You didn’t even cover all of the points I made in my video. You “cut certain parts out” but that’s fine.. We will just agree to disagree on this topic Greg. Remember, in more than one video you said, “if you can’t see your abs you’re fat.” That’s is not a responsible statement to make to natural lifters, nor is that promoting a positive body image to the new generation of natural lifters. Thanks for the response though and have a good day🤝💪🏿
@@nicholasingratta423 someone forgot to watch the video. He addresses every person on the population. Everyone needs to get to the healthy body fat for them. More and more people got this as this comment section had overwhelming response saying exactly what maingaining is and isn't. Even greg acknowledges that have abs isn't necessarily what people should strive for. Even a visible outline may not be in the cards. Nothing hard to understand about that. Maingaining is about finding a healthy bodyweight. Not struggling. Feeling your best. Being fat doesn't make u a bad person. Gaining fat on purpose when you are above your healthy weight is pointless.
@@nicholasingratta423 ps... Greg also says you should bulk if you're too lean. Ie... many people at 10 percent to 15 percent are too lean. And therfore they should bulk. Again. This should be crystal clear by now.
I’ve been watching Chris Jones channel for years, back to his original POG days. I learned a lot of tips from him from cooking to working out. I used to follow his bulk and cut routine and when I was younger it worked okay, I gained some strength and size. But it definitely was a little harder to lean out the older I got and as my body changed. Now pushing 30 and after watching Greg for a number of years, I’ve found the main gaining and low calorie dense foods work much better for me to stay lean but also put on muscle. I don’t think it’s a right vs wrong situation, I just think everyone is different and what might work for some people might not work for others. I could never take anything away from Chris with all of the people he’s helped and inspired over the years. At the end of the day, it comes down to what works for you and you have to try different things and absorb as much knowledge from wherever you can. Both of you guys are great role models 💪🏼
@@Joseph1NJ in the amount of time it took you to think about it, hit reply and type that and hit send, you could’ve read it. Sorry you’re not good at reading 🙁
Facts. I think it's a common feeling to just wanna get big when you're a teenager. When you get older it's wayyy harder to cut that weight off though 😂 Maingaining becomes a much better approach
This right here as someone in their mid-30s. I can still do a decent cut, however as I get older it takes longer and more planning. Also cutting at this age also affects my recovery and injuries will prevail in a large calorie deficit. It's easier for me to stay at a weight where I not only look and feel good, but optimize my recovery.
I love maingaining. I was morbidly obese my entire life and struggled to lose the fat. I was lazy, hated exercising, had a shit diet, lifting weights was a chore and almost everything I ate was high calorie dense garbage. Once I lost the fat I decided to do a photo shoot. My coach and I pushed the fat loss to the leanest I had ever been, but I felt like shit. At the start of the weight loss process it was slow and steady but at the end it was aggressive I had no energy, felt like shit and was losing muscle for sure. Then I finally listened to coach Greg. I was trying to maintain too lean of a physique, because I thought I could. I thought I could stay lean as hell and build muscle slowly, but I didn’t have energy. So I increased my calories slowly until I started to feel normal. Sex drive returned, I had energy in and out of the gym and was sleeping better than I ever have in my entire life. I have maintained this zone ever since. When I feel like I’m looking too soft I decrease my calories a little bit. When I feel like I’m looking and feeling too lean, maybe not as energetic or as strong in the gym I’ll increase a little bit. Most of the time I look in the mirror and I like what I see.. so I just eat the same and try to stay in this place. I’m content with the knowledge that building muscle is a slow process. I know in my heart I’m slowly growing and the important part is that I never want to look in the mirror and hate what I see I’ve been morbidly obese. I know how I feel when I’m looking in the mirror and seeing a physique I despise. My main goal is health and longevity so I’d rather stay a healthy weight all the time than yo-yo up and down. Thanks doc 💪
I agree with the "maingain" approach, depending on your circumstance. One element that's not mentioned here is age. I'm 41 and I've been "maingaining" since my 30s. When I was younger, it was all about getting big (started at 16). And once I did get big (around 20), I started focusing on the bodybuilding lifestyle of bulking for 8 months and cutting down the last 4. And I did this for roughly a decade. But after sometime into my early 30s, the stress of carrying around so much weight (at 6'1" 220+ lbs) became more of a chore than anything. I realized I was aging and I didn't enjoy the bulk and cut routine like I did before. I found it more convenient and better overall to be lighter and harder year round. These days, I walk around at about 200 lbs, where my muscles are full and striated. I look better overall, and everyone around me agrees. And I feel better too...stronger, lighter and more capable. I can't imagine bulking up at 41, looking to cut down when I'm not getting paid to shows or TV adverts. In short, if you're young and ambitious about bodybuilding... Go ahead and bulk/cut. You'll impress yourself and learn about your body's physiology while at it. But if you're a grown man, with grown man responsibilities... I just say that maingaining is a much better approach to living a fit lifestyle.
Well said. I think it's a common feeling to just wanna get big when you're a teenager. When you get older it's wayyy harder to cut that weight off though 😂 Maingaining becomes a much better approach
I hate that this new era of the fitness industry is so hungry for content that it has resulted in content creators constantly calling each other out for every little thing. Everyone’s different and what works for someone won’t work for someone else.
Agreed. Marc Lobiner made a video about this at Tiger Fitness. Grown men acting like a bunch of girls. I miss the old days with the likes of Ogus and Lex.
Ive tried many different diets and workouts and experimented with everything over the last 10 years. Some stuff works better than others, but none of it doesnt work. Some things just work better for certain people. The best advice people give is to just do whats best for you
Keep in mind… Jones didn’t say to get fat af… but rather than to gain muscle, a caloric surplus is better for a natural lifter. Which, if you’ve been natural your whole life and have been committed at least as decade… it is true.
I was a huge fan of Chris. He’s been around since the beginning, but facts are facts. Gaining extra weight is tiring. “Don’t bulk if you don’t need to, which most don’t need to.” That’s it.
I finally figured out who you remind me of. A cross between that guy who used to do the oxi clean infomercials and the "inconceivable!" Guy from Princess Bride.
Chris Jones was one of the first RUclipsrs I watched when i first started lifting.. did the whole dirty bulking.. but just like you mention, I already had enough or too much body fat, so while I did notice gains in size and strength, my schedule didn't allow me to workout and diet consistently.. I've started my own journey with a progressive overload/ maingain style.. keeping my calorie intake at a happy medium.. my common sense tells me that eventually, with consistent workout routines and calorie intake, my body fat will come to a happy medium also..
What he said about being at a reasonable body fat %, where you look good and feel good year round makes me think of Will Tennyson, he's such a great guy
He's at 16-18% bodyfat most of the time! That can be maintained, but the truth that nobody is talking about is that no matter what approach you use as a natural you won't get 20 inch arms and look like Arnold!
I think Chris & Greg are both right. The thing is, you can always "maingain" and cut. It doesn't just have to just be one of the three. I think it's a common feeling to just wanna get big when you're a teenager. When you get older though it's wayyy harder to cut that weight off 😂 So maingaining becomes a much better approach
Definitely agree, that was similar to my comment. True when I was In my teens I loved getting huge , fat and muscle as long as I looked a beast in my t shirt I didn't care lol. Its a different story now I'm 40 lol
Nah in my opinion Greg is right and Chris is also right but at the same time he’s wrong cause yes bulking is very important if you’re skinny with low body fat but basically Chris is telling people that there’s no such thing as maingaining and that yo yo dieting is better than maintaining a healthy weight like coach Greg always preaches and Greg is right and not wrong cause like I said he preaches people to stay at a healthy weight for them and never said bulking is bad he’s saying don’t bulk if you’re 20%+ body fat and don’t cut if your single digit body fat he always say somewhere in the middle so you can feel good mentally and physically
I think I agree with everyone on this thread in some percentage my two cents is I had a wrestling coach who said anyone can look great if they eat like a pig lift and run/sprint
Just because someone uses PED’s doesn’t mean they can’t can’t give advice on doing it naturally. People are entitled to workout however they choose. I’m pretty sure Greg knows what he’s talking about. I’m a natural body builder, but I used a lot of Coach’s advice to get to where I am
well i still agree somwhat with chris , a natural bodybuilder would know more about the struggles of being natural while lifting than someone who uses ped's , it just makes sense and while i think that personally i will never go on a dirty bulk im also aware thats its the fastest way to gain muscles
@@multechpro7151 yeah man Chris mentioned in that video that post cut, into the reverse diet is where the muscle memory from the dirty bulk will come into play and u will see better gains then the main gaining which makes sense for sure
I can say that Chris' cutting strategies worked for me. I did hire him once to get me shredded and he took me down very easily from like 25% to 9%. Anyway, I think you both make some decent points, but dirty bulking for most people is probably a bad idea.
I think one's mental health should be the biggest factor. When Chris Jones said "discipline," he actually meant to say "patience." While it does take discipline to stay committed to making slow gains, it takes patience to accept slow gains. For some people, it's mentally better for them to see their body change, for better or worse. When you look the same and you're doing things to look different; the longer you look the same, the more you'll feel like you're stagnant. That's just how it is.
