I would amend the order of battle to say that the Swan Knights of Dol Amroth are not necessarily an elite unit of the regular Gondorian army, but rather were the personal armsmen of the Prince of Dol Amroth. Karen Fonstad gives a good estimate of army sizes in the Atlas of Middle-earth.
I think it is worth noting that even at its weakest, Gondor's army remained the best fighting force in Middle-Earth. They were just terribly outnumbered by their enemies in the late 3rd Age.
@@zayedbinimran957 Yes. Much more versatile with more training. Of course, a Gondorian army would get rekt invading the homes of Dwarves, same as Dwarves would get rekt in the open.
@@zayedbinimran957no. Gondor directly bordered 2 hostile territories (one being Mordor, no less) for hundreds of years and were never overran. Incomparable.
@@RhodesFireman Tolkien specifically taught Anglo-Saxon language studies and also general Anglo-Saxon history plus stories at oxford. He also translated many old English, or Anglo-Saxon stories himself because he thought he could do better and he loved the language. I do not know of any specific realms of teaching nor personal study of Tolkien's that corresponded with the eastern roman empire of late antiquity/early medieval ages, nor have I ever read anything in his words discussing the historical realm. He was a very very intelligent man, I do not presume he did not know much, but I DO KNOW about his deep ties with Anglo-Saxon language and history and his personal love for them both. TLDR, he knew more and liked them better.
Mordor is literally Turkey, middle earths map is sort of reminiscent of pre historic Europe. So Gondor being an allegory for Eastern Rome makes perfect sense.
Eastern Rome: focus on cavalry, imperial army units based in the capital, capital is a major trade port, army has horse archers, infantry are usually poorly trained levies, has beacons to warn the capital of invasion. Gondor: focus on highly trained heavy infantry, one elite unit based in the capital, capital is a mountain fortress, no horse archers, infantry are good, has beacons to warn allies of invasion. There are many similarities but they’re not fundamentally the same.
There are connections between the ERE and Gondor but the military is not one of them. The ERE was famous for its horse archers and it didn't really use levies, preferring huge armies in the beginning but later a mix of standing armies and small garrisons.
@@heofnorenown Actually, in certain points of Eastern Roman history, their infantry was also very prominant, such as during the Macedonian renaissance, but yeah, for most of the time, the cavalry was the MVP.
Given Tolkiens love of Anglo Saxon lore best described as a late Saxon/early medieval kingdom with retinue troops as well as unreliable levies from local lords who provide the bulk of the army but might hold these back for local defence e.g. against the Scots/Umbar. Dol Amroth is an anachronism although some heavy cavalry did exist as far back as Charlemagne and cataphracts.
Love Tolkien's naming conventions that are inspired by locations in Ethiopia. And before anyone says that Tolkien was not at least somewhat inspired by Ethiopia, I refer you to his "Sigelwara Land" essay from 1932, in which he explores the etymology of the Old English word for ancient Ethiopians and adapts his research into future works (The Hobbit was released 5 years later in 1937, and TLOR saga written after that): -Gondar --> Gondar; nobility, honor, history; waiting for Kings' return. (Won't bore with additional deep name similarities/characterizations between characters/locations/flora such as the white tree, etc). -Rohan --> Roha; horse riders with ancient roots in the high mountains; kings; "Wold" and "Emnet" (Rohan regions) are Amharic words for "Son" and "Faith" (Roha ie Lalibela is one of Ethiopia's holiest cities). -Shire --> Shire; lively, organized, community-oriented people. -Harad --> Harar; located towards the East geographically; temptous relations with other Ethiopian kingdoms. Deep characterization similarities in terms of temperament of inhabitants, geographic location, flora/fauna, history, etc. -Barad-dûr --> Bahir Dar; name similarity only. -Gorgoroth --> Gorgora; name similarity along with slightly similar characterizions (ie marshlands, expansive, sparsely populated).
I really regret that Tolkien didn't give us more information about the armies of Gondor, it would be very interesting to understand the details in depth. This opens up space for speculation with the information given to us. As stated in the video, the bulk of Gondor's professional army was made up of heavy infantry + archers + a small force of elite heavy cavalry. I imagine big formations with long spears/pikes and shieldwalls supported by archers with steel bows, this would be something like a combination of the Swiss pikemen from the Late Middle Ages + English longbowmen (two of the most powerful and efficient units of the Middle Ages). The infantry would hold off the enemy forces with a powerful phalanx while the archers protected behind would do their work, raining arrows incessantly on the enemy, with the support of a small, but elite, heavy cavalry. This force/combination would be formidable and unbeatable and it is no wonder that it dominated the battlefields of Middle-earth for so long, only having greater difficulties with more mobile forces like those of the Easterlings/Wainriders.
