Listen on the go at all podcast locations: anchor.fm/demystifysci DEMYSTICON 2024, Austin TX 4/7-8 2024: www.eventbrite.com/e/demysticon-2024-tickets-727054969987 Material solutions to quantum spookiness: www.youtube.com/@MaterialAtomics Short films @DemystifySciInvestigates: ruclips.net/channel/UCUfzVdgNu2xLThgM2qQZmSQ
People vastly underestimate the implications of This research work the ability to grow complex genetic structures just using electrical differentiation patterns will allow for in the future Wireless growth of biological microchips like neuroLink in the brain but biologically. This will allow for basically the mark of the beast without anyone's consent...
I am so so so so happy you re talking with Michael. In the chaos and noise of desperate arrogant greedy people, this man and his collaborators will help humanity tremendously. Thank you!
Love that you have Dr. Levin on to provide an update. I can listen to him for hours with his incredible ability to absorb massive amounts of content and then articulate a vision that makes sense of it all to plot a path forward. Inspiring.
@@anthonybrettif they prove and then perfect their technology this will completely overhaul the human experience as long as it doesn't get buried. (Which I doubt Michael would allow to happen)
"Aging is a failure to regenerate". Michael is so spot on with this. And he has this amazing ability to formulate these things in an operative way, which is we can invent stuff out of this. Many other scientists stay more on the philosophical side.
This. This is the stuff. What a great start to the new year, here's to the continued growth and success ahead for you both! Love both your new hairdos too btw, just fyi ;P 🥂
When I listen in Michael #Levine, and of course, I don’t understand most of information because I am an artist, so I have to listen three times I get so inspired by the opportunities presented by quantum biology The way, #MichaelLevine talks about science with so much passion, so much engagement so much detail and professionalism Yes, especially his clarity of the mind. This is what is breathtaking. Interesting to know Michael was born in Russia as well. I was born on the bank of a great #Russian river #Volga on the steps of #Russia. I came to New York in 1988 and I am a full-time artist since 1997, and I consider USA my home well I don’t have any other home anyway. I love my life #Bogoslowsky
I always search for new talks by Dr Levin. I'm glad that someone is working on this! I've always felt that a naturalistic view of the universe implies that intelligence is far less esoteric than first thought
Nice . I’m sympathetic to professor Levin’s problems. The code is the code. The plan is the plan. Maps and mappings. Mind and matter. Memory from sensory. Everything is recorded. Not everything is recalled.
I didn't really understand what he was talking about; In computer science, the "sorting" algorithm only works if it is applied to all elements, at the "cells/elements" level only logical operations are applied and since logical operations are the same for all algorithms, it makes no sense to talk about different algorithms applied to different "cells/elements".
@@mrc3ln All logical sorting algorithms work from the top down. In other words, the programmer has the goal, and the elements are just inanimate (stupid) objects - bystanders being sorted into an order determined by the goal of the programmer. But imagine if the sorting algorithm was literally programmed into the elements/objects themselves. Think of the elements as an instantiated base class with the sorting algorithm pre built into them. Now the elements have the goal to sort themselves, not the programmer. Michael is shifting the intelligence/goal seeking, further down the chain to the cells (instantiated objects). His work is nothing short of ground breaking.
@@anthonybrett First of all, the "programmer" is irrelevant, we are talking about algorithms and their operation; If an element has the ability to self-sort in a group of elements it does not need a sorting algorithm; (I repeat) the sorting algorithms need to know the entire group of elements, otherwise they do not work, however, if an element tries to be sorted by itself and different elements have different logical operations, too many possibilities of infinite loops are created.
@@mrc3ln The sorting algorithm is just an example Michael is using to demonstrate the significance of goal orientated entities. The "programmer" is the person that wants the objects sorted, not the objects themselves. That's the most important part. The goal. We write software because the objects underneath us are too stupid to sort themselves. What Michael has found is that the objects (cells) know how to sort themselves. They have goals. Don't you think that's amazing? We are talking about a simple cell which has no brain or central nervous system! Yet it is acting as an intelligent agent. Michaels research has shown that cells work together to achieve a higher purpose...without a brain!
@@anthonybrett Has he discovered what has been known for thousands of years? How do you think the human body is formed? A cell operates with more information than you can store/process in your entire life in your conscious brain.
Don't think I'm 20 minutes into this thing yet but the first thing that pops up on my head that I'd like to make mention of,,,,,,,,,,, when you're dealing with top down architecture you're dealing with a calculating process that has an effect on single-digit entities what might be considered bodies things or aberrations put singular with no further complexity....... once you do bottom up those single entities become compound entities meaning more than one component can be identified in their existence.. they are no longer benign
20:11 yea love listening to him because he really gives you these glimpses of natures processes that exist on many scales. N through zooming in on the small scale biology we can better understand natures patterns, how we work, how it all works. The hermeticists would hv loved him.
