Thanks very much Alex, your feedback is appreciated! There is some other turbine stuff on my channel if you're interested in this sort of thing. All the best :)
@@irudayaraj7030 Well this is a home-made setup, why not source some parts and make something similar? There is really no clever engineering here, it's all very crude. Or if it's not for you, you can buy ready-made turbines online, with everything included. I've actually got a 100w Turgo rig that's a ready-made commercial product, coincidently made in India, but I've never actually used it or even tried it. I'll do a video on it when I do!
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles dear brother, in my place I unable to get this. But this will be very much useful and very badly needed our place. I am looking for your support.
Great project and as long as you've got constant water it will have no problem keeping your batteries charged. Maybe a few tweaks needed for max potential but great design.
Thanks David, I appreciate your comments. Yes the water is constant, it won't ever stop or reduce. I've not been back to it in nearly a month, I'm sure it'll still be spinning away alright though. I've bought a better wheel with more cups from a helpful local chap, might see if I can swap that on, should give a few more watts.
Ok the second part of your video was awesome down in the mine. 35 watts over 24 hours is 840 watts. My 120 ah deep cycle batteries only supply 720 usable watts, that's discharging then to 50%. I think you did a fantastic job and just think with a bit of tweaking you can easily double that. Good job mate.
Thank you very much Solrac. yes it makes 840w/h per day, or 0.84 KW/h per day. So that's a couple of days to fully recharge the two gel 110AH batteries that it's connected to via a charge controller. And this works great for me because I only generally work in that area of the mine about once a week, so when I'm there I've got plenty of power available and waiting for use (lighting/boiling a kettle/charging drill batteries etc). Then when I come back a week later, the batteries are full again. So it's fine for my needs really, even if I could double the power output there wouldn't be any practical gain for me, unless I end up working there a lot more. But it's fun to play about with these things, and I have some more ideas!
In times gone by from our grandparents people used to power water motors to drive sewing machines and other machinery using just mains water and something similar to a Pelton wheel turbine. This practice has long gone with the advent of modern electric motors but the notion of me generating electricity, even a relatively small amount using something I've already paid for makes a lot of sense. I don't know about you but I'm up in Scotland and we don't get our water usage metered it's just part of your council tax as a yearly fixed sum. So apart from people shouting about wasting water, which could be stored and used to water the garden or growing vegetables, flush toilets, fill baths etc. I have actually already paid for it so why not.
Hello Techstuff and thanks for writing. I know the kind of water motor that you mean and actually have one (from 1905 I think?) installed in the same mine, there is a video about it on my channel. In regards using the mains water for generating electricity, if you've got good mains pressure and good flow, then yes you would be able to make perhaps 50 watts or more from it. Whether that's legal or not I couldn't advise you. Reminds me of a friend years ago who managed to draw a constant 15 watts from his defunct ISDN telephone line.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles thanks I'll check out that video. I have seen a video on youtube of someone tapping into a phone line and It was enough to charge a phone. Keep up the good videos mate, the more we learn the better we become.
Nicely done as far as the mechanical aspects of your setup, you need an MPPT controller on the output of the alternator to optimize the current/voltage output. You can think of it as a variable matching transformer to couple the supply to the load at the operating point where the power output is maximized. Julian Ilett has a good series on RUclips about the theory of operation of MPPT controllers. On edit: An MPPT controller would let you easily experiment with the nozzle size to trade off pressure vs flow rate for the maximum possible mechanical power output from your turbine. A smaller nozzle may well allow you to create more power by minimizing friction losses in your very long feed pipe. You have a lathe evidently so making inserts for your nozzle shouldn't be particularly difficult.
Thank you so much Giles for your thoughtful and helpful comments. Now that it's charging a bank of leisure batteries, it is going through an MPPT controller (a Schneider C40) which seems to work well. I did buy a smaller nozzle for it and it has increased the power a bit, but yes it would be worth me using my lathe to make a few different sizes to experiment. But to be honest I'm considering moving it "upstream" so it's not got the really long 300m horizontal length of thin pipe to go through, although I then need to get the electricity to transmit 300m back with minimal losses. So I'll have to transmit it at high voltage, but really I wanted to keep everything below 50v if possible.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Would you still rectify at the generator and then use a boost converter to transmit at high voltage DC (as otherwise you'd need a three phase transformer)? I think the cables and connectors that they use for solar arrays are pretty rugged and designed to be used in all weathers.
With the vertical head behind that water, getting a nozzle sized so that you maintain your static head is important. I mean, ideally, you'd flow the maximum water possible without losing head. But better to be a little too small than a little too big, as the pressure is key. Pressure is what gives you speed, and we all remember the equation for kinetic energy. Without knowing your final flow rate, it's all conjecture. But with that vertical head, more than 100W is very achievable and I'm 100% certain that your setup will get you there. Fine tuning is all it will take.
Hello Christian. Just wanting to thank you for your helpful and encouraging reply, I think you are totally right and that the jet size is too big. It's about 4mm at the moment, so I think it's loosing a lot of the pressure. I think I will fill the jet with molten tin or solder and then drill it to perhaps 3mm. Something else has dawned on me from the electrical side. I wonder if an MPPT charge controller might give a better result as the open voltage (35v) is quite a lot higher than the battery voltage (12v). My current controller is just a simple connect/disconnect type so it forces the turbine down to battery voltage. I will try it next time I am down there :)
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles MPPT won't change what the generator creates, but it will sure as hell give you more at the point of use. In this case, I'm guessing you'd more than double your real charge rate.
The friction through a 1" pipe 1Km long is the killer. There is no way around it, but to put a much larger pipe in, over that length. The smaller the diameter (pipe). The more friction is produced from the walls of the pipe by the speed of the water trying to go through the pipe. Try and reduce speed of water to 1.5 Litres per second which will reduce the friction through the pipe.
Thanks Bill. You're totally right that it's the pipe diameter that holds it back but the installation of a much larger pipe would be extremely expensive that far underground. It's not just the cost of the pipe, it's the cost of the workforce required to drag it down there and install it. And the route it takes is a bit torturous! But it doesn't need to make a lot, it just needs to keep some large lead acid batteries floating. A smaller jet does seem the way forward, I will experiment with a really fine one to see if it yields more watts.
Nice job if you choose to increase the pressure with a wider pipe you could try fire hose it’s pretty cheap but seems like a long way love the casing and base looks very neat 👍
Thanks for watching and your comments. Yeah layflat hose is a good way to do it but in this case I wanted to be able to bury the pipe so it's not visible in the ballast on the mine floor. I've got another location in the mine where the drop is about 100 feet, almost vertical, and enough water to keep a 4" pipe full. I think this would spin a turbine very well, I will be sure to do that when I can and I'll make a video!
Looks like the absence of the chain/sprocket reduction gearing sure made a difference between it and direct drive. I was also wondering if something happened to that drive on the old wheel and the chain popped if anything would've damaged the old rig when left to run wide open and freewheeling. I don't know a thing about this but maybe a very little common sense looking. More pressure/flow to make up the difference in gearing but doesn't look like a smaller nozzle will do it because the flow will be reduced and you have to have flow to build pressure and torque. I wish you well and you ought to be able to make a bearing set for the old girl with that lathe when the time is right. CHEERS!.
Judging from the flow rate under the ammo box, you need a much larger hose bringing in the water. There is a lot of turbulence and frictional loss from such a small pipe.
