Im still so thankful for Drach... Every other channel i love listening to... Have SOOOO many ads added to their videos. All throughout the entore video. From start to end.
I am a hobbyist woodworker, mostly small items and I limit myself to hand tools, with the exception of a power circular saw and a pair of cordless drills. Steaming wood into various shapes is still part of the master craftsmanship skill set. I've seen them make perfect circles by steaming and pressing the wood. Most of this is relatively thin, but the same principle applies to thicker stock, you just need a press capable of more pressure. And sometimes it just snaps, but that's usually due to an unseen flaw in the wood. With extremely valuable and rare timber, the entire tree will be x-rayed and scanned and every square inch will be planned for cutting. I live on the coast of Maine and there are still a precious few handmade wooden boat shipyards, and until recently we had a school for such nearby ( sadly it closed due to lack of student numbers and funding). They still use the steaming method among other methods.
Perfect circles are something for lathes to produce, and I don't mean that crud for runout set ups that wood workers love. Get down to the 1/1000 of an inch rather than the 64th then we will discuss perfectly circular.
re: The U-boats that went to Argentina... When I was a kid there was a standing joke that after World War 2 there was an elderly cab driver Adolpho Hitlarez in downtown Buenos Aires.
I really enjoy these Q&A talks. Re crude oil's contribution to the sinking of Shokaku, I think I read the same book the questioner did. That factoid was memorable to me because I knew generally lighter products like kerosene and petrol combust more easily than heavier ones such as crude. I dug into it. It's a yes and no. Crude oil varies greatly in its constituency and some crude oil only ignites with great difficulty while other crude oils are practically a bomb waiting to go off. The variability has to do with the depth of the formation of the final crude oil deposit. The deeper you go the lighter the hydrocarbons and as such the more flammable it is. The shallower the deposit the more polymerised it is and the more difficult it is to burn. Crude oil literally varies from being mostly gas or propane to being so full of tar that it has to be diluted with naphtha just to pump it along. Some crude oil is as much as 10% iron oxide while other crude oils are so pure material they are clear like water. Because Japanese ships were using East Indies crude, I think we can deduce either it was a lighter variety or, if tar like, the Japanese may have added naphtha to it. There were seven oil refineries in the East Indies in various states of operation so they may have been able to pull this off. Light crude oil has an API gravity higher than 31.1°. I checked the API and sulphur content of _current_ Indonesian crude grades - could not find info for that of the 1930s. They range from 21.5° to 51°, and the majority of its crude is above 31.1°; 51° is equal to Saudi's Arabia's Arab Super Light. The world's lightest is 55°. All Indonesian oil grades are very low in sulphur. Bunker oil comes in A, B, and C grades and six numbered sub-grades. Bunker is not crude oil, but a residual after the higher quality products like kerosene and gasoline are removed from the crude. C is the lowest grade of residual, unless you count bitumen (asphalt). Bunker B No. 5 is also known as navy. Searching both Japanese and English resources online I cannot find what grade of bunker the IJN used, but will assume B No. 5. If I understand this correctly, high-quality light crude is more easily combustible than bunker. Steam turbines will pretty much run on anything that burns, but unrefined fuels are much more prone to explode if improperly ignited, as the lighter elements removed by the refining process are the most volatile portion of the fuel mixture. Certainly aviation gasoline was more combustible.
wrt the question about the TBD. The aviation museum in Kalamazoo, MI, which has gained a good reputation for restoring WWII Navy aircraft salvaged from Lake Michigan, is involved with a project to attempt salvage of several of the TBDs in the debris field around Lexington. Another target of the mission is salvage of an F4F in that debris field that was flow by both Thach and O'Hare. When I last talked with anyone from that museum's resto shop, last winter, the expedition was scheduled to set sail for the Coral Sea in May. I will probably make my annual visit to the museum this fall, so will inquire about any progress made.
That's awesome! I remember seeing the photos of those preserved Devastators and Wildcats (relatively recent IIRC), it would be super cool if they could manage to salvage some of them. Both getting them up to the surface without further damage, and quickly protecting them from the rapid onset of rust from being exposed to the air (however you do that).
The Air Zoo does fantastic work. For anyone interested, they have an entire restoration building open to the public where you can see them working on the aircraft. Plus they have some rare planes in there. Good to see the Air Zoo getting some love!
On the point of supercarriers. I had always thought the primary consideration was the potential airgroup capacity and it's ability to operate them. hence things like displacement, type of deck, catapults, ect were secondary, as they are what expands or restrict those capabilities. So essentially angled flight decks and high pressure steam catapults are not, in themselves, markers of a super carrier, they expand the capabilities of aircraft for more sorties by being able to run operations simultaneously and continually, so it's kinda needed for a super carrier. Kind of like the arguments of what heavy fighter is and some people thinking it's the size or weight that makes it a "heavy" fighter, when the military considers a heavy fighter to be a heavy fighter because of it's overall firepower. The size and weight is just a by product of carrying that increasing firepower creep. As newer aircraft are brought out, the "heavy" aircraft now becomes a medium fighter, then later light fighter, as the firepower creep keeps increasing with every generation. So, say, in comparison, you could build a ski jump carrier to the same displacement as a flat top catapult carrier like the Gerald Ford's, with the same size airgroup and an angle landing deck, but it's still not a super carrier because super , like heavy for planes and tanks, is based on firepower, and a ski jump carrier, has less firepower, and slower cycle time of that firepower. ski jump carriers vs a flat top with 4 catapults is severally gimped in the fact you can only launch 2 vs 4, and the fact you need lighter aircraft carrying smaller payloads. Your total firepower you can actually project and keep cycled is reduced.
A note on the US armor scheme being superior at medium and long ranges. THat reflects US doctrine which was to fight at long range - even extreme range (over the horizon with aircraft spotting). In turn, that reflected the USN's belief the next war would be in the Pacific under conditions of good to excellent visibility
The two-month transit time of the U-boats to Argentina is actually pretty reasonable. You have to remember that getting all the way down to Argentina is a really long way. They had to slow steam to conserve fuel so that they would have the range to make it. So the speeds they were making were more on par with warships from the age of sail than anything else. We’re talking speeds around 7-8 knots, plus more time for every time they dived to avoid a plane or ship. The simple truth is that the ocean is really big and (with the exception of 977’s well documented break at the islands, there wasn’t anything else that they could have done on the journey that would have let them still get to Argentina when they did without running out of fuel.
And another thing about plankings is they could be put through a planer which would make the piece smaller but take off the part of the wood that has weathered. Leaving a rather sturdy result that could be used for the siding of a house or if still thick enough be used for the underlying roofing of a house. Good pieces of wood, especially hard wood that is not rotten can be used for a vast amount of things. Furniture, housing construction, etc... My step-dad, Billy worked for a couple of years at a place that built furniture, & a lot of what they built they made from whiskey barrels. We even had a whiskey barrel bar that he built. But there was numerous ways of repurposing whiskey barrels into other things. Billy was really good at doing upholstery and adding like colorful brass tacks all the way around for ornamentation. He really did beautiful work. We had a VW Bug that had caught fire. He re-upholstered the seats and they were better than brand new. And I say better than cuz he added extra cushion to the seats that hadn't been there when new! He grew up doing upholstery in his Mom's shop. I'll never forget the night the VW caught fire. We were night fishing at a carp & carfish lake.It was kinda my fault but not. I had been the last one to go into the car. The battery was underneath the back seat. And the plastic caps that covered the battery terminals had gotten knocked around. The metal part of the back seat arched against the battery & caught the underneath part of the back seat on fire. Someone drove past & said "Hey, ya'lls VW sure is smoking a lot!" And when we looked over there was black smoke billowing out the passenger window. When we opened the door the whole inside erupted in flames & we spent the next 15 minutes running back & forth with buckets & coolers throwing water in it. Somebody said, "Ya'll best get away from it before it blows up!" And Billy said "I just spent $2,000 on rebuilding the motor in this thing, if it's going to blow up, it's gonna do it with me pouring water on it!" It didn't blow up. Actually there was very little damage. He had to do a little bit of rewiring & re-upholster the seats. And it was good to go.
Speaking of Age of Sail songs, my personal favorite is "Barrett's Privateers" by Stan Rogers. It's a hell of a story about serving during the Revolutionary War. *_Our cracked four-pounders_* *_made an awful din_* *_but with on one fat ball_* *_the Yank stove us in_* *_God damn them all_* *_we were told_* *_We'd cruise the seas_* *_for American gold_* *_We'd fire no guns_* *_shed no tears_* *_Now I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier_* *_The last of Barrett's privateers_* Look it up, it's well worth the listen. 😰
Stan rogers has such good renditions of songs... makes me want to feel the ocean again. I live in south germany. No ocean in sight. Now I'm sad god dammit
I quoted you at me local yatch club and i was laughed at all the way out! Even the valet boy snickered when he handed me the keys to me bentley. You sir have made a fool of me and the house of Shaftshire!
Regarding scuttling -- if you force an enemy to scuttle a ship, that sinking is yours. Scuttling your own ship is plain admission of enemy victory. The Bris sank the Bismarck, the Japanese sank Lexington, and so on. The rest is mythmaking.
I liken it to; if someone throws you off a 50 story building, but, as you fall passed the 5th floor you pull out a gun and shot yourself: then technically the fall didn't kill you... but... it was going to.
@@Wolfeson28 Not especially, but more because her low speed would allow Bismarck to completely control the engagement, including simply staying out of reach.