Tbh, before knowing Greg D’s vidz were a thing I realised that all I had to do was “listen” to my body. I trained at maintenance cals, got more muscle, then started getting hungrier and hungrier without making more gains in strength/muscle. I literally added one friggin banana a day to my (high protein) diet, and I began gaining more strength and muscle. And the cycle repeated again. So I truly do believe in this maingain theory. When I wanna prep for a vacation, I just “cut” for 6 weeks and I’m good. And I’ve done many dirty bulks before cuz I thought this was the way. But I was disappointed after my cut and hard work. So GD makes sense. At least to me
Yo that pause when he blanked out hahahahahahahaha. Shout out to the editor 🤣🤣🤣🤣 And that last time he started cursing like crazy, omg I cried 😂. I do the same thing unfortunately 😒😒
For me I’m not going to lie chris jones got me into the bodybuilding life style . I lost my weight and used his program and it works . On the flip side I will say it’s not for everyone because me and Chris have similar genetics /body type . But getting older it’s harder to bulk and cut and easier to main gain . I feel the bulk and cut method is good for a few cycles and then you maintain and then increase incrementally
I can see both points of view, and when I was younger i adopted more of beast mode Jones routine, but now im older its too much on my system to pile on weight, not only that but I found it hard on my natural test level and cholesterol. For me personally I only bulk around 10 to 12 pounds that way its much easier to loose that weight and its way less harsh on my body,
Since may/june 2020, I've been following Greg and have seen lots of results at the gym. At 15 I was at my heaviest of 116kg at 5"5 30% bf. In 3 years I was able to drop down to 74-72kg and during this period where I've maintained the same bw, I got frustrated and got into bulking in late 2020 in hopes of "blowing up". I gained 6kg of FAT mainly, but in the beginning I thought I was gaining muscle, but later on I felt like shit because of how fat I looked. TL:DR: It's better to maintain a weight that YOU feel comfortable at to train and don't praise the idea of "eat big to get big".
Chris jones is my favorite natty bodybuilder. His content is valuable and should be followed. IMO. He says it varies person to person. Lets just get along fellas.
The strength gains are better on a bulk. For me I sacrificed abs but without getting a huge gut. I’d say medium bulks are worth it. Performance wise my best weight was around 192 where I was still slender. I maintained that until my strength started to stall. Lately I’ve been around 202-205. Really not THAT much weight gain but I can cut back down to 190 with a bit more added muscle and it won’t take forever and my strength jumped. I’d say find your best performance weight and over time maybe only add 10-12 pounds if you’re gonna bulk.
I have to agree with you on this 100%. I am a natural lifter, been doing it for 15 years now. And in the beginning of my journey I did dirty bulking and I did get big and fat. A year ago I main gain for about 6 months and i liked it. Gained muscle and started to lean out. Now im going up 10 lbs and main gaining again. looking good so far
You will! Did the same here drastic improvement in strenght and size... I probably done more in the last 6 to 8 months than the 2 years prior trying to stay too lean( at that point)... Good luck and don't forget to focus on the quality of your sets opposed to volume!!! That was another game changer for me
I love both you guys Beastmode Jones and Greg doucette no homo 😁 you both have great perspectives to bodybuilding you both give great information keep up the good work guys thank you both 💪🏾💪🏾
After a year of seeing Greg’s videos and the maingaining controversy plus actively training weight loss clients, people genuinely just don’t understand what maingaining really means as far where it relates to them and their bodyfat and their nutrition. Very few people actually know what their best bodyfat is and where their real maintenance calories are, it takes time to find that and once you have them maingaining can apply perfectly. THIS IS WHAT GREG SAYS but people still can’t relate it to themselves.
Love both you guys hope you guys just agree to disagree…. Beast mode has been a personal trainer for me and Greg is my nutritionist. Both of you had a huge impact on who I am today
@@Jay-hp6pu He has the mindset that because hes been on youtube for so long he just deserves so much more recognition even though he became irrelevant like 5 years ago
Two people with two big egos who believe their way is the only correct way. At the end of the day, it's just two side of the same coin. Some people respond better to bulking and cutting, some people respond better to maingain. Why not just recommend trying both approach for couple of months and sticking to the one you enjoy and respond well to.
gotta be honest maingaining is shit for me atleast, i counted every calorie but honestly the strength and muscle gains were negligable. i honestly prefer doing a proper bulk to gain strength and size. obviously dirty bulking isn't the way but it will build a shit ton of muscle and strength. maingaining made me look really soft for some reason.
Of course you get more strength and size, more fat and body mass makes you able to move more weights. Bulking is not healthy and won't make you gain more muscle in the long run
in the definition of maingaining for the coach is a bit different to calculating the calories just to your maintenance, the "maintenance calorie calculators" are extremely inaccurate, maingaining for greg is looking at yourself at the mirror from time to time, weighting yourself from time to time and think "hey i'm getting too fat" "i'm getting too lean" and triying to maintain your bodyfat from there while gaining muscle, no stress, that is "more or less" Chris Heria lifestyle but a little more easygoing. Also that type of nutrition is more sustainable since the older you get the harder it will be to get leaner, so how will you do at 55 years like "oh this is the end of my bulk, now I need to cut" you wont be able to use the same vigor from when you were younger. That is the strongest point of the coach and talks a bit about that in one of the videos for William Li.
@@idrinkwater1124 That is why strongmen are all above 20% bodyfat, but we aren't strongmen and we aren't making any profits from it so bulking up to more than 20% bodyfat is the same as taking tons of drugs to look like a bodybuilder without competing!
Chris has been going down the Elliot Hulse route for a couple years now. You can tell he’s been going crazy. At least with Elliot it’s entertaining with him it’s just sad.
I agree… I bulked forever as a newbie, couldn’t breathe and my blood pressure was too high .. finally learned how to diet and wow I don’t ever think I’d “bulk” again
Crazy but dirty bulk worked for me. I was 165 at 6ft 1 and I am currently 220 athletic and able to hit powerlifting numbers on the main 3 lifts. As Chris Jones said, it works for certain people.
@@mel-el5862 bulking for me is like a mini steroid cycle for naturals. My strength goes way up and I get crazy pumps. I make a lot of progress. Maingaining progress is so god damn slow, I can’t do it. Much more comfortable to be bulking and cutting.
@@SaggyJ 200 pounds at 5’5 means you went waaay overboard. That’s your fault for being an idiot. At the height of my bulks I’m at 205 and my heigh is 5’11.
Ive been lifting for 3 years+ now. 1st and 2nd year was on this heavy bulk cut diet thinking it is the best way to achieve that physique. for the 3rd year I decided to sit at 13% fat and just workout hard. I saw my best results in my third year. All of my numbers went up smoothly and even lost 2% of fat while working out with a man-gain. which resulted in my maintenance changing to 11% because I was eating the same the whole time. Also wanted to add how gruesome and shitty those first 2 years of heavy bulking and cutting was. It literally drained me for my days since I have a manual labor job being a hvac head technician. Just wanted to say that Coach Gregg knows his stuff and I've been listening to this guy ever since I started and couldn't be here with my physique without him. So just wanted to say thank you for everything and hope everything is well and blessed for you Gregg.
Sadly many people have no clue what their maintenance calories are either because they are new to lifting or not disciplined enough to count and track. Bulking is a young man's game. It's what you do when you don't have the experience yet to understand nutrition is 75% of your gains. Once you get serious maingaining is absolutely the right approach and you will see amazing results.
Great advice as always coach! However, I believe it’s up to the individual for what’s works for them. Like many things, it’s hard to argue with absolutes; we all have different abilities that results in a multitude of variables for losing and gaining weight. To each his own..
Nah chris right on this one. Can’t say you know more than a lifetime natural who is much bigger than you where when you where natty 15 or so years ago. I fw you Greg. This just my opinion. Been watching jones since POG
Wtf are u smoking? U basically said that some random trained 5 years at the gym without efficiency and dieting and then some bigger guy comes , determined, with a good diet and knows how to train properly. Basically u are saying that the moron that trained for 5 years knows much more just because he trained for a longer time. U are nothing more than an ignorant fuck, especially because Greg literally gave explanations that make sense, get lost
Greg did 40 something natural bodybuilding shows from his teens to his late 30s. Who do you think knows more about training and graining muscles and cutting naturally? 😂 Chris was your average lifter throughout his life until he got serious and became a trainer. He rarely does a serious cut. So who do you think knows more about maintaining muscles while cutting?
Ok, I'm really starting to enjoy your style of videos. Initially I felt like you were yelling, but now I'm like "Eh, that just Greg talking. He's ok, he's not yelling at me in this video". I still need to get a better understanding of the terminology that you use. I really appreciate your yelling style. It's really motivating me to get back to getting fit. At 53 and dealing with knee and life issues I thought I was done with trying to get fit. Also, I feel like you're absolutely right. Since you have the experience of dealing with various ways of body building that makes you the most qualified to give advice. After 2-3 weeks of watching your videos I'm finally hitting subscribe button. Looking forward to seeing and hearing more from you. Again, thank you.
