Thanks for this inspiring video, man! I was having a different problem, but the first tip sent me in the right direction. I was printing a large part in TPU and it kept failing at the first infill layer with filament wrapping around the extruder geared wheel. I tried limiting the amount of retraction as I did already figure the problem was caused by that, with the extruder having a hard time pushing the flexible filament back into the tube, but that wasn't enough. The continuous infill tip seems to be the right one for my case. I'm now halfway through the part with no failures. Thanks to you, I've learned something new and useful today! Thumbs up!
This was the answer I have been searching for. I have spent the past 2 weeks on 3d printer forums asking why my print kept failing. People kept telling me it was wet filament but I knew it wasn't because it happened to 3 different spools and it was only on this one model. It has 4 thin walls and it kept snapping the filament when the infill started printing. I went through all the steps of checking the spools, the bowden tube, couplings, extruder, e-steps, temps, PID... Nothing helped. Then I found this little video, changed the settings in Cura and now printing the 18 hour piece without any issues. Thanks man!
This is a great tip, and though I've already been using these settings it did make me think about the spring tension on the extruder and how it could impact print quality. The BMG extruder allows you to adjust the spring tension.
A viewer mentioned that the stock spring is too stiff, an upgraded bed spring seems to work better, I'll try it when I have a chance. These extruders have an adjustment, but I can't imagine wanting to add any more pressure, so maybe a different sprint will help.
Thank you..That's exactly what I was looking for. I recently was printing a small sized model and started hearing extruder knocking. The printing was finished leaving the model with under extrusion problem.
Good stuff. It's probably already been said but if you have any intention of running your switchwire enclosed I'd definitely suggest printing the parts from ABS or ASA. Voron parts are designed with ABS shrinkage in mind.
I have no idea why Cura still doesnt Set the Beginner friendly settings like combing as default. This is a huge shortcomming as it makes getting into 3D-Pinting harder than it needs to be. Just take prusa slicer everyone! So much more powerful and streamlined. You even have well working profiles for Creality printers and others. You will not want to come back to this mess that Cura has become. The error in your case is caused by a soft material and extruder grip tension that is way to high. You did the right thing with this Dual Dive extruder.
My friend. Nice video. I had the very same issue with my ender 3 v2. It was happening only with softer filaments. What I did and solved 100% was to remove the preload nut that is connected to the extruder spring. This fix alone solved all my issues and I could print with the same G code that I was having failures beforehand. Cheers
Perfect, thank you for this. I've enabled this before not fully understanding these features, and the reason for failures on occasion which presented themselves regardless of the filament and any other physical changes I had made, I figured that it would help some others with the same issues. Thank you again for taking the time to leave a comment!
Thanks for your tutorial and covering this issue. I was having this problem also with the extruder flattening the filament and binding in the bowden tube halfway through the print. There's virtually noting on RUclips about this. This only started happening when I replaced the original Creality tube with a better Capricorn one. In Combing Mode I had "Not in Skin" checked so I checked "All" and that's fix the problem. This seems more of a patch solution so I think a duel drive extruder will be the best option.......
Good video and investigation, but you missed two key settings that will work to help this issue "Maximum Retraction Count" and "Minimum Extrusion Distance Window" default they are set way to high 100/1 which means it can retract 100 times over 1mm of moved filament. If you adjust the Windows to the length of your retractions and then adjust the count to something more like 10 or 20 it will limit excessive retractions over a small length of filament. It takes some trial and error to find the sweet spot, and something with way too many retractions could end too oozing but it is worth looking at. I just prefer the dual drive extruder option :) There is an article with info on it at All3DP
@@NeedItMakeItI have tried two BMG Clones (triangle labs and mellow) and both have served me well, the former is probably slightly better made. They were fitted to an Ender 3 Pro with quite a few Mods and then 2 of them on a SV02 dual extruder printer, both ended up as direct drive (well close to direct) I'm about 2 weeks into tinkering with a BIQU BX printer that has a 7:1 H2 extruder, it's a beast but I'm yet to fully push it. I spotted the newer BMG in your video, keen to see your thoughts.
The Cap tubes have a slightly tighter ID, which might be part of the cause. CHEP recently had a video on lubing the tube a bit, I'm curious to see how it might affect the results on my prints as well. Glad it could help a bit.
A but late, but... I think the are multiple reasons for skips / deforming of filament: * too high a pressure on the filament in extruder * too many short & frequent retractions (as you noted) * too tight fit of filament in ptfe tube (filament tolerances) * heat creep from the stepper motor to the driving gear touching the filament Especially on long prints, the last one will start to play a big role. Solution of that one is a bmg style of extruder, where the filament driving gears are not directly connected to stepper, so the heat can not be transferred. edit: this is what is being addressed by the M4 as well as you've observed in your other video
I have this problem but on small prints with a lot of perimeters, and it stops extruding and literally makes a "bite" in the filament, is there any way to fix it, as i understand this fix wouldn't apply to perimeters, thanks in advance
@@TuncayAyhan Oh I do, but I don't like to, I find that I am much more calm without Caffeine, all of the benefits of better sleep and no crash. Maybe I should make ASMR videos?