As for the world’s strongest navy, I’d say Royal Navy up to about 1940-ish, and the US Navy from 1943-ish, but possibly the Imperial Japanese Navy for about 18-24 months ending in May 1942. After the RN takes losses in 1939-41 and USN losses at Pearl Harbor, I believe the IJN was the strongest navy for that brief period. Their carriers, air groups, battleships/battle cruisers and the long lance. Pretty hard to beat.
remember the Japanese faced a segment of the RN, USN, while the RN, USN faced the totality of the IJN . so the IJN might have been the strongest navy at some point in that theatre, but not on a global scale. The IJN was never a Global Navy, the RN , and USN were, so no I don't think based on that the IJN was ever the most powerful navy, as it couldn't even project power outside its region. I think that 1 reason automatically disqualifies it, as it had no presence in the Atlantic of any note the Arctic Circle, or the Med, nor could it have the need justified
Your attitude concerning the BISMARCK sloped-deck armor idea is very similar to mine. "All or nothing" lower hull protection from above-the-waterline side hits, but sacrificing an entire deck of upper hull to do it, which makes post-battle survival, if heavy hull damage occurs, much less likely in BISMARCK.
My alternate idea, that the hit that killed HOOD is at the lower part of the 7" upper belt and through that and the sloped 2" HT fragment-protection deck into the aft engine room, is otherwise identical to yours. This was found in the actual 15" Mark 5 APC shell tests of HOOD's design and fixed over the magazines by a 3" horizontal HT deck -plate in the gap in front of the 2" sloped HT deck plate, but never fixed due to weight considerations over the power plant spaces. If the HOOD was angled towards the BISMARCK when hit, the 15" shell from BISMARCK would go aft and either explode near the thin vertical HT bulkhead between that space and the magazines or pass into the aft 4" magazines first, just like your scenario. In either case, good chance of KABOOM. My hit has much more chance due to a larger "keyhole" hit region to cause the damage. We'll never know, though...
Regarding the question on escort carrier operations at 24:57; the RUclips channel "US Bombers" has been running an excellent series on US bombers versus the German U-Boats. He quotes quite a bit of primary source material in the series. Although the main effort of the series is the use of the B24 Liberator against submarines, there is a lot of material that spills over. He covers development and use of sonobouys, FIDO torpedos, and depth bombs, much of which were also carried by Avengers and Catalinas. IMHO, it's definitely worth looking at if you have any interest in aircraft versus submarine operations!
Many ships were scuttled because the damage was so severe that is was better to abandon the ship and have it sink than to risk more crew casualties trying to save the ship. All navies scuttled ships, what is important is not whether ship X was scuttled but that ship X was so badly damaged she was in sinking condition by the enemy.
And then there's _USS Hornet,_ who simply refused to go down. The Japanese did find her, but they were unable to exploit it and decided to sink her themselves. I believe two of their destroyers put mount's worth apiece into her before she grudgingly went down.
@@mbryson2899keep in mind that Hornet’s sisters are Yorktown. A ship that was claimed sunk multiple times and took a lot of damage to finally go down. As well as Enterprise who was a floating wreck at one point during the Guadalcanal Campaign and when she lost her forward elevator in 1945 kept at speed and in formation with the rest of TF58. Despite being on fire and flooding due to broken water mains.
@@ph89787 Understood. The _USS Yorktown_ was under tow (by the _Vireo,_ if memory serves) when _I-168_ stuck one of two torpedos into her, writing her epitaph. Absent that she would have been repaired. That class was all-caps TOUGH, no doubt about it. _USS Enterprise_ and _IJN Shokaku_ both absorbed amazingly large amoumts of damage compared to their peers.
I would think that ‘supercarrier’ is a relative term that should be used for ships that are step changes in size/capability from the previous generation, but which gets superseded in turn when the next big one comes along. But the whole concept is pretty silly. Nobody ever built ‘superdestroyers’, even when (say) the big French destroyers were so much bigger than their contemporaries.
Look up Southern Live Oak and you can see how they get the curved shape in the wood grain. Another way is to dig up the stump. The stump curves out as it hits the ground and continues below ground a few feet giving you curved grain.
Saving at least one of each aircraft type for a museum doesn’t seem to have been considered at the end of WW2. Witness the total lack of a B-32 at the USAF museum because they were all scrapped. The last aircraft to suffer a casualty in August 1945 and a unique one at that - gone.
Consider these soldiers saw all these assets as expendable. That combat life of an asset was expected to be short. They were disposable tools to an end. The minute the war ended they had no more value than a candy wrapper. That line of thinking would change, and now we weep. 😢 Respectfully
@0:25:00ish (CVE's) The US Depth Bomb was set to explode near the surface since the amount of time you could "accurately" target a diving submarine was very limited since the sub was not only going deeper (Fast!) but could also be making a turn to port or starboard. These bombs weren't all that big when you compare them to what a surface ship carried. The US 3 inch HVAR (High Velocity Aircraft Rocket) actually had No Explosive! It had a high grade steel nose designed to punch through a sub's hull.. Since the sub would be diving it was felt that a direct hit anywhere on the hull should sink it. Then you have the Mark 24 "mine" aka FIIDO! (Both from my own personal research over the years and "US Bombers" series where among other things they do include the ASW patrols
And, they would be able to fight off ships larger then small light cruisers. For that matter, a 4 ship group of them could see off pretty much any BB squadron other then a group of say, all 4 Iowa's.
Drach, I am going to have to disagree with you on the comparison of defenses of Wake vs Midway. Taking USN, AAF, and USMC air out of the equations (and those were huge discrepancies) , Wake had the 1st Marine defense battalion at one third strength (15 officers and 373 enlisted). A couple of their batteries could not be manned for lack of personnel. Midway had the full 6th Defense Battalion (38 officers and 939 men peacetime numbers) plus the 2nd Raider Battalion (Carlson's Raiders), which would have been a few hundred troops. And Midway had five light tanks and a squadron of PT boats. From what I've read, the Midway defenses were pretty much complete while Wake's where still under construction. And that doesn't include a functioning RADAR, which Midway had.
@@timschoenberger242 raider company was 133 total by T/O. The companies weren't at full strength., When sent to Midway. Soore like 200 rather than a few hundred
@@craigplatel813 Thanks, Craig. That's about what I figured. I used the numbers I had heard about for the Makin Island raid as a basis. Do you know if James Roosevelt was at Midway? I have never read that he was there.
Commencement Bay class were CVE's because of a matter of speed. Their air group 34 aircraft. and their top speed was 19 knots. The Independence class CVL's had 45 aircraft, but could do 32 knots. 100,000 shaft horse power versus 16,000 makes a difference
HMS Manxman was a movie star. She played the part of a German raider, Essen, in “Sailor of the King” aka “Single-Handed”. HMS Cleopatra played two parts, HMS Amesbury (sunk by Essen) and HMS Stratford. HMS Glasgow was shown in long shots and her triple 6” guns were used in close-ups to depict the Essen firing.
Two things about carrier flight deck operations. Not sure about the RN, but US WW2 carriers (including the CVE's provided to the RN) used hydraulic catapults. The USN used gunpowder catapults on battleships and cruisers. Second, in the USN, the biggest change over time was the putting of landing and launch under the control of the Landing Signal Officer, not the pilot's judgement.
2:43:50 And yeeted the forward superfiring pair of 6 inch turrets, kept the barbettes and slapped a 4.5 inch BD mount on it. Which contradicts RN placement of the 4.5 inch BD mounts and makes absolutely no sense. Not to mention that she is clearly in her final design judging by the structure and mast layouts and the existence of the stern lip. Yet for some reason reason, she only gets the 16.5” gun that wasn’t even in the final design instead of pulling a Lion and making the 16” be the stock guns and have the 16.5” be an upgrade. G3 was designed with 16.5” and 16” in mind and makes sense to have options for both, unlike Lion, who not one of their myriad of designs almost a decade featured anything other than 16”, 15”, and 14” for the main batteries. 2:47:00 I agree for the most part but I think they would retain their 16” armament (the 16.5” was dropped after the preliminary design) and more importantly they would have kept the forward superfiring 6” turret instead of replacing it with a 4.5" BD mount. I think realistically it would be more like Naval Creed's modernization (although they didn’t give her her correct stern) which is 6x2 4.5” and 8x2 6”.
Hey Drach, I was reading the wikipedia article on HMS Roebuck and it says that while she was classified as a fifth rate, the Royal Navy did not consider her a frigate but rather something more like a mini ship of the line (which then makes the beating that Bonhomme Richard received while fighting Roebuck's half sister HMS Serapis even more impressive). Could you please elaborate more on this distinction, and are there any other examples of ships in the age of sail that did not fit cleanly in a frigate or ship of the line category?
Thanks for answering my question! One small correction, though: at 2:54:15, it wasn't a pair of Towns; HMS Jamaica was a Crown Colony. 🙂 One incident I do recall about Burnett: When the Sheffield came upon two German destroyers in the Barents Sea engagement and opened fire on them and bore down on one, the Friedrich Eckholdt, Burnett growled to the Sheffield's captain, "Ram the blighter, nobby." However, quick firing salvoes of 6-inch shells were enough and the poor destroyer broke in two from the barrage.
Regarding Nagumo after Midway, I think the whole issue of "we can't sack anyone important because we can't admit we were defeated badly enough to warrant it" was the primary factor. Keep in mind that Midway was being presented to the Japanese public as another great victory, and the Navy was directly trying to conceal the extent of their losses from the IJA (including Tojo). While the name of Nagumo's command changed, it still constituted the IJN's primary carrier striking arm and included all their their remaining large fleet carriers - there just weren't nearly as many of them anymore. So Nagumo still held essentially the same command as far as its role in the fleet, and was still the primary carrier fleet commander for the next two major carrier battles (Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz). He was only relieved of that command after Santa Cruz, by which point the air groups had been so devastated that the carrier force clearly wasn't going to be doing much for a while.
