Ok, so here's the soundtrack for Journey. - Nascence - The call - First confluence - Second Confluence - Threshold - Third Confluence - The road of trials - Fourth Confluence - Temptations - Descent - Fifth confluence - Atonement - Final confluence - Reclamation - Nadir - Apotheosis - I was born for this So yeah.
I actually think it's weird that you guys thought that Journey skipped Woman as Temptress. The moment that I always perceived as this is that one final cave you encounter as you ascend the mountain. While you're in it, your scarf recharges automatically, you don't have wind buffeting you, and for the first time in ages, you can safely fly with your partner again. Every time I play through that, both me and my partner linger in that pointless little cave a bit longer than anyone should before finally leaving and going to face the dragons one last time. That last moment of warmth and power before the final ascent of the mountain needs to be denied in order to complete the game, which fits the "Physical as Temptress" aspect pretty well.
I don't think Journey actually skips the 'meeting with the goddess' section. They just approach it in a different way, in the form of the 'other players' part of the game. I don't know about everyone else but my experience with journey saw people working together, assisting each other through the hardest moments, even giving up their own progress at times in order to help each other (in the form of backtracking through difficult platforming sections to assist). These moments, especially the times when you have to rely on each other in the mountains, and sections directly following promotes closeness with this person you don't know, making you want to know even more about them. To me, thats the love.
+Steps1000 I completely agree with this statement, I watched at least all of the let's plays of journey because I clearly don't have a life and you are so correct.
Steps1000 At the very end of the game when we were going into the mountain the player I was playing with made a heart shape in the snow and my heart melted into a puppy
In a philosophy course, I actually used Bioshock as an example for the Hero's Journey. The swim to the lighthouse is the call to action, the gift from the gods is your first hit of ADAM, the trials and temptations are being led along by Atlas, the moment of rebirth happens after the climatic confrontation with Andrew Ryan, transformation occurs when you become free of the chains that bind you, atonement occurs when you face Fontaine, and the return is in the ending (good ending, of course).
Zelda: Ocarina of Time does an excellent job with "the Threshold", when you're leaving the village and all the people wish you luck - and some are convinced you won't come back ever or for a long time - it really sinks in that things are not going to be as they have been, that your "old life" is over for good or for a while.
That game does an excellent job at portraying the Hero's journey. The Apotheosis can be represented through the light arrows obtained just before the finale, ascending Link to great heights, and purity. I especially love Ocarina's return, which is a literal reversal of time as Link goes back to his younger self, and sets out on a new journey, with new found knowledge. Very powerful stuff.
The titles of Journey's official soundtrack reflect the Hero's Journey: Below is the complete soundtrack for Journey Title - Length 1. Nascence - 1:47 2. The Call - 3:39 3. First Confluence - 1:40 4. Second Confuence - 2:20 5. Threshold - 6:05 6. Third Confluence - 1:40 7. The Road of Trials - 4:16 8. Fourth Confluence - 1:07 9. Temptations - 4:13 10. Descent - 2:40 11. Fifth Confluence - 1:23 12. Atonement - 6:11 13. Final Confluence - 2:06 14. The Crossing - 1:58 15. Reclamation - 2:16 16. Nadir - 3:37 17. Apotheosis - 6:00 18. I Was Born For This - 4:41
Couldn't the Meeting with the Goddess arguably be the time you spend with another player? If you stick with a player for a long time there tends to be a bond that forms, platonic or romantic.
A really cool thing about this Hero's journey and the game Journey, is that on the soundtrack, several of the track names directly correspond with different parts of hero's journey. Namely, The Road of Trials, Threshold, and Apotheosis.
wouldn't meeting with the goddess ( finding love) be something happening the whole time? you and your online buddy have been on this journey together. don't say you didn't feel something when they, being new, don't know to stay out of the dragon's light and get snatched up. a pang oh "OH GOD NO!" goes through you before you realize they are okay. for a moment, you think your best friend was just killed.
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is a great example of the Hero's Journey, in that it not only covers one, but several for each of the characters. The Elric brothers have the fullest use of the Hero's Journey, of course, but the characters of Roy Mustang, Ling Yao, and Scar also have their own journeys. You don't see all the steps acted out for them, which makes sense considering that they're not the main focus, but if you pay attention you can see a pattern in each of their arcs that is similar to the Elrics. It's fascinating and impressive that the author was able to do that without making the story too convoluted or unfocused.
I agree; it's what makes it a fascinating story, and one of my favorites. I also like how they used the true source of the Philosopher's stone (something that could have been a minor detail) as both the Refusal of Call and also of the Apotheosis when Alphonse gets the Stone and Lin and Greed work together.
Murderous Johnny You might be thinking of the first anime, which had a bunch of filler episodes. Brotherhood was the remake that followed the manga more closely and had a tighter and more streamlined story.
gingervampireFTW lmao no the first show was actually really good. And that's most likely because they had the chance of getting away from the manga and set their own tone/style and actually made a drama show that works. The second show on the other hand was filled with tons of shonen cliches and that is a bad thing.
5:23 OK, this is all the proof I need to say that the people in charge of Extra Credits are Avatar the Last Airbender fans. Thanks for the references. They're awesome.
For stage 7/8, I believe this is more of a play mechanic that I experienced with this, and it might have been me, although they were a bit out of order. for 7, the love aspect, I found this with my companion, although it was not conventional love. After a shocking moment where I was under assault by one of the robots creatures, and my companion (who joined me only soon after crossing the fabric bridge), took the hit. The absolute fear, shock and worry for the moments as they didn't move was one of the most influential points in the game. if that isn't a trial, i don't know what is. As for the Temptation, I believe that this is the segments of the scarf that you can collect, although they are not essential for me they felt like power, like I was stronger then I started, yet trying to find/get them all lead to a possible loss of the progression of my own experience, this is held in a lesser extent, but i still think holds up.
I know this is an old video, but you have to know this: THE TITLES OF THE SOUNDTRACK MATCH WITH THE STAGES EXACTLY! Just look at the track names, its all there!
