This is the first video I've seen of yours, and I loved everything about it. Acknowledging bias and being willing to change your mind when seeing evidence, insightful breakdown of the gameplay and players' mentality. And I like that you pointed out Jake's sportsmanship. Anyone that's ever competed in anything knows it's not always easy to shake the opponent's hand after a frustrating loss, and that's really all you can ask of a competitor. The Smash community needs more people like you making content
@@ArlenGravedGrace Quidd does secondary Steve for fun btw, he uses the character in squad strike and such. He does know the character very well, just not as well as DDee.
Wow this is a really cool analysis because it really is a game of fair and razor but the DDee perspective is really fun and hearing him both on twitter and in person is really funny really awesomr
I think that any character with long reaching options (i.e. aegis, shulk, lucina, min min, etc.) makes steve’s life way harder. It’s just something that needs time to develop
That’s making me think, what about sephiroth? His forward air could be a bit annoying but moves like ftilt, bair, uair, all of his smash attacks, down air (in niche situations, and up tilt (also in niche situations) could all go through blocks and hit Steve.
This ideology fails with dedede because he is so slow that Steve can easily make distance and mine, and if dedede flies off stage then Steve has more than enough time to get diamond.
I’d love to see how Acola manages a situation like this, especially given that he’s far more skilled than Jake is, on top of being particularly patient. DDee is quite a talented player too, so that would hopefully create an example of what to do and what not to do in that MU
PT does seem promising against Steve. The issue is that it is Jake of all people. Jake is not known for his adaptability or mentality, or MU knowledge in general. If someone like Yonnie, alright that is a little bit better, but if it was someone like Acola than alright now we got something. Reason being Acola plays other characters at top level not just Steve or Kazuya and from the offline event in Japan and Grimtational he has shown adaptations. So I will wait a little bit longer before I say PT is a counter pick but I will say definitely promising.
"Jake is not known for his adaptability or mentality, or MU knowledge in general." Then tf is he known for if everybody agrees he's not even that good at complex combos?
@Saxon Eyles That doesn't mean that would happen at all. A person can be good at said match up or not be that good at it. For example, Pikachu is supposed to beat Samus yet Esam loses against her all the time. Steve has many different playstyles too which could be invalidated by different characters.
@@juniperrodley9843 Gluto for now, although he is working on Min Min apparently. And Spargo basically was at the point he stopped playing. Also Acola (and other Japanese players but idk how many people you consider “top players”)
hey man I really loved this video I think there is not enough good content like this that analysis gameplay without going super in depth, great stuff would love to see more :)
Honestly, Ddee seems like such a smart well articulated person which is pretty amazing considering his age. I hope as he gets older he moves to bigger and better things but until then it’s an absolute treat to watch him play.
Great analysis! I hope the PT v Steve matchup gets explored even more by the pros in the future. I think Jake’s ragequit was fine. He wasn’t disrespectful about it, didn’t yell or throw his controller, he gave the fist bump at the end, and you could clearly see from the first two games that he was already super tilted, so losing his first stock so quickly in the third game would have absolutely crushed him. I think it’s fine that he just said “okay, you win, I tap out.” That zero to death was absolutely hilarious though.
PT isn’t the only character with jank disjoints that can oppress Steve but I do agree that Ivysaur just completely bodies Steve and it’s hilarious. I play both Young Link and BOTW Link so I know just how valuable projectiles and range are in walling Steve out.
I wonder if there are other matchups that would work similarly. What I gathered is you want to a) stop Steve from setting up via a projectile and/or a distance move, b) stop Steve from abusing blocks via a strong, but safe moves, and c) keep advantage state by using lots of disjoints It's over-simplifying, but those 3 things make Steve actually have to play ultimate instead of having you play his game. Maybe Falco could have a good matchup on Steve?
This video is music to my eyes!!!!! I love how Steve player who plans on camping, mining, to then wait for other player to commit over their wall gets counter camped and the Steve player rages. GG!!!
I have to respect the boldness to be a minor in the competitive Smash scene. That's like being a little boy and choosing to go to a Catholic Church, takes balls.