That extruder spring is waaaaaay to tight on that ectruders i just find out that the stock bed springs have the best tension (when upgrading bed spring to silicon spring. The stock bed spring get available). Also it does not have to tight at all when printing petg temps are always above 230C
Some good tips to keep in mind, this stock spring with the metal extruder does apply quite a bit of pressure even with the screw fully released. As far as temp, each filament is different, this one extrudes well as low as 200C, which is a bit unusual, however it is the cheapest PETG on the market.
Yeah for real. I’ve never had this problem. And my extruder spring is pretty darn stiff. So that one must be super duper super stiff to cause that. At most, mine will leave teeth marks. But even after several retractions, it doesn’t deform the shape. Seems like chasing ghosts, in my opinion. Could be wrong. But that’s unlikely.
@@rayaguilar9085 my Ender 3 max does this a ton. Just chews up filament makes printing with silk near impossible. I have to try 5-6 times with retraction settings to get silk to print and it changes with every print. Half a spool is used troubleshooting.
For sure, also try setting the maximum retraction amount from 100 down to something like 10, others have mentioned that this also works, I haven't tried it myself, but it sounds like it will limit those retractions which cause the jamb.
@@LeoGarcia3HC When I have some time I'll make a follow up video on extruder performance, single gear/dual gear/larger & smaller gears to see how it can impact this as well. Glad you're having success!
Just letting you know that the Voron parts ARE NOT supposed to be printed in PETG. PETG will flow at temperatures at which enclosures heat up to. It is a very big nono if you want your voron to print for more than 2 weeks :( ABS is the ONLY material you should print your voron parts in
I will agree that some parts are best printed in ABS, anything in contact or near a heat source, everything else is fair game. They do suggest ABS in the instructions, Voron printers can be setup in an enclosure to print higher temp materials and will lead to softening. I'm willing to try it in all PETG and see what happens, if it doesn't work, any parts which fail can be made in ABS. Does every parts need to be? I highly doubt it.
Hey @NeedItMakeIt maybe you should also try double the thickness of your infill, so you allowed to have less percentage and bigger shape's. Should be strong and also reduce some issues together with your mentioned tips.
Nice, for sure, I did also just experiment with a 0.5mm infill extrusion for a stiffer final product, and the print went well. Not sure about stiffness improvement yet. I'll have to find a good way to test it.
@@NeedItMakeIt Not shure if you get me right. I ment to double i.e. Infill line width. A additional wall is always better than more infill from my point of view. Everything always depends on the model and where the stress is coming from afterwards.
@@lazyman1011 A valid point. The further from the neutral axis the better, the issue I always run into is how to support the top without infill. Tree style infill? Most of my prints are structural and do require a heavy infill so they can support the loading applied, but this is probably unusual for a 3D print to only bear load in compression. Some food for thought for sure, thanks!
@@NeedItMakeIt Infill is not so easy to steer. You only allowed to adjust it not design it. So what you may try would be Cubic (subdivision) together with Gradual infill steps. Maybe you have enough top support then, the infill step high is adjustable. That would be my solution of your explanation if I understand you correctly. If you have well adjusted bridging capabilities with your printer you could also increase the top thickness and need less infill then if you don't need strong sqish direction parts and more nice looking ones.
great advice! good luck completing the voron parts, finished a 2.4 about 3 months ago and love it! are you just building an afterburner for your Ender or a full printer?
Thank you! I am prepping to build a SW, maybe two if I like it. I think a 2.4 would be better performance, but I wanted to start with something a little more familiar. I'll have a video out soon on the M4, so far so good!
Is there any way i could buy you a coffee/support the channel directly? After implementing your solution my print that failed 9 times in a row finally printed! Some of your other videos helped me get the e3v2 set up perfectly too so i'd be happy to donate for all your help :)
Cura also has a maximum retraction setting which limits the amount of retractions that can happen over a certain length of filament. It seems like Cura has more settings that you could ever use. It's overwhelming sometimes even for experienced printers.
In Cura there is a setting specifically to prevent this from happening, it's called "Maximum Retraction Count" . This setting adjusts the number of maximum retractions on a specific area of filament to prevent damage, by default it's set to 100 which allows what you see to happen. Change it to 10.
U should print yourself a direct drive mount. Their are files for it on things. Their are models that won't lower you print hight capacity. I think it would also help with the print quality.
That could be, extruding moist filament may require a higher nozzle temp. Recently I've been testing and reviewing a filament dryer, and it does a great job especially thanks to the humidity we've had lately in Ontario Canada. I was using the oven trick like you, my oven was a little hot even at the lowest temp and liked to bond the filament... not a fun surprise. I've found that PETG does absorb a lot quicker than ABS or PLA.
