If Kek's weapon is the weapon of an old Dwarvern hero why not have the demon be an adversary of his hero who has sworn vengeance against the weapon instead of the wielder?
Well, technically, Tiamat lives on the surface layer (Avernus) of the Nine Hells, so, what if the giant slaying property that was added to the maul, was stolen from an item in her own personal horde.. and she noticed.
Just as a note for DMs that stumble across this video even a year later: Matt's ruling on pass without a trace is just that, his ruling. And though ruling that way is useful in the moment, after the session it makes no sense to keep it that way. The spell pass without a trace let's you do exactly that...pass without a trace. This means you no longer leave tracks, so you cant be tracked. You can certainly be sensed. If something can pinpoint your current location, you're screwed. I think the confusion comes from the other side of the ability and the reason everyone with access to it casts it all the timen the +10 to stealth checks.
Exactly. Though, even in the streamed sessions, I noticed Lars seeming to use it like some sort of catch-all stealth ability. Which it isn't as far as I can recall
Andrea Carenzi i agree. It didn’t work that way against the purple worms tremor sense. Why would it work that way now? It adds +10 to stealth. The character leaves no trace of having been there before should some one come by later and try to find them. That’s it. Matt’s ruling is his own. His house his rules. That’s the great thing about the rules. They are guidelines and not hard and fast. But, they should be consistent within your campaign and your world.
For the record, the Campaign Diaries aren't the same as RTG. But as Matt has always touted, they are also filled with great advice, plus incredibly relevant examples!
+Matthew Colville Thanks for touching on the more intimate aspects of your DMing experience (regarding the players claiming theyd rather quit than make a new Character)! very cool to address this topic, does not really get addressed in a lot of content and its actually incredibly central to the experience!
A succubus/incubus is always my go to with the devil card. Make them follow this cleric, shape change into female dwarves in different towns. Seduce him, make him question his god (or try to atleast). See how far he will fall before he figures out something is wrong.
+Matthew Colville I actually have another version that may work more in your favor. Same gist but use a different player or multiple. Use them as a way to ignite tension with his dwarf PC. And if/when the dwarf PC is alone, angry at his fellow party members, that is when the demon will attack him.
Use the Matt Mercer method of dealing with overplaning. Basically boils down to "what are you doing?" If they don't have an answer in short order, they don't do anything. No discussion by committee, you tell me what your action is or you stand there thinking. A round is only 6 seconds so nothing should take overly long. I think he has a video about it someplace, but the idea and execution of it works pretty well.
@@trequor I agree trequor. Particularly, in my game we use Rolemaster, which is skill intensive and a layer physically NEEDS a few moments to look up their skill and then roll. I do nudge the speed along for the decision of what to do, but I am not harsh in the look-up and roll timing.
Idea for Emnity: The Hammer of the Lawgiver has awoken and somewhere a giant-sized Demon of Chaos has awoken as well, desperate and hungry for revenge. Perhaps it wields the Sword of the Oathbreaker. Perhaps it is related to the Demon-sire of the Duregar as well. Bring this knowledge to him in the form of dreams that STEAL his experience, as if the spirit of the Lawgiver's Hammer is struggling to turn Kek the Warpriest into an ancient warrior like Krazelov Oathblood, Hammer of the Lawgiver. The experience drain will only stop when Kek can find some way of reconciling himself with the newly awakened destiny of the Hammer. Which might actually be represented by instantly gaining a level of some class to make his delayed level 6 worth it.
I think it's pretty easy, but once you've been doing it for a while you start trying to do more ambitious things and I'm at a point right now where I feel like "Oh I can do anything." Alas, this is not the case. :D I sometimes bite off more than I can chew. But thank god! Otherwise we'd have nothing to talk about!
True, but what I really wanted to say is: I only played a couple of sessions and then started DMing, we had about 10 sessions and I feel like in every session I am more prepared than the last, but every session I also find something I can do better at. It's both crazy and exciting to think that even amazing DMs, such as yourself who has been doing this for decades, still have room to improve. The struggle to be a better DM never ends, I guess. But oh boy, I do love that a lot. Cheers form Brazil btw
I think a really great way to play the enmity of a powerful demon is to give the player something. The deck has stolen some magic item and given it to the player or siphoned off a portion of a demon's power to enchant the player. Maybe the character doesn't know about it right away or maybe they can't benefit from it right away for some reason. But I think it should probably be something that benefits the player that they can learn to use, and the demon wants it back. That turns it from something that may be seen as solely bad to another challenge the players can overcome to get or keep a reward.
The card could have had the true name of the Devil on it and the Devil was searching for that deck to eliminate the last trace of his name from existence. The player wouldn't know what Devil the name pertained to but the devil knows someone knows the name.
Re: demonic enmity - How about the PC is / has been fated to slay this demon, and the card means the demon's learned about this and is now trying to slay him BEFORE he becomes powerful enough to challenge him.
I honestly wasn't expecting the two groups to want to return to their own "homeland" campaigns. I thought, just like you, that this was an amazing idea to bring two groups together. I was actually thinking of doing something similiar between two 2player groups that use the same setting for a campaign. But I think ill put it off, or at least discuss it prior and get some consent.
I love how the split was between the group that had dealt with nobility (if memory serves) before and plays a more "mature" (for lack of a better word) playstyle. Whereas the other group plays a more traditional dungeon oriented play targeted towards loot and rewards that can brute force.
I was literally thinking about your campaign diary and was so happy to see one! Matt, you're the greatest. And I shamefully stole your Dragonborn voice for my own Dragonborns.
I can imagine the FBI going through your text messages (for whatever reason) between you and Phil and thinking "wtf?" at the sight of "I have failed my owner" 🤣
Hahaha! Thank you so much Matthew for this amazing video (as usual). I really had a blast watching your face as you told us about this player not wanting to play anymore if his character died, that was totally the face I did several times when I heard such thing (among others) from some of my players. Also, that sounded very sincere and honest from you, thanks for that. I however think this player is right to express his feelings, however selfish/wrong they seemed to you. Sure, this is never nice to hear but at least he/she as been blunt honest with you. What happens at a rpg table is a strange thing, full of passion, emotion, not always rational...but if it's your player's feeling, maybe we have, as GM, to listen to it? You were the one (bless you for that) to remind me that the main purpose of a session wasn't about the scenario, the adventure, the world we create (even if they matter a lot) but in the player's enjoyment. All your player said was that he/she was so into his/her character that he/she would feel terrible if that character was to die. This is an immense compliment to you and what you have created, the fun you provide but also the attachment of said player to this character. A character's death is nothing to trifle with in my opinion, it is important to a player, very important and any bad stuff that happens to their character is felt full force by their player. It's not childish, it's not trivial, it's the mere mechanism that makes this hobby a bit more than any other game I've experienced and, again in my opinion, should be respected. Just my two cents in the matter. Thanks for the video, it's great to have you back. I can't wait for the next one! Best regards.
The Fiendish Collector, watching the tapestry of the world from the hells he searches for rarities, and oddities. The Deck of Many things, like a bright beacon illuminated Kek when he drew the fiend, bringing his possessions to the attention of the Fiendish Collector. Perhaps have him stalk and hunt them, and generally be a menace, I think. Could potentially weave in some politics of other demons that are perhaps hunting the collector himself. Since when he begins hunting, he can also be hunted - as he is sure to have given people grudges from his "Collecting". That was kind of the first thing that came to mind off the top of my head. Maybe it'll be useful? I don't know.
The way I prevent metagaming in a battle, is only allowing the player on turn to talk. She can ask a question if she wants (in character basically), but she will only get an answer when others speak in their turn. That limits coordination, but makes communication part of the challenge.
Matt, I really appreciate how honest you are about the struggles of running a game. I've been DMIng for about six years now, and I'm learning a ton from your videos.