44:01 _With_ a ramp, and _without_ a catapult, I don't think QE gets to claim super-carrier status, no matter how big she is. (This is not a jingoistic statement.)
Age of sail they would identify by the sail plan, number of masts etc. Brig , Sloop, Snow etc. If you waited until they were Hull up, it could be too late. In correspondence they were particular about weight of broadside. I'm talking English navy, other nations may have judged different.
1:43 Yes can see them missing their cannon going of, more so if you also take damage. Now using an ramming rod and before that the cleaning tools it would be very smart to paint an ring or better have an disc showing how far it should go in and as its multiple steps to load, cleaning then ramming its an good chance some would spot it.
Regarding the mark 14 & 15 torpedo question. Wasn’t the mark 15 used on PT boats? Which would have presented a bigger problem with PT boat attack on convoys like the Tokyo Express.
PT boats were equipped primarily with Mk 8 torpedoes and Mk 10 torpedoes (the predecessors of the Mk 14 Mk 15, respectively) in the early war. And these had a variety of their own issues including too small of a warhead to reliably kill much and tubes catching fire during launch. Later on they started being equipped with Mk 13 torpedoes (the air-dropped torpedo). If you see images of a torpedo just rolling off a rack at the edge of the boat, it would be a Mk 13.
@ 0:52:29 "Private SNAFU" (Situation Normal All "Fouled" Up) and the US Navy's & Marine's "McGuilicuty" (pretty certain I spelled that one wrong) are a bunch of training films that insert humor and sometimes somewhat adult humor into the Training Films just to keep the audience paying attention. Please remember these were done in the early to mid 1940's so some of the humor and depictions are not considered "politically correct" now....
Some WWII vintage training films , possibily including animated works, *might* be found on a YT channel with a name for the mechanism that submarines use to see above the surface while submerged.
@@spikespa5208 There are quite a few channels with training films from a wide variety of eras out there, but that one is acut above most that I've seen.
Stop That Tank! is a Disney film about the Boys anti-tank rifle and a mix between propaganda and training films. It is actually a pretty fun little film.
52:30 There is an excellent exhibit on Walt Disney cartoons demonstrating training and propaganda. It is showing now at the National World War II Museum in New Orleans.
2:14:14 If anyone finds this perplexing, don't. There were 706 P-61 Black Widows produced during the war. It saw extensive post-war service, including civilian service. Do you know how many P-61s are still surviving today out of those 706? ...4. Just. Four.
To be fair, not sure that the Italian army even did that badly on a unit per unit basis in the North African campaign; they weren't successful, but it was a very difficult supply situation and by some measures outperformed the Germans, but the Germans just wanted to blame them for defeat.
1:42:31 There were infantry weapons recovered from, IIRC, the Gettysburg battlefield with six separate charges in the barrel, one on top of another. The supposition -- given that these were virtually always recovered from among the dead, so their wielders wouldn't be available for comment -- is that, in the chaos and distraction of a battlefield, the soldiers got confused about whether they'd reloaded, and went through the motions again. Given the similar situation that can occur on the gun deck of a ship, particularly if a gun crew gets called away to deal with a more urgent problem -- helping right a dismounted gun, putting out a fire, etc. -- and might not remember where they were in the evolution, especially if the gun captain got replaced, perhaps due to injury.
The explanation I've read for the Gettysburg case is that the soldiers probably just forgot to replace the percussion cap after each shot, and failed to notice the lack of recoil when they pulled the trigger.
I read somewhere tha oak trees felled for use in shipbuilding was usually 200 years old it grows by about 1 inch circumstances a year so that gives a diameter of about 5 ft less bark
Regarding 01:45:22 (Would a 4.7" DP gun fit the same BD mount as the 4.5"?) in 1947 Argentina negotiated several designs with United Kingdom (Aircraft Carriers, Cruisers and Destroyers) with armed with Mark IX* 4.7" DP guns. One of the proposed mounts was the double barrel british Mark XX (as the L class destroyers), others was similar to the double barrel spanish Mark F AA (as the Canarias and Mendez Nuñez cruisers).
With complete hindsight of WWII, what would have been the best ship choices for the RAN in the period immediately following the treaties and the need to scuttle HMAS Australia? Would/could the RAN have been able to operate a carrier in the late 1930s, or would you have gone with more Crown Colony/Dido class cruisers in lieu of the Counties and Modified Leanders?
Yes, I was going to point that out! She was in drydock at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked. Her forward magazine blew up, literally blowing her bow off, and sinking the floating drydock, but the rest of the destroyer remained afloat. A temporary bow was built and she sailed under her own power to the Mare Island navy yard.
Those two Italian battleships in the late 1870s that used the British "100-Ton Gun" also used the first non-wrought-iron ship armor, the new French Schneider et Cie. mild steel armor (very brittle due to difficulties in toughening steel back then), which could STOP the shells from the big guns; the first time that was true for ship armor. It took the British to invent laminated steel-faced iron "Compound Armor" to try to match it, with spotty success. So those Italian ships were new in several ways.
In the movie Zero Hour, the CVN Nimitz battle group is shifted to the attack on Perl Harbour. How would you expect the crew of a Brittish Royal Navy fleet in 1812 to react and try to describe an encounter with, say, the USS New Jersey and her escort group on their way back to the US after Desert Storm. Presuming the US battlegroup is flying their colours but otherwise no agressive or evasive manouvering other than to follow modern maritime conventions on placement when passing sailing ships on the open sea.
I imagine they'd be spending their time finishing the ships' rum supplies as quickly as possible, leading to rather questionable descriptions of the event. Maybe a few of them find religion and track down the ship's chaplain to pray the visions away. The most optimistic ones might be frantically taking notes and making sketches for whatever good that does them. One assumes the US commanders have enough genre savvy to realize that there are probably some of their sailors' ancestors on the RN ships and forego simply annihilating them in passing. Most likely they'd simply avoid contact as much as possible if they were sure they'd been displaced in time, although where they go from there without wrecking the continuum is beyond me. If the time cops haven't already shown up for a slip that big then they probably don't have jurisdiction, so maybe assume you've gone sideways and what you do to the parallel you're in has no temporal consequences. At that point you can go wild, I guess. Does the battlegroup have the assets and tradeable knowledge to end US slavery a half century early? Or make the government honor their treaties with the Native Americans and stop with the de facto attempted genocide? And how about jumpstarting universal suffrage? I bet it does, even with no prospect of resupply. Just "little" things like knowing how to teach people to manufacture the simpler antibiotics ~133 years before penicillin went on the market IRL earns a lot of cred for any other "suggestions" you might make. Just watch out for the Malthusian nightmare you might spawn. Reductions in mortality rates can snowball fast, you'll probably derail the World Wars under a de facto Pax America, and a 2023 where the global population is an order of magnitude larger would be real bad.
@@richmcgee434 universal suffrage has not had the best effect starting with prohibition and spawning the mafia. And I don't think the government ever keeps promises let alone to the native Americans and could the government even stop natural population pressure.
Wow. You people really think about these "what if" scenarios WAY TOO MUCH! I mean, they might be fun for a movie but come on, we still are living in the real world & our history is still our history, & nothing we can do to change that history. But we can learn from it, & not make the same mistakes.
I would think the Japanese may have been a little thin on the ground (water) at the Wake Island attack because of the resource demands of the other attacks going on in other areas at the time that had been concluded by the time of Midway. At 1:35 Could the 47th gun been mounted on the centerline on a swivel, similar to warships in the 1860s? In the war of 1812 some small privateers would carry one large gun in that manner, since it was larger than they could normally carry. At 1:42 double loading; In the US Civil war (I think) during the panic of the battle line one soldier had put five (or more, don't remember offhand) in his rifle but didn't fire it. At 2:00; I wonder if the mark 15 had the same depth sensor location that caused depth keeping problems. There was one proved MK15 warhead malfunction. After action against USN DDs the IJN Sigure had steering problems when the rudder was checked in port there was a torpedo sized hole in it. A hit but no bang. At 2:14, Over ten years ago a TBD was found by divers in relatively shallow water. (Caribbean?) But salvage law requires the Navy to release it's claim on the plane. When asked the Navy refused permission. They were fought in court and told the Navy they would recover the aircraft, restore it and donate it to the US Navy Aircraft Museum. The Navy still refused. After all the time was wasted in court the salvors decided that the wreck had deteriorated beyond saving and dropped the whole thing.
If you had to talk about watergate would you defer to oceangate as a way to tell us a story about a doomed submarine? Some gotta ask. Can you tell us a couple stories about early diving?
USN BB replacement plan Arkansas - North Carolina Texas - Washington New York - South Dakota (both were fitted as flagships) Nevada - Indiana Oklahoma - Massachusetts Arizona - Alabama Pennsylvania - Iowa (both were fitted as flagships) New Mexico - New Jersey Mississippi - Missouri Idaho - Wisconsin Tennesse - Montana California - Ohio Colorado - Maine Maryland - New Hampshire West Virginia - Louisiana Kentucky and Illinois were inserted into the program by Congress after it was realized that the Treaty system had collapsed and there were liable to be delays with the Montanas
Please drach. Talk about music on ships and jazz bands like Glenn miller. Was it frequent for the men to ad hoc figure and jam or we’re there actually naval procedure?*
What are ships bands and were they common besides having officers with cellos in their private quarters? Musicians mate and bugler seem all good but can you talk about Benny Goodman and the ships bands role in regular morale keeping?