Thanks Oby-1. You are absolutely correct, a larger diameter pipe would make a massive improvement, this is only one inch (25mm) and it's 1/2 a KM long. Because of where it is though, and the difficulty of manually handling pipework though the mine, it had to be small. A two inch pipe would make more electricity but would have cost a huge amount more in labour costs. It's a trade off I was aware of at the time.
Nice build. if it works leave it alone. You could consider a short length of say 2-3 inch by 10 meters pipe , not familiar with your mine layout, but place the pipe vertically and feed the turbine next to it, if you do, try replacing the nozzle feed pipe arrangement for close to the same size as your penstock. The nozzle diameter should be at least a third the size of the pelton bucket, yours looks fine :)
Hi Miles, for sure, you love hydro turbine ! You should have more power from this setup. I don't know what is your water flow, I will said about 0,25 to 0,5 liters/seconde. With 6,5 Bar. If the all setup efficiency is 50% (pipe friction, nozle diameter) You could plan to produce +/- 80W. I run a small Pelton turbine at home, regarding the water flow (max 3 liters/second), 150 meters, 50mm diameter pipe, 64meters elevation (6,4 bar) , I can produce from 300 to 700W. I have a few video about it in RUclips
Bonjour Cristof! Merci for watching my video. I think you are quite right, I should expect a greater wattage from this setup. I am wondering if the wheel is too large diameter for the size of the flow, and is giving too slow RPM. I used a 200mm wheel, maybe a 120mm wheel would help. I do have a smaller wheel (and a smaller jet) and will see if that makes much difference. Merci for your help!
@@cristof48 Thank you Cristof! Yes, I do use a small 10 amp Schneider charge controller which has Mppt. It definitely squeezes a bit more out that just a direct connection. Also, I tried changing for a smaller nozzle today, it made it go much faster with no load, probably twice as fast, but when on load I think it gave about 20% more power. I think maybe my Pelton Wheel itself is not ideal, maybe not enough spoons. Lots of water still flies out in direct line having not given up its energy.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles I noticed the jet not aiming into the cupped area of the pelton wheel, maybe aim a little to the left or right into a cupped section...or replace with solid cups normally found on a pelton wheel
Fantastic video and extremely interesting doing this down a mine. The Pelton wheel needs two heads minimum from what I have read, some setups have upto five heads around the wheel to get the optical RPM, I was wondering if you built a water storage tank above the water turbine holds let’s say holds 1,000 litres, and a 15mm pipe coming out at the bottom to the nozzle, this would give you the pressure you need to run the turbine. The water in the tank will not drain fully as the water out of the nozzle would only despise out a tricycle for water compared to the mass of water in the tank and will have continuous water in from the stream to the tank. Also a valve in front of the nozzle would allow you to increase the pressure or tun off incase you need to top the water tank up.
Thanks Trevor for your comments and useful suggestions. I think what you're suggesting there is a kind of pressure reservoir? Which would certainly work but I think it would only provide a surge if the turbine is stop-started. Or I think anyway. It's a bit like the air receivers the miners used, basically the air pipe to the drill was extremely long and there was a big pressure drop to the drill, so they put a big steel high-pressure tank at the drill-end and it would fill up and pressurise, then provide a big surge of pressure to the drill when it was needed. But it required a stop-start use, it wouldn't have been effective at continuous duty. I think that's what you're suggesting, but not too sure. Thanks Trevor!
>The Pelton wheel needs two heads minimum I'm not sure why that would be necessary. >Also a valve in front of the nozzle would allow you to increase the pressure Pressure is a property of water head. A valve won't increase pressure unless the flow rate though the pipe is so high the water head drops.
Thanks for that Harry. I'd love to be able to do that, it would increase the power dramatically but I have to use what's already there. It would be an immense operation to change the pipe.
Have you got a mppt chargecontroller in there. That will get the max power point. Stop it from slowing down to much under load and also will convert the high voltage down and increase the amps increasing efficiency greatly if you have 95v open circuit
Hiya M J and thanks for the comments. Yes on the other end is an MPPT controller, and two Victron 110AH gel batteries. The MPPT controller does a great job, and it means that whenever I am working in that area of the mine (probably once a week) the batteries are full and just waiting. I can take up to 2KWh from them, then when I come back, they are full again.
Hi there George. You're totally right, I did actually swap out the old charge controller to an MPPT one and it made a big difference, as in nearly doubled the wattage. It's funny to hear it hunt around for the optimum output, the wheel is constantly changing speed but slowly.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Yes, it's really interesting! Mine starts off all voltage (drawing no current) and transitions to all current (so there's minimal voltage). I guess it internally tabulates that data and then goes back to the maximum power point where it then loosely follows the curve maxima as it moves. Clever stuff!
@@m1geo Yes I figured it would be something like that because when you first start it, it spends ages trying it at all speeds from full-whack to grinding to a halt, then goes back to somewhere in the middle where the watts were highest. But it doesn't just stay there, it tracks up and down a bit to hunt for any improvements if conditions change.
Thanks for watching and commenting Paddy. Yes I think you're right, a round case would be better, but the ammo box is cheap and easy to open and maintain and things. I actually visited this turbine today just to check on it. It's still going strong, 18 months in. Returning about 80 watts.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles 80 Watts Nice I have to start my project this summer Im jealous of all you guys on RUclips, getting power iv got one stream and a big river I'm gonna start with the stream so how I go I'm not that mechanicly minded so ill be copying all you tubers ides 🙏 It's gonna be fun My goal from the stream is in around 80 Watts and hour 10 months of the year in Ireland The big river has cubic meters of flow and a bit of down hill stretch...
Pelton wheels should not be boxed! Any interaction of the water with the wheel after the initial impact must be avoided! Since the exiting water goes in opposite direction than the jet, I would shoot jet upward from below so exiting water is down, aided by gravity. if water is fed horizontally, it should be below the axis of the wheel, not above. Getting the water OUT is harder then getting it IN.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Just so you understand how Pelton wheels work. The wheel's peripheral's speed is ideally exactly half the water-jet speed. The water hits the blade, does a 180 degree turn, and exits "completely stopped" (the wheel recovering all the kinetic energy of the water). In reality, the wheel must turn a little slower, because of friction, and the water must have some speed to exit, and it can't turn all of 180 degrees. Because it is exiting slow, there must be a lot of (sideways) room for the slow exit. This type of turbine can not have flooded exit.
Hi. Great video and design. I always wanted to build a hydraulic system, but I wish there are companies that sell the system altogether like the turbine, runner, generator, batteries, inverters etc. I want to build a hydraulic system back in Africa where we use 220V instead of 110V in North America. Do you think I can use hydro system to power appliances like AC, fridge, microwave i.e all the heavy loads or do you think I should use it for smaller loads? I have not experience connecting wires from the generator to the batteries. What should I be careful about, when it comes to wires? What kind of batteries should I buy? Would I need an inverter as well? Sorry about all these questions, but I am interested in your advice and starting a hydraulic system soon. Thank you for your help.