When Michael Levine said “evolution, makes problems solving machines” as to say once the eyeball is created it can be used by billions of species in many different ways and of course, as we know, eyes were created for many occasions on earth. I think this statement deserves to be in history books with a Michael Levine name next to it
Fascinating. When I say this I realize it gives an indication of just how little I know. Which I feely admit. This is why I love and support this podcast. I learn so much. The lead-in and initial portion of the conversation was a bit intimidating, but it turned out to be a very understandable and enjoyable conversation. Two points: Economics: The discussion of bottom up learning modifying behavior algorithmically, I think shows just why capitalism (yikes!) has been so successful is advancing the species: continual non-top directed purposeful human action. Biology: In cancer research, MD Anderson has several studies underway involving immunological approaches where instead of destructive external chemo infusions, the body is being encouraged, also by infusion, to recognize the cancerous cells as something foreign to the body, and act to exterminate them by internal self contained processes. I’m sure an AI feedback approach must have been used to develop this wonderful treatment. Great discussion guys. Hope your holidays were enjoyable.
At 1 hour 20 min, Levin is waxing philosophical about where number theoretic and geometric short cuts occur for evolution. What you are pointing at is the same thing Wolfram calls "Computational Reducibility." If you look at evolution as a computation, then these pockets of "computational reducibility" form reliable knowledge sensed for and discovered by the evolutionary computation. Evolution, in a sense, begins to form its knowledge by mapping out computationally reducible, knowable things. This is an advantage because it can provide dependable, knowable shortcuts in terms of computational cost/energy expenditure. It would make sense that evolutionary systems begin to formulate a 'language' around discovery of computationally reducible features in the environment.
I believe that the clustering of cells executing the same sorting algorithm is because of the choice of those two specific algorithms. It would be interesting to see what behavior exists over the space of all pairs of sorting algorithms.
Okay, from my own experience thrre is a "realm" of investigation that is not being pursued "here". This may juvenile at first glance, but I'm asserting that what I am going to say is valid and pivotal. Michael says that you can't find something if you don't know what you're looking for. Of course, there is revelation where you experience something unanticipated, but that's not intelligence until after it happens. I'm saying that there is an "event" between direct experience and the reflection upon that experience which appears as temporal, and that gap called time is where we are making the "world" that we share. Another way to think of it is to find the "place" where the past begins. I'm saying that "place" is where everything is being brought forth from, and this interstice is not being investigated.
Very excited for this interview..... I think there is something truly special about the familiarity intimacy and follow ups and continuation of story lines started way back end time...... episodic??...... we shall see,,,,, , speak to you on the other side.
Replace the word cell with human and then zoom out and wonder if there is an layer of organized intelligence above us doing the same thing he's doing to cells. 47:40 You have this motile collection of humans and I wonder if you've looked to see what the actual changes are inside of the human that permits this new organization as a consequence of the different growth conditions.
I’m curious if Dr. Michael Levin has ever worked with psychedelics, and if not I can only imagine how amazing those experiences would be for someone of his level of intelligence, intellect & creativity! ✨♾️😉
1:58:00 I'm jealous I've been trying to reconnect my arousal manifold to the platonic space to experience wuwei after my FND diagnosis, sadly I spent so many years there I got addicted to the absence of effort. Glad to see I wasn't wrong to follow along with Micheal he's still deep in the river hopefully I can get back in.
For the formation of these cells in a new environment, and what they shift thru till they die at max "84days"¿, i´m tempted to look into what "information fields", ergo morphogenic fields could provoke or do here. Very inspiring again. Thanks :)
I really like the way you think, Melissa...you should get Joscha Bach back and ask him what Levin and him are really digging out together...Bach told couple of weeks ago they are working on something together...something to do with the smallest possible algorithm for learning which could §be the kea to consciousness.
The emergent behavior of clustering with like in order to minimize surprise . . . this would require an internal frame of reference in order to make that comparison with the external others you're clustered with. That internal frame would then require the recognition of the boundary - the separation between internal and external. While those reference frames may or may not be emergent as well, they would still require a mechanism to emerge from. Where does that come from?
I'm 52 and I begun growing a new molar more than a year ago - on a piece of gum that hasn't a tooth there in over a decade. It's growing right now, seems normal but it's developing _very_ slowly. At first it was just below the gum and others couldn't really see it but now it's protruding out of the gum and easily seen. What's more I questioned this long, long before the tooth began to grow. I asked myself decades ago "how come we lose the ability to re-grow our teeth?" I do wonder if this change in thinking has anything at all to do with the process. So far as resources go teeth are mainly calcium which the body has ample stores of and I always sort-of knew that the pattern was still there, had to be else we would never have re-grown any teeth to begin with, right? so I wondered long and hard about this ... the question is _not_ "why can't we re-grow our teeth?" it's "why do we lose the ability to re-grow our teeth?" I had all of thees thought in my head _before_ I ever noticed this new tooth. Why does that process just switch off? In evolutionary terms we still need our teeth as adults so it doesn't make much sense for this process to just turn itself off. Why? Why does it just stop? I'm 52 and am genuinely re-growing on right now so we obviously _still_ have the ability as adults - we do - so what is it that makes it stop? What is it in there that tells these cells "that's it, no more tooth-making"? It doesn't seem right. Seems like a flaw to be honest. I can understand no growing back and arm but a tooth? I can't fathom that at all and I think that questioning the whole thing has something to do with this new tooth too. There's no 'treatment' involved anyway, that's for sure.