If the uss New Jersey shot it’s Band out of its 16” guns from her spot on the Camden waterfront would they being fifty caliber land them short of Philadelphia… ??
Agree that the term "super carrier" is not well defined. Generally it refers to capabilities, not just size. Op tempo, air group size, air group capabilities, range of ships, sensor package, comms package, etc.
I don’t think I fully agree with your argument about the super carriers. Yes Midway may have been considered a super carrier for its time at the end of the 40’s and the 50’s. but what is considered a “super carrier” has clearly changed as much larger ships have come into existence. It would just be hard to justify calling QE a “Super Carrier” today when the GRF class displaces about 35k tons more which is roughly half the QE more in displacement. Also I don’t know if it’s necessarily a “requirement “ for a Super Carrier to be nuclear powered today but I think that could be argued.
@@jackgee3200 I think size is generally what originally gave the “super carrier“ that title. A midway carrier in 1947 with 65k ton displacement must of seemed like a giant compared to the Essex class that was being pumped out just recently before at about half the displacement (33k). And whether you have STOL capable aircraft on the deck I don’t really see as being anything to do with classifying the carrier. They are putting STOL aircraft like the F35c on what was originally supposed to be Helicopter/Light Carriers before. I was just suggesting that being nuclear powered could be another possible requirement to consider a carrier “Super” because of the enormous added capability that it adds to the ship but size overall has been the main factor in determining how one classifies it as being super or not for the time period your in. I would consider Chinas new Carrier a Super Carrier I believe it’s like 80 tons or something around there although I believe it’s conventionally powered they are working on an even larger potentially nuclear powered ship that would be more in line with the U.S’s ships. But I agree that QE is a very capable ship that the majority of the worlds oceanic powers should be jealous of and the U.K can and should be proud of as a flagship.
I was under the impression & had assumed The Royal Navy was THE most powerful Navy up until the massive war ship building in the USA during WW2 eclipsed the size of the Royal Navy & one, since the USA had become the UK's Ally during the war & two because of WW2 the UK vastly shrunk in it's world wide holdings so it no longer needed such a large Navy to protect the holdings that remained. And that by Wars end the British & the USA were trying to reduce their Navy's in general but still remain large enough to be the two most powerful Navy's in the world so as to be a deterant against any communistic take overs. But as an American, I really don't see "the standard battleships" standing long against the Royal Navy battleships. But by the end of WW2 with the North Carolinas, South Dakota's, Iowa's & the major swarm of the Essex's by 1943 or 44 the USA had definitely eclipsed the Royal Navy by a significant margin. But with our continued interests in world around us being close to the same we had little to no chance at going to war against each other. And as far as Nazi's ending up in Argentina? Hey, if you were a high ranking Nazi & had information about a large amount of gold. Loading it on a U-boat & getting out of Germany before it falls would be a very tempting idea!!! Never underestimate the power of greed & fear linked together to make people do stranger things than making for Argentina. Hell, depending upon where they rocked up, if they had gold bars, I'm sure they could have bribed there way into the US even.
1:30:28 The USS Midway was initially designed as a battleship. They adapted the hull to be an aircraft carrier, and actually the Midway class suffered stability issues for their entire lives as a result. Pilots today still speak of the disconcerting 'corkscrewing' the Midway and Coral Sea would sometimes do as they attempted to land. This was an artifact of their hulls being designed as battleships.
I don't think you got that right. She originated as a study for an armoured carrier, which in order to fit a sufficiently large airwing, became a very large carrier. The engineer space was however subdivided based on the design of the Montana class battleship. Saratoga was the last US conversion from a capital ship, although several escort carriers where rebuilds of commercial ships or based on light cruiser hulls (but newbuilds if I remember correctly).
@@Tuning3434light carriers of the independence class were conversions if Cleveland class light cruiser hulls. They had the speed to keep up with the Essex class.
@@Tuning3434During Midway's last deployment during the First Gulf War, it was more maneuverable in the Persian Gulf than other newer carriers. This was because its hull and rudders (and machinery) were based on the unbuilt Montana Class battleships. (Reversely(?), the hulls and machinery of the Alaska Class "very heavy" cruisers were identical to the Essex class carriers.)
Re the double loading of guns, it would seem to me that the person using the ramrod would notice it only went in part way. I'm assuming that the era when it was a more common problem was before hand ramming ended.
“Supercarrier” is like “pocket battleship”. It sounds great in newspapers, and seems more impressive, but really isn’t an accurate description when you start to dig into it
"Super" means a ship is too big to fit through the Panama Canal. It's a size designation. While Forestall Class Carriers could fit through the canal , they could only do so if they were almost fully unloaded (No aircraft and very little fuel).
@@glennchartrand5411 Is it though. It has its origin in superdreadnaught, 14" armed 2nd generation dreadnaught battleships. It is really just a way of saying bigger and badder.
@@egoalter1276 Super is just a size designation. Like "Supertanker" Any ship called "super" is just a ship too big to fit through the original Panama canal. Up until the Forestall class , all American Carriers were required by Congress to be able to use the Panama Canal. The Forestall class could technically fit through if they were fully unloaded of planes and jet fuel....and you took down all the light poles along the locks. Pop culture seized on the term "Super Carrier" without understanding what it really means. The Navy needed larger ships to handle the new jet aircraft so Congress authorized the construction of "Super-sized" Aircraft carriers that couldn't fit through the canal no matter what steps you took first.
I -am having to rewrite this question since I had a browser crash that lost this while I was typing it the first time... at about the 45 minute mark you mention the tons, and it hit me that we have a few different kinds of Tons on the planet currently, how did it work in WWII when allies were discussing tons, and was there "local" tons used to try to squeeze more out of treaties or to even exaggerate how large a vessel was to try to INTIMIDATE Foes...? Which Ton do you have to convert to on this channel, or is there some confusion on the subject? We have the Short ton *US) we have Long Ton British, we have Metric Tonnes, and I think we have or Had some sort of Short-weight/Long-Weight Tons, and Deadweight tons, and AT Tons and I think something about -a Dry ton not sure if some of this is just same measurement from different areas or whatnot. Hell I swear I have heard of a TOE Ton which has to be from sci-fi right? And of course we have all the Slang uses even in history about costing a ton or 2 tons.... So many tons.
Treaties generally defined how you computed tonnage, and presumably also which kind of tonne. With so many different measures of tonnage (I think cargo weight in some cases for civilian vessels, at least two measures of displacement for naval vessels, etc) they had to spell it out. Famously the UK got everyone to agree that our water tanks were measured empty, so we got much of our long range cruising water supplies outside of tonnage limits. They mysteriously turned out to look oddly similar to water filled torpedo bulges. In general the different units used in different countries were known, if only because of commerce. The first time an American merchant sold X number of US gallons of whisky to a British merchant, the different units would be obvious. I’m not sure how it was dealt with when allies cooperated. I’ve seen technical discussions and specifications that went back and forth, but I only recall scientific units (and an ohm or whatever is standardised world wide) or were length, which were shared by the countries in question, as I was looking at WW2 UK/US stuff. Nowadays NATO has STANAGs, which agree clearly how things will be done, to allow interoperability.
Forrestal is a super carrier; QE2 is a super carrier… it’s the capability that qualifies them (size matters as well). They have a much higher operational tempo than other countries’ ships. Whether it’s a Nimitz or a QE2 showing up off your coast, you’re still sh**ting bricks!
Can you explain the drums on the ships that had bands? How frequently did ships have bands of musicians or was it very common on capital ships and aircraft carriers? I’m sure even submariners had them as well within the channels scope. When did this begin or was it just shanty and singing for the sailors?
My understanding is that one or a few musicians was more common than a band. The bugle and the drum were both common as military signalling/comms, to relay orders on land. I have a strong recollection of drums being used on ships, but I’m not sure where from. Boatswains pipes certainly seem to have been used for that.
@@DanielsPolitics1 was there ever really the slave driving drum guy on triremes? Seems like a way to communicate when flag signs and Morse code werent things. I thought they even found drums on Mary rose. I hope he does a musical number while answering.
@@kkupsky6321 drums, bugles, and pipes are more about communicating on the ship, to the crew. The equivalent of the 1MC (pa system on board) and alarms (general quarters, collision alarm, etc).
Damn you, dear Drach. As much as I absolutely hate you for publishing such a marvelous content, as always, I'm still stuck around drydock circa 170. Yes, because it is naval related sleeping aid 😁 I can't miss even a minute of what you're telling us, so some episodes are living with me for couple consecutive evenings. It would be disrespectful not to watch/hear them top to bottom. You should be tried for being too good at what you're doing 😁😉 Nevertheless, my deepest appreciation and chapeau bas! PS. My better half is starting to hate you, because I do spent more time with you than with her 🤦
46:10 - IIRC, isn't the main reason a lot of people don't consider the _Queen Elizabeths_ supercarriers that they're STOVL carriers (and, thus, severely limited in the aircraft they can operate)?
I wish I could pay for a question but I figure I’ll just be persistent about ships bands. They had some groups in photos I’ve seen I know there’s musicians mate and such but please enlighten us. Thanks drachifinel. Can I call you drach? Thanks drach. Yer the best
Dr Seuss made training films. And green eggs and ham is a result of mermite food containers would impart a green cast to the eggs,ham , and sausages of Army chow served in the field.
In the video about italian frogmen you said that the shallow mediterranean waters did not offer any significant cover/camouflage for the italian submarines against airplanes and now you hint again that there is a difference between the visibility (at the same depth) in the north atlantic and the mediterranean sea. Why is that? Temperature? Oceanwaves?