Man do I wish we had a book just about Aragorn's campaigns and him raising his children, Gondor with Aragorn as king is just the kind of fictional place I would love to just read about the yearly events and royal courts, and foreign dealing.
@@zayedbinimran957 Yep. As stated, most of Western and Southern Gondor were dealing with the Corsairs of Umbar, keeping large numbers pinned down away from Minas Tirith. When Aragorn came through and ran the Corsairs off, that freed up a lot of soldiers. I don't have the details in front of me to list the numbers, but there are some hints in the books. Like stated above, people expected/hoped for significantly more troops to arrive from the levies before the battle, up to 10x as much. That implies there WERE at least 10x as much soldiers potentially available. The Rohirrim, if I recall, had 6-7k cavalry. This was enough to initially break the siege of Minas Tirith, but as written, the appearance of the Black Fleet caused Eomer to think the battle was lost. So that had to be a large fleet, with many troops. And when it turned out to be Aragorn and Men of Gondor, that turned the battle into a rout. So while I'm not sure they ever gave numbers of ships or how many they carried, you gotta figure several thousand, maybe as many as 3-5k. Remember, Mordor had sent a force large enough to besiege and contain Minas Tirith, small enough that 6-7k of Rohan tipped the balance, ... but the Fleet had enough that it would flip it back if they were on the other side.
Lotr, as written by Tolkien, does not describe "realistic" fantasy, but rather romantic "arthurian" fantasy. Gondor is declining because they don't have a king. It does not matter who the steward is, or how willing the nobility is to cooperate. The very land of Gondor is in decline because they lack a (good) king. With the return of the king the land gets better. The land gets tamer, more fertile, beasts disappear etc. So yes, Elessars reign basically sees people sprouting out of the ground.
@@danielkristiansen2298 Hang on, Gondors decline ended under Aragorn because Sauron had been defeated and the realm was finally allowed the luxury to prosper in relative peace. I dont see how that is unrealistic?
Great job compiling this from wide spread and sparse information. 👍 After you finish Dale, I'm looking forward to a deep dive on Dorwinion's military in the Fourth Age, particularly their terrifying Chinchilla Riders.
Cool analysis. But I think the line between Gondorians of Númenórean decent and middle-men was probably much less prominent at the point of the War of the Ring. I imagine it would probably mainly still be a thing in the noble houses. One character (don't remember if its Faramir? think its chapter "Window in the west".) talks about just that and even says something to the effect of gondorians basically being the same as middle-men now. My guess is that at some point, the gondorians of númenórean decent who were commoners, not nobility, started inter-marrying more with the "local" middle-men to the extent that the two groups basically had assimilated into one people. Maybe they are "watered down númenóreans", or you can call them "upgraded middle-men". But this is what it means to be of "mixed stock" in Gondor. They probably are the common people of Gondor in the War of the Ring. Maybe in places like Minas Tirith itself, there still is a clear distinction among commoners between "pure" númenórean decent and middle-men, but I don't see that being the case elsewhere. The nobles, however, probably has a tradition of forming "political marriages" and managed their bloodlines and stuff a lot more. Therefore, they probably often made sure to marry their heirs to other noble bloodlines. The most important of these probably also were of númenórean decent: In the earlier times, Gondor probably assigned regional governors who would be of númenórean blood, right? These governors and their families, over time (remember this is a society who has developed for 3000 years), probably became the nobility of the "modern Gondor" in the late third age. Therefore, the nobility of Gondor, are the only ones left by the WotR, who can realistically claim to be of "proper" númenórean decent. So long story short: I think the "regular army" would probably be commoners from all over Gondor, of both númenórean and middle-men stock with no real differentiation between them, who volunteered to join the army and received training and equipment from the state. The levies then are of "mixed stock" to whatever extent is the case in their home-province. The levies of Dol Amroth and Pelargir probably appear more "true numenorean" in terms of culture and appearance, while levies from other places like Lossarnach, Lamedon and RInglo Vale might seem more unique and "outlandish". Just my opinion ofc :p
these gondorians managed to build huge cities in a matter of years and yet failed to construct a highway infrastructure for its territories for 3,000 years... no wonder they can't field an army
Hi Mr Earth Gandalf ^^ I'd like to add a video petition. What is there to know about the military structure of the elves of the third age? If there's any info or basis for interesting speculation. I remember reading somewhere, for example, that centuries of fighting against the shadow of Dol Guldur forced the elves of mirkwood to become more militarized which is not something they really liked or enjoyed. I'm curious how the late elves, that were few in number and as far as I can tell very loosely organized, would put together an army for example to fight off Sauron's attack against Lothlorien and the elven realm in the war of the ring.