Morphological information may be distributed by the slow moving multiple channels in the "Primo Vascular System", the hard to stain and visualize microscopic vascular system studied in Korea
If an individual cell contains everything in the whole body, then some small changes inside each cell can root out the whole system, for example, any slight changes in movements of any organal, lagging or advancing. Is it happens?
Very telling. I’m still trying to figure out: What was the function of the protein that was first coded by RNA or DNA from which a selection could be made? And Why are a dog and a Tasmanian wolf or completely different genetic plants nearly identical? To what are they “converging “? Is a fractal emerging? Are things converging in a fractal? No.. they only appear to be converging or emerging by perception of those within the fractal. Or so I was told. Btw How in the //.: does this stuff pop up in my RUclips feed?
right now we have plans to come through NM in March/April. If you know any good music cafes or anything of the like - we're still booking shows for the tour :)
When are y'all going to finally interview Bob Greenyer? He's a leading LENR researcher who just coauthored a paper that was in in the open access Nature publication. Check him out @ Martin Fleischman Memorial Project!! He would be a fantastic guest for you two.
It is not true that physicists cannot ask difficult questions. "What is Life" was written by Dr Erwin Schrodinger, a Nobel prize winner in Physics. He is better known for the equation named after him.
where I think that the way that I've 1:42:13 been thinking about Consciousness and awareness and intelligence has to do 1:42:20 with the presence of a sensory system that can then integrate information and 1:42:25 then uh have effects upon the world and when we discuss the ability of computer 1:42:34 scientists to produce Consciousness or intelligence to me I always see there 1:42:39 being a limitation in these sensory systems I'm like yeah you can have a 1:42:45 brain on a chip but in order for that to be something that I recognize as 1:42:50 conscious it has to be tied into some kind of body that is able to process multiple modes of sensory information 1:42:57 integrate them and then uh apply them to goal directed behavior and if there is 1:43:04 not a necessity for a brain the way that I've conventionally 1:43:09 thought about it it really changes the way that I think about machine Consciousness because as we start to:43:45 I would say that I I agree with you that uh some sort of perception action Loop is really important but I don't think 1:43:52 three-dimensional space is the only space in which to do that and so if you're doing that in physiological State
Concerning what was said at approx. 1:31:00 + about being happy for millions of years...via our epigenetics, dont we already have our ancestors' past experiences ingrained into us? That's why we get deja vu? Karma?
At 01:46:59 Michael is talking about emergence. I.e where a new system arises and can be explained without need to go to a lower system level of explanation, even though those lower levels are required for the emerged level. His example, it is unnecessary and unhelpful to talk of sound waves and neuronal activities to explain how a student was convinced to do a PhD, even though sound waves and neuronal activities were necessary for the convincing to happen (as were all levels below them). Perhaps there is an emergent level at which galaxies and other mega systems work that our current theories have not yet understood.
I loved the Katt Williams interview on Club Shay Shay. It makes me think, "Whose Prince Albert's ring did they have to kiss to get where they are?" Eveything is a cult. Don't forget to buy your tickets for Demysticon 2024!
@@DemystifySci_Podcast the one and only was my inclination... But not exactly sure what you mean. I like the idea that I heard in another Levin show, about "bottom up freedom and top down constraints". Certainly there is an element of pattern recognition/recreation that underlies morphology and genealogy.
Michael's gonna get in trouble when he realises the political impacts of the multiagent dynamics he's revealing, he should talk to Micheal Hudson his voltage gradient theory lines up with the private lending and debt model for cancer in the former and recession driven crime and social dislocation in the latter. Can't wait to see what molecular politics will look like if computers get strong enough when I'm an old man
As someone of a more neo-platonist bent, I identify the so-called "platonic realm" with the mind of God, but recognize an order or perhaps hierarchy to it. Some forms are necessary, and thus eternal, such as a triangle or the law of non-contradiction. Such forms do not rely upon their being a physical realm. They remain true in and of themselves, in all possible realms or forms of existence. Other forms are derivative, and thus non-necessary, and are contingent on the existence of the physical world, such as a salamander. In some ways this is making a distinction between epistemology and ontology. But even making such distinctions, I don't believe that the morphogenic forms are identical so this "realm" but are something more connected to and a part of the physical world. There is, in some sense, a template that imposes itself upon the physical realm.