Re: 39:00 To be honest, the Underdark isn't an attractive campaign setting for a lot of players. It's probably not a personal failure. It's just a very niche setting, and a lot of players like more traditional settings. It's also not an ideal setting for a lot of types of PCs you could conceive. So some players will make a character concept that works in a traditional surface campaign, but is completely blown up in the Underdark. An easy example would be a character who has social skills, and suddenly is in a place where they don't speak any of the languages, now they're basically a spectator at the part of the game they wanted to enjoy.
Nice to have you back, Matt. Sorry that the past few sessions haven't gone well but it sounds like you have figured out a good course of action. Looking forward to hearing more of the campaign as it goes.
I love this video. Thanks for talking about the problems with your groups, Matt. Every time my group has a problem, I feel like I don't understand something about the game and DMing seems impossible. But seeing that you are trying so many different things to try and fix what has become knotted is encouraging. Back into the fray!
This is the first time I've ever heard another author/content producer talk about the Belgariad/Mallorean, and that's awesome, great call back to when I first got into fantasy!
For the demon from the deck of many things, (I'm going to fudge and use a devil but..) you could have a succubus (in disguise) tempt him to do dark and evil things (maybe even after getting his trust through lies or feigned good). Not just kiss him to death at the first meeting but really mess with him over a longer period of time and maybe charm him into action or to make him unwittingly do wrong (under false pretense). It could be a good way to make internal conflict w/ him doubting his actions and make good RP moments in general. Anyways thanks so much for the video Matt! always a pleasure to watch and learn! have a good day!
So we had the "death talk" before starting our campaign and I think most of our players are more aligned with your odd man out. The players have crafted he hero they want to play, and for most people, anything else would be less exciting to play. Thankfully, I think 5e caters to this mindset and provides ways to potentially come back from death. We've also instated a story point system, where players are awarded points for doing really great roleplaying actions. They can then spend these points to aid them in doing anything from a roleplaying perspective. Often they're used to narrowly escape death and mitigate a potentially deadly moment. They're capped at 3 points, and are awarded fairly rarely, but it gives everyone a potential way to keep playing. Of course, it's still possible to die but there's a greater possibility that people can continue playing the hero they've dedicated so much to.
Might as well get two birds with one stone - Deck of Many Things makes a devil come to mess with and potentially claim that Portable Hole magic item that was his at some point. That depends on how your party acquired the item originally, though.
In order to cut down the metagame strat-talk I give my players a timer of approximately 30 seconds per action, or about a minute per turn. It makes combat faster and makes the players have to go on their toes. Out of combat there is none, but as soon as combat starts, I get the timer going.
I just bought a 30 second sand timer for exactly this purpose! I've long enjoyed tactical, wargamey combat but with a group this large, I think we're going to try and emphasize how hectic and chaotic combat is and should be. As long as I'm held to the same constraint, and the players understand the context for it, I think we'll be good.
The meta-gaming is an advantage you could be able to gain with magic or psionics that allow the party to have gestalt mentality in combat or give them a little more time on the timer if they specifically trained together to fight as a group.
Brendan McAuliffe I believe there's actually rules in 3.5e (the version we are currently playing on) in regard to group training for benefits. I think it's like train 2 weeks together as a group for a benefit if you all are working together.
Thank you for this Matt! This is excellent insight into the game and great for someone like me who only started DMing a few months ago. Seeing how even an experienced DM makes mistakes, and then, more importantly, how you resolve them is both interesting and helpful :)
Loved listening to this. Really appreciate you describing in detail all the difficulties you had, and even making it clear that i took a while to resolve them all. If/when I encounter a similar mis-alignment in my DMing someday, it will help for me to keep perspective that some things can't be sorted out in a couple minutes -- and that that's okay.
Nice. I do the exact same thing, customize published material to fit my vision. Usually about half an adventure gets adjusted when I use a book adventure, and add stuff I've made up before, or throw in elements from other adventures. You always end up with something unique and well put together
Been watching the campaign diary for three days. inspired me to find my own campaign, found a comic book shop and I'm playing for the first time this Wednesday!!!!
I think it's more interesting if the devil is the enemy of the warlock's patron. He can send minions against the party's stronghold, try to foil the patron's plan for the warlock, or at some point try to tempt the warlock to switch allegiance and turn against the patron.
Pass without trace is beaten by Voidsense with is beaten by cloud mind, or cloud mind mass (vanish for you psionic types), which is beaten by detect Magic/psionic, which can be beaten by a number of Spells/Psionic abilities that allow them to hide their abilities, or jam other's psionic abilities. Been in a game with a Gnomish rouge, and a dragon born who love to play hide and go seek. This is something I've done a little bit of research into.
Thank you so much! Good to know that even one of the best DM's I have seen, is after all human! Makes me feel better knowing that I am not the only one who makes mistakes! I have made several mistakes teaching my wife to play and it has taken a month to sort it out. The first step was to admit that I was wrong and made a mistake.
Thumbs up for the mention of Relg from the Belgariad :D Edit: and the suggestions about Kek's new enemy being some enemy of Zerok/Ceroc (sp) who's now noticed their old foe's weapon having been taken up by a new wielder sound pretty good to me. New developments building off stuff that's already in place.
Mammon, The Archdevil of Greed (is in Tome of Beasts 5E by Kobold Press) maybe is intrinsically linked to the deck since one reason to risk using that item is of course greed. Mammon commands all sorts of fun things like treasure golems and can petrify players into gold etc. Instead of angering Mammon maybe the card sort of picks the player as a host for Mammon to channel his greed across the planes and progressively make the character more and more greedy.
Good to see ya Matt! This is the first new video you've posted since I subbed a couple of days ago. I'm still working through the rest of the diary (made it to the last half hour or so of Diary 08, your solo run with the half-dwarf who escapes the underdark) hope to finish soon. They make good listening while going about daily chores and crap. Thanks for doing the videos, and I'll make it a point to look up your books next time I get a chance to tackle a novel! Currently all my free time (which isn't much, I'm a stay at home dad with two young preschool kids) is devoted to managing a 5th ed. Eberron campaign I just got started with a group of new players. In fact, I found your channel while digging for D&D resources online. Keep up the good work buck-o!
I love your comment on meta gaming, we just started to address this last session. Our new rule is that you can only communicate what you're doing on your turn. You shouldn't know if someone is going to move somewhere or cast a spell, unless they can tell you. I think it'll really begin to speed up combat and give everyone a chance to shine. Obviously it'll make combat harder, but I think it'll be more exciting.
I've slowly been catching up, watching all of your stuff. just wanted to let you know that it's great and you've made me much more comfortable to be my groups first DM.
Wow - love these. Your hubris confession was right in the feels - I think all DMs end up there at some point. :) I swear this is sometimes like group therapy - DMs going to DMs for support. "No one else understands me!" :) Each time sessions break down, it's so unique based on individual circumstance but usually rooted in such common (human) psychology and communication. Thanks for sharing - I always appreciate the time you put into these. Off to read Thief.
More videos, I love your videos. Really enjoy the way your videos are narrated. Maybe you could do a story time series, telling about random memorable encounters in D&D. I am brand new to the D&D world, age 20, just bought all the essentials and got writing (as i have always been into writing since childhood) and I get a lot of inspiration from stories you tell about your games. Love the videos, keep up the awesome work
When you introduced Koranan(?) all i could think of was Relg so I'm so glad you brought him up. Also if this wasn't confirmed for you by now, yes he is presented in the Belgariad
First, I'm so happy to see a deck of many things. My players absolutely love it and it has created some very cool story moments. I think it gets a bad reputation, and I really like the way you decided to do it. The rogue in my party recently drew the devil card. He's playing the stereotypical charlatan who tries to pick up women in bars etc. I decided that the devil he would gain the enmity of was Glasya, the Archduchess of the 6th layer of hell and the queen of lust. Rather than have her hate him, I decided to have her fall in love with him. She still delights in his suffering, but for other reasons, and now also sees the rest of the party as obstacles to her obtaining him as a less than willing consort. This set her up as a recurring villain and allows me to send Succubi, Incubi, and Erinyes after the party. It has made my rogue think very hard and question his normal practices, causing him to grow as a character, which I love. There are many archdevils and I think they can make really cool recurring villains. There is basically one for any kind of character and can be chosen to directly oppose or take advantage of your characters for some cool moments.
