Battletech Mech Tactics Review: Hunchback
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2024
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A nice Medium 'Mech with a unique role of "Don't come near me 9-hex doom bubble" and is the lightest non-variant 'Mech to do so in the Succession Wars, cementing it's role on the table top. It's also the best balanced one to do so as the others in its weight class or less all have even significant drawbacks in terms of total armor. A standard Hunchback has as much armor as the 70 ton heavier Warhammer 6R or the 65-ton Catapult C1 standards and with the vast majority front facing. Let that sink in for a bit on how much armor the Hunchie have for a 50 tonner Medium.
That said, the Hunchback while despite all that armor has two very well known weaknesses: Rear armor not thick enough to take a single medium laser hit and an instant crit kill vulnerability in the left torso. Combine the two together and a medium laser hit to the rear left torso is likely to lead to an instant kill, so keep this in mind and keep enemies away from your left rear arc where you only have a single medium laser to defend yourself with.
I still prefer kicks to Fritz's punching due to just being superior overall in chances of landing a hit and forcing an opponent to take a PSR vs losing twin medium damage output (or 1/3 of ranged weapons output if you think of it that way) in most cases. Albeit there are exceptions to this such as a too risky to kick (9+ up to succeed, but you need 11+ to hit on punching), a juicy vulnerable exposed torso to hit or an enemy who is out of kick arc but in arc of one punch to the side so can clothesline your opponent. But yeah, getting up close and personal for a mugging is the Hunchback way.
Also do look up all the 4 series variants of the Hunchback (or Swaybacks, and in the case of the 4P the "Discoback"). Each of them mixes up the formula and changes the Hunchback into a new unique role on the same chassis to surprise your opponent. I'm honestly surprised how it was never upgraded into an Omnimech with a left torso payload bay for multirole missions albeit it would come pretty close to the 50-ton Omni Blackjack in that role.
...And if you want to bring an AC/20 to enemy's back, bring a Saladin!
catapults normally have lrm-15s. They have lrm-20s when they sacrifice their MLAS
4 Main Tactics! (And a fanatical devotion to the Pope.)
Oh yeah, I have one 'Mech review suggestion. I noticed that the Phoenix Hawk seems to be the common medium 'Mech that you have not covered in your reviews. With it being a divisive 'Mech depending on player play style, I'm curious on your thoughts and experiences with it.
A good idea to give the enemy something to think about and forget shooting lrms to the hunchback is bringing hetzers. I think they combine well with HBK-4G
Such a workhorse! AlwYs torn between the Hunchback & Swayback!
I would love to see your input and view on the Hunchback IIC in a vid. Just started in a group and love this all or nothing play style. Ran the basic, 2, 3, and then discovered 4. Got a reaction from other veterans in the group like, you brought THAT! More of because of how damn devestating it is and how fragile. Haven't lost one yet!!!
Few mechs can take and hold the center of the table for around 1000 BV. The Hunchback is one of them. This makes it your best option for that hard and heavy "tip of the spear" in low BV games at or under 5000 BV or so. In higher BV games, I agree it needs help, but if I was running the Hunchback with the BLR-1G, like the example Fritz used, I'd put the Hunchback up front, and let the BattleMaster shadow it, rather than the other way around. That's because the BLR-1G has a lot better prospect of doing some good at longer ranges than the Hunchback, whereas the Hunchback needs to be as close as possible for its limited, but effective, armament to have the best chance of doing good.
Of course, everyone dreams of that rear torso shot with that AC/20. But if I'm going to go backstabbing, I know I'd have my best chance to hit rear armor in a machine with multiple medium lasers, or multiple SRM racks; stuff that's going to give me multiple chances at the location chart.
Besides, you need something with a bit more nimbleness to jockey for position back there, something with speed, or jump jets. But the HBK-4G is no Baryshnikov; it has all the nimbleness of Misha the tap dancing bear. And for reasons DaNuker expounded upon beautifully, that Hunchback needs to take care with its placing and facing.
No, I want that AC/20 to concentrate on getting FRONT torso shots, because that front torso armor doesn't look so impressive after you mark off 20 bubbles to a single section. To put it in perspective, all it takes is ONE AC/20 hit to an Atlas's left or right torso, and that impressive 32 point armor slab gets reduced by 68.75%. A second hit there will hit structure, yielding a chance at a critical and a possible ammo explosion. And if the Hunchback can put that amount of hurt on the AS7-D, imagine what it'll do to something less well protected?