Gondor's military: -The wall on the left -The left side frame -The lintel -The part of the hinges that remain stuck to the wall -The right side frame -The right side wall
very few, after the civil war and then the great plague most pure numenoreans had been slain or died. The line of stewards were Numenorian, though not as highborn as Aragorn and his Dunedain. As far as we are told, only Aragorn and his rangers remained pure -blood, though there definitely were a reasonable amount of citizens able to claim mixed Numenorian decent still in Gondor at the time of the War of the Ring.
The structure of the military in the 3rd Age reminds me of trying to use mainly troops from a bunch of puppet nations in HOI4. Odd that the LOTR mod doesn't have Gondor set up that way. Only Dol Amroth is a puppet, last time I checked. Given how decentralized the country had become, it would make sense for all of the princedoms to be puppets, with Dol Amroth maybe being another level up towards Free, compared to the others, to indicate it's greater power and independence (since every mod insists on that being a thing).
Though Gondor reminded the strongest of the free kingdoms, how about the armies of thranduil And Lorien? How were there so few men in the Gondor army? Does anyone know about the rough guesstimate population of Gondor at the time of the war of the ring?
Gondor really should have had its capital farther away from Mordor. I get that they thought Sauron was defeated when they built the 3 cities, but in hindsight it was a full retard move. Put the capital near the mouth of the Aunduin or on the coast
Pelargir was a secondary capitol and far older. It was a great candidate for a move but the gondorian civil war removed that Option. Further west only Dol Amroth would have been an option but it already had a ruler. Also lets not forget that the Anduin is hard to cross, has St lässt a des fortresses and Minas Tiriths walls are massive so they can sustain a siege .
@@wilhelmrk I'm not saying abandon Minas Tirith, absolutely keep that, just don't have the capital be so close to Mordor. Having it be on the coast also makes it harder to siege properly. If anything, they needed a massive fortress on the Anduin after Osgiliath was destroyed and especially after Minas Ithil fell
You can't just "build a capital", you have to use existing population and infrastructure. The area around Osgiliath was very densely populated, very fertile and had great logistical support thanks to the Anduin. Like you said, they thought Sauron was destroyed, and even then built Durthang, Cirith Ungol, the towers of teeth as major fortresses to prevent further nonsense in Mordor. Minas Ithil was also a tremendous citadel, so Osgiliath was extremely well defended. The cities to the west just didn't have the size, population or prestige that Osgiliath did. And it took a brutal civil war and a horrific plague to weaken Gondor enough to allow for Saurons return. By the time they dealt with those disasters, they weren't in a position to build a new capital, and Minas Tirith was safer than Dol Amroth or Pelargir.
@happymradrian you literally can build a capital though because it's been done in real history lol. Idk why people argue just to argue on RUclips They chose a spot right next to mordor from the jump, which is a bad move. Period. You could move the capital anytime you wanted to a better location. Arnor did just that didn't they? From Anuminas to Fornost? Let's just be real. Tolkien wasn't perfect and Gondor placing it's biggest cities right next to Mordor is dumb. Why would the population be dense there if evil is right next door?
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy So was Tsar Peter the Great dumb because he moved Russian capital right to the border with Sweden? Or was Constantine the Great dumb because he moved Roman capital to the east, way closer to the border with Persia, Rome's main rival? Because information traveled quite slow during ancient times, having capital near the border gives some advantages - you will know that the enemies invaded before they devastate half your country, and since main regular army is stationed in the capital it is logistically easier to repell the invasion.
I mean, Melian did. But who would Sauron seem worthy as a partner? Also, he wouldn't share power with anyone, even his own kid. I think technically, yes, realistically no.
