSL stations can't fit 8-10 cars
Most BSL platforms can accommodate 6-7 cars but most only utilize 2-5 cars
We have the capacity to run 8 cars, but they run in 5-car trains 99.99% of the time. And like you said, 2-car trains for the ridge spur.
If PTC ever ran 8 car train sets on this line, it was prior to the opening of Fern Rock. The yard size limits the train platform length to 6 cars and in practice 5 car sets have been normal since the 90s. Many stations including Walnut-Locust and Girard have had parts of their platforms walled off and they can’t accommodate 8 car trains now.
For having a historic budget of $3, SEPTA still continues to make that money go far. Great video, glad to have helped!
Hello there Alan!
If they'd up the budget to $4, could they afford to run more than 1 train per year to the airport?
Thanks for your insights Alan!
Maybe they should start a Patreon :D
the 50 cents more than amtrak goes a LONG way.
"Lots of potential" is definitely the way to describe SEPTA. We have the bones of a world-class transit network but there's no meat on them.
After going to Philly a week ago, I see it. With a decent budget and higher frequencies it could be amazing. I dont know about the compitency of SEPTA but I also hope that they aren't as bad as the MTA in that regard where they can't add 5 vending machines to a station without a billion dollars in funding.
philadelphia 😅
Same as Chicago and Boston
Philly is one of the cities really baring the scars from the nasty and shasy and disturbing politics of the 70s and 8ps. There's abandonded tunnels you can explore that were meant to be part of an even larger metro system. Instead, the federal government literally fucking bombed the city I kid you not...
It's so sad most white Americans still have not realized the reality of what happened then
@@katherinespezia4609 It needs proper funding which it's never had.
SEPTA is a remarkable well run system for how awful its budget has been historically.
So true. What’s cool is, living in Philly you can get to almost anywhere in the Southeast region without a car. I’ve pretty much have done it!
@@AmazingJayB51 Alot of my classmates in Community College of Philly did just that. Never even owned a car their entire life. Many of whom were in their 40s too.
Yeah... I mean, it's not like every city in the state has anywhere near the transportation system philthy has.
@salakast its reliable I wouldn't use it after hours
As a Philly native who has also lived in Seattle, I would often get frustrated by the amount of coverage/praise Seattle's transit gets amongst the transit enthusiasts crowd whereas Philly seems to be all but forgotten in comparison. I love what Seattle's doing but Philly has objectively better transit in terms of coverage. Glad you made this video!
People tend to ooh and aah over new things over anything old, even if the old thing is actually more functional.
@@1978dkelly haha so right!!
That’s a recurring theme. West Coast people praise the transit and urban planning of places like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle only because they’ve never visited the old cities of the Northeast.
@@michaelimbesi2314I know folks like that exist in Portland where I am for sure but I would never even bother to compare Portland to places like NYC, Chicago, and Philadelphia. Our system is good for a city our size and is far from perfect. I also have difficulty praising Seattle's light rail expansion too much since it really should be a metro system instead. Ultimately though it's getting the attention because they are expanding massively which unfortunately is not common in the US.
@@russelldinkins5801 Coverage, frequency, speed, it's not even close. Philadelphia prefers real trains and heavy rail rather than trams that are slow as molasses
SEPTA is probably the closest system to an S-Bahn in the US, it through runs in the city and is fully electrified. (it still has major problems like frequency)
Also the trains are a horror compared to the S-Bahn trains i know from Germany
I love regional rail but it could be so much better, missing my train is genuinely always a wrench in my day because of the frequency issues. And the amount/length of holdups at Zoo Junction is downright unacceptable.
Honestly though while Septa is good, I think if you wanna see something S-bahn like, youre better off looking at the Mid Century metro systems which are basically S-bahns but built from the ground up rather than converting existing lines to subway standards. The biggest example of this has got to be BART in San Fransisco with its central tunnel in San Fransisco and vast radiating lines and high speeds, and generally matching frequencies to an S-bahn.
Arguably, many cities' metro systems are configured like S-Bahns. DC, Baltimore (almost), Atlanta, etc. all have mostly suburban, through-running metro lines, whereas in Philly the metro lines are confined to the city proper and the regional rail network functions as a completely separate S-Bahn.
@@drdewott9154 I thought the same when visiting DC. Judging by the station spacing and size and length of trains the DC Metro is more akin to a S-Bahn system than a proper metro (at least from my experience in Germany). The only difference being that only very few S-Bahn systems are actually fully grade seperated.
literally yesterday i was wondering if you'd ever made a comprehensive look at Philly's system exactly like this
I live in Pittsburgh, PA and we would KILL to have this system! Instead most of our train infrastructure is rotting away and is in desperate need of an upgrade. Along with new mediocre BRT projects, get our regional rail back, and a absolute overhaul of our T network, Pittsburgh can become amazing again.
Pittsburgh needs the “spine line” to Oakland from downtown. It should have been built back in the 1990s.
Make Pittsburgh’s transit great again?
I used to live in Pittsburgh and work for Port Authority...it's a shame, compared to SEPTA where I now work, and Philly is a Great City to live in as well!!
@@MichaelCook-bw4mr -- it was stupid to rename the system PRT (Pittsburgh Regional Transit) when they were originally called PAT (Port Authority Transit), then Port Authority now PRT. Should have gone back to PAT (Pittsburgh Area Transit) which is more familiar.
@@drewk1514 I totally agree with you!!!👍👍
Talk to Bill Vigrass about the Glassboro line. 14 studies, only 13 of which suggested the line be built.
Which one said to not build it? Was it a joint effort between GM and CSX? **shot**
@@sonicboy678 the main culprit is that the State of NJ did not want to pay. Also there was another proposed Corridor to Mount Holly where the upper middle class opposed it.
would love to see this one happen. For as close as Glassboro and Rowan University are to Philly, the bus ride sitting in traffic would routinely take over 90 minutes.
