Thanks for listening. If you like my content please share or subscribe to help support my channel. For more Final Fantasy episodes check out my playlist here: ruclips.net/p/PLZWhz2atvtVhKtMRler9T3-0-nhu9KX91
I completely agree, and I think his characterisation was so cleverly written to balance the heroic elements with the doof elements. Easily the most likeable character in the game.
Laguna Loire is the greatest final fantasy character with cloud being 2nd place. Laguna is a positive person despite the tragedy. That's very admirable he's able to really appreciate and love and live forward without being careless or cold.
Around 4:00 you state that Ward was rendered deaf. Ward wasn't rendered deaf. Only mute. And it wasn't from Laguna throwing him off the cliff, but from the savage attack from the near-dead Esthar soldier that knocked them all down to 1HP. It was a slash type attack, so one can reasonably assume this attack somehow cut his vocal cords. And the last word he ever uttered... was "fun".
Laguna is probably my favorite character from the entire FF series. I think it would have been a dramatically different game if Laguna were the protagonist, however. Laguna works best as an easily overlooked figure that presents a backstory to the world and plays a MASSIVE role in the development of Squall's character and plot. Without Laguna as the past image of the world, FF8 would have lost its depth. Squall works as the protagonist because he's unlikely and uninteresting WITHOUT characters like Laguna -- he's not as inherently cool as Laguna, but he does have very similar character flaws that make him easy to cheer on. If Laguna were the main character, Squall wouldn't work as well as a backing character (it would be more of a sequel, which wouldn't be as interesting).
I really loved Laguna when I played the game. I never cared for Squall or his love story with Rinoa (not that I disliked them) ..... I just didn't care as much. But the whole Laguna-Julia-Raine thing I thought was really, really sad..... I think about how Laguna went all the way to Esthar to save Ellone, couldn't be there when Raine gave birth to Squall, then had to be the President and never got to his son (until much much later).....
Yeah I love that scene, it’s so funny. The first time I played FF8 I thought it was a strange part of the game, but it’s an important scene for Seifer’s backstory too… because that ‘sorceress knight’ movie was what inspired Seifer’s dream to become a knight. This is also why Seifer holds his gunblade the same way Laguna does during the Ruby Dragon mini-game. It took me years to realise that!
Thanks for the vid!, i also look back at ff8 thinking of this characters particularly wishing a longer span of what they experienced, every bit was full of meaning...
No kidding about having to "pay attention" during Laguna sequences. Back when I first played it, I would meticulously scribble down notes of gameplay and quotes I liked, but with all the weird pop-up messages and disorienting character/location switches, I totally had no clue on what to make of it, other than... Selphie being 100% into it (Good enough for Selphie, good enough for me)
@@AlleywayJack in my opinion laguna is better then squall Laguna is a nice and fun guy who has a comradery with his friends and he always does what he thinks is right. I would be his friend if he was real. Squall is an emo kid who hates the people he works for and only fights for his GF. If he was real i would avoid him.
Laguna's proposal to Raine nods a massive suggestion to the subconscious - we know viscerally at that point how it all happened which is probably a gesture to the way Squall, aboard the garden now sailing over the past, also comes to know such things. The interesting part to this story-telling is not that Squall doesn't care about his past, rather he - cannot - care about people he never really knew.
While I enjoy your analysis, I would like to counter your argument that Laguna was putting Kiros and Ward before his love interests (mostly Raine in my stance). Reason being, after the cliff incident, Kiros was the one who went out in search of Laguna. But Laguna was happy to stay in Winhill (1. To repay the town/Raine 2. He was very attached to Raine and Ellone - she was calling him Uncle Laguna after all!) And the very last cutscene with him by Raine’s grave speaks volumes. Anyway, I agree, the 3 of them are great to watch.
Sorry this is an extremely late reply but you're absolutely right... there's definitely a reticence on Laguna's part to leave Winhill and I think Kiros even calls him out on it being about Raine when Laguna says it's because 'the town was good to me'. I think he's pretty torn during this period, he's not even admitting to himself that he wants to give up his dream of being a world-adventuring journalist and stay with Raine... the tragic twist being that he never gets to! Such a great story.