Im still so thankful for Drach... Every other channel i love listening to... Have SOOOO many ads added to their videos. All throughout the entore video. From start to end.
Thanks for the mention Drach! And thanks for dispelling myths
I am a hobbyist woodworker, mostly small items and I limit myself to hand tools, with the exception of a power circular saw and a pair of cordless drills.
Steaming wood into various shapes is still part of the master craftsmanship skill set. I've seen them make perfect circles by steaming and pressing the wood. Most of this is relatively thin, but the same principle applies to thicker stock, you just need a press capable of more pressure. And sometimes it just snaps, but that's usually due to an unseen flaw in the wood.
With extremely valuable and rare timber, the entire tree will be x-rayed and scanned and every square inch will be planned for cutting.
I live on the coast of Maine and there are still a precious few handmade wooden boat shipyards, and until recently we had a school for such nearby ( sadly it closed due to lack of student numbers and funding). They still use the steaming method among other methods.
Perfect circles are something for lathes to produce, and I don't mean that crud for runout set ups that wood workers love. Get down to the 1/1000 of an inch rather than the 64th then we will discuss perfectly circular.
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re: The U-boats that went to Argentina... When I was a kid there was a standing joke that after World War 2 there was an elderly cab driver Adolpho Hitlarez in downtown Buenos Aires.
I really enjoy these Q&A talks.
Re crude oil's contribution to the sinking of Shokaku, I think I read the same book the questioner did. That factoid was memorable to me because I knew generally lighter products like kerosene and petrol combust more easily than heavier ones such as crude. I dug into it.
It's a yes and no. Crude oil varies greatly in its constituency and some crude oil only ignites with great difficulty while other crude oils are practically a bomb waiting to go off. The variability has to do with the depth of the formation of the final crude oil deposit. The deeper you go the lighter the hydrocarbons and as such the more flammable it is. The shallower the deposit the more polymerised it is and the more difficult it is to burn. Crude oil literally varies from being mostly gas or propane to being so full of tar that it has to be diluted with naphtha just to pump it along. Some crude oil is as much as 10% iron oxide while other crude oils are so pure material they are clear like water.
Because Japanese ships were using East Indies crude, I think we can deduce either it was a lighter variety or, if tar like, the Japanese may have added naphtha to it. There were seven oil refineries in the East Indies in various states of operation so they may have been able to pull this off.
Light crude oil has an API gravity higher than 31.1°. I checked the API and sulphur content of _current_ Indonesian crude grades - could not find info for that of the 1930s. They range from 21.5° to 51°, and the majority of its crude is above 31.1°; 51° is equal to Saudi's Arabia's Arab Super Light. The world's lightest is 55°. All Indonesian oil grades are very low in sulphur.
Bunker oil comes in A, B, and C grades and six numbered sub-grades. Bunker is not crude oil, but a residual after the higher quality products like kerosene and gasoline are removed from the crude. C is the lowest grade of residual, unless you count bitumen (asphalt). Bunker B No. 5 is also known as navy. Searching both Japanese and English resources online I cannot find what grade of bunker the IJN used, but will assume B No. 5.
If I understand this correctly, high-quality light crude is more easily combustible than bunker. Steam turbines will pretty much run on anything that burns, but unrefined fuels are much more prone to explode if improperly ignited, as the lighter elements removed by the refining process are the most volatile portion of the fuel mixture.
Certainly aviation gasoline was more combustible.
463,000 views and 10,000 likes. Help this cat out guys. He's putting in a lot of work.
So glad for a new lenghty Dry Dock. Love your content. Thank you for your efforts.
I love these Drydocks.
wrt the question about the TBD. The aviation museum in Kalamazoo, MI, which has gained a good reputation for restoring WWII Navy aircraft salvaged from Lake Michigan, is involved with a project to attempt salvage of several of the TBDs in the debris field around Lexington. Another target of the mission is salvage of an F4F in that debris field that was flow by both Thach and O'Hare. When I last talked with anyone from that museum's resto shop, last winter, the expedition was scheduled to set sail for the Coral Sea in May. I will probably make my annual visit to the museum this fall, so will inquire about any progress made.
That's awesome! I remember seeing the photos of those preserved Devastators and Wildcats (relatively recent IIRC), it would be super cool if they could manage to salvage some of them. Both getting them up to the surface without further damage, and quickly protecting them from the rapid onset of rust from being exposed to the air (however you do that).
The Air Zoo does fantastic work. For anyone interested, they have an entire restoration building open to the public where you can see them working on the aircraft. Plus they have some rare planes in there. Good to see the Air Zoo getting some love!
On the point of supercarriers. I had always thought the primary consideration was the potential airgroup capacity and it's ability to operate them. hence things like displacement, type of deck, catapults, ect were secondary, as they are what expands or restrict those capabilities. So essentially angled flight decks and high pressure steam catapults are not, in themselves, markers of a super carrier, they expand the capabilities of aircraft for more sorties by being able to run operations simultaneously and continually, so it's kinda needed for a super carrier.
Kind of like the arguments of what heavy fighter is and some people thinking it's the size or weight that makes it a "heavy" fighter, when the military considers a heavy fighter to be a heavy fighter because of it's overall firepower. The size and weight is just a by product of carrying that increasing firepower creep. As newer aircraft are brought out, the "heavy" aircraft now becomes a medium fighter, then later light fighter, as the firepower creep keeps increasing with every generation.
So, say, in comparison, you could build a ski jump carrier to the same displacement as a flat top catapult carrier like the Gerald Ford's, with the same size airgroup and an angle landing deck, but it's still not a super carrier because super , like heavy for planes and tanks, is based on firepower, and a ski jump carrier, has less firepower, and slower cycle time of that firepower. ski jump carriers vs a flat top with 4 catapults is severally gimped in the fact you can only launch 2 vs 4, and the fact you need lighter aircraft carrying smaller payloads. Your total firepower you can actually project and keep cycled is reduced.
A note on the US armor scheme being superior at medium and long ranges. THat reflects US doctrine which was to fight at long range - even extreme range (over the horizon with aircraft spotting). In turn, that reflected the USN's belief the next war would be in the Pacific under conditions of good to excellent visibility
The two-month transit time of the U-boats to Argentina is actually pretty reasonable. You have to remember that getting all the way down to Argentina is a really long way. They had to slow steam to conserve fuel so that they would have the range to make it. So the speeds they were making were more on par with warships from the age of sail than anything else. We’re talking speeds around 7-8 knots, plus more time for every time they dived to avoid a plane or ship. The simple truth is that the ocean is really big and (with the exception of 977’s well documented break at the islands, there wasn’t anything else that they could have done on the journey that would have let them still get to Argentina when they did without running out of fuel.
And another thing about plankings is they could be put through a planer which would make the piece smaller but take off the part of the wood that has weathered. Leaving a rather sturdy result that could be used for the siding of a house or if still thick enough be used for the underlying roofing of a house. Good pieces of wood, especially hard wood that is not rotten can be used for a vast amount of things. Furniture, housing construction, etc... My step-dad, Billy worked for a couple of years at a place that built furniture, & a lot of what they built they made from whiskey barrels. We even had a whiskey barrel bar that he built. But there was numerous ways of repurposing whiskey barrels into other things. Billy was really good at doing upholstery and adding like colorful brass tacks all the way around for ornamentation. He really did beautiful work. We had a VW Bug that had caught fire. He re-upholstered the seats and they were better than brand new. And I say better than cuz he added extra cushion to the seats that hadn't been there when new! He grew up doing upholstery in his Mom's shop.
I'll never forget the night the VW caught fire. We were night fishing at a carp & carfish lake.It was kinda my fault but not. I had been the last one to go into the car. The battery was underneath the back seat. And the plastic caps that covered the battery terminals had gotten knocked around. The metal part of the back seat arched against the battery & caught the underneath part of the back seat on fire. Someone drove past & said "Hey, ya'lls VW sure is smoking a lot!" And when we looked over there was black smoke billowing out the passenger window. When we opened the door the whole inside erupted in flames & we spent the next 15 minutes running back & forth with buckets & coolers throwing water in it. Somebody said, "Ya'll best get away from it before it blows up!" And Billy said "I just spent $2,000 on rebuilding the motor in this thing, if it's going to blow up, it's gonna do it with me pouring water on it!" It didn't blow up. Actually there was very little damage. He had to do a little bit of rewiring & re-upholster the seats. And it was good to go.
And anything too rotten to sell or use could be burned for heat inside or outside.
Speaking of Age of Sail songs, my personal favorite is "Barrett's Privateers" by Stan Rogers. It's a hell of a story about serving during the Revolutionary War.
*_Our cracked four-pounders_*
*_made an awful din_*
*_but with on one fat ball_*
*_the Yank stove us in_*
*_God damn them all_*
*_we were told_*
*_We'd cruise the seas_*
*_for American gold_*
*_We'd fire no guns_*
*_shed no tears_*
*_Now I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier_*
*_The last of Barrett's privateers_*
Look it up, it's well worth the listen. 😰
The Alestorm cover is prety good
Stan rogers has such good renditions of songs... makes me want to feel the ocean again. I live in south germany. No ocean in sight. Now I'm sad god dammit
Stan drank too much and hated women but some of his songs will make you cry........
@@wintaylor6441 How long did you know him?
I quoted you at me local yatch club and i was laughed at all the way out! Even the valet boy snickered when he handed me the keys to me bentley. You sir have made a fool of me and the house of Shaftshire!