I commuted from Philadelphia to Millville, New Jersey and having a train line would’ve made my life a lot better. I either had to take a two hour bus commute or an hour commute.
If the PATCO line had been in any other country it would have been extended to the U Penn Medical Center decades ago. Instead, both the city and Penn agreed to slow down an extremely busy bus route so that upper middle class working at the hospital complex can use a massive parking garage. Also destroyed the famous Civic Center building for these parking buildings.
Nice idea but it will never happen. It would have to tunnel under Rittenhouse Square and then thru quiet residential streets, cross under the Schuylkill River and somehow dead end at U Penn Medical or go to 30th street Station. Never in our lifetimes sorry.
Like the original comment said, in any other country this would not be reason to simply not do it. The US is in the stone age for transit.@@ryanstevens2722
@@ryanstevens2722 It has to be in deep tunnel anyway since it must go under the river. It just goes due west and then turns after the river. And there is plenty of space for a station between 33rd and 34th streets. I used to work in the area for years.
There's basically zero relationship between any parking garages at Penn, the speed of any bus routes, and any decision to extend Patco to University City.
@@Splenda257 Have you ever even been there? Very crowed buses go around giant parking houses instead of very deserved bus lanes.
Philly could be the single most urbanist and walkable city in the US if the politicians and influencers didn't have terminal car brain. It kills me to see such great bones rot like this.
Yep.
With you on this 100%
The riots and the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021 crippled Phila. for probably years to come. Most Regional Rail stations parking lots are only about half as full as they were before 2020.
@@CarlGerhardt1 pandemic isn’t over.
@@CarlGerhardt1 what on earth are you talking about?
As one who grew up just outside the city, I am very impressed you know how to pronounce Reading.
Its the same as in the UK
The weird bit is, I only learnt about the pronunciation due to the local Reading Cinemas here. It's awesome in a bizarre way that Reading Railroad eventually evolved into one of the biggest cinema chains in South-East Australia, but I'm not complaining.
I honestly didn't know what other pronunciation you thought people would use until I thought about it for a moment!
@@RMTransitSome stations can even fit 8-car trains on the Market-Frankford Line. Though, all trains are 6 cars long. At 15th Street, the platforms are 8 cars long, but when a train pulls into the station, it's shorter than the full length of the platform.
Past tense of "read"; not present tense. A long time ago, people played the game MONOPOLY and the city was much more prominent in the news, culture, movies, education, industry, history, etc. People used to know how to properly ask for the Reading Terminal Market.
Patco doesn’t run in the lower level of the Ben. It runs on the outer edges of the bridge. There is no lower level
The headwhip I did when I heard "lower level" 🤣
It is a bit lower than the road deck 😅 but yes not actually a lower level.
It's nice to hear somebody say nice things about Philadelphia, especially Philadelphia transit. Like the old saying goes, "Philadelphia isn't as bad as Philadelphians say it is."
I must a small correction: Broad Street Subway Cars have a maximum length of eight cars, as the cars are 67 1/2' long and the platforms 550' long. At present they are only run in five-car sets and SEPTA has only 125 BIV cars. When the line was originally planned, and when City Hill Station was originally built, the system was to have the same loading gauge as the Market Street Subway-Elevated, but would operate ten-car trains of 55' car trains. City Hall Station Station was built before the rest of the line to the Market Street line's standards, but when the rest was built, it was to a standard similar to the BMT lines in New York City.
PATCO has its origins in the Bridge Line built by the Delaware Bridge Commission, which built the original route from Broadway to 8th & Market. For a time, Bridge Line trains would run from Broadway to 8th & Market, then along the Broad-Ridge Spur and Broad Street Line express tracks to Girard. The 8th - Locust Subway that PATCO uses was originally built by the city to connect to the Broad-Ridge Spur, then continue west across the River to eventually become an elevated line over Woodland Avenue. It never got further than 18th Street and was eventually handed over to PATCO. (N.b. The City of Philadelphia still owns the Broad Street Subway and 8th - Locust Subway, but leases them to other operators, hence why one may see the city's shield on Broad Street Line cars) There's a whole convoluted history behind the development of Philadelphia's rapid transit system, most of which through 1974 was well-chronicled by Robert P. Sechler in his monograph "Speed lines to city and suburbs," which you can find easily enough searching around the internet.
Incidentally, PATCO will add, or perhaps more accurately regain, a fifth Philadelphia station when Franklin Square reopens later this year.
I truly hate to think so, but I believe that the prospects for the Roosevelt Boulevard Subway are dim. SEPTA has committed to Trolley Modernization and extensive fleet replacements with Reimagining Regional Rail waiting next in line. That's all going to be incredibly expensive and SEPTA remains a pauper among large city transit operators. Adding the gargantuan expensive of the Roosevelt Boulevard Subway will require a nigh-miraculous increase in capital funding, which would require support from the City of Philadelphia and Commonwealth of Philadelphia in excess of what they are likely to offer. It's a superb proposal that people quickly become enthusiastic for in abstract, but funding it will be a monstrous challenge, even with Capital Investment Grant program funding. I wish it the best, but it will be very hard to get.
And remember, you can't get the Heaven on the Frankford El, because the Frankford El goes straight to Frankford.