"Gets bodied by this character" I mean, his literal jab, up-tilt are pure cheese similar to Mario in Smash 4. Who could forget grab > d-throw > u-tilt > u-tilt > u-tilt without rolling your eyes if youre on the end of that combo
Honestly this didn't even look like a ragequit, there wasn't rage. Just "I concede, I'm getting the fuck out of here, I'm not dealing with this, not like I'm gonna be able to win anyway" which imo is kinda the opposite of a ragequit? Like, he knew continuing would be pointless and just put him in a worse mental state, and just fuckin left, with a fist bump. I think a ragequit has to involve poor emotional regulation, but this was actually a great example of good emotional regulation.
It depends on what you mean by a "ragequit." I would definitely consider it to be a ragequit if I did this myself. He was angry, and he quit. It doesn't mean that it wasn't the right thing to do from his perspective but he was clearly stressed out and that's what made him quit, thus ragequit. I don't think you need to be literally screaming at your opponent for it to count, nor does it have to be unjustified. Anger is anger whether it's restrained or not. Good on him for quitting before he snapped but I'm pretty sure it still counts. And for the record, the opposite of a ragequit is a calm win. He tried to be calm and failed, and he definitely didn't win.
Followed that kid ever since he beat the sh*t out of Samsora and I know, he will be one of the Best at some point. He got the gamesense and mentality to improve constistently. Makes me so proud as a believer, keep it up DDee!
Dude saying that Tweek would have received less fire if he were the one ragequitting is forgetting that top player receive by far the biggest amount of hate
It really do be that simple, tho. And it’s not just PT that can do this sorta thing. Anyone with decent range and a knowledge of how Steve’s moves work is more than capable of beating them. Steve really is just a mentality test, more than anything. It’s your patience versus his resources
That’s certainly true, but it seems that rush down close range characters are not the play vs Steve. If the game didn’t have a 6 frame buffer window maybe that would be different, but it’s so frustrating to run into Steve when he’s constantly covering 2 approach options with traps and pure range. If you make one mistake that’s 60%-70% and god forbid you play fox like me, that’s kill percent. Guess it’s just lame to me that the it seems a secondary is the best answer.
how do ppl feel about the Steve/Yoshi MU? it probably isn’t as good as PT or maybe not good at all, but seems like you can just kinda run around and spam eggs and armored jump through stuff lol
I think y'all are just making bold statements against steve and in favor of PT (I am completely aware that's the point of the tweet and this video) but these past days me and somebody else have been doing some testing on those said "steve counters". (Yea ik, my credentials aren't that good coming from a random YT comment but hear me out) I'll keep them brief. **TL;DR:** Min min can have a favorable MU against steve if the Minmin keeps the right distance to them. The things that Ivy can do vs steve aren't exclusive to them. It's more about being efficient while destroying blocks by either using disjoints or multihit moves. **Minmin** After some testing we agreed that Minmin's ramram it's pretty darn good vs Steve because it pretty much denies Steve's minecart. The range of her arms makes it pretty safe for her to poke at Steve and to break those blocks. The upsmash reflector works wonders for both the anvil and the minecart itself too. On the other hand Min min might have a harder time if steve hides behind the blocks and used the crafting table. The CT takes some hits to be destroyed, it's pretty much free to build and it cancels min min's attacks. Also, as soon as steve gets in there's isn't much min min can do so it's a pretty strong game of positioning and camping. If you give too much space steve will mine and win but if you are in just the right range steve can't quite get in. I'd say it's a pretty good MU for minmin but I wouldn't say it's a strong counter. **Ivysaur** First I want to point out that this particular steve player got frustrated and started to play pretty desperately so I wouldn't say it's the best example. That being said tho. The razor leaf argument it's pretty good but most projectiles can do that so that's not an Ivysaur exclusive thing. The forward air is a good movement but so it's any other movement that either is multihit, that persists after hitting a block or that it creates a round hibox (palutena's nair for example). You have to destroy Steve's house before you can get it. That's just a fact. One good point here is the use of hits that go through the blocks and yes, Ivysaur and Charizard are good at that. Finally the vine works great but we should remember that it only hits diagonally. The upair and dair are... well... we all know how that is. It doesn't particularly work better against Steve imo. Those are just great moves. And finally, the obvious. Not everybody has the same mindset or gameplay. You should remember that Steve has way more options to wall himself in, blocks are the best but not the only one and you should adapt to what your opponent is doing. Fighting steve it's about patience and slowly chipping down his walls and getting hits. Thank you.
