Appreciate you having me on dude, was a fun chat, legit could have continued for another hour, tbh I was kinda nervous coming on since I haven't been on a livestream or a podcast for years but you're a great host and are easy to talk to, hope you can get Asmongold on for a chat at some point.
I genuinely do not understand the amount of vitriol around this game. I don't like or play P2W games typically, but the warframe approach they take with this game's premium currency is HUGE, and I make more lucent in the game than I could ever afford to buy. I'm not aiming to be #1 on the server, and frankly most of the people this upset by the monetization would never be that either. The game is just legitimately fun to play.
Most people just hold onto these words and scream them out of the top of their lungs while sperging out at people who enjoy the game. What these people don't understand is that the game isn't p2w in the traditional sense, where you buy a pack or gear directly from the premium store, but you actually purchase currency that will be circulating in the economy, it doesn't just disappear, and thanks to the people purchasing this currency I have been able to keep on gearing my character and still have around 10k lucent at all times, just by selling stuff I don't need.
Except the over reliance on being in the largest alliance in the server else you cant do anything. Get a rare drop? Sucks for you, straight into the guild AH. The game is predatory, people are still in the honeymoon phase.
@@Dx_Ach You are simply misunderstanding. Not being part of a top guild on your server literally only affects like 1% of the entirety of the game. If you are being blocked from a boss, you simply play the peace version of that boss. Guild taking your loot? That's an OPTION, if you join a guild that does this, you are free to leave my guy. This problem you're describing IS a problem, but it is literally so small you shouldnt even be worried about it.
Grapple is extremely scuffed even without any other interactables nearby. For example Temple of Slaughter. The Piton simply doesn't work half the time for the whole of Europe.
We already have a "Marking System" (Heart, Arrow, Shield etc.) in the game, it would be good to expand it to include the possibility of marking opponents mobs/players (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) it would be helpful both in PvE and PvP. PvE when we have a large group of mobs, so that the Team Leader (Tank) could indicate in what order we kill the monsters, in PvP, it would be useful to target important targets.
@@3in24 I mean, what he puts on the videos and how he is in game it totally different. He has a guild that has been caught scripting and even their guild leader macro cheats. He blocks bosses with eclipse eventhough he came on and says he doesnt. His guild moves servers to avoid epherium and only lets whales/scripters in and griefs low level players. (Shroud/Steptaru for example). Ask anyone on our server, they are hated... even by guilds that challenge them for what they stand for. its sad.
@@lincolnjohnson4428 sounds pretty based to me, crying about eclipse in a game like throne is wild. Also id like to see the videos of them being caught. Source?!
@34:10 The fact we think about being sold solutions as an "OK" format to the hardcore P2W is the glaring issue we live in with MMOs today. we're so kicked down and beaten into that submissive p2w aspect that we don't truly fathom how insane it is. I'm not saying peon is wrong and frankly he's saying what I was thinking myself but something needs to be done about it. Every MMO that has this method isn't getting the money we spend back into it, it's going into pockets of grinchs that have never played games in their lives. I don't think we will see the full contingency plans they have in place for TnL until it dips 10x fold. Thats when the quick insurgence of these P2W/PFC accessories and mechanics come into play. New World being that stark example of this with it's gearsets, and to a lesser degree ESO's pet vendors / QoL skill instant-use scrolls.
In Poland for this money, you would be paying for own apartment, and buying it after 10years with this amount of money. Or just renting like 150m flat in BIGGEST cities
floor 19 in secret dungeon for me i cant even even jump on the first platforms because my character gets stuck in a falling animation for over 2mins then i suddenly die
I never heard of you before throne and liberty my dude. But you are such an amazing personality to watch during guides, discussions and other content, you would kick ass covering anything you get your hands on.
No one can beat Credit Card players. That's the reality. In my server they just zerg any conflict event. 3 Guild alliances. Players like Kanon cannot/will not experience that because he's a whale and plays 24/7. I just skip any conflict events.
Remember when we just bought games and played them, and any kind of pay to win was bad? Now we are like "I think its okay if they sell us an equipment slot for $10 as long as it is a one-time purchase" like how ridiculous is this? The Overton window forever marches forward to the beat of the company's investors.
Another issue that I feel isn't discussed enough is that whenever PvE players complain about the lack of meaningful, skill-expressive PvE content, many people dismiss them by saying that this is a PvP-focused game. They suggest that if players aren’t willing to put in the effort to become PvP-ready-joining high-ranking guilds and committing to significant time investment and/or spending money-this game isn't for them. Honestly, fair enough (though not really, because the game isn’t sustainable without PvE players and the casual crowd. After all, the dominance hierarchy that allows top guilds to exist necessitates the existence of casual players from a numbers perspective). However, when the 'bread and butter' of the game-boonstones, conflict bosses, sieges-plays out at anywhere from 15-25 FPS (not even including console players who inevitably get worse frames) for the average PC player, many people will be turned off. For reference, I have an X3D chip, 32 GB of RAM, and a 7800XT-not an amazing build, but certainly capable-and I imagine others have it much worse. Don't get me wrong, the game is incredibly well-optimized given how seamless and 'one-world' it feels when exploring, but when you center your game's primary content around gameplay that most players can only experience at a fraction of the frames their PCs can push in most modern titles, you have a problem. That is just one of less-talked-about factors out of many that will inevitably cause this game to become a niche title, as Kanon suggested in the video. The honeymoon phase, driven by an explosive population of players exploring and engaging in this 'one-world' experience, will eventually die down, particularly for casual and PvE players. When that happens, the foundation that enables GvG content to flourish will crumble all the same. I really hope this game sticks around for a while, even as a niche title, because it's still a very cool concept that deserves its flowers. However, unless the devs shift gears and develop a better incentive structure that is conducive to the PvE experience-which seems unlikely given how adamant they are about their vision-the game will fail to generate the lasting appeal needed to be known as a great MMO comparable to some of the powerhouses in the genre. And that's fine, but it will genuinely feel like a lost opportunity that could have been used to create some truly special.