I think I may do that, but I am building a Switchwire as well. I want to learn more about the entire process, including electronics/firmware etc. I'll make it into a series once I get all of the parts together.
hmm will have to check this after work. I just got the anycubic vyper yesterday and did the owl test print which didn't have any issues. After that I did a 7hr print of a lager model and it had clear signs of under extrusion in random areas at different height levels. Could also be the 1 year old filament too 😂
I'm open to the possibility, however I also know that PETG will work on many of the locations on the printer, there are select few areas which might require something with higher temp resistance. Would you mind to share exactly why and where you think there would be a problem?
@@NeedItMakeIt Its not recommended by the designers, the parts are designed with the ABS shrinkage in mind(so a material with a different shrink factor will end up with parts with an incorrect size), and all the vorons printers are basically enclosed causing alot of problems with sagging printed parts. Even CNC kitchen, who used PA CF for his parts had this problem and his v0 was not enclosed...
@@NeedItMakeIt And PETG suffer from creep much more than ABS, if you print a Voron in PETG regardless of heat, any of the PETG under any tension will deform over time. You will be constantly troubleshooting and tightening up screws. Fair few horror stories on the Discord from people who went PETG. Expect you could get away with PETG for much of the Afterburner, but even ABS part coolers have a tendency of deforming over time. There is a ression it is only used for plastic bottles and 3D printing, it's a terrible plastic! :)
Thank you so muchj for this video. Not a lot of resources about this issue. I tried your suggested setting in cura but I'm still getting the same issue. I ordered the dual gear extruder and will arrive tomorrow and I hope this will resolve the issue. Do you think getting a direct drive extruder will also solve this issue?
The gears on the extruder, did you have to do any kind of adjustment for feed speeds? I did have the skipping problem, I didn't attribute it to the filament crush though, I eventually found that the bowden tube was not seated correctly at the heater and was causing jams. I was literally getting blow outs, with the tube being pushed out of the extruder mount point. I bought new holders and was still getting the same deal. I then realized you have to push the tube ALL the way in to the heater, not just to the tip of the holder. So that means that I may have been getting crushing earlier on, but it eventually pushed the tube out and was causing other problems. Noob move, but, fixed. (And I have a nice red tube on it now. ;) )
I have it on for all prints, when I was creating new profiles I forgot to re-enable it and I started to run into these problems. It is not so great when you think you have something active and you really don't, it takes a while to troubleshoot it. 🤦♂️
@@NeedItMakeIt great! I am looking forward to it! I really appreciate the videos you make and I like that they are short but very well explained and demonstrated! Have a nice week! Greetings from Germany.
Hmm I watched a video about combing before I bought my printer, so I use combing turned on all the time. I was wanting to ask. What is a good tip for nozzle temps? If the filament says 190-230c, should you use the middle of those temps?
Have you tried a Bi-metal heatbreak? It greatly improved extrusion flow rate, check out the CNC kitchen video. For me my prints alot. Triangle lab one apparently works good at 20 dollars
Brooo I've been diagnosing this issue for few days now it never used to happen but after heavily upgrading my setup this started on big prints. I think the main cause is a combination of too stiff spring and the upgraded extruder being aluminium therefore absorbing heat from the stepper below it and running in an enclosure, perhaps the tighter Capricorn tolerance doesn't help either! I knew it was retraction causing it to flatten and after printing the same model without retraction it worked. I even managed to print another large one with minimal stringing with 2mm retraction. I'll give this a go I tried to print recently with 0 infill and it still happened... Do you think a direct drive with it's 1mm retraction could prevent this too? EDIT I read an amazon review saying the original tension spring for the plastic extruder is shorter and softer, so I took a look and it is! I'm going to revert the spring only and see how things go
Uncanny timing with this video! I had this issue just yesterday, however I don't know if these setting tweaks would help me because my model has numerous bumps (simulating an appearance of gravel on terrain) all over the surface. Or at the very least, I'll have stringing all over the surface. Any thoughts or ideas?
@@snw0x0 Thanks for your insight. I still get problems when printing these types of surfaces. I've determined that the numerous retractions by the extruder flattened my filament, which got jammed in the bowden tube. I've tried loosening up the grip on the extruder, which sort of helped, but not always.
Mine was set to the loose-est... setting, others have said to replace the spring with a bed spring and that works better. Personally I'd prefer a little more pressure, too loose and not enough pressure in itself will lead to slipping and that can ruin a print. Dual gear is the best solution I believe and I am in the process of testing some of these.
After the support has been laid out, it prints for 30 minutes before the nozzle catches in the printed matter and slides my whole projects around the plate. Any ideas on what I can do?
That's a build plate adhesion problem. Use a wider base (maybe a raft or a brim). Make sure your first layer is printed low enough. Make sure your first layer has a layer height of 0.2mm+. If all of that doesn't help, you can use 3D-printing-glue on your print bed.
I'm sure there is, I have the slicer, but I have limited time and haven't had the chance to learn it yet. It is touted as a great slicer, I'm sure there is something similar. If not, there might be a setting to reduce the max amount of retractions, others have suggested that solution as well.
this is only good because we are all impatient and jam as many things as possible in one print session. i'm defiantly learning you shouldn't just add shit just because you see a video... he doesn't say this but that's why you would add it. if you add this for a single structure it might fuck it up
Dude I haven't even watched this video... But as far as getting things tram goes... I found a company called gulf coast robotics that makes a perfectly flat bed replacement and it's awesome.