3:50 “But what if I told you in this game 3 that DDee didn’t use one razor leaf” DDee immediately jumps off the platform and razor leafs
Sorry I'm dumb sometimes. Thx for watching :)
@@bigredssb6360 no problem lmao
To be fair not one razor leaf hit
I'm gonna lie and say that's what I meant.
@@bigredssb6360 "Would you believe me?" No, because it's not true. Lol
DDee literally 5 years old and winning tournaments, inspiring
💀💀💀💀
*15
@@The_Gabe 15 what?
@@roosterboots4684 years old so I guess the great purging happening almost a year ago works out for the vetter
He def aint 5
I dont think Ddee was downplaying Steve in his tweets, he literally called him the best character in the game lmao
I totally agree, but it's more a matter of how much better. A character can be the best whether or not they have counterplay.
@@bigredssb6360 true true
He also says he doesn't think Steve is a good as everyone says lmao.
I think Steve is slightly overrated and only top 4-6 instead of top 1 🫡
@@ddee_ssbu Eh, anything top 5 is interchangeable to me.
Steve can be beaten it’s just not by the character that you want to main
Honestly? Yeah.
Good thing I already main PT lol
Bro dk can win 😂 I’m joking
this
If I found a Steve in bracket I’d just go Simon and not lose neutral ever lol
This is the first video I've seen of yours, and I loved everything about it. Acknowledging bias and being willing to change your mind when seeing evidence, insightful breakdown of the gameplay and players' mentality.
And I like that you pointed out Jake's sportsmanship. Anyone that's ever competed in anything knows it's not always easy to shake the opponent's hand after a frustrating loss, and that's really all you can ask of a competitor.
The Smash community needs more people like you making content
This is a beautiful compliment, thank you
If only everyone on Twitter could back up their words the way DDee does
The way ddee can just run up and uair shows how important conditioning can be
Dude we gotta see quidd against these steve’s. That would be so amazing
Im 200% sure ddee is way better at pt vs steve than Quidd
@@user-ds3bh4jt6r maybe, quidds favourite is ivysaur tho
@@ArlenGravedGrace yes but you don't need to main a character to know the matchup. To me, the Steve ivy mu looks pretty simple
@@ArlenGravedGrace Quidd does secondary Steve for fun btw, he uses the character in squad strike and such. He does know the character very well, just not as well as DDee.
@@user-ds3bh4jt6r nah
Wow this is a really cool analysis because it really is a game of fair and razor but the DDee perspective is really fun and hearing him both on twitter and in person is really funny really awesomr
put together well, this is good content dude
Oh shit thanks Phy!
It's the goat 🤯
2:39 The Future of SSBU seems so exciting, cant wait!
I think that any character with long reaching options (i.e. aegis, shulk, lucina, min min, etc.) makes steve’s life way harder. It’s just something that needs time to develop
The player complaining have clearly been carried by their high tier mains. I’m in the same camp as Coney. Steve is just funny to me.
That’s making me think, what about sephiroth? His forward air could be a bit annoying but moves like ftilt, bair, uair, all of his smash attacks, down air (in niche situations, and up tilt (also in niche situations) could all go through blocks and hit Steve.
@@markercrayon457 After playing Steve for a little, he definitely is
This ideology fails with dedede because he is so slow that Steve can easily make distance and mine, and if dedede flies off stage then Steve has more than enough time to get diamond.
@@quadzers5703 yeah but like, it's dedede. his only good move is stopped by blocks.
When a Steve main counter another Steve main you know something is up (Jake lol) anyways good video I missed DDee Pokemon trainer good old days!
Dude you are criminally under rated
Thanks for your commentary at the end -- very much appreciated. Absolutely starved for maturity.
I’d love to see how Acola manages a situation like this, especially given that he’s far more skilled than Jake is, on top of being particularly patient. DDee is quite a talented player too, so that would hopefully create an example of what to do and what not to do in that MU
Acola would win, bc he actually would adapt, unlike Jake, who literally kept doing the same thing over and over again.