Just returned from YT playthrough of Journey. Seriously, this is game design done right. Art, music, game mechanic, everything supports each other and brings you a story, told without a single word. Notice how, before the descent, the game allows you to slide through the sand, suggesting you to play around with gates and slopes. How, during the ascend, you are allowed to soar almost endlessly. This is to give you a sense of lightness, to show you just how good it could be to live. This sets a base for comparison. How did they show that the snowy mountain is hostile? The cold drains your scarf power. The wind blows your character, making you lose control of him. Later, it blows your scarf away altogether. Everything fades away, you slowly lose sight of the ground, of your objective, of your character, music stops, the wind noise dies down, and the sound of step becomes rarer and rarer, until everything is completely devoured by the white. And then, you fly again. You obtain a huge scarf, and the world becomes filled with sources, which once gain lets you feel good. And the most wonderful thing is, the format of game lets you _feel_ with the character. You soar together with him/her, and you struggle along in the journey. No other medium can let you feel the story with the character this way. Games are unique medium, and Journey excels in showing that.
Journey's OST: 01. Nascence. 02. The Call 03. First Confluence 04. Second Confluence: 05. Threshold 06. Third Confluence: 07. The Road of Trials 08. Fourth Confluence 09. Temptations 10. Descent 11. Fifth Confluence 12. Atonement 13. Final Confluence 14. The Crossing: 15. Reclamation 16. Nadir 17. Apotheosis 18. I was Born for This
I recently replayed Journey while looking at a source that gave a version of the Hero's Journey. I don't know how close to Campbell it was, as there were several differences, but I found an interesting interpretation of the return. The site listed it as a return to the mundane works having experienced fantastic new experiences and being enriched and better for it. I'd argue that this last stage, much like refusal, is actually aimed at the player directly. You finish the game, turn of the machine, but you've had a fantastical experience, that of wager must people feel enriched by. I think this fits particularly well as I viewed it as your character isn't returning, they're still up the mountain, but you can start again as a new character from your old one's actions.
Thanks a lot for these couple episodes! I'm not aiming to be a game dev, but the design talk is fascinating enough to keep me coming back. However, whenever you bring something storytelling related to my attention, it's always a huge help, as I want to be a writer.
Journey is my third favorite video game of all time (following “The Walking Dead: A Telltale Series” and “The Last of Us”), so I’m glad to see it being covered like this.
U guys will probably never read this but I wanted to thank you guys forr theses videos u guys help me graduate in english bc of this video it inspired me to dig deeper in to this concept on the hero's journey
Watching this video made me understand the meaning behind the names the composers of Journey gave to the soundtrack songs. Literally each step has it's own name as a track. This is brilliant
It's interesting that, without knowing anything about (the theory of) The Hero's Journey, the rough idea/sketch I had for a Fantasy story followed some of those steps very close, changed around the order of some of them and turned some of them completely on their heads. This shows that it really is a tool better suited for examination than as a blueprint.
Nearly all of the tracks in Journey are named after the stages in the Hero's Journey, which is either a nice bit of intertextuality or is just a happy coincidence.
The names of the tracks in the Journey soundtrack literally follow the stages of the Hero's Journey; excluding the various "Confluence" stages (the visions at the end of each level), they are: Nascence The Call Threshold The Road of Trials Temptations Descent Atonement The Crossing Reclamation Nadir Apotheosis I was Born for This (this is the "return" to be beginning at the conclusion of the game)
The great thing about this show (apart from EVERYTHING) is that it makes me think about things that I otherwise wouldn't have thought about. I love Journey but I never would have imagined any of this stuff until I saw this video. This episode in particular seems to do a great job of showing just how easy it is to fail at implementing this Capbell idea into a story.
I just realised that the story I'm writing kind of combines The Call and The Supernatural Aid and Crossing The Threshold and Refusal of the Call...or at least they're in the wrong order. The usual order is Call, Refusal, Aid, Threshold. Mine seems to go Aid, Threshold, Call, Refusal
TheUltimateFanBoy Yeah, the person gets their powers (aid), is taken away by the good guys (who use also powers) (threshold), is introduced to the conflict between the good guys and bad guys (call) and then doesn't want to fight (refusal), which doesn't last very long as he kind of has to fight.
As someone who has a whole game idea going up and up and in games design, this is really helping me form an idea of story line and of my hero. Plus, your other videos have always helped me in other situations of the game. I have to thank you guys for that. Keep up the good work ^^
Mind blown for me as well. What is interesting as well: The song "apotheosis" is played during the long sand-gliding scene, just before the fall into the dark level. Which preshadows and mirrors the final stage, where you have the same music during the long flying scene and a fall (as a star) to the beginning of the game.
As someone who has found viewing life through Hero's Journey tinted glasses to be something beneficial I'm so glad you touched on this subject! I'll be looking out for that book now, thanks for recommending it!
I remember other players leading me to segments of scarf they had already discovered, then later leading someone else to that same spot. It is a beautiful circle.
Apotheosis is actually named in Journey. It's one of the songs (I'm pretty sure the one where Steve (the character) Dies, and ascends to the peaceful mountain peaks)
For a school presentation on The Hero's Journey, I used the game Journey as well. However, I used the soundtrack as a guide to when the motifs are used. The music for the parts of the game actually have names like, "The Call", "Threshold," "The Road of Trials," "Temptations," "Decent," "Atonement," and "Apotheosis." Therefore, I saw the Threshold, for example, as the Desert where you are introduced to the dolphin-like creatures and the dark tower at the end. Atonement would be ascending the tower. Etcetera. I doubt anyone will come across this comment on a pretty old video though... Oh well.
I had a realization that my story's Belly of the Whale is actually combined with an incidental Refusal of the Call. Basically, the main character/player should be having fun with some sidequests while waiting for news of a powerful magical artefact they've been looking for. And then the villain shows up while they were gone, reminding the player of their presence. And at the same time, the artefact has been located. So you get jarred back into the "oh, yeah. I had something serious to do." and sent back into the story.
I would argue that the meeting with the goddess stage is not left out of journey. Durning my playthrough, I think the meeting with another player and subsequent teamwork we used to get through was one of the most powerful things I've ever felt. during the sections in the snowy winter area, and after what felt like forever in loneliness I saw the glow. Someone was in front of me and I felt so amazingly happy.
I think that "Meeting with the Goddess" is the interaction with other players since you can chose to support and help each other while you are on your journey and you can grow affection for each other. (In fact it's pretty much customary to draw a heart for your companion before you enter the mountain). I also think that the "Woman of Temptress" is actually the scarf itself, since it's made of the old power that corrupted your ancestors, many people will go out of their way and "waste time" collecting these pieces for a power that is pretty much already useful, and once you collect them all you wear garb similar to your predecessors implying that you have become power-hungry like them. (Also it is implied that the rune fragments are actually souls of other players who have completed their journey which adds a level of implied evil)
I have to call out the last aspect where you can apply your knowledge other players because that's entirely dependent on connecting to the servers. I have never been able to connect with the Journey servers so for me I never had that last step as you described it. However I do often apply it simply through playing the game itself more efficiently; I know the secrets and hints and so can make it through the Journey much more smoothly.