Matt, if the portable hole becomes too much of an issue, introduce a bag of holding. If you enter a portable hole with a bag of holding bad things happen, including destruction of both bag of holding and the portable hole. Food for thought.
pass without trace has a very specific use and does not, in any way, stop a creature from seeing or detecting them with its senses. (blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, touchsight, etc) if you want to keep running with pass without trace's effect on those senses, i'd suggest to allow it to give a certain bonus to his stealth vs certain (passive?) perception rolls.
Late to the party but loved the video. Glad to see you share the hurdles and the triumphs of your DMing. I also salute you for letting a reoccurring villain die when your PC's outsmarted him. I've played several games where the DM had pet NPCs that couldn't die. As for too many magic items in the group perhaps introduce a monster like Warhammer Fantasy's Cygor. This monster can only see the presence of magic and is blind to all other things in the world. So, it likes to eat mages. Maybe a creature like this lives in the Underdark and the more magic items a player has on them the more visible it is to this hunter. It's not tracking the player per say it's tracking their items. Perhaps it even has no interest in the players and as soon as it grabs them it simply goes about picking off their magic items to feed on the magic in them removing the magic properties or drag the items back to it's lair. In my first game of running Rogue Trader I let a PC have a stormbolter ... that was a frustrating game breaking item.
What I do to stop strategy talk at the table: Everything you say is In character, so you can't really have a tactics discussion without sharing these tactics with the enemy, it also adds a tactical advantage to sharing languages. Additionally I usually allow each character 10 secs of speech if they take too long I just say "That's enough speaking for now, you gotta act." Everything is resolved quickly and adds a layer of strategy and drama to combat
Creating new characters sounds like a good solution. I get the desire to just bring the two groups together and have them blend, but I can see how the different power levels and just how the campaigns have gone would create friction. Also nice that after the underdark wraps up, you'll re-visit the departing characters, so those three aren't just losing their characters. Oh man, "If my character dies, I'm done". I'd never expect to hear that from my old group of experienced gamers, but I could see one of my current group saying it (although probably not after I took them into two false starts last year). I think I'd have the same reaction you did, of feeling like the game was being held hostage. Maybe part of it is I'm used to changing through campaigns and characters, and I have a love for mechanics, so even character death means a chance to try out a new idea. I don't play to kill the characters (I've told my group if I wanted to kill them, I could just pull the red dragon mini off the shelf), but I think the game needs that chance of death and failure.
One of the many things I love about the Matt Colville videos is the references to all the cool books, movies, pop culture. Of COURSE you've read the Belgariad. . . I was thinking of Relg when you'd told the story last episode. . . Have you read Mordant's Need? I think you'd really enjoy that "series" really it's only two books - WAY worth the read.
I know I'm very late to the party (I only discovered your channel recently), but I thought I'd chime in. The issue you raised with meta-gaming struck a chord with me. I'm also a long-time player (starting back in the late 80's), and the only real exception is that we mostly play a house variant of Runequest (or 'Red Box' D&D when we feel nostalgic). We have a Monday night game that has continued almost unbroken since '91 or thereabouts) Anyway, back to meta-gaming, my players would often second-guess other players actions, and argue for and against everyone else's actions. Every turn ended up as a mini court room with everyone arguing their case. So, the net result was very similar to what you described. I found (what I considered to be) a very elegant solution to it, that also enhanced role-playing: the players are simply not allowed to discuss or meta-game at all!. If they want other characters to act or do something, they must role-play it out, and I limit those instructions to things that can be said while fighting. The result is that the battlefields are now 'noisy' (and hence more realistic, in my opinion) with characters screaming instructions at each other (on their initiatives), and the leaders naturally being better followed. And, as a bonus, they now role-play their characters (screaming "wait up!" "Duck!" "Go for the wizard!" etc.)
I've been there myself, more times than I would like to admit. I have had to end games because I wasn't able to resolve things in a satisfactory way. Trying to merge groups rarely works, making new characters should work. As for the anti-climactic battle... more often than not, I feel a battle was a little too easy or over too quickly, while the players are all pleased. So I take it as a success, and try to make notes for the future. I hope your group meshes well and is able to press forward in fun & folly.
To me having a devil after you literally means having it after your soul. For no other reason than it is a devil and it is evil. It helps a lot that Kek is a cleric and that could add some drama. If I were to create this devil it would be less of a crazed beast constantly hunting him but more of a conniving and intelligent devil. Something that show up in the mundane world, hate Kek, and then go about amassing power to destroy him. But that's just what i would do. I'm sure what ever you come up with will be awesome Matt! Love your videos man!
I was thinking of a clever way to use an enemy that is thrust upon them that enjoys torture. So what if you give them an ally, who helps them occasionally, but for some reason, though they travel unspotted some enemies know they are coming because their ally is actually the demon who is after him and is toying with him for fun. Or something along those lines, just thought it would be neat.
Its nice to see you struggle with many different types of players. Your different type of players video was great and to see it applicable in your game is interesting. This is of course usually the largest source of struggle for new DMs in my opinion.
If you weren't already doing more significant stuff to reset the party dynamic, there is always the classic way to get rid of a portable hole: put them in a situation where they might accidentally put a bag of holding into the portable hole or accidentally enter another pocket-dimension space like a tent of luxury or something. At least in older editions putting a pocket dimension in a pocket dimension = the collapse of both pocket dimensions in a big explosion. If it was worked in well it would be a fun way to introduce them to that bit of trivia. As long as you give them ways to spot it and circumvent it, and don't try to cheaply pull the same trick again if they manage to foil it, it can be a cool moment with the POTENTIAL to get rid of the portable hole without being unfair.
Funny enough, I realize I haven't properly watched all these campaign diaries, so I now realize there's some Matt Colville content I've been missing out on. So it's really interesting to hear you talking about this issue you had at the table like this cause it is clear that not only were there a lot of lessons to be had here. The one bit that really got me was the player who said they weren't going to make a new character if they died. I haven't, as a GM at the very least, come across that. Though I had an incident where a fellow player died in PF1e and he basically declared he wasn't rolling up a new character and that we'd have to go out of our way to resurrect him. Which we did, but suffice to say this was a major inconvenience to us along with not being worth it once all was said an done. Honestly, I am surprised you didn't do a dedicated video that essentially talked to both GM's and players about the fact that character can die in these games. I know you've done videos on campaign lethality, "Let's Kill A Player", and so forth, but honestly it'd been nice to have had a video on the topic of just player expectations about character death. But of course that does fall into "Talk to your GM/Players" but still. At least, I think it'd make good content
The devil card feels like a whole adventure in a can, which can be a good or bad thing depending on your game. It boils down, I think, to giving the demon something that isn't "the card made me do it". I haven't thought this through in it's entirety, but here's how I'd run it. "The image on the card swirls and shifts, becoming almost real, like a window into another world. Within you see (describe your demon going about it's demonly business) when one of it's eyes begins to glow a brilliant white light. With an agonized howl and a flash of light the demon's eye is ripped from it's skull and floats toward you through the card, burying itself painfully into your chest. The demon charges after it's lost eye, howling in rage as it thrusts it's claw toward you... and the card vanishes from your hand." The demon's eye is effectively grafted onto the PC's heart, and the only way to remove it is to kill the PC... a small price to pay for a demon that wants to be whole again. The demon can visit the player in their dreams, and imply heavily that it can see them while they sleep. Depending on how your world handles demons, it may need to convince creatures on the material plane to do it's bidding or perform a ritual to summon it... or it might just swoop into the material plane and make it's attempt when it's least convenient for the party, all depending on how much of a distraction you want this demon to be... either way, neither of them will find peace until the other is dead.
I had made a harsh comment on one of the playthrough videos a week or two ago. Looking back, I think it has a lot to do with the regimentation instilled in me through LARPing for the separation between character and player, and the harshness with which metagaming was treated. I have imported that kind of... ethos? into my TTRPGs with a lot less harshness. The only harshness now is for one player who buries their attention in their phone when they are not active, and we have to repeat their character name to get their attention when they have an action. - - - That frustration bleeds over when I see other players not meeting my personal standards or what roleplay is, and I apologize to you and to any of your players I offended.