@@xanander4693 “maybe my nair will work this time…”
@@xanander4693acola would probably try to counter ivysaur zoning or try to get close to the player to prevent the spam
PT does seem promising against Steve. The issue is that it is Jake of all people. Jake is not known for his adaptability or mentality, or MU knowledge in general. If someone like Yonnie, alright that is a little bit better, but if it was someone like Acola than alright now we got something.
Reason being Acola plays other characters at top level not just Steve or Kazuya and from the offline event in Japan and Grimtational he has shown adaptations. So I will wait a little bit longer before I say PT is a counter pick but I will say definitely promising.
I like this take
"Jake is not known for his adaptability or mentality, or MU knowledge in general."
Then tf is he known for if everybody agrees he's not even that good at complex combos?
Saying that Acola is the only true testament to if Pokémon Trainer beats Steve is a stretch. One player does not represent an entire player base.
Actually DDee plays yonna all the time so his belief in steve pt is prob from playing him tons
@Saxon Eyles That doesn't mean that would happen at all. A person can be good at said match up or not be that good at it. For example, Pikachu is supposed to beat Samus yet Esam loses against her all the time. Steve has many different playstyles too which could be invalidated by different characters.
Ultimate is gonna end up being a game of character counter picks
This is so true. We've been seeing it a lot lately!
Yup, so many players already opting for characters like cloud and roy
It kinda already is. The only really top player I can think of who solo mains is Light.
@@juniperrodley9843 Gluto for now, although he is working on Min Min apparently. And Spargo basically was at the point he stopped playing. Also Acola (and other Japanese players but idk how many people you consider “top players”)
@@juniperrodley9843 also soni
I've matched with DDee so many times on QP and his Pokémon trainer is insane. Such a good smash player and such a cool kid!
Finally someone who understands their matchup and doesn't whine because they can't spam and win automatically
DDees laugh is pure fucking infectious energy
DDee is also my favorite Steve, his Steve gameplay is somehow more hilarious than the others and I’m all here for it
Cool vid bro! Dig the content!
Really good commentary, I don’t follow competitive smash but this video was easy to understand
this is the most beautiful thing, I have ever seen.
hey man I really loved this video I think there is not enough good content like this that analysis gameplay without going super in depth, great stuff would love to see more :)
Seeing a Steve player so dejected is such sweet schadenfreude
Ddee is also a Steve player soooo
@@xanander4693 And? What does that have to do with a steve player getting bodied?
@@xanander4693 lmao the year is 20XX. Every top 8 are filled with only Steve , but they settle it with Ivysaur fairs and razor leafs on FD
Steve players are either 5-year olds, or man babies that act like 5-year olds when they get bodied.
Honestly, Ddee seems like such a smart well articulated person which is pretty amazing considering his age. I hope as he gets older he moves to bigger and better things but until then it’s an absolute treat to watch him play.
Big Red: "turning this up bc he has the best laugh I've ever heard"
wow that was not an overstatement.
Great analysis! I hope the PT v Steve matchup gets explored even more by the pros in the future.
I think Jake’s ragequit was fine. He wasn’t disrespectful about it, didn’t yell or throw his controller, he gave the fist bump at the end, and you could clearly see from the first two games that he was already super tilted, so losing his first stock so quickly in the third game would have absolutely crushed him. I think it’s fine that he just said “okay, you win, I tap out.” That zero to death was absolutely hilarious though.
underrated channel, love your commentary bro
Great video as always
Great content man. Love your videos
DDee and Jake are both great sports. Glad to see DDee make sure to defend Jake online too.
"You just side-b. What they do?" Unironically this lowkey changed my mind on steve.
Meaning projectile campers might have something, but you need a tool to clear blocks effectively.
Like at first he seems super oppressive and bannable... and then you realize he has -4s.
Really liked how you started the video not with your voice but a clip. Overall really liked the topic too. Keep it up!
Two other characters that kinda bone steve is cloud and hero but people just refuse to acknowledge it.
Hero has a ton of spells that can go through blocks and is dangerous to camp out, people really sleeping on him
Nice vid once again
Jacks acting like a big baby every time he loses a stock, on any set.
lol, it's hilarious
yeah I actually like most steve players cause they all seem like cool people. Jake is not apart of the cool people group lmao
@@kayden2119 .. what??
I play as Steve...and got stomped by Ivysaur
This is indeed the greatest Steve counter
Good video. Well-made.