"He's deafened his best friend by throwing him off a cliff." Que? If you mean Ward, he was *mute,* and that was before Laguna threw him and Kiros off the cliff as a way of saving their lives from the constant flood of Esthar soldiers.
Vic 2.0 I think Ward as a character is generally quite reticient to speak, but there are notable instances where prior to the cliff incident he's shown to speak, example: img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091103022745/finalfantasy/images/6/6f/Deling_city_fountain.jpg
Just Rue Nonetheless, I really enjoyed these videos. I think I will listen to them again, in fact. I've been recording a playthrough and analysis of my own, for RUclips, and so it helps to gather insightful comments on the characters and story. Generally speaking, well done! :)
I really enjoy these three characters as a triumvirate. We see this again in FFX with Auron, Jecht and Braska. In general, a trinity of characters seems to create a compelling vibe -- their interactions are perpetually and appropriately "off" a bit (meaning they can dialogue in a 2v1, 1v1v1 or 3 united). Love that we get Laguna, Kiros and Ward like Seifer, Raijin and Fujin. I really enjoyed this little video but you could have gone deeper!
I'm hoping they make a prequel sequel featuring Ward, Kiros, and Laguna. I would love to see what the world was like during the war. Maybe in the vein of Final Fantasy Type-0 ;)
@@AlleywayJack Do you remember that "rumored" sequel Final Fantasy VIII Gaiden? It may have been just a mod but it was a pretty cool concept to follow Raijin, Fuijin, and Seifer around.
You kind of make it sound like he left both women willingly to be with his bros. He didn't exactly leave Julia, he was sent on a suicide mission by General Caraway, who wanted Julia for himself. Being a soldier, he'd be a traitor if he refused. When he managed to get back, she had already married Caraway and, I think, might have passed away already. He left Raine to look for Ellone, which I'm sure had Raine's full blessing. What always bothered me is why he didn't rush back once he'd managed to imprison Adel, not sure how long it was between that event and Raine dying... Maybe he tried to send for her but was too late already... Still, it's a gap in the story that makes it seem like he chose to be Mr. President over being with his wife and I'm not ok with that.
Fair comment and I didn't intend for it to sound like he left them both willingly, but at the same time his interactions with them that we see are quite friendly and lacks the intensity of an overt 'romance', and as you say, he lingers in Esthar and does other things that seem contrary to the sort of intense affection Squall shows for Rinoa later in the game. Not saying he doesn't love Julia/Raine, he certainly did and the ending shows that, but we're not presented with this stuff in game, mainly just his goofy opportunistic side with Kiros/Ward.
@@AlleywayJack You know, revisiting both FF7 and FF8 after so many years made me realize how much lack of structural coherence those games suffer from (far, very far from being the only ones though). There's so much that if you think about it for a second doesn't really seem to hold up, or it's hidden in some scene that if you don't use a specific character you'll miss it, or blink and you'll miss it anyway. FF8's main issue seems to be a severe lack of communication(s). Even before Adel's tomb messed up wireless systems, it's like no one ever heard of postal services... Anyway, Laguna and the bros' story was to take up half the game, but was overtime cut shorter and shorter and I guess that's why it feels rather shallow and we're left with huge gaps to fill at our own discretion. I know many players who don't particularly care about him due to his unmanliness, but only recently did I realize some truly despise him as a serial abandoner of those he's supposed to care about. It'd be kind of funny if the sweet, dorky, good natured Mr President actually had a dark side, but in his case I don't want to, never found in game evidence to support that and word of god has often reiterated that he is genuinely the nicest person. Which means we should fill in the gaps in his favor. I remember he stayed in Winhill, even after healed, because all the man had been conscripted and he wanted to give back and protect the women and children from the monsters. Didn't they have phones though? Mail? No? Didn't he have family, parents and sibling who also worried about him? In Esthar I didn't quite understand what happened, but apparently the people really wanted so much for him to help solve the post-sorceress mess that he finally agreed. No phones or mail again. And so, his tragedy was that being nice to those around him cost him both loves and a son (and step daughter in a way too). I'm pretty convinced his romance with Julia was supposed to be really deep, star crossed lovers kind of thing, because it's the over,-arc of the whole story, that their love passed on to the next generation and finally had much deserved happiness. I'm a romantic, I like that! :) OMG! I wrote a full dissertation! Sorry! But I still love this game. And Laguna. I like Laguna, ok?! :)
@@XofHope Ha! No worries, we all like Laguna. You make good points around the communications though, it's interesting that there's a highly efficient train service connecting most continents yet there's no information transfer between people.