It is a terrifying thing to think about. I did hear of at least one Maiar that took the form of an Elf female who was able to concieve with an Elf male. But I think this varies wildly from individual to individual maiar. I highly doubt that a Balrog would be able to do the same, even though technically they belong to the same group. Sauron might have been able to in the past when he was less tainted. As the ages went past, however...and especially after he lost his body and had to rebuild a new one from scratch, that reportedly could barely be considered a living being, the existence of such a possibility becomes highly doubtful.
![The Battle For Middle-Earth II [Evil/Hard] [Remaster/HD] Mission 5: Mirkwood Road](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_8yoCjpmhG4/mqdefault.jpg)
I would amend the order of battle to say that the Swan Knights of Dol Amroth are not necessarily an elite unit of the regular Gondorian army, but rather were the personal armsmen of the Prince of Dol Amroth. Karen Fonstad gives a good estimate of army sizes in the Atlas of Middle-earth.
I think it is worth noting that even at its weakest, Gondor's army remained the best fighting force in Middle-Earth. They were just terribly outnumbered by their enemies in the late 3rd Age.
Better than the dwarves?
@@zayedbinimran957Definitely.
@@zayedbinimran957 Yes. Much more versatile with more training. Of course, a Gondorian army would get rekt invading the homes of Dwarves, same as Dwarves would get rekt in the open.
@@ProvidenceNL so it's safe to say that the dwarves and gondorians were equal and better in their own fields of battle
@@zayedbinimran957no. Gondor directly bordered 2 hostile territories (one being Mordor, no less) for hundreds of years and were never overran. Incomparable.
I always remember the heroic Forlong Lord of Lossarnach who though old and fat, bravely fought and died in the battle.
I find it surprising that Rohan gets a fairly detailed description of its armed forces but the other realms do not. I wonder why that is.
Not relevant. Weren't the books long enough already?
Its because Rohan was heavily based off of the Anglo Saxons, a culture Tolkien knew a great deal about and also loved, in study at least.
@@LeRoiDuFresneexactly and gondor is eastern roman empire which he also adored. Tolkien was such a man of words
Because he had the time?
@@RhodesFireman Tolkien specifically taught Anglo-Saxon language studies and also general Anglo-Saxon history plus stories at oxford. He also translated many old English, or Anglo-Saxon stories himself because he thought he could do better and he loved the language. I do not know of any specific realms of teaching nor personal study of Tolkien's that corresponded with the eastern roman empire of late antiquity/early medieval ages, nor have I ever read anything in his words discussing the historical realm. He was a very very intelligent man, I do not presume he did not know much, but I DO KNOW about his deep ties with Anglo-Saxon language and history and his personal love for them both.
TLDR, he knew more and liked them better.
These wise words are some of the best themes drawn from Tolkien's works I've ever heard
Literally Eastern Roman Empire but in fantasy and against much worse enemy.
Mordor is literally Turkey, middle earths map is sort of reminiscent of pre historic Europe. So Gondor being an allegory for Eastern Rome makes perfect sense.
Eastern Rome: focus on cavalry, imperial army units based in the capital, capital is a major trade port, army has horse archers, infantry are usually poorly trained levies, has beacons to warn the capital of invasion.
Gondor: focus on highly trained heavy infantry, one elite unit based in the capital, capital is a mountain fortress, no horse archers, infantry are good, has beacons to warn allies of invasion.
There are many similarities but they’re not fundamentally the same.
There are connections between the ERE and Gondor but the military is not one of them. The ERE was famous for its horse archers and it didn't really use levies, preferring huge armies in the beginning but later a mix of standing armies and small garrisons.
@@heofnorenown Actually, in certain points of Eastern Roman history, their infantry was also very prominant, such as during the Macedonian renaissance, but yeah, for most of the time, the cavalry was the MVP.
Given Tolkiens love of Anglo Saxon lore best described as a late Saxon/early medieval kingdom with retinue troops as well as unreliable levies from local lords who provide the bulk of the army but might hold these back for local defence e.g. against the Scots/Umbar. Dol Amroth is an anachronism although some heavy cavalry did exist as far back as Charlemagne and cataphracts.