I'm sorry, but I never understood why I should "hold the middle" if I can bypass?
I liked to play the hunchback, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's to slow, a nice snack for every long range weapon based Mech or Mechs.
ONLY on terrain/city heavy maps the Hunchback may shine, BUT every jump capable Mech can easily ignore and bypass it.
The most of the time you can handle a Hunchback in two ways
1. Your opponent plays "save", tries to keep the Hunchback out of harme: just keep your distance, otherwise ignore the hunchback, focus fire on enemies in more Offensiv positions, kill Hunchback later.
2. Your opponent plays the Hunchback offensively, as front mech: NAIL IT. A hunchback in a crossfire situation has limited standing power and is to slow to run away. With Indirect Fire Capabilities even easier, but 2 or 3 Mechs firing concentrated, the chance is high you peel it like an boiled egg, so every better armed fast mover can later snack it. A stripped Hunchback is easy lunch for an Wolfhound, Phoenix Hawk or small distance Fighters like Panther or Vindicator.
I never tried to "hold the middle". If the opponent wants it, give it to him but make him pay. Bypass, surround, use the outlines of the field to your advantage. I didn't know one map where "the middle" is crucial.
BUT I'm not a professional. I stopped playing 28 years ago, just restarted yet after my son and my nephew found all the old stuff and wanted to play.
There's virtue in what you're saying,@@papaaaaaaa2625 . I mean, I play a lot of Kurita, so I see the wisdom in using mobility to out maneuver the opposition. You'll get no argument from me there.
But, in my opinion, it's a whole lot easier to maneuver efficiently if you can move in a straight line from end to end, which is why it helps to have the middle of the map secure. I don't want to get encircled, obviously, but by the same token, I don't want to be pushed up against the table edges either, because that seems even worse.
I agree that the Hunchback isn't the sort of machine that's ideal for big open fields with little cover. Naturally you'd want to pick it apart at range if you can. But even here, sometimes a unit like the HBK-4G justifies itself more by its distraction value. If a 1000BV or so middleweight is, like in your example, causing three units to cower behind cover, throwing up missiles at a penalty due to reliance on a spotter, that has value too. Because that allows the player to work the table edges unmolested, advancing along those flanks with assets that would otherwise be countered. A unit can only fire at one other unit per turn with any competence.
All in all, the Hunchback is a tool. It may not be the best tool for all jobs, but it is a very efficient tool for some jobs. For example, a good heavy is around 1300-1450BV, and typically has 10-14 tons of armor. A thing like that is going to double-quick up the table with impunity unless there's something between it and that back table edge where the fire support is at. LRMs alone, especially firing at a penalty for indirect fire, aren't going to stop it. The damage is too unreliable, and it's too spread out to make the kind of holes you need to make to put something like the Orion or the Thunderbolt down.
That's when something like the Hunchback can come into play. For the Hunchback is a little more than 1000BV. But it can tie up a heavy 30% to 50% more expensive in BV so that it isn't free to bully the softer targets.
@@Beatnik59 Sorry, but it seems you're not understanding what I mean.
Cower behind cover? I never said that. Keeping distance and benefit from a easy kill isn't "ignoring all other threats" because of fear.
You will not be able to "hold the middle", as you said, while your forces advance on the outlines. The Hunchback CAN'T do that on it's own. It will need support. It will ALWAYS need support!
Even a Panter light Mech, on its own, can handle a Hunchback in a 1on1 situation. Just keep distance and peel away the armor.
In a Lance vs Lance, a Hunchback on its own is a easy snack. Slow, no jump capability, mediocre armor, short weapon range. AND THAT is what you would have to do to "hold the middle' with an Hunchback while your other Mechs advance on the sideline.
As I said, the Hunchback wouldn't be my primary sorrow, but a easy kill on the way.
I WOULD NOT FOCUS ON unless I can seriously damage or kill it in one turn. Why should I.
To counter an advancing 1000 BV Hunchback I could use a Vindicator, cheaper, more durable and higher weapon efficiency...
Or an Panther. Even cheaper.
And these are not my "Go to" Mechs I would play regularly.
And indirect Fire is a HUGE problem for slower Mechs in bigger games. I hate to say that (because I hated to play it) but indirect Fire on bigger events can be a GAMECHANGER, particularly used against slow or stationary lights/mediums.
And, at the end, EVERY lost of an Mech, assault, heavy, medium or even the lightest of the lightest, means a unbalance in the initiative.
The hunchback is FUN to play, without a doubt. BUT I wouldn't recommend it because you'll need to coddle it.