Before you take the plunge with this dual gear, it isn't that easy to setup on these printers unless you're well versed in modifying firmware, or you are okay with minor changes to current coming to the motors and reversing the motor rotation. www.bondtech.se/resellers/ I purchased mine at 3D Lab Tech in Canada. www.3dlabtech.ca/product/bondtech-lgx-large-gears-extruder/ I am still working out some kinks, the extrusion or perhaps retraction settings need to be adjusted to set the e-steps I had to run in a gcode file on the printer as I didn't want to modify the firmware: M92 E415 - means adjust e-steps to, and a value of 415 M500 - means store that setting I hope that helps.
cool video, keep up the good work bro, i can also help if anybody needs it. i know so many people struggle with 3d printing its not an easy game but practice make perfect (just keep on printing) 😁
Would you mind to explain why people are so set on using ABS? I figure we have maybe three parts on the build which would require ABS. Maybe I should ask the Voron crew directly. What I find is that people make comments like this without having tested anything themselves, I'm curious to know what the exact problem is with using PETG so I can be confident that avoiding it is necessary.
@@NeedItMakeIt come join the discord! People are more than happy to answer any and all questions there. There have been people who built vorons with various different materials and had catastrophic failures because of it, whether that may be due to creep, lack of temperature resistance, or poor dimensional accuracy. I can't provide any more concrete data other than that I've made certain parts with petg and had them fail very early, but there are others in the discord who could give you much better statistics and material properties
Thank you, I've heard this from a few others as well. One thing I really appreciate is when people explain why they make a suggestion such as yours. I print in PETG mainly because I can record video without the enclosure ABS is not so easy to do.
@@NeedItMakeIt yeah, the video is great. PETG fails gradually under heat creep. So if you build spec, you will be enclosed and thus suffer the same faith as CnC kitchen on his v0 build with his old filament
Just to make it clear: PETG starts failing way before it’s glass transition on melting point and this will affect you ability to keep everything in place in a motion system like the voron
@@glimps84 Thank you, very good info. Some parts could be made from PETG, for example the skirt around the printer, any parts with force being applied or will be inside the enclosure will require ABS, or purchase a kit of machined alum. parts.
Thanks for this inspiring video, man!
I was having a different problem, but the first tip sent me in the right direction.
I was printing a large part in TPU and it kept failing at the first infill layer with filament wrapping around the extruder geared wheel.
I tried limiting the amount of retraction as I did already figure the problem was caused by that, with the extruder having a hard time pushing the flexible filament back into the tube, but that wasn't enough.
The continuous infill tip seems to be the right one for my case. I'm now halfway through the part with no failures.
Thanks to you, I've learned something new and useful today!
Thumbs up!
That's great! I've not tried TPU yet, I'll have to experience it, I was waiting until I test direct drive.
This was the answer I have been searching for. I have spent the past 2 weeks on 3d printer forums asking why my print kept failing. People kept telling me it was wet filament but I knew it wasn't because it happened to 3 different spools and it was only on this one model. It has 4 thin walls and it kept snapping the filament when the infill started printing. I went through all the steps of checking the spools, the bowden tube, couplings, extruder, e-steps, temps, PID... Nothing helped. Then I found this little video, changed the settings in Cura and now printing the 18 hour piece without any issues. Thanks man!
This is a great tip, and though I've already been using these settings it did make me think about the spring tension on the extruder and how it could impact print quality. The BMG extruder allows you to adjust the spring tension.
A viewer mentioned that the stock spring is too stiff, an upgraded bed spring seems to work better, I'll try it when I have a chance. These extruders have an adjustment, but I can't imagine wanting to add any more pressure, so maybe a different sprint will help.
Everyone new to an ender 3 needs to see this video! I’m going to try this on mine as both have same issue.
Thank you..That's exactly what I was looking for. I recently was printing a small sized model and started hearing extruder knocking. The printing was finished leaving the model with under extrusion problem.
Good stuff. It's probably already been said but if you have any intention of running your switchwire enclosed I'd definitely suggest printing the parts from ABS or ASA. Voron parts are designed with ABS shrinkage in mind.
Oooooo someone is building a Voron......I'm working on getting V0.1 parts sourced it's been a fun little project so far.
I have no idea why Cura still doesnt Set the Beginner friendly settings like combing as default. This is a huge shortcomming as it makes getting into 3D-Pinting harder than it needs to be. Just take prusa slicer everyone! So much more powerful and streamlined. You even have well working profiles for Creality printers and others. You will not want to come back to this mess that Cura has become. The error in your case is caused by a soft material and extruder grip tension that is way to high. You did the right thing with this Dual Dive extruder.