Love Tolkien's naming conventions that are inspired by locations in Ethiopia. And before anyone says that Tolkien was not at least somewhat inspired by Ethiopia, I refer you to his "Sigelwara Land" essay from 1932, in which he explores the etymology of the Old English word for ancient Ethiopians and adapts his research into future works (The Hobbit was released 5 years later in 1937, and TLOR saga written after that):
-Gondar --> Gondar; nobility, honor, history; waiting for Kings' return. (Won't bore with additional deep name similarities/characterizations between characters/locations/flora such as the white tree, etc).
-Rohan --> Roha; horse riders with ancient roots in the high mountains; kings; "Wold" and "Emnet" (Rohan regions) are Amharic words for "Son" and "Faith" (Roha ie Lalibela is one of Ethiopia's holiest cities).
-Shire --> Shire; lively, organized, community-oriented people.
-Harad --> Harar; located towards the East geographically; temptous relations with other Ethiopian kingdoms. Deep characterization similarities in terms of temperament of inhabitants, geographic location, flora/fauna, history, etc.
-Barad-dûr --> Bahir Dar; name similarity only.
-Gorgoroth --> Gorgora; name similarity along with slightly similar characterizions (ie marshlands, expansive, sparsely populated).
I really regret that Tolkien didn't give us more information about the armies of Gondor, it would be very interesting to understand the details in depth. This opens up space for speculation with the information given to us.
As stated in the video, the bulk of Gondor's professional army was made up of heavy infantry + archers + a small force of elite heavy cavalry.
I imagine big formations with long spears/pikes and shieldwalls supported by archers with steel bows, this would be something like a combination of the Swiss pikemen from the Late Middle Ages + English longbowmen (two of the most powerful and efficient units of the Middle Ages). The infantry would hold off the enemy forces with a powerful phalanx while the archers protected behind would do their work, raining arrows incessantly on the enemy, with the support of a small, but elite, heavy cavalry.
This force/combination would be formidable and unbeatable and it is no wonder that it dominated the battlefields of Middle-earth for so long, only having greater difficulties with more mobile forces like those of the Easterlings/Wainriders.
Man do I wish we had a book just about Aragorn's campaigns and him raising his children, Gondor with Aragorn as king is just the kind of fictional place I would love to just read about the yearly events and royal courts, and foreign dealing.
It's interesting seeing outer gondor in the corsairs of umbar expansion for lotro
I've actually been waiting for Outer Gondor for a long time so I can use footage from those zones.
@DarthGandalfYT Pinnath Gelin is really cool I think they did a great job building some of the cities in the area really well.
It seems like the minute Aragorn became king, the Gondorian army got a +2K to their ranks somehow, and the number just kept rising after the third age
He did bring them with him from the south
@@zayedbinimran957 Yep. As stated, most of Western and Southern Gondor were dealing with the Corsairs of Umbar, keeping large numbers pinned down away from Minas Tirith. When Aragorn came through and ran the Corsairs off, that freed up a lot of soldiers.
I don't have the details in front of me to list the numbers, but there are some hints in the books. Like stated above, people expected/hoped for significantly more troops to arrive from the levies before the battle, up to 10x as much. That implies there WERE at least 10x as much soldiers potentially available.
The Rohirrim, if I recall, had 6-7k cavalry. This was enough to initially break the siege of Minas Tirith, but as written, the appearance of the Black Fleet caused Eomer to think the battle was lost. So that had to be a large fleet, with many troops. And when it turned out to be Aragorn and Men of Gondor, that turned the battle into a rout. So while I'm not sure they ever gave numbers of ships or how many they carried, you gotta figure several thousand, maybe as many as 3-5k. Remember, Mordor had sent a force large enough to besiege and contain Minas Tirith, small enough that 6-7k of Rohan tipped the balance, ... but the Fleet had enough that it would flip it back if they were on the other side.
Lotr, as written by Tolkien, does not describe "realistic" fantasy, but rather romantic "arthurian" fantasy. Gondor is declining because they don't have a king. It does not matter who the steward is, or how willing the nobility is to cooperate. The very land of Gondor is in decline because they lack a (good) king. With the return of the king the land gets better. The land gets tamer, more fertile, beasts disappear etc. So yes, Elessars reign basically sees people sprouting out of the ground.
@@danielkristiansen2298 yeah that makes sense in a way that doesn’t really make sense
@@danielkristiansen2298 Hang on, Gondors decline ended under Aragorn because Sauron had been defeated and the realm was finally allowed the luxury to prosper in relative peace. I dont see how that is unrealistic?