It really doesn’t matter as long as you choose what you want to do and you get the results you want. If you’re impatient, dirty hill then cut. If you don’t care how long it takes then stay lean and slowly progress. It’s not rocket science.
This really depends on the person. For me, I've always been underweight and a pretty hard gainer. The dirty bulk works for me. For others, not so much.
This, I was 6'3 150lbs and extremely active. I decided to "dirty bulk" from a measly 2,000 to 4,000 while still remaining active in the gym and martial arts daily and I'm still "shredded". I maintained my visible muscle separation and all, I just look like a bigger version of myself
Actually it will! Yes you'll build more muscle and strength even as a steroid user or a natural! The problem is it's unhealthy as f*ck and if you're a young guy girls won't like you that much......also you'll have a high heart rate and feel tired! Strongmen and Powerlifters are always higher than 20% bodyfat so saying that bulking and gaining tons of fat doesn't build more muscle or strength is a huge lie! However most of us aren't powerlifters or strongmen so adding more than 20% bodyfat is the same as taking tons of drugs looking like a professional bodybuilder, but not competing in any bodybuilding show!
You don’t have to get fat During a Bulking Phase. What are you do is you get down to 10% body fat and only add a little bit of calories on top of your maintenance calories anywhere between 50 to 200 is really all you need. You bought between 10 to 15% body fat once you get to 15% body fat cut back down to 10% and bounce in between the 10 to 15% that’s it. I agree with Jones eating at maintenance calories and expecting to add muscle for somebody who is natural and has been lifting for a few years and hasn’t been off of lifting for quite some time isn’t gonna work.
Greg also knows how to train enchanced for a natural show LOL but I do believe that Chris and Greg are kind of targeting two different crowds, Greg talks to the majority of the population who are overweight or just trying to get in better shape which the man gaining and non bulk approach may be better
I've learned a lot of new things from Coach Greg about training and building muscle. However, for losing weight, it's never been my problem tbh cause it's much more straightforward with main-gaining approach at a healthy body fat. It's not rocket science, listen to your body, if you're feeling like crap then eat more CONTROLLABLY and stay there, and if you've built decent muscle that satisfies you and want to cut to see it more, then cut. That's just it :)
I have done all. Dirty bulk, maingain and slow bulk all has worked great. Some years my bodyweight is not in surplus and I've gained tons of size and strength still. Literally I've been 170-180 lbs for years and years and my arms are 17.2". Bench is 380lbs. I've did the bulk cut 3 times in my 20 years of lifting. For me I main gain while fat. I get to 16-18% and I ride that % and haven't cut in 3 years for abs...but I am 100% getting more muscle at the 180lb standstill that I've been for the past 2 years. And no I don't need much discipline to maingain at 16% lol I get to eat a ton. Also the bulk cut bulk cut cycle is too short for me. For me I'd rather bulk for a year or 2 straight
the only thing that's really stressing and requires a shit ton of willpower is to start a big bulk where you can eat all the stuff that you want getting into the loop of food and sugar addiction for months till it becomes a habit, and then have to cut back everything and fight against the sugar addiction you have developed in those months. 99% of people on YT and forums are not pros, never forget this. For people like me, we have to be extremely careful in what we do, once that door is open, closing it becomes extremely difficult
Cutting for me is really hard. .. i had to eat like hell to gain weight 180 to 210. Over ate and added to much fat personally for me. Now trying to drop that weight is super hard. Been 200+ since and i got used to eating more than I used to
I think maingaining it mostly better for the majority of people, but some people are ok with bulk and cut, it's just personal preference. Both have pros and cons. Maingaining can sometimes feel like spinning your wheels. I prefer maingaining, but it's a lot less "fun" and motivating than a bulk and cut. Bulk and cut is much more fun. Eating loads and hitting huge numbers on your bench or deadlifts etc is really fun and very motivating. The cutting ends up having the same type of motivation, getting leaner and leaner each week. My opinion, which means nothing, maingaining for everyone. IF you love to bulk and cut though, then that motivation from just the love of it is better than maingaining. Motivation and FUN are the most imporatnt thing in the end.
I tried to maingain for almost two years...absolutely the most difficult way I've ever tried to build muscle and strength. 6 months into a whole food, minimal processed food bulk I've gained a really decent amount of muscle/strength. More then I have in the last 2 years maingaining. The bulk..for me at least, is the way to go
I remember chris bulking back in the day at the start of the bulk he did 315 for 3 reps on bench, at the end of the bulk i think he got 315 for 8 reps then he did his fasts cuts, as he does and once lean again he could only do 3 reps at 315lbs again. I see that as a wasted bulk. The only way you can maintain the size/ strength is to cut insanely slow and have breaks from cutting where you go to maintenance for a while, its a very long process to do it right. You cant gain 20/30lbs over 6 months and cut it in two months and keep the gains, it just isnt happening
While he lost a ton of the strength, he gained a ton of size. Especially on the first 'Fat Jones' series. His main goal is to develop the muscles not strength. But if you want to talk about strength, look at when he bulked up and blew his front squat to over 4 plates, when he cut he still maintained most of that strength and his legs reached a whole new level. His dirty bulk method worked for him and many other people! I've tried it myself and gained a ton but cutting back down requires a lot of dedication. It ain't for everyone but dirty bulking most definitely works.
@@keno104 Strength and size go hand in hand, if your movements are flat bench and incline say and neither lift goes up from one yr to the next then you arent getting bigger, whatever rep range you train in you need to get stronger to grow if it be more reps or more weight added. Chris has gained in other areas though, back legs, shoulders, arms, but dirty bulking is dumb, most dont keep many gains from it, which so many speak about on youtube and its also very unhealthy, i went into pre diabetic territory doing dirty bulks, high blood pressure to.
@@boneTHUGS111 dude there video that proof he was bigger his condition was night and day at same weight size and more cuts in the chest I've never dirty bulked in my life but the proof is there
I've been training for over a year and started watching a few months ago and once I switched my diet, I saw definition and I feel great, ive been making my gains and dropping my fat, I was 275 down to 232 and im almost there to my goal , this is perfect advice. What I think dude is just saying that regular people should dedicate their life to bodybuilding and bulk or you'll not put on size, but i can tell you ive seen me put on size while cutting down and it feels amazing!
You both make good points. The awnser is definitely not to get fat, never. BUT here’s where I agree with Chris. First of all, regardless if you have a healthy Bodyfat%. I think it makes sense to be in a surplus as you cant build muscle out of thin air. I think you simply need to provide the body with a little bit extra energy in order for it to build muscle. Not a lot tho. Another good point he made: when you bulk you might put on a lot of muscle and fat. And when you cut you lose some of that muscle. Even if thats the case, the body has muscle memory and once you dropped the bodyfat, you can then easily regain that lost muscle because of muscle memory. Once you’v been there its easy to get back, without putting on as much fat this time. I think the best thing to do is to do lean bulking. Slowly add weight. Be in a small surplus, perhaps 200 calories. You’ll slowly add weight and increase strength, while providing the body with a surplus of energy to build muscle.
Greg you're strawmaning what is said, he says if you're natural you might need to bulk, then you come up with the hypothetic of an overweight person, i mean ofc a fat guy shouldn't bulk, by the very fact that he already has adipose tissue, he's already getting the benefits of bulking, as to use extra energy to build muscle mass. Also you seem to believe that the vast majority of lifters are 20% bf+, and i don't really see that to be the case, atleast there are alot of us guys who have never been overweight, and won't gain any weight unless we press ourselves to do so all the time.
You need to send a muscle growth signal to the body to grow muscle via calories/protien. If you eat maintenence, all ur doing Is body recomp. Energy has to come from calories or your fat stores to build new muscle. That's why guys who are on gear can get better results while "maingaining" . Sorry greg, you did not maingain your whole life. You did bulk/cut until you decided to stop body building and got on HRT. People are not blind. You were 20% body fat at some points. You cut down to 5%. Another video of do what I do now vs what I didn't do in last 20 years.
Bro you need to watch more coach Greg's videos. He bulked once in his younger days from 145lbs to 180lbs. Greg said he didn't build any muscle and looked worse. He also only bulked for powerlifting to break records for bench and deadlift. That's all. During his bodybuilding career, he states that he only maingains.
greg talks about doing all these shows and competitions supposedly natural but cut out the part of chris' video where he talked about greg testing positive at a tested powerlifting and having his records rescinded lol
greg is like the kid in the classroom that is kind but very judgemental and often seeks an argument and when it arrives he tries to make it seem like they misunderstood him
Yes because promoting 15% bf is being judgmental and argument seeking. Maybe he should be like you and spend his free time writing hateful RUclips comments.