Hello Eugene and thanks for watching. Yes a hydro system will do all you want but if you do it as a Pelton like this one, you will need a high pressure water supply. If you live in a mountainous area with lots of water, great. If you live somewhere flat, a Pelton won't be any use at all. I would advise you to have the turbine charge a bank of large leisure batteries, then use the batteries to power a 220v inverter to give you your electrics for microwave and things. Wiring the turbine to the batteries is easy, you just need a wind-turbine charge controller (cheap on eBay) and that'll convert the three-phase from the turbine into charge for your battery. It will manage the charging for you, you just need to hook the three wires (in any order) from the turbine into the charge controller, then connect the charge controller to the batteries. There are lots of different batteries on the market, personally I really like the Victron Gel batteries, they are very good quality but they are expensive. This turbine charges two 130AH Victron batteries. I hope this is helpful to you!
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Right about the pelton being useless on the flat BUT an undershot wheel would work. Maybe an overshot wheel if fall is limited.
Good effort...need to double up the pipeline if you want more power. Do you still get slate and how come the mine isn't flooding most mine hydro's are used to pump a mine dry not fill it. :)
lol yes, well this turbine is positioned 1375 feet below the surface, but it's still above sea level (just) as the mine is in the mountains. The mine has a deep-drainage tunnel that runs to the outside world, far from this turbine but vertically only about 30 feet below this point. The deep tunnel sets the "free drainage horizon", meaning that no matter how much water you pour into the mine, it'll never flood above that horizon. However, there are many miles of flooded workings below that level, dropping down about another thousand vertical feet. That was always pumped out back when the mine was operational (as in extracting slate) but now it's just flooded and the water stays there. Would love to pump it out one day just for a look before it fills up again but it would be very expensive to do. And yes Welsh Slate is still extracted but it's only a fraction of the industry that it was, and what slate does come out is quarried from the surface now, no mines are working anymore. The reason for this is cost, operating a mine in the UK is very expensive and although there is plenty of slate here, and it really is extremely good quality, there is no way to compete with the likes of China. They can extract their slate much cheaper due to their low labour costs, taxes and legislative compliance. If you're building a housing estate somewhere then what you care about is price per ton, not where it has come from, and whether the roof lasts 100 years or 300 years is of no consequence on a house that you only guarantee for 10 years.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Now that would be fun and possibly a bit dangerous if things started to collapse. Count me in if you fancy pumping it out I've done a bit of caving in my time and its great fun. Guess your in Wales some where, I'm in Scotland. Good luck with your wee hydro. Cheers
@@martinfoster288 Yes it would be fun but seriously expensive. Would also require the appropriate licences for dewatering drowned workings, but that's unlikely to be an issue as slate-mine water is very clean (if it was a lead mine for example it would be a different story). Slate mines generally cope well with dewatering, I wouldn't expect much ground movement from pumping it out. Not that it'll ever happen unless I win the lottery...
That's a very good idea, there is a little socket for external power but I don't think I've got anything that will plug into it. I'll have a look about.
Awesome project! I was running the numbers for pressure loss and realized how little I know about this application...came out to a 90% loss @ 0,5 liter/s flow rate for the 25mm pipe alone - but that can't be even close, can it? Anyhow, my first thought was to put a tachometer on the tip of the blades and compare that to the velocity of the water jet.
Thank you for your comment :) To be honest I'm not sure how to calculate losses, I just know from some manual somewhere back in the day that the diameter of the feed pipe is extremely important, as is not having it too long on the horizontal. A 1km long pipe of 25mm diameter, even with a 65m drop, is not ideally suited for a turbine. But that's what is there so that's what it's working on, and replacing the whole pipe though the mine with say a 60mm would be extremely expensive due to the complex route. I couldn't give accurate figures on the slow-down under load but it seems to be a lot. I was slightly alarmed to find the open-circuit voltage over 95 VDC, but then connecting to the 12v batteries to charge them obviously it drops considerably down to 12-14 volts and the wheel grinds away slowly.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles gates.com has a "Fluid Flow Pressure Calculator" that I used, not metric format though. Looks like a lot of design went into the turbine, how do you verify the action of the wheel-materjet interface - a high speed camera?
Nice! Question: As an R&D Eng, I have to wonder why everyone, everyone, houses the turbine? The massive amount of back-splash in the housing must, must, reduce efficiency GREATLY.. Why not let the waste-water run straight off, and away? House the generator & electronics instead!! after all, these are what needs protecting, and the benefit to efficiency should be HUGE as well. If you're going to house the turbine the housing should have super smooth flow path, and eject the water immediately after the turbine, right? what am I missing?? These are all questions as I really, really, dont know.
Thanks for commenting Capthuffy. You are totally right in that if it was all totally open it would go faster. I've run other turbines without the housing and there is a difference in power to when you put the housing back on. Not a huge amount but it does make a difference yes. The problem with doing that here is that the turbine is located at the side of a tunnel in a mine, along which people pass regularly. They would get utterly soaked without the housing, as the water really would spray absolutely everywhere! And secondly, There would be a health&safety issue with people walking past a turbine spinning at high RPM. If they tripped and fell into it they would be seriously injured (not an impossible situation given all the water that would be spaying everywhere).
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Thank You. Excellent! I thought your response would have been to protect the turbine from damage: In my mind's eye: branches or rock fall from above.
I believe pelton wheels are different from and should never be called turbines since they operate at lower speeds and efficiencies . . . Peltons are more akin to water wheels as such . . . So it goes ! ! ! - Kurt Vonnegut - Slaughterhouse Five -
Thanks deshniq, yes I bet there is a perfect shape, probably round :) In fact no housing at all would be best but it would make a horrible mess I think.
Hiya Dana and thanks for the comments. Yes it would run on compressed air (or even steam), but there is no compressed air available. The mine did have a big air network about 100 years ago but it's long gone now and renewing it would cost more than my annual salary. But, there is some water available, hence going Hydro.
Hello David, thanks for watching. Actually I've been meaning to do an update video for this as it's been operational for some time now. I did a few tweaks actually and got it making about 85w in the end. It's been spinning non-stop ever since, still going absolutely fine today, and the plastic cups on the turbine are totally fine. The steel hub is a bit corroded but it doesn't matter, plenty of metal in it. The only trouble this turbine gave was my fault. I repositioned it a few months back but I didn't clock the fact that it was angled slightly so the alternator was lower than the turbine and I didn't notice but water constantly ran down the shaft and into the alternator bearings. Those bearings failed within a couple of weeks as a result of all the water pouring on them so I had to change them and reposition the turbine level again so the water doesn't run down into the alternator. It's been fine since. Thanks again, Miles
Um. So, that's an ebay link, not a link to the company that made your alternator. When the item sells the link no longer shows the item on ebay. Can you spell the name of the companay? Did you say "Ice Degrees?" Google didn't give me anything as a result.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles I really appreciate this video. It simplifies and explains everything. I found some other brands of three cycle magnetic alternators and want to try a perpetual motion generator. My generator requires 400 watts to run... so if the resulting trust has an output of more than 400watts, it will power itself and provide me with excess to store in a battery bank. *fingers crossed* I'm happy to share if it works but I"m stuck in a truck right now. Over the road 24/7 trucker. Driving local after September. Not gonna patent my idea and will share it openly if it works efficiently.