Well...fuck, here's something I don't know shit about !. This is fascinating. Michael Levin is excited about his work. I live in a homeopathic world that has done wonderful healing for my family. But I'm wondering why are we just now catching on that cells have a specific intelligence. But does each cell in our body know the 'whole' body? .. or just about a lung if it lives in our lung? Cells that bunch together are communicating with each other. Do all the cells in my body know a lot more than my brain does? Well of course ithey do. But I really don't need an answer to this. This is all something that will unfold...as I study further. And yes, what about A I's ? (dang--never mind) ... sorry to show my ignorance on this one.
So @ 1 hour he's admitting doing some Frankenstein genetic/cellular engineering. Yuk. They need to have a discussion about the un/ethics of doing this. Enjoyed the last part discussion about the possible linked intelligence between microbiology and the astronomical universe. Intelligence seems to pervade all of nature. Where does this intelligent energy come from? Is it simply inherent in material nature or from outside of nature, transcendent?
Shiva's wife made a skin son which he killed not knowing the boy. The wife demanded he revive him which he could not so asked some spirits that followed him to inhabit the skin boy.
If it is the Reductionist Observation, Disproof Methodology Philosophy to simply recognize Actuality and substitute as many POV as required to reiterate WYSIWYG QM-TIME Completeness Holographic Nucleation Principle, then doing that and allowing Observation in general to cross reference according to empirical professional expertise and choose the jargon/Nomenclature to most effectively advance the topic under specific study.., because Entanglement Fusion-Fission Function is probably The Calculus of Absolute Zero-infinity reference-framing containment positioning in relative-timing, and all substantiation of positioning information In-form-ation formats are available in the Function. Quantum Chemistry wave-packaging is complex Relativistic Physics of condensed wave-particle Quantum-fields Mechanism, logarithmic modulo-geometrical superposition-condensation,quantization resonance bonding, and even the density-intensity nodal-vibrational beginning-ending of crystallography is Advanced Sciencing Re-search beyond Amateur abilities.
Sloppy mashing of Intelligence, Cognition and Sentence in the term “AI” has driven me nutz from the start; Artificial intelligence is an oxymoron, something functions intelligently or it doesn’t; Anything with a brain is sentient though specific cognitive abilities vary Can algorithmic intelligence be sentient? Probably not, but who knows where this emerges? It’s complex analysis, like a dog picking over the garbage
Strick my remark for now ... But not sure what he is attempting to describe. The issue with the nodes clustering has nothing to do with anything that he is trying to say. It does not show any form of intelligence .. just brute force exchanging nodes based on the sorting algorithm. Of course certain things will appear to cluster ... it is how the algorithm works. NOTHING MORE ... On the other hand , maybe the doctor is just using the clustering as a "strange" sort of example to prove something( incorrectly ).
Listen on the go at all podcast locations: anchor.fm/demystifysci
DEMYSTICON 2024, Austin TX 4/7-8 2024: www.eventbrite.com/e/demysticon-2024-tickets-727054969987
Material solutions to quantum spookiness: www.youtube.com/@MaterialAtomics
Short films @DemystifySciInvestigates: ruclips.net/channel/UCUfzVdgNu2xLThgM2qQZmSQ
People vastly underestimate the implications of This research work the ability to grow complex genetic structures just using electrical differentiation patterns will allow for in the future Wireless growth of biological microchips like neuroLink in the brain but biologically. This will allow for basically the mark of the beast without anyone's consent...
Loved it!
I am so so so so happy you re talking with Michael. In the chaos and noise of desperate arrogant greedy people, this man and his collaborators will help humanity tremendously. Thank you!
Love that you have Dr. Levin on to provide an update. I can listen to him for hours with his incredible ability to absorb massive amounts of content and then articulate a vision that makes sense of it all to plot a path forward. Inspiring.
One of the most brilliant open-minded people of our time! I can't believe he didn't get the Nobel Prize yet.
perhaps it is because he continues to speak in terms of three-dimensional space.
I guarantee he will have a Nobel Prize in the next 10 years. He and his teams latest papers are the precipice of a new age of biology.
@@anthonybrettif they prove and then perfect their technology this will completely overhaul the human experience as long as it doesn't get buried. (Which I doubt Michael would allow to happen)
"Aging is a failure to regenerate". Michael is so spot on with this. And he has this amazing ability to formulate these things in an operative way, which is we can invent stuff out of this. Many other scientists stay more on the philosophical side.
So why does a new human being have more regenerative capabilities if all its cells come from two aged bodies?
@@mrc3ln Maybe because it's cleaner in terms of memory, information, habits, behavioural patterns, etc.