Honestly, you guys talking about the big moment memories on the server had me craving a bit of EVE Online, because even if space pew pew isn't your thing, there is no denying the developers have struck an incredible balance to allow sandbox moments like that. I highly recommend checking out some highlights, as the history of EVE is kinda insane, with the biggest of alliances being taken out by spies and subversion, or just outright tactics, so it's something T&L could look at and take some inspiration from.
40:00 ironically this is what happened in ArcheAge. It got to a point where one faction was dominating so hard that they would often give content to the opposite factions to try make the server better.
Just curious why is it you don’t touch WoW Kanon ? I recently started during dragon flight and found it fun. Haven’t dived deep into the endgame raids yet though. So was just genuinely curious? Wondering if something happens later on I might not care for.
46:00 something I feel could solve some of the one group serve take over.. have it to where when an alliance/s show up, non guild players (or some version of this) can join a certain amount to the smaller side to temporarily aid them
The option to clear target when clicking on the ground and it doesn't work for friendly targets is so weird. If you play a class which also has healing as wand for instance, you become crazy
They could lock out any extra guild mates past 36 people in one event. Have the barrier come up like they do when you die after a world boss. You can bring 70 people, but only 36 at a time can participate?
Oh man, someone mentioned cryy in the chat, and I haven't seen a video from him in sooooo long. Now I have to look him up. Edit: i did, and he doesn't post anymore, really, but I was subscribed still. Sad 😢
The way to potentially fix the PvP open world is to remove alliances or make it to where the the top 10 or 20 guilds are not allowed to alliance each other. Ours top 10 companies are all allied up so it's basically impossible to take conflict bosses.
Removing alliances won't solve anything because they will just create sister guilds and still be allies under the table, just not on paper. It can be an inconvenient but well organized groups can still take advantage of this. The issue is the advantage the alliances give and the WHY they would get one. That's what needs to be targeted and a lot boils down to lucent which will never ever be removed.
i agree. old school runescape is such an insanely good game. especially ironman mode. no other game has as much to do and such a strong and clear progression in everything you do. some people are turned off by the graphics but never judge a book by its cover.
First thing they should fix is Junobote, the peace Junobote is dominated by massive alliances when they used the PVP skill to force PVP in Sanctum and gatekeep all the other players.
f2p 2712 finished codex and with battle pass and level pass 10/10 i hated this game on the 2nd week of playing because i was aloser and did not understand anything
@@knowlen yea im full purple with my set just need to unlock some traits and upgrade them im doing a different way of gearing ik i could do the blue method but this way makes me fell good
2700 is nothing bro. CP points are nothing. traits are everything=P2W. traits are the gear not your Combat Power Points... People stop listening to people like this guy above.... your CP points have nothing to do with what you are going to do. You can have 3300 CP points and you wont hit anything if they are traited against you. stop misleading people who havent hit 50 to bring your player base up
Nice video to listen to while playing throne lol, glad you guys discussed the issue of a zerg "mollywhopping" everyone as you put it, even if there weren't any silver bullet solutions. I'm curious if devs are brainstorming about it
I didn't know much about LazyPeon and I was a bit pulled off watching more of his content after his initial TnL review, but that podcast really shown me that I had it wrong about the guy. I actually think his take on the Castle Siege and the war "drama" was on spot. It really spices up the game and it's one of the reason I'm playing TnL.
Great video, peons a king. (Also on Stormbringer in NSFW guild) WHATAT is coming shortly but the zerg in question is WD they came with 4 guilds and are just mass zerging every event, their cores pretty decent but the other 3 guilds are just straight cannon fodder.
The one guild dominating a server is definitely a valid concern. Maybe I got a lucky server, but dozens of guilds are revolting against the top 2 guilds and forming teams to go kill them in every conflict world boss. They may be more powerful but when you outnumber them 3 to 1 its so funny
Nice stream you too. After they made New World a Cheap-China-Plastic-Toy (thats how i feel like when i play it after Aeternum and i have 1600 hours.) i only play T&L too.
I swear Peon reminds me of some actor or athlete. I can't pinpoint who it is though. Update. I figured it out. His mannerisms are pretty close to Peter Franzén.
Yeah. The fact that in T&L everything is targetable texture(and from different sides) is a problem. I had so many times I launched my Flash Wave into a fkin wall, rather than desperate party in front of me :D But what spins me out the most is trying to target something out of a group of targets or, what Peon said, close range tab targeting. I wish there was a setting to completely disable camera rotation with left mouse button. Imo T&L is more pay-to-be-first than pay-to-win, bcs everything can be achieved in game. It's just faster with money. What they did with a siege and hiding names and everything of players it actually made it even more problematic :D No one knew who is who, so attackers couldn't really organise above alliances, while defenders didn't have that problem because defending alliance sit inside of a castle and their "satellites" were running around and fighting everyone outside :D In result the deal we had on my serv, to take out dominating alliance, failed, because we couldn't uphold the decision not to attack each other, because no one knew who is who and very quickly people gave up on idea bcs they were constantly being attacked by someone else in red. I would argue that T&L gives tools to do daily chores pretty quickly, but definitely not 1 hour :P, but it all depends a lot on with whom you're making your chores. Doing dungeons can take 1 hour or 5 hours, especially now there are 2star dungs worldwide. Once I spent 3 hours doing Island of Terror, over 30 people got in and left before eventually people came with whom I was able to finally end this boss. I would say the fastest one could do everything that is there daily I think you need like 2 hours minimum. 2star 2 times, 1star 3 times, 10 contracts, spending abyssal tokens and doing abyssal quests. Add to it guild bosses, world bosses, region events, arena, some time for upgrading/enchanting and it kinda turns into 3 hours.