@@lotusconsultations9925 Thanks for your comments, it's can't be fun being stuck in a truck day after day. A perpetual motion generator would be a great way to charge a battery bank, I hope that works out for you. Very kind of you to share the design, I'm sure there will be a lot of keen interest in it. Thanks, Miles
hai esagerato mettendo un generatore cosi potente , la girante ideale ha 100 mm diametro idraulico e la saracinesca sulla condotta dovrebbe essere piu grande di 1 " ( internamente la sfera e piu picccola e fa turbolenze alla acqua ) buon lavoro.. e guarda i miei video
Hello Imran thanks for commenting. If you're looking for that Alternator specifically, they are available on eBay, just search for "IstaBreeze" and you'll see all their products including the alternators. I'm nothing to do with them at all, so cannot help you get one, but they do international delivery so I'm sure you'll have no problems. There are other comparable products available from other companies too, including converted car-alternators which are also very good.
Hello CG and thanks for your comments. Yes it could run on compressed air, but there is no compressed air available in the mine, just naturally falling water.
some info. 1) site analysis and Predicted potential energy, at the turbine runner. 2) MATCHING component spec's, to the energy Available at the site. i would guess that Neither has happened. at least, you realize that a major pressure falloff occurs. the (extreme) horizontal run and a very low flow rate equals Not much energy, at the turbine runner. conclusions: Estimate the amount of potential energy available; at a location where the horizontal run, of the water, is MUCH less. Match component Spec's to the SITE. and, run the wild AC from a pma, to wherever you want the power. plan-b: utilize a correctly designed, free-standing, waterwheel. cheers googletranslate (pabba - i don't think you made a mistake.)
Thank you so much for your comments David. You are right in that the components here have not been specifically matched to the water source, and the reason for that is economic. I have lots of bits hanging around, the alternator is off an old project, so is the Pelton. So it is a case of using what I have available. I'm sure a custom precision made machine to match that exact water source would yield the best possible result. Now I am considering moving the turbine further "upstream" to see if that helps, as you suggest. The very long pipe that supplies the water is totally level for the last 300m to the turbine, so if I move it to the other side of that 300m length , I expect it will be better because less friction? However, I then need to run 300m of three-core cable back to where the 12v power is needed and I assume I am going to get voltage drop doing that. Question is, which gives the most power at the end?
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles some info. it appears that the flow rate may be in the range of .3 liters per second; note that this is a M I N U T E amount of water. a lot of the energy from the effective head is lost, in the very very long horizontal run (of the water delivery system). if you did EVERYTHING else Right, you might be able to generate two-point-five watts DC, continuous. you have Nothing to lose and everything to gain, by running the wild AC from a pma; rather than, water. any kind of AC can be run, with minimal losses; in this case, there might be some small, measurable losses. in this case, cables can be, plain-ol', 16ga three-conductor wire. even though there is a significant amount of head, the very very low flow rate 'tells the tale'; in the math. which is: flow rate (in cu. Meters per second) x head (in meters) x gravity (9.81 mps/ps); multiply by 1000 to get watts. then, subtract system losses, to get estimated NET output. due to the very very low flow rate, this is an instance where the use of a high-speed hydroturbine is Not recommended. i have no interest in where you components come from.
Thank you David for your very helpful reply. That is a useful formula, thank you! I do not know the flow rate I have, but I am sure is it more than .3L/sec. I will attempt to establish it. It must be more because it is putting more than 3 amps continuously into the 12v battery, so that's around 40 watts roughly. I will move the turbine to the other end of the 300m pipe next time I'm there and report the difference in power, I am sure it will be higher there. I think the cable losses will still be significant though, a 16 gauge cable carrying 12v AC 3 phase over 300 meters is showing a 57% loss at just one amp current. If the voltage can be higher the losses will be less but as it's charging a 12v battery, the turbine voltage is forced down to meet it. Open circuit the PMA runs at about 45 volts.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles 1) i can only comment based on What you have shown me. 2) Accurately Estimate the Total amount of potential energy that is Available, at the Turbine intake. 3) you may be right about transmission losses; where the wattage is low. (use heavier cable; step-up voltage; make more current.) 4) it is probable that your estimate of output power, is Wrong/inflated. 5) it should be understood that the pma output Current CANNOT be correctly measured, if there is significant impedance/Resistance in the output circuit. 6) in order to Correctly Estimate the pma output, the output circuit MUST cause a nominal amount of (internal) lenz-force braking, at the pma rotor. when this is so, the pma rpms WILL be reduced. 7) in order to calculate output watts,correctly, measured amps must be combined with the (estimated) voltage produced, at the reduced rpms. 8) this can be done in one of two ways. short the pma output, and measure amps/volts with a clampmeter, at the shorting-lead. or, measure current with a direct-connect ammeter, and Estimate the output voltage, at the Reduced rpms.
He did - 1,375 feet to be more precise. Although the mine is a lot deeper than that, everything below that level is flooded. Thanks for watching Josh :)
Yeah. I think the nozzle is still too big and also the charge controller is forcing it down to about 14v (open-circuit voltage is about 40v) which is slowing it right down. I've got a new nozzle for it and an MPPT controller sat in the back of my car, I'll go put them on soon and I reckon it'll make quite a difference. It's been spinning constantly since January now.
Thanks for your comment Ulas K but I'm pleased to report that no water is wasted. The water is drawn off an underground watercourse and put back into it further downstream, it's not running off a mains water supply. Here in Snowdonia, there is so much water we normally can't get rid of the stuff fast enough.
That’s really nicely engineered. I look forward to following your progress.
Thanks very much Alex, your feedback is appreciated! There is some other turbine stuff on my channel if you're interested in this sort of thing. All the best :)
I want to buy the entire set. Can you please assist me?. I am from India.
@@irudayaraj7030 Well this is a home-made setup, why not source some parts and make something similar? There is really no clever engineering here, it's all very crude. Or if it's not for you, you can buy ready-made turbines online, with everything included. I've actually got a 100w Turgo rig that's a ready-made commercial product, coincidently made in India, but I've never actually used it or even tried it. I'll do a video on it when I do!
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles dear brother, in my place I unable to get this. But this will be very much useful and very badly needed our place. I am looking for your support.
Great project and as long as you've got constant water it will have no problem keeping your batteries charged. Maybe a few tweaks needed for max potential but great design.
Thanks David, I appreciate your comments. Yes the water is constant, it won't ever stop or reduce. I've not been back to it in nearly a month, I'm sure it'll still be spinning away alright though. I've bought a better wheel with more cups from a helpful local chap, might see if I can swap that on, should give a few more watts.
Ok the second part of your video was awesome down in the mine. 35 watts over 24 hours is 840 watts. My 120 ah deep cycle batteries only supply 720 usable watts, that's discharging then to 50%. I think you did a fantastic job and just think with a bit of tweaking you can easily double that. Good job mate.
Thank you very much Solrac. yes it makes 840w/h per day, or 0.84 KW/h per day. So that's a couple of days to fully recharge the two gel 110AH batteries that it's connected to via a charge controller. And this works great for me because I only generally work in that area of the mine about once a week, so when I'm there I've got plenty of power available and waiting for use (lighting/boiling a kettle/charging drill batteries etc). Then when I come back a week later, the batteries are full again. So it's fine for my needs really, even if I could double the power output there wouldn't be any practical gain for me, unless I end up working there a lot more. But it's fun to play about with these things, and I have some more ideas!
In times gone by from our grandparents people used to power water motors to drive sewing machines and other machinery using just mains water and something similar to a Pelton wheel turbine. This practice has long gone with the advent of modern electric motors but the notion of me generating electricity, even a relatively small amount using something I've already paid for makes a lot of sense. I don't know about you but I'm up in Scotland and we don't get our water usage metered it's just part of your council tax as a yearly fixed sum. So apart from people shouting about wasting water, which could be stored and used to water the garden or growing vegetables, flush toilets, fill baths etc. I have actually already paid for it so why not.