@@paulbrommer6046 We could easily build the Roosevelt Blvd subway for cheap and do all of SEPTA's other projects if they weren't trying to build it out to the suburbs who aren't even going to use it. Logically speaking, the metro extension should terminate in northeast Philadelphia where the population density is much higher. Instead the current proposal wants to triple the length and cost of the project just to appeal to suburbanites who have no use for it
@@moosesandmeese969 At the very most, extend it out to Red Lion and the Northeast Philly airport, but I would be in favor of terminating it at Welsh-Grant, the end of a proposed Phase 2
@@PhilliesNostalgia No that's a huge waste of money and nobody is going to use it. Terminate the metro just before Pennypack park. Metros are for cities, not suburbs. Philadelphia doesn't need to waste more money on subsidizing rich suburbanites.
I believe you meant the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (not Philadelphia).
Philly was a city of transportation firsts! According to the American Society of Civil Engineers, the Frankford Avenue Bridge in the Holmesburg neighborhood was the first stone arch bridge built in the country and is the oldest surviving roadway bridge in the US as well! It was built in 1697 at the request of William Penn to connect his mansion with the then new city of Philadelphia and was an important link on the King's Highway that linked Philly with cities like Trenton, NYC, and Boston. So famous politicians like John Adams and George Washington used the bridge, like Washington when he crossed it on his way to his inauguration in NYC in 1789. The first steam-ferry service in the world was actually in Philly and went to Burlington, NJ. It was created by John Fitch! The first successful trial run of his steamboat Perseverance was made in August 1787, in the presence of delegates from the Constitutional Convention. With this boat, he carried up to 30 paying passengers on numerous round-trip voyages between Philadelphia and Burlington during the summer of 1790. Basically he wanted to make his own version of a Watt engine (there were no Watt engines in North America as the British refused to export them) and he got Henry Voigt to help him build a working model and place it on the boat
The first hot air balloon flown in the Americas was launched from the former Walnut Street Jail in Philly on January 9, 1793, witnessed by George Washington, James Monroe, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and James Madison! It was piloted by the French aeronaut Jean-Pierre Blanchard, who was also the first to cross the English Channel in a hot air balloon with American co-pilot John Jeffries in 1785! It landed in Deptford, NJ. And just outside Philly, the Crum Creek was once home to the Leiper Railroad, the continent's first chartered railway, first operational non-temporary railway, first well-documented railroad, and first constructed railroad also meant to be permanent! It was a 'family business-built' horse drawn railroad of 0.75 miles that was constructed in 1810 after quarry owner, Thomas Leiper, failed to obtain a charter with legal rights-of-way to instead build his desired canal along Crum Creek. It went from Crum Creek to Ridley Creek where quarry stone where it would then be loaded on boats to Chester for market.
So excited to see PATCO mentioned. Most Philadelphians don’t know about but those of us traveling from Southern New Jersey love its convenience and its connectedness to Philly’s railways. It could use an update but it’s indispensable.
If this one doesn't feature Alan ... oh there it is 😂.
Thanks for the Philly love. I took most of those transit systems while I lived in Philly and S.Jersey. You can get almost everywhere in the region without a car. Before I retired and moved, I took the Riverline into Camden, then PATCO into town. Just wished the riverline ran more frequently during rush hour. Other than that, in 40 years, I never had a problem on transit in my hometown.
Not NRG Stadium…it’s NRG station which serves the South Philadelphia Sports Complex which has multiple stadiums (Citizens Bank Park, Lincoln Financial Field, Wells Fargo Center)
@@brian_brennan42 it's still Pattison to me!
One thing. Newark DE isn’t pronounced the same way as the city with the same name in NJ. The Delaware city is pronounced as if it were two separate words. New Ark. As in ‘The old one broke, so Noah went to the Canadian Tire and bought a New Ark’. 😁
Roll Blue Hens!
SEPTA also serves Northern Delaware, FYI
The 4 Delaware SEPTA stops have about hourly service at Newark, Churchmans Crossing, Wilmington, and Claymont, all in Delaware with service through Delaware County PA to Philadelphia.
1:41 I know you're not a native to Philly so you'll have to forgive me but I believe you meant NRG Station, which is the subway station that serves the sports stadiums in Philadelphia and is a vital point of entry if you're trying to get to an Eagles, Phillies or sixers game without driving otherwise awesome vid
He also said NRJ but put NRG, I think he just misspoke.
Yeah I kind of wish they just left the station name Pattison Ave. I despise the NRG station naming rights
@@alcubierrevj also, isn't 8th known as Jefferson Station. Money talks
yeah a couple of inaccuracies here and there but the general points are valid. [insert "philly mentioned" meme]
@@alcubierrevj If you think that's bad, look at the MFL/Subway-Surface 30th Street station.
I've found that the biggest issue with SEPTA's regional rail is the timings - they don't run after 11pm (which can be a pain when getting off a late-night amtrak at 30th st) and the NJ Transit connections in Trenton don't line up, making you wait upwards of 40 minutes sometimes. I will say they have the best gift/apparel store of any transit agency I've seen, though.
@@gk4506
I’m from Philly and I agree.
SEPTA is still crap compared to MTA.
The LIRR runs at convenient times for late night travelers.