This. This is the stuff. What a great start to the new year, here's to the continued growth and success ahead for you both! Love both your new hairdos too btw, just fyi ;P 🥂
When he said "from 1992 until now" I had to look up his age. Had no idea he's 55 years old. Looking great.
What do you think 55-year-olds are supposed to look like? 😊
When I listen in Michael #Levine, and of course, I don’t understand most of information because I am an artist, so I have to listen three times
I get so inspired by the opportunities presented by quantum biology
The way, #MichaelLevine talks about science with so much passion, so much engagement so much detail and professionalism
Yes, especially his clarity of the mind. This is what is breathtaking.
Interesting to know Michael was born in Russia as well. I was born on the bank of a great #Russian river #Volga on the steps of #Russia. I came to New York in 1988 and I am a full-time artist since 1997, and I consider USA my home well I don’t have any other home anyway.
I love my life
#Bogoslowsky
I always search for new talks by Dr Levin. I'm glad that someone is working on this! I've always felt that a naturalistic view of the universe implies that intelligence is far less esoteric than first thought
Thank you all very much for sharing your time and work, Anastasia, Shilo and Michael, this was fun, great questions, that creates new questions, peace
Levine is so interesting and excellent at explaining complex topics
Dr. Levin is a fresh air of an scientist.
Nice .
I’m sympathetic to professor Levin’s problems.
The code is the code.
The plan is the plan.
Maps and mappings.
Mind and matter.
Memory from sensory.
Everything is recorded.
Not everything is recalled.
The sorting algorithm stuff is brilliant. It’s like modern art. How the simplest elements reveal profound truths.
I didn't really understand what he was talking about; In computer science, the "sorting" algorithm only works if it is applied to all elements, at the "cells/elements" level only logical operations are applied and since logical operations are the same for all algorithms, it makes no sense to talk about different algorithms applied to different "cells/elements".
@@mrc3ln All logical sorting algorithms work from the top down. In other words, the programmer has the goal, and the elements are just inanimate (stupid) objects - bystanders being sorted into an order determined by the goal of the programmer. But imagine if the sorting algorithm was literally programmed into the elements/objects themselves. Think of the elements as an instantiated base class with the sorting algorithm pre built into them. Now the elements have the goal to sort themselves, not the programmer. Michael is shifting the intelligence/goal seeking, further down the chain to the cells (instantiated objects). His work is nothing short of ground breaking.
@@anthonybrett First of all, the "programmer" is irrelevant, we are talking about algorithms and their operation; If an element has the ability to self-sort in a group of elements it does not need a sorting algorithm; (I repeat) the sorting algorithms need to know the entire group of elements, otherwise they do not work, however, if an element tries to be sorted by itself and different elements have different logical operations, too many possibilities of infinite loops are created.
@@mrc3ln The sorting algorithm is just an example Michael is using to demonstrate the significance of goal orientated entities. The "programmer" is the person that wants the objects sorted, not the objects themselves. That's the most important part. The goal. We write software because the objects underneath us are too stupid to sort themselves. What Michael has found is that the objects (cells) know how to sort themselves. They have goals. Don't you think that's amazing? We are talking about a simple cell which has no brain or central nervous system! Yet it is acting as an intelligent agent. Michaels research has shown that cells work together to achieve a higher purpose...without a brain!
@@anthonybrett Has he discovered what has been known for thousands of years? How do you think the human body is formed? A cell operates with more information than you can store/process in your entire life in your conscious brain.
Don't think I'm 20 minutes into this thing yet but the first thing that pops up on my head that I'd like to make mention of,,,,,,,,,,, when you're dealing with top down architecture you're dealing with a calculating process that has an effect on single-digit entities what might be considered bodies things or aberrations put singular with no further complexity....... once you do bottom up those single entities become compound entities meaning more than one component can be identified in their existence.. they are no longer benign
20:11 yea love listening to him because he really gives you these glimpses of natures processes that exist on many scales. N through zooming in on the small scale biology we can better understand natures patterns, how we work, how it all works. The hermeticists would hv loved him.
Amazing interview! Host's and guest very intelligent yet easy to understand!
"Childhood's End" by Arthur C Clarke. Thanks for the show!
I thought “Against the Fall of Night” was better but I’ll revisit “Childhoods End”.
When Michael Levine said “evolution, makes problems solving machines” as to say once the eyeball is created it can be used by billions of species in many different ways and of course, as we know, eyes were created for many occasions on earth.
I think this statement deserves to be in history books with a Michael Levine name next to it
Fascinating. When I say this I realize it gives an indication of just how little I know. Which I feely admit. This is why I love and support this podcast. I learn so much.
The lead-in and initial portion of the conversation was a bit intimidating, but it turned out to be a very understandable and enjoyable conversation.
Two points:
Economics:
The discussion of bottom up learning modifying behavior algorithmically, I think shows just why capitalism (yikes!) has been so successful is advancing the species: continual non-top directed purposeful human action.