Hello Techstuff and thanks for writing. I know the kind of water motor that you mean and actually have one (from 1905 I think?) installed in the same mine, there is a video about it on my channel. In regards using the mains water for generating electricity, if you've got good mains pressure and good flow, then yes you would be able to make perhaps 50 watts or more from it. Whether that's legal or not I couldn't advise you. Reminds me of a friend years ago who managed to draw a constant 15 watts from his defunct ISDN telephone line.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles thanks I'll check out that video. I have seen a video on youtube of someone tapping into a phone line and It was enough to charge a phone. Keep up the good videos mate, the more we learn the better we become.
Nicely done as far as the mechanical aspects of your setup, you need an MPPT controller on the output of the alternator to optimize the current/voltage output. You can think of it as a variable matching transformer to couple the supply to the load at the operating point where the power output is maximized. Julian Ilett has a good series on RUclips about the theory of operation of MPPT controllers.
On edit: An MPPT controller would let you easily experiment with the nozzle size to trade off pressure vs flow rate for the maximum possible mechanical power output from your turbine. A smaller nozzle may well allow you to create more power by minimizing friction losses in your very long feed pipe. You have a lathe evidently so making inserts for your nozzle shouldn't be particularly difficult.
Thank you so much Giles for your thoughtful and helpful comments. Now that it's charging a bank of leisure batteries, it is going through an MPPT controller (a Schneider C40) which seems to work well. I did buy a smaller nozzle for it and it has increased the power a bit, but yes it would be worth me using my lathe to make a few different sizes to experiment. But to be honest I'm considering moving it "upstream" so it's not got the really long 300m horizontal length of thin pipe to go through, although I then need to get the electricity to transmit 300m back with minimal losses. So I'll have to transmit it at high voltage, but really I wanted to keep everything below 50v if possible.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Would you still rectify at the generator and then use a boost converter to transmit at high voltage DC (as otherwise you'd need a three phase transformer)? I think the cables and connectors that they use for solar arrays are pretty rugged and designed to be used in all weathers.
You might try and add a weighted flywheel to the pelton wheel. I imagine it would balance out demand.
Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.
Thinking the same thing. If the scoops were made out of metal it would act as a flywheel.
With the vertical head behind that water, getting a nozzle sized so that you maintain your static head is important. I mean, ideally, you'd flow the maximum water possible without losing head. But better to be a little too small than a little too big, as the pressure is key.
Pressure is what gives you speed, and we all remember the equation for kinetic energy.
Without knowing your final flow rate, it's all conjecture. But with that vertical head, more than 100W is very achievable and I'm 100% certain that your setup will get you there. Fine tuning is all it will take.
Hello Christian. Just wanting to thank you for your helpful and encouraging reply, I think you are totally right and that the jet size is too big. It's about 4mm at the moment, so I think it's loosing a lot of the pressure. I think I will fill the jet with molten tin or solder and then drill it to perhaps 3mm.
Something else has dawned on me from the electrical side. I wonder if an MPPT charge controller might give a better result as the open voltage (35v) is quite a lot higher than the battery voltage (12v). My current controller is just a simple connect/disconnect type so it forces the turbine down to battery voltage. I will try it next time I am down there :)
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles MPPT won't change what the generator creates, but it will sure as hell give you more at the point of use. In this case, I'm guessing you'd more than double your real charge rate.
I love the Ammo Can.
The friction through a 1" pipe 1Km long is the killer.
There is no way around it, but to put a much larger pipe in, over that length.
The smaller the diameter (pipe). The more friction is produced from the walls of the pipe by the speed of the water trying to go through the pipe.
Try and reduce speed of water to 1.5 Litres per second which will reduce the friction through the pipe.
Thanks Bill. You're totally right that it's the pipe diameter that holds it back but the installation of a much larger pipe would be extremely expensive that far underground. It's not just the cost of the pipe, it's the cost of the workforce required to drag it down there and install it. And the route it takes is a bit torturous! But it doesn't need to make a lot, it just needs to keep some large lead acid batteries floating. A smaller jet does seem the way forward, I will experiment with a really fine one to see if it yields more watts.
Nice job if you choose to increase the pressure with a wider pipe you could try fire hose it’s pretty cheap but seems like a long way love the casing and base looks very neat 👍
Thanks for watching and your comments. Yeah layflat hose is a good way to do it but in this case I wanted to be able to bury the pipe so it's not visible in the ballast on the mine floor. I've got another location in the mine where the drop is about 100 feet, almost vertical, and enough water to keep a 4" pipe full. I think this would spin a turbine very well, I will be sure to do that when I can and I'll make a video!
The Amazing Adventures of Miles ace idea that can’t wait to see the results keep up the good work
Looks like the absence of the chain/sprocket reduction gearing sure made a difference between it and direct drive. I was also wondering if something happened to that drive on the old wheel and the chain popped if anything would've damaged the old rig when left to run wide open and freewheeling. I don't know a thing about this but maybe a very little common sense looking. More pressure/flow to make up the difference in gearing but doesn't look like a smaller nozzle will do it because the flow will be reduced and you have to have flow to build pressure and torque. I wish you well and you ought to be able to make a bearing set for the old girl with that lathe when the time is right. CHEERS!.
A very neat job
Judging from the flow rate under the ammo box, you need a much larger hose bringing in the water. There is a lot of turbulence and frictional loss from such a small pipe.
Thanks Oby-1. You are absolutely correct, a larger diameter pipe would make a massive improvement, this is only one inch (25mm) and it's 1/2 a KM long. Because of where it is though, and the difficulty of manually handling pipework though the mine, it had to be small. A two inch pipe would make more electricity but would have cost a huge amount more in labour costs. It's a trade off I was aware of at the time.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Would love to see an update with a larger pipe. Thanks for the reply.
Nice build. if it works leave it alone.
You could consider a short length of say 2-3 inch by 10 meters pipe , not familiar with your mine layout, but place the pipe vertically and feed the turbine next to it, if you do, try replacing the nozzle feed pipe arrangement for close to the same size as your penstock.
The nozzle diameter should be at least a third the size of the pelton bucket, yours looks fine :)
edit : nozzle up to a 3rd of the pelton bucket size
Hi Miles, for sure, you love hydro turbine ! You should have more power from this setup.
I don't know what is your water flow, I will said about 0,25 to 0,5 liters/seconde.
With 6,5 Bar. If the all setup efficiency is 50% (pipe friction, nozle diameter) You could plan to produce +/- 80W.
I run a small Pelton turbine at home, regarding the water flow (max 3 liters/second), 150 meters, 50mm diameter pipe, 64meters elevation (6,4 bar) , I can produce from 300 to 700W.
I have a few video about it in RUclips
Bonjour Cristof! Merci for watching my video. I think you are quite right, I should expect a greater wattage from this setup. I am wondering if the wheel is too large diameter for the size of the flow, and is giving too slow RPM. I used a 200mm wheel, maybe a 120mm wheel would help. I do have a smaller wheel (and a smaller jet) and will see if that makes much difference. Merci for your help!