Newark, DE isn't pronounced the same way as Newark, NJ! It's pronounced "New-ark". As mentioned, PATCO was one of the first in the world to have ATO, it was the first to have ATO in North America, as PATCO opened in 1969 while BART opened in 1972! And not only does PATCO have commuter rail-style seating, but also, many PATCO features were actually included in the M1/M3s that were built for the LIRR and MNR (MNR's predecessors Penn Central and Conrail), like similar motors! Both the original PATCO rolling stock and the M1/M3s were made by the Budd Company, with both rolling stock being built in 1968 (M3s entered service in the 1980s), while GE designed the motors. The M1/3s were designed for 100 mph, but they only achieved 80 mph in service due to track and signaling limitations. The M1/3s even included support for ATO like PATCO, however, ATO was never used on those trains on the LIRR. The M1/3s were the catalyst of change for the LIRR and MNR systems as it required all stations in the electrified zone to be rebuilt for high-level boarding between 1966 and 1968 (stations in the LIRR's diesel zone wouldn't have high-level boarding until the 1990s for the C3s), and the increased power demand forced the LIRR to update its third rail power supply from 650 V DC to 750 V DC to take advantage of the car's performance. The PATCO ATO is an analog system that makes use of pulse code cab signaling supplied by Union Switch & Signal. The cab signals supply one of five different speeds (20 mph, 30 mph, 40 mph, 65 mph or full stop) and the on-board ATO gear supplies maximum acceleration or maximum braking force to reach that target speed. GE wasn't prepared for the constant rapid acceleration and deceleration of PATCO, this caused the motors to easily break down during its early days, with GE having to repeatedly work with PATCO's shops to overhaul motors.
And yup, the entirety of SEPTA's network is electrified, but it used to have diesel services! It became a fully electrified system because simply, they cut all their diesel services instead of electrifying. The electrical system on the former PRR side is owned and operated by Amtrak, while the electrification on the Reading side is owned by SEPTA. The Amtrak system was originally built by the PRR between 1915 and 1938. The SEPTA-owned system was originally built by the Reading starting in 1931. The two systems are not electrically connected. After construction of the Center City Commuter Connection, the two electrical systems now meet near Girard Avenue at a “phase break,” a short section of unpowered track, which trains coast across. This gap is needed because the two electrical systems are not kept in synchronization with each other. For the diesel services, Conrail operated four diesel SEPTA-branded routes under contract throughout the 1970s! There used to be an Allentown via Bethlehem, Quakertown, and Lansdale service and this was gradually cut back. Allentown-Bethlehem service ended in 1979, Bethlehem-Quakertown service ended in early July 1981, and Quakertown-Lansdale service ended later that month. Pottsville line service to Pottsville, via Reading and Norristown, ended in late July 1981. West Trenton service previously ran to Newark Penn and this was cut back to West Trenton in early July 1981. The final service, Fox Chase-Newtown service, initially also ended in early July 1981, re-established in October of that year as the Fox Chase Rapid Transit Line, which then ended in 1983, thus today's Fox Chase Line just ends at Fox Chase. The services were phased out due to low ridership, a lack of funding outside the five-county area of SEPTA, withdrawal of Conrail as a contract carrier, aging equipment that needed replacement, and a lack of SEPTA-owned diesel maintenance infrastructure. The death knell for any resumption of diesel service was the Center City Commuter Connection, which lacks the necessary ventilation for exhaust-producing locomotives!
@AverytheCubanAmerican Thanks for the SEPTA history!
I don't know what happened but in the past several years I've noticed SEPTA reps at all of the stations and on the trains are EXTREMELY helpful and friendly. Kudos to the executive leadership team for turning around what was once a frequently dour experience if you had a question.
@billm1866 When was this?
Great Video! As a Philly native, now living in the suburbs, I just thought biggish cities had a regional rail network like ours. And, for all the complaining about SEPTA we do, it is a remarkable system regardless.
Wow, SEPTA really does punch above its weight when it comes to transit service in the US. A direct rail connection to the airport that NY should be very envious of (and build)!
A word of caution. While SEPTA does run through on the Regional rail, it is not guaranteed. It recommended that the passenger ask the conductor to be sure. Historically that was true, about ten years ago SEPTA switched it up for more flexibility. For example historically, Trenton through Center City to Chestnut Hill East. this is no longer guaranteed. Sometime the Eastbound Reading Lines stop at Temple University. As is the case with the Pennsy Lines stopping at either 30th Street or University City (University of Pennsylvania Medical Center/Children's Hospital of Philadelphia).
Love Philly. Glad to see it getting some good buzz. I've only used a few parts of its public transit network, but what I've used was really good. The I've only been on the trolley when it's underground, and riding it felt a bit like the mine-car chase in Temple of Doom. But it got the job done, for sure.
Man, now I want to go back to Philly.
Thanks for describing the River Line as an interurban! Yup, the River LINE as an interurban definitely provides a crucial connection for the Delaware River communities! A cool community along the River LINE is Bordentown. Bordentown is one of my favorite places in NJ. Bordentown is a colonial suburb, Bordentown's first recorded European settlement was made in 1682, and then it was renamed after Joseph Borden in 1717! Bordentown is filled with transportation and revolutionary history! In 1734, Joseph Borden started a stage line and packet service between Bordentown and Philly. In the 1830s, the Camden and Amboy Railroad (NJ's first railroad) used the John Bull locomotive which is now in the Smithsonian National Museum of American History! And In 1834, the Delaware and Raritan Canal (which helped transport anthracite coal to NYC during much of the 19th and early 20th centuries) had their Lock 1 at Bordentown. Bordentown was once the home of many revolutionaries. Patience Lovell Wright, the US's first female sculptor, was creating wax busts in King George's court in England. Patriots like Francis Hopkinson (a signer of the US Declaration of Independence) and Thomas Paine (who authored Common Sense and The American Crisis) also lived in Bordentown. Thomas Paine's home in Bordentown between 1783 until his death in 1809 was the only house he ever bought. Besides American patriots, Bordentown was also the home of Napoleon's older brother Joseph Bonaparte and Joseph's daughter Charlotte who did landscape paintings while in NJ. But more importantly, Bordentown was home to NJ's first free school by Clara Barton in 1852, who later founded the American Red Cross in 1881!