I am enjoying these videos! Sometimes talking to the players about issues can help, but I also find that often just playing more and hanging out more solves a lot of problems that tend to annoy me as a DM. Some issues that seemed really annoying one time just seem a lot less important a few sessions down the line. YMMV :)
I love the Deck of Many Things. But I like changing what the cards do. I want to work up a 52 card deck then split it into red (good ) cards and black (bad cards) Shuffle each stack and then deal the deck found by dealing had the cards from each.
Not to sound like an old gamer, but Blingdenstone has been around about as long as the Forgotten Realms has had the Underdark. I know the Menzobarranzen (spelling may be off) box set from the '90s (or late '80s) mentions it, as do the earliest Drizzt novels. Can't remember if earlier products mention that city, but it wasn't destroyed until a later edition of D&D. Never really thought of the city being named after "bling" since I feel like it might have come before that bit of slang. It's possible I was just a super geek and learned about the deep gnome city before the slang. :)
o.O Ive never heard anyone say they'd stop playing if their character got killed. Except of course for people who thought that's how the game worked and didn't know they could just make a new character and keep playing. And in those cases, explaining it to them resulted in "Oh, I didn't know I could do that. Never mind then!"
Yay, Eddings references! Also, I feel like if there were ever a creature whose attacks should steal levels, it should be Mind Flayers. What are levels, after all, if not the accumulated experience of an adventurer, and here is a creature who attacks the mind - the memories - of any foe it encounters, so as it mind blasts you, you forget the spells you've learned, you forget the lessons and drills of weapon masters, you forget your past successes. The problem here is that this can make them TERRIBLE foes for anyone encountering them, and maybe needs to be tweaked in a way so that those lost levels can be easily recovered, or the attack comes up only once in a while.
My go to demon/devil is a Contract Devil. There are so many ideas and rewards to having players quest and plot to get out a contract, or use their minds to find loopholes in a contract. Basically in my mind it would go down like a deal with a stranger, that holds unusual sway with the player, and then its learned the stranger is this mighty demon who wills the player to do tasks for him till the contract is done. And the best part?, the demon would absolutely have unique or strange followers or slaves through his contracts. Just my take on it.
About the “enmity of a powerful demon” : could be Kostchtchie, the demon lord of frost giants, who’s not happy that this maul of giant slaying is up in the world. Benefit/drawback simple link. Probably too late, ;)
Maybe the portable hole should show some wear. Or maybe everyone that was inside the hole shows some kind of sign that it's affecting them, like maybe a finger disappears for a moment. Thanks for sharing. Loved the books can't wait for the next.
I'd go with the first option, telling the players that the portable hole is starting to show wear and that if they have to make a STR check in order to get out of the hole themselves, there's a possibility that it would rip. I don't think I'd spell out exactly what the consequences of that would be. I'd probably just have all of the contents spill out onto the floor and the the hole be destroyed, but leaving open the possibility that they and all of their stash would be jettisoned into some demiplane should be enough to make them use that thing carefully.
I don't know if it is restricted to demon and devil or if it is all outsiders, but here are some thoughts. *Orcus* - You've already mentioned him once and gives the options to throw some pre-made adventures in the mix such as my three personal favorites of "Blood Stone Pass", "The Great Modron March", and "Dead Gods" *Glyphimhor* - The famed "double Balor" allows for all of the above without having to deal with a demon prince. *Random Modron* - This is more for comedic value than anything else and would work much better on the planes. You could never be sure any time you encounter one of these guys if it was going to ignore you as most would, or eat your face. *Akin, the Friendly Fiend* - I love this guy, probably due to my DM giving him such personality, but this fiend who everyone is wary of yet no one seems to have been wronged by him would make a great story. The down side? Just like all on this list, some maneuvering has to be done to have planar creatures interact with characters on the Prime. But if anyone could arrange it, it would be Akin... and the people he sent would probably be glad to do it... especially evil ones for a chance to get the Eye of Vecna.
Your discussion about "tactical table talk" as I call it happens all the time for our group. I think you have to remind your players often, if that is something that comes a lot for your players, that everyone should just run their own character and what to do next should not be up for discussion from one turn to the next. I think that an IN CHARACTER discussion after a battle about tactics can be an ok solution, so long as it doesnt get angry and doesnt drag on too long. Now of course actually doing that as the DM is harder then just saying it as I did just now...
I may not be following things precisely, but I believe that you mentioned that most of everything going on is the mechanization of 'The Old Ones', whatever that means. For me, it would be natural, but perhaps not so creative to tie the Devil card to The Old Ones. I doubt at this point that Old Ones directly realize that their schemes are being tampered with by our heroes. Now that the devil card was drawn though, the Old Ones now know EXACTLY that its the party that is hindering their plans, and they should then take action to both directly and INdirectly get rid of the party, and if not get rid of the party then contain the parties actions, or to alter their plans so that any effort made by the party is negated and/or negligible. For the direct action, I think the Old Ones would send out their version of Darth Vader to confront and even potentially slay our heroes
I like building stories that tie the randomness together, so here's one with regards to the 3 card draw of the deck of many things: That combination of cards caused a measure of both Kek's soul and that of a devil to be drawn into the Maul of Zarok the Lawgiver, imbuing it with sentience. The devil now seeks to guide events in a way to shape this newly born intelligence into a tool of nefarious intent.
Ooooh, the tactical combat video sounds awesome! I just moved my campaign to roll20 (because of moving in real life) and I need to start using the battlemat over there, and I'm not used to even having one. I think that video will help me out a lot, looking forward to it.
+MatthewCollivile I think I have an answer to your demon predicament. You mentioned before that The Old ones are kind of masterminding this whole segment of the adventure, so I thought what if this part of your adventure (I.e. The great machine, night below) served a larger purpose. What if this demon that TJ has grabbed the attention of, is using The Old Ones' plot as part of their own plot to invade the prime material plane. Idk if that helps at all but I've encountered an almost hilariously similar situation and that was how I solved it. Hope this helps!
If Kek's weapon is the weapon of an old Dwarvern hero why not have the demon be an adversary of his hero who has sworn vengeance against the weapon instead of the wielder?
THAT is a good idea!
ooh that is really good
Very nice hook!!!
Hmm, I wonder if I shall hear this Ina future campaign diary
Well, technically, Tiamat lives on the surface layer (Avernus) of the Nine Hells, so, what if the giant slaying property that was added to the maul, was stolen from an item in her own personal horde.. and she noticed.
Just as a note for DMs that stumble across this video even a year later: Matt's ruling on pass without a trace is just that, his ruling. And though ruling that way is useful in the moment, after the session it makes no sense to keep it that way. The spell pass without a trace let's you do exactly that...pass without a trace. This means you no longer leave tracks, so you cant be tracked. You can certainly be sensed. If something can pinpoint your current location, you're screwed. I think the confusion comes from the other side of the ability and the reason everyone with access to it casts it all the timen the +10 to stealth checks.
Tremorsense 👌🏼
Exactly. Though, even in the streamed sessions, I noticed Lars seeming to use it like some sort of catch-all stealth ability. Which it isn't as far as I can recall
Andrea Carenzi i agree. It didn’t work that way against the purple worms tremor sense. Why would it work that way now?
It adds +10 to stealth. The character leaves no trace of having been there before should some one come by later and try to find them. That’s it.
Matt’s ruling is his own. His house his rules. That’s the great thing about the rules. They are guidelines and not hard and fast. But, they should be consistent within your campaign and your world.
Man, these older RTG videos are full of golden DM tips. I love rewatching these!
For the record, the Campaign Diaries aren't the same as RTG. But as Matt has always touted, they are also filled with great advice, plus incredibly relevant examples!
+Matthew Colville
Thanks for touching on the more intimate aspects of your DMing experience (regarding the players claiming theyd rather quit than make a new Character)! very cool to address this topic, does not really get addressed in a lot of content and its actually incredibly central to the experience!