It all depends on your goals. From my personal experience on dirty bulking is I’m all about being as strong as possible and getting results fast as possible. So my increase in strength and size has been far better dirty bulking than to eat clean the results don’t come better and slower gains. So it varies what your training for. For me it’s about strength and size, but over the years I been eating not as dirty as before but I don’t eat clean a lot too I mix the two. Like 2-4 cups of rice and lean ground beef is my post workout meal but I’ll have some cookies and chocolate milk later on if u wanted to. I think it’s ok to have a mixture of dirty bulk and eating clean. But if your some competitive bodybuilder then u probably have to be more on the clean side instead of doing a Lee Priest dirty bulk. But I agree with Chris Jones because my arms and chest got huge for being in a high calorie and carb surplus bulking up for 8 months at a time.
I’m 27years old and been training for 3years now. I was naturally so skinny too. I have never really “bulked”. I’ve been maingaining the whole time and now my physique got to the point where people come up to me and ask advise at the gym, some ppl even told me I look like I compete. I don’t understand why people need to “bulk up” and “cut”as long as they have enough bf to grow muscle. It’s just unnecessary trouble for no reason to me.
I like that he calls out on people. I don’t think it’s to be malicious but to inform people. The information may put the person for shame but it puts reality on what is obtainable and reasons why something’s are they way they are. While I find it shocking watching his show, but it puts reality into check, which sometime we need from time to time. Subscribe.
I really don't understand why people who preach bulking don't seem to understand that having bodyfat% at around 15% is OPTIMAL. It means that going too far below makes it worse and going too far up is also worse. It's not the method that's wrong, it's that stubborn ego to not want to admit that Coach is right and you are wrong that is wrong.
15% is optimal for what? Looking sexy? Longevity maybe? 15% if not optimal for fucing strength and muscle I'll tell you that much. I used to be very fat and very strong. I weigh 170 now I used to be 240 man. I lost weight slowly over the course of a long time and bro, I never stopped lifting but my strength has literally been cut in half. I look very good right now, and am still strong compared to the average lifter, but clearly you are not speaking from experiences. All the biggest lifts in history have been done by people that were clinically obese. 1000lb deadlift. The world record bench. Basically all of strong men are very fat and very strong. None of them can see their abbs, I'd the 25% body fat is low for a strong man. I prefer to be my current size because I am healthy but bro, the strength and muscle you gain from bulking is not even comparable to maingaining, anybody who has ever bulked will agree with this. Maingaining is very possible, but very slow. VERY SLOW. And even thought I am not as strong as I was when I was fat, I look fing huge because of all the muscle I put on when being overweight, I didn't realize how much muscle I had truly put on untill I lost weight. Not way in he11 would it have been possible staying at the same bfp.
@@storyok3261 I'm not arguing that having more weight regardless of muscle or fat or even water gives you more leverage. So in terms of having bigger lifts I see one would gain weight. But that's not from having more muscles, it's from having less range of motion and spring effect from adepose tissue. What people don't understand is you don't build significantly more muscle just because you have more fat. As mentioned in this video, the energy required to build muscle is so minute you can build it without pretty much not eating any extra calories as long as you can train hard and recover. For most people that's close to 15%, not above 20%.
When I lost 32lbs in 3 months I did so by creating a roughly 500 calorie deficit and lifting my ass off with some moderate cardio daily. Here's the thing, at that time I had never heard of Coach Greg or "Maingaining" or "Body Recomp" or "Bulk and Cut" it was literally just the NATURAL, OBVIOUS way to achieve my goal. The Maingaining advice is dead nuts man, it's what your body WANTS to do.
Going off my experience I think now being 31 maingaining is working the best for my physique. I'm not starving myself at all, actually hitting 2500 calories but liking the way I look and slowly losing body fat. At around 16 now wanna get to 12%. I think going up and down on bodyfat (bulking and cutting) would stress me out physically and mentally and not offer for the stability I'm looking for.
There is no such thing as "Maingaining." You're either maintaining by eating enough calories to continuously weigh the same or you're gaining by being in a caloric surplus. If you're a natural, you can't just eat your maintenance rate of calories every day & expect to build muscle & build strength. Any strength gains that come are likely progression from technique of lifting or a false sense of progress by having your good days vs bad days in the gym. And if you decide to eat 200-300 calories more than maintenance & start making slow progress in muscle & strength that's called bulking. Greg's response is not defending Maingaining moreso than it is offending dirty bulking. Dirty bulking shouldn't even matter here. The topic is Maingaining. There is no such thing.
Yes there is such a thing. If you ate your maintenance calories and simply increased the protein in your diet your body can still create protein synthesis (turning nutrients into muscle tissue) by using your maintenance calories, the protein you ate and your existing body fat to convert it to muscle tissue. It’s a FACT
@@stylinwilliams There is literally no way you can eat the same amount of calories everyday for years and think you are going to gain any muscle 😂. Greg’s entire definition of “maingaining” has been changed so much to the point where he calls it “gaintaining” and he literally made a whole video about it. The funny part is that his definition of gaintaning is literally what bulking is, so no there is no such thing as maingaining 😂
If anything they can do a live discussion. Call out videos can often times act in ones favor but a live discussion between two parties can shed light on the matter clearly and concise. I mean, it was done for Thomas Delauer.
![Kumamoto Masters Japan 2024 | Gregoria Mariska Tunjung (INA) [5] vs. Akane Yamaguchi (JPN) [2] | F](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EIjZybhsWqA/mqdefault.jpg)
You didn’t even cover all of the points I made in my video. You “cut certain parts out” but that’s fine.. We will just agree to disagree on this topic Greg. Remember, in more than one video you said, “if you can’t see your abs you’re fat.” That’s is not a responsible statement to make to natural lifters, nor is that promoting a positive body image to the new generation of natural lifters. Thanks for the response though and have a good day🤝💪🏿
visible outline of abs doesn't mean 5 percent bodyfat.
I feel like I'm loosing braincells reading this
You guys need to do a zoom call together so you call go back and forth and talk the points out
@@nicholasingratta423 someone forgot to watch the video. He addresses every person on the population. Everyone needs to get to the healthy body fat for them. More and more people got this as this comment section had overwhelming response saying exactly what maingaining is and isn't. Even greg acknowledges that have abs isn't necessarily what people should strive for. Even a visible outline may not be in the cards. Nothing hard to understand about that. Maingaining is about finding a healthy bodyweight. Not struggling. Feeling your best. Being fat doesn't make u a bad person. Gaining fat on purpose when you are above your healthy weight is pointless.
@@nicholasingratta423 ps... Greg also says you should bulk if you're too lean. Ie... many people at 10 percent to 15 percent are too lean. And therfore they should bulk. Again. This should be crystal clear by now.
I’ve been watching Chris Jones channel for years, back to his original POG days. I learned a lot of tips from him from cooking to working out. I used to follow his bulk and cut routine and when I was younger it worked okay, I gained some strength and size. But it definitely was a little harder to lean out the older I got and as my body changed. Now pushing 30 and after watching Greg for a number of years, I’ve found the main gaining and low calorie dense foods work much better for me to stay lean but also put on muscle. I don’t think it’s a right vs wrong situation, I just think everyone is different and what might work for some people might not work for others. I could never take anything away from Chris with all of the people he’s helped and inspired over the years. At the end of the day, it comes down to what works for you and you have to try different things and absorb as much knowledge from wherever you can. Both of you guys are great role models 💪🏼
TLDR!
@@Joseph1NJ in the amount of time it took you to think about it, hit reply and type that and hit send, you could’ve read it. Sorry you’re not good at reading 🙁
@@JoshuaAndrewMusic I know, was just kidding 😁
Facts. I think it's a common feeling to just wanna get big when you're a teenager. When you get older it's wayyy harder to cut that weight off though 😂 Maingaining becomes a much better approach
This right here as someone in their mid-30s. I can still do a decent cut, however as I get older it takes longer and more planning. Also cutting at this age also affects my recovery and injuries will prevail in a large calorie deficit. It's easier for me to stay at a weight where I not only look and feel good, but optimize my recovery.
I love maingaining. I was morbidly obese my entire life and struggled to lose the fat. I was lazy, hated exercising, had a shit diet, lifting weights was a chore and almost everything I ate was high calorie dense garbage.
Once I lost the fat I decided to do a photo shoot. My coach and I pushed the fat loss to the leanest I had ever been, but I felt like shit. At the start of the weight loss process it was slow and steady but at the end it was aggressive
I had no energy, felt like shit and was losing muscle for sure.
Then I finally listened to coach Greg. I was trying to maintain too lean of a physique, because I thought I could. I thought I could stay lean as hell and build muscle slowly, but I didn’t have energy.
So I increased my calories slowly until I started to feel normal. Sex drive returned, I had energy in and out of the gym and was sleeping better than I ever have in my entire life.
I have maintained this zone ever since. When I feel like I’m looking too soft I decrease my calories a little bit. When I feel like I’m looking and feeling too lean, maybe not as energetic or as strong in the gym I’ll increase a little bit. Most of the time I look in the mirror and I like what I see.. so I just eat the same and try to stay in this place.