Biology:
In cancer research, MD Anderson has several studies underway involving immunological approaches where instead of destructive external chemo infusions, the body is being encouraged, also by infusion, to recognize the cancerous cells as something foreign to the body, and act to exterminate them by internal self contained processes. I’m sure an AI feedback approach must have been used to develop this wonderful treatment.
Great discussion guys. Hope your holidays were enjoyable.
LOOOVE THIS INTELLIGENCE SPACEOFDISCOVERY GOOO MICHAEL.
Fascinating. Outstanding interview. Subscribed.
At 1 hour 20 min, Levin is waxing philosophical about where number theoretic and geometric short cuts occur for evolution.
What you are pointing at is the same thing Wolfram calls "Computational Reducibility." If you look at evolution as a computation, then these pockets of "computational reducibility" form reliable knowledge sensed for and discovered by the evolutionary computation. Evolution, in a sense, begins to form its knowledge by mapping out computationally reducible, knowable things. This is an advantage because it can provide dependable, knowable shortcuts in terms of computational cost/energy expenditure.
It would make sense that evolutionary systems begin to formulate a 'language' around discovery of computationally reducible features in the environment.
Levin and Hoffman are the brightest most instinctive creative scientists of the moment.
Hoffman part 2 coming up next week
Amazing show!❤🎉
I believe that the clustering of cells executing the same sorting algorithm is because of the choice of those two specific algorithms. It would be interesting to see what behavior exists over the space of all pairs of sorting algorithms.
Okay, from my own experience thrre is a "realm" of investigation that is not being pursued "here". This may juvenile at first glance, but I'm asserting that what I am going to say is valid and pivotal. Michael says that you can't find something if you don't know what you're looking for. Of course, there is revelation where you experience something unanticipated, but that's not intelligence until after it happens. I'm saying that there is an "event" between direct experience and the reflection upon that experience which appears as temporal, and that gap called time is where we are making the "world" that we share. Another way to think of it is to find the "place" where the past begins. I'm saying that "place" is where everything is being brought forth from, and this interstice is not being investigated.
Very excited for this interview..... I think there is something truly special about the familiarity intimacy and follow ups and continuation of story lines started way back end time...... episodic??...... we shall see,,,,, , speak to you on the other side.
Replace the word cell with human and then zoom out and wonder if there is an layer of organized intelligence above us doing the same thing he's doing to cells.
47:40 You have this motile collection of humans and I wonder if you've looked to see what the actual changes are inside of the human that permits this new organization as a consequence of the different growth conditions.
are you thinking money or hydrogen?
@@robertoverbeeke865 don't understand...
I’m curious if Dr. Michael Levin has ever worked with psychedelics, and if not I can only imagine how amazing those experiences would be for someone of his level of intelligence, intellect & creativity! ✨♾️😉
1:58:00 I'm jealous I've been trying to reconnect my arousal manifold to the platonic space to experience wuwei after my FND diagnosis, sadly I spent so many years there I got addicted to the absence of effort. Glad to see I wasn't wrong to follow along with Micheal he's still deep in the river hopefully I can get back in.
His work is equating adaptation to intelligence. I think it is useful to demystify intelligence and bring it down to an actual experimental framework.
So refreshing to hear "we don't know" humility allows genius.
For the formation of these cells in a new environment, and what they shift thru till they die at max "84days"¿, i´m tempted to look into what "information fields", ergo morphogenic fields could provoke or do here. Very inspiring again. Thanks :)
1:06:12 Thank you, that answers my question 🤩 Man on Moon levels of awesome 🤩
Long drive from Oregon to TX. Done it myself, just the other way around. Drive safe.
Good interview
Sometimes we do not know the easiest path but we can usually tell right away.
Isn't that the first principle
I really like the way you think, Melissa...you should get Joscha Bach back and ask him what Levin and him are really digging out together...Bach told couple of weeks ago they are working on something together...something to do with the smallest possible algorithm for learning which could §be the kea to consciousness.
The emergent behavior of clustering with like in order to minimize surprise . . . this would require an internal frame of reference in order to make that comparison with the external others you're clustered with. That internal frame would then require the recognition of the boundary - the separation between internal and external. While those reference frames may or may not be emergent as well, they would still require a mechanism to emerge from. Where does that come from?
Maybe it's more the capacity for local information transfer?
I'm 52 and I begun growing a new molar more than a year ago - on a piece of gum that hasn't a tooth there in over a decade. It's growing right now, seems normal but it's developing _very_ slowly. At first it was just below the gum and others couldn't really see it but now it's protruding out of the gum and easily seen. What's more I questioned this long, long before the tooth began to grow. I asked myself decades ago "how come we lose the ability to re-grow our teeth?" I do wonder if this change in thinking has anything at all to do with the process.