My friend. Nice video. I had the very same issue with my ender 3 v2. It was happening only with softer filaments. What I did and solved 100% was to remove the preload nut that is connected to the extruder spring. This fix alone solved all my issues and I could print with the same G code that I was having failures beforehand. Cheers
Perfect, thank you for this. I've enabled this before not fully understanding these features, and the reason for failures on occasion which presented themselves regardless of the filament and any other physical changes I had made, I figured that it would help some others with the same issues. Thank you again for taking the time to leave a comment!
I was just struggling with this exact problem, this video came out at the perfect time!
Thanks man, this is exactly what was happening to my printer and exactly what I was looking for. 💯
Thanks for your tutorial and covering this issue. I was having this problem also with the extruder flattening the filament and binding in the bowden tube halfway through the print. There's virtually noting on RUclips about this. This only started happening when I replaced the original Creality tube with a better Capricorn one.
In Combing Mode I had "Not in Skin" checked so I checked "All" and that's fix the problem. This seems more of a patch solution so I think a duel drive extruder will be the best option.......
Good video and investigation, but you missed two key settings that will work to help this issue "Maximum Retraction Count" and "Minimum Extrusion Distance Window" default they are set way to high 100/1 which means it can retract 100 times over 1mm of moved filament. If you adjust the Windows to the length of your retractions and then adjust the count to something more like 10 or 20 it will limit excessive retractions over a small length of filament. It takes some trial and error to find the sweet spot, and something with way too many retractions could end too oozing but it is worth looking at. I just prefer the dual drive extruder option :)
There is an article with info on it at All3DP
Those are great tips I'll be sure to try them out. Which dual gear to do you prefer, I am testing two at the moment.
@@NeedItMakeItI have tried two BMG Clones (triangle labs and mellow) and both have served me well, the former is probably slightly better made. They were fitted to an Ender 3 Pro with quite a few Mods and then 2 of them on a SV02 dual extruder printer, both ended up as direct drive (well close to direct)
I'm about 2 weeks into tinkering with a BIQU BX printer that has a 7:1 H2 extruder, it's a beast but I'm yet to fully push it.
I spotted the newer BMG in your video, keen to see your thoughts.
Thanks, that’s exactly what i needed! I’m having this problem since i started using the Capricorn tubing recently.
The Cap tubes have a slightly tighter ID, which might be part of the cause. CHEP recently had a video on lubing the tube a bit, I'm curious to see how it might affect the results on my prints as well. Glad it could help a bit.
A but late, but... I think the are multiple reasons for skips / deforming of filament:
* too high a pressure on the filament in extruder
* too many short & frequent retractions (as you noted)
* too tight fit of filament in ptfe tube (filament tolerances)
* heat creep from the stepper motor to the driving gear touching the filament
Especially on long prints, the last one will start to play a big role. Solution of that one is a bmg style of extruder, where the filament driving gears are not directly connected to stepper, so the heat can not be transferred.
edit: this is what is being addressed by the M4 as well as you've observed in your other video
I wanted to know the cause of this as it caused jams and failed prints, thank you for the explanation
My pleasure, I've have this problem in the past a few times and it can be very frustrating.
I have this problem but on small prints with a lot of perimeters, and it stops extruding and literally makes a "bite" in the filament, is there any way to fix it, as i understand this fix wouldn't apply to perimeters, thanks in advance
@@NeedItMakeIt I can't imagine you are ever frustrated. You always sound so calm.
@@TuncayAyhan Oh I do, but I don't like to, I find that I am much more calm without Caffeine, all of the benefits of better sleep and no crash. Maybe I should make ASMR videos?
That extruder spring is waaaaaay to tight on that ectruders i just find out that the stock bed springs have the best tension (when upgrading bed spring to silicon spring. The stock bed spring get available). Also it does not have to tight at all when printing petg temps are always above 230C
Some good tips to keep in mind, this stock spring with the metal extruder does apply quite a bit of pressure even with the screw fully released. As far as temp, each filament is different, this one extrudes well as low as 200C, which is a bit unusual, however it is the cheapest PETG on the market.
Red it many times.
Yeah for real. I’ve never had this problem. And my extruder spring is pretty darn stiff. So that one must be super duper super stiff to cause that.
At most, mine will leave teeth marks. But even after several retractions, it doesn’t deform the shape. Seems like chasing ghosts, in my opinion. Could be wrong. But that’s unlikely.
@@rayaguilar9085 my Ender 3 max does this a ton. Just chews up filament makes printing with silk near impossible. I have to try 5-6 times with retraction settings to get silk to print and it changes with every print. Half a spool is used troubleshooting.
Had the same problem, I changed to direct drive to reduce the retraction and get rid of PTFE. THX for the other solution 👍💪
Great work man! Consistently good videos. Keep it coming
Thank you so much for this. I was having the same issue and combing definitely helped. Looking forward to more ender v2 tutorials from you
For sure, also try setting the maximum retraction amount from 100 down to something like 10, others have mentioned that this also works, I haven't tried it myself, but it sounds like it will limit those retractions which cause the jamb.
@@NeedItMakeIt went down to 20 and so far so good!