In Journey I believe that, as you call it Physical as Temptress, does exist though it appears alongside the road of trials, the climb up the mountain towards the end goal. Many first time players will attempt to rush through this and the wind or the dragons will strip bits of your scarf away, in the case of the Dragons as much as half of your scarf's length will be lost if you fail to be patient, in the end though retaining your scarf's length does nothing for you as the cold gradually strips the power from the scarf itself, rendering it useless. You hold onto your scarf because, it's something you've come to rely on and losing it would cripple you, even though it does nothing for you. As for the meeting with the goddess it's arguable that Journey does skip it, but during the second time playing I found myself trying to communicate with the players I helped along the way and to warn them of dangers almost as a parent would try to shield and forewarn their children about the harsh reality beyond the door. This may be just me but there is something to be said for the online aspect in this game imparting a feeling of being a mentor to the player you're working with and the desire to protect them from the dangers they will face later in the game. Either by stepping out and taking the dragon's attention from your partner to let them keep their scarf, as you have realized by the end of the road of trials the length of the scarf isn't what matters at all, so they don't feel like they've been stripped of some of their power.
HL2's version: 1: Awoken by the G-Man 2:Skipped kinda 3:Getting the gravity gun 4:Going to Ravenholm 5: More Ravenholm 6: Long road section (Bridge, antlions, Nova Prospekt etc) 7: In Nova Prospekt seeing the love between Alyx and Eli 8: Skipped 9: Beginning of the revolution and going to the Citadel 10: Getting the supercharged gravity gun 11: Taken back by the G-Man.
Is it fair to call Gordan Freeman a hero? He doesn't exactly refuse the call, and, as far as I recall, there's no way to, mechanically, either. He just gets told that he will be the one to save everyone and then does it. It's very much silent protagonist syndrome.
Danmarinja You could argue that you refuse the call at the end of HL1, when you are given the option to not accept the GMan's offer and end up sent to a room full of monsters. You could argue that that is the point when Freeman becomes a Hero (capital H) because by HL2 he's already achieved the first goal of the hero: kleos- renown.
Well actually with the 9th step you sort of go through that just before your reborn your companion always dies first in this you yourself feel alone and come to find them as something you don't want to lose even when going on another journey this companion is unique that you don't want to lose them. The player also may go through the 10th step as you and your companion are reunited now and have this beautiful land to have fun in and nothing is holding you back yet in the end your journey must end and by the time you reach the peak and realize your now locked you want to go back you want to keep your friend you don't want to go forward but you need to go forward and its this that drives you as you learn to choose over your wants for what is needed even if you don't like it.
I got to play Journey very late, so sadly I have never met another player. I watched some let's plays of it and found secrets though those gamer's playthroughs, so in a way they helped me too. It has been mentioned in the comments before, but The titles of Journey's soundtrack hint to the Hero's Journey as well. It also is an amazing soundtrack worth checking out (it even was nominated for a grammy).
A thought based on my personal experience with journey: Regarding the "meeting with the goddess" step, I would argue that after the underground sections, in which me and my unknown partner took turns luring the dragons away from each other, and then the road of trials, in which a vetern player will definitely help any new player, I at least felt a kinship with my anonnymous partner. It may not be love but it was a definite emotional connection I've not often felt in gaming.
Journey the game brought me here. A really deep and intelligent video. And you do really well to not make this boring like so many analysiseseses do on RUclips.
You know, if I ever get the time for some heavy duty writing, I would love to use these steps as a literal outline for a story just as an exercise in thought. It could be quite interesting. Thanks for the presentation, and congratulations to everyone, but especially to James who wrote a pair of very excellent episodes. Very well done.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the moment at the top of the temple where you're shown the mural of your entire journey. That seems like it could be categorized as one of these elements.
Thank you . I was building a minecraft adventure map. I came close to finishing it and found myself unhappy with how it was going and stopped. This made me want to go back and think about what I did wrong. I could never thank you enough.
Ya know, I saw this video when it first came out. I liked it and learned some stuff. But just today (due to a sale) I bought Journey from the PSN and played it. Speechless. I am speechless at how wonderous and amazing this game works as a literal and metaphoric journey. I just rewatched these extra credits videos. And I almost can even fathom how amazing this short game is, snd how I, others and everyone in life experience this journey. I am in awe
After watching Edge of Tomorrow, it struck me that it's almost a perfect fit for all the steps of the hero's journey. Anybody else notice this? Always nice to see this archetype pop up in modern works.
It is 20 years old. If someone hasn't watched it already, given how much the anime community talks about it, they aren't going to. Besides, they're more likely to spoil it than anyone.
So I've subconsciously created stories that follow along this theory? Man, media and storytelling has a much more diverse impact upon your psyche that I'd previously thought.
I am an aspiring writer, not of games, but of books. It is interesting to learn about this hero's journey, as I never had the ability to read about this. It also allows one to tell a more unique story knowing the template many have used. Also as a gamer, I have noticed this in the games that I have played. It is a common template, but its not the template itself. Its what we make with it. Knowing what I do, I hope to use this information to make a more unique tale, that may tell a new heros tale
After watching this I realized that a story I've kinda formed over the years without really trying accidentally fits this progression, for the most part. You weren't kidding, I guess it really is something that we just gravitate toward regardless of culture.
OMG I just realized how SO CLOSELY Morrowind's Main Quest follows the structure of the hero's journey. You were NOT kidding about how closely RPG games follow this structure.
Wow, I'm creating an Anime/Manga series, and without thinking I already had over half of the concepts in the Hero's Journey just thinking of it. Now I'm interested to re-look at the concepts again to see if I do have all of them. Thanks guys!
AT first I thought this was just a cool game theory. However, I definitely think you're right - in the Journey Soundtrack, the music played when you 'ascend' IS titled Apotheosis. I bet you knew that already, but I think it cements it in my mind that you're definitely spot on with this analysis of Journey.
It's "Brendan and the Secret of Kells", an animated feature that was nominated for an oscar alongside "Up" and "Coraline". It... has nothing else to do with these movies and i feel it is targeted at kids (still very dark at times and also good for grown ups - but not as much so as some other animations), but it displays an AMAZING visual style, quite a unique story topic, time it is set in and a very nice score. I recommend it to everybody who likes animation.