Regarding scuttling -- if you force an enemy to scuttle a ship, that sinking is yours. Scuttling your own ship is plain admission of enemy victory. The Bris sank the Bismarck, the Japanese sank Lexington, and so on. The rest is mythmaking.
I liken it to; if someone throws you off a 50 story building, but, as you fall passed the 5th floor you pull out a gun and shot yourself: then technically the fall didn't kill you... but... it was going to.
@@Shadooe The fall never kills you, its the sudden deacceleration at the bottom that does.
My favourite reply to the Hood armour rubbish is "Was HMS Warspite under-armoured?"
Fair, but then I'd ask: would you want to send HMS Warspite up against Bismarck? (invincible plot armor notwithstanding, of course)
@@Wolfeson28 Not especially, but more because her low speed would allow Bismarck to completely control the engagement, including simply staying out of reach.
The this seems like a regular episode but it’s going down as one of the best. The sheer information.
For those who want to know, the song Devil's Reach is by the Jolly Rogers, definitely worth a listen if you are into sea shanties
As for the world’s strongest navy, I’d say Royal Navy up to about 1940-ish, and the US Navy from 1943-ish, but possibly the Imperial Japanese Navy for about 18-24 months ending in May 1942. After the RN takes losses in 1939-41 and USN losses at Pearl Harbor, I believe the IJN was the strongest navy for that brief period. Their carriers, air groups, battleships/battle cruisers and the long lance. Pretty hard to beat.
remember the Japanese faced a segment of the RN, USN, while the RN, USN faced the totality of the IJN . so the IJN might have been the strongest navy at some point in that theatre, but not on a global scale. The IJN was never a Global Navy, the RN , and USN were, so no I don't think based on that the IJN was ever the most powerful navy, as it couldn't even project power outside its region.
I think that 1 reason automatically disqualifies it, as it had no presence in the Atlantic of any note the Arctic Circle, or the Med, nor could it have the need justified
1:18:00 Say what you will about multiple-deck carriers IRL, they did manage to look cool in Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers. Absurd, but cool. :)
Yeah, they were were badass. Always loved the Battle at the Rainbow Star Cluster episode.
Scrapping four R-Class to get two G3s sounds not unreasonable.
Your attitude concerning the BISMARCK sloped-deck armor idea is very similar to mine. "All or nothing" lower hull protection from above-the-waterline side hits, but sacrificing an entire deck of upper hull to do it, which makes post-battle survival, if heavy hull damage occurs, much less likely in BISMARCK.
My alternate idea, that the hit that killed HOOD is at the lower part of the 7" upper belt and through that and the sloped 2" HT fragment-protection deck into the aft engine room, is otherwise identical to yours. This was found in the actual 15" Mark 5 APC shell tests of HOOD's design and fixed over the magazines by a 3" horizontal HT deck -plate in the gap in front of the 2" sloped HT deck plate, but never fixed due to weight considerations over the power plant spaces. If the HOOD was angled towards the BISMARCK when hit, the 15" shell from BISMARCK would go aft and either explode near the thin vertical HT bulkhead between that space and the magazines or pass into the aft 4" magazines first, just like your scenario. In either case, good chance of KABOOM. My hit has much more chance due to a larger "keyhole" hit region to cause the damage. We'll never know, though...
Regarding the question on escort carrier operations at 24:57; the RUclips channel "US Bombers" has been running an excellent series on US bombers versus the German U-Boats. He quotes quite a bit of primary source material in the series. Although the main effort of the series is the use of the B24 Liberator against submarines, there is a lot of material that spills over. He covers development and use of sonobouys, FIDO torpedos, and depth bombs, much of which were also carried by Avengers and Catalinas. IMHO, it's definitely worth looking at if you have any interest in aircraft versus submarine operations!
Yes, for example, the IJN cargo submarine I-52 was sunk in June 44 by Avengers from USS Bogue, who used sonobuoys to drop a Fido on it.
Many ships were scuttled because the damage was so severe that is was better to abandon the ship and have it sink than to risk more crew casualties trying to save the ship. All navies scuttled ships, what is important is not whether ship X was scuttled but that ship X was so badly damaged she was in sinking condition by the enemy.
And then there's _USS Hornet,_ who simply refused to go down.
The Japanese did find her, but they were unable to exploit it and decided to sink her themselves. I believe two of their destroyers put mount's worth apiece into her before she grudgingly went down.
@@mbryson2899keep in mind that Hornet’s sisters are Yorktown. A ship that was claimed sunk multiple times and took a lot of damage to finally go down. As well as Enterprise who was a floating wreck at one point during the Guadalcanal Campaign and when she lost her forward elevator in 1945 kept at speed and in formation with the rest of TF58. Despite being on fire and flooding due to broken water mains.
@@ph89787 Understood. The _USS Yorktown_ was under tow (by the _Vireo,_ if memory serves) when _I-168_ stuck one of two torpedos into her, writing her epitaph. Absent that she would have been repaired.
That class was all-caps TOUGH, no doubt about it. _USS Enterprise_ and _IJN Shokaku_ both absorbed amazingly large amoumts of damage compared to their peers.
I would think that ‘supercarrier’ is a relative term that should be used for ships that are step changes in size/capability from the previous generation, but which gets superseded in turn when the next big one comes along.
But the whole concept is pretty silly. Nobody ever built ‘superdestroyers’, even when (say) the big French destroyers were so much bigger than their contemporaries.
Superdreadnought is a pretty well accepted term.
Super Destroyers were protected cruisers…
Look up Southern Live Oak and you can see how they get the curved shape in the wood grain. Another way is to dig up the stump. The stump curves out as it hits the ground and continues below ground a few feet giving you curved grain.
Saving at least one of each aircraft type for a museum doesn’t seem to have been considered at the end of WW2. Witness the total lack of a B-32 at the USAF museum because they were all scrapped. The last aircraft to suffer a casualty in August 1945 and a unique one at that - gone.
I figure at the time people were so fatigued by years of war that preserving military equipment was the last thing on their minds
Consider these soldiers saw all these assets as expendable. That combat life of an asset was expected to be short. They were disposable tools to an end. The minute the war ended they had no more value than a candy wrapper.
That line of thinking would change, and now we weep. 😢
Respectfully
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@0:25:00ish (CVE's) The US Depth Bomb was set to explode near the surface since the amount of time you could "accurately" target a diving submarine was very limited since the sub was not only going deeper (Fast!) but could also be making a turn to port or starboard. These bombs weren't all that big when you compare them to what a surface ship carried.
The US 3 inch HVAR (High Velocity Aircraft Rocket) actually had No Explosive! It had a high grade steel nose designed to punch through a sub's hull.. Since the sub would be diving it was felt that a direct hit anywhere on the hull should sink it.
Then you have the Mark 24 "mine" aka FIIDO! (Both from my own personal research over the years and "US Bombers" series where among other things they do include the ASW patrols
The US standard battleships could travel farther than Monitors and carry a load of AA guns. For own and group protection
And, they would be able to fight off ships larger then small light cruisers. For that matter, a 4 ship group of them could see off pretty much any BB squadron other then a group of say, all 4 Iowa's.
Drach, I am going to have to disagree with you on the comparison of defenses of Wake vs Midway. Taking USN, AAF, and USMC air out of the equations (and those were huge discrepancies) , Wake had the 1st Marine defense battalion at one third strength (15 officers and 373 enlisted). A couple of their batteries could not be manned for lack of personnel. Midway had the full 6th Defense Battalion (38 officers and 939 men peacetime numbers) plus the 2nd Raider Battalion (Carlson's Raiders), which would have been a few hundred troops. And Midway had five light tanks and a squadron of PT boats. From what I've read, the Midway defenses were pretty much complete while Wake's where still under construction. And that doesn't include a functioning RADAR, which Midway had.
Only 2 companies of raiders not the whole bn.
@@craigplatel813 That's the few hundred troops.
@@timschoenberger242 raider company was 133 total by T/O. The companies weren't at full strength., When sent to Midway. Soore like 200 rather than a few hundred
@@craigplatel813 Thanks, Craig. That's about what I figured. I used the numbers I had heard about for the Makin Island raid as a basis. Do you know if James Roosevelt was at Midway? I have never read that he was there.
Commencement Bay class were CVE's because of a matter of speed. Their air group 34 aircraft. and their top speed was 19 knots. The Independence class CVL's had 45 aircraft, but could do 32 knots. 100,000 shaft horse power versus 16,000 makes a difference
HMS Manxman was a movie star. She played the part of a German raider, Essen, in “Sailor of the King” aka “Single-Handed”. HMS Cleopatra played two parts, HMS Amesbury (sunk by Essen) and HMS Stratford. HMS Glasgow was shown in long shots and her triple 6” guns were used in close-ups to depict the Essen firing.
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Two things about carrier flight deck operations. Not sure about the RN, but US WW2 carriers (including the CVE's provided to the RN) used hydraulic catapults. The USN used gunpowder catapults on battleships and cruisers. Second, in the USN, the biggest change over time was the putting of landing and launch under the control of the Landing Signal Officer, not the pilot's judgement.
2:43:50 And yeeted the forward superfiring pair of 6 inch turrets, kept the barbettes and slapped a 4.5 inch BD mount on it. Which contradicts RN placement of the 4.5 inch BD mounts and makes absolutely no sense. Not to mention that she is clearly in her final design judging by the structure and mast layouts and the existence of the stern lip. Yet for some reason reason, she only gets the 16.5” gun that wasn’t even in the final design instead of pulling a Lion and making the 16” be the stock guns and have the 16.5” be an upgrade. G3 was designed with 16.5” and 16” in mind and makes sense to have options for both, unlike Lion, who not one of their myriad of designs almost a decade featured anything other than 16”, 15”, and 14” for the main batteries.