A succubus/incubus is always my go to with the devil card. Make them follow this cleric, shape change into female dwarves in different towns. Seduce him, make him question his god (or try to atleast). See how far he will fall before he figures out something is wrong.
Oh MAN I love that idea! Not sure how to make it work with that player and his dwarf PC, but I'll think about it.
+Matthew Colville I actually have another version that may work more in your favor. Same gist but use a different player or multiple. Use them as a way to ignite tension with his dwarf PC. And if/when the dwarf PC is alone, angry at his fellow party members, that is when the demon will attack him.
That is way better than my idea
Use the Matt Mercer method of dealing with overplaning. Basically boils down to "what are you doing?" If they don't have an answer in short order, they don't do anything. No discussion by committee, you tell me what your action is or you stand there thinking. A round is only 6 seconds so nothing should take overly long.
I think he has a video about it someplace, but the idea and execution of it works pretty well.
@@trequor I agree trequor. Particularly, in my game we use Rolemaster, which is skill intensive and a layer physically NEEDS a few moments to look up their skill and then roll. I do nudge the speed along for the decision of what to do, but I am not harsh in the look-up and roll timing.
Idea for Emnity: The Hammer of the Lawgiver has awoken and somewhere a giant-sized Demon of Chaos has awoken as well, desperate and hungry for revenge. Perhaps it wields the Sword of the Oathbreaker. Perhaps it is related to the Demon-sire of the Duregar as well. Bring this knowledge to him in the form of dreams that STEAL his experience, as if the spirit of the Lawgiver's Hammer is struggling to turn Kek the Warpriest into an ancient warrior like Krazelov Oathblood, Hammer of the Lawgiver. The experience drain will only stop when Kek can find some way of reconciling himself with the newly awakened destiny of the Hammer. Which might actually be represented by instantly gaining a level of some class to make his delayed level 6 worth it.
DMing is hard
I think it's pretty easy, but once you've been doing it for a while you start trying to do more ambitious things and I'm at a point right now where I feel like "Oh I can do anything."
Alas, this is not the case. :D I sometimes bite off more than I can chew. But thank god! Otherwise we'd have nothing to talk about!
True, but what I really wanted to say is: I only played a couple of sessions and then started DMing, we had about 10 sessions and I feel like in every session I am more prepared than the last, but every session I also find something I can do better at. It's both crazy and exciting to think that even amazing DMs, such as yourself who has been doing this for decades, still have room to improve.
The struggle to be a better DM never ends, I guess. But oh boy, I do love that a lot.
Cheers form Brazil btw
@@CoffeeWeapon a DM lives and learns at the table
**pause whatever im doing**
holy shit matt colville uploaded a new video!!
**hits youtube so fast i have to rely on autocorrect to get me there**
If ever you decide to sell t-shirts "I am a river to my- you get it" would be a fun one
A fucking hour? *screams FUCK YEAH to the window on to the brazilian country side*
I think a really great way to play the enmity of a powerful demon is to give the player something. The deck has stolen some magic item and given it to the player or siphoned off a portion of a demon's power to enchant the player. Maybe the character doesn't know about it right away or maybe they can't benefit from it right away for some reason. But I think it should probably be something that benefits the player that they can learn to use, and the demon wants it back. That turns it from something that may be seen as solely bad to another challenge the players can overcome to get or keep a reward.
This sounds like a great idea, even moreso if the item is cursed so it can't be removed.
Wow, sorry to hear things have been not so good, but I'm glad to hear that you have a solution in mind and the players have bought in.
The Devil... ooooooh. If you want to be a dick, you can make that be the Warlocks Patron. But I would be stumped as well and ask reddit for ideas.
the Warlock's patron is a Great Old One. So that wouldn't work, but a fun idea!
Maybe the Demon is a servant of Bathalomog as well.
The card could have had the true name of the Devil on it and the Devil was searching for that deck to eliminate the last trace of his name from existence. The player wouldn't know what Devil the name pertained to but the devil knows someone knows the name.
+Chris Smith that's not bad, maybe jealousy among "siblings" ;) as a motive?
Re: demonic enmity -
How about the PC is / has been fated to slay this demon, and the card means the demon's learned about this and is now trying to slay him BEFORE he becomes powerful enough to challenge him.
I honestly wasn't expecting the two groups to want to return to their own "homeland" campaigns. I thought, just like you, that this was an amazing idea to bring two groups together. I was actually thinking of doing something similiar between two 2player groups that use the same setting for a campaign. But I think ill put it off, or at least discuss it prior and get some consent.
I love how the split was between the group that had dealt with nobility (if memory serves) before and plays a more "mature" (for lack of a better word) playstyle.
Whereas the other group plays a more traditional dungeon oriented play targeted towards loot and rewards that can brute force.
When you uttered the words "Eye of Vecna" I almost choked on my own tongue in shock. Holy crap I wish I was one of those players.
...and then when the picture of the Intellect Devourer appeared my jaw dropped to the ground.
What if the powerful demon enmity from the deck was Graves' sponsor (Batholimogg?), not happy that he's hanging out with someone so close to a god?
well technically isn't Graves' patron a great old one? not a demon?
Maybe - Does it technically matter, if it's cool?
i don't think it really matters
yeah. Rule of Cool always wins out
I was literally thinking about your campaign diary and was so happy to see one!
Matt, you're the greatest.
And I shamefully stole your Dragonborn voice for my own Dragonborns.
I can imagine the FBI going through your text messages (for whatever reason) between you and Phil and thinking "wtf?" at the sight of "I have failed my owner" 🤣
Hahaha! Thank you so much Matthew for this amazing video (as usual). I really had a blast watching your face as you told us about this player not wanting to play anymore if his character died, that was totally the face I did several times when I heard such thing (among others) from some of my players. Also, that sounded very sincere and honest from you, thanks for that. I however think this player is right to express his feelings, however selfish/wrong they seemed to you. Sure, this is never nice to hear but at least he/she as been blunt honest with you. What happens at a rpg table is a strange thing, full of passion, emotion, not always rational...but if it's your player's feeling, maybe we have, as GM, to listen to it? You were the one (bless you for that) to remind me that the main purpose of a session wasn't about the scenario, the adventure, the world we create (even if they matter a lot) but in the player's enjoyment. All your player said was that he/she was so into his/her character that he/she would feel terrible if that character was to die. This is an immense compliment to you and what you have created, the fun you provide but also the attachment of said player to this character. A character's death is nothing to trifle with in my opinion, it is important to a player, very important and any bad stuff that happens to their character is felt full force by their player. It's not childish, it's not trivial, it's the mere mechanism that makes this hobby a bit more than any other game I've experienced and, again in my opinion, should be respected. Just my two cents in the matter. Thanks for the video, it's great to have you back. I can't wait for the next one! Best regards.
The Fiendish Collector, watching the tapestry of the world from the hells he searches for rarities, and oddities. The Deck of Many things, like a bright beacon illuminated Kek when he drew the fiend, bringing his possessions to the attention of the Fiendish Collector.
Perhaps have him stalk and hunt them, and generally be a menace, I think. Could potentially weave in some politics of other demons that are perhaps hunting the collector himself. Since when he begins hunting, he can also be hunted - as he is sure to have given people grudges from his "Collecting".
That was kind of the first thing that came to mind off the top of my head. Maybe it'll be useful? I don't know.
The way I prevent metagaming in a battle, is only allowing the player on turn to talk. She can ask a question if she wants (in character basically), but she will only get an answer when others speak in their turn. That limits coordination, but makes communication part of the challenge.
Matt, I really appreciate how honest you are about the struggles of running a game. I've been DMIng for about six years now, and I'm learning a ton from your videos.
Re: 39:00 To be honest, the Underdark isn't an attractive campaign setting for a lot of players. It's probably not a personal failure. It's just a very niche setting, and a lot of players like more traditional settings. It's also not an ideal setting for a lot of types of PCs you could conceive. So some players will make a character concept that works in a traditional surface campaign, but is completely blown up in the Underdark. An easy example would be a character who has social skills, and suddenly is in a place where they don't speak any of the languages, now they're basically a spectator at the part of the game they wanted to enjoy.