Im 50/50 here for the world they built and narration and the Guilds focused content. Most beautiful game of the year I’ve played (basic like starbucks, still super charming ) A good guild makes your experience a thousand times more fun and rewarding.
I think the top guilds/alliances ruining the PVP experience is extremely hard to fix. The problem is, it is a complete vicious cycle. All the strongest players are naturally going to gravitate towards the top guilds. The top guilds are then going to always have higher active player count, since there is a huge demand to join them. The smaller guilds are going to lose every single battle, and get curb-stomped at every conflict boss. People are going to leave the weaker guilds to join the winning guilds. The weaker guilds can never recruit enough people to ever challenge the strongest guilds, since there is no immediate value proposition to joining a weaker guild to hopefully one day become a stronger guild. I genuinely don't know what the solution could be for this. I just know that it is not fun. The guild I am in can get maybe 55 or 60 players online at a time for the big battles, but we can only get 15 or 20 during the typical conflict boss. The top alliance on my server is 3 full 70 person guilds, they bring around 200 people to every single boss fight, and they have perfect weapon distribution for the boonstone and riftstone battles. They are completely unbeatable unless we literally kick the people that we are playing the game with to get better combinations of weapons for a deliberate weapon distribution, and somehow always have 70 people online. It is already almost impossible to get 70 consistently active 2800 CS players in the first place. It is just almost impossible to have a personable guild with people you like playing the game with, while simultaneously having a super strong soul-less meta guild of 70 unemployed people.
and what did you say now? nothing new... the people out in the world are like that. you leave from a job that doesnt pay you enough (so you leave from a guild that doesnt offer you a lot of content to go to higher tier guild with more content). And thats why the game has PEACE world bosses and guild bosses for the players to gear up and then compete with the ppl that spend REAL money or just spend more in the game... stick with a guild be active do your thing and the rest will come.
@@andreasglen2480 it's more than that. since the top player will always be on the top guild, it gives them the power to deny certain secret dungeon bosses like junobote even at "peace" by just summoning eclipse and wiping the rest of the players there. in my server the top 3 guilds have allied so now they have been dominating and denying regular players those content. really the people who don't see this as a problem are of course the ones in the top guilds. guilds should not be able dictate and limit what content should be available to other players.
The game revolves around guilds, so being part of a top performing guild with a good alliance is very important. NOTE: A healthy server will have 2 alliances that are fighting each other. A good server will have 3 or more that contest conflict bosses. What does that mean? 2 alliances is 8 guild slots total, 480 people that are able to play competitively. 3 alliances or more means more guild slots meaning more people able to contest. If you are not in a server with this setup, sad to say you are in a freefarm server with guilds waiting for server merge to happen eventually. -Resolution- AP server is a good example. Most of these 'strong' guilds are mostly just people that show up for PvP and able to get on comms. Being able to muster 50+ people for conflict bosses is what you need to strive for as this is the norm for the top guilds. Composition, gear, skill doesn't really matter until you can get almost all of your guild members to show up. Once your guild can do that then it's about knowing which people to remove, which people you can convince to change weapons, guild management basically - not caring about composition is not a good mindset to have, you will always be lacking healers / tanks otherwise even for the non-pvp content. The solution for your specific problem is to identify what kind of guild you are in first: Is PvP your main content or PvE? Also HyperBoost servers will help you remake your guild and also keep up with gear while retaining core members and getting new ones. ^^ You have to shift your focus and goals depending on your answer. - What I'm saying doesn't come from thin air, it's from experience on creating/recruiting/organizing/managing guilds in t&l, I'll continue writing an essay if you want to know more. ^^
Bro “peaceful” Juno event with one guild blocking the bridge to the entrance is cancer for the entire rest of the server devs should label the event as PvP or change the entrance. Feels like it directly causes people to rage and just straight up quit the game
Zerging is definitely an issue and I think alliances are way too big. The top 8 guilds being 2 opposing alliances leave no room for grassroots opposition. But realistically on many EU servers we're seeing unofficial alliances of 8 guilds and even 16 guilds. Alliances should definitely only be between 2 guilds. There needs to be some incentive or punishment for making unofficial alliances because it's impossible to even attempt to build opposition once these huge alliances have gotten established.
😂 the gap between top guild and lesser is gonna be ridiculous. It's so terrible. The devs basically made the perfect environment for whales to fight it out to no end. There's absolutely no point if you don't want to swipe.
I enjoyed the diverse combat and didnt actually like my Sword wand class well until I experimented enough to find all the synergy for the build. With how tanky the class was, I knew I could solo tank anything that didnt burst me down so I opted for fighting as many enemy as possible and littling all of their health over a large time. I was soloing up to 14 mobs in the shadowcrypt while maintaining my mana above 70% at all times. I quit the game, though, after finding out my half traited blue gear would get 2 shotted by any maxed out purple...also I dont find it convincing that a game is healthy in pvp if you need 800 players to overthrow an alliance's stronghold. At that point, I think the devs failed somewhere.
