I live with my single grown son. I call us "roommates." He has the upstairs and I have the downstairs. He mows once a week but otherwise I do just about all the rest of the gardening. We cook and eat separately, although we share the kitchen. He pays the lion's share of the bills and I do what I can to oversee maintenance of the home, as in suggesting we hire a plumber to do whatever and things like that. It's a wonderful situation! I have longed for a communal living situation my entire life! Thank you for bringing this up.
I don’t feel like we can say we “bucked the norm,” when the norm has been largely inaccessible to our generation. I’ve never lived in a multi-generational household, but I can see how the cost of living has priced out individualism. I moved out after graduating HS and it was difficult to get thru college, navigate the rental market, then the housing market by myself. In my 20s I had already decided that I would never retire because of how difficult it was to save for retirement while paying off student loans and paying rent. Individualism has driven my generation into a cycle of lifelong debt. Even if you don’t have any credit cards, the cost of education and the cost of housing (owning or renting) feeds on people suffering from a lack of support. We need a new system.
We're lucky enough to have 5 acres in the Scottish Highlands. It's tiny by highland farm standards, but is a massive amount of land compared to what we had previously. It's our intention to become a community within a few years, one way or another. It's likely to be a mix of family members and like-minded people, with a broad range of ages and skillsets. An advantage of Scottish land law is that anyone working a piece of land has the right to live on it. That's a game changer for most people, because in the rest of the UK there are strict planning laws that prohibit just buying land and living on it. Those restrictions act as a barrier to most people getting access to land, unless they have major assets. A farmhouse with 82 acres in the northwest of England recently sold for almost £1.5 million. Crofting law in Scotland keeps prices more accessible for most people, and the right to live on the land makes structures like yurts and tiny houses a viable option here. I'm a firm believer in multigenerational households, but also firmly believe the easiest way to reduce friction is for each family unit to have its own kitchen, and bathroom. Because of the space we have, we can accommodate that easily, and have a cluster of loosely connected households, each with a fair degree of autonomy, but with shared access and responsibility for the food forests, fuel systems, ponds, and spacious outdoor kitchens (as well as a few toys like a wood fired hot tub). The limiting factor in the yield of any piece of land is often human input, and that's certainly the case here. Even with each family unit having 1/10th of an acre for annual veg gardens, there's a huge amount of communal space. Far more than we need as a family of three (with two adult children), or can maximise in terms of production. We're middle aged. It's just not realistic to expect to be able to keep working the land to the degree we currently are, for many more years. We've designed the systems to be accessible as we age, such as paths wide enough for a wheelchair between the raised beds, and grab handles at entranceways, but we also need to plan for succession. Many permaculture systems seem to plan for succession in terms of shrub layers giving way to canopy tree systems and so on, without addressing the finite span of main biological agent within the system, the human. It's our hope that community will address this, to some degree.
10 acres in Ayrshire here, shared between grandparents, ( us) parents, a disabled nearly adult grandchild and young grandchildren. We are so pleased we created this more resilient unit so that B can get to know the people who will help look after him when we are long gone, but in the meantime it’s a joy to share a vision of regeneration of a habitat, sustainable living goals, permaculture development, the sweetness and fun of normally developing grandchildren, and know we have some financial security in the repayment our children make instead of being burdened with a mortgage… We’ve managed 18 months gradually becoming more independent as the conversion of a second building is starting, but sharing tools, labour, child care, meals and regular celebrations is such a lovely way to live. And yes, it may well extend to others as well, on a permanent or temporary basis. Definite economies of scale, and a glorious view to boot.. I think if you have enough in common, a multigenerational living situation is certainly one to consider ( totally agree about the need for some “own” Space though!) 🙂
I tried to move out of my parents house right when the pandemic started (like the day of the first lockdown in my state). It was good for me mentally but not financially so when the housing market went crazy at the end of last year and I got a new job I was forced to move back in with them. Which has been a struggle mentally, but great for me financially to be able to save so much money and start paying down debts I accumulated since college. I think the concept of living communally with people you choose is something that should be normalized. I think it would be easier to choose to live with family if you have good communication and healthy relationships, (like you seem to with your children). But for those of us who don’t have those kinds of relationships, where living with family causes massive amounts of stress. Finding people to live with who can be supportive and grow a household while fostering positive communication and understanding would be ideal.