Nice to have you back, Matt. Sorry that the past few sessions haven't gone well but it sounds like you have figured out a good course of action. Looking forward to hearing more of the campaign as it goes.
I love this video. Thanks for talking about the problems with your groups, Matt. Every time my group has a problem, I feel like I don't understand something about the game and DMing seems impossible. But seeing that you are trying so many different things to try and fix what has become knotted is encouraging. Back into the fray!
This was a really great video. The second half was super insightful and interesting. I think it's a really important Matt Colville video
This is the first time I've ever heard another author/content producer talk about the Belgariad/Mallorean, and that's awesome, great call back to when I first got into fantasy!
For the demon from the deck of many things, (I'm going to fudge and use a devil but..) you could have a succubus (in disguise) tempt him to do dark and evil things (maybe even after getting his trust through lies or feigned good). Not just kiss him to death at the first meeting but really mess with him over a longer period of time and maybe charm him into action or to make him unwittingly do wrong (under false pretense). It could be a good way to make internal conflict w/ him doubting his actions and make good RP moments in general.
Anyways thanks so much for the video Matt! always a pleasure to watch and learn! have a good day!
Like Ruby did to Sam in Supernatural.
So we had the "death talk" before starting our campaign and I think most of our players are more aligned with your odd man out. The players have crafted he hero they want to play, and for most people, anything else would be less exciting to play. Thankfully, I think 5e caters to this mindset and provides ways to potentially come back from death. We've also instated a story point system, where players are awarded points for doing really great roleplaying actions. They can then spend these points to aid them in doing anything from a roleplaying perspective. Often they're used to narrowly escape death and mitigate a potentially deadly moment. They're capped at 3 points, and are awarded fairly rarely, but it gives everyone a potential way to keep playing. Of course, it's still possible to die but there's a greater possibility that people can continue playing the hero they've dedicated so much to.
Might as well get two birds with one stone - Deck of Many Things makes a devil come to mess with and potentially claim that Portable Hole magic item that was his at some point. That depends on how your party acquired the item originally, though.
Appreciated the "learn from my mistakes" video. Thank you.
In order to cut down the metagame strat-talk I give my players a timer of approximately 30 seconds per action, or about a minute per turn. It makes combat faster and makes the players have to go on their toes. Out of combat there is none, but as soon as combat starts, I get the timer going.
I just bought a 30 second sand timer for exactly this purpose!
I've long enjoyed tactical, wargamey combat but with a group this large, I think we're going to try and emphasize how hectic and chaotic combat is and should be.
As long as I'm held to the same constraint, and the players understand the context for it, I think we'll be good.
The meta-gaming is an advantage you could be able to gain with magic or psionics that allow the party to have gestalt mentality in combat or give them a little more time on the timer if they specifically trained together to fight as a group.
Brendan McAuliffe
I believe there's actually rules in 3.5e (the version we are currently playing on) in regard to group training for benefits. I think it's like train 2 weeks together as a group for a benefit if you all are working together.
That early mention of the Belgariad and Malloreon. I squee'd.
Also, that Shadow Dragon. I love those.
Thank you for this Matt! This is excellent insight into the game and great for someone like me who only started DMing a few months ago. Seeing how even an experienced DM makes mistakes, and then, more importantly, how you resolve them is both interesting and helpful :)
The master mind flayer takes the derivative of.... I love it. I'm
stealing it. I'm going to even use it in my math classes I teach.
Loved listening to this. Really appreciate you describing in detail all the difficulties you had, and even making it clear that i took a while to resolve them all. If/when I encounter a similar mis-alignment in my DMing someday, it will help for me to keep perspective that some things can't be sorted out in a couple minutes -- and that that's okay.
Nice. I do the exact same thing, customize published material to fit my vision. Usually about half an adventure gets adjusted when I use a book adventure, and add stuff I've made up before, or throw in elements from other adventures. You always end up with something unique and well put together
Been watching the campaign diary for three days. inspired me to find my own campaign, found a comic book shop and I'm playing for the first time this Wednesday!!!!
I think it's more interesting if the devil is the enemy of the warlock's patron. He can send minions against the party's stronghold, try to foil the patron's plan for the warlock, or at some point try to tempt the warlock to switch allegiance and turn against the patron.
great to see you talking about problems, because we all have the tendency to only talk about what it works!
Pass without trace is beaten by Voidsense with is beaten by cloud mind, or cloud mind mass (vanish for you psionic types), which is beaten by detect Magic/psionic, which can be beaten by a number of Spells/Psionic abilities that allow them to hide their abilities, or jam other's psionic abilities.
Been in a game with a Gnomish rouge, and a dragon born who love to play hide and go seek. This is something I've done a little bit of research into.
Thank you so much! Good to know that even one of the best DM's I have seen, is after all human! Makes me feel better knowing that I am not the only one who makes mistakes! I have made several mistakes teaching my wife to play and it has taken a month to sort it out. The first step was to admit that I was wrong and made a mistake.
" and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its passage."
Magic!
Thumbs up for the mention of Relg from the Belgariad :D
Edit: and the suggestions about Kek's new enemy being some enemy of Zerok/Ceroc (sp) who's now noticed their old foe's weapon having been taken up by a new wielder sound pretty good to me. New developments building off stuff that's already in place.
Murgo Gold, the Ulgo, all the Belgariad references in your campaign are awesome. I know which book series I'm rereading :)
Mammon, The Archdevil of Greed (is in Tome of Beasts 5E by Kobold Press) maybe is intrinsically linked to the deck since one reason to risk using that item is of course greed. Mammon commands all sorts of fun things like treasure golems and can petrify players into gold etc. Instead of angering Mammon maybe the card sort of picks the player as a host for Mammon to channel his greed across the planes and progressively make the character more and more greedy.
Good to see ya Matt! This is the first new video you've posted since I subbed a couple of days ago.
I'm still working through the rest of the diary (made it to the last half hour or so of Diary 08, your solo run with the half-dwarf who escapes the underdark) hope to finish soon. They make good listening while going about daily chores and crap.
Thanks for doing the videos, and I'll make it a point to look up your books next time I get a chance to tackle a novel! Currently all my free time (which isn't much, I'm a stay at home dad with two young preschool kids) is devoted to managing a 5th ed. Eberron campaign I just got started with a group of new players. In fact, I found your channel while digging for D&D resources online.
Keep up the good work buck-o!
I love your comment on meta gaming, we just started to address this last session. Our new rule is that you can only communicate what you're doing on your turn. You shouldn't know if someone is going to move somewhere or cast a spell, unless they can tell you. I think it'll really begin to speed up combat and give everyone a chance to shine. Obviously it'll make combat harder, but I think it'll be more exciting.
I've slowly been catching up, watching all of your stuff. just wanted to let you know that it's great and you've made me much more comfortable to be my groups first DM.
Wow - love these. Your hubris confession was right in the feels - I think all DMs end up there at some point. :)
I swear this is sometimes like group therapy - DMs going to DMs for support. "No one else understands me!" :) Each time sessions break down, it's so unique based on individual circumstance but usually rooted in such common (human) psychology and communication.
Thanks for sharing - I always appreciate the time you put into these. Off to read Thief.
More videos, I love your videos. Really enjoy the way your videos are narrated. Maybe you could do a story time series, telling about random memorable encounters in D&D. I am brand new to the D&D world, age 20, just bought all the essentials and got writing (as i have always been into writing since childhood) and I get a lot of inspiration from stories you tell about your games. Love the videos, keep up the awesome work
When you introduced Koranan(?) all i could think of was Relg so I'm so glad you brought him up. Also if this wasn't confirmed for you by now, yes he is presented in the Belgariad
First, I'm so happy to see a deck of many things. My players absolutely love it and it has created some very cool story moments. I think it gets a bad reputation, and I really like the way you decided to do it.