When the River Line first opened in 2004, it didn't have a connection with the ACL at Pennsauken! The Pennsauken Transit Center wouldn't open until 2013! Here's a little more history on the Atlantic City Line: The line's Delair Bridge was built by the PRR and opened in 1896, it was the first bridge of any sort between Philly and NJ! By its height in the 1920s, there were no fewer than three competing railroad Main Lines connecting the Atlantic City resort with Philadelphia, the Atlantic City Railroad, owned by the Reading Company, the Camden and Atlantic, and the West Jersey and Seashore (WJ&S), with the latter two owned by the PRR. Competition was fierce and the ACRR and C&A lines boasted some of the fastest trains in the world, while the WJ&S was a pioneering example of railroad electrification. The Great Depression caused the first consolidation of the various competing lines into the new Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines. By the late 1960s, the surviving former Camden and Atlantic City Main Line was reduced to a commuter service funded by the NJDOT. After Conrail took over PRSL rail services in South Jersey in 1976 (which also included Ocean City and Cape May) and NJDOT ceased these services in 1981, Amtrak and NJT struck a deal where the main line to Atlantic City would be upgraded by Amtrak, Amtrak would run an Atlantic City Express to AC from places like NYC, Philly, and DC, while also building commuter stations for a NJT service on the line. The line reopened in 1989, and during this time, NJT rail service was between Lindenwold and Atlantic City. Cherry Hill opened in 1994 as Amtrak switched their local stop from Lindenwold to Cherry Hill due to low ridership at Lindenwold. After Amtrak discontinued the AC Express in 1995, NJT extended its service from Lindenwold to Philadelphia, now stopping at Cherry Hill and of course later Pennsauken in 2013.
It is never too late. Even if you are going to die tomorrow, keep yourself straight and clear and be a happy human being today.
I've been looking forward to this overview! Thanks and well done. Philly's transit network has incredible potential, giving the Regional Rail system good frequency would turn it into a crown jewel. I hope they can pull it off.
I never went to Philly before, but I want to go. And congrats on your 300k YT subscribers!
Dont, its shitty down there
@@artificial_S Really? Do tell. Also, let us know what nirvana you call home
Pretty much just avoid North Philly, Kensington is a really bad area.
You'll enjoy it. Center City is very vibrant.
My Dad worked for SEPTA for 37 years as a mason, really hard on the body but he always asserts it paid off🦅
Great video good sir. Nice to hear Philly and Septa get some praise. I grew up next to the El and call it my old friend. Im really excited to see the new cars. Oh and thanks for pointing how big the BSL cars are.
@RMTransit you came to Philly? You came to Philly? Thank you so much to doing Philly transit, my home town, with all its real virtue, potential, and grit.
* Good: through running regional rail in Center City with connectivity to El, BSL and Ridge Ave
* Good: the Subway surface (trolly or light rail) lines connecting West and Southwest
* Good: restoration of classic trolleys on #15 line
* Bad: loss of several trolly lines in favor of bus routes including the 23 running from Germantown Ave all the way down 12th and 11th streets. Not great region rail frequencies
Bad: Station cleanings need to be more frequent.
Ugly: closure of several downtown concourses due to “issues” which disrupt underground connectivity between PATCO and BSL
Roosevelt Blvd extension and a northwest subway expansion really would help expand heavy rail access through the city.
Also, would 24 hour rail/trolley service be beneficial, possibly if the demand is there. I believe the busses do run 24/7 though
The first bad listing, you can thank a depot fire im the 60’s or 70’s that deleted a big chunk of the trolley fleet. For the second bad listing.. yeah I agree w/ you it’s kinda dirty on my way home from school every day
A great overview of my home system! Growing up here, I and many people take this network so much for granted, especially being near NYC and DC. I didn't realize how much of a gem Philly's system was until I moved elsewhere in the state and discovered that rail networks just really don't exist to this degree elsewhere.
Excellent presentation. I communted on PRR and Reading lines back in the day before the SEPTA Regional Rail was created. The improvements from that time have been tremendous. The Jefferson Station interconnection really made interconnection seamless. I love Philly and would move back there if my family circumstances were different.
@@nonewherelistens1906 The separate Reading and PRR commuter rail lines made for an interesting situation in Chestnut Hill, where there are two stations, East and West, only about 1/3 mile apart. One went to Reading Terminal and the other to Suburban Station. Now they're connected by the tunnel.
Great video! Shout out to Alan Fisher! I'm a lifelong Philadelphian and have been riding SEPTA for nearly 60 years and here NEEDS to be a Roosevelt Blvd. extention NOW! THAT should be the priority!
LOVED this, a feature on the transit of my favorite city! Philadelphia is an underrated gem of a city.
But I have to make a note on the pronuciation fo the town I was born in: Newark, Delaware. It is not pronounced like the city in New Jersey. We say /ˈnjuːɑːrk/ NEW-ark.
As a lifelong native of the Philadelphia suburbs, I've had many opportunities to see the trolleys, trains, and buses of SEPTA. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to ride them many times, as there isn't much need (at present) for me to ride into or around the city.
There's a lot of discussion in transit circles about the relative benefits of different modes of transit, but one comparison that I find lacking is that between metro and regional rail. In a larger metro area, what should the balance between metro and regional be? Should there be two complementary systems covering the whole city? Should the metro focus on the city center and leave farther out trips to the regional rail?
I'd be very happy if you could make a video looking at that contrast, and at the thin and only debatably existent line between metro and regional rail in an urban area.
Have a look at Paris and difference in what the RER/Transilien (Suburban Rail and Regional Rail) and Metro (Subway) cover.
One of the best examples to follow
@@BLACKSTA361 Isn't Paris currently expanding their metro much deeper into the suburbs? I'm not sure having the metro only in the very core of a massive urban area is ideal.
I am always happy to show people around Philadelphia and give a grand tour of SEPTA
Patco is interesting, because it uses large subway cars. PATH cars are significantly smaller. PATH cars i was told were more like the IRT than the IND.