I live in Orange County,Ca. The housing market here is off the charts. My kids won't be able to buy a house unless they get a degree in a field that makes a high salary. Track houses are upward of a million dollars. Rents are outrageous. While I would like them to experience living on their own,I don't think it will happen anytime soon. They would have to leave the state. We have large house and we are fine with them being here as as they need to figure life out and mature. Our middle son is Autistic and will never leave. I think the pandemic has really made us question Rugged Individualism. Times are very different now than when our parents and their parents were young.It just doesn't work anymore.
We look after our grandson who’s severely disabled, and have moved fromWales to Scotland to join our aging but still actively caring household with our daughter’s young family household. This enabled them to move from an urban tenement ( flat) to a smallholding with 10 acres where we are developing a resilient food structure, a small holiday business, and a safe place for our challenging young man to grow to adulthood, knowing the relatives who will be significant in whatever future life he leads. Gradually we are converting a farm building to a separate house for our branch of the family, but it’s a joy to be a regular part of their lives: eating some meals together, working on our land projects together, sharing child care, craft projects, dreams etc. Now we have a temporary trailer home for us, we can go days without doing much more than shout hi as we hang out washing or move the chicken house! But it’s so good to have that security of family who fed us when our side went down with covid recently, fetch meds etc.
I was planning to go to right into grad school after I finished undergrad, but finishing my college (upper division classes!) on zoom completely burnt me out academically. I moved back in with my parents during my senior year, and have lived at home ever since. Perhaps 5 years ago it would have been seen as a symbol of failure, but right now it just makes sense. Besides, my parents have already been too busy working to keep up with normal house maintenance, so being able to fill in that gap is super important as well.
I honestly wish my parents had the same view on living at home as you do. When I was younger my parents said that I would be a failure and always live at home because of my autism. I now live with my wife, but because I'm a homemaker and don't have a job under capitalism, they still consider me a failure. I'm glad I don't live with my parents anymore because it was toxic, but I wish I could have had the option if I wanted to. People are quick to judge you if you don't follow the "american dream"
Thank you so much for sharing this. I am so sorry that your parents don’t feel they’re able to be supportive 😔. Our society sadly (and selfishly!) doesn’t really support people who choose to live in community and in multigenerational households. I’m so grateful Angela is addressing this subject on her channel. I was shamed repeatedly by “friends” for supporting the needs of my kids. I don’t think the previous generation was prepared to deal with that kind of pressure, but I’m glad to see that the cultural landscape is shifting.
I've never understood the American focus on pushing their kids out the door by 18. It just gives young adults license to make poor choices independently! We know that a young adult's brain does not reach full maturity until age 25. There are definitely benefits to multigenerational living and economic constraints may drive more Americans to consider it. Multigenerational living does not even have to be with blood relatives. it could be among friends. Thank you for your permaculture videos. It's great to see someone teaching about Food Forests, particularly in the Pacific NW. I learn a lot from you.
My autistic kid will probably live with us longer than is considered normal. I am also trying to set up passive income streams and teach my kid finances and investing strategies to help support without needing us. Of course, our kid is welcome to stay with us as long as needed.
My daughter lived with us until she was 23. She mostly moved out to live with her boyfriend. My mother has recently passed on, and after her estate is settled, we plan to upgrade my garage shop building into a 2 bedroom apartment for my daughter. I don't want her to move out of state looking for cheaper housing, when she can pay a below market rent and stay here. I get ill when I hear what she pays for all the cost and hassle that renting is in this city.
I cannot agree that "rugged individualism" is "toxic." While it may not be everyone's cup of tea, it certainly does build character and independence. I could not WAIT to leave home -- did it on my 18th birthday and did not go home again for a year. I needed space to create my own life, make my own way in the world, and figure out who I was independent of my parents. That was extremely good for me, and served me well later in life when I faced some tough times -- by then I knew I could handle pretty much anything life threw at me, because I had gained confidence in my own abilities. So be careful about generalities, and calling things toxic It's your opinion, only. Your kids may or may not thank you for that opinion and its outcome later in life. Just saying.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
I live with my single grown son. I call us "roommates." He has the upstairs and I have the downstairs. He mows once a week but otherwise I do just about all the rest of the gardening. We cook and eat separately, although we share the kitchen. He pays the lion's share of the bills and I do what I can to oversee maintenance of the home, as in suggesting we hire a plumber to do whatever and things like that. It's a wonderful situation! I have longed for a communal living situation my entire life! Thank you for bringing this up.