I’m content with the knowledge that building muscle is a slow process. I know in my heart I’m slowly growing and the important part is that I never want to look in the mirror and hate what I see
I’ve been morbidly obese. I know how I feel when I’m looking in the mirror and seeing a physique I despise. My main goal is health and longevity so I’d rather stay a healthy weight all the time than yo-yo up and down.
Thanks doc 💪
Well said! Thanks for sharing your story and congratulations 🎊 👏🏽
More drama than last time 🍿
I agree with the "maingain" approach, depending on your circumstance. One element that's not mentioned here is age. I'm 41 and I've been "maingaining" since my 30s. When I was younger, it was all about getting big (started at 16). And once I did get big (around 20), I started focusing on the bodybuilding lifestyle of bulking for 8 months and cutting down the last 4. And I did this for roughly a decade. But after sometime into my early 30s, the stress of carrying around so much weight (at 6'1" 220+ lbs) became more of a chore than anything. I realized I was aging and I didn't enjoy the bulk and cut routine like I did before. I found it more convenient and better overall to be lighter and harder year round. These days, I walk around at about 200 lbs, where my muscles are full and striated. I look better overall, and everyone around me agrees. And I feel better too...stronger, lighter and more capable. I can't imagine bulking up at 41, looking to cut down when I'm not getting paid to shows or TV adverts. In short, if you're young and ambitious about bodybuilding... Go ahead and bulk/cut. You'll impress yourself and learn about your body's physiology while at it. But if you're a grown man, with grown man responsibilities... I just say that maingaining is a much better approach to living a fit lifestyle.
Well said. I think it's a common feeling to just wanna get big when you're a teenager. When you get older it's wayyy harder to cut that weight off though 😂 Maingaining becomes a much better approach
@@HerculesFit 100%
I’m 43 and 6’2”. And I feel sluggish over 220lbs! 210-215 is my sweet spot. I lost 45lbs and that’s too hard to do after 40. I’ll main gain.
@@scantsrants7865 Exactly!
@@HerculesFit idk for me its easy and im very old i just finished my cut im maintaining for 2 months now at 96kg eating 3800 cals and im 63
These two greats have a lot in common. They need to have lunch then a hug. Love them both.
Going past 20% bf is honestly just plain irresponsible. That’s straight up getting fat on purpose.
60% of Americans
@@baranismus *70-80%
@@baranismus its not just america...
Low twenties in bf% isn't gonna harm anyone but approaching 30% is always a bad idea
Edit: or going over 30% I should say
Say that to all the big strongmen out there with big bellys
I hate that this new era of the fitness industry is so hungry for content that it has resulted in content creators constantly calling each other out for every little thing. Everyone’s different and what works for someone won’t work for someone else.
Agreed. Marc Lobiner made a video about this at Tiger Fitness. Grown men acting like a bunch of girls. I miss the old days with the likes of Ogus and Lex.
I know. They don't even make videos about lifting anymore. It's all just a bunch of pointless drama.
Ive tried many different diets and workouts and experimented with everything over the last 10 years. Some stuff works better than others, but none of it doesnt work. Some things just work better for certain people. The best advice people give is to just do whats best for you
Facts☝🏻
I'm cool with it when it leads to an educated argumentation like this one.
Chris is one of the first fitness guys I started watching back in the POG days 👏🏾
he still claims natural
Bad decision. Watch real bodybuilders
yep, chris helped sooo much
Mee too
Is he still natural??
Keep in mind… Jones didn’t say to get fat af… but rather than to gain muscle, a caloric surplus is better for a natural lifter. Which, if you’ve been natural your whole life and have been committed at least as decade… it is true.
Chris is the OG fitness RUclipsr I like some of Greg’s stuff but these fanboys need to chill
Coach Greg doesn't disagree about eating a surplus. The disagreement is how much of a surplus is necessary.
I was a huge fan of Chris. He’s been around since the beginning, but facts are facts. Gaining extra weight is tiring. “Don’t bulk if you don’t need to, which most don’t need to.” That’s it.
Well nobody needs to lift in the first place, if you want to get bigger naturally bulking is the optimal way to go.
remember the swole nerd? xD
@@gromswowguide7927 you are assuming everyone has the same starting point.
@@thekostrus3105 And his infinite bulk! 😂🤣🤣
You are no longer a fan
Beast mode is my guy but I’m impressed with how Greg handled the criticism. Very classy 👏
Love yall both lol frfr yall keep it real no matter what and I've learned a tremendous amount of knowledge from yall both
I finally figured out who you remind me of. A cross between that guy who used to do the oxi clean infomercials and the "inconceivable!" Guy from Princess Bride.
Chris Jones was one of the first RUclipsrs I watched when i first started lifting.. did the whole dirty bulking.. but just like you mention, I already had enough or too much body fat, so while I did notice gains in size and strength, my schedule didn't allow me to workout and diet consistently.. I've started my own journey with a progressive overload/ maingain style.. keeping my calorie intake at a happy medium.. my common sense tells me that eventually, with consistent workout routines and calorie intake, my body fat will come to a happy medium also..
What he said about being at a reasonable body fat %, where you look good and feel good year round makes me think of Will Tennyson, he's such a great guy
He's at 16-18% bodyfat most of the time! That can be maintained, but the truth that nobody is talking about is that no matter what approach you use as a natural you won't get 20 inch arms and look like Arnold!
I think Chris & Greg are both right. The thing is, you can always "maingain" and cut. It doesn't just have to just be one of the three. I think it's a common feeling to just wanna get big when you're a teenager. When you get older though it's wayyy harder to cut that weight off 😂 So maingaining becomes a much better approach
Definitely agree, that was similar to my comment. True when I was In my teens I loved getting huge , fat and muscle as long as I looked a beast in my t shirt I didn't care lol. Its a different story now I'm 40 lol
Nah in my opinion Greg is right and Chris is also right but at the same time he’s wrong cause yes bulking is very important if you’re skinny with low body fat but basically Chris is telling people that there’s no such thing as maingaining and that yo yo dieting is better than maintaining a healthy weight like coach Greg always preaches and Greg is right and not wrong cause like I said he preaches people to stay at a healthy weight for them and never said bulking is bad he’s saying don’t bulk if you’re 20%+ body fat and don’t cut if your single digit body fat he always say somewhere in the middle so you can feel good mentally and physically
I think I agree with everyone on this thread in some percentage my two cents is I had a wrestling coach who said anyone can look great if they eat like a pig lift and run/sprint
Just because someone uses PED’s doesn’t mean they can’t can’t give advice on doing it naturally.
People are entitled to workout however they choose.
I’m pretty sure Greg knows what he’s talking about. I’m a natural body builder, but I used a lot of Coach’s advice to get to where I am
Hey bd!
well i still agree somwhat with chris , a natural bodybuilder would know more about the struggles of being natural while lifting than someone who uses ped's , it just makes sense and while i think that personally i will never go on a dirty bulk im also aware thats its the fastest way to gain muscles
@@multechpro7151 yeah man Chris mentioned in that video that post cut, into the reverse diet is where the muscle memory from the dirty bulk will come into play and u will see better gains then the main gaining which makes sense for sure
@@multechpro7151 it's so strange seeing commentors who didn't even watch the video
@@multechpro7151 its Not its the fastest way to Put on fat
I can say that Chris' cutting strategies worked for me. I did hire him once to get me shredded and he took me down very easily from like 25% to 9%.
Anyway, I think you both make some decent points, but dirty bulking for most people is probably a bad idea.
Bro 25% to 9% is an extreme transformation.
Chris Jones talks sense. Methods always work
Yea. They both make great points. More than one way to skin a cat (excuse the expression 😂)
Why you use fake accounts for chris?
I’m just curious how much does it cost to pay Chris help me get shredded I just cant seem to do it on my own
Just came from Jones’ video. It was really refreshing hearing your 2 cents! Wish more people saw your videos.
I think one's mental health should be the biggest factor. When Chris Jones said "discipline," he actually meant to say "patience." While it does take discipline to stay committed to making slow gains, it takes patience to accept slow gains. For some people, it's mentally better for them to see their body change, for better or worse. When you look the same and you're doing things to look different; the longer you look the same, the more you'll feel like you're stagnant. That's just how it is.
Some people just don’t want to put in the work period, that’s want a quick easy fix. Simple
"Main Gaining" makes more sense to me.
Tbh, before knowing Greg D’s vidz were a thing I realised that all I had to do was “listen” to my body.
I trained at maintenance cals, got more muscle, then started getting hungrier and hungrier without making more gains in strength/muscle.
I literally added one friggin banana a day to my (high protein) diet, and I began gaining more strength and muscle. And the cycle repeated again.
So I truly do believe in this maingain theory. When I wanna prep for a vacation, I just “cut” for 6 weeks and I’m good.
And I’ve done many dirty bulks before cuz I thought this was the way. But I was disappointed after my cut and hard work.