Thanks for covering the extensive transit options we have here in Philadelphia. I grew up in west Philadelphia first riding the 34 trolley to get to center city. Our family then moved to a close in suburb in Delaware County and had the connivence of a suburban bus line to 69th street Terminal. I liked riding transit and did not even learn to drive till just before I graduated college. I have ridden on almost all the various lines you showed in the video. Even though there have been many budget issues over the years we are lucky to have such an extensive public transit system. This is one of the few places in the USA where you could get around to most places without owning a car. I hope we continue to be such a great public transit accessible area.
Terrific video! I grew up near the Beechwood-Brookline stop of the Norristown HSL, but moved away from the Phila. area decades ago. Great to see such positive coverage of a metro area with such potential!
(If I may, please, one correction: Newark (DE) is pronounced "NEW-ARK," as opposed to the city in NJ pronounced "NEW-erk.")
Philly commuter rail really is the best rail in the nation if you add it has thorough service.
Cheap fares, full electrification, weekend service on 12/13 lines, through running, and fare card integration. It's incredible.
good summary of the Philly rail network. I'm a life long fan of building the Roosevelt blvd extension. It could easily attract 100,000 riders a day and take thousands of cars off the dangerous, congested blvd.
And if there is ever a road more in need of fewer cars on it, it's Roosevelt Blvd.
@@MJ19438 exactly--- which is what a subway line would help reduce
You should read about the plans to expand the rail service out to Phoenixville, Pottstown, and Reading
Watching this, I realizing I utilized almost all these transit systems in this video 😌 The only one I haven’t use is NJ Transit to AC
Grew up on the PATCO line. If you work in center city (like my mom and brother did) it’s a no brainer to use it.
I like that Philly is one of the few American subway systems that go directly to the airport with exits right at the terminals.
It's not a subway, it's a commuter railroad line, and it only runs every 1/2 hour...not enough to grab significant market share.
I took it two years ago a couple of times. Very convenient. Parking at the airport makes almost no sense.
Some notes -- 1) PATCO hasn't recovered from pandemic related declines in ridership as well as other transit systems. At least some of this has to do with security concerns. 12th-13th/Locust and 15th-16th/Locust stations are located within an underground system of pedestrian walkways known as the concourse. Security in the area outside of the station barriers is the responsibility of the City of Philadelphia, and the PHL PD are doing little to nothing in terms of keeping the concourse safe. 2) Service levels on the Atlantic City Rail Line suck. There are several reasons, but a prominent factor is the opening of the Delair bridge (crossing the delaware River) for marititme traffic. NJ Transit has no desire address this with the appropriate regulators. The 2022 NJ Transit ACRL Service Analysis study concluded that no service enhancements could occur without significant capital investments. 3) The Riverline DMU vehicles have had problems with the motive system for well over a year. In 2023, the private-sector operator was forced to withdrawl 15 minute peak period service for a while due to a lack of operable vehicles. Service reliability continues to be a problem. NJ state level officials have called for legislative investigations.
Septa could be *so* much better and Alan Fisher did a video about that. The joint transit association also mentioned subway extensions should happen.
And I think there are a lot of places that could get the streetcars back
A Broad Street Subway extension to NE Philly would be a god-send. I attend many Phillies games and the Boulevard is a major cluster-F.
I use a combination of PATCO and the Riverline to get out to my job in the suburbs and return back to the city at night. I love Philly because, even if my commute gets a little long, I get to live in a relatively affordable urban center and quite easily live car-free, which is a combination that is really difficult to find in North America (and as much we self-flagellate, a lot of the world as well).
Happy to see a video about my area.
But referring to Delaware Newark as Newerk was rough. We say New ark to refer to that one to differentiate from the one in NJ.
As someone who grew up in a PATCO town and lived in Philly for 4 years, we are definitely spoiled as Americans when it comes to transit. However, on the New Jersey side I wish we had more expansive commuter rail like in PA. Also fun fact you can take a free transfer ferry on the River Line which runs from Trenton to Camden.
Last note, I was in Boston recently and I was very impressed with their transit. Nothing beats the Philly buses, but I actually think I liked the rail better in Boston. Lots of dead spots in Philly but the buses cover them all.
The Broad Street Line has a max length of 8 car trains, except at Fern Rock, which can maaaaaybe fit 6, but for all practical purposes can only fit 5. (It was built 30 years after the rest of the line, and based on the small area it serves combined with its large parking lot, it seems like it was built as a park and ride. Similar in origin but different in function to 148th st on the 3 train in NYC.) The line is currently set up for a maximum of 5 car trains. Currently the limit on capacity is the yard at Fern Rock and rolling stock, with about 125 cars in the fleet. An additional 40 to 60 could be added by using the stub tracks above Erie (4 5 car trains, south of Walnut Locust (2 5 car trains,) and at NRG stadium (6 5 car trains, 2 each on the upper platform tracks). Each car is 67.5 feet long - 20.5 meters
Might I suggest How We Get Around when it comes to Philly as well? He's only recently started up, be he's almost entirely dedicated to the history, structure and function of the Philly transit network, down to the smaller stations.
Philly has lots of transit options and great city, but Chicago is (by far) the rail capital of the US. That includes its three train transit systems (and Amtrak too), the last interurban in the US, are in Chicago metro area with hundreds of miles of commuter rail and hundreds of stations across three states. Some like the L and Southshore train (to Indiana) are expanding. NYC metro has far more commuter rail options than any other metro area.
Chicago inherited the legacy commuter lines of many railroads that served that city. Philly only had two (because it was smaller and geographically compressed).
Not even mentioned in the beginning when the other rail giants are mentioned. Absolutely crazy omission by the creator.
