Here's my issue. I enter an actual race about twice a year, just for kicks. When I do, however, I'm only given the option of riding A category. Why is that? It's because I like to benchmark my progress a few times each month by racing my previous best time. up the Alpe. I've always got a recent 4w/kg+ 20 minute. time on my profile, but I rarely ride for very long over 350 watts, meaning that my top end isn't there for a race scenario. I'll happily ride for an hour or more between 280 and 320 as a hard effort, but. that's it. I. don't train the. other efforts., so my best 5 minute when I look this year is only. 375,
That's odd, you seem to be right on the threshold between A/B. It might have something to do with zwift using the Zmap metric (my understanding is any metric over 2 minutes can be included in this score). I did some looking into this, it appears the Zmap score to be considered A is above 5.1 wkg. Also riders Zmap wkg tend to be slightly above the zFTP score.
hmm i really like this point and didn't think (or have it in the pros section) about it when creating the video. Although i have not read anything that directly says this, it seems like it would be true. If a person can put out higher 20 minute power relative to a competitor, chances are they could sprint, recover better, and have more left in the tank for the next sprint segment.
@@ZwiftAnalysisNetwork Like your analyses showed, using 5 minute power to categorize riders for the 74 identified courses makes way more sense than 20 minute power categorization.
Totally depends on the race and also the rider. Some riders are strong at 5 minutes, some are strong at 20 or more, etc. So knowing your strengths and playing to them will help you a lot.
Exactly. Which is why I am saying races that arent pure climbing races like 3 sisters or Atcherban 5 minute w/kg is more relevant to the outcome than your 20 min w/kg@@lkb3rd
I expressed opinion that, they need to include factor of 1-minute power into the category enforcement formula, in several discussions. but I guess my voice never been heard. That will eliminate a lot of sandbagger (who never really put effort into 20 minute power in a race to dodge the zwift detection). If anyone can do 10 wkg for 1 minute this guy won't likely to belong in a B class.
Agreed, I know a few strong Bs that have strong sprints / 1 minute powers. They could probably manage to score points at A level in certain situations! But just my observation/opinion, I feel like sandbagging has went down a bit compared to last year
I find that too, even when we talk about like epic kom or other sections that include around 20min climb there always some plateau in between which means you can always full gas with your CP3-5 power in the start of the climb and get short rest in those plateaus. But when it comes to Alps or Ventoux you have to put serious about your ftp.
I forgot if its the forwarded or reverse Epic KOM, but one of them i always picture as 3 concurrent 5 minute climbs. I think each section is about 2.2 km and then you get a bit (of a well needed) break on the short downhills. Are you a fan of doing the alpe or Ventoux? I had a race on ventoux the other day and it was brutal!
😂, yea it's always cool to mix in one of these once a month. It lets me know how I'm improving. I always sign up for them all excited and about halfway through start questioning why I decided to race it 😂
the only thing 20 min power is good for is judging 20 min power. i suppose the higher the number, the stronger the rider. but i'd agree it is not such an important stat.
Focussing on ANY single measurement like it is the be all is what is trash. Every race and course is different, and every rider is different. That's one of the things I love about bike racing, it's 20(or more!) different things all changing at once in a race.
well said! i'm with you in what makes bike racing so exciting, so many different riders can find success based on having different areas of strength and riding different race formats or course profiles!
Thats a good question! There are a ton of races which require anywhere in between the 1 minute and 5 minute range to stick with the front group. If its a points race, I think 1 minute power is huge! As i recall many ZRL races which required it (the Richmond UCI course comes to mind).
Yeah in almost every zwift race I've been in, the top three riders on zwiftpower either have the best sprint, 1 minute or 5 minute power in the field that day. @@ZwiftAnalysisNetwork
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20-minute power is awesome!
Really nice video dude, it’s awesome seeing your videos get better and better. Outstanding progression.