2:47:00 I agree for the most part but I think they would retain their 16” armament (the 16.5” was dropped after the preliminary design) and more importantly they would have kept the forward superfiring 6” turret instead of replacing it with a 4.5" BD mount. I think realistically it would be more like Naval Creed's modernization (although they didn’t give her her correct stern) which is 6x2 4.5” and 8x2 6”.
Hey Drach, I was reading the wikipedia article on HMS Roebuck and it says that while she was classified as a fifth rate, the Royal Navy did not consider her a frigate but rather something more like a mini ship of the line (which then makes the beating that Bonhomme Richard received while fighting Roebuck's half sister HMS Serapis even more impressive). Could you please elaborate more on this distinction, and are there any other examples of ships in the age of sail that did not fit cleanly in a frigate or ship of the line category?
Ðþ
👃 🐽 🤥 🤧 🎉😅
Thanks for answering my question! One small correction, though: at 2:54:15, it wasn't a pair of Towns; HMS Jamaica was a Crown Colony. 🙂 One incident I do recall about Burnett: When the Sheffield came upon two German destroyers in the Barents Sea engagement and opened fire on them and bore down on one, the Friedrich Eckholdt, Burnett growled to the Sheffield's captain, "Ram the blighter, nobby." However, quick firing salvoes of 6-inch shells were enough and the poor destroyer broke in two from the barrage.
Admiral Kincaid at Pearl Harbor: "Oh we had a little problem here".
It’s Kimmel
Regarding Nagumo after Midway, I think the whole issue of "we can't sack anyone important because we can't admit we were defeated badly enough to warrant it" was the primary factor. Keep in mind that Midway was being presented to the Japanese public as another great victory, and the Navy was directly trying to conceal the extent of their losses from the IJA (including Tojo). While the name of Nagumo's command changed, it still constituted the IJN's primary carrier striking arm and included all their their remaining large fleet carriers - there just weren't nearly as many of them anymore. So Nagumo still held essentially the same command as far as its role in the fleet, and was still the primary carrier fleet commander for the next two major carrier battles (Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz). He was only relieved of that command after Santa Cruz, by which point the air groups had been so devastated that the carrier force clearly wasn't going to be doing much for a while.
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LpkpK
o😮
Joy
44:01 _With_ a ramp, and _without_ a catapult, I don't think QE gets to claim super-carrier status, no matter how big she is. (This is not a jingoistic statement.)
Airgroup would matter more than Catapults. Airgroup can be argued in.
The whole term supercarrier is really rather meaningless and made up in the first place.
@@WALTERBROADDUS the term is _subjective,_ of course, but certainly has meaning.
@@RonJohn63 it's just a really big aircraft carrier.
@@WALTERBROADDUS your head would explode at what was called integrated circuit Very Large Scale Integration 40 years ago.
Re the 1st question? Were age of sail ships as easily identified by their sail rigs as has been seen in film and fiction?
Age of sail they would identify by the sail plan, number of masts etc.
Brig , Sloop, Snow etc.
If you waited until they were Hull up, it could be too late.
In correspondence they were particular about weight of broadside.
I'm talking English navy, other nations may have judged different.
Makes sense
1:43 Yes can see them missing their cannon going of, more so if you also take damage. Now using an ramming rod and before that the cleaning tools it would be very smart to paint an ring or better have an disc showing how far it should go in and as its multiple steps to load, cleaning then ramming its an good chance some would spot it.
Regarding the mark 14 & 15 torpedo question. Wasn’t the mark 15 used on PT boats? Which would have presented a bigger problem with PT boat attack on convoys like the Tokyo Express.
PT boats were equipped primarily with Mk 8 torpedoes and Mk 10 torpedoes (the predecessors of the Mk 14 Mk 15, respectively) in the early war. And these had a variety of their own issues including too small of a warhead to reliably kill much and tubes catching fire during launch.
Later on they started being equipped with Mk 13 torpedoes (the air-dropped torpedo). If you see images of a torpedo just rolling off a rack at the edge of the boat, it would be a Mk 13.
Hearing the talk of the replacement for the standards with the more modern ships with the phrase "The five Montanas," involved made me giggle.
@ 0:52:29 "Private SNAFU" (Situation Normal All "Fouled" Up) and the US Navy's & Marine's "McGuilicuty" (pretty certain I spelled that one wrong) are a bunch of training films that insert humor and sometimes somewhat adult humor into the Training Films just to keep the audience paying attention. Please remember these were done in the early to mid 1940's so some of the humor and depictions are not considered "politically correct" now....
Some WWII vintage training films , possibily including animated works, *might* be found on a YT channel with a name for the mechanism that submarines use to see above the surface while submerged.
@@spikespa5208 There are quite a few channels with training films from a wide variety of eras out there, but that one is acut above most that I've seen.
Stop That Tank! is a Disney film about the Boys anti-tank rifle and a mix between propaganda and training films.
It is actually a pretty fun little film.
Kinda weird to put Mogami in the battle-carrier group when she was supposed to fulfill the same role as the Tones, recon.
52:30 There is an excellent exhibit on Walt Disney cartoons demonstrating training and propaganda. It is showing now at the National World War II Museum in New Orleans.
Think of all the wars we could of avoided if the YF-23 was chosen.
Selection of the yf-23 preventing Wars? That's pretty far-fetched.
2:14:14
If anyone finds this perplexing, don't. There were 706 P-61 Black Widows produced during the war. It saw extensive post-war service, including civilian service. Do you know how many P-61s are still surviving today out of those 706?
...4. Just. Four.
To be fair, not sure that the Italian army even did that badly on a unit per unit basis in the North African campaign; they weren't successful, but it was a very difficult supply situation and by some measures outperformed the Germans, but the Germans just wanted to blame them for defeat.
2:46:12 😊😅😮😢😢🎉🎉😂😂❤
1:42:31 There were infantry weapons recovered from, IIRC, the Gettysburg battlefield with six separate charges in the barrel, one on top of another. The supposition -- given that these were virtually always recovered from among the dead, so their wielders wouldn't be available for comment -- is that, in the chaos and distraction of a battlefield, the soldiers got confused about whether they'd reloaded, and went through the motions again. Given the similar situation that can occur on the gun deck of a ship, particularly if a gun crew gets called away to deal with a more urgent problem -- helping right a dismounted gun, putting out a fire, etc. -- and might not remember where they were in the evolution, especially if the gun captain got replaced, perhaps due to injury.
The explanation I've read for the Gettysburg case is that the soldiers probably just forgot to replace the percussion cap after each shot, and failed to notice the lack of recoil when they pulled the trigger.
One of my favorite books on the Navel War relating the AWI
Struggle for Sea Power
A Naval History of the American Revolution
By: Sam Willis
I read somewhere tha oak trees felled for use in shipbuilding was usually 200 years old it grows by about 1 inch circumstances a year so that gives a diameter of about 5 ft less bark
THX DRACH!
Regarding 01:45:22 (Would a 4.7" DP gun fit the same BD mount as the 4.5"?) in 1947 Argentina negotiated several designs with United Kingdom (Aircraft Carriers, Cruisers and Destroyers) with armed with Mark IX* 4.7" DP guns. One of the proposed mounts was the double barrel british Mark XX (as the L class destroyers), others was similar to the double barrel spanish Mark F AA (as the Canarias and Mendez Nuñez cruisers).
With complete hindsight of WWII, what would have been the best ship choices for the RAN in the period immediately following the treaties and the need to scuttle HMAS Australia? Would/could the RAN have been able to operate a carrier in the late 1930s, or would you have gone with more Crown Colony/Dido class cruisers in lieu of the Counties and Modified Leanders?
If the RAN had a carrier I'm pretty sure the Japanese would have sunk it in short order if they actually used it in combat.
@@kazansky22 just like their success in sinking US and British carriers? No RN armour deck carriers were lost during the war.
Why did some 4 propeller equipped ships have different blade configurations ? IE: a combination of 4 blades on outer shaft and 5 blade on inners?
Didn't USS Shaw (DD-373) surivie a magazine explosion at Pearl Harbour.
Survived or resurrected? Shaw was a peice of equipment that could be repaired vs replaced. Time and effort count in 1942.
Yes, I was going to point that out! She was in drydock at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked.
Her forward magazine blew up, literally blowing her bow off, and sinking the floating drydock, but the rest of the destroyer remained afloat. A temporary bow was built and she sailed under her own power to the Mare Island navy yard.
@frankbarnwell____
She remained afloat, with her machinery spaces intact, so she definitely survived.
@@mahbriggs I know. Through the war. But decisions...
🎉😪😴😪
Those two Italian battleships in the late 1870s that used the British "100-Ton Gun" also used the first non-wrought-iron ship armor, the new French Schneider et Cie. mild steel armor (very brittle due to difficulties in toughening steel back then), which could STOP the shells from the big guns; the first time that was true for ship armor. It took the British to invent laminated steel-faced iron "Compound Armor" to try to match it, with spotty success. So those Italian ships were new in several ways.
Where would you put the Queen Anne's Mansion on the Duncan? I'm just looking at it with an eye to upgrade the electronics and fire control.
30:00 what is that close ship in that picture? I lt looks like the turret is off center
Some british WWI Monitors seen in the picture.
37:06 Sudden urge to play some more Hardspace: Shipbreaker
In the movie Zero Hour, the CVN Nimitz battle group is shifted to the attack on Perl Harbour.