Ddee is a homie tbf, met him a while back when PreeM was still doing stuff and he was awesome to be around. Miss our squad
The part where you sped the footage up, Ddee's spacing is near perfect. Doesn't let the Steve get any closer than he wants him to.
The rage quit cracked me up
That one person: “He just projectile spammed as ivysaur”
Good message at the end
Basically long disjoints is the solution
quality video, ddee is insane
been waiting for the new upload
PT isn’t the only character with jank disjoints that can oppress Steve but I do agree that Ivysaur just completely bodies Steve and it’s hilarious. I play both Young Link and BOTW Link so I know just how valuable projectiles and range are in walling Steve out.
Jose was already stressing out from the beginning
We in the biz have a word to sum up this video- Spamming
watching a steve player lose their sanity when losing is golden
I never felt so happy before seen this video
I knew as soon as I saw the rage quit clip you were going to analyse it lmao
I wonder if there are other matchups that would work similarly.
What I gathered is you want to a) stop Steve from setting up via a projectile and/or a distance move, b) stop Steve from abusing blocks via a strong, but safe moves, and c) keep advantage state by using lots of disjoints
It's over-simplifying, but those 3 things make Steve actually have to play ultimate instead of having you play his game.
Maybe Falco could have a good matchup on Steve?
What makes you aay falco
Love the vids as always! It might be a big ask, but making in video captions for when the players are talking, would be a huge help. Big ups Red!
Thanks! Using some very simple editing software rn, but those kinds of things will come if this stuff really takes off :)
Just a kid too hello he’s a legend
Ddee is the gem of the Gen Z generation. Will adopt him as my son one day
What?
@@Stopflying you heard me. He is my precious son
You absolutely love to see it.
3:51 this statement was literally and immediately invalidated the moment the announcer said GO!
"you just side b, what they do?"
This video is music to my eyes!!!!! I love how Steve player who plans on camping, mining, to then wait for other player to commit over their wall gets counter camped and the Steve player rages. GG!!!
DDee is one of my favorite smash players ngl.
Jake doing faces for a side b, it's kinda poetic justice.
jake looks like he going thru it 🤣🤣
Twerk solelmy looking at this in his recommendations knowing he's going to have to pick up PT again if all else goes wrong vs Steve LMAOOO
I have to respect the boldness to be a minor in the competitive Smash scene. That's like being a little boy and choosing to go to a Catholic Church, takes balls.
this is helpful to remember
great vid bro 💪
DDee's still a PT main in my mind
I understand quitting in that situation
Ddee not using a single razor leaf in the third game was such a powermove.
Banger
"Gets bodied by this character"
I mean, his literal jab, up-tilt are pure cheese similar to Mario in Smash 4. Who could forget grab > d-throw > u-tilt > u-tilt > u-tilt
without rolling your eyes if youre on the end of that combo
I'm glad PT is getting recognition now that Quidd started to win a whole tournament using it.
Quidd did do that, but let's not pretend DDee wasn't already putting in work with PT
@@Aristotle000001 yea ddee is also amazing
I always love how Jake has the audacity to look salty every time he somehow loses.
Ddee is gonna be the next Kola man!
Honestly this didn't even look like a ragequit, there wasn't rage. Just "I concede, I'm getting the fuck out of here, I'm not dealing with this, not like I'm gonna be able to win anyway" which imo is kinda the opposite of a ragequit? Like, he knew continuing would be pointless and just put him in a worse mental state, and just fuckin left, with a fist bump. I think a ragequit has to involve poor emotional regulation, but this was actually a great example of good emotional regulation.
It depends on what you mean by a "ragequit." I would definitely consider it to be a ragequit if I did this myself. He was angry, and he quit. It doesn't mean that it wasn't the right thing to do from his perspective but he was clearly stressed out and that's what made him quit, thus ragequit. I don't think you need to be literally screaming at your opponent for it to count, nor does it have to be unjustified. Anger is anger whether it's restrained or not. Good on him for quitting before he snapped but I'm pretty sure it still counts.
And for the record, the opposite of a ragequit is a calm win. He tried to be calm and failed, and he definitely didn't win.
@@jacobesterson the last sentence LMAO
Followed that kid ever since he beat the sh*t out of Samsora and I know, he will be one of the Best at some point.