The rogue in my party recently drew the devil card. He's playing the stereotypical charlatan who tries to pick up women in bars etc. I decided that the devil he would gain the enmity of was Glasya, the Archduchess of the 6th layer of hell and the queen of lust. Rather than have her hate him, I decided to have her fall in love with him. She still delights in his suffering, but for other reasons, and now also sees the rest of the party as obstacles to her obtaining him as a less than willing consort. This set her up as a recurring villain and allows me to send Succubi, Incubi, and Erinyes after the party. It has made my rogue think very hard and question his normal practices, causing him to grow as a character, which I love.
There are many archdevils and I think they can make really cool recurring villains. There is basically one for any kind of character and can be chosen to directly oppose or take advantage of your characters for some cool moments.
Glad these older videos are still available. Great lessons in here. Thanks!
(P.s. My copy of Strongholds & Followers arrives next week!)
Matt, if the portable hole becomes too much of an issue, introduce a bag of holding. If you enter a portable hole with a bag of holding bad things happen, including destruction of both bag of holding and the portable hole. Food for thought.
pass without trace has a very specific use and does not, in any way, stop a creature from seeing or detecting them with its senses. (blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, touchsight, etc)
if you want to keep running with pass without trace's effect on those senses, i'd suggest to allow it to give a certain bonus to his stealth vs certain (passive?) perception rolls.
Late to the party but loved the video. Glad to see you share the hurdles and the triumphs of your DMing. I also salute you for letting a reoccurring villain die when your PC's outsmarted him. I've played several games where the DM had pet NPCs that couldn't die.
As for too many magic items in the group perhaps introduce a monster like Warhammer Fantasy's Cygor. This monster can only see the presence of magic and is blind to all other things in the world. So, it likes to eat mages. Maybe a creature like this lives in the Underdark and the more magic items a player has on them the more visible it is to this hunter. It's not tracking the player per say it's tracking their items. Perhaps it even has no interest in the players and as soon as it grabs them it simply goes about picking off their magic items to feed on the magic in them removing the magic properties or drag the items back to it's lair.
In my first game of running Rogue Trader I let a PC have a stormbolter ... that was a frustrating game breaking item.
What I do to stop strategy talk at the table: Everything you say is In character, so you can't really have a tactics discussion without sharing these tactics with the enemy, it also adds a tactical advantage to sharing languages. Additionally I usually allow each character 10 secs of speech if they take too long I just say "That's enough speaking for now, you gotta act." Everything is resolved quickly and adds a layer of strategy and drama to combat
Creating new characters sounds like a good solution. I get the desire to just bring the two groups together and have them blend, but I can see how the different power levels and just how the campaigns have gone would create friction. Also nice that after the underdark wraps up, you'll re-visit the departing characters, so those three aren't just losing their characters.
Oh man, "If my character dies, I'm done". I'd never expect to hear that from my old group of experienced gamers, but I could see one of my current group saying it (although probably not after I took them into two false starts last year). I think I'd have the same reaction you did, of feeling like the game was being held hostage. Maybe part of it is I'm used to changing through campaigns and characters, and I have a love for mechanics, so even character death means a chance to try out a new idea. I don't play to kill the characters (I've told my group if I wanted to kill them, I could just pull the red dragon mini off the shelf), but I think the game needs that chance of death and failure.
One of the many things I love about the Matt Colville videos is the references to all the cool books, movies, pop culture. Of COURSE you've read the Belgariad. . . I was thinking of Relg when you'd told the story last episode. . . Have you read Mordant's Need? I think you'd really enjoy that "series" really it's only two books - WAY worth the read.
"The Old Ones"? Are we talking H.P. Lovecraft's "Great Old Ones"??? Because that would be utterly amazing.
COLVILLES ALIVE!?
I feel you Matt. There are always dry seasons in my game. We've luckily just started getting out of one. So I hope its the same with you.
I know I'm very late to the party (I only discovered your channel recently), but I thought I'd chime in. The issue you raised with meta-gaming struck a chord with me.
I'm also a long-time player (starting back in the late 80's), and the only real exception is that we mostly play a house variant of Runequest (or 'Red Box' D&D when we feel nostalgic). We have a Monday night game that has continued almost unbroken since '91 or thereabouts)
Anyway, back to meta-gaming, my players would often second-guess other players actions, and argue for and against everyone else's actions. Every turn ended up as a mini court room with everyone arguing their case. So, the net result was very similar to what you described.
I found (what I considered to be) a very elegant solution to it, that also enhanced role-playing: the players are simply not allowed to discuss or meta-game at all!. If they want other characters to act or do something, they must role-play it out, and I limit those instructions to things that can be said while fighting.
The result is that the battlefields are now 'noisy' (and hence more realistic, in my opinion) with characters screaming instructions at each other (on their initiatives), and the leaders naturally being better followed. And, as a bonus, they now role-play their characters (screaming "wait up!" "Duck!" "Go for the wizard!" etc.)
I've been there myself, more times than I would like to admit. I have had to end games because I wasn't able to resolve things in a satisfactory way. Trying to merge groups rarely works, making new characters should work. As for the anti-climactic battle... more often than not, I feel a battle was a little too easy or over too quickly, while the players are all pleased. So I take it as a success, and try to make notes for the future. I hope your group meshes well and is able to press forward in fun & folly.
To me having a devil after you literally means having it after your soul. For no other reason than it is a devil and it is evil. It helps a lot that Kek is a cleric and that could add some drama. If I were to create this devil it would be less of a crazed beast constantly hunting him but more of a conniving and intelligent devil. Something that show up in the mundane world, hate Kek, and then go about amassing power to destroy him. But that's just what i would do. I'm sure what ever you come up with will be awesome Matt! Love your videos man!
I was thinking of a clever way to use an enemy that is thrust upon them that enjoys torture. So what if you give them an ally, who helps them occasionally, but for some reason, though they travel unspotted some enemies know they are coming because their ally is actually the demon who is after him and is toying with him for fun. Or something along those lines, just thought it would be neat.
Its nice to see you struggle with many different types of players. Your different type of players video was great and to see it applicable in your game is interesting. This is of course usually the largest source of struggle for new DMs in my opinion.
If you weren't already doing more significant stuff to reset the party dynamic, there is always the classic way to get rid of a portable hole: put them in a situation where they might accidentally put a bag of holding into the portable hole or accidentally enter another pocket-dimension space like a tent of luxury or something. At least in older editions putting a pocket dimension in a pocket dimension = the collapse of both pocket dimensions in a big explosion. If it was worked in well it would be a fun way to introduce them to that bit of trivia. As long as you give them ways to spot it and circumvent it, and don't try to cheaply pull the same trick again if they manage to foil it, it can be a cool moment with the POTENTIAL to get rid of the portable hole without being unfair.
Funny enough, I realize I haven't properly watched all these campaign diaries, so I now realize there's some Matt Colville content I've been missing out on.
So it's really interesting to hear you talking about this issue you had at the table like this cause it is clear that not only were there a lot of lessons to be had here.
The one bit that really got me was the player who said they weren't going to make a new character if they died. I haven't, as a GM at the very least, come across that. Though I had an incident where a fellow player died in PF1e and he basically declared he wasn't rolling up a new character and that we'd have to go out of our way to resurrect him. Which we did, but suffice to say this was a major inconvenience to us along with not being worth it once all was said an done.
Honestly, I am surprised you didn't do a dedicated video that essentially talked to both GM's and players about the fact that character can die in these games. I know you've done videos on campaign lethality, "Let's Kill A Player", and so forth, but honestly it'd been nice to have had a video on the topic of just player expectations about character death.
But of course that does fall into "Talk to your GM/Players" but still. At least, I think it'd make good content
This entry is especially interesting for high level DM'ing. Thanks!
Love your diary vids and the amazingly details fleshed out world you create
Wow, that was one hell of a recap! It sucks that you had those issues, but you handled it excellently by talking to your players.
Relg was in both the Belgariad and the Mallorean, though it was pretty much just a cameo or two in the Malloreon.