Developing on that idea, even though I haven't played the game, I beleive that the white robed beings are both the maternal figure in addition to the father figure. They already had a hard time deciding between the two, what's preventing it from being both ? A supportive, yet dominant being fits perfectly into both of those steps.
I would argue that the Meeting with the Goddess, does in fact show up in journey, but only subtly. When climbing through the mountains, you find a frozen cloth creature, which you think you'll need in order to keep you from freezing and losing your ability to fly. However is does not follow you, and you end up missing it and really getting to understand how much it was worth to you earlier in the game, and how much you wish it were with you during the rest of your journey up the mountain.
This was really interesting. I noticed that when making up a story I to some extent follow this formula instinctively. I think, I need to rewatch this at some point.
Carlos Salazar Yes I know, but I'm amazed at how close the steps are to the story. Also, I know it's greek mythology but I don't know how much of the story was adapted to the movie and how much of it is exactly like the story it is based on.
Disney's Hercules is pretty much nothing like the mythological Hercules except that he's Zeus' kid and we see some of the trials in a montage. Everything else is pretty much bullshit. Including who his mother was (Zeus would stick his dick in anything and Disney is too wholesome for literal bastard children)
Tales of the Abyss did the "heroes Journey" very well, as it has some of the greatest character development i have ever experienced in a JRPG. The Last of Us was great in this regard as well.
Also the Woman as Temptress could be interpreted in Journey as the point when the desire to be the lone wolf or leader of the pair must be sacrificed, especially in the snow levels. Now it's not mandatory to stay next to your partner but it certainly helps a lot in using your scarf and in the snow levels helps the characters move faster. It's when you know it's better to work together than to go at it alone.
RE "Journey" skipping the temptation step in the hero's journey: My first time through the underground tunnel, I was tricked into thinking I might be underwater by the lighting and the way the cloth (which resembles seaweed) causes you to float. But it isn't really water, because you can only float so long as you maintain contact with the cloth. It isn't until the temple that you find the "true" water that lets you float continuously (and water's important, since the game is set in a desert).
Something that strikes me is that, at least to part of the development team, the Road of Trials is in a different position in the journey of the game than its presented here. According to the soundtrack, the theme 'the Road of Trials' occurs BEFORE the Belly of the Beast. It's actually sliding down the sand. This to me actually does work somewhat better than the 'standard' position of the Road of Trials. The sliding level is the closest to a traditional game that exists in Journey. There is the grand adventure of sliding, going through a literal gate trial, and a couple platforming bits if you want all 21 glyphs. But, that is segmented by literal puzzle segments. They aren't hard, of course, but you have to clear the puzzle to be able to continue in the adventure. Contrast this to the Tower, which has some flying puzzles, but is really the 'exposition dump' of the game. You don't feel much like it's an obstacle to your goal, but the first moment where your goal makes sense. To me, this is kind of like the ending of Belly of the Whale, framed, like the later Apotheiosis, as a literal ascent. You come out of the darkness with a new understanding, and a new preparedness. You know why you are trying to climb the mountain, and where you came from (there is an ancient Ancestor-fish-thing in the level to support this). It isn't designed to block your path; the Mountain does that enough. It's instead a celebration and a final push. I think the end of this could be read as a Meeting the Goddess moment. The White Figure in this one is the first time the background isn't white, and instead leans into the player as the roof is turned to stars. It really made clear to me how much the White Figures cared for and relied on the player, creating a sense of attachment so that the mountain is more than a challenge for the sake of challenge, but something pursued for genuine desire and affection.
I believe the temptress in stage 8 is this new-found pride he has acquired. It is noticed as he prepares to pass through the final gate after she has completed the mountain challenge. When she interacts with all of the other gates, he assumes a meditation pose presumably as a sign of respect to his ancestors. as she interacts with the last gate, however, he instead stands before the being as if they are equals. I believe this pride caused him to disregard the being's warning of death...
Yes, the story of a young girl avenging her father's death after he literally goes through hell to save her is truly the most silliest and light-hearted of all, what with it's iron red hell atmosphere and the pacing of a darkened supernatural drama is totally unforgivable.
Ok, so here's the soundtrack for Journey.
- Nascence
- The call
- First confluence
- Second Confluence
- Threshold
- Third Confluence
- The road of trials
- Fourth Confluence
- Temptations
- Descent
- Fifth confluence
- Atonement
- Final confluence
- Reclamation
- Nadir
- Apotheosis
- I was born for this
So yeah.
The Secret Walrus, my favorite was “The Road Of Trials”
Austin Wintory knows what he’s doing.
I actually think it's weird that you guys thought that Journey skipped Woman as Temptress. The moment that I always perceived as this is that one final cave you encounter as you ascend the mountain. While you're in it, your scarf recharges automatically, you don't have wind buffeting you, and for the first time in ages, you can safely fly with your partner again. Every time I play through that, both me and my partner linger in that pointless little cave a bit longer than anyone should before finally leaving and going to face the dragons one last time. That last moment of warmth and power before the final ascent of the mountain needs to be denied in order to complete the game, which fits the "Physical as Temptress" aspect pretty well.
I don't think Journey actually skips the 'meeting with the goddess' section. They just approach it in a different way, in the form of the 'other players' part of the game.
I don't know about everyone else but my experience with journey saw people working together, assisting each other through the hardest moments, even giving up their own progress at times in order to help each other (in the form of backtracking through difficult platforming sections to assist). These moments, especially the times when you have to rely on each other in the mountains, and sections directly following promotes closeness with this person you don't know, making you want to know even more about them.
To me, thats the love.
+Steps1000 I completely agree with this statement, I watched at least all of the let's plays of journey because I clearly don't have a life and you are so correct.
Steps1000 At the very end of the game when we were going into the mountain the player I was playing with made a heart shape in the snow and my heart melted into a puppy
Ha ha, Thats cute.
Really nice people in that game.
and me, the player that got the game way after the release. #foever alone
Christian W. OH don't worry about that, I thought the exact same thing, but I met loads of other players, which honestly really surprised me.
In journey the entities that guide you are veteran players?! My mind is literally blown
**loads up .50 BMG** Literal mind blow? **TCHRIKCHRACKK** That can be arranged.
In a philosophy course, I actually used Bioshock as an example for the Hero's Journey. The swim to the lighthouse is the call to action, the gift from the gods is your first hit of ADAM, the trials and temptations are being led along by Atlas, the moment of rebirth happens after the climatic confrontation with Andrew Ryan, transformation occurs when you become free of the chains that bind you, atonement occurs when you face Fontaine, and the return is in the ending (good ending, of course).
well done
Zelda: Ocarina of Time does an excellent job with "the Threshold", when you're leaving the village and all the people wish you luck - and some are convinced you won't come back ever or for a long time - it really sinks in that things are not going to be as they have been, that your "old life" is over for good or for a while.
