HOUSE OF THE DRAGON Episode 4 REVIEW and REACTION - Aemond's Decision, EXPLAINED!
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Lee Mazzio, Harriet Lengel-Enright, and Randolf Nombrado
Featuring
Brianna McLarty @briannatmclarty on Instagram and Tiktok!
Daryn Robinson x.com/daryn_2d... and / daryn_2dream
#HOTD #Episode4 #Dragons
Vhagar is known as the Queen of Dragons. She has always been referred to as a female dragon. This whole show is about women being looked over due to the men in their lives and the realm. She is the last of the three dragons that conquered Westeros. Put some respect on Nana Vhagar, she is a grumpy war vet and she is tired.
I'm so tired of watching ASOIAF RUclipsrs misgendering Vhagar.
Yesss she is ❤
@@stephaniefrancis9694
I know. I try not to let it bother me but damn...It's repeated plenty of times to not screw up on this
If they can't get the gender of the largest SHE dragon, then what else are they getting wrong 🤨
@@wendyc1902 Yes, and as @hissoka pointed out, it's actually important to one of the main themes of the entire story: women being overlooked. It's also significant to Aemond's nature, as he has a thing for older women.
As someone who is supposedly an expert on got getting vhagars gender wrong is super annoying. Even more so annoying is them both getting the three eyed raven wrong who is bloodraven and not born yet in hotd
Rhaenys standing up for her husbands bastards?!? Catelyn Stark could never
Indeed!
Catelyn Stark gets such a pass with people. She's awful and Ned would've kept his head if it
wasn't for
her.
His ass would be on the road for the Wall in 3,2,1😂😂😂
I think she saw where this was all going, and knew her husband would be alone. She wants her husband to embrace his bastards.
@@user-otzlixr yeah true. Rhaenys had nothing left besides Corlys and Catelyn was just so absorbed in her own kids for 14 yrs and anger at Ned for bringing him home that she never even called Jon by his name until saying “it should have been you (instead of bran).” when she was grieving over him falling. Rhaenys had nothing left and still showed compassion instead of anger or jealousy to her husband for being disloyal.
RIP Rhaenys, The Queen That Should've Been. She was best suited to rule given her wisdom, patience, and courage.
The Queen of our Hearts
Agreed ❤️
F
I really liked the character. For all the commentary about how the men of the show are thirsting for glory and war it is juxtaposed by Rhaenys' restraint in acting when she had the chance and it was her undoing. She should have killed the greens at the coronation when she had the chance. Daemon told her as much and she felt the weight of her inaction. Due to her failure in seizing the moment, Driftmark lost their heir in Lucerys, and it bothers her which is why she told Corliss to elevate his bastard earlier in the episode. Also, thousands of people will die in this war, but it could've all been prevented in a word, Dracarys. Guilt, vengeance, and her mistaking Aemond's intent when he hit Aegon instead of her, is why she turned around and it cost her everything. Tragic.
The bloodstains that used to be smallfolk in the Dragon Pit might disagree there...
"Angry soccer moms juiced up on White Claw" 🤣
That made me cackle 😂
It wasn't Rhaenys death that gutted me, it was her soot covered face that broke my heart. It read "I'm 55, I was passed over for the throne, I've lost both of my children, the intended heir to Driftmark was eaten by a dragon, I'm tired, and my husband spends tons of time away from me, and I'm constantly reminded that I didn't roast The Greens........"
And the fact this eposode she found out about his bastards
@@coffeeking9565 wait what bastards ? 😮
@@PlayerX218 during the episode, we found out that the guys who saved corlys at sea (the brothers who are repairing the ship in previous episodes), were actually his bastards son(s). Thats why rhaenys told the sailor "your mom mustve been beautiful" and got angry that Corlys didnt tell her.
So unless she found the sailor beautiful (which doesnt make sense in context), she mustve saw corlys' features in him- and was upset that 1) corlys cheated on her 20 years ago and/or 2) Corlys' refused to tell her didnt reward his own flesh and blood for such an act of courage. (Especially since Rhaenys has been looking for a blood heir to driftmark)
It was totally heartbreaking but showed her strength and integrity throughout this episode . It's a truly epic Targaryen death though, in contrast to the drunken "King" ,(I know he's not really dead) and the childish behaviour of the male characters in "playing" at war.
I think these were the key reasons why Rhaenys stayed:
1. Rhaenys encouraged avoiding war because she wanted to give the Greens a chance to change course. It's why she didn't light them up during the coronation. But the Greens kept marching, war had arrived, and she was the best chance the Blacks have (while Daemon is on his Luigi's Mansion divorce dad sidequest). After pushing mercy for so long, she had to at least try to stop the war here before it could get worse.
2. Rook's Rest is only a hop, skip ‘n’ jump away from Dragonstone and Driftmark, the Backs’ home base. Established in the last episode, there's nothing stopping the Greens from flying over and burning them to a crisp. Rhaenys shows up and sees that the Greens brought along their Boeing 747 right to their doorstep in a surprise attack. Even if Rhaenys fled when she had the chance, nothing could stop Aemond from following and decimating them all. And, as established in the first episode of the season, there WAS a chance for Meleys and Caraxes to defeat Vhagar. With that math, Rhaenys probably figured she could at least hurt the Greens enough to retreat - and, from the preview, that's exactly what happened. Sunfyre is grounded, Aegon is either dead or dying, and Vhagar seems injured.
3. With Sunfyre down, a safe assumption from her POV is that Aegon is dead. Meaning Aemond succeeds and would then sit on the throne. Since he hasn't appeared on the show yet and going off minimal context clues, I'm assuming Daeron must be young. He's also all the way in Oldtown. If Aemond is eliminated, the Greens lose their greatest weapon (Vhagar) and are screwed in terms of the succession game. The risk, to her, was worth it. Especially with all other points compounding on one another.