Yo bro. Thats story is lit af. And it makes want to play more and put more effort jnto the game. Damn i also want that experience too, forming guild alliances too fight some toxic guilds. Then some alliance betraying the other alliance. Some game of thrones shit...hahaha
The funny part of this whole conversation is the ''Asmon is going to shit on this'' while he didn't even consider the game which is crazy he literally played it on launch and never touched it again. Usually he like to go and demonstrate the whole P2W of these mmos by swiping like a madman and make people but he literally didn't consider T&L at all. For the Issue regarding servers being dominated by one alliance, my very 1st step to do is to completely remove alliances, its just not a fun mechanic cause its not fun or fair to have a guild who's trying to contest we whatever players they have and its a guild of less than 70 people and they end up facing an alliance of 140 people and thats the least they can face, so limiting guilds to 70 players imo is the right call cause lets be honest WoW is the biggest mmo in the market for 20 years now and people still struggle to form 20 man raids so after the honey moon phase ends in T&L guilds will start dropping players faster than ever then the biggest guilds who are really hardcore try hards won't have any competition. If It was up to me I'll probably remove alliances and even drop the guilds to 50 players instead of 70
i understand if ppl hear p2w and dont try the game but i really dont understand ppl who PRETEND to play the game and make up fake shts just to make sure ppl hate this game. its like their life depends on it
@fat_kunt the game definitely has its problems, the toland update will come with lots of new contents but yeah it still has the same problem. I just wish they release a big pve content rather than coop dungeons they have atm. it just feels too token compared to raid in other mmos
I wish i could remove the visual effect from astral vision and use astral+num1 instead of tab, that way it will work more like lineage 2 "next target" witch i loved.
As someone who works and only has a few hours to play a night, between PvP events and updates, I almost lose about half of my week of playtime to things outside of my control. If it's night time, guess I'm not going to do my open world dungeons runs tonight. Quests? Same issue. This is an issue that will ruin the player base. Don't get me wrong, I like PvP, but how do you get to be able to compete with the no lifers who had 25/hrs a day to get to the end. Making a game time > skill isn't a good strategy. Also, anyone saying 'just swipe'. Who do you think you are paying to get the gear? The people you are trying to compete with.
Not to mention that prices is incredible inflated to the point that it's insanity. $100 is 6k lucent and gear selling for 4k, 8k, 9k even 10k+ that's not normal...
@@mrfish229yes in the early access servers the prices are 3x the actual launch. I bought early access and use it as lucent farm cause the prices. It would be completely idiotic to try to progress with those inflated prices.
MMO’s have always been for targeting the players with all day to play everyday . Matter of fact. Throne is the MMO I’ve known to be more forgiving towards busy « regular » people . They built a model where in 2 hours you do everything you need in a day to keep progressing after that it’s a « waste of time » and make the super sweats not get so far ahead that they’re untouchable. The game tells you after like 2 hours to remember it’s healthy to take breaks from playing. The devs want you to come back every day , not play all day.
Streaming MMO content almost every day @ twitch.tv/kanonxo - LIVE NOW!!
Appreciate you having me on dude, was a fun chat, legit could have continued for another hour, tbh I was kinda nervous coming on since I haven't been on a livestream or a podcast for years but you're a great host and are easy to talk to, hope you can get Asmongold on for a chat at some point.
Been following you for years. Really happy to see you on live stream
You are the MMO goat bro !
Big Damage on my ping :) the legend.
Looking for the Josh Strife Hayes collab, too!
I genuinely do not understand the amount of vitriol around this game. I don't like or play P2W games typically, but the warframe approach they take with this game's premium currency is HUGE, and I make more lucent in the game than I could ever afford to buy. I'm not aiming to be #1 on the server, and frankly most of the people this upset by the monetization would never be that either. The game is just legitimately fun to play.
its comments from people who actually never tried the game and just hear p2w and shutdown. unfortunate really
Most people just hold onto these words and scream them out of the top of their lungs while sperging out at people who enjoy the game.
What these people don't understand is that the game isn't p2w in the traditional sense, where you buy a pack or gear directly from the premium store, but you actually purchase currency that will be circulating in the economy, it doesn't just disappear, and thanks to the people purchasing this currency I have been able to keep on gearing my character and still have around 10k lucent at all times, just by selling stuff I don't need.
Except the over reliance on being in the largest alliance in the server else you cant do anything. Get a rare drop? Sucks for you, straight into the guild AH. The game is predatory, people are still in the honeymoon phase.
@@Dx_Ach youre fun to be around
@@Dx_Ach You are simply misunderstanding. Not being part of a top guild on your server literally only affects like 1% of the entirety of the game. If you are being blocked from a boss, you simply play the peace version of that boss. Guild taking your loot? That's an OPTION, if you join a guild that does this, you are free to leave my guy. This problem you're describing IS a problem, but it is literally so small you shouldnt even be worried about it.
At this point kanon looks like a throne and liberty poster.
A lil sad. He needs this to work because it's his job. No new MMO's till archaege Chronicles. Maybe he can do MH wilds for a lil idk
@@higguma What's sad about it, Kanon loves the game.
😂😂😂
The worst thing about this game for me is the targeting especially on controller omg I lose so many fights cause of the targeting
worst thing for me is the animation locks on some of the skills
Yup the targetting on controller is reqlly buggie. Sometimes it locks your screen when ppl go invis lol
Its bad because U have bad settings on Ur controller
worst thing is the game.. KR game its dead in under 1 year have fun nerds
@@jjswigger8591what's a good game? I'm down to play something else if its good.
Grapple is extremely scuffed even without any other interactables nearby. For example Temple of Slaughter. The Piton simply doesn't work half the time for the whole of Europe.
dude u and lazy peon have such good chemistry man thank you knanon
We already have a "Marking System" (Heart, Arrow, Shield etc.) in the game, it would be good to expand it to include the possibility of marking opponents mobs/players (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) it would be helpful both in PvE and PvP. PvE when we have a large group of mobs, so that the Team Leader (Tank) could indicate in what order we kill the monsters, in PvP, it would be useful to target important targets.
The alliance he is talking about is mega Chinese alliance that transferred over and basically joined a top alliance in our server.