@@AlleywayJack Come to think of it, it might actually make sense. They were in the middle of a rather vicious war, so much that most men had been conscripted into it, it's not hard to imagine how non-military communications could have been damaged and not repaired. Also, monsters everywhere would make a mailman's job extremely difficult. Then again.... Trains running perfectly. Can you actually board the train in the flashbacks? I think so, but I'm not entirely sure anymore.
@@XofHope that's a good question, I've no idea if the trains can be boarded. I know a lot of the scenarios are contained, e.g. Laguna won't exit Winhill to the world map etc, can't remember if there's a dream where we can access a station
Thanks for listening. If you like my content please share or subscribe to help support my channel. For more Final Fantasy episodes check out my playlist here:
ruclips.net/p/PLZWhz2atvtVhKtMRler9T3-0-nhu9KX91
I love Laguna because he's an enormous heroic doof.
I completely agree, and I think his characterisation was so cleverly written to balance the heroic elements with the doof elements. Easily the most likeable character in the game.
Laguna Loire is the greatest final fantasy character with cloud being 2nd place. Laguna is a positive person despite the tragedy. That's very admirable he's able to really appreciate and love and live forward without being careless or cold.
Around 4:00 you state that Ward was rendered deaf. Ward wasn't rendered deaf. Only mute. And it wasn't from Laguna throwing him off the cliff, but from the savage attack from the near-dead Esthar soldier that knocked them all down to 1HP. It was a slash type attack, so one can reasonably assume this attack somehow cut his vocal cords. And the last word he ever uttered... was "fun".
Laguna Loire is badass. should have been the main character of FF8. the only reason i go back and play FF8 again.
Laguna is probably my favorite character from the entire FF series. I think it would have been a dramatically different game if Laguna were the protagonist, however. Laguna works best as an easily overlooked figure that presents a backstory to the world and plays a MASSIVE role in the development of Squall's character and plot. Without Laguna as the past image of the world, FF8 would have lost its depth. Squall works as the protagonist because he's unlikely and uninteresting WITHOUT characters like Laguna -- he's not as inherently cool as Laguna, but he does have very similar character flaws that make him easy to cheer on. If Laguna were the main character, Squall wouldn't work as well as a backing character (it would be more of a sequel, which wouldn't be as interesting).
I really loved Laguna when I played the game. I never cared for Squall or his love story with Rinoa (not that I disliked them) ..... I just didn't care as much. But the whole Laguna-Julia-Raine thing I thought was really, really sad..... I think about how Laguna went all the way to Esthar to save Ellone, couldn't be there when Raine gave birth to Squall, then had to be the President and never got to his son (until much much later).....
Laguna always remind me of the scene where he played the gunblade knight and fought a real dragon instead of kiros and ward in a costume
Yeah I love that scene, it’s so funny. The first time I played FF8 I thought it was a strange part of the game, but it’s an important scene for Seifer’s backstory too… because that ‘sorceress knight’ movie was what inspired Seifer’s dream to become a knight. This is also why Seifer holds his gunblade the same way Laguna does during the Ruby Dragon mini-game. It took me years to realise that!
Good job researching the etymology. Very informative. Thanks for this FF8 series analysis.
Only just read this! Thanks so much for the comment, glad you liked the series.
Thanks for the vid!, i also look back at ff8 thinking of this characters particularly wishing a longer span of what they experienced, every bit was full of meaning...
Yeah it was a great story, perfectly linked together by past and present. I really love this game.