That game does an excellent job at portraying the Hero's journey. The Apotheosis can be represented through the light arrows obtained just before the finale, ascending Link to great heights, and purity. I especially love Ocarina's return, which is a literal reversal of time as Link goes back to his younger self, and sets out on a new journey, with new found knowledge. Very powerful stuff.
The titles of Journey's official soundtrack reflect the Hero's Journey:
Below is the complete soundtrack for Journey
Title - Length
1. Nascence - 1:47
2. The Call - 3:39
3. First Confluence - 1:40
4. Second Confuence - 2:20
5. Threshold - 6:05
6. Third Confluence - 1:40
7. The Road of Trials - 4:16
8. Fourth Confluence - 1:07
9. Temptations - 4:13
10. Descent - 2:40
11. Fifth Confluence - 1:23
12. Atonement - 6:11
13. Final Confluence - 2:06
14. The Crossing - 1:58
15. Reclamation - 2:16
16. Nadir - 3:37
17. Apotheosis - 6:00
18. I Was Born For This - 4:41
Couldn't the Meeting with the Goddess arguably be the time you spend with another player? If you stick with a player for a long time there tends to be a bond that forms, platonic or romantic.
Look at the titles of the OST for Journey.
I blanched to.
*****
It is astounding, isn't it? :3
That's how I got to the book "The hero with a thousand face" :D
Dude you blew my mind. I've been listening to the OST for years but never noticed... xD
A really cool thing about this Hero's journey and the game Journey, is that on the soundtrack, several of the track names directly correspond with different parts of hero's journey. Namely, The Road of Trials, Threshold, and Apotheosis.
wouldn't meeting with the goddess ( finding love) be something happening the whole time? you and your online buddy have been on this journey together. don't say you didn't feel something when they, being new, don't know to stay out of the dragon's light and get snatched up. a pang oh "OH GOD NO!" goes through you before you realize they are okay. for a moment, you think your best friend was just killed.
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is a great example of the Hero's Journey, in that it not only covers one, but several for each of the characters. The Elric brothers have the fullest use of the Hero's Journey, of course, but the characters of Roy Mustang, Ling Yao, and Scar also have their own journeys. You don't see all the steps acted out for them, which makes sense considering that they're not the main focus, but if you pay attention you can see a pattern in each of their arcs that is similar to the Elrics. It's fascinating and impressive that the author was able to do that without making the story too convoluted or unfocused.
I agree; it's what makes it a fascinating story, and one of my favorites.
I also like how they used the true source of the Philosopher's stone (something that could have been a minor detail) as both the Refusal of Call and also of the Apotheosis when Alphonse gets the Stone and Lin and Greed work together.
yeah but that story was boring and felt like a lot the episodes where unneccessary like the show could have been shorter
Murderous Johnny You might be thinking of the first anime, which had a bunch of filler episodes. Brotherhood was the remake that followed the manga more closely and had a tighter and more streamlined story.
gingervampireFTW lmao
no the first show was actually really good. And that's most likely because they had the chance of getting away from the manga and set their own tone/style and actually made a drama show that works.
The second show on the other hand was filled with tons of shonen cliches and that is a bad thing.
gingervampireFTW Not really. While I love both anime, 2003 has much better pacing than Brotherhood.
I love how much of their stuff applies to game developing as well as literature. You guys have helped me a lot with writing! Thanks!
5:23
OK, this is all the proof I need to say that the people in charge of Extra Credits are Avatar the Last Airbender fans. Thanks for the references. They're awesome.
For stage 7/8, I believe this is more of a play mechanic that I experienced with this, and it might have been me, although they were a bit out of order. for 7, the love aspect, I found this with my companion, although it was not conventional love. After a shocking moment where I was under assault by one of the robots creatures, and my companion (who joined me only soon after crossing the fabric bridge), took the hit. The absolute fear, shock and worry for the moments as they didn't move was one of the most influential points in the game. if that isn't a trial, i don't know what is.
As for the Temptation, I believe that this is the segments of the scarf that you can collect, although they are not essential for me they felt like power, like I was stronger then I started, yet trying to find/get them all lead to a possible loss of the progression of my own experience, this is held in a lesser extent, but i still think holds up.
I know this is an old video, but you have to know this: THE TITLES OF THE SOUNDTRACK MATCH WITH THE STAGES EXACTLY! Just look at the track names, its all there!
Just returned from YT playthrough of Journey.
Seriously, this is game design done right. Art, music, game mechanic, everything supports each other and brings you a story, told without a single word.
Notice how, before the descent, the game allows you to slide through the sand, suggesting you to play around with gates and slopes. How, during the ascend, you are allowed to soar almost endlessly. This is to give you a sense of lightness, to show you just how good it could be to live.
This sets a base for comparison. How did they show that the snowy mountain is hostile? The cold drains your scarf power. The wind blows your character, making you lose control of him. Later, it blows your scarf away altogether. Everything fades away, you slowly lose sight of the ground, of your objective, of your character, music stops, the wind noise dies down, and the sound of step becomes rarer and rarer, until everything is completely devoured by the white.
And then, you fly again. You obtain a huge scarf, and the world becomes filled with sources, which once gain lets you feel good.
And the most wonderful thing is, the format of game lets you _feel_ with the character. You soar together with him/her, and you struggle along in the journey. No other medium can let you feel the story with the character this way. Games are unique medium, and Journey excels in showing that.
Journey's OST:
01. Nascence.
02. The Call
03. First Confluence
04. Second Confluence:
05. Threshold
06. Third Confluence:
07. The Road of Trials
08. Fourth Confluence
09. Temptations
10. Descent
11. Fifth Confluence
12. Atonement
13. Final Confluence
14. The Crossing:
15. Reclamation
16. Nadir
17. Apotheosis
18. I was Born for This
I recently replayed Journey while looking at a source that gave a version of the Hero's Journey. I don't know how close to Campbell it was, as there were several differences, but I found an interesting interpretation of the return.
The site listed it as a return to the mundane works having experienced fantastic new experiences and being enriched and better for it. I'd argue that this last stage, much like refusal, is actually aimed at the player directly. You finish the game, turn of the machine, but you've had a fantastical experience, that of wager must people feel enriched by. I think this fits particularly well as I viewed it as your character isn't returning, they're still up the mountain, but you can start again as a new character from your old one's actions.