I don’t feel like we can say we “bucked the norm,” when the norm has been largely inaccessible to our generation. I’ve never lived in a multi-generational household, but I can see how the cost of living has priced out individualism. I moved out after graduating HS and it was difficult to get thru college, navigate the rental market, then the housing market by myself. In my 20s I had already decided that I would never retire because of how difficult it was to save for retirement while paying off student loans and paying rent. Individualism has driven my generation into a cycle of lifelong debt. Even if you don’t have any credit cards, the cost of education and the cost of housing (owning or renting) feeds on people suffering from a lack of support. We need a new system.
We're lucky enough to have 5 acres in the Scottish Highlands. It's tiny by highland farm standards, but is a massive amount of land compared to what we had previously. It's our intention to become a community within a few years, one way or another. It's likely to be a mix of family members and like-minded people, with a broad range of ages and skillsets. An advantage of Scottish land law is that anyone working a piece of land has the right to live on it. That's a game changer for most people, because in the rest of the UK there are strict planning laws that prohibit just buying land and living on it. Those restrictions act as a barrier to most people getting access to land, unless they have major assets. A farmhouse with 82 acres in the northwest of England recently sold for almost £1.5 million. Crofting law in Scotland keeps prices more accessible for most people, and the right to live on the land makes structures like yurts and tiny houses a viable option here.
I'm a firm believer in multigenerational households, but also firmly believe the easiest way to reduce friction is for each family unit to have its own kitchen, and bathroom. Because of the space we have, we can accommodate that easily, and have a cluster of loosely connected households, each with a fair degree of autonomy, but with shared access and responsibility for the food forests, fuel systems, ponds, and spacious outdoor kitchens (as well as a few toys like a wood fired hot tub).
The limiting factor in the yield of any piece of land is often human input, and that's certainly the case here. Even with each family unit having 1/10th of an acre for annual veg gardens, there's a huge amount of communal space. Far more than we need as a family of three (with two adult children), or can maximise in terms of production. We're middle aged. It's just not realistic to expect to be able to keep working the land to the degree we currently are, for many more years. We've designed the systems to be accessible as we age, such as paths wide enough for a wheelchair between the raised beds, and grab handles at entranceways, but we also need to plan for succession. Many permaculture systems seem to plan for succession in terms of shrub layers giving way to canopy tree systems and so on, without addressing the finite span of main biological agent within the system, the human. It's our hope that community will address this, to some degree.
10 acres in Ayrshire here, shared between grandparents, ( us) parents, a disabled nearly adult grandchild and young grandchildren. We are so pleased we created this more resilient unit so that B can get to know the people who will help look after him when we are long gone, but in the meantime it’s a joy to share a vision of regeneration of a habitat, sustainable living goals, permaculture development, the sweetness and fun of normally developing grandchildren, and know we have some financial security in the repayment our children make instead of being burdened with a mortgage… We’ve managed 18 months gradually becoming more independent as the conversion of a second building is starting, but sharing tools, labour, child care, meals and regular celebrations is such a lovely way to live. And yes, it may well extend to others as well, on a permanent or temporary basis. Definite economies of scale, and a glorious view to boot.. I think if you have enough in common, a multigenerational living situation is certainly one to consider ( totally agree about the need for some “own”
Space though!) 🙂
I tried to move out of my parents house right when the pandemic started (like the day of the first lockdown in my state). It was good for me mentally but not financially so when the housing market went crazy at the end of last year and I got a new job I was forced to move back in with them. Which has been a struggle mentally, but great for me financially to be able to save so much money and start paying down debts I accumulated since college.
I think the concept of living communally with people you choose is something that should be normalized. I think it would be easier to choose to live with family if you have good communication and healthy relationships, (like you seem to with your children). But for those of us who don’t have those kinds of relationships, where living with family causes massive amounts of stress. Finding people to live with who can be supportive and grow a household while fostering positive communication and understanding would be ideal.