No kidding about having to "pay attention" during Laguna sequences. Back when I first played it, I would meticulously scribble down notes of gameplay and quotes I liked, but with all the weird pop-up messages and disorienting character/location switches, I totally had no clue on what to make of it, other than... Selphie being 100% into it (Good enough for Selphie, good enough for me)
Laguna is my favourate final fantasy character ever
The man with the machine gun was brilliant
Yes, great character, great soundtrack!
@@AlleywayJack in my opinion laguna is better then squall
Laguna is a nice and fun guy who has a comradery with his friends and he always does what he thinks is right. I would be his friend if he was real.
Squall is an emo kid who hates the people he works for and only fights for his GF. If he was real i would avoid him.
Laguna's proposal to Raine nods a massive suggestion to the subconscious - we know viscerally at that point how it all happened which is probably a gesture to the way Squall, aboard the garden now sailing over the past, also comes to know such things. The interesting part to this story-telling is not that Squall doesn't care about his past, rather he - cannot - care about people he never really knew.
While I enjoy your analysis, I would like to counter your argument that Laguna was putting Kiros and Ward before his love interests (mostly Raine in my stance). Reason being, after the cliff incident, Kiros was the one who went out in search of Laguna. But Laguna was happy to stay in Winhill (1. To repay the town/Raine 2. He was very attached to Raine and Ellone - she was calling him Uncle Laguna after all!) And the very last cutscene with him by Raine’s grave speaks volumes. Anyway, I agree, the 3 of them are great to watch.
Sorry this is an extremely late reply but you're absolutely right... there's definitely a reticence on Laguna's part to leave Winhill and I think Kiros even calls him out on it being about Raine when Laguna says it's because 'the town was good to me'. I think he's pretty torn during this period, he's not even admitting to himself that he wants to give up his dream of being a world-adventuring journalist and stay with Raine... the tragic twist being that he never gets to! Such a great story.
"He's deafened his best friend by throwing him off a cliff."
Que? If you mean Ward, he was *mute,* and that was before Laguna threw him and Kiros off the cliff as a way of saving their lives from the constant flood of Esthar soldiers.
Vic 2.0 I think Ward as a character is generally quite reticient to speak, but there are notable instances where prior to the cliff incident he's shown to speak, example: img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091103022745/finalfantasy/images/6/6f/Deling_city_fountain.jpg
Just Rue I didn't mean that he was mute before the entire scene, just before Laguna threw him and Kiros off the cliff.
Ohh, yes sorry I do remember that part of the game now. Wounded in the battle with Esthar soldiers. Apologies, I stand corrected on that.
Just Rue Nonetheless, I really enjoyed these videos. I think I will listen to them again, in fact. I've been recording a playthrough and analysis of my own, for RUclips, and so it helps to gather insightful comments on the characters and story. Generally speaking, well done! :)
I really enjoy these three characters as a triumvirate. We see this again in FFX with Auron, Jecht and Braska. In general, a trinity of characters seems to create a compelling vibe -- their interactions are perpetually and appropriately "off" a bit (meaning they can dialogue in a 2v1, 1v1v1 or 3 united). Love that we get Laguna, Kiros and Ward like Seifer, Raijin and Fujin. I really enjoyed this little video but you could have gone deeper!
Yes it creates a great balance. Likewise in Kingdom Hearts too.
I wish they make a game where Laguna is the main character.
A prequel would be cool
I'm hoping they make a prequel sequel featuring Ward, Kiros, and Laguna. I would love to see what the world was like during the war. Maybe in the vein of Final Fantasy Type-0 ;)
I would love a Laguna and co prequel!
@@AlleywayJack Do you remember that "rumored" sequel Final Fantasy VIII Gaiden? It may have been just a mod but it was a pretty cool concept to follow Raijin, Fuijin, and Seifer around.
@@BarryIrwinBrophy Yeah that was a cool concept. I like those three too, it's a great idea.
Laguna is also a lake and a province in the Philippines
I love laguna self sacrifice
these are really good!