So GD makes sense. At least to me
Yo that pause when he blanked out hahahahahahahaha. Shout out to the editor 🤣🤣🤣🤣
And that last time he started cursing like crazy, omg I cried 😂. I do the same thing unfortunately 😒😒
For me I’m not going to lie chris jones got me into the bodybuilding life style . I lost my weight and used his program and it works . On the flip side I will say it’s not for everyone because me and Chris have similar genetics /body type . But getting older it’s harder to bulk and cut and easier to main gain . I feel the bulk and cut method is good for a few cycles and then you maintain and then increase incrementally
I can see both points of view, and when I was younger i adopted more of beast mode Jones routine, but now im older its too much on my system to pile on weight, not only that but I found it hard on my natural test level and cholesterol. For me personally I only bulk around 10 to 12 pounds that way its much easier to loose that weight and its way less harsh on my body,
Since may/june 2020, I've been following Greg and have seen lots of results at the gym. At 15 I was at my heaviest of 116kg at 5"5 30% bf. In 3 years I was able to drop down to 74-72kg and during this period where I've maintained the same bw, I got frustrated and got into bulking in late 2020 in hopes of "blowing up". I gained 6kg of FAT mainly, but in the beginning I thought I was gaining muscle, but later on I felt like shit because of how fat I looked. TL:DR: It's better to maintain a weight that YOU feel comfortable at to train and don't praise the idea of "eat big to get big".
Chris jones is my favorite natty bodybuilder. His content is valuable and should be followed. IMO. He says it varies person to person. Lets just get along fellas.
The strength gains are better on a bulk. For me I sacrificed abs but without getting a huge gut. I’d say medium bulks are worth it. Performance wise my best weight was around 192 where I was still slender. I maintained that until my strength started to stall. Lately I’ve been around 202-205. Really not THAT much weight gain but I can cut back down to 190 with a bit more added muscle and it won’t take forever and my strength jumped. I’d say find your best performance weight and over time maybe only add 10-12 pounds if you’re gonna bulk.
Can never imagine just to gain some strength I have to sacrifice my abs.
But thats just me
@@ostrichcum9369 I would rather perform than have abs.
@@phillipcummings3518 I'd only care if i was competing tbh
@@ostrichcum9369 😆😆
Greg you are the best period!!!
I have to agree with you on this 100%. I am a natural lifter, been doing it for 15 years now. And in the beginning of my journey I did dirty bulking and I did get big and fat. A year ago I main gain for about 6 months and i liked it. Gained muscle and started to lean out. Now im going up 10 lbs and main gaining again. looking good so far
A video on Camp Knut, where a body builder helps streamers try to get fit in 30 days, would be a very interesting video. Thanks for all the help coach
I’ve actually raised my calorie count this week because of coach Greg in an attempt to maingain. I hoping to report some great results by next summer.
You will! Did the same here drastic improvement in strenght and size... I probably done more in the last 6 to 8 months than the 2 years prior trying to stay too lean( at that point)... Good luck and don't forget to focus on the quality of your sets opposed to volume!!! That was another game changer for me
I love both you guys Beastmode Jones and Greg doucette no homo 😁 you both have great perspectives to bodybuilding you both give great information keep up the good work guys thank you both 💪🏾💪🏾
After a year of seeing Greg’s videos and the maingaining controversy plus actively training weight loss clients, people genuinely just don’t understand what maingaining really means as far where it relates to them and their bodyfat and their nutrition. Very few people actually know what their best bodyfat is and where their real maintenance calories are, it takes time to find that and once you have them maingaining can apply perfectly. THIS IS WHAT GREG SAYS but people still can’t relate it to themselves.
Love both you guys hope you guys just agree to disagree…. Beast mode has been a personal trainer for me and Greg is my nutritionist. Both of you had a huge impact on who I am today
Chris is about as arrogant as they come. Can’t stand him.
@@Jay-hp6pu He has the mindset that because hes been on youtube for so long he just deserves so much more recognition even though he became irrelevant like 5 years ago
@@Jay-hp6pu Chris arrogant? Than what is Douche Set?
For me Jonni Shreve is a great trainer and Greg is a great nutritionist
Two people with two big egos who believe their way is the only correct way. At the end of the day, it's just two side of the same coin. Some people respond better to bulking and cutting, some people respond better to maingain. Why not just recommend trying both approach for couple of months and sticking to the one you enjoy and respond well to.
I been waiting years for this. I love Chris and Greg. It’s good these debates happen so the beginners get both sides of the coin.
gotta be honest maingaining is shit for me atleast, i counted every calorie but honestly the strength and muscle gains were negligable. i honestly prefer doing a proper bulk to gain strength and size. obviously dirty bulking isn't the way but it will build a shit ton of muscle and strength. maingaining made me look really soft for some reason.
Same here
Of course you get more strength and size, more fat and body mass makes you able to move more weights. Bulking is not healthy and won't make you gain more muscle in the long run
@@zembyron7306exactly you need mass to move mass
in the definition of maingaining for the coach is a bit different to calculating the calories just to your maintenance, the "maintenance calorie calculators" are extremely inaccurate, maingaining for greg is looking at yourself at the mirror from time to time, weighting yourself from time to time and think "hey i'm getting too fat" "i'm getting too lean" and triying to maintain your bodyfat from there while gaining muscle, no stress, that is "more or less" Chris Heria lifestyle but a little more easygoing. Also that type of nutrition is more sustainable since the older you get the harder it will be to get leaner, so how will you do at 55 years like "oh this is the end of my bulk, now I need to cut" you wont be able to use the same vigor from when you were younger. That is the strongest point of the coach and talks a bit about that in one of the videos for William Li.
@@idrinkwater1124 That is why strongmen are all above 20% bodyfat, but we aren't strongmen and we aren't making any profits from it so bulking up to more than 20% bodyfat is the same as taking tons of drugs to look like a bodybuilder without competing!
Chris has been going down the Elliot Hulse route for a couple years now. You can tell he’s been going crazy. At least with Elliot it’s entertaining with him it’s just sad.
my young naive ass followed Chris's dirty bulking protocol and looking back it was some of the dumbest shit I've done in my training career lmao
I agree… I bulked forever as a newbie, couldn’t breathe and my blood pressure was too high .. finally learned how to diet and wow I don’t ever think I’d “bulk” again
Crazy but dirty bulk worked for me. I was 165 at 6ft 1 and I am currently 220 athletic and able to hit powerlifting numbers on the main 3 lifts. As Chris Jones said, it works for certain people.
@@mel-el5862 idk how dirty your bulk was but I was approaching 200lbs at 5’5” lol mine was nasty… but 160 seems to be the sweet spot for me
@@mel-el5862 bulking for me is like a mini steroid cycle for naturals. My strength goes way up and I get crazy pumps. I make a lot of progress. Maingaining progress is so god damn slow, I can’t do it. Much more comfortable to be bulking and cutting.
@@SaggyJ 200 pounds at 5’5 means you went waaay overboard. That’s your fault for being an idiot. At the height of my bulks I’m at 205 and my heigh is 5’11.
Ive been lifting for 3 years+ now. 1st and 2nd year was on this heavy bulk cut diet thinking it is the best way to achieve that physique. for the 3rd year I decided to sit at 13% fat and just workout hard. I saw my best results in my third year. All of my numbers went up smoothly and even lost 2% of fat while working out with a man-gain. which resulted in my maintenance changing to 11% because I was eating the same the whole time. Also wanted to add how gruesome and shitty those first 2 years of heavy bulking and cutting was. It literally drained me for my days since I have a manual labor job being a hvac head technician. Just wanted to say that Coach Gregg knows his stuff and I've been listening to this guy ever since I started and couldn't be here with my physique without him. So just wanted to say thank you for everything and hope everything is well and blessed for you Gregg.
Good to see Chris’ mental clarity seems to be back.
Sadly many people have no clue what their maintenance calories are either because they are new to lifting or not disciplined enough to count and track. Bulking is a young man's game. It's what you do when you don't have the experience yet to understand nutrition is 75% of your gains. Once you get serious maingaining is absolutely the right approach and you will see amazing results.
Great advice as always coach! However, I believe it’s up to the individual for what’s works for them. Like many things, it’s hard to argue with absolutes; we all have different abilities that results in a multitude of variables for losing and gaining weight. To each his own..
Thats what he said..
Man Greg you nailed this guy this guy is talking about dirty bulk we are not even mentioning how hard is to shed weight at a older age
Nah chris right on this one. Can’t say you know more than a lifetime natural who is much bigger than you where when you where natty 15 or so years ago. I fw you Greg. This just my opinion. Been watching jones since POG
Wrong you didn't provide no evidence or facts to protect chris
Have you ever heard about something called "genetics"?
Being "bigger" has nothing to do with "being right".
@@mirziyodm exactly.
Wtf are u smoking? U basically said that some random trained 5 years at the gym without efficiency and dieting and then some bigger guy comes , determined, with a good diet and knows how to train properly. Basically u are saying that the moron that trained for 5 years knows much more just because he trained for a longer time. U are nothing more than an ignorant fuck, especially because Greg literally gave explanations that make sense, get lost
Greg did 40 something natural bodybuilding shows from his teens to his late 30s. Who do you think knows more about training and graining muscles and cutting naturally? 😂 Chris was your average lifter throughout his life until he got serious and became a trainer. He rarely does a serious cut. So who do you think knows more about maintaining muscles while cutting?