The suburban rail network was built by the Pennsylvania and Reading railroads. When the Penn Central went bankrupt in the 1960s they, like all of the other PC routes, became a part of Amtrack. In the 1980s the Reagan administration chose to abandon regional rail systems, which is why SEPTA took over the lines around Philadelphia. Oh, it is the Warminster regional rail line that goes out to Philadelphia International Airport.
That Broadway extension, plus the new line on the NJ side, and the improved scheduling and fare structures for the regional/commuter trains sounds like they would make for improvements that amplify eachother since it's all one big network.
A couple of things I've seen suggested, that sound great, are extending the River Line from Trenton to West Trenton (connection creating a better network) & PATCO to Penn Medicine & the trolleys' 37th Street station. And of course extending/improving the ends of the tram & trolley lines so they have real good interchange stations with the other rail transit.
Philly explainer is way overdue, he'll yeah!
The Norristown line use to have the Milwaukee car like Chicago and a Trolley car at one time. The newer silver car came in the early 90s
It’s worth noting that the Broad Street Line also has a top speed limit of 70mph that is reached regularly by express services, as it was built to the same specifications as PATCO. Also, something worth noting that wasn’t mentioned is that there is 5G service in the Broad Street Line and Market-Frankford Line tunnels, which is something that is rare in most cities.
As a Philadelphian, one thing I like about Jefferson Station is that the Western most exit (12th St) is Reading Terminal itself. You enter Reading Terminal as if its 1984 all over again but instead of going up to the trains, you now go down to Jefferson Station. There also a little passeageway to both the market and Fashion District Mall.
Excellent presentation.
The line to AC was electrified by the WJ&S from Camden to AC via Newfield, not via Winslow. The current route was never electrified, and paralleled the third rail lines going into AC from just outside of Pleasantville. Needed to add that since that line is thrown around so much when talking about south jersey in a transit perspective. Its true but not in the current alignment of things. Other than that great video!
I am a native of NYC who generally finds that Philadelphia region rail service to be quite good, especially once they exapanded the Broad Street subway south to the stadiums and arena. My biggest complaint was the transfer from the Broad Street line to the Market-Frankfort Line at City Hall/15th Street. The signage is old and difficult to follow while the connecting path is serpentine.
I grew up in philly, I really miss being able to commute by rail. I took the train to school!
Definitely a transit enthusiast here though the past year’s experiences - broken down regional rail trains, trains that went the wrong way (!) due to points problems, broken down trolleys stuck in the tunnel, and general poor reliability of the network due to staff shortages and equipment problems have made me switch to commuting by car. 😢 it’s sad because this could be a great network but all too often fails to be reliable and punctual enough
The BEST Transit System in the United States!!! And the Trackless Trolley Buses add to the unique fun as well!!
Electric trolley buses--best ride in NE Philly.
Great overview! Better Regional Rail trains with automatic doors can't come soon enough. I've never boarded a RR train without seeing at least one fellow rider panicking to find an open door.
The Hitachi train looks great! You are slimmer; you look good. I saw the REM in Montreal. It looks nice. I took Via Rail from Montreal to Quebec City and back. Their trains are great! Much better than Amtrak trains. I'm in the Adirondack train now from Montreal to NYC. We're stopped due to a person who got hit by a freight train. Long wait, but we got some free snacks and drinks.
Septa regional rail is impressive in its size, but too narrow in its purpose. Its purpose is to bring people into Center City Philadelphia for work, which it has done well, but office work is on the decline, and the lines might have very limited utility for anything else. It does not really interconnect the region. Even with greater frequencies, it's hard to imagine a lot of people using regional rail for trips that require travel into Center City to Connect with another train go to someplace else. Some regional rail stations are at walkable locations, most aren't.
One solution is transit oriented development around stations. Rich suburbs have fought this.
Thanks for doing this video. I would love your take on the repeatedly proposed Roosevelt extension to the Broad Street line.
It would be great but not holding my breath.
You called city hall on the MFL "City Hall" but confusingly for tourists and visitors its actually called 15th st for some reason on the MFL only.
In west Philadelphia born and raised & on the trains is where I spent most of my days…
PATCO also connects to the NJ Transit River Line at Camden. The River Line goes north south to and from Trenton.
Yes, this was discussed in the video!
Daaaamn, that Hitachi concept train at 7:14 looks sexy. I am kind of in love with the design.
Patco allowed me to live in Philly for years and still own a car in NJ. I actually worked for them for like 3 weeks during the pandemic, but they laid my whole department off
It has been awhile since I lived in Philly. The PATCO line runs under Locust Street, not Walnut. This would be far easier to disrupt for construction.
I don’t know why SEPTA doesn’t connect the station at Citizens Bank Park and Lincoln Financial Field to the southern line that goes to Delaware. It would be huge to bring the thousands of Phillies/Eagles fans from the Wilmington area to there. If you want to do the train it would take almost 2 hours instead of the 1 hour it would take with traffic on the roads.
I spent some time in Philadelphia in the eighties and was impressed with the variety of transit options.
Another minor correction. The primary route between Camden and Atlantic City via Winslow Junction was never electrified. That was an alternate line that went by way of Newfield. It was an early PRR third rail installation. But traffic levels on this line never justified electrified service and the third rail was later removed.
as much as we like to hate on septa here in philly, it's pretty impressive what they're able to provide considering funding has always been lacking. also, many of the issues folks have with septa, are actually just philly issues, again due to how poor the city is as a whole.
great video man, nailed all the terminology, neighborhoods, and pronunciations!
💯👍🏿
Nice video! One thing tho I think you may have gotten some misinformation from somewhere but the NJT Atlantic city line never was electrified,it has been worked by locomotive hauled diesel trains for over 50 years with the acceptation of the BUDD RDC MUs on some services in the 80s
Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. And today? Today is a gift. That is why we call it the present.