Thanks Cid :)
I would argue that Kairos is an ancient Greek word and not Latin, but otherwise, I've really enjoyed these analysis videos, thanks!
Kairos is certainly greek. Love seeing it used in games like FF8 (Kiros) and WoW (Kairozdormu).
I stand fully corrected. Thanks for that!
You kind of make it sound like he left both women willingly to be with his bros. He didn't exactly leave Julia, he was sent on a suicide mission by General Caraway, who wanted Julia for himself. Being a soldier, he'd be a traitor if he refused. When he managed to get back, she had already married Caraway and, I think, might have passed away already. He left Raine to look for Ellone, which I'm sure had Raine's full blessing. What always bothered me is why he didn't rush back once he'd managed to imprison Adel, not sure how long it was between that event and Raine dying... Maybe he tried to send for her but was too late already... Still, it's a gap in the story that makes it seem like he chose to be Mr. President over being with his wife and I'm not ok with that.
Fair comment and I didn't intend for it to sound like he left them both willingly, but at the same time his interactions with them that we see are quite friendly and lacks the intensity of an overt 'romance', and as you say, he lingers in Esthar and does other things that seem contrary to the sort of intense affection Squall shows for Rinoa later in the game. Not saying he doesn't love Julia/Raine, he certainly did and the ending shows that, but we're not presented with this stuff in game, mainly just his goofy opportunistic side with Kiros/Ward.
@@AlleywayJack You know, revisiting both FF7 and FF8 after so many years made me realize how much lack of structural coherence those games suffer from (far, very far from being the only ones though). There's so much that if you think about it for a second doesn't really seem to hold up, or it's hidden in some scene that if you don't use a specific character you'll miss it, or blink and you'll miss it anyway. FF8's main issue seems to be a severe lack of communication(s). Even before Adel's tomb messed up wireless systems, it's like no one ever heard of postal services... Anyway, Laguna and the bros' story was to take up half the game, but was overtime cut shorter and shorter and I guess that's why it feels rather shallow and we're left with huge gaps to fill at our own discretion. I know many players who don't particularly care about him due to his unmanliness, but only recently did I realize some truly despise him as a serial abandoner of those he's supposed to care about. It'd be kind of funny if the sweet, dorky, good natured Mr President actually had a dark side, but in his case I don't want to, never found in game evidence to support that and word of god has often reiterated that he is genuinely the nicest person. Which means we should fill in the gaps in his favor. I remember he stayed in Winhill, even after healed, because all the man had been conscripted and he wanted to give back and protect the women and children from the monsters. Didn't they have phones though? Mail? No? Didn't he have family, parents and sibling who also worried about him? In Esthar I didn't quite understand what happened, but apparently the people really wanted so much for him to help solve the post-sorceress mess that he finally agreed. No phones or mail again. And so, his tragedy was that being nice to those around him cost him both loves and a son (and step daughter in a way too). I'm pretty convinced his romance with Julia was supposed to be really deep, star crossed lovers kind of thing, because it's the over,-arc of the whole story, that their love passed on to the next generation and finally had much deserved happiness. I'm a romantic, I like that! :)
OMG! I wrote a full dissertation! Sorry! But I still love this game. And Laguna. I like Laguna, ok?! :)
@@XofHope Ha! No worries, we all like Laguna. You make good points around the communications though, it's interesting that there's a highly efficient train service connecting most continents yet there's no information transfer between people.
@@AlleywayJack Come to think of it, it might actually make sense. They were in the middle of a rather vicious war, so much that most men had been conscripted into it, it's not hard to imagine how non-military communications could have been damaged and not repaired. Also, monsters everywhere would make a mailman's job extremely difficult. Then again.... Trains running perfectly. Can you actually board the train in the flashbacks? I think so, but I'm not entirely sure anymore.
@@XofHope that's a good question, I've no idea if the trains can be boarded. I know a lot of the scenarios are contained, e.g. Laguna won't exit Winhill to the world map etc, can't remember if there's a dream where we can access a station
they were all mad gay for eachother and I am livinnnnnnnnnnggg for it
LMAO!!!
Any Easy Allies fans studying this?