Ok, I'm really starting to enjoy your style of videos. Initially I felt like you were yelling, but now I'm like "Eh, that just Greg talking. He's ok, he's not yelling at me in this video". I still need to get a better understanding of the terminology that you use. I really appreciate your yelling style. It's really motivating me to get back to getting fit. At 53 and dealing with knee and life issues I thought I was done with trying to get fit. Also, I feel like you're absolutely right. Since you have the experience of dealing with various ways of body building that makes you the most qualified to give advice.
After 2-3 weeks of watching your videos I'm finally hitting subscribe button. Looking forward to seeing and hearing more from you. Again, thank you.
It really doesn’t matter as long as you choose what you want to do and you get the results you want. If you’re impatient, dirty hill then cut. If you don’t care how long it takes then stay lean and slowly progress. It’s not rocket science.
Salute to Greg and Chris 💪🏾💪🏼
This really depends on the person. For me, I've always been underweight and a pretty hard gainer. The dirty bulk works for me. For others, not so much.
This, I was 6'3 150lbs and extremely active. I decided to "dirty bulk" from a measly 2,000 to 4,000 while still remaining active in the gym and martial arts daily and I'm still "shredded". I maintained my visible muscle separation and all, I just look like a bigger version of myself
If you're underweight, sure. If you're already well over 20% then no. Bulking is dumb if you are already a higher bodyfat percentage.
Valid points on both sides. This should have been a face to face debate so nobody can twist the other's words. 💪
4:08 if your already fat , getting fatter isn't gonna help you 😂😂 - so simple and so true .
Actually it will! Yes you'll build more muscle and strength even as a steroid user or a natural! The problem is it's unhealthy as f*ck and if you're a young guy girls won't like you that much......also you'll have a high heart rate and feel tired! Strongmen and Powerlifters are always higher than 20% bodyfat so saying that bulking and gaining tons of fat doesn't build more muscle or strength is a huge lie! However most of us aren't powerlifters or strongmen so adding more than 20% bodyfat is the same as taking tons of drugs looking like a professional bodybuilder, but not competing in any bodybuilding show!
Chris jones is an OG when it comes to this RUclips fitness shit
I think I’m with Jones on this one bruh.
Me too fool
You don’t have to get fat During a Bulking Phase. What are you do is you get down to 10% body fat and only add a little bit of calories on top of your maintenance calories anywhere between 50 to 200 is really all you need. You bought between 10 to 15% body fat once you get to 15% body fat cut back down to 10% and bounce in between the 10 to 15% that’s it. I agree with Jones eating at maintenance calories and expecting to add muscle for somebody who is natural and has been lifting for a few years and hasn’t been off of lifting for quite some time isn’t gonna work.
Greg also knows how to train enchanced for a natural show LOL but I do believe that Chris and Greg are kind of targeting two different crowds, Greg talks to the majority of the population who are overweight or just trying to get in better shape which the man gaining and non bulk approach may be better
I've learned a lot of new things from Coach Greg about training and building muscle. However, for losing weight, it's never been my problem tbh cause it's much more straightforward with main-gaining approach at a healthy body fat. It's not rocket science, listen to your body, if you're feeling like crap then eat more CONTROLLABLY and stay there, and if you've built decent muscle that satisfies you and want to cut to see it more, then cut. That's just it :)
I have done all. Dirty bulk, maingain and slow bulk all has worked great. Some years my bodyweight is not in surplus and I've gained tons of size and strength still. Literally I've been 170-180 lbs for years and years and my arms are 17.2". Bench is 380lbs. I've did the bulk cut 3 times in my 20 years of lifting. For me I main gain while fat. I get to 16-18% and I ride that % and haven't cut in 3 years for abs...but I am 100% getting more muscle at the 180lb standstill that I've been for the past 2 years. And no I don't need much discipline to maingain at 16% lol I get to eat a ton. Also the bulk cut bulk cut cycle is too short for me. For me I'd rather bulk for a year or 2 straight
💯% agree
Dude!!!! How many more of these vids are gonna be made!?? Damn. The words dirty bulk and maingain have been 25 out of the past 30 videos.
Petition for Greg to do a natty or not on hstikkytokky
the only thing that's really stressing and requires a shit ton of willpower is to start a big bulk where you can eat all the stuff that you want getting into the loop of food and sugar addiction for months till it becomes a habit, and then have to cut back everything and fight against the sugar addiction you have developed in those months. 99% of people on YT and forums are not pros, never forget this. For people like me, we have to be extremely careful in what we do, once that door is open, closing it becomes extremely difficult
Hope Jones gets more subscribers from this. Been following him since the Spatula days back in 2012.
He doesn’t need subscribers, he’s already made it, he’s an OG.
@@MunirAybak Facts
Greg doucettes advice helped me greatly for years. Ive main gained for years and my lifts are great
Cutting for me is really hard. .. i had to eat like hell to gain weight 180 to 210. Over ate and added to much fat personally for me. Now trying to drop that weight is super hard. Been 200+ since and i got used to eating more than I used to
Great discussion.
Greg is correct 👏
I think maingaining it mostly better for the majority of people, but some people are ok with bulk and cut, it's just personal preference. Both have pros and cons.
Maingaining can sometimes feel like spinning your wheels. I prefer maingaining, but it's a lot less "fun" and motivating than a bulk and cut.
Bulk and cut is much more fun. Eating loads and hitting huge numbers on your bench or deadlifts etc is really fun and very motivating. The cutting ends up having the same type of motivation, getting leaner and leaner each week.
My opinion, which means nothing, maingaining for everyone. IF you love to bulk and cut though, then that motivation from just the love of it is better than maingaining. Motivation and FUN are the most imporatnt thing in the end.
Your the man Greg ! Makes perfect sense to main gain at a healthy body weight 👍🏼
I tried to maingain for almost two years...absolutely the most difficult way I've ever tried to build muscle and strength. 6 months into a whole food, minimal processed food bulk I've gained a really decent amount of muscle/strength. More then I have in the last 2 years maingaining. The bulk..for me at least, is the way to go
I remember chris bulking back in the day at the start of the bulk he did 315 for 3 reps on bench, at the end of the bulk i think he got 315 for 8 reps then he did his fasts cuts, as he does and once lean again he could only do 3 reps at 315lbs again. I see that as a wasted bulk. The only way you can maintain the size/ strength is to cut insanely slow and have breaks from cutting where you go to maintenance for a while, its a very long process to do it right. You cant gain 20/30lbs over 6 months and cut it in two months and keep the gains, it just isnt happening
His goal was always aesthetics over strength so it worked for him
While he lost a ton of the strength, he gained a ton of size. Especially on the first 'Fat Jones' series. His main goal is to develop the muscles not strength. But if you want to talk about strength, look at when he bulked up and blew his front squat to over 4 plates, when he cut he still maintained most of that strength and his legs reached a whole new level. His dirty bulk method worked for him and many other people! I've tried it myself and gained a ton but cutting back down requires a lot of dedication. It ain't for everyone but dirty bulking most definitely works.
He gained a lot of muscle though lol
@@keno104 Strength and size go hand in hand, if your movements are flat bench and incline say and neither lift goes up from one yr to the next then you arent getting bigger, whatever rep range you train in you need to get stronger to grow if it be more reps or more weight added. Chris has gained in other areas though, back legs, shoulders, arms, but dirty bulking is dumb, most dont keep many gains from it, which so many speak about on youtube and its also very unhealthy, i went into pre diabetic territory doing dirty bulks, high blood pressure to.
@@boneTHUGS111 dude there video that proof he was bigger his condition was night and day at same weight size and more cuts in the chest I've never dirty bulked in my life but the proof is there
I've been training for over a year and started watching a few months ago and once I switched my diet, I saw definition and I feel great, ive been making my gains and dropping my fat, I was 275 down to 232 and im almost there to my goal , this is perfect advice. What I think dude is just saying that regular people should dedicate their life to bodybuilding and bulk or you'll not put on size, but i can tell you ive seen me put on size while cutting down and it feels amazing!
For people who love food: dirty
For people who love being lean all the time: maingain
You both make good points. The awnser is definitely not to get fat, never. BUT here’s where I agree with Chris. First of all, regardless if you have a healthy Bodyfat%. I think it makes sense to be in a surplus as you cant build muscle out of thin air. I think you simply need to provide the body with a little bit extra energy in order for it to build muscle. Not a lot tho. Another good point he made: when you bulk you might put on a lot of muscle and fat. And when you cut you lose some of that muscle. Even if thats the case, the body has muscle memory and once you dropped the bodyfat, you can then easily regain that lost muscle because of muscle memory. Once you’v been there its easy to get back, without putting on as much fat this time. I think the best thing to do is to do lean bulking. Slowly add weight. Be in a small surplus, perhaps 200 calories. You’ll slowly add weight and increase strength, while providing the body with a surplus of energy to build muscle.
Chris Jones is the OG!! He’s natural and definitely knows better.