Thanks a lot for these couple episodes! I'm not aiming to be a game dev, but the design talk is fascinating enough to keep me coming back. However, whenever you bring something storytelling related to my attention, it's always a huge help, as I want to be a writer.
I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but the titles for some of the Journey OST tracks are the names of these steps. Mind blown.
Journey is my third favorite video game of all time (following “The Walking Dead: A Telltale Series” and “The Last of Us”), so I’m glad to see it being covered like this.
U guys will probably never read this but I wanted to thank you guys forr theses videos u guys help me graduate in english bc of this video it inspired me to dig deeper in to this concept on the hero's journey
Dominic Donovan well that graduate didn't help you
Carlo Davies Man, I wrote that like 3 years ago. Im shocked that you actually found it.
If you download the Journey soundtrack album, the music of certain tracks ARE NAMED AFTER THESE STAGES!!! Mind...blown.
Watching this video made me understand the meaning behind the names the composers of Journey gave to the soundtrack songs. Literally each step has it's own name as a track. This is brilliant
It's interesting that, without knowing anything about (the theory of) The Hero's Journey, the rough idea/sketch I had for a Fantasy story followed some of those steps very close, changed around the order of some of them and turned some of them completely on their heads. This shows that it really is a tool better suited for examination than as a blueprint.
Nearly all of the tracks in Journey are named after the stages in the Hero's Journey, which is either a nice bit of intertextuality or is just a happy coincidence.
The names of the tracks in the Journey soundtrack literally follow the stages of the Hero's Journey; excluding the various "Confluence" stages (the visions at the end of each level), they are:
Nascence
The Call
Threshold
The Road of Trials
Temptations
Descent
Atonement
The Crossing
Reclamation
Nadir
Apotheosis
I was Born for This (this is the "return" to be beginning at the conclusion of the game)
The great thing about this show (apart from EVERYTHING) is that it makes me think about things that I otherwise wouldn't have thought about.
I love Journey but I never would have imagined any of this stuff until I saw this video.
This episode in particular seems to do a great job of showing just how easy it is to fail at implementing this Capbell idea into a story.
Releeshan! Every single time you guys make a Myst reference, my heart leaps with joy.
These episodes have to be my favorite. This explains a LOT of story arcs in games, books, movies, etc.
Same here. The parts I've had worked out fit perfectly, and this actually gave me some ideas to fully flesh out the rest.
I just realized my story has all of these elements, and I didn't even know it.
o_o whoa.
I just realised that the story I'm writing kind of combines The Call and The Supernatural Aid and Crossing The Threshold and Refusal of the Call...or at least they're in the wrong order.
The usual order is
Call, Refusal, Aid, Threshold.
Mine seems to go
Aid, Threshold, Call, Refusal
Randygandalf95 Wow.
TheUltimateFanBoy Yeah, the person gets their powers (aid), is taken away by the good guys (who use also powers) (threshold), is introduced to the conflict between the good guys and bad guys (call) and then doesn't want to fight (refusal), which doesn't last very long as he kind of has to fight.
As someone who has a whole game idea going up and up and in games design, this is really helping me form an idea of story line and of my hero.
Plus, your other videos have always helped me in other situations of the game.
I have to thank you guys for that. Keep up the good work ^^
The final song in Journey is even titled Apotheosis :)
Mind blown for me as well.
What is interesting as well: The song "apotheosis" is played during the long sand-gliding scene, just before the fall into the dark level. Which preshadows and mirrors the final stage, where you have the same music during the long flying scene and a fall (as a star) to the beginning of the game.
As someone who has found viewing life through Hero's Journey tinted glasses to be something beneficial I'm so glad you touched on this subject!
I'll be looking out for that book now, thanks for recommending it!
I remember other players leading me to segments of scarf they had already discovered, then later leading someone else to that same spot. It is a beautiful circle.
Apotheosis is actually named in Journey. It's one of the songs (I'm pretty sure the one where Steve (the character) Dies, and ascends to the peaceful mountain peaks)
my favorite piece of the game
ilikecookies230 That and the end credits theme are my favorites.
Well, thank you extra credits, i really did learn alot with these 2 episodes. I really do love this channel and it's informative/entertaining style.
For a school presentation on The Hero's Journey, I used the game Journey as well. However, I used the soundtrack as a guide to when the motifs are used. The music for the parts of the game actually have names like, "The Call", "Threshold," "The Road of Trials," "Temptations," "Decent," "Atonement," and "Apotheosis." Therefore, I saw the Threshold, for example, as the Desert where you are introduced to the dolphin-like creatures and the dark tower at the end. Atonement would be ascending the tower. Etcetera. I doubt anyone will come across this comment on a pretty old video though... Oh well.
Boom I actually read your comment.
BTW pretty good use of video games in school
I'll be honest, once the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann burst onto the screen, I had a giant grin on my face like you would hardly believe.
I had a realization that my story's Belly of the Whale is actually combined with an incidental Refusal of the Call. Basically, the main character/player should be having fun with some sidequests while waiting for news of a powerful magical artefact they've been looking for.
And then the villain shows up while they were gone, reminding the player of their presence. And at the same time, the artefact has been located. So you get jarred back into the "oh, yeah. I had something serious to do." and sent back into the story.
I would argue that the meeting with the goddess stage is not left out of journey. Durning my playthrough, I think the meeting with another player and subsequent teamwork we used to get through was one of the most powerful things I've ever felt. during the sections in the snowy winter area, and after what felt like forever in loneliness I saw the glow. Someone was in front of me and I felt so amazingly happy.
One of the best things about portal is the constant learning. The game is roughly 65% tutorial which keeps things new at every turn.
I think that "Meeting with the Goddess" is the interaction with other players since you can chose to support and help each other while you are on your journey and you can grow affection for each other. (In fact it's pretty much customary to draw a heart for your companion before you enter the mountain). I also think that the "Woman of Temptress" is actually the scarf itself, since it's made of the old power that corrupted your ancestors, many people will go out of their way and "waste time" collecting these pieces for a power that is pretty much already useful, and once you collect them all you wear garb similar to your predecessors implying that you have become power-hungry like them. (Also it is implied that the rune fragments are actually souls of other players who have completed their journey which adds a level of implied evil)
I have to call out the last aspect where you can apply your knowledge other players because that's entirely dependent on connecting to the servers. I have never been able to connect with the Journey servers so for me I never had that last step as you described it. However I do often apply it simply through playing the game itself more efficiently; I know the secrets and hints and so can make it through the Journey much more smoothly.