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Hi Miles, you should also use a mppt charge controler, it will help a lot for more power (a solar one will be good )
@@cristof48 Thank you Cristof! Yes, I do use a small 10 amp Schneider charge controller which has Mppt. It definitely squeezes a bit more out that just a direct connection. Also, I tried changing for a smaller nozzle today, it made it go much faster with no load, probably twice as fast, but when on load I think it gave about 20% more power.
I think maybe my Pelton Wheel itself is not ideal, maybe not enough spoons. Lots of water still flies out in direct line having not given up its energy.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles I noticed the jet not aiming into the cupped area of the pelton wheel, maybe aim a little to the left or right into a cupped section...or replace with solid cups normally found on a pelton wheel
Great one there boss....Greetings for Ghana
Thank you sir!
Great job you done sir.
I appreciate you watching my video and commenting, thank you ^_^
It looks like you know what you're doing so I don't have much to add.
Good Job!
Thanks Joe, your comments are much appreciated.
Very nice idea! Thanks for the inspiration.
Well done mate.
Very nice 👍
Fantastic bit of information. Thanks for posting this. !:- )
Thank you :)
Fantastic video and extremely interesting doing this down a mine. The Pelton wheel needs two heads minimum from what I have read, some setups have upto five heads around the wheel to get the optical RPM, I was wondering if you built a water storage tank above the water turbine holds let’s say holds 1,000 litres, and a 15mm pipe coming out at the bottom to the nozzle, this would give you the pressure you need to run the turbine. The water in the tank will not drain fully as the water out of the nozzle would only despise out a tricycle for water compared to the mass of water in the tank and will have continuous water in from the stream to the tank. Also a valve in front of the nozzle would allow you to increase the pressure or tun off incase you need to top the water tank up.
Thanks Trevor for your comments and useful suggestions. I think what you're suggesting there is a kind of pressure reservoir? Which would certainly work but I think it would only provide a surge if the turbine is stop-started. Or I think anyway. It's a bit like the air receivers the miners used, basically the air pipe to the drill was extremely long and there was a big pressure drop to the drill, so they put a big steel high-pressure tank at the drill-end and it would fill up and pressurise, then provide a big surge of pressure to the drill when it was needed. But it required a stop-start use, it wouldn't have been effective at continuous duty. I think that's what you're suggesting, but not too sure. Thanks Trevor!
>The Pelton wheel needs two heads minimum
I'm not sure why that would be necessary.
>Also a valve in front of the nozzle would allow you to increase the pressure
Pressure is a property of water head. A valve won't increase pressure unless the flow rate though the pipe is so high the water head drops.
I recommend making the penstock pipe larger.
Thanks for that Harry. I'd love to be able to do that, it would increase the power dramatically but I have to use what's already there. It would be an immense operation to change the pipe.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles or add another pipe to it.
Have you got a mppt chargecontroller in there. That will get the max power point. Stop it from slowing down to much under load and also will convert the high voltage down and increase the amps increasing efficiency greatly if you have 95v open circuit
Hiya M J and thanks for the comments. Yes on the other end is an MPPT controller, and two Victron 110AH gel batteries. The MPPT controller does a great job, and it means that whenever I am working in that area of the mine (probably once a week) the batteries are full and just waiting. I can take up to 2KWh from them, then when I come back, they are full again.
Try an MPPT (maximum power point tracker). That will load the alternator at the best efficiency point.
Hi there George. You're totally right, I did actually swap out the old charge controller to an MPPT one and it made a big difference, as in nearly doubled the wattage. It's funny to hear it hunt around for the optimum output, the wheel is constantly changing speed but slowly.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Yes, it's really interesting! Mine starts off all voltage (drawing no current) and transitions to all current (so there's minimal voltage). I guess it internally tabulates that data and then goes back to the maximum power point where it then loosely follows the curve maxima as it moves. Clever stuff!
@@m1geo Yes I figured it would be something like that because when you first start it, it spends ages trying it at all speeds from full-whack to grinding to a halt, then goes back to somewhere in the middle where the watts were highest. But it doesn't just stay there, it tracks up and down a bit to hunt for any improvements if conditions change.
The ammo box is cool and seems sturdy but it not round hence its creating drag on the turbine
Thanks for watching and commenting Paddy. Yes I think you're right, a round case would be better, but the ammo box is cheap and easy to open and maintain and things. I actually visited this turbine today just to check on it. It's still going strong, 18 months in. Returning about 80 watts.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles 80 Watts Nice
I have to start my project this summer
Im jealous of all you guys on RUclips, getting power iv got one stream and a big river
I'm gonna start with the stream so how I go
I'm not that mechanicly minded so ill be copying all you tubers ides 🙏
It's gonna be fun
My goal from the stream is in around 80 Watts and hour 10 months of the year in Ireland
The big river has cubic meters of flow and a bit of down hill stretch...
Pelton wheels should not be boxed! Any interaction of the water with the wheel after the initial impact must be avoided! Since the exiting water goes in opposite direction than the jet, I would shoot jet upward from below so exiting water is down, aided by gravity. if water is fed horizontally, it should be below the axis of the wheel, not above.
Getting the water OUT is harder then getting it IN.
Thank you Brian for this very helpful advice, it all makes a lot of sense and I'll take it on board for my next Pelton design.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Just so you understand how Pelton wheels work. The wheel's peripheral's speed is ideally exactly half the water-jet speed. The water hits the blade, does a 180 degree turn, and exits "completely stopped" (the wheel recovering all the kinetic energy of the water). In reality, the wheel must turn a little slower, because of friction, and the water must have some speed to exit, and it can't turn all of 180 degrees. Because it is exiting slow, there must be a lot of (sideways) room for the slow exit. This type of turbine can not have flooded exit.
Have you tried placing a large electrolytic capacitor (at least 1000uF) on the DC output from the rectifier?
Very good video thank you.
Thank you Andrew, your comments are very much appreciated.
Hi,Please tell me the dimensions of Pelton turbine,the diameter and the bucket size. Also the power output you are getting.
Hi. Great video and design. I always wanted to build a hydraulic system, but I wish there are companies that sell the system altogether like the turbine, runner, generator, batteries, inverters etc. I want to build a hydraulic system back in Africa where we use 220V instead of 110V in North America. Do you think I can use hydro system to power appliances like AC, fridge, microwave i.e all the heavy loads or do you think I should use it for smaller loads? I have not experience connecting wires from the generator to the batteries. What should I be careful about, when it comes to wires? What kind of batteries should I buy? Would I need an inverter as well? Sorry about all these questions, but I am interested in your advice and starting a hydraulic system soon. Thank you for your help.
Hello Eugene and thanks for watching. Yes a hydro system will do all you want but if you do it as a Pelton like this one, you will need a high pressure water supply. If you live in a mountainous area with lots of water, great. If you live somewhere flat, a Pelton won't be any use at all.
I would advise you to have the turbine charge a bank of large leisure batteries, then use the batteries to power a 220v inverter to give you your electrics for microwave and things.
Wiring the turbine to the batteries is easy, you just need a wind-turbine charge controller (cheap on eBay) and that'll convert the three-phase from the turbine into charge for your battery. It will manage the charging for you, you just need to hook the three wires (in any order) from the turbine into the charge controller, then connect the charge controller to the batteries.
There are lots of different batteries on the market, personally I really like the Victron Gel batteries, they are very good quality but they are expensive. This turbine charges two 130AH Victron batteries.