The devil card feels like a whole adventure in a can, which can be a good or bad thing depending on your game. It boils down, I think, to giving the demon something that isn't "the card made me do it". I haven't thought this through in it's entirety, but here's how I'd run it.
"The image on the card swirls and shifts, becoming almost real, like a window into another world. Within you see (describe your demon going about it's demonly business) when one of it's eyes begins to glow a brilliant white light. With an agonized howl and a flash of light the demon's eye is ripped from it's skull and floats toward you through the card, burying itself painfully into your chest. The demon charges after it's lost eye, howling in rage as it thrusts it's claw toward you... and the card vanishes from your hand."
The demon's eye is effectively grafted onto the PC's heart, and the only way to remove it is to kill the PC... a small price to pay for a demon that wants to be whole again. The demon can visit the player in their dreams, and imply heavily that it can see them while they sleep. Depending on how your world handles demons, it may need to convince creatures on the material plane to do it's bidding or perform a ritual to summon it... or it might just swoop into the material plane and make it's attempt when it's least convenient for the party, all depending on how much of a distraction you want this demon to be... either way, neither of them will find peace until the other is dead.
I had made a harsh comment on one of the playthrough videos a week or two ago. Looking back, I think it has a lot to do with the regimentation instilled in me through LARPing for the separation between character and player, and the harshness with which metagaming was treated. I have imported that kind of... ethos? into my TTRPGs with a lot less harshness. The only harshness now is for one player who buries their attention in their phone when they are not active, and we have to repeat their character name to get their attention when they have an action. - - - That frustration bleeds over when I see other players not meeting my personal standards or what roleplay is, and I apologize to you and to any of your players I offended.
I am enjoying these videos! Sometimes talking to the players about issues can help, but I also find that often just playing more and hanging out more solves a lot of problems that tend to annoy me as a DM. Some issues that seemed really annoying one time just seem a lot less important a few sessions down the line. YMMV :)
I love the Deck of Many Things.
But I like changing what the cards do. I want to work up a 52 card deck then split it into red (good ) cards and black (bad cards) Shuffle each stack and then deal the deck found by dealing had the cards from each.
Awesome videos. They have been helping my DMing a lot. also +1 for the Belgariad refrence.
Not to sound like an old gamer, but Blingdenstone has been around about as long as the Forgotten Realms has had the Underdark. I know the Menzobarranzen (spelling may be off) box set from the '90s (or late '80s) mentions it, as do the earliest Drizzt novels. Can't remember if earlier products mention that city, but it wasn't destroyed until a later edition of D&D. Never really thought of the city being named after "bling" since I feel like it might have come before that bit of slang. It's possible I was just a super geek and learned about the deep gnome city before the slang. :)
o.O Ive never heard anyone say they'd stop playing if their character got killed. Except of course for people who thought that's how the game worked and didn't know they could just make a new character and keep playing. And in those cases, explaining it to them resulted in "Oh, I didn't know I could do that. Never mind then!"
Wooh! Was just checking twitter and saw this! Awesome timing, super psyched to watch!
Yay, Eddings references!
Also, I feel like if there were ever a creature whose attacks should steal levels, it should be Mind Flayers. What are levels, after all, if not the accumulated experience of an adventurer, and here is a creature who attacks the mind - the memories - of any foe it encounters, so as it mind blasts you, you forget the spells you've learned, you forget the lessons and drills of weapon masters, you forget your past successes. The problem here is that this can make them TERRIBLE foes for anyone encountering them, and maybe needs to be tweaked in a way so that those lost levels can be easily recovered, or the attack comes up only once in a while.
My go to demon/devil is a Contract Devil. There are so many ideas and rewards to having players quest and plot to get out a contract, or use their minds to find loopholes in a contract. Basically in my mind it would go down like a deal with a stranger, that holds unusual sway with the player, and then its learned the stranger is this mighty demon who wills the player to do tasks for him till the contract is done. And the best part?, the demon would absolutely have unique or strange followers or slaves through his contracts. Just my take on it.
About the “enmity of a powerful demon” : could be Kostchtchie, the demon lord of frost giants, who’s
not happy that this maul of giant slaying is up in the world. Benefit/drawback simple link. Probably too late, ;)
WOW, What a campaign and adventure, very, very good so far!!
Maybe the portable hole should show some wear. Or maybe everyone that was inside the hole shows some kind of sign that it's affecting them, like maybe a finger disappears for a moment. Thanks for sharing. Loved the books can't wait for the next.
I'd go with the first option, telling the players that the portable hole is starting to show wear and that if they have to make a STR check in order to get out of the hole themselves, there's a possibility that it would rip. I don't think I'd spell out exactly what the consequences of that would be. I'd probably just have all of the contents spill out onto the floor and the the hole be destroyed, but leaving open the possibility that they and all of their stash would be jettisoned into some demiplane should be enough to make them use that thing carefully.
The Enmity of a Powerful Demon or Devil . . . sounds like a set up for the next big-bad, or at least an interesting side quest.
I don't know if it is restricted to demon and devil or if it is all outsiders, but here are some thoughts.
*Orcus* - You've already mentioned him once and gives the options to throw some pre-made adventures in the mix such as my three personal favorites of "Blood Stone Pass", "The Great Modron March", and "Dead Gods"
*Glyphimhor* - The famed "double Balor" allows for all of the above without having to deal with a demon prince.
*Random Modron* - This is more for comedic value than anything else and would work much better on the planes. You could never be sure any time you encounter one of these guys if it was going to ignore you as most would, or eat your face.
*Akin, the Friendly Fiend* - I love this guy, probably due to my DM giving him such personality, but this fiend who everyone is wary of yet no one seems to have been wronged by him would make a great story. The down side? Just like all on this list, some maneuvering has to be done to have planar creatures interact with characters on the Prime. But if anyone could arrange it, it would be Akin... and the people he sent would probably be glad to do it... especially evil ones for a chance to get the Eye of Vecna.
Your discussion about "tactical table talk" as I call it happens all the time for our group. I think you have to remind your players often, if that is something that comes a lot for your players, that everyone should just run their own character and what to do next should not be up for discussion from one turn to the next. I think that an IN CHARACTER discussion after a battle about tactics can be an ok solution, so long as it doesnt get angry and doesnt drag on too long. Now of course actually doing that as the DM is harder then just saying it as I did just now...
I may not be following things precisely, but I believe that you mentioned that most of everything going on is the mechanization of 'The Old Ones', whatever that means. For me, it would be natural, but perhaps not so creative to tie the Devil card to The Old Ones. I doubt at this point that Old Ones directly realize that their schemes are being tampered with by our heroes. Now that the devil card was drawn though, the Old Ones now know EXACTLY that its the party that is hindering their plans, and they should then take action to both directly and INdirectly get rid of the party, and if not get rid of the party then contain the parties actions, or to alter their plans so that any effort made by the party is negated and/or negligible.
For the direct action, I think the Old Ones would send out their version of Darth Vader to confront and even potentially slay our heroes
I like building stories that tie the randomness together, so here's one with regards to the 3 card draw of the deck of many things: That combination of cards caused a measure of both Kek's soul and that of a devil to be drawn into the Maul of Zarok the Lawgiver, imbuing it with sentience. The devil now seeks to guide events in a way to shape this newly born intelligence into a tool of nefarious intent.
Ooooh, the tactical combat video sounds awesome! I just moved my campaign to roll20 (because of moving in real life) and I need to start using the battlemat over there, and I'm not used to even having one. I think that video will help me out a lot, looking forward to it.
+MatthewCollivile I think I have an answer to your demon predicament. You mentioned before that The Old ones are kind of masterminding this whole segment of the adventure, so I thought what if this part of your adventure (I.e. The great machine, night below) served a larger purpose. What if this demon that TJ has grabbed the attention of, is using The Old Ones' plot as part of their own plot to invade the prime material plane. Idk if that helps at all but I've encountered an almost hilariously similar situation and that was how I solved it. Hope this helps!
Hang in there Matt! It sounds like you have "progress in motion" and things are turning around.
I hope you have a better time with your games Matt!