Weird, poor M Line (Norristown High Speed Line)! Why are there no plans to extent the L on the M right-of-way to e.g. Bryn Mawr or Hughes Park (similar to Hamburg suburban U1)? This would be the best first step to drastically increase the ridership, so one day the KOP extension (as part of the L) would get its funding?
There is a SEPTA station in Bryn Mawr. Our daughter just graduated from Bryn Mawr College, so i know this
The major complaint, especially with the suburban buses and suburban rail is the frequency. I think that buses on all the network should come every 15 minutes and every half hour in the evenings, I think that the regional rail should come every half an hour or at least every 20 minutes and should be 24 hours with limited service during overnights. They should also look at rebuilding former elevated subway lines, such as in south Philly, the Roosevelt Boulevard extension, and all other avenues where subways and trains used to be or the tracks continue to be reactivity lines, especially the media Westchester line and the Reading Pottstown line or Allentown and Newtown or just reactivate all of the former regional real network and given that it’s all electrified, at least 90% of it is the remainder can be electrified and Septa can be the best commuter rail/public transportation system in the country
As others have noted, frequency, especially on the weekends and mid-day, is an abysmal glaring flaw, particularly on the regional rail lines. Weekend airport service is hourly, which is just ridiculous. Got in from Phoenix on a Saturday recently, and got to the platform just as the train was leaving. An hour wait! Half hour weekend service should be the minimum. Weekday service is every half hour, which is bearable, but every 15 minutes would put it in line with other airport's rail connections. Weekend and mid-day service on the other regional rail lines is just as bad, if not worse, with gaps of 2 hours on some of the lines. They say the demand is not there. Well, any low demand is a direct result of the terrible schedules. I would gladly use the regional rail to reach other parts of the city, but will not do so if there is an hour or more wait for a train if I happen to miss one. And they should have added another stop on the MFL (now the L line) at 19th St. years ago, as not having a stop between 15th St. and 30th St. doesn't make any sense - that distance between stops is just too long. On a positive note re: the entire SEPTA system, I'll add that Philly's late night/overnight/weekend service is often better than many cities regular weekday service. (excluding regional rail)
They don't say the demand is not there, they just dont have the funding nor the staffing to provide more service. Look up "reimagining regional rail phase 2" to see the service that septa wants to provide.
@@blacklisted351 Okay, thank you.
Every time I see Philly's transit network I see some points where it could be made better;
1) this might sound like a sort of silly or crazy idea, but to me it makes sense to build a connection, in tunnel, from Jefferson all the way to Camden. I know that on the other side of Schuylkill the state is NJ, but it's all part of the same metro area, and incidentally, up North NJT & NNR do have joint service (on the Hoboken to Port Jervis route). So why not having something similar between SEPTA & NJT? The idea would be simple (it isn't cheap of course, especially because rsil related construction in the American continent is much more expensive than here in Europe); on one side, electrify and upgrade de Atlantic City line to higher speed (100 or110 Mph) and higher frequency. It would be a thru service that would end somewhere on the Pennsylvania side. The same standard should be applied to the Glassboro line, also ending on the Penn side!
2) on the Pennsylvania side, I know there are projects to serve both Reading and Bethlehem (it should go a little further, to Allentown). Maybe with the exception of speed (I don't know if the geometry of the old lines that are supposed to be reactivated allow all those high speeds), I would apply the same standards as per the NJ side. In fact Reading & Bethlehem/Allentown could be the Penn side termini of the NJ lines, allowing for the creation of what I call "High Speed RER/Regional service ';
3) I know there might be other projects, such as the reconnection of West Trenton to the NJT network, but that seems to be a long term thing;
4) final considerations, a net wide level boarding project (high platforms) should be considerd by SEPTA, toghether wide a fare integration/single travel card project. Also rolling stock should be replaced. The various generstions of Silverliner and loco hauled trains just look plain outdated. I would replaced it with EMUs. Something like the new Stadler ones being produced to Spain's Renfe.
There already is a single travel card. Unless you mean for compatibility with NJT/Patco. But RR, bus, and metro all use the key card
@@blacklisted351 precisely that; a travel card for all operators, not just the ones on PA side
Ok. I herd that shuffling at the beginning while waiting on the platform. And straight up thought some junkie was shuffling up to haggle me.
Having grown up in Phila, I can definitely vouch for the quality of mass transit in the area.
Interesting Video. I always thought Philly had a vast functional rail network.
The station is NRG not NRG stadium that’s Houston 😂 very confusing though don’t blame you for it
And that express really get you downtown in 9 mins
One other slight bone I have to pick with SEPTA, after visiting Philly a number of times due to having a close friend who lives there: the trains tend not to be on time. I'm not sure why that's the case, but whatever the reason may be, I've joked with my friend that there are two times: the time on the clock, and SEPTA time.
My roast of SEPTA aside, I admire how extensive their system is. The bones of a great system are there.
The good news is that the SEPTA app allows you to track your train for any delays. It doesn't help the actual delay itself along, but at least you have an idea of what to expect as far as a wait
As a Delawarean, I feel the need to point out that we hate when people pronounce "Newark" like the one in New Jersey. We pronounce it correctly :)
On-topic, the Wilmington/Newark line is wonderfully convenient for commuters and the fare cost is roughly the same as the cost of gas, but it would be nice if service frequency could be increased/extended. Only six trains per day go beyond Wilmington and there is no service on weekends, which makes it much more difficult to visit the city for sporting/concert events or general weekend entertainment.
PHILLY MENTIONED RAAAAHHHHH BROTHER LOVE UPON YEE