I hope this is helpful to you!
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Right about the pelton being useless on the flat BUT an undershot wheel would work. Maybe an overshot wheel if fall is limited.
I really like your design.
Thank you Tony, I appreciate you watching my video and giving feedback.
hi the link for alternator is not working do you have any more contact info where to purchase ps: you have some very good videos
Good effort...need to double up the pipeline if you want more power. Do you still get slate and how come the mine isn't flooding most mine hydro's are used to pump a mine dry not fill it. :)
lol yes, well this turbine is positioned 1375 feet below the surface, but it's still above sea level (just) as the mine is in the mountains. The mine has a deep-drainage tunnel that runs to the outside world, far from this turbine but vertically only about 30 feet below this point. The deep tunnel sets the "free drainage horizon", meaning that no matter how much water you pour into the mine, it'll never flood above that horizon. However, there are many miles of flooded workings below that level, dropping down about another thousand vertical feet. That was always pumped out back when the mine was operational (as in extracting slate) but now it's just flooded and the water stays there. Would love to pump it out one day just for a look before it fills up again but it would be very expensive to do.
And yes Welsh Slate is still extracted but it's only a fraction of the industry that it was, and what slate does come out is quarried from the surface now, no mines are working anymore.
The reason for this is cost, operating a mine in the UK is very expensive and although there is plenty of slate here, and it really is extremely good quality, there is no way to compete with the likes of China. They can extract their slate much cheaper due to their low labour costs, taxes and legislative compliance. If you're building a housing estate somewhere then what you care about is price per ton, not where it has come from, and whether the roof lasts 100 years or 300 years is of no consequence on a house that you only guarantee for 10 years.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Now that would be fun and possibly a bit dangerous if things started to collapse. Count me in if you fancy pumping it out I've done a bit of caving in my time and its great fun. Guess your in Wales some where, I'm in Scotland. Good luck with your wee hydro. Cheers
@@martinfoster288 Yes it would be fun but seriously expensive. Would also require the appropriate licences for dewatering drowned workings, but that's unlikely to be an issue as slate-mine water is very clean (if it was a lead mine for example it would be a different story). Slate mines generally cope well with dewatering, I wouldn't expect much ground movement from pumping it out. Not that it'll ever happen unless I win the lottery...
use the external power for the powermeter a 9v battery will do
That's a very good idea, there is a little socket for external power but I don't think I've got anything that will plug into it. I'll have a look about.
Awesome project! I was running the numbers for pressure loss and realized how little I know about this application...came out to a 90% loss @ 0,5 liter/s flow rate for the 25mm pipe alone - but that can't be even close, can it? Anyhow, my first thought was to put a tachometer on the tip of the blades and compare that to the velocity of the water jet.
Thank you for your comment :) To be honest I'm not sure how to calculate losses, I just know from some manual somewhere back in the day that the diameter of the feed pipe is extremely important, as is not having it too long on the horizontal. A 1km long pipe of 25mm diameter, even with a 65m drop, is not ideally suited for a turbine. But that's what is there so that's what it's working on, and replacing the whole pipe though the mine with say a 60mm would be extremely expensive due to the complex route.
I couldn't give accurate figures on the slow-down under load but it seems to be a lot. I was slightly alarmed to find the open-circuit voltage over 95 VDC, but then connecting to the 12v batteries to charge them obviously it drops considerably down to 12-14 volts and the wheel grinds away slowly.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles gates.com has a "Fluid Flow Pressure Calculator" that I used, not metric format though. Looks like a lot of design went into the turbine, how do you verify the action of the wheel-materjet interface - a high speed camera?
Nice!
Question: As an R&D Eng, I have to wonder why everyone, everyone, houses the turbine? The massive amount of back-splash in the housing must, must, reduce efficiency GREATLY.. Why not let the waste-water run straight off, and away? House the generator & electronics instead!! after all, these are what needs protecting, and the benefit to efficiency should be HUGE as well.
If you're going to house the turbine the housing should have super smooth flow path, and eject the water immediately after the turbine, right? what am I missing??
These are all questions as I really, really, dont know.
Thanks for commenting Capthuffy. You are totally right in that if it was all totally open it would go faster. I've run other turbines without the housing and there is a difference in power to when you put the housing back on. Not a huge amount but it does make a difference yes. The problem with doing that here is that the turbine is located at the side of a tunnel in a mine, along which people pass regularly. They would get utterly soaked without the housing, as the water really would spray absolutely everywhere! And secondly, There would be a health&safety issue with people walking past a turbine spinning at high RPM. If they tripped and fell into it they would be seriously injured (not an impossible situation given all the water that would be spaying everywhere).
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles Thank You. Excellent! I thought your response would have been to protect the turbine from damage: In my mind's eye: branches or rock fall from above.
p.s. also, if done just right the turbine housing can contribute by adding "draw" (suction?) making it more efficient per unit of water.
I believe pelton wheels are different from and should never be called turbines since they operate at lower speeds and efficiencies . . .
Peltons are more akin to water wheels as such . . .
So it goes ! ! !
- Kurt Vonnegut - Slaughterhouse Five -
There exists an optimal shape for pelton wheel housing to avoid that the water splashes back on the wheel
Thanks deshniq, yes I bet there is a perfect shape, probably round :) In fact no housing at all would be best but it would make a horrible mess I think.
How can have this kind of thing, hydro turbine I'm interested pls.
It'd dryer with compressed air. and you get much more speed with air power...
Hiya Dana and thanks for the comments. Yes it would run on compressed air (or even steam), but there is no compressed air available. The mine did have a big air network about 100 years ago but it's long gone now and renewing it would cost more than my annual salary. But, there is some water available, hence going Hydro.
Have you got a video of how fast the water is that the intake part is ?
Hello Chris, do you mean at the other end of the pipe? I could show that in a video if it is of interest...
None of the eBay links work, what's the company for alternator?
Hi Zak! It's made by "Ista Breeze", if you put that into eBay it'll find all their stuff. The one I got for this project is this one: ebay.us/lqi9BE
Can you please let me know where to find that nozzle? The one say is not available... Tks!
sure: ebay.us/QaBX96
If you just put in "Brass Jet Fountain Nozzle" into eBay, loads will come up.
I am just in the process of designing such a system. How durable have the plastic runners been? Has the generator been reliable?
Hello David, thanks for watching. Actually I've been meaning to do an update video for this as it's been operational for some time now. I did a few tweaks actually and got it making about 85w in the end. It's been spinning non-stop ever since, still going absolutely fine today, and the plastic cups on the turbine are totally fine. The steel hub is a bit corroded but it doesn't matter, plenty of metal in it. The only trouble this turbine gave was my fault. I repositioned it a few months back but I didn't clock the fact that it was angled slightly so the alternator was lower than the turbine and I didn't notice but water constantly ran down the shaft and into the alternator bearings. Those bearings failed within a couple of weeks as a result of all the water pouring on them so I had to change them and reposition the turbine level again so the water doesn't run down into the alternator. It's been fine since. Thanks again, Miles
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles YAAY!
You don’t need to go all the way down, should do the math and see how far down you need to go to get the most out of the unit with a larger pipe.
In your next video, use a tripod. It is hard to watch a moving target.
I certainly will! Sorry if I made you sea sick. Thanks very much for watching and for the feedback!
огонь
You have your own slate mine? Do you live in Wales?