Thanks! Really appreciate others noticing 😁
Someone once told me "if you cant make it to the sprint or climb, who cares how big your sprint-5min is”
My mates talk about 20 minute power too much
Here's my issue. I enter an actual race about twice a year, just for kicks. When I do, however, I'm only given the option of riding A category. Why is that? It's because I like to benchmark my progress a few times each month by racing my previous best time. up the Alpe. I've always got a recent 4w/kg+ 20 minute. time on my profile, but I rarely ride for very long over 350 watts, meaning that my top end isn't there for a race scenario. I'll happily ride for an hour or more between 280 and 320 as a hard effort, but. that's it. I. don't train the. other efforts., so my best 5 minute when I look this year is only. 375,
That's odd, you seem to be right on the threshold between A/B. It might have something to do with zwift using the Zmap metric (my understanding is any metric over 2 minutes can be included in this score).
I did some looking into this, it appears the Zmap score to be considered A is above 5.1 wkg. Also riders Zmap wkg tend to be slightly above the zFTP score.
People with a higher 20 minute power can often recover better after short attacks
hmm i really like this point and didn't think (or have it in the pros section) about it when creating the video. Although i have not read anything that directly says this, it seems like it would be true. If a person can put out higher 20 minute power relative to a competitor, chances are they could sprint, recover better, and have more left in the tank for the next sprint segment.
High LT1 helps too, while others are doing tempo on the flat you could still be in endurance zone.
5 min power seems more relevant for a lot of races that aren't just pure climbing races as opposed to 20 minute races.
yes! i think 5 minute power is critical for almost every race.
@@ZwiftAnalysisNetwork Like your analyses showed, using 5 minute power to categorize riders for the 74 identified courses makes way more sense than 20 minute power categorization.
Totally depends on the race and also the rider. Some riders are strong at 5 minutes, some are strong at 20 or more, etc. So knowing your strengths and playing to them will help you a lot.
Exactly. Which is why I am saying races that arent pure climbing races like 3 sisters or Atcherban 5 minute w/kg is more relevant to the outcome than your 20 min w/kg@@lkb3rd
I expressed opinion that, they need to include factor of 1-minute power into the category enforcement formula, in several discussions. but I guess my voice never been heard. That will eliminate a lot of sandbagger (who never really put effort into 20 minute power in a race to dodge the zwift detection). If anyone can do 10 wkg for 1 minute this guy won't likely to belong in a B class.
Agreed, I know a few strong Bs that have strong sprints / 1 minute powers. They could probably manage to score points at A level in certain situations! But just my observation/opinion, I feel like sandbagging has went down a bit compared to last year
I find that too, even when we talk about like epic kom or other sections that include around 20min climb there always some plateau in between which means you can always full gas with your CP3-5 power in the start of the climb and get short rest in those plateaus. But when it comes to Alps or Ventoux you have to put serious about your ftp.
I forgot if its the forwarded or reverse Epic KOM, but one of them i always picture as 3 concurrent 5 minute climbs. I think each section is about 2.2 km and then you get a bit (of a well needed) break on the short downhills.
Are you a fan of doing the alpe or Ventoux? I had a race on ventoux the other day and it was brutal!
I like using Alpes to test my ftp time to time but never try to race on this section because as you said its too brutal@@ZwiftAnalysisNetwork 😆
😂, yea it's always cool to mix in one of these once a month. It lets me know how I'm improving. I always sign up for them all excited and about halfway through start questioning why I decided to race it 😂
the only thing 20 min power is good for is judging 20 min power. i suppose the higher the number, the stronger the rider. but i'd agree it is not such an important stat.
Focussing on ANY single measurement like it is the be all is what is trash. Every race and course is different, and every rider is different. That's one of the things I love about bike racing, it's 20(or more!) different things all changing at once in a race.
well said! i'm with you in what makes bike racing so exciting, so many different riders can find success based on having different areas of strength and riding different race formats or course profiles!
Go Draft AB! Glad I did not race A this season!
The real question is, is 1 minute power or 5 minute power more important for winning zwift races?
Thats a good question! There are a ton of races which require anywhere in between the 1 minute and 5 minute range to stick with the front group. If its a points race, I think 1 minute power is huge! As i recall many ZRL races which required it (the Richmond UCI course comes to mind).
Yeah in almost every zwift race I've been in, the top three riders on zwiftpower either have the best sprint, 1 minute or 5 minute power in the field that day. @@ZwiftAnalysisNetwork
20min power only matters on climbs and Time trials as long as you can draft well.
It’s simple: if you can hold 3.4 w/kg for 20 min, then congratulations you are a cat B racer or a SANDBAGER 😂