@@LeoGarcia3HC When I have some time I'll make a follow up video on extruder performance, single gear/dual gear/larger & smaller gears to see how it can impact this as well. Glad you're having success!
@@NeedItMakeIt All thanks to you! I'll be ringing that bell for notifications haha
@@LeoGarcia3HC Thanks Leo!
Just letting you know that the Voron parts ARE NOT supposed to be printed in PETG. PETG will flow at temperatures at which enclosures heat up to. It is a very big nono if you want your voron to print for more than 2 weeks :(
ABS is the ONLY material you should print your voron parts in
I will agree that some parts are best printed in ABS, anything in contact or near a heat source, everything else is fair game. They do suggest ABS in the instructions, Voron printers can be setup in an enclosure to print higher temp materials and will lead to softening.
I'm willing to try it in all PETG and see what happens, if it doesn't work, any parts which fail can be made in ABS. Does every parts need to be? I highly doubt it.
Hey @NeedItMakeIt maybe you should also try double the thickness of your infill, so you allowed to have less percentage and bigger shape's. Should be strong and also reduce some issues together with your mentioned tips.
Nice, for sure, I did also just experiment with a 0.5mm infill extrusion for a stiffer final product, and the print went well. Not sure about stiffness improvement yet. I'll have to find a good way to test it.
@@NeedItMakeIt Not shure if you get me right. I ment to double i.e. Infill line width. A additional wall is always better than more infill from my point of view. Everything always depends on the model and where the stress is coming from afterwards.
@@lazyman1011 A valid point. The further from the neutral axis the better, the issue I always run into is how to support the top without infill. Tree style infill? Most of my prints are structural and do require a heavy infill so they can support the loading applied, but this is probably unusual for a 3D print to only bear load in compression. Some food for thought for sure, thanks!
@@NeedItMakeIt Infill is not so easy to steer. You only allowed to adjust it not design it. So what you may try would be Cubic (subdivision) together with Gradual infill steps. Maybe you have enough top support then, the infill step high is adjustable. That would be my solution of your explanation if I understand you correctly. If you have well adjusted bridging capabilities with your printer you could also increase the top thickness and need less infill then if you don't need strong sqish direction parts and more nice looking ones.
Never had the problem but good to know!
this is a very good tutorial 👌😎
There is a setting for maximum retraction count for a given distance in Cura to solve this issue
great advice! good luck completing the voron parts, finished a 2.4 about 3 months ago and love it! are you just building an afterburner for your Ender or a full printer?
Thank you! I am prepping to build a SW, maybe two if I like it. I think a 2.4 would be better performance, but I wanted to start with something a little more familiar. I'll have a video out soon on the M4, so far so good!
@@NeedItMakeIt awesome. I’m working on converting my CR-10 to a SwitchWire currently. If you run into any problems feel free to reach out.
Is there any way i could buy you a coffee/support the channel directly? After implementing your solution my print that failed 9 times in a row finally printed! Some of your other videos helped me get the e3v2 set up perfectly too so i'd be happy to donate for all your help :)
Cura also has a maximum retraction setting which limits the amount of retractions that can happen over a certain length of filament.
It seems like Cura has more settings that you could ever use. It's overwhelming sometimes even for experienced printers.
In Cura there is a setting specifically to prevent this from happening, it's called "Maximum Retraction Count" .
This setting adjusts the number of maximum retractions on a specific area of filament to prevent damage, by default it's set to 100 which allows what you see to happen. Change it to 10.
I'll give it a try, thanks.
U should print yourself a direct drive mount. Their are files for it on things. Their are models that won't lower you print hight capacity. I think it would also help with the print quality.
Very helpful! Thank you!
I think this is also amplified if the petg is a bit moist, for me 2 hours at 60c for the filament in the oven fixed it.
That could be, extruding moist filament may require a higher nozzle temp. Recently I've been testing and reviewing a filament dryer, and it does a great job especially thanks to the humidity we've had lately in Ontario Canada. I was using the oven trick like you, my oven was a little hot even at the lowest temp and liked to bond the filament... not a fun surprise. I've found that PETG does absorb a lot quicker than ABS or PLA.
So are you building the Voron afterburner for your Ender? I was planning the same, with a linear rail in the X axis.
I think I may do that, but I am building a Switchwire as well. I want to learn more about the entire process, including electronics/firmware etc. I'll make it into a series once I get all of the parts together.
I don't use Cura anymore so I don't know if the feature still exists but you can look into the 'Maximum retraction count' setting.
Thank you so much! You saved my ass right before I was going to brainstorm this!
Someone else mentioned that there is a setting for max retraction count which is set to 100, maybe play with that as well.
@@NeedItMakeIt Thank you
hmm will have to check this after work. I just got the anycubic vyper yesterday and did the owl test print which didn't have any issues. After that I did a 7hr print of a lager model and it had clear signs of under extrusion in random areas at different height levels. Could also be the 1 year old filament too 😂
PETG Voron parts! ... Don't do it. You will only have to reprint them in ABS
I'm open to the possibility, however I also know that PETG will work on many of the locations on the printer, there are select few areas which might require something with higher temp resistance. Would you mind to share exactly why and where you think there would be a problem?