No, he's not.
Based off what?
I've been following chris for over a decade, amazing results and advice
Greg you're strawmaning what is said, he says if you're natural you might need to bulk, then you come up with the hypothetic of an overweight person, i mean ofc a fat guy shouldn't bulk, by the very fact that he already has adipose tissue, he's already getting the benefits of bulking, as to use extra energy to build muscle mass. Also you seem to believe that the vast majority of lifters are 20% bf+, and i don't really see that to be the case, atleast there are alot of us guys who have never been overweight, and won't gain any weight unless we press ourselves to do so all the time.
Cannot believe this is happening, feels like a movie 🍿 great entertainment 👍🏽✅
"if your already fat, getting fatter will not help you"
Yes! Been waiting for this one.
Salute to Chris
He critiqued
My Physique
🔥💯🔥
I watched it
@@phillipcummings3518 thanks bro 💯
You should see my latest one
I listened to his opinions on my weak points and brought them up
Great job greg. Every video is amazing keep up the great work
You need to send a muscle growth signal to the body to grow muscle via calories/protien.
If you eat maintenence, all ur doing Is body recomp. Energy has to come from calories or your fat stores to build new muscle. That's why guys who are on gear can get better results while "maingaining" .
Sorry greg, you did not maingain your whole life. You did bulk/cut until you decided to stop body building and got on HRT. People are not blind. You were 20% body fat at some points. You cut down to 5%. Another video of do what I do now vs what I didn't do in last 20 years.
Bro you need to watch more coach Greg's videos. He bulked once in his younger days from 145lbs to 180lbs. Greg said he didn't build any muscle and looked worse. He also only bulked for powerlifting to break records for bench and deadlift. That's all. During his bodybuilding career, he states that he only maingains.
💯
Take it easy Coach Greg!!!! You need to dial back on the CLENB!! your gonna have a heart attack!!😆😆😆😆😆
Used to love Chris. Watched him since the POG days. Now he’s weird and irrelevant just trying to be relevant again.
greg talks about doing all these shows and competitions supposedly natural but cut out the part of chris' video where he talked about greg testing positive at a tested powerlifting and having his records rescinded lol
greg is like the kid in the classroom that is kind but very judgemental and often seeks an argument and when it arrives he tries to make it seem like they misunderstood him
Yes because promoting 15% bf is being judgmental and argument seeking.
Maybe he should be like you and spend his free time writing hateful RUclips comments.
@@C0d0ps harsh word i prefer "critical"
I 100 per cent agree with coach on this subject
It all depends on your goals. From my personal experience on dirty bulking is I’m all about being as strong as possible and getting results fast as possible. So my increase in strength and size has been far better dirty bulking than to eat clean the results don’t come better and slower gains. So it varies what your training for. For me it’s about strength and size, but over the years I been eating not as dirty as before but I don’t eat clean a lot too I mix the two. Like 2-4 cups of rice and lean ground beef is my post workout meal but I’ll have some cookies and chocolate milk later on if u wanted to. I think it’s ok to have a mixture of dirty bulk and eating clean. But if your some competitive bodybuilder then u probably have to be more on the clean side instead of doing a Lee Priest dirty bulk. But I agree with Chris Jones because my arms and chest got huge for being in a high calorie and carb surplus bulking up for 8 months at a time.
Yes The Gregory Austin Beastmode response!! Lol
I’m 27years old and been training for 3years now. I was naturally so skinny too. I have never really “bulked”. I’ve been maingaining the whole time and now my physique got to the point where people come up to me and ask advise at the gym, some ppl even told me I look like I compete. I don’t understand why people need to “bulk up” and “cut”as long as they have enough bf to grow muscle. It’s just unnecessary trouble for no reason to me.
Exactly! Ain’t no one in hunter/gatherer days dirty bulking. Food was scarcer back then. They were maingaining!
Don't be afraid to bulk people, best way to build mass. Much easier to cut fat later than it is to build solid lean mass
That’s facts, bro and common sense. I don’t understand what the debate is about.
Coach! Can you make a video about IPF banning arching in the bench press?
Like all arching in general or just the excessive arches where a rep is 3 inch movement?
Ipf said they looking at limiting the amount of arching to stop the cheat arch
@@mrilikeskateboards minimum ROM would be a good idea
@@bviera96 ok, I get it. In that case it is fine, thanks for explaining 👍
@@mrilikeskateboards as long as they don’t ban it completely otherwise it is actually better because of the excessive arching
I like that he calls out on people. I don’t think it’s to be malicious but to inform people. The information may put the person for shame but it puts reality on what is obtainable and reasons why something’s are they way they are. While I find it shocking watching his show, but it puts reality into check, which sometime we need from time to time. Subscribe.
I really don't understand why people who preach bulking don't seem to understand that having bodyfat% at around 15% is OPTIMAL.
It means that going too far below makes it worse and going too far up is also worse.
It's not the method that's wrong, it's that stubborn ego to not want to admit that Coach is right and you are wrong that is wrong.
15% is optimal for what? Looking sexy? Longevity maybe? 15% if not optimal for fucing strength and muscle I'll tell you that much. I used to be very fat and very strong. I weigh 170 now I used to be 240 man. I lost weight slowly over the course of a long time and bro, I never stopped lifting but my strength has literally been cut in half. I look very good right now, and am still strong compared to the average lifter, but clearly you are not speaking from experiences. All the biggest lifts in history have been done by people that were clinically obese. 1000lb deadlift. The world record bench. Basically all of strong men are very fat and very strong. None of them can see their abbs, I'd the 25% body fat is low for a strong man. I prefer to be my current size because I am healthy but bro, the strength and muscle you gain from bulking is not even comparable to maingaining, anybody who has ever bulked will agree with this. Maingaining is very possible, but very slow. VERY SLOW. And even thought I am not as strong as I was when I was fat, I look fing huge because of all the muscle I put on when being overweight, I didn't realize how much muscle I had truly put on untill I lost weight. Not way in he11 would it have been possible staying at the same bfp.
@@storyok3261 I'm not arguing that having more weight regardless of muscle or fat or even water gives you more leverage.
So in terms of having bigger lifts I see one would gain weight. But that's not from having more muscles, it's from having less range of motion and spring effect from adepose tissue.
What people don't understand is you don't build significantly more muscle just because you have more fat. As mentioned in this video, the energy required to build muscle is so minute you can build it without pretty much not eating any extra calories as long as you can train hard and recover.
For most people that's close to 15%, not above 20%.
When I lost 32lbs in 3 months I did so by creating a roughly 500 calorie deficit and lifting my ass off with some moderate cardio daily. Here's the thing, at that time I had never heard of Coach Greg or "Maingaining" or "Body Recomp" or "Bulk and Cut" it was literally just the NATURAL, OBVIOUS way to achieve my goal.
The Maingaining advice is dead nuts man, it's what your body WANTS to do.
But maingaining is healthier and that's the goal lol
Greg has tried to redefine recomping and lean bulking for too long... It's annoying
He just calls it something different, he's not redefining anything it's the same old common sense it's always been wtf are you talking about
@@jtubef8620 so he's taking old concepts and redefining them... So he's a hack just like all the others.
Going off my experience I think now being 31 maingaining is working the best for my physique. I'm not starving myself at all, actually hitting 2500 calories but liking the way I look and slowly losing body fat. At around 16 now wanna get to 12%.
I think going up and down on bodyfat (bulking and cutting) would stress me out physically and mentally and not offer for the stability I'm looking for.
There is no such thing as "Maingaining." You're either maintaining by eating enough calories to continuously weigh the same or you're gaining by being in a caloric surplus. If you're a natural, you can't just eat your maintenance rate of calories every day & expect to build muscle & build strength. Any strength gains that come are likely progression from technique of lifting or a false sense of progress by having your good days vs bad days in the gym. And if you decide to eat 200-300 calories more than maintenance & start making slow progress in muscle & strength that's called bulking. Greg's response is not defending Maingaining moreso than it is offending dirty bulking. Dirty bulking shouldn't even matter here. The topic is Maingaining. There is no such thing.
ok boomer
Yes there is such a thing. If you ate your maintenance calories and simply increased the protein in your diet your body can still create protein synthesis (turning nutrients into muscle tissue) by using your maintenance calories, the protein you ate and your existing body fat to convert it to muscle tissue. It’s a FACT
@@stylinwilliams Keep dreaming and enjoy staying small for years to come
maingaining is a small surplus and micro cuts if your body fat % goes too high. Its not complete maintenance and never was.
@@stylinwilliams There is literally no way you can eat the same amount of calories everyday for years and think you are going to gain any muscle 😂. Greg’s entire definition of “maingaining” has been changed so much to the point where he calls it “gaintaining” and he literally made a whole video about it. The funny part is that his definition of gaintaning is literally what bulking is, so no there is no such thing as maingaining 😂
If anything they can do a live discussion.
Call out videos can often times act in ones favor but a live discussion between two parties can shed light on the matter clearly and concise. I mean, it was done for Thomas Delauer.