1:49 - not many but arguably had the BEST cavalry in the knights of Dol Amroth. In the books they're described as better than the Rohirrim.
great understanding of Tolkien’s lore and themes. 💯
Great job compiling this from wide spread and sparse information. 👍
After you finish Dale, I'm looking forward to a deep dive on Dorwinion's military in the Fourth Age, particularly their terrifying Chinchilla Riders.
Cool vid, thanks for this
You have the best lotr vids
I have been waiting for some time now but i never knew it . Thank you Darth Gandalf the Great
I'm just trying to visually imagine a force of men-at-arms riding piggyback on a horde of angry peasants into battle...
Cool analysis. But I think the line between Gondorians of Númenórean decent and middle-men was probably much less prominent at the point of the War of the Ring. I imagine it would probably mainly still be a thing in the noble houses. One character (don't remember if its Faramir? think its chapter "Window in the west".) talks about just that and even says something to the effect of gondorians basically being the same as middle-men now.
My guess is that at some point, the gondorians of númenórean decent who were commoners, not nobility, started inter-marrying more with the "local" middle-men to the extent that the two groups basically had assimilated into one people. Maybe they are "watered down númenóreans", or you can call them "upgraded middle-men". But this is what it means to be of "mixed stock" in Gondor. They probably are the common people of Gondor in the War of the Ring. Maybe in places like Minas Tirith itself, there still is a clear distinction among commoners between "pure" númenórean decent and middle-men, but I don't see that being the case elsewhere.
The nobles, however, probably has a tradition of forming "political marriages" and managed their bloodlines and stuff a lot more. Therefore, they probably often made sure to marry their heirs to other noble bloodlines. The most important of these probably also were of númenórean decent: In the earlier times, Gondor probably assigned regional governors who would be of númenórean blood, right? These governors and their families, over time (remember this is a society who has developed for 3000 years), probably became the nobility of the "modern Gondor" in the late third age.
Therefore, the nobility of Gondor, are the only ones left by the WotR, who can realistically claim to be of "proper" númenórean decent.
So long story short: I think the "regular army" would probably be commoners from all over Gondor, of both númenórean and middle-men stock with no real differentiation between them, who volunteered to join the army and received training and equipment from the state.
The levies then are of "mixed stock" to whatever extent is the case in their home-province. The levies of Dol Amroth and Pelargir probably appear more "true numenorean" in terms of culture and appearance, while levies from other places like Lossarnach, Lamedon and RInglo Vale might seem more unique and "outlandish".
Just my opinion ofc :p
yooooo new Darth Gandalf just dropped
800 swan knights prince imrhil brought from dol amroth
Swan-knights and Men-at-arms. We don't know what the split was.
these gondorians managed to build huge cities in a matter of years and yet failed to construct a highway infrastructure for its territories for 3,000 years... no wonder they can't field an army
Hi Mr Earth Gandalf ^^ I'd like to add a video petition. What is there to know about the military structure of the elves of the third age? If there's any info or basis for interesting speculation. I remember reading somewhere, for example, that centuries of fighting against the shadow of Dol Guldur forced the elves of mirkwood to become more militarized which is not something they really liked or enjoyed. I'm curious how the late elves, that were few in number and as far as I can tell very loosely organized, would put together an army for example to fight off Sauron's attack against Lothlorien and the elven realm in the war of the ring.
Gondor's military:
-The wall on the left
-The left side frame
-The lintel
-The part of the hinges that remain stuck to the wall
-The right side frame
-The right side wall
Do a video on the Evolution of Rohans Military
How strong are Gondorian soldiers? I read/heard somewhere that each Gondorian soldier can take on several orcs at once.
Shows how much you know! REAL Men ride Orcs into battle #AngbangGang
Hi Darth!
Also how many pure numenorian or at least majority numenorian men like Aragorn do u think we’re left by 3019
very few, after the civil war and then the great plague most pure numenoreans had been slain or died. The line of stewards were Numenorian, though not as highborn as Aragorn and his Dunedain. As far as we are told, only Aragorn and his rangers remained pure -blood, though there definitely were a reasonable amount of citizens able to claim mixed Numenorian decent still in Gondor at the time of the War of the Ring.
@@sethnaffziger1402 sad Bruv
Fall of Gondolin Book Version.