Just wanted to say you’re both great content creators! Keep it up 💪
I'm all for increasing guild sizes a little and removing allainces. Add a guild sign-up for gvg content while keeping it 70v70
Having do small guides is horrible. I was kick because I didn't play in 2 days
love these two, great content creators promoting and supporting each other this is what the community is about
It's a blessing the Throne community has Kanon.
No its not...
@@lincolnjohnson4428 Why?
@@3in24 I mean, what he puts on the videos and how he is in game it totally different.
He has a guild that has been caught scripting and even their guild leader macro cheats.
He blocks bosses with eclipse eventhough he came on and says he doesnt.
His guild moves servers to avoid epherium and only lets whales/scripters in and griefs low level players. (Shroud/Steptaru for example).
Ask anyone on our server, they are hated... even by guilds that challenge them for what they stand for.
its sad.
@@lincolnjohnson4428 sounds pretty based to me, crying about eclipse in a game like throne is wild. Also id like to see the videos of them being caught. Source?!
@3in24 you would be an idiot to think 90% of the population don't use bots and hacks. There is a reason this game is already dead.
@34:10 The fact we think about being sold solutions as an "OK" format to the hardcore P2W is the glaring issue we live in with MMOs today. we're so kicked down and beaten into that submissive p2w aspect that we don't truly fathom how insane it is. I'm not saying peon is wrong and frankly he's saying what I was thinking myself but something needs to be done about it. Every MMO that has this method isn't getting the money we spend back into it, it's going into pockets of grinchs that have never played games in their lives.
I don't think we will see the full contingency plans they have in place for TnL until it dips 10x fold. Thats when the quick insurgence of these P2W/PFC accessories and mechanics come into play. New World being that stark example of this with it's gearsets, and to a lesser degree ESO's pet vendors / QoL skill instant-use scrolls.
In Poland for this money, you would be paying for own apartment, and buying it after 10years with this amount of money. Or just renting like 150m flat in BIGGEST cities
floor 19 in secret dungeon for me i cant even even jump on the first platforms because my character gets stuck in a falling animation for over 2mins then i suddenly die
Did he say 400 sqft penthouse? That can't be right. 😂 I love Peon, well done.
I never heard of you before throne and liberty my dude.
But you are such an amazing personality to watch during guides, discussions and other content, you would kick ass covering anything you get your hands on.
just don’t go to conflict bosses. if you’re not in a big guild, it’s not for you. too bad. do a peace boss
iv never won a conflict
i stay out
No one can beat Credit Card players. That's the reality. In my server they just zerg any conflict event. 3 Guild alliances.
Players like Kanon cannot/will not experience that because he's a whale and plays 24/7. I just skip any conflict events.
Remember when we just bought games and played them, and any kind of pay to win was bad? Now we are like "I think its okay if they sell us an equipment slot for $10 as long as it is a one-time purchase" like how ridiculous is this? The Overton window forever marches forward to the beat of the company's investors.
Kanon you're now my favourite interviewer on RUclips.
Love how you handle the conversation
No fucking way my 2 fav MMO youtubers are collabing. What a time to be alive
Another issue that I feel isn't discussed enough is that whenever PvE players complain about the lack of meaningful, skill-expressive PvE content, many people dismiss them by saying that this is a PvP-focused game. They suggest that if players aren’t willing to put in the effort to become PvP-ready-joining high-ranking guilds and committing to significant time investment and/or spending money-this game isn't for them. Honestly, fair enough (though not really, because the game isn’t sustainable without PvE players and the casual crowd. After all, the dominance hierarchy that allows top guilds to exist necessitates the existence of casual players from a numbers perspective).
However, when the 'bread and butter' of the game-boonstones, conflict bosses, sieges-plays out at anywhere from 15-25 FPS (not even including console players who inevitably get worse frames) for the average PC player, many people will be turned off. For reference, I have an X3D chip, 32 GB of RAM, and a 7800XT-not an amazing build, but certainly capable-and I imagine others have it much worse. Don't get me wrong, the game is incredibly well-optimized given how seamless and 'one-world' it feels when exploring, but when you center your game's primary content around gameplay that most players can only experience at a fraction of the frames their PCs can push in most modern titles, you have a problem.
That is just one of less-talked-about factors out of many that will inevitably cause this game to become a niche title, as Kanon suggested in the video. The honeymoon phase, driven by an explosive population of players exploring and engaging in this 'one-world' experience, will eventually die down, particularly for casual and PvE players. When that happens, the foundation that enables GvG content to flourish will crumble all the same. I really hope this game sticks around for a while, even as a niche title, because it's still a very cool concept that deserves its flowers. However, unless the devs shift gears and develop a better incentive structure that is conducive to the PvE experience-which seems unlikely given how adamant they are about their vision-the game will fail to generate the lasting appeal needed to be known as a great MMO comparable to some of the powerhouses in the genre. And that's fine, but it will genuinely feel like a lost opportunity that could have been used to create some truly special.
nice video thanks guys love you both!
Fun to see content with you and Peon!
wow this was so chill, I'm doing a contract while listening to this I don't felt like a hour already gone lol, I want more of this XD
+1 on the upcoming content for Throne. Much needed.
this lazypeon dude has the best soothing voice of youtube
Nice Collab!
Omg!!
Lazy... so happy to see you doing so well!!
Honestly, you guys talking about the big moment memories on the server had me craving a bit of EVE Online, because even if space pew pew isn't your thing, there is no denying the developers have struck an incredible balance to allow sandbox moments like that. I highly recommend checking out some highlights, as the history of EVE is kinda insane, with the biggest of alliances being taken out by spies and subversion, or just outright tactics, so it's something T&L could look at and take some inspiration from.