1000BV Mech to "hold the middle" without long range capabilities...I'm in doubt, no matter if it is in a 1on1, LanceVSLance or a bigger formations game, sorry.
I just assume that you were intending to sit behind cover that blocks LOS,@@papaaaaaaa2625 , because I can't think why else you'd want to take a +1 penalty to the dice for indirect LRM fire. You need that ordinance to connect, and connect consistently over multiple turns. And it's against a target that is not just going to sit back and allow it to happen, but is working for position on its own.
...You didn't think that taking and holding the center means that the thing is sitting there doing nothing, did you?
Taking and holding the center, the way I think of it, isn't just about getting to the middle of the board, but pushing the enemy out towards the edges after you get there. I could send in a Centurion to do it, but the tactics you are talking about would work even better against against a Centurion, because it has less armor, 8.5 tons instead of 10.
You said a Hunchback is an "easy kill." How easy? How many turns do you think you'll need to take out a Hunchback with a Panther? Or a Vindicator? Because I don't think it'll get enough hits to connect, and connect in the right places, to get it done in any kind of timeframe that's reasonable. Even if it is rolling at a 7+ most turns, it is still missing 40% of the time. It needs two PPC hits on a single leg or a single right or left torso to strip the armor off. Or four LRM clusters of five to hit in the exact same spot. It'll need something else after that to hit structure. What are the odds that'll happen in three turns? Five turns? Ten turns?
See, those are the sort of things I think about in comparisons like these. The arithmetic makes sense, but the odds are that it'll take longer than "easy" to take down something like a Hunchback.
@@Beatnik59 Sorry, I really don't understand what your great plan is.
Holding the middle and pushing against the side...with a Hunchback and what BACKUP in what SETUP?
Let's say a Lance vs Lance, original setup, pre Clan, 2 Heavies, a medium and a light...i'm in doubt the hunchback could catch my medium choice, I would never ever field a 4/6 medium in this setup.
But even if, my choice would be the Vindicator, jump Jets AND weapons to damage you from the distance...distance I can keep easily.
My heavies would AT LEAST be as fast as the Hunchback, with way more range and standing power. They could also strip your armor away from the distance...so what?
So all your other Mechs would have to deal with my lance from the distance at the beginning. If you decide to go with more Mobil Mechs to get close quicker, your hunchback would be no help, because he can't close up and you would have to dispense Firepower for speed for your to heavies. In this case I would concentrate firepower on one of the other Mechs...while Hunchi tries to close up.
If you decide to go with average speed Mechs with more firepower, you would have no other choice than
A. Also go for distance firing and let your Hunchi take the long walk on its own (easy prey for crossfire).
B. Advance with all Mechs in similar speed, again without any distance fire from your medium...all to get to the middle...under fire the Hunchi CAN'T RETURN. 9 Hexes...that's the AKs Range. A Vindicator or even a Panther could EASILY position itself, fire from distance, sometimes with support from 1 or even 2 Heavies if there is a chance. The Chance to roll a 12 on the hitzone is 2,78%...not bad, but not my main intention. Just peeling down armor.
So in what way would the Hunchback be an improvement to an Vindicator/Panther that just stays back AND CAN'T BE DAMAGED AT ALL by the Hunchi?
ALL other Mechs can also stay back, and enjoy the fight, because YOU have to advance to bring a Mech into the gamble that is otherwise useless.
And again, the Panther or the Vindicator wouldn't be my first choice. I like to play fast medium and lights to hunt down slower mediums or to reposition fast.
A Phoenix Hawk or an Wolverine 6M could it be, both unreachable for an Hunchi, but with more distance firepower.
And the chance to push me against a sideline? First of all I'm not afraid to fight on a flank, with a SAVE zone in my back, and at least I'm as fast as you, if not faster and can hit your Mechs from the far.
PS: I don't know if you have much experience with the Centurion, but if you're taking requests from the comments, I'd be interested in your take.
The hunchback with lasers is my main 'trooper' mech. You literally cant ignore 8 medium lasers, let alone on 3 or 4 of them.
The hunchback upsets a lot of people I play with...
I think l the clans did the hunchback right. Put the ML in the CT. Than if you get in to punching distance you can still fire medium lasers.
I just think it's too weak on the defense- even more of a distraction mech then the original and easily losing arms, legs or entire torso sections to a single round of mid range focused fire from mechs, or a serious BA assault.
Ive never seen a Hunchback pull it off ever , if you want to do that bring a Saladin