Can't believe you're appologizing for not posting enough. I'm blown away at how prolific you are with the busy life you leed
I live in Orange County,Ca. The housing market here is off the charts. My kids won't be able to buy a house unless they get a degree in a field that makes a high salary. Track houses are upward of a million dollars. Rents are outrageous. While I would like them to experience living on their own,I don't think it will happen anytime soon. They would have to leave the state. We have large house and we are fine with them being here as as they need to figure life out and mature. Our middle son is Autistic and will never leave. I think the pandemic has really made us question Rugged Individualism. Times are very different now than when our parents and their parents were young.It just doesn't work anymore.
We look after our grandson who’s severely disabled, and have moved fromWales to Scotland to join our aging but still actively caring household with our daughter’s young family household. This enabled them to move from an urban tenement ( flat) to a smallholding with 10 acres where we are developing a resilient food structure, a small holiday business, and a safe place for our challenging young man to grow to adulthood, knowing the relatives who will be significant in whatever future life he leads. Gradually we are converting a farm building to a separate house for our branch of the family, but it’s a joy to be a regular part of their lives: eating some meals together, working on our land projects together, sharing child care, craft projects, dreams etc. Now we have a temporary trailer home for us, we can go days without doing much more than shout hi as we hang out washing or move the chicken house! But it’s so good to have that security of family who fed us when our side went down with covid recently, fetch meds etc.
@@welshhymnspontrhyd That sounds really lovely!
I was planning to go to right into grad school after I finished undergrad, but finishing my college (upper division classes!) on zoom completely burnt me out academically. I moved back in with my parents during my senior year, and have lived at home ever since. Perhaps 5 years ago it would have been seen as a symbol of failure, but right now it just makes sense. Besides, my parents have already been too busy working to keep up with normal house maintenance, so being able to fill in that gap is super important as well.
Just being able to afford a place to live is getting ridiculous, not to mention all the other things one needs to live independently.
I honestly wish my parents had the same view on living at home as you do. When I was younger my parents said that I would be a failure and always live at home because of my autism. I now live with my wife, but because I'm a homemaker and don't have a job under capitalism, they still consider me a failure. I'm glad I don't live with my parents anymore because it was toxic, but I wish I could have had the option if I wanted to. People are quick to judge you if you don't follow the "american dream"
Thank you so much for sharing this. I am so sorry that your parents don’t feel they’re able to be supportive 😔. Our society sadly (and selfishly!) doesn’t really support people who choose to live in community and in multigenerational households. I’m so grateful Angela is addressing this subject on her channel. I was shamed repeatedly by “friends” for supporting the needs of my kids. I don’t think the previous generation was prepared to deal with that kind of pressure, but I’m glad to see that the cultural landscape is shifting.
I've never understood the American focus on pushing their kids out the door by 18. It just gives young adults license to make poor choices independently! We know that a young adult's brain does not reach full maturity until age 25. There are definitely benefits to multigenerational living and economic constraints may drive more Americans to consider it. Multigenerational living does not even have to be with blood relatives. it could be among friends.
Thank you for your permaculture videos. It's great to see someone teaching about Food Forests, particularly in the Pacific NW. I learn a lot from you.
My autistic kid will probably live with us longer than is considered normal. I am also trying to set up passive income streams and teach my kid finances and investing strategies to help support without needing us. Of course, our kid is welcome to stay with us as long as needed.
My daughter lived with us until she was 23. She mostly moved out to live with her boyfriend. My mother has recently passed on, and after her estate is settled, we plan to upgrade my garage shop building into a 2 bedroom apartment for my daughter. I don't want her to move out of state looking for cheaper housing, when she can pay a below market rent and stay here. I get ill when I hear what she pays for all the cost and hassle that renting is in this city.
I cannot agree that "rugged individualism" is "toxic." While it may not be everyone's cup of tea, it certainly does build character and independence. I could not WAIT to leave home -- did it on my 18th birthday and did not go home again for a year. I needed space to create my own life, make my own way in the world, and figure out who I was independent of my parents. That was extremely good for me, and served me well later in life when I faced some tough times -- by then I knew I could handle pretty much anything life threw at me, because I had gained confidence in my own abilities. So be careful about generalities, and calling things toxic It's your opinion, only. Your kids may or may not thank you for that opinion and its outcome later in life. Just saying.
not an option when addiction is in play unfortuantely too toxic
Sometimes even when addiction isn’t a factor living with family can be very toxic. But I guess that can be true no matter who you live with.