40:00 ironically this is what happened in ArcheAge. It got to a point where one faction was dominating so hard that they would often give content to the opposite factions to try make the server better.
Good video! You guys are both great content creators! TY Kanon,
I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation!
Just curious why is it you don’t touch WoW Kanon ? I recently started during dragon flight and found it fun. Haven’t dived deep into the endgame raids yet though. So was just genuinely curious? Wondering if something happens later on I might not care for.
46:00 something I feel could solve some of the one group serve take over.. have it to where when an alliance/s show up, non guild players (or some version of this) can join a certain amount to the smaller side to temporarily aid them
The option to clear target when clicking on the ground and it doesn't work for friendly targets is so weird. If you play a class which also has healing as wand for instance, you become crazy
They could lock out any extra guild mates past 36 people in one event. Have the barrier come up like they do when you die after a world boss. You can bring 70 people, but only 36 at a time can participate?
I'm a 30s boomer. Nobody I know has time for Twitch. On demand RUclips videos you can watch whenever you want is what Peon accels at.
"excels"
@@mercsterno peon go fast brrr
30’s and boomer makes no sense
@@Dutchy_87it’s a common term on the internet for older millennials.
@@mercsterno he accels he pumps them out fast.
Fresh content nice ❤
My 2 fav content creators.
Always great content, brother. 💪
Really enjoyed this video/ podcast.
An easy 1h listen. I wanted more ^^;, Gj both of you :)
Oh man, someone mentioned cryy in the chat, and I haven't seen a video from him in sooooo long. Now I have to look him up.
Edit: i did, and he doesn't post anymore, really, but I was subscribed still. Sad 😢
Feedback Kanon if you have a guest on the show. Let the man talk.
The way to potentially fix the PvP open world is to remove alliances or make it to where the the top 10 or 20 guilds are not allowed to alliance each other.
Ours top 10 companies are all allied up so it's basically impossible to take conflict bosses.
Alliances need to go 100% all this GVG talk but they're standing there with 280 people. L o l
@@Bladedanced at most 1 alliance but restrict it so the top guilds can’t ally each other to force good PvP matches
Removing alliances won't solve anything because they will just create sister guilds and still be allies under the table, just not on paper. It can be an inconvenient but well organized groups can still take advantage of this.
The issue is the advantage the alliances give and the WHY they would get one. That's what needs to be targeted and a lot boils down to lucent which will never ever be removed.
I saw that castle fight vid. It was a hell of a fight
i agree. old school runescape is such an insanely good game. especially ironman mode. no other game has as much to do and such a strong and clear progression in everything you do. some people are turned off by the graphics but never judge a book by its cover.
First thing they should fix is Junobote, the peace Junobote is dominated by massive alliances when they used the PVP skill to force PVP in Sanctum and gatekeep all the other players.
f2p 2712 finished codex and with battle pass and level pass 10/10
i hated this game on the 2nd week of playing because i was aloser and did not understand anything
YES, once you understand the system, specifically the trait farming system, the game really feels good.
I can confirm 2700 cp (full blues) is enough to kill whales if you are SnS / GS
@@knowlen yea im full purple with my set just need to unlock some traits and upgrade them im doing a different way of gearing ik i could do the blue method but this way makes me fell good
@@knowlenunderrated comment.
2700 is nothing bro. CP points are nothing. traits are everything=P2W. traits are the gear not your Combat Power Points... People stop listening to people like this guy above.... your CP points have nothing to do with what you are going to do. You can have 3300 CP points and you wont hit anything if they are traited against you. stop misleading people who havent hit 50 to bring your player base up
LazyPeon got life figured out.
GS DAG im currently 3600 loving the game and this content is a must for me
Cool interview, thanks for sharing :)
Nice video to listen to while playing throne lol, glad you guys discussed the issue of a zerg "mollywhopping" everyone as you put it, even if there weren't any silver bullet solutions. I'm curious if devs are brainstorming about it
2993 CP and my weapons are full on traits. I didn't pay for anything with real money. The P2W is really not that bad!
best pod EVER
I didn't know much about LazyPeon and I was a bit pulled off watching more of his content after his initial TnL review, but that podcast really shown me that I had it wrong about the guy. I actually think his take on the Castle Siege and the war "drama" was on spot. It really spices up the game and it's one of the reason I'm playing TnL.
It's amasing how your opinions change when you get paid huh.
Lazy peon is a liar. I am going to hold you accountable for saying this respects your time for the next 5 years. People don't forget bucko
Great video, peons a king. (Also on Stormbringer in NSFW guild)
WHATAT is coming shortly but the zerg in question is WD they came with 4 guilds and are just mass zerging every event, their cores pretty decent but the other 3 guilds are just straight cannon fodder.
if you target like its a action combat game its far better outside of large scale which is just take who you can get anyways
The one guild dominating a server is definitely a valid concern. Maybe I got a lucky server, but dozens of guilds are revolting against the top 2 guilds and forming teams to go kill them in every conflict world boss. They may be more powerful but when you outnumber them 3 to 1 its so funny
Sounds like a good time. That's how it should be though.
I can see the game but doing well when i see videos of TL in you tube only have like 400 views :( very very low for a brand new game
The way to fix zergs is get rid of alliances, friendlies, hostiles increase guild size to 100...then it's everyone's guild for themselves.
Nice stream you too. After they made New World a Cheap-China-Plastic-Toy (thats how i feel like when i play it after Aeternum and i have 1600 hours.) i only play T&L too.
hey kanon can you do a build just with the coop dung gears? GS/DAGGER
playing on ps5 the targeting is awful none of the filters work in PVP. I still target mobs even with the setting off for PVP its annoying.
I swear Peon reminds me of some actor or athlete. I can't pinpoint who it is though.