Oh no it's not my slate mine, although my company is the Lease Holder. Check us out at www.go-below.co.uk :)
Wheel is to small or nozzle to small. May not enough flow.
What kind of motor you use respect my comment
Um. So, that's an ebay link, not a link to the company that made your alternator. When the item sells the link no longer shows the item on ebay. Can you spell the name of the companay? Did you say "Ice Degrees?" Google didn't give me anything as a result.
Sorry for the slow response! Ista Breeze is the company that the PMG came from.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles I really appreciate this video. It simplifies and explains everything. I found some other brands of three cycle magnetic alternators and want to try a perpetual motion generator. My generator requires 400 watts to run... so if the resulting trust has an output of more than 400watts, it will power itself and provide me with excess to store in a battery bank. *fingers crossed* I'm happy to share if it works but I"m stuck in a truck right now. Over the road 24/7 trucker. Driving local after September. Not gonna patent my idea and will share it openly if it works efficiently.
@@lotusconsultations9925 Thanks for your comments, it's can't be fun being stuck in a truck day after day. A perpetual motion generator would be a great way to charge a battery bank, I hope that works out for you. Very kind of you to share the design, I'm sure there will be a lot of keen interest in it. Thanks, Miles
Berapa harganya, outputnya berapa kw?
hai esagerato mettendo un generatore cosi potente , la girante ideale ha 100 mm diametro idraulico e la saracinesca sulla condotta dovrebbe essere piu grande di 1 " ( internamente la sfera e piu picccola e fa turbolenze alla acqua ) buon lavoro.. e guarda i miei video
Nice 100K views
I want this unit... Can u plz help me in getting 1 unit 800 watt
Hello Imran thanks for commenting. If you're looking for that Alternator specifically, they are available on eBay, just search for "IstaBreeze" and you'll see all their products including the alternators. I'm nothing to do with them at all, so cannot help you get one, but they do international delivery so I'm sure you'll have no problems. There are other comparable products available from other companies too, including converted car-alternators which are also very good.
Why cant these run on compressed air?
C G ... I believe the idea is to produce electricity, not use electricity to produce compressed air, to produce electricity.
Hello CG and thanks for your comments. Yes it could run on compressed air, but there is no compressed air available in the mine, just naturally falling water.
some info. 1) site analysis and Predicted potential energy, at the turbine runner. 2) MATCHING component spec's, to the energy Available at the site. i would guess that Neither has happened. at least, you realize that a major pressure falloff occurs. the (extreme) horizontal run and a very low flow rate equals Not much energy, at the turbine runner. conclusions: Estimate the amount of potential energy available; at a location where the horizontal run, of the water, is MUCH less. Match component Spec's to the SITE. and, run the wild AC from a pma, to wherever you want the power. plan-b: utilize a correctly designed, free-standing, waterwheel. cheers googletranslate
(pabba - i don't think you made a mistake.)
Thank you so much for your comments David. You are right in that the components here have not been specifically matched to the water source, and the reason for that is economic. I have lots of bits hanging around, the alternator is off an old project, so is the Pelton. So it is a case of using what I have available. I'm sure a custom precision made machine to match that exact water source would yield the best possible result.
Now I am considering moving the turbine further "upstream" to see if that helps, as you suggest. The very long pipe that supplies the water is totally level for the last 300m to the turbine, so if I move it to the other side of that 300m length , I expect it will be better because less friction?
However, I then need to run 300m of three-core cable back to where the 12v power is needed and I assume I am going to get voltage drop doing that. Question is, which gives the most power at the end?
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles some info. it appears that the flow rate may be in the range of .3 liters per second; note that this is a M I N U T E amount of water. a lot of the energy from the effective head is lost, in the very very long horizontal run (of the water delivery system). if you did EVERYTHING else Right, you might be able to generate two-point-five watts DC, continuous. you have Nothing to lose and everything to gain, by running the wild AC from a pma; rather than, water. any kind of AC can be run, with minimal losses; in this case, there might be some small, measurable losses. in this case, cables can be, plain-ol', 16ga three-conductor wire. even though there is a significant amount of head, the very very low flow rate 'tells the tale'; in the math. which is:
flow rate (in cu. Meters per second) x head (in meters) x gravity (9.81 mps/ps); multiply by 1000 to get watts. then, subtract system losses, to get estimated NET output. due to the very very low flow rate, this is an instance where the use of a high-speed hydroturbine is Not recommended. i have no interest in where you components come from.
Thank you David for your very helpful reply. That is a useful formula, thank you! I do not know the flow rate I have, but I am sure is it more than .3L/sec. I will attempt to establish it. It must be more because it is putting more than 3 amps continuously into the 12v battery, so that's around 40 watts roughly. I will move the turbine to the other end of the 300m pipe next time I'm there and report the difference in power, I am sure it will be higher there.
I think the cable losses will still be significant though, a 16 gauge cable carrying 12v AC 3 phase over 300 meters is showing a 57% loss at just one amp current. If the voltage can be higher the losses will be less but as it's charging a 12v battery, the turbine voltage is forced down to meet it. Open circuit the PMA runs at about 45 volts.
@@TheAmazingAdventuresOfMiles 1) i can only comment based on What you have shown me. 2) Accurately Estimate the Total amount of potential energy that is Available, at the Turbine intake. 3) you may be right about transmission losses; where the wattage is low. (use heavier cable; step-up voltage; make more current.) 4) it is probable that your estimate of output power, is Wrong/inflated. 5) it should be understood that the pma output Current CANNOT be correctly measured, if there is significant impedance/Resistance in the output circuit. 6) in order to Correctly Estimate the pma output, the output circuit MUST cause a nominal amount of (internal) lenz-force braking, at the pma rotor. when this is so, the pma rpms WILL be reduced. 7) in order to calculate output watts,correctly, measured amps must be combined with the (estimated) voltage produced, at the reduced rpms. 8) this can be done in one of two ways.
short the pma output, and measure amps/volts with a clampmeter, at the shorting-lead. or,
measure current with a direct-connect ammeter, and Estimate the output voltage, at the Reduced rpms.
Did he say 1,300 feet underground???
He did - 1,375 feet to be more precise. Although the mine is a lot deeper than that, everything below that level is flooded. Thanks for watching Josh :)
I love the project but I had to stop half way. The moving camera was making me dizzy. Keep up the great work
Thanks Solrac and sorry for making you dizzy! I will try to not move the camera too much on my next video :)
wey are you 1300 ft UNDER GROUND!!!!
I like it there :)
is it an abandoned mine???
:)
i like it to its cool
im new to your channel i like your videos
Weak audio .. frustrating
That wheel is barely turning!
Yeah. I think the nozzle is still too big and also the charge controller is forcing it down to about 14v (open-circuit voltage is about 40v) which is slowing it right down.
I've got a new nozzle for it and an MPPT controller sat in the back of my car, I'll go put them on soon and I reckon it'll make quite a difference.
It's been spinning constantly since January now.
You have turn on water all day long.That is waste water.
Thanks for your comment Ulas K but I'm pleased to report that no water is wasted. The water is drawn off an underground watercourse and put back into it further downstream, it's not running off a mains water supply.
Here in Snowdonia, there is so much water we normally can't get rid of the stuff fast enough.
Are u in a cave!?
Hello Karpeno, no it's not a cave, it's a slate mine. Well, technically it's an underground quarry but I consider it a mine.