@@NeedItMakeIt Its not recommended by the designers, the parts are designed with the ABS shrinkage in mind(so a material with a different shrink factor will end up with parts with an incorrect size), and all the vorons printers are basically enclosed causing alot of problems with sagging printed parts. Even CNC kitchen, who used PA CF for his parts had this problem and his v0 was not enclosed...
@@NeedItMakeIt And PETG suffer from creep much more than ABS, if you print a Voron in PETG regardless of heat, any of the PETG under any tension will deform over time. You will be constantly troubleshooting and tightening up screws. Fair few horror stories on the Discord from people who went PETG.
Expect you could get away with PETG for much of the Afterburner, but even ABS part coolers have a tendency of deforming over time. There is a ression it is only used for plastic bottles and 3D printing, it's a terrible plastic! :)
Thank you so muchj for this video. Not a lot of resources about this issue. I tried your suggested setting in cura but I'm still getting the same issue. I ordered the dual gear extruder and will arrive tomorrow and I hope this will resolve the issue. Do you think getting a direct drive extruder will also solve this issue?
awesome explanation. thx. 😊
u got me, i subbed great work sir thanks
Awesome thanks, more content to come soon, have been super busy lately, getting back on track with videos now.
Thanks for this video!
good video thanks !
The gears on the extruder, did you have to do any kind of adjustment for feed speeds?
I did have the skipping problem, I didn't attribute it to the filament crush though, I eventually found that the bowden tube was not seated correctly at the heater and was causing jams. I was literally getting blow outs, with the tube being pushed out of the extruder mount point. I bought new holders and was still getting the same deal. I then realized you have to push the tube ALL the way in to the heater, not just to the tip of the holder. So that means that I may have been getting crushing earlier on, but it eventually pushed the tube out and was causing other problems. Noob move, but, fixed. (And I have a nice red tube on it now. ;) )
So do we want to enable that in all cases just to avoid all together?
I have it on for all prints, when I was creating new profiles I forgot to re-enable it and I started to run into these problems. It is not so great when you think you have something active and you really don't, it takes a while to troubleshoot it. 🤦♂️
Awesome channel to address problems like this in a great video!
Lots more to come and many more interesting 3D printing topics coming up! Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment.
@@NeedItMakeIt great! I am looking forward to it! I really appreciate the videos you make and I like that they are short but very well explained and demonstrated! Have a nice week! Greetings from Germany.
Hmm I watched a video about combing before I bought my printer, so I use combing turned on all the time. I was wanting to ask. What is a good tip for nozzle temps? If the filament says 190-230c, should you use the middle of those temps?
if this fixes my problem i love you ive been tearing my hair out for 2 days my print always seems to fail on larger prints when the infill starts
Have you tried a Bi-metal heatbreak? It greatly improved extrusion flow rate, check out the CNC kitchen video. For me my prints alot. Triangle lab one apparently works good at 20 dollars
I've added it to the list to test out, I think you/he are right it will make a difference. Thank you!
Brooo I've been diagnosing this issue for few days now it never used to happen but after heavily upgrading my setup this started on big prints. I think the main cause is a combination of too stiff spring and the upgraded extruder being aluminium therefore absorbing heat from the stepper below it and running in an enclosure, perhaps the tighter Capricorn tolerance doesn't help either! I knew it was retraction causing it to flatten and after printing the same model without retraction it worked. I even managed to print another large one with minimal stringing with 2mm retraction. I'll give this a go I tried to print recently with 0 infill and it still happened...
Do you think a direct drive with it's 1mm retraction could prevent this too?
EDIT I read an amazon review saying the original tension spring for the plastic extruder is shorter and softer, so I took a look and it is! I'm going to revert the spring only and see how things go
For direct drive would you set retractions below 5?
Direct drive will be somewhere between 0.5mm to 1mm. Direct drive is a nice upgrade, I'll be investigating this more in the future.
Red dual gear extruder works well. Also update firmware. Th3d has a great one.
Thanks, I have that one as well and I am pretty happy with it too, I am testing two others at the moment.
Great info, thanks.
You are welcome, thank you for the comment.
Uncanny timing with this video! I had this issue just yesterday, however I don't know if these setting tweaks would help me because my model has numerous bumps (simulating an appearance of gravel on terrain) all over the surface. Or at the very least, I'll have stringing all over the surface. Any thoughts or ideas?
ik this is really late but mine was having the same issue and when i calibrated e steps and flow it stopped!
@@snw0x0 Thanks for your insight. I still get problems when printing these types of surfaces. I've determined that the numerous retractions by the extruder flattened my filament, which got jammed in the bowden tube. I've tried loosening up the grip on the extruder, which sort of helped, but not always.
@@aceattorney yes i still have to fix that issue in mine, at this point i’m considering that filament brand is the problem
I’m having this exact issue, combing is already on with the “with in skin” set… is my next step replacing the stop extruder?