Update. I figured it out. His mannerisms are pretty close to Peter Franzén.
lineage 2 c4/c5 is the best mmo ever made
Yeah. The fact that in T&L everything is targetable texture(and from different sides) is a problem. I had so many times I launched my Flash Wave into a fkin wall, rather than desperate party in front of me :D
But what spins me out the most is trying to target something out of a group of targets or, what Peon said, close range tab targeting.
I wish there was a setting to completely disable camera rotation with left mouse button.
Imo T&L is more pay-to-be-first than pay-to-win, bcs everything can be achieved in game. It's just faster with money.
What they did with a siege and hiding names and everything of players it actually made it even more problematic :D
No one knew who is who, so attackers couldn't really organise above alliances, while defenders didn't have that problem because defending alliance sit inside of a castle and their "satellites" were running around and fighting everyone outside :D In result the deal we had on my serv, to take out dominating alliance, failed, because we couldn't uphold the decision not to attack each other, because no one knew who is who and very quickly people gave up on idea bcs they were constantly being attacked by someone else in red.
I would argue that T&L gives tools to do daily chores pretty quickly, but definitely not 1 hour :P, but it all depends a lot on with whom you're making your chores.
Doing dungeons can take 1 hour or 5 hours, especially now there are 2star dungs worldwide. Once I spent 3 hours doing Island of Terror, over 30 people got in and left before eventually people came with whom I was able to finally end this boss.
I would say the fastest one could do everything that is there daily I think you need like 2 hours minimum. 2star 2 times, 1star 3 times, 10 contracts, spending abyssal tokens and doing abyssal quests. Add to it guild bosses, world bosses, region events, arena, some time for upgrading/enchanting and it kinda turns into 3 hours.
open world bosses loot needs to be for everyone no just who does more dps ...they need to fix that solo players getting screw
We found him everyone
Nice to hear that they enjoy the pvp and guild mechanics, but am I the only one that stayed for the world building and voiced story XD ?!
Im 50/50 here for the world they built and narration and the Guilds focused content.
Most beautiful game of the year I’ve played (basic like starbucks, still super charming )
A good guild makes your experience a thousand times more fun and rewarding.
A surprise to be sure but a welcome one
Actually one of the best gaming related podcasts I’ve ever heard
I think the top guilds/alliances ruining the PVP experience is extremely hard to fix. The problem is, it is a complete vicious cycle. All the strongest players are naturally going to gravitate towards the top guilds. The top guilds are then going to always have higher active player count, since there is a huge demand to join them. The smaller guilds are going to lose every single battle, and get curb-stomped at every conflict boss. People are going to leave the weaker guilds to join the winning guilds. The weaker guilds can never recruit enough people to ever challenge the strongest guilds, since there is no immediate value proposition to joining a weaker guild to hopefully one day become a stronger guild.
I genuinely don't know what the solution could be for this. I just know that it is not fun. The guild I am in can get maybe 55 or 60 players online at a time for the big battles, but we can only get 15 or 20 during the typical conflict boss. The top alliance on my server is 3 full 70 person guilds, they bring around 200 people to every single boss fight, and they have perfect weapon distribution for the boonstone and riftstone battles. They are completely unbeatable unless we literally kick the people that we are playing the game with to get better combinations of weapons for a deliberate weapon distribution, and somehow always have 70 people online. It is already almost impossible to get 70 consistently active 2800 CS players in the first place. It is just almost impossible to have a personable guild with people you like playing the game with, while simultaneously having a super strong soul-less meta guild of 70 unemployed people.
and what did you say now? nothing new... the people out in the world are like that. you leave from a job that doesnt pay you enough (so you leave from a guild that doesnt offer you a lot of content to go to higher tier guild with more content). And thats why the game has PEACE world bosses and guild bosses for the players to gear up and then compete with the ppl that spend REAL money or just spend more in the game... stick with a guild be active do your thing and the rest will come.
@@andreasglen2480 it's more than that. since the top player will always be on the top guild, it gives them the power to deny certain secret dungeon bosses like junobote even at "peace" by just summoning eclipse and wiping the rest of the players there. in my server the top 3 guilds have allied so now they have been dominating and denying regular players those content. really the people who don't see this as a problem are of course the ones in the top guilds. guilds should not be able dictate and limit what content should be available to other players.
Stop crying lol
@@andreasglen2480 if you are not a top guild you cannot contest even peace Junobote
The game revolves around guilds, so being part of a top performing guild with a good alliance is very important.
NOTE: A healthy server will have 2 alliances that are fighting each other. A good server will have 3 or more that contest conflict bosses.
What does that mean? 2 alliances is 8 guild slots total, 480 people that are able to play competitively. 3 alliances or more means
more guild slots meaning more people able to contest. If you are not in a server with this setup, sad to say you are in a freefarm
server with guilds waiting for server merge to happen eventually. -Resolution- AP server is a good example.
Most of these 'strong' guilds are mostly just people that show up for PvP and able to get on comms. Being able to muster 50+ people for conflict bosses is what you need to strive for as this is the norm for the top guilds. Composition, gear, skill doesn't really matter until you can get almost all of your guild members to show up. Once your guild can do that then it's about knowing which people to remove, which people you can convince to change weapons, guild management basically - not caring about composition is not a good mindset to have, you will always be lacking healers / tanks otherwise even for the non-pvp content.
The solution for your specific problem is to identify what kind of guild you are in first: Is PvP your main content or PvE? Also HyperBoost servers will help you remake your guild and also keep up with gear while retaining core members and getting new ones. ^^
You have to shift your focus and goals depending on your answer.