So far as resources go teeth are mainly calcium which the body has ample stores of and I always sort-of knew that the pattern was still there, had to be else we would never have re-grown any teeth to begin with, right? so I wondered long and hard about this ... the question is _not_ "why can't we re-grow our teeth?" it's "why do we lose the ability to re-grow our teeth?" I had all of thees thought in my head _before_ I ever noticed this new tooth.
Why does that process just switch off? In evolutionary terms we still need our teeth as adults so it doesn't make much sense for this process to just turn itself off. Why? Why does it just stop? I'm 52 and am genuinely re-growing on right now so we obviously _still_ have the ability as adults - we do - so what is it that makes it stop? What is it in there that tells these cells "that's it, no more tooth-making"? It doesn't seem right. Seems like a flaw to be honest. I can understand no growing back and arm but a tooth? I can't fathom that at all and I think that questioning the whole thing has something to do with this new tooth too. There's no 'treatment' involved anyway, that's for sure.
Often thought about sharks, how they regrow theirs too
Morphological information may be distributed by the slow moving multiple channels in the "Primo Vascular System", the hard to stain and visualize microscopic vascular system studied in Korea
If an individual cell contains everything in the whole body, then some small changes inside each cell can root out the whole system, for example, any slight changes in movements of any organal, lagging or advancing. Is it happens?
Molecules have memories stored in quantum information. In fact one solitary atom is the sum total of the entire universe.
Very telling.
I’m still trying to figure out:
What was the function of the protein that was first coded by RNA or DNA from which a selection could be made?
And
Why are a dog and a Tasmanian wolf or completely different genetic plants nearly identical? To what are they “converging “?
Is a fractal emerging?
Are things converging in a fractal?
No.. they only appear to be converging or emerging by perception of those within the fractal.
Or so I was told.
Btw
How in the //.: does this stuff pop up in my RUclips feed?
😂
Big fan. I'm in Las Cruces NM. If you come through LC,NM pls lmk I'd love to host you guys and/or help anyway I can.
right now we have plans to come through NM in March/April. If you know any good music cafes or anything of the like - we're still booking shows for the tour :)
When are y'all going to finally interview Bob Greenyer? He's a leading LENR researcher who just coauthored a paper that was in in the open access Nature publication. Check him out @ Martin Fleischman Memorial Project!! He would be a fantastic guest for you two.
Another loyal fan of you two and Bob G.
Humans do grow galls, "verucas" etc.
It is not true that physicists cannot ask difficult questions. "What is Life" was written by Dr Erwin Schrodinger, a Nobel prize winner in Physics. He is better known for the equation named after him.
where I think that the way that I've
1:42:13
been thinking about Consciousness and awareness and intelligence has to do
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with the presence of a sensory system that can then integrate information and
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then uh have effects upon the world and when we discuss the ability of computer
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scientists to produce Consciousness or intelligence to me I always see there
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being a limitation in these sensory systems I'm like yeah you can have a
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brain on a chip but in order for that to be something that I recognize as
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conscious it has to be tied into some kind of body that is able to process multiple modes of sensory information
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integrate them and then uh apply them to goal directed behavior and if there is
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not a necessity for a brain the way that I've conventionally
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thought about it it really changes the way that I think about machine Consciousness because as we start to:43:45
I would say that I I agree with you that uh some sort of perception action Loop is really important but I don't think
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three-dimensional space is the only space in which to do that and so if you're doing that in physiological State
Concerning what was said at approx. 1:31:00 + about being happy for millions of years...via our epigenetics, dont we already have our ancestors' past experiences ingrained into us? That's why we get deja vu? Karma?
At 01:46:59 Michael is talking about emergence. I.e where a new system arises and can be explained without need to go to a lower system level of explanation, even though those lower levels are required for the emerged level. His example, it is unnecessary and unhelpful to talk of sound waves and neuronal activities to explain how a student was convinced to do a PhD, even though sound waves and neuronal activities were necessary for the convincing to happen (as were all levels below them). Perhaps there is an emergent level at which galaxies and other mega systems work that our current theories have not yet understood.
I loved the Katt Williams interview on Club Shay Shay.
It makes me think, "Whose Prince Albert's ring did they have to kiss to get where they are?"
Eveything is a cult. Don't forget to buy your tickets for Demysticon 2024!
explorer's club here not cult...decentralized leadership welcome
since they have not evolved adaptively , perhaps they are evolving complex potential states
Phenotype, genotype and algotype:
The holy trinity of biology?
which one?
@@DemystifySci_Podcast the one and only was my inclination... But not exactly sure what you mean.
I like the idea that I heard in another Levin show, about "bottom up freedom and top down constraints". Certainly there is an element of pattern recognition/recreation that underlies morphology and genealogy.
Can you interview Stephen C Meyers?
on what topic?