Can you email me at needitmakeit@gmail.com with a few pics and I can try to help you out.
Thx you! Have any Problem that the filament Stuck on the nozzle, that will hell me
Can`t you just losse extruder screw ?
Mine was set to the loose-est... setting, others have said to replace the spring with a bed spring and that works better. Personally I'd prefer a little more pressure, too loose and not enough pressure in itself will lead to slipping and that can ruin a print. Dual gear is the best solution I believe and I am in the process of testing some of these.
After the support has been laid out, it prints for 30 minutes before the nozzle catches in the printed matter and slides my whole projects around the plate. Any ideas on what I can do?
That's a build plate adhesion problem. Use a wider base (maybe a raft or a brim). Make sure your first layer is printed low enough. Make sure your first layer has a layer height of 0.2mm+. If all of that doesn't help, you can use 3D-printing-glue on your print bed.
Can you make a lack enclosure for E3v2 please?
I have so many projects on the go, I doubt I'd be able to add anything for a while. I like the idea though. They are very cheap.
Wow this is just great to know, thanks a lot! Btw, do you happen to use Prusa Slicer as well? For this feature to have an equivalent or something 😬
I'm sure there is, I have the slicer, but I have limited time and haven't had the chance to learn it yet. It is touted as a great slicer, I'm sure there is something similar. If not, there might be a setting to reduce the max amount of retractions, others have suggested that solution as well.
Hey, where do i get the part cooling fan mount? (Blue, topographic shape).
There is a link in my previous video description as well as an entire video on how I made it and testing it.
this is only good because we are all impatient and jam as many things as possible in one print session. i'm defiantly learning you shouldn't just add shit just because you see a video... he doesn't say this but that's why you would add it. if you add this for a single structure it might fuck it up
Where to find the comi mode?
Can this bei fixes in prusa slicer? I can't find the settings?
Avoid crossing perimeter, only retract when crossing perimeter,minimum travel after retraction
Dude I haven't even watched this video... But as far as getting things tram goes... I found a company called gulf coast robotics that makes a perfectly flat bed replacement and it's awesome.
do you have a link for the dual gear?
Before you take the plunge with this dual gear, it isn't that easy to setup on these printers unless you're well versed in modifying firmware, or you are okay with minor changes to current coming to the motors and reversing the motor rotation. www.bondtech.se/resellers/ I purchased mine at 3D Lab Tech in Canada. www.3dlabtech.ca/product/bondtech-lgx-large-gears-extruder/ I am still working out some kinks, the extrusion or perhaps retraction settings need to be adjusted to set the e-steps I had to run in a gcode file on the printer as I didn't want to modify the firmware:
M92 E415 - means adjust e-steps to, and a value of 415
M500 - means store that setting
I hope that helps.
Thanks for the detailed reply
thanks! Si tienen Cura en español, es en retracción, modo peinado
cool video, keep up the good work bro, i can also help if anybody needs it. i know so many people struggle with 3d printing its not an easy game but practice make perfect (just keep on printing) 😁
Thanks Luke, It looks simple from the outside, there are quite a few variables involved, experience makes all of the difference.
please don't make a voron out of PETG lol
Would you mind to explain why people are so set on using ABS? I figure we have maybe three parts on the build which would require ABS. Maybe I should ask the Voron crew directly. What I find is that people make comments like this without having tested anything themselves, I'm curious to know what the exact problem is with using PETG so I can be confident that avoiding it is necessary.
@@NeedItMakeIt come join the discord! People are more than happy to answer any and all questions there. There have been people who built vorons with various different materials and had catastrophic failures because of it, whether that may be due to creep, lack of temperature resistance, or poor dimensional accuracy. I can't provide any more concrete data other than that I've made certain parts with petg and had them fail very early, but there are others in the discord who could give you much better statistics and material properties
Men you are out. Too much pressure on the filament from extruder and temperature of extruder causing softening on filament.
Voron must be ABS.
The entire voron must be ABS?, Please explain.
❤️👍🏻
Кто-то ещё использует не BMG-like экструдеры?
Don’t print you Voron with petg
Thank you, I've heard this from a few others as well. One thing I really appreciate is when people explain why they make a suggestion such as yours. I print in PETG mainly because I can record video without the enclosure ABS is not so easy to do.
@@NeedItMakeIt yeah, the video is great. PETG fails gradually under heat creep. So if you build spec, you will be enclosed and thus suffer the same faith as CnC kitchen on his v0 build with his old filament
Just to make it clear: PETG starts failing way before it’s glass transition on melting point and this will affect you ability to keep everything in place in a motion system like the voron
@@glimps84 Thank you, very good info. Some parts could be made from PETG, for example the skirt around the printer, any parts with force being applied or will be inside the enclosure will require ABS, or purchase a kit of machined alum. parts.
vja
vum.fyi
stop using stupid tech, use ink jet 3d printers instead, or just 3d mill aluminium and cast, stacked layers or full body cast
What is the setting on prusas?