- What I'm saying doesn't come from thin air, it's from experience on creating/recruiting/organizing/managing guilds in t&l, I'll continue writing an essay if you want to know more. ^^
Peon is the GOAT
The bot problem is out of control
With world boss PvP maybe do portals like the peacefull ones and who wants to compete go in to the portals :)
Gw2 did amazing buying crystal with gold and back
Lazy the MMO legend love his honest Reviews
Bro “peaceful” Juno event with one guild blocking the bridge to the entrance is cancer for the entire rest of the server
devs should label the event as PvP or change the entrance.
Feels like it directly causes people to rage and just straight up quit the game
Zerging is definitely an issue and I think alliances are way too big. The top 8 guilds being 2 opposing alliances leave no room for grassroots opposition. But realistically on many EU servers we're seeing unofficial alliances of 8 guilds and even 16 guilds. Alliances should definitely only be between 2 guilds. There needs to be some incentive or punishment for making unofficial alliances because it's impossible to even attempt to build opposition once these huge alliances have gotten established.
wait till you find out that the top guilds can do saurodoma chest event and get 10+ dungeon runs from chests every night.
😂 the gap between top guild and lesser is gonna be ridiculous. It's so terrible. The devs basically made the perfect environment for whales to fight it out to no end. There's absolutely no point if you don't want to swipe.
I enjoyed the diverse combat and didnt actually like my Sword wand class well until I experimented enough to find all the synergy for the build. With how tanky the class was, I knew I could solo tank anything that didnt burst me down so I opted for fighting as many enemy as possible and littling all of their health over a large time. I was soloing up to 14 mobs in the shadowcrypt while maintaining my mana above 70% at all times. I quit the game, though, after finding out my half traited blue gear would get 2 shotted by any maxed out purple...also I dont find it convincing that a game is healthy in pvp if you need 800 players to overthrow an alliance's stronghold. At that point, I think the devs failed somewhere.
Yo bro. Thats story is lit af. And it makes want to play more and put more effort jnto the game. Damn i also want that experience too, forming guild alliances too fight some toxic guilds. Then some alliance betraying the other alliance. Some game of thrones shit...hahaha
Thelazypeon used to be a good content creator but for some time now i cant take anything he says seriously.
Peon should do a video on the process of moving to Thailand, what websites are legit, how to find a place, etc.
nice!!
Does Dev look at these feedback? Is gold they need to pay attention to these guys
How’s the botting issue currently?
make the meta guild public enemy #1 and everyone else is aligned together.
The funny part of this whole conversation is the ''Asmon is going to shit on this'' while he didn't even consider the game which is crazy he literally played it on launch and never touched it again. Usually he like to go and demonstrate the whole P2W of these mmos by swiping like a madman and make people but he literally didn't consider T&L at all.
For the Issue regarding servers being dominated by one alliance, my very 1st step to do is to completely remove alliances, its just not a fun mechanic cause its not fun or fair to have a guild who's trying to contest we whatever players they have and its a guild of less than 70 people and they end up facing an alliance of 140 people and thats the least they can face, so limiting guilds to 70 players imo is the right call cause lets be honest WoW is the biggest mmo in the market for 20 years now and people still struggle to form 20 man raids so after the honey moon phase ends in T&L guilds will start dropping players faster than ever then the biggest guilds who are really hardcore try hards won't have any competition. If It was up to me I'll probably remove alliances and even drop the guilds to 50 players instead of 70
It is not hard to see this is a try-hard moblie zerg game. Asmon is running a business, he knows his audience doesn't want to watch this garbage.
Big collab
I target from Astral Vision in large scale or if healing
Did tanks and liberty transfer?
xeroth
I actually just get my lucents from items I farm. So no need to swipe. you just have to have that true gamer blood. LOL
Pretty cool podcast
i understand if ppl hear p2w and dont try the game but i really dont understand ppl who PRETEND to play the game and make up fake shts just to make sure ppl hate this game. its like their life depends on it
i have 200 hrs in game. game is shit, im gna quit soon once they release the tier 2. game is shit
they just need to hire peon to fix this game.
@fat_kunt the game definitely has its problems, the toland update will come with lots of new contents but yeah it still has the same problem. I just wish they release a big pve content rather than coop dungeons they have atm. it just feels too token compared to raid in other mmos
Plenty of people have put in enough time to see how trash this game is.
I wish i could remove the visual effect from astral vision and use astral+num1 instead of tab, that way it will work more like lineage 2 "next target" witch i loved.
As someone who works and only has a few hours to play a night, between PvP events and updates, I almost lose about half of my week of playtime to things outside of my control. If it's night time, guess I'm not going to do my open world dungeons runs tonight. Quests? Same issue. This is an issue that will ruin the player base. Don't get me wrong, I like PvP, but how do you get to be able to compete with the no lifers who had 25/hrs a day to get to the end. Making a game time > skill isn't a good strategy. Also, anyone saying 'just swipe'. Who do you think you are paying to get the gear? The people you are trying to compete with.
Not to mention that prices is incredible inflated to the point that it's insanity. $100 is 6k lucent and gear selling for 4k, 8k, 9k even 10k+ that's not normal...
It's an MMO , time = power. GO play League.... or call of duty
You don’t know what an mmorpg is do you?
@@mrfish229yes in the early access servers the prices are 3x the actual launch. I bought early access and use it as lucent farm cause the prices. It would be completely idiotic to try to progress with those inflated prices.
MMO’s have always been for targeting the players with all day to play everyday .
Matter of fact. Throne is the MMO I’ve known to be more forgiving towards busy « regular » people . They built a model where in 2 hours you do everything you need in a day to keep progressing after that it’s a « waste of time » and make the super sweats not get so far ahead that they’re untouchable.
The game tells you after like 2 hours to remember it’s healthy to take breaks from playing. The devs want you to come back every day , not play all day.