Michael's gonna get in trouble when he realises the political impacts of the multiagent dynamics he's revealing, he should talk to Micheal Hudson his voltage gradient theory lines up with the private lending and debt model for cancer in the former and recession driven crime and social dislocation in the latter. Can't wait to see what molecular politics will look like if computers get strong enough when I'm an old man
As someone of a more neo-platonist bent, I identify the so-called "platonic realm" with the mind of God, but recognize an order or perhaps hierarchy to it. Some forms are necessary, and thus eternal, such as a triangle or the law of non-contradiction. Such forms do not rely upon their being a physical realm. They remain true in and of themselves, in all possible realms or forms of existence. Other forms are derivative, and thus non-necessary, and are contingent on the existence of the physical world, such as a salamander. In some ways this is making a distinction between epistemology and ontology. But even making such distinctions, I don't believe that the morphogenic forms are identical so this "realm" but are something more connected to and a part of the physical world. There is, in some sense, a template that imposes itself upon the physical realm.
Well...fuck, here's something I don't know shit about !. This is fascinating. Michael Levin is excited about his work. I live in a homeopathic world that has done wonderful healing for my family. But I'm wondering why are we just now catching on that cells have a specific intelligence. But does each cell in our body know the 'whole' body? .. or just about a lung if it lives in our lung? Cells that bunch together are communicating with each other.
Do all the cells in my body know a lot more than my brain does? Well of course ithey do.
But I really don't need an answer to this. This is all something that will unfold...as I study further.
And yes, what about A I's ? (dang--never mind) ... sorry to show my ignorance on this one.
Yes great ! I'm catching on as I'm studying. @dinomiles7999
So @ 1 hour he's admitting doing some Frankenstein genetic/cellular engineering. Yuk. They need to have a discussion about the un/ethics of doing this. Enjoyed the last part discussion about the possible linked intelligence between microbiology and the astronomical universe. Intelligence seems to pervade all of nature. Where does this intelligent energy come from? Is it simply inherent in material nature or from outside of nature, transcendent?
These two remind me of an SNL skit.
I like the least action principle for biology presented here.
And I love the prof burger comment also. No offense guys.
*1:14:59*
*It’s funny watching these guys talk about God while trying their hardest to not talk about God*
We talk about God plenty - stay tuned for Don Hoffman next week, and check out our conversation with Scott Turner
@@DemystifySci_Podcast will do!
@ 12:30 "The way that it works is there's a centralised top down mind ....."
Shiva's wife made a skin son which he killed not knowing the boy. The wife demanded he revive him which he could not so asked some spirits that followed him to inhabit the skin boy.
If it is the Reductionist Observation, Disproof Methodology Philosophy to simply recognize Actuality and substitute as many POV as required to reiterate WYSIWYG QM-TIME Completeness Holographic Nucleation Principle, then doing that and allowing Observation in general to cross reference according to empirical professional expertise and choose the jargon/Nomenclature to most effectively advance the topic under specific study.., because Entanglement Fusion-Fission Function is probably The Calculus of Absolute Zero-infinity reference-framing containment positioning in relative-timing, and all substantiation of positioning information In-form-ation formats are available in the Function.
Quantum Chemistry wave-packaging is complex Relativistic Physics of condensed wave-particle Quantum-fields Mechanism, logarithmic modulo-geometrical superposition-condensation,quantization resonance bonding, and even the density-intensity nodal-vibrational beginning-ending of crystallography is Advanced Sciencing Re-search beyond Amateur abilities.
Easy for you to say.
What h Lucy ( movie 2014)
Hello you young hipsters!
Shiloh bro, gastro_physics.
XD
Galaxies, bacteria, human.. all made by gravity..
Sloppy mashing of Intelligence, Cognition and Sentence in the term “AI” has driven me nutz from the start;
Artificial intelligence is an oxymoron, something functions intelligently or it doesn’t;
Anything with a brain is sentient though specific cognitive abilities vary
Can algorithmic intelligence be sentient?
Probably not, but who knows where this emerges?
It’s complex analysis, like a dog picking over the garbage
lol "professor burgers"
Dr. Levin comes off incredibly strange in this. Maybe he was having an off-day. He seems to spew nonsense.
This sounds like a randomized bucket of word salad and extremely silly and naive computer science techniques geeeesh
Strick my remark for now ... But not sure what he is attempting to describe. The issue with the nodes clustering has nothing to do with anything that he is trying to say. It does not show any form of intelligence .. just brute force exchanging nodes based on the sorting algorithm. Of course certain things will appear to cluster ... it is how the algorithm works. NOTHING MORE ... On the other hand , maybe the doctor is just using the clustering as a "strange" sort of example to prove something( incorrectly ).
Every SINGLE time I listen to Michael my brain and consciousness is GUSHING with intellectual orgasms💦🫣😂😭
❤❤❤Love u guys. Great stuff as always!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_permittivity
i am sure we all know what you meant but just in case might as well mention this