Wow, they were even less subtle than we thought.
I love it.
I remember this game from a while ago. Thanks for reminding me how awesome it was
BIG KUDOS for showing bits from The Secret of Kells! I sometimes feel like nobody else saw that beautiful masterpiece.
In Journey I believe that, as you call it Physical as Temptress, does exist though it appears alongside the road of trials, the climb up the mountain towards the end goal. Many first time players will attempt to rush through this and the wind or the dragons will strip bits of your scarf away, in the case of the Dragons as much as half of your scarf's length will be lost if you fail to be patient, in the end though retaining your scarf's length does nothing for you as the cold gradually strips the power from the scarf itself, rendering it useless. You hold onto your scarf because, it's something you've come to rely on and losing it would cripple you, even though it does nothing for you. As for the meeting with the goddess it's arguable that Journey does skip it, but during the second time playing I found myself trying to communicate with the players I helped along the way and to warn them of dangers almost as a parent would try to shield and forewarn their children about the harsh reality beyond the door. This may be just me but there is something to be said for the online aspect in this game imparting a feeling of being a mentor to the player you're working with and the desire to protect them from the dangers they will face later in the game. Either by stepping out and taking the dragon's attention from your partner to let them keep their scarf, as you have realized by the end of the road of trials the length of the scarf isn't what matters at all, so they don't feel like they've been stripped of some of their power.
I was just writing a D&D campaign before I watched this video, and then I realized the story actually in many ways follows the hero's journey.
That meeting the goddess part.. doesn't the other player count as them?
My most recent play through partner and I literally drew hearts in the sand at the end, so yeah, maybe.
"And now you can charge straight to the final obstacles that stand between you and your goal"
Clever use of Leeroy Jenkins
HL2's version: 1: Awoken by the G-Man 2:Skipped kinda 3:Getting the gravity gun 4:Going to Ravenholm 5: More Ravenholm 6: Long road section (Bridge, antlions, Nova Prospekt etc) 7: In Nova Prospekt seeing the love between Alyx and Eli 8: Skipped 9: Beginning of the revolution and going to the Citadel 10: Getting the supercharged gravity gun 11: Taken back by the G-Man.
Is it fair to call Gordan Freeman a hero? He doesn't exactly refuse the call, and, as far as I recall, there's no way to, mechanically, either. He just gets told that he will be the one to save everyone and then does it. It's very much silent protagonist syndrome.
Danmarinja You could argue that you refuse the call at the end of HL1, when you are given the option to not accept the GMan's offer and end up sent to a room full of monsters.
You could argue that that is the point when Freeman becomes a Hero (capital H) because by HL2 he's already achieved the first goal of the hero: kleos- renown.
Well actually with the 9th step you sort of go through that just before your reborn your companion always dies first in this you yourself feel alone and come to find them as something you don't want to lose even when going on another journey this companion is unique that you don't want to lose them. The player also may go through the 10th step as you and your companion are reunited now and have this beautiful land to have fun in and nothing is holding you back yet in the end your journey must end and by the time you reach the peak and realize your now locked you want to go back you want to keep your friend you don't want to go forward but you need to go forward and its this that drives you as you learn to choose over your wants for what is needed even if you don't like it.
Watching this, reminds me of my play through of Shadow Warrior. It follows the Heroes Journey for sure.
I got to play Journey very late, so sadly I have never met another player. I watched some let's plays of it and found secrets though those gamer's playthroughs, so in a way they helped me too.
It has been mentioned in the comments before, but The titles of Journey's soundtrack hint to the Hero's Journey as well. It also is an amazing soundtrack worth checking out (it even was nominated for a grammy).
A thought based on my personal experience with journey: Regarding the "meeting with the goddess" step, I would argue that after the underground sections, in which me and my unknown partner took turns luring the dragons away from each other, and then the road of trials, in which a vetern player will definitely help any new player, I at least felt a kinship with my anonnymous partner. It may not be love but it was a definite emotional connection I've not often felt in gaming.
Journey the game brought me here. A really deep and intelligent video. And you do really well to not make this boring like so many analysiseseses do on RUclips.
You know, if I ever get the time for some heavy duty writing, I would love to use these steps as a literal outline for a story just as an exercise in thought. It could be quite interesting.
Thanks for the presentation, and congratulations to everyone, but especially to James who wrote a pair of very excellent episodes. Very well done.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the moment at the top of the temple where you're shown the mural of your entire journey. That seems like it could be categorized as one of these elements.
Amazing video. This one deserves rewatching a time per game/story to reflect upon.
Ahhh loved the Secret of Kells so much
I wish that you had covered my favorite point to look for in hero's journey stories: The departure of the mentor.
Respectfully, your observation tells me that we need them now more than ever.
Thank you . I was building a minecraft adventure map. I came close to finishing it and found myself unhappy with how it was going and stopped. This made me want to go back and think about what I did wrong. I could never thank you enough.
Ya know, I saw this video when it first came out. I liked it and learned some stuff.
But just today (due to a sale) I bought Journey from the PSN and played it. Speechless. I am speechless at how wonderous and amazing this game works as a literal and metaphoric journey.
I just rewatched these extra credits videos. And I almost can even fathom how amazing this short game is, snd how I, others and everyone in life experience this journey.
I am in awe
After watching Edge of Tomorrow, it struck me that it's almost a perfect fit for all the steps of the hero's journey. Anybody else notice this? Always nice to see this archetype pop up in modern works.
And in a single moment, Evangelion was spoiled for thousands... thanks EC, thanks...
It is 20 years old. If someone hasn't watched it already, given how much the anime community talks about it, they aren't going to. Besides, they're more likely to spoil it than anyone.
I just learned about it, and was gonna watch it later :(
Christopher Park
Sucks, but tough bananas. This should be an indicator to watch it sooner now.
MisterGunpowder I just started, but I was a little daunted by the original anime's episode count, so I said fuck it and watched the movie remakes.
Christopher Park
A better idea, too.
So I've subconsciously created stories that follow along this theory? Man, media and storytelling has a much more diverse impact upon your psyche that I'd previously thought.
I am an aspiring writer, not of games, but of books. It is interesting to learn about this hero's journey, as I never had the ability to read about this. It also allows one to tell a more unique story knowing the template many have used. Also as a gamer, I have noticed this in the games that I have played. It is a common template, but its not the template itself. Its what we make with it. Knowing what I do, I hope to use this information to make a more unique tale, that may tell a new heros tale
After watching this I realized that a story I've kinda formed over the years without really trying accidentally fits this progression, for the most part. You weren't kidding, I guess it really is something that we just gravitate toward regardless of culture.