How would you expect the crew of a Brittish Royal Navy fleet in 1812 to react and try to describe an encounter with, say, the USS New Jersey and her escort group on their way back to the US after Desert Storm.
Presuming the US battlegroup is flying their colours but otherwise no agressive or evasive manouvering other than to follow modern maritime conventions on placement when passing sailing ships on the open sea.
I imagine they'd be spending their time finishing the ships' rum supplies as quickly as possible, leading to rather questionable descriptions of the event. Maybe a few of them find religion and track down the ship's chaplain to pray the visions away. The most optimistic ones might be frantically taking notes and making sketches for whatever good that does them.
One assumes the US commanders have enough genre savvy to realize that there are probably some of their sailors' ancestors on the RN ships and forego simply annihilating them in passing. Most likely they'd simply avoid contact as much as possible if they were sure they'd been displaced in time, although where they go from there without wrecking the continuum is beyond me. If the time cops haven't already shown up for a slip that big then they probably don't have jurisdiction, so maybe assume you've gone sideways and what you do to the parallel you're in has no temporal consequences. At that point you can go wild, I guess.
Does the battlegroup have the assets and tradeable knowledge to end US slavery a half century early? Or make the government honor their treaties with the Native Americans and stop with the de facto attempted genocide? And how about jumpstarting universal suffrage? I bet it does, even with no prospect of resupply. Just "little" things like knowing how to teach people to manufacture the simpler antibiotics ~133 years before penicillin went on the market IRL earns a lot of cred for any other "suggestions" you might make. Just watch out for the Malthusian nightmare you might spawn. Reductions in mortality rates can snowball fast, you'll probably derail the World Wars under a de facto Pax America, and a 2023 where the global population is an order of magnitude larger would be real bad.
@@richmcgee434 universal suffrage has not had the best effect starting with prohibition and spawning the mafia. And I don't think the government ever keeps promises let alone to the native Americans and could the government even stop natural population pressure.
Wow. You people really think about these "what if" scenarios WAY TOO MUCH! I mean, they might be fun for a movie but come on, we still are living in the real world & our history is still our history, & nothing we can do to change that history. But we can learn from it, & not make the same mistakes.
@@kennethdeanmiller7324 Sorry Mr. Conversation Police Sir!
This is the 21st century! Have patrions use the telegraph!
I would think the Japanese may have been a little thin on the ground (water) at the Wake Island attack because of the resource demands of the other attacks going on in other areas at the time that had been concluded by the time of Midway.
At 1:35 Could the 47th gun been mounted on the centerline on a swivel, similar to warships in the 1860s? In the war of 1812 some small privateers would carry one large gun in that manner, since it was larger than they could normally carry.
At 1:42 double loading; In the US Civil war (I think) during the panic of the battle line one soldier had put five (or more, don't remember offhand) in his rifle but didn't fire it.
At 2:00; I wonder if the mark 15 had the same depth sensor location that caused depth keeping problems. There was one proved MK15 warhead malfunction. After action against USN DDs the IJN Sigure had steering problems when the rudder was checked in port there was a torpedo sized hole in it. A hit but no bang.
At 2:14, Over ten years ago a TBD was found by divers in relatively shallow water. (Caribbean?) But salvage law requires the Navy to release it's claim on the plane. When asked the Navy refused permission. They were fought in court and told the Navy they would recover the aircraft, restore it and donate it to the US Navy Aircraft Museum. The Navy still refused. After all the time was wasted in court the salvors decided that the wreck had deteriorated beyond saving and dropped the whole thing.
Why the fuck does this keep popping on when I wake up at 3 am?
If you had to talk about watergate would you defer to oceangate as a way to tell us a story about a doomed submarine? Some gotta ask. Can you tell us a couple stories about early diving?
14:17 Gorgeous and splendid
I remember listening to an answer about the Jolly Rogers's song the Devil's Reach in this Drydock, but I can't find the timestamp.
Answered my own question 1:35:53. It does have a timestamp.
USN BB replacement plan
Arkansas - North Carolina
Texas - Washington
New York - South Dakota (both were fitted as flagships)
Nevada - Indiana
Oklahoma - Massachusetts
Arizona - Alabama
Pennsylvania - Iowa (both were fitted as flagships)
New Mexico - New Jersey
Mississippi - Missouri
Idaho - Wisconsin
Tennesse - Montana
California - Ohio
Colorado - Maine
Maryland - New Hampshire
West Virginia - Louisiana
Kentucky and Illinois were inserted into the program by Congress after it was realized that the Treaty system had collapsed and there were liable to be delays with the Montanas
Please drach. Talk about music on ships and jazz bands like Glenn miller. Was it frequent for the men to ad hoc figure and jam or we’re there actually naval procedure?*
What are ships bands and were they common besides having officers with cellos in their private quarters? Musicians mate and bugler seem all good but can you talk about Benny Goodman and the ships bands role in regular morale keeping?
If the uss New Jersey shot it’s Band out of its 16” guns from her spot on the Camden waterfront would they being fifty caliber land them short of Philadelphia… ??
Agree that the term "super carrier" is not well defined. Generally it refers to capabilities, not just size. Op tempo, air group size, air group capabilities, range of ships, sensor package, comms package, etc.
1:41:26 "5 of them to one of us, we've got them outnumbered!"
Naval version of Chesty Puller? :P
I don’t think I fully agree with your argument about the super carriers. Yes Midway may have been considered a super carrier for its time at the end of the 40’s and the 50’s. but what is considered a “super carrier” has clearly changed as much larger ships have come into existence. It would just be hard to justify calling QE a “Super Carrier” today when the GRF class displaces about 35k tons more which is roughly half the QE more in displacement. Also I don’t know if it’s necessarily a “requirement “ for a Super Carrier to be nuclear powered today but I think that could be argued.
@@jackgee3200 I think size is generally what originally gave the “super carrier“ that title. A midway carrier in 1947 with 65k ton displacement must of seemed like a giant compared to the Essex class that was being pumped out just recently before at about half the displacement (33k). And whether you have STOL capable aircraft on the deck I don’t really see as being anything to do with classifying the carrier. They are putting STOL aircraft like the F35c on what was originally supposed to be Helicopter/Light Carriers before.
I was just suggesting that being nuclear powered could be another possible requirement to consider a carrier “Super” because of the enormous added capability that it adds to the ship but size overall has been the main factor in determining how one classifies it as being super or not for the time period your in. I would consider Chinas new Carrier a Super Carrier I believe it’s like 80 tons or something around there although I believe it’s conventionally powered they are working on an even larger potentially nuclear powered ship that would be more in line with the U.S’s ships. But I agree that QE is a very capable ship that the majority of the worlds oceanic powers should be jealous of and the U.K can and should be proud of as a flagship.
I was under the impression & had assumed The Royal Navy was THE most powerful Navy up until the massive war ship building in the USA during WW2 eclipsed the size of the Royal Navy & one, since the USA had become the UK's Ally during the war & two because of WW2 the UK vastly shrunk in it's world wide holdings so it no longer needed such a large Navy to protect the holdings that remained. And that by Wars end the British & the USA were trying to reduce their Navy's in general but still remain large enough to be the two most powerful Navy's in the world so as to be a deterant against any communistic take overs. But as an American, I really don't see "the standard battleships" standing long against the Royal Navy battleships. But by the end of WW2 with the North Carolinas, South Dakota's, Iowa's & the major swarm of the Essex's by 1943 or 44 the USA had definitely eclipsed the Royal Navy by a significant margin. But with our continued interests in world around us being close to the same we had little to no chance at going to war against each other.
And as far as Nazi's ending up in Argentina? Hey, if you were a high ranking Nazi & had information about a large amount of gold. Loading it on a U-boat & getting out of Germany before it falls would be a very tempting idea!!! Never underestimate the power of greed & fear linked together to make people do stranger things than making for Argentina. Hell, depending upon where they rocked up, if they had gold bars, I'm sure they could have bribed there way into the US even.
1:30:28 The USS Midway was initially designed as a battleship. They adapted the hull to be an aircraft carrier, and actually the Midway class suffered stability issues for their entire lives as a result. Pilots today still speak of the disconcerting 'corkscrewing' the Midway and Coral Sea would sometimes do as they attempted to land. This was an artifact of their hulls being designed as battleships.
I don't think you got that right. She originated as a study for an armoured carrier, which in order to fit a sufficiently large airwing, became a very large carrier. The engineer space was however subdivided based on the design of the Montana class battleship.
Saratoga was the last US conversion from a capital ship, although several escort carriers where rebuilds of commercial ships or based on light cruiser hulls (but newbuilds if I remember correctly).
@@Tuning3434light carriers of the independence class were conversions if Cleveland class light cruiser hulls. They had the speed to keep up with the Essex class.
@@Tuning3434During Midway's last deployment during the First Gulf War, it was more maneuverable in the Persian Gulf than other newer carriers. This was because its hull and rudders (and machinery) were based on the unbuilt Montana Class battleships.
(Reversely(?), the hulls and machinery of the Alaska Class "very heavy" cruisers were identical to the Essex class carriers.)
Re the double loading of guns, it would seem to me that the person using the ramrod would notice it only went in part way. I'm assuming that the era when it was a more common problem was before hand ramming ended.
Terrifying flight. Pilot and bombardier deserve declaration.
Japanese lesson learned at Wake Island - FAAFO! 🇺🇸
“Supercarrier” is like “pocket battleship”. It sounds great in newspapers, and seems more impressive, but really isn’t an accurate description when you start to dig into it
Even bigger fleet carrier doesnt sound half as cool