In my humble opinion, the show did a great job at sowing many reasons why Rhaenys would stay and fight til the end. For pride, for family, for potential victory. 💔 We'll miss you both, the Queen Who Never Was and her Red Queen!
"Second sons have nothing to do. The 2nd born sons are desperate to prove themselves and they often try to change the existing power structures to suit thier needs' - Prince Harry checking in proving nothing changes and ASOIAF mirrors real world stuff ALOT
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
The reason Rhaenys stays was bad writing. In the source material, once the fight started she never had a chance to flee. The books state "she did not flee," but once the fight started it didnt stop. Your number 2 comment really rings home with me, because I think that is what she is thinking in the books. I can't bring these back. However in the books, she goes all in on Sunfyre & the king. I feel this is a way to "even the score," in her eyes. They attack me & Rooks Rest, I'm at least taking 1 with me. She locked up Sunfyre, Vhagar descended down on both, raining dragonfire & ripping Meleys apart. All 3 dragons fall to the ground at once. Only Vhagar & her rider gets up unscathed. However the writing made it to where Aemond actually helped Rhaenys put down Ageon & Sunfyre. Now it's 1 v 1. Now she has a "free win," so to speak. She can go back to Dragons keep, get 3 dragons, and come back before the castle falls. If Vhagar follows them back, Meleys & Syrax are very capable of landing crippling blows while Vermax & Moondancer distracted her. Aemond obviously wasn't going to follow her back though, he was going to his brother when Rhaenys turned back. Rhaenys was well known for her wisdom & logic, yet they made her "Im dumb dragonrider." I HATED it for her!
Hard disagree. Terrible decision. Take one of their four dragons out and their King is alot better than dying, with or without damaging Aemond. Her turning around was her throwing.
@SouthernDrinkSlinger let's remember, GRRM said Hot D is meant to be the "true telling" of the Events of the Dance. The Measters both hated Black and Mushroom was known to embellish, that's why there are several accounts of the events. So let's be fine I'd the show isn't exactly tky like the books, Especially of it got the authors stamp of approval.
This would have been over if Rhaenys burnt them all in Season 1
This is the "why didnt the eagles just take the fellowship all the way to Mount Doom", then there'd be no story
@@MrSiriusAB not exactly. this moment is a show only scene. it's definitely a questionable writing choice
They did acknowledge that was a dumb choice on her part, and one that the Velaryons are going to regret next episode if the crowd cheering for Meleys' head being paraded through the streets is any indication.
@MrSiriusAB There would still be a story, just different factions. If Rhaenys took the throne after destroying the greens that is.
then she would be a kin & king slayer… raeneras claim to the throne would definitely be tainted
Vhagar is Female known as Queen of dragons
I think that when Aegon asked Alicent what he should do, she could have guided him to be a better king instead of telling him to do nothing. Confirming his sense of futility. When Jace is annoyed with Rhaynera, she guides him as the heir by sharing Aegon I's vision. Totally different relationships. The Greens won. They won that castle. They have troops on the ground. The blacks have no gathered army. Daemon has been at that keep for a week and has done nothing.
The castle that was obliterated by a falling, exploding dragon? No one won.
@@LaReinaZorra they don't need the castle. They need men.
Isn’t Vhagar female?…The Queen of dragons might I add.
Dragons can change their gender. In the got universe.
Vhagar IS female…. While they can change, I believe GRRM refers to Vhagar as “she/her.”
They can switch their genders depending on what role they wanna take but right now I think she is a she
These dragon “experts” are committing felonies by misgendering Vhagar
Yeah, I wasn’t the only one that caught that.. for an expert getting that wrong is 😅
Vhagar is female, by the way haha
Ikr? I keep wondering.
Yesssss that bothered me so much
Omg I pointed this out to @ScreenCrush in the last video! Stop misgendering our sweet grannie war lizard
Almost every reaction channel says he... It's actually silly so many keep making this mistake
Aren't the gender of dragons different like they can swap like frogs ....or you just cant tell untill they lay eggs or something.
In feast Aemon in Bravos talks about how Dragons are spoken about in high Valyrian the gender is ambiguous. Thus the prince that was promised might be the princess that was promised
If this were a chess game, I'd say Rhaenys sacrificing herself in a heroic play take on Vhagar was like sacrificing your queen to take out the opponent queen.... bold move to sacrifice your strongest pieces. A sad moment in the story.
Only if your team ⚫️ team 💚 it was great for us
Was also fun to see vhagar pout like a mad puppy who couldn’t go on a walk
I loved that bit and had to rewind. She was so upset "Oh, maaan! How much longer?!" *pouty McPout*
Her! Vhagar, the "QUEEN" of All Dragons. Come ScreenCrush...
I belive that the return of rhaenys was dued she realized once aegon was dead by the fall of sunfyre, his heir would be aemond, which could be worse as king.
this makes sense. although, it was an irrational decision out of desperation in the heat of battle
Giberish
I wondered if she was looking for Christian Cole 😅 but irrespective of who she was going back for, she was brave and I think she knew she wasn't coming out of it 😢
Rhaenys felt guilty for not killing the greens at the coronation when she had a chance. Daemon said this and it got to her. Had she, a bunch of things would never have happened, and it weighed on her.
Also, she miscalculated Aemond's intent. She thought he couldn't control Vhaegar when he hit Aegon instead of her. She thought this was the best chance to get Aemond while he wasn't as skilled a dragon rider. But she was wrong and let him out of her sight and it cost her everything.
Not to mention shes been talking about doing anything for peace.
If she managed to kill aemond right there, she potentially couldve saved thousands of soldiers and civillians from being collateral damage.
If she had left, who knows when shell get the chance to fight aemond again. Weeks, months, or even years.
I think Rhaenys wanted to run back for help but wouldn't leave Rook's Rest alone for Vhagar to destroy it. She came to help protect it and is too honorable to run away to save herself. She fought valiantly and did a lot of damage to team Green. She is one of my favorite characters and will be sorely missed!! I also think this shows a fundamental difference between Greens and Blacks. Aemond ignored Cole's call and let his brother (the king) fight his own battle, then took advantage of Aegon's defeat to blast him. If he had acted with his brother, both would likely be unharmed and the Greens would still have Sunfyre. The Blacks wouldn't let their Queen go into battle. Jacaerys and Rhaenys both offered in her stead. Team Black loves and protects each other, while Team Green almost despises each other and just seeks power.
Nah I think it’s spot on that she wanted to wound vhagar as well as have a dragon riders death, just like her daughter Laena(vhagar’s previous rider) wanted for herself. I’m sure laena looked up to her mother as a dragon rider being that she was so curious about vhagars whereabouts and didn’t claim her dragon until later. So the notion Laena has about having a dragon riders death, likely came from her mothers Cloth. So Rhaenys saw an opportunity, and she bravely took it. Knowing she would die but hoping to critically wound vhagar, which it wasn’t critical but hopefully it will be helpful to daemon when he gets his turn.
@@Hotteststewpot🎯👏👏👏🔥😎
No, the Three Eyed Raven hasn’t been born yet. He’s presumed to be Brynden Rivers, a bastard great grandson of Daemon and Rhaenyra. He was the bastard of Aegon IV (son of Viserys II) and Melissa Blackwood making him half Targaryen and Blackwood. By the way, the Three Eyed Raven’s half brother was Aegor Rivers (son of Aegon IV and Bethany Bracken). The next big civil war after the Dance of Dragons was the Blackfyre rebellion. You could say all the wars of Westeros were fought between the Blackwoods and Brackens.
In the show at least, they definitely confirmed that the Three Eyed Raven is Bloodraven/Brynden Rivers. I think it's as true as R+L=J at this point.
One of the ASOIAF theorist, Gray Area I think, has started the idea that someone alive at this point could end up becoming the Three Eyed Raven BEFORE Bloodraven at some point though... I'm not sold on the idea but I'm watching for hints from this point forward...
Yeah I'm surprised Brianna agreed with that. No three eyed then til blackfyre rebellion which was a notably dragon free war
But if they have the ability to travel back in time….
👏👏👏🔥😎
I was about to say the same thing til I seen this. The blood raven had dark sister when he was sent to the wall so it would be hard for him to take it from daemon especially since he won’t be born any time soon 😂
This is an unpopular opinion, but I kinda feel bad for Aegon. Yes, I know Aegon's a s**thead, but TGC's performance is adding a level of nuance to the character that was unexpected. He's not Joffery 2.0.
Edit: Thx for being careful with casual spoilers, not like that asshat Paul.
He never asked to be king, and now that he is- no one respects that role.
His kid is dead, his wife is his sister, his brother disrespects him, and his mom is emotionally absent. The only thing he has going for him is the crown he never wanted
Truly a terrible circumstance
@@coffeeking9565 Very well said
It's the hallmark of a good actor when he can make a villain sympathetic
Yeah the portrayal of Aegon has been brilliant, and now I’m afraid he’s going to be in kind of coma / vegetative state while Aemond and Alicent fight over some kind of Regency. OK, a civil war within the Civil War. Could get interesting !
I kind of fell bad for Aegon as well. His mother had him out of duty and not love. His father didn't pay as much attention to him as he did Rhaenyra and didn't teach him anything about being a King. Then he was pushed into being King when he didn't want to be. His son was brutally slaughtered. His brother shows him up and the rest of the counsel pay no attention to him. The one time he tried to be a leader and do good things for his people, his Hand/Grandfather Otto basically told him he couldn't do it. As bad as he is, he isn't a psycho like Joffrey was.
What exactly was Aemond's plan?
Aemond: yeah its pretty sad, he got burnt by meleys and fell to the ground
Cole: how do you explain the giant gash in his chest, thats clearly from a sword
Aemond: (shruggs) beats me, probably her claws??
Did he stab him? I thought he was getting ready to when Cole saw him.
Anybody could have done it. If Aemond was never seen they could have blamed a traitor or assassin.
@@justincarpenter1197 that's what I mean, if Cole walked in on him, just after doing the act
Well ideally Cole wouldn't have shown up...
@@MrSiriusAB ok, I just assumed he stopped him before it happened
This episode was nothing but a game of Chess. Sacrifice your king, Start a new game and eliminate the queen (who never was) in 1 move! Did anyone else see a live action game of chess while watching this episode?
Yes! And the fact that the battle was at “rook’s” rest?!
@@AlexandraGutierrezD thank you! Glad I wasn’t the only one!! Can’t wait to see how this unfolds next week.
It wasn’t a sacrifice your king move though, that was not the plan as well as the game didn’t start over, the King is still alive. If anything what’s more of a chess nod, aside from rooks rest, is that Aegon the King is suppose to do nothing, and let everyone run the kingdom, like a chess board, the King has the least power. I think for future episodes, Aegon will continue to be king even though he’s burnt and broken, but everyone else will run the kingdom and war as they please. And Aegon will indeed be forced to do nothing, alicent gets her wish, just in a more twisted way. She did say in episode one that there was hope that she could still control Aegon by keeping him passive. So it’s kind of a layered wish she had from episode 1 and now frustratingly said out loud and bold in the last episode.
@@Hotteststewpot I love your point of view. I think you’re right. Ultimately, the sacrifices had to be made. In this case, I’ll sacrifice a dragon for a dragon. And it was beautifully done!
Besides, in chess, if you “sacrifice” your king… the game is over.
u notice how the 2 younger ones were the ones having the dragons blow fire when Rhaenys just goes straight in cause she knows the fire wont kill other dragons
Shes so “experienced” in battle that the biggest and slowest dragon literally snuck up on her…. Yeah makes sense
@@Thisthat1234 She miscalculated Aemond's intent and skill. she thought that he was making a mistake when he hit Aegon instead of her.
Also, she was driven by the guilt of her inaction. Had she killed the greens when she had a chance, she could've prevented everything that has happened. She wouldn't have lost the heir to Driftmark in Lucerys which weighs on her and it's the reason she was telling Corliss to elevate his bastard to be his Heir in this same episode. She went after Aemond for revenge of a lost heir, because of the guilt of her missed opportunity, and because she thought he was unskilled as a dragon rider. She was wrong and paid the ultimate price.
@@Thisthat1234 to be fair, i dont think i could have predicted that godzilla hid behind the castle.
@@coffeeking9565Proper jump scare, that.
@@Thisthat1234 the problem is that this bigger older dragon is way more experienced in battle. It faked being mortally wounded and walked behind the castle instead of flying. Giving the impression that it was running away, when infact it was setting a trap.
Rhaenys tightened her saddle to stay with Meleys, but above the Gods Eye Daemond will do the opposite when fighting Vhagar and Aemond
The director mentioned that it was also for the upside down attack that they did against Vaghar to attack her talons.
That will probably be the finale of season 3. Rhaenyras death and hour of the wild for season 4
Rhaenys turning back into battle also could have been her last effort to help ignite the fire of the dragon inside Rhaenerya and her allies, while also echoing Rhaenerya's words at the prior Black Council scene, "I win the throne or I die."
Screen Crush team... There's an interview with Eve Best where she explains her character's motivations in her final moments. I found it on Twitter yesterday, it's not very long but it's a great explanation from an actress who clearly did her research into her character and took the time to get "in the character's skin".
Also, on the subject of the Three-Eyed Raven, no Bloodraven isn't even born yet. He comes later in the Targaryen dynasty. So he and Alys Rivers have no connection. Aside from perhaps magic related to the Old Gods and the weirwood trees.
Yep, it’s great - and the show’s podcast had an interview with Eve and Alan Taylor (the director) who discussed the details of battle. He talked about her belt strap in was to prepare for the inverted attack on Vaghar where Meleys attacked talon to talon like a bird of prey.
Glad someone pointed this out. Bloodraven/Brynden Rivers is from the time of Aegon V (100 years after the Dance of Dragons and 100 years prior to the main GOT story). However, that doesn't mean he's the first individual to be the 3-eyed raven, there could have been several prior to him similar to how Bran Stark inherits the title. Also Bloodraven is a Blackwood whose family follows the Old Gods and has ties to the God's Eye. It could be possible that Alys Rivers is an ancestor of Bloodraven by marrying into the Blackwood house.
Do you have the twitter link to her interview?
@@Axecon1 shit, you're right, I forgot about the Blackwood lineage of Bloodraven. So yeah, possible connection to him if she's an ancestor of his somehow. And yeah it's definitely possible that there was a 3-Eyed Raven before Brynden Rivers. I was mostly focusing on the fact that it can't be a direct (person to person) connection with Bloodraven because he isn't born yet. But thanks for reminding me about the Blackwood lineage. 🍺
I honestly feel bad for aegon.
And alicent's children in general.
Rhaenyra is constantly finding moments to show love and affection to her children, she's even kind to daemon and baela's daughters. But alicent is so harsh with aegon, like instead of motivating him to try and be better, she just wants him to be a puppet king for show.
If I had a mother like her, I won't be needing any more enemy
This is the generation cycle the Hightowers are suffering. Otto, Alicent’s father, was the same to her shown in the episode where Alicent wanted to confess to his father about her adultery with Ser Cole but Otto shut him down immediately. And even when Alicent was young her father used her as a pawn to advance his intentions to get closer to the throne. It’s very unfortunate Alicent had to grow up to that and pass it on to her children.
@@kokocute123 Adultery? Her husband died. Fornication, yes. Adultery, no.
Ryan deserves an Oscar for pretending these two are telling him anything he doesn’t know
They are both awful and make so many mistakes
The Will Ferrell bit was hilarious.
It was clear to me that Rhaenys knew she was going to her death and the only reason I can think of is that there was no way out. Running to Dragon Stone only brings the fight to the queen and her daughter and their dragons would just be lunch for Vhagar. So she chise to fight right there, maybe hurt that godzilla enough for Caraxes to bring her down later.
That Austin Powers Will Ferrell audio was brilliant. Love the reference. Have a like.
Oh man. I haven't watched this video yet, and I know _exactly_ what you're talking about. Lol.
Like most of the battles in the Dance, every fight ends in both sides losing, and neither really realizing it at the time.
That fight between the Cargyll Twins really sums it up, frankly:
It really doesn't matter who "won," they both lost.
The comment about this being a Second Sons' war, was right on the money. More nuanced/complex for sure but the climax of this if it is true from the books and not victim to skewed history, is all the more fitting for that statement.
Always made me think Daemon hates himself the most, and that's why he really can't stand Aemond who reminds him of himself constantly. I think they made/cast the characters to look alike in the show as well for a reason.
Meleys, never went to war with Alyssa Targaryen. During the Fourth Dornish war, king Jaehaerys I on Vermithor, Prince Aemon ( Rhaenys’ Father) on Caraxes and Prince Baelon ( Viserys and Daemon’s Father ) on Vhagar were the ones that went to battle. Alyssa Targaryen on Meleys didn’t . And Prince Aemon Targaryen died on Tarth due to a crossbow bolt intended for Lord Tarth while dealing with Myrish pirates. In the 4th episode of HOTD, when Rhaenys said we’re off to battle again old girl, I am not certain but she may have helped out Corlys during the Battle on the Stepstones, as it lasted several years more than what was shown on the show or it could be a reference to her patrolling over vast seas during the Velaryon fleet’s blockade of the Gullet, which may not be actual war, but it is flying endlessly knowing a dragon from the Green side could show up anytime. In Fire and Blood there is no reference of Meleys going to war before Rook’s rest.
I love and hate Aemond, i wanna see him win but lose as the same time
Remarkable acting
Hes a dawg. There all so relatable in a sense. Hes such a complex character.
Essentially that's what is going to happen here
That's on purpose for sure
I love Aemond. As a bullied smaller second son, his whole strife is so relatable
Honestly, I'd have loved a story where Rhaenyra annointed Rhaenys as her hand and didn't allow her to go to rook's rest because she was too valuable.. What if...
Yes! When she volunteered to go to Rook’s Rest I was like “Nooo” but looking around the table there was no one else. 🤷🏽♀️
@@juanasmith1901 that's true. Although Team black has more dragons there aren't very many who can actually make a lot of difference.
The Blacks miscalculated if and when Vhagar would be deployed, thinking the dragon would be at King's Landing defending it. War councils on both sides always think of sending dragons first, but we hear Aemond proposing another tactic instead (the "this war will not be won by dragons alone but with dragons flying behind armies of men" line). In fact, Cole is already carrying out their plan. It's worth noting they could have had Vhagar flying out in the open alongside the vanguard as a blatant show of force, but instead they surreptitiously hid him in the forest under camouflage. Since Team Black was focused solely on Cole's march under the assumption he was without dragon support, most likely bolstered by Baela's eyewitness account as well, thought Rhaenys riding Meleys into battle unaccompanied was enough. Team Black needs an S-Tier Master of Whisperers if they dare to win this war. How could Team Black be in the dark as to where Cole's army was located? Was there no one tracking Cole's movements on the ground? This stretches credulity a bit, given the use of scouts was already established in the lore.
Aemond was gonna merk his bro
Taking sibling rivalry to a whole new level.
@@arcturionblade1077 quite on par with GoT tbh
“Aemond did you try to kill your brother?”
Aemond: “As long as there are no follow up questions, the answer is no.”
HOTD makes the Acolyte look like a Junior Hign AV project.
So these “experts” can’t get the history of a fictional family right, much less the gender of the dragons?!
THIS.
they aren’t “scholars” on GOT... they are *friends* of the channel that got put in a video so they would have “experts”.
In GoT the show the Three-Eyed Raven is never explicitly identified, but in the books he is heavily suggested to be Brynden Rivers, Rhaenyra's great grandson (bastard son of Aegon IV, who was the son of Viserys II, one of Rhaenyra and Daemon's sons). So no, he wouldn't have been active during the Dance of the Dragons.
Daemon's plan for him & Rhaenys to go find & kill Vhagar before the war started was overlooked.
He was the only one who knew once Vhagar was dead war was essentially over
CGI animals hurt me as much as real animals when they die. The brontosaurus in JW2 had me bawling!!!!
Literally waiting for these after every episode @screencrush rocks
Aemond was clearly sheathing his sword when cole, interrupted and was far away from the bodies picking up the dagger.
He was going to kill him, if he didn’t half melt him on purpose maybe I’d see your point. Lol
Regarding riding Maelys back into battle, the books indicate that if it hadnt been a two on one battle, she might have stood a chance against vaegar
If the record keepers thought this, then maybe she did as well--after all, she did manage to take him down to the ground and went back to finish him off. I think there was confidence despite the odds
"You thinking what I'm thinking?"
-Aegon
"Yeah, Aim for the bushes!"
-Rhaenys
🎵There goes my Hero.....🎵
I think rhaenys saw the lack of experiance from the first shots, where vhagar came in and ended damaging sunfyre more than anything, and thought she had a chance. But that chomp is vhagars signature move.
I think they're missing the point about Rhaenys entirely.
Previously Daemon told her that if she was so concerned about avoiding the catastrophe of a Targaryen civil war, she could've ended it all before it started if she just burned them all when escaping King's Landing.
Rhaenys has constantly advocated for pursuing peace. But, in the moments before Rhaenys volunteers to go out to battle, Rhaenyra makes it known that after meeting with Alicent, she understands there is no other choice but all out war. Rhaenys knows now that it's over. The chance for peace is gone. Throughout the entire battle, you could see the sense of resignation on her face. And, it felt like for her, it all was a final atonement for her failures. Even before she left for Dragonstone, she tries to get things right with Corlys and his bastards.
She failed to protect the peace when escaping King's Landing. She failed to counsel Rhaenyra towards peace. She had Aegon, Aemond, and Vhagar and a shot at ending everything before it escalated further and she resigned herself to the minuscule chance that she could because it was the last chance.
Much that passes as idealism is disguised love of power - Bertrand Russell. This is a perfect quote for Queen Alicent Hightower and Ser Criston Cole.
I'm really enjoying these discussions! ❤
“Going drunk into battle.. Not a good idea”
Viking Berserker- Hold my psychedelic mushroom beer
Aemond clearly needs his own colors cuz he seems to be using the war for his own goals
I think rhaenys continues to fight bc she knew aemond was not going to let her leave. I think thats why you see her defeated face before she turn back.
I think she also looks that way bc she miscalculated if you recall from previous episode both she and rhaenyra believe the green would show restraint when using dragons but , they were wrong😢.
Alyse "joked" that she was an owl in a woman's body and it makes me wonder if she's been Bran'ed
The death of a dragon is so well done that I cry each time.
No one. No one wins in war.
Hmmm pretty sure the nazis lost WW2 and the allies won that one.
@@dr.wolfstar1765 yup, using meaningless platitudes
In the game of thrones your win or you die
Maybe that's why Arya won against the night king
Look up the word bankster, they win every single war every single time
Thank the old gods and the new for giving us a quality show to truly enjoy. Hope Disney is taking notes.
Complaining?
@@jimboshrump praising what we have here and asking for better elsewhere, can we not do that?
*Aegon* *II:* *A* *Tragic* *Figure*
Aegon just lost his son. Nobody in his family takes him seriously or seems to love him. And his own brother was out to kill him. Look, I know Aemond has been bullied since he was a kid. How in Ep. 1x6 The Princess and the Queen, we watch Aemond getting pranked by Aegon, Jace, and Luke with the Pink Dread because Aemond didn't have a dragon. Then we watched Aegon embarrass Aemond again in that whorehouse.
Aemond probably had several more instances of Aegon trying to shame him that viewers never saw. But Aemond "accidentally" killing Lucerys did lead to Blood and Cheese which led to his nephew's death. Accidental kills is still a kill and Team Black wouldn't know it. Why try to kill your brother when he just lost his son? No matter how much Daemon didn't get along with Viserys, he always loved his older brother. He was always out there to protect him no matter how many times Viserys banished him from King's Landing.
While commenters are saying Daemon is too busy playing Luigi's Mansion, I call it Castle of Illusions Starring Mickey Mouse, some say Silent Hill, at least the writers are making Daemon explore the guilt from his violent and rash actions. While Aemond is becoming more unremorseful for his. Maybe that's why we see Matt Daemon seeing Matt Aemond in that scene. Daemon and Aemond are going different directions processing their guilt. Daemon is in his 50s while Aemond is still a teenager. Aemond is starting to become like those Columbine shooters where he ends up hating the world.
Perhaps the Matt Aemond scene was to show that Daemon is the original Aemond and the less remorseful he is, the more he will be like current Aemond. Daemon and Aemond are mirror images of each other. It's young Sephiroth vs. old Sephiroth. Aemond is a reflection of what Daemon used to be 35 years prior. They're both excellent swordsmen. Daemon was knighted at 16. Both are educated as Daemon served as Master of Coin and Law. Aemond seems to be more patient. More cool and calculated. While Daemon can be brash and impatient like Anakin and Luke Skywalker. Reacts more on impulse without thinking things through. Aemond thinks more like Vito and Michael Corleone while Daemon is more like Sonny and Vincent and gets hotheaded quicker.
As much as viewers are feeling sympathetic towards Rhaenys and Meleys, although they did kill hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent smallfolk in Ep. 9 The Green Council, I think we should sympathize just as much towards Aegon II. He never wanted the throne. TV version turned him into a happy go lucky guy who only wants to get drunk and hang out with his boys. He's basically a frat boy. But nobody seems to love him except Sunfyre. Then his own brother tried to pull a Cain on Abel and Aegon is looking like Anakin after the Battle of Mustafar.
This was a drastic change where we see Aemond attack Aegon, because in the book, Aegon was part of the plot to ambush Rhaenys. Would Aegon remember Aemond trying to kill him or not? If he does and he can still speak, wouldn't he try to report him for it? Will he be able to talk? Aegon would need to talk for later seasons. He can't be just be some mute, crippled burnt victim with amnesia after Aemond tried to kill him. And why not Criston report what he saw? His newest war buddy was ready to kill the king.
It's actually a bastard move by Aemond. He is fighting for the Greens but tried to kill the guy he raises his banner for. But I guess his strategy will work because he gets to act like a king with Aegon on the sidelines. Still a dick move because Sunfyre got injured from it too and Sunfyre was never battle-tested. Aemond has already killed two of his kins and attempted on another. I personally love that Aemond is becoming the big dickwad in this and he seems to be in cahoots with the biggest dickwad in Criston. We all need a great villain to have compelling drama.
FYI: George R.R. Martin HATES the Greens. I believe he would mind if HBO whitewashes the Greens too much. He didn't seem to care how Blood and Cheese went down.
Aegon's humiliations -
Alicent pushing Aegon to the throne
Alicent hitting him in 1x7 Driftmark
Viserys screaming at him in 1x7 Driftmark
Has a loveless marriage with his sister
His son getting beheaded
Aemond embarrasses him in front of the council
Aemond trying to kill him
Perhaps the Daemon visions in Harrenhal does drag the story. But GrayArea (MJ) does have a great theory that Daemon will become a greenseer. And I think Daemon gets better character development from it. He needs to process the guilt from his actions. Matt Smith said the writers don't want to keep doing the same old thing. They want to explore different avenues with him. While you can see Alicent's face when talking to Rhaenyra on how Aemond is becoming a total monster. Most of these major characters are broken people.
Character Rankings
1. Daemon
2. Aemond
3. Rhaenys
4. Rhaenyra
5. Aegon II
6. Helaena (only true likable Green)
7. Alicent
8. Otto (this bastard is getting his by 2x8)
9. Jacaerys
10. Baela
Alicent had her most Cersei-like moment when talking with Aegon in that table. Getting drunk and telling Aegon to do absolutely nothing. Aegon is a victim from his own family. This is why he still acts like a frat boy. He gets drunk because everyone expects him to do absolutely nothing. He's a puppet king who was never taken seriously by Otto, Alicent, Viserys, Aemond, Criston, the entire council, and the smallfolk.
Aemond being a great tactician is NOT true. The Greens have less dragons than the Blacks. You don't try to injure one of your team's dragons with the limited dragons and riders you have because you have an axe to grind with your older brother. Poor Sunfyre. He didn't deserve being collateral damage because Aemond decided to target Aegon. Aemond has finally turned to the dark side and he's already reached a point of no return.
Finding more Dragonseeds and Battle of Gullet are coming up. Jacaerys takes the spotlight in the latter. 😢 Viewers may not be able to take what's going to happen next. More tears 😭. This is a sad tale to watch.
Makes me wonder how High Valaryian as a language of the ruling class survived to Dany in GoT.
I would assume that her brother new it and taught her. It's also spoken in Essos where she was raised and could have learned it there while with Illyrio.
I have been reflecting on Castle Harrenhal and noticed a detail that often goes overlooked: the castle was constructed on a Weirwood forest location. When building a castle, materials from the surrounding area are typically used. This means that wood from the Weirwood forest was likely utilized in its construction. Consequently, the combination of the blood of the people and the ancient magic inherent in the Weirwood trees might explain why Castle Harrenhal is considered haunted or magical.
Did anyone else notice during the Council meeting how Aemond was running the coin from the battle plan map with Ser Criston, over his knuckles and then dressing down his brother in High Valeryian…..?
Uhm. Vicerys didn’t struggle with “making a promise to Rhaenyra”. Don’t like that inference. He trained her and she is the only one of his heirs that’s LOYAL to his memory and to his cause. Period.
I love how eloquently Daryn articulates her thought process! SO GOOD, thank you!
RIP to Rhaenys and Meleys. I wish I could know the thoughts of Rhaenys when she made the decision to go back to try and end it. Part of me was thinking she regretted not taking the opportunity to kill the Greens when she had the chance. Daemon reinforcing that lack of decision could have foreshadowed her wanting to end it or it be her end. I also wondered if she felt she had the tactical advantage against Aemond and Vhagar. Not sure how hurt Meleys but even though Rhaenys did not have a ton of prior war and prior dragon on dragon fighting experience, she might have felt her longer connection with Meleys and just being wiser could be the difference in a fight with Aemond and perhaps she thought she could win.
They didn’t know Vhaegar was there or that sunfyre would be there that’s the whole point of cole and Aemond setting a trap and they also said last episode how the greens won’t risk leaving kings landing undefended so Vhaegar is gonna be there most of the time and Baela has still been scouting coles army movements and she didn’t see Vhaegar clearly cuz they were hiding her and Aemond so Rhaenyra didn’t make a mistake sending a dragon made sense they didn’t need multiple dragons to defend rooks rest from Cole’s army that’s why it was a smart play by Cole and aemond they were attacking a small useless castle strategically because they wanted to lure a dragon out to kill it wasn’t really hard to understand
This comment is hard to understand without any punctuation.
Love love love these women’s perspective on it! A mothers war requires a woman’s perspective and absolutely love their’s
I think the key relationship or comparison driving this episode is maybe the current king being unfit and Rhaenys being the most fit queen which also includes their literal comparison in battle
I always love these episodes discussion give more perspective from the book readers sides.
Rhaenys and meleys might not have been in a "war" together per se...but they had seen action in the narrow sea against pirates and sell swords while helping/guarding Corlys Velaryon's fleet.
Not the same three eyed raven. Brendyn Rivers(a Targ bastard) who becomes Bloodraven is born after the dance... He then becomes the three eyed raven after his time as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. He is one of George's most bad ass characters(imo).
No the old Three Eyed Raven is Bloodraven, who is the son of Aegon the Unworthy and a Blackwood princess. He was not conceived during the dance of dragons.
Just because Alys believe in the old gods doesn’t mean she is a wildling or from the North. Most Riverlords and people of the Riverlands are descendants of the First Men and some like Blackwoods kept worshiping the old gods while others like the Brackens and Tullys converted to Faith of Seven. So Alys Rivers could just be from the Riverlands, in fact based on the book description, it is likely she has been in the Riverlands forever.
The Three eyed Raven that we saw in GOT was named Brynden Rivers, who was actually a Targaryen Bastard born of Aegon IV (The unworthy) who in turn is actually....................*SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* the Son of Viserys II...Daemon and Rhaenyra´s younger son. So the three eyed raven is actually the great grandson of Daemon and Rhaenyra.
No that guy was cave for a thousand years so couldn't be Bloodraven.
@@sophiawilson8696 I'm pretty sure it's cannon both for the book and the show, he says he was once known as a lord named Brynden...and the description from Bran's POV reads that he has a blood mark on his cheek and around his neck...perhaps you're getting confused with the fact that he may have seen 1000 years or 1000 lives through the weriwoord trees...they can see into the past, the present and the furute.
Lady with the wired headphones made a great point. Rhaenys probably was thinking how she could have been Queen but didn’t put up the fight and now she finally has
5:12 Aegon's cheeseburger comeback: 'I can has war?' 😺
One thing that sprung to mind was how Rhaenys saw Aemond's skills as a dragon rider when she decided to turn back and not to flee. Aemond had just hit his brother and his dragon instead of Rhaenys and Meleys who were there in the fight. So if she doesn't know just how bad the relationship between the brothers is, she might have thought that Aemond is just incompetent and she would have an advantage in this regard. Rhaenys has not lived in King's Landing and definitively has not had interactions with Alicent's boys lately so she wouldn't know what's going on between the two opponents.
rhaenyra's youngest viserys II had 3 children: Aegon IV, Aemon the dragon knight, and Naerys Targaryen. it was aegon iv's son brynden rivers who was three eyed raven in GoT
Rhaenys was thinking… damn I wish I listened to daemon and went with him and caraxes to kingslanding to kill vhaegar. Daemon should of been king and viserys should of been hand and play with his valerian lego set
There was a wonderful theory that Aemond could read the Vilarian words on the knife because the dagger was piping hot from his brother being set on fire Aegon.
I don’t think Rhaenys had a chance to get away. Melys was injured and even though Vhagar is an absolute force, I do think Vhagar would’ve caught up to them.
So I think in that moment Rhaenys made a MASSIVE choice: Either flee and literally be looking back the entire time with an injured dragon that obviously needed rest or possibly, somehow, use Melys’ war experience and agility to potentially rip open Vhagar’s gargantuan torso and take her out in similar fashion to Sunfyre.
She knew they were massive underdogs but like my dad taught me as a kid, “if someone ever picks a fight with you always fight back. Because even though they might throw 4 and you only throw 2, they’ll remember what those 2 felt like that and think twice the second time”.
Rhaenys was flying low specifically looking for Aegon. She wanted to make sure he was dead.
Getting real sick of Metal Gear Vheagar sneak attacking. How tf do you not see that big ol girl? How does she keep getting away with these stealth attacks?
Exactly. From behind a tiny castle no less.
At 34:11, the Bloodraven was the three-eyed raven after the events of the House of the Dragon. Brynden Rivers
It's always heart wrenching when one of the dragons dies. They give them such character and life, that it feels the same as when a dog dies in a movie.
"I was like oh my God, that's sky Godzilla!" 😅😅 same lol
Rhaenyra made the biggest mistake so far and that's not knowing where Vagar was. That should be their number 1 priority at all times. If you know where Vagar is, you can a) try and kill him
B) pull a Rob Stark/Jamie Lannister and attack where your enemy is not.
Team black fell for Aemond and Coles plan. Luckily Aegon joined in an almost died.
If they knew where Vagar was, they could have made a better plan. Vagar is the key for both sides at this moment.
With Vhagar gone, there were no dragons protecting the city. Wasn't one of Rhayneses's granddaughters supposed to be doing that?
How don’t more people know Vhagar is female?
@@jillg9108 100%. 1 of the many proactive things The Black Council could be doing in her absence.
It does seem as perhaps Baela had been keeping tabs on Cole and his ever growing host.
The point is... keep tabs on flying Godzilla.
@@DahNeeka-p2s you're right. My mistake.
33:48 The Three-Eyed Raven in GoT and in ASOIAF is Brynden Rivers. He hasn't been born yet at the time of the Dance of Dragons.
Aemond was sheathing his sword BECAUSE HE HAD SEEN THE CATS PAW DAGER, and was going to use that instead to "do the deed" at the crash site. He sheathes his sword, and bends down right there to pick up the dagger.
Aemond is good at turning his disadvantages into advantages. He's the overlooked, younger brother but he's tactile enough to control his brother's actions. Even though Vhagar is so big and kinda clunky, he's amazing at sneak attacks and hiding Vhagar.
I mean, based on absolutely nothing other than a vague memory, my recollection was that villain was a term for a high ranking household servant and in plays this role was the manipulating bad guy and so much of a trope that the "villain" became short hand for the antagonist.
In the GOT show, the 3 eyed raven could have been alive during HotD (and he isn't Targaryn).
In the books, the 3 eyed raven is Bloodraven (Brynden Rivers), who won't be born for decades yet.
Yay, the experts are back who told us about Lann the clever on the Field of Fire 🔥
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I love Daryn’s perspective on “The Queen that never was” motivations and character exploration 😊
Daryn Robinson knows her stuff. Bring her more often :)
Rhaenys let the greens live after Aegons coronation . She feels guilty for it after luke died and all this happened . When Daemon confronted her about it the look on her face said it all …. She already ran once .. never again . ep 2 I think when she is returning to dragon stone after flying the gullet on patrol . Daemon tried to convince her to fly to kings landing with him and she refuses he gets mad stating how she had the chance to burn all the greens and now Luke is dead . Rhaenys had no answer to that and Instead turned and walked away. Which is evidence in itself . This whole series not one person had been able to put Rhaenys In check and she always has a better remark after u have said yours . But this one time she did not and even immediately after walk-in away from daemon he continues w another demand of her to get back on her dragon and she tells him “ if you were the king” . She said nothin about the Luke comment . Meaning it weighs on her mind and she ultimately did regret it
The three eyed raven at this point in time is not Brynden Rivers at this point in the timeline, he’s not born yet. He only becomes the three eyed raven after the Knight of the seven kingdoms series (after the 1st or 2nd backfyre rebellion)
FINALLY the Austin Powers reference! The first thing that went through my head when we saw Aegon's body.
RHAENYS is no stranger to battle. Although not into war but she has fought on her dragon. We saw that when she returned to dragon stone covered in smoke and ash when daemon requested she return with him to KL To kill vhagar
She was patrolling the Gullet...
One major thing about Alys and Daemon’s interactions is that he’s the only one that can see her so far
I was thinking about the Wile E. Coyote canyon fall gag lol
Why would anyone think she couldn't outrun vhagar? She's literally the fastest dragon in history.
The books make it a point to say that the smaller younger dragons are faster and more maneuverable than the bigger dragons (ie vhaegar and vermithor)