I also find that the atonement with the father is synonymous with the kill your gods archetype witch Campbell does touch on as well.
OMG I just realized how SO CLOSELY Morrowind's Main Quest follows the structure of the hero's journey. You were NOT kidding about how closely RPG games follow this structure.
i think that the woman as tempress are the collectables, as in this stages are the ones you have to go far away from your path to collect them.
the meeting could also bee the reveeling of the wall
good point! instead of distracting the character, collectables usually tempt the player himself away from the main quest.
Wow, I'm creating an Anime/Manga series, and without thinking I already had over half of the concepts in the Hero's Journey just thinking of it. Now I'm interested to re-look at the concepts again to see if I do have all of them. Thanks guys!
I almost cried at the end of journey such an amazing game
"You got an awesome sword; Now you can fight ALL THE THINGS!"
Great line! I lol'd :P
I actually find alot of good tips for writing in general from these guys.
AT first I thought this was just a cool game theory. However, I definitely think you're right - in the Journey Soundtrack, the music played when you 'ascend' IS titled Apotheosis. I bet you knew that already, but I think it cements it in my mind that you're definitely spot on with this analysis of Journey.
It's "Brendan and the Secret of Kells", an animated feature that was nominated for an oscar alongside "Up" and "Coraline". It... has nothing else to do with these movies and i feel it is targeted at kids (still very dark at times and also good for grown ups - but not as much so as some other animations), but it displays an AMAZING visual style, quite a unique story topic, time it is set in and a very nice score. I recommend it to everybody who likes animation.
Developing on that idea, even though I haven't played the game, I beleive that the white robed beings are both the maternal figure in addition to the father figure. They already had a hard time deciding between the two, what's preventing it from being both ?
A supportive, yet dominant being fits perfectly into both of those steps.
I would argue that the Meeting with the Goddess, does in fact show up in journey, but only subtly. When climbing through the mountains, you find a frozen cloth creature, which you think you'll need in order to keep you from freezing and losing your ability to fly. However is does not follow you, and you end up missing it and really getting to understand how much it was worth to you earlier in the game, and how much you wish it were with you during the rest of your journey up the mountain.
This was really interesting. I noticed that when making up a story I to some extent follow this formula instinctively. I think, I need to rewatch this at some point.
I would agree. As Plato describes there are different kinds of love, not just between lovers or family members.
Video games have become a new, interactive form of mythology. And I love it!
Please invite Gab to do your art more often. I love her work.
Robert Jordan (and Brandon Sanderson) does this so very very well in Wheel of Time.
Disney's hercules just popped into my mind and it follows these steps exactly. Mind blown.
Carlos Salazar Yes I know, but I'm amazed at how close the steps are to the story. Also, I know it's greek mythology but I don't know how much of the story was adapted to the movie and how much of it is exactly like the story it is based on.
Disney's Hercules is pretty much nothing like the mythological Hercules except that he's Zeus' kid and we see some of the trials in a montage. Everything else is pretty much bullshit. Including who his mother was (Zeus would stick his dick in anything and Disney is too wholesome for literal bastard children)
There's even a music track in Journey called 'Apotheosis' which plays during the apotheosis part of the game!
The Hero with a Thousand Faces is an awesome book.
Tales of the Abyss did the "heroes Journey" very well, as it has some of the greatest character development i have ever experienced in a JRPG. The Last of Us was great in this regard as well.
Also the Woman as Temptress could be interpreted in Journey as the point when the desire to be the lone wolf or leader of the pair must be sacrificed, especially in the snow levels. Now it's not mandatory to stay next to your partner but it certainly helps a lot in using your scarf and in the snow levels helps the characters move faster. It's when you know it's better to work together than to go at it alone.
Or maybe, kind of along the lines of the refusal of the call, it could be the temptation to go out of your way to collect the shiny symbols.
so the start of the journey could be just as well boredom of the hero and the wanting of a new fresh Wind in his/her life to go on the journey?
The wizard over the pinnacle near the end...The Last Unicorn.
Same steps too, for him...
RE "Journey" skipping the temptation step in the hero's journey: My first time through the underground tunnel, I was tricked into thinking I might be underwater by the lighting and the way the cloth (which resembles seaweed) causes you to float. But it isn't really water, because you can only float so long as you maintain contact with the cloth. It isn't until the temple that you find the "true" water that lets you float continuously (and water's important, since the game is set in a desert).
Something that strikes me is that, at least to part of the development team, the Road of Trials is in a different position in the journey of the game than its presented here. According to the soundtrack, the theme 'the Road of Trials' occurs BEFORE the Belly of the Beast. It's actually sliding down the sand.
This to me actually does work somewhat better than the 'standard' position of the Road of Trials. The sliding level is the closest to a traditional game that exists in Journey. There is the grand adventure of sliding, going through a literal gate trial, and a couple platforming bits if you want all 21 glyphs. But, that is segmented by literal puzzle segments. They aren't hard, of course, but you have to clear the puzzle to be able to continue in the adventure.
Contrast this to the Tower, which has some flying puzzles, but is really the 'exposition dump' of the game. You don't feel much like it's an obstacle to your goal, but the first moment where your goal makes sense. To me, this is kind of like the ending of Belly of the Whale, framed, like the later Apotheiosis, as a literal ascent. You come out of the darkness with a new understanding, and a new preparedness. You know why you are trying to climb the mountain, and where you came from (there is an ancient Ancestor-fish-thing in the level to support this). It isn't designed to block your path; the Mountain does that enough. It's instead a celebration and a final push.
I think the end of this could be read as a Meeting the Goddess moment. The White Figure in this one is the first time the background isn't white, and instead leans into the player as the roof is turned to stars. It really made clear to me how much the White Figures cared for and relied on the player, creating a sense of attachment so that the mountain is more than a challenge for the sake of challenge, but something pursued for genuine desire and affection.
I believe the temptress in stage 8 is this new-found pride he has acquired. It is noticed as he prepares to pass through the final gate after she has completed the mountain challenge. When she interacts with all of the other gates, he assumes a meditation pose presumably as a sign of respect to his ancestors. as she interacts with the last gate, however, he instead stands before the being as if they are equals. I believe this pride caused him to disregard the being's warning of death...
Yes, the story of a young girl avenging her father's death after he literally goes through hell to save her is truly the most silliest and light-hearted of all, what with it's iron red hell atmosphere and the pacing of a darkened supernatural drama is totally unforgivable.