The structure of the military in the 3rd Age reminds me of trying to use mainly troops from a bunch of puppet nations in HOI4. Odd that the LOTR mod doesn't have Gondor set up that way. Only Dol Amroth is a puppet, last time I checked. Given how decentralized the country had become, it would make sense for all of the princedoms to be puppets, with Dol Amroth maybe being another level up towards Free, compared to the others, to indicate it's greater power and independence (since every mod insists on that being a thing).
Though Gondor reminded the strongest of the free kingdoms, how about the armies of thranduil And Lorien?
How were there so few men in the Gondor army?
Does anyone know about the rough guesstimate population of Gondor at the time of the war of the ring?
600.000 and it is the largest realm. To me it seems very low but Middle Earth has very low population density.
@@amsfountain8792
I could see that though most would be in villages and tiny towns
Epic content 😊😮
I wonder how Gondor would compare to Numenor at its height.
Algormancy!
0:01
Well that last line was weird....
Yeah but where were they when the Westfold fell?
Where was Rohan when Minas tirith was attacked
Big pause for your closing comments Lmfao
I do wonder what military technology was lost with the fall of Numenor, not just the steam tech lost in Tolkiens drafts.
You can understand why Harondor hated Gondor.
They came from Numenor and basically said, this land is ours.
Gondor really should have had its capital farther away from Mordor. I get that they thought Sauron was defeated when they built the 3 cities, but in hindsight it was a full retard move. Put the capital near the mouth of the Aunduin or on the coast
Pelargir was a secondary capitol and far older. It was a great candidate for a move but the gondorian civil war removed that Option.
Further west only Dol Amroth would have been an option but it already had a ruler.
Also lets not forget that the Anduin is hard to cross, has St lässt a des fortresses and Minas Tiriths walls are massive so they can sustain a siege .
@@wilhelmrk I'm not saying abandon Minas Tirith, absolutely keep that, just don't have the capital be so close to Mordor. Having it be on the coast also makes it harder to siege properly. If anything, they needed a massive fortress on the Anduin after Osgiliath was destroyed and especially after Minas Ithil fell
You can't just "build a capital", you have to use existing population and infrastructure. The area around Osgiliath was very densely populated, very fertile and had great logistical support thanks to the Anduin. Like you said, they thought Sauron was destroyed, and even then built Durthang, Cirith Ungol, the towers of teeth as major fortresses to prevent further nonsense in Mordor. Minas Ithil was also a tremendous citadel, so Osgiliath was extremely well defended. The cities to the west just didn't have the size, population or prestige that Osgiliath did. And it took a brutal civil war and a horrific plague to weaken Gondor enough to allow for Saurons return. By the time they dealt with those disasters, they weren't in a position to build a new capital, and Minas Tirith was safer than Dol Amroth or Pelargir.
@happymradrian you literally can build a capital though because it's been done in real history lol. Idk why people argue just to argue on RUclips
They chose a spot right next to mordor from the jump, which is a bad move. Period. You could move the capital anytime you wanted to a better location. Arnor did just that didn't they? From Anuminas to Fornost?
Let's just be real. Tolkien wasn't perfect and Gondor placing it's biggest cities right next to Mordor is dumb. Why would the population be dense there if evil is right next door?
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy So was Tsar Peter the Great dumb because he moved Russian capital right to the border with Sweden? Or was Constantine the Great dumb because he moved Roman capital to the east, way closer to the border with Persia, Rome's main rival? Because information traveled quite slow during ancient times, having capital near the border gives some advantages - you will know that the enemies invaded before they devastate half your country, and since main regular army is stationed in the capital it is logistically easier to repell the invasion.
Here's an interesting question do you think Sauron could have children
I mean, Melian did. But who would Sauron seem worthy as a partner? Also, he wouldn't share power with anyone, even his own kid. I think technically, yes, realistically no.
It is a terrifying thing to think about.
I did hear of at least one Maiar that took the form of an Elf female who was able to concieve with an Elf male.
But I think this varies wildly from individual to individual maiar. I highly doubt that a Balrog would be able to do the same, even though technically they belong to the same group.
Sauron might have been able to in the past when he was less tainted. As the ages went past, however...and especially after he lost his body and had to rebuild a new one from scratch, that reportedly could barely be considered a living being, the existence of such a possibility becomes highly doubtful.
I developped a fan fiction, where the Mouth of Sauron is his son, and since Luthien is a shapeshifter, so is he and his children
@@MrTrakiiski imagine choosing to look like that though
Interesting point xD@@philkugler2429