He got the gamesense and mentality to improve constistently. Makes me so proud as a believer, keep it up DDee!
Ya'll forgot that Ivysaur's Grass type attacks are SUPER EFFECTIVE against Ground-Type blocks
3:47 jake looks like he’s done with life altogether hahaha
DDee is so sick.
early on when steve first came out I knew he couldn't be that good cause he didn't feel bad fighting as villager.
Dude saying that Tweek would have received less fire if he were the one ragequitting is forgetting that top player receive by far the biggest amount of hate
i would love to see you break down the hungrybox vs peanut latest matchup how absolutely cracked peanut went
It really do be that simple, tho. And it’s not just PT that can do this sorta thing. Anyone with decent range and a knowledge of how Steve’s moves work is more than capable of beating them. Steve really is just a mentality test, more than anything. It’s your patience versus his resources
That’s certainly true, but it seems that rush down close range characters are not the play vs Steve. If the game didn’t have a 6 frame buffer window maybe that would be different, but it’s so frustrating to run into Steve when he’s constantly covering 2 approach options with traps and pure range.
If you make one mistake that’s 60%-70% and god forbid you play fox like me, that’s kill percent. Guess it’s just lame to me that the it seems a secondary is the best answer.
Mii Swordfighter in the same boat
Something happens*
Jake: 😫😡😖😑😤
how do ppl feel about the Steve/Yoshi MU? it probably isn’t as good as PT or maybe not good at all, but seems like you can just kinda run around and spam eggs and armored jump through stuff lol
Man Steve has a lot of bad matchups😂
Lets go ivysaur
Lets go ddee
The most sane Steve main
seeing a steve player rage KEWK
3:51 "DDee didnt use one razon leaf"
*match starts and he inmediately uses razor leaf
I'm foolish sometimes.
Ddee is a GOD
Tweek just picked up a 7ndary.
Grass beats ground, after all.
DD is a MONSTER
I think y'all are just making bold statements against steve and in favor of PT (I am completely aware that's the point of the tweet and this video) but these past days me and somebody else have been doing some testing on those said "steve counters". (Yea ik, my credentials aren't that good coming from a random YT comment but hear me out)
I'll keep them brief.
**TL;DR:** Min min can have a favorable MU against steve if the Minmin keeps the right distance to them.
The things that Ivy can do vs steve aren't exclusive to them. It's more about being efficient while destroying blocks by either using disjoints or multihit moves.
**Minmin**
After some testing we agreed that Minmin's ramram it's pretty darn good vs Steve because it pretty much denies Steve's minecart. The range of her arms makes it pretty safe for her to poke at Steve and to break those blocks. The upsmash reflector works wonders for both the anvil and the minecart itself too.
On the other hand Min min might have a harder time if steve hides behind the blocks and used the crafting table. The CT takes some hits to be destroyed, it's pretty much free to build and it cancels min min's attacks.
Also, as soon as steve gets in there's isn't much min min can do so it's a pretty strong game of positioning and camping. If you give too much space steve will mine and win but if you are in just the right range steve can't quite get in.
I'd say it's a pretty good MU for minmin but I wouldn't say it's a strong counter.
**Ivysaur**
First I want to point out that this particular steve player got frustrated and started to play pretty desperately so I wouldn't say it's the best example. That being said tho.
The razor leaf argument it's pretty good but most projectiles can do that so that's not an Ivysaur exclusive thing.
The forward air is a good movement but so it's any other movement that either is multihit, that persists after hitting a block or that it creates a round hibox (palutena's nair for example). You have to destroy Steve's house before you can get it. That's just a fact.
One good point here is the use of hits that go through the blocks and yes, Ivysaur and Charizard are good at that.
Finally the vine works great but we should remember that it only hits diagonally.
The upair and dair are... well... we all know how that is. It doesn't particularly work better against Steve imo. Those are just great moves.
And finally, the obvious. Not everybody has the same mindset or gameplay. You should remember that Steve has way more options to wall himself in, blocks are the best but not the only one and you should adapt to what your opponent is doing.
Fighting steve it's about patience and slowly chipping down his walls and getting hits.
Thank you.
More vids like this please!!
I want to see Tweek pick PT back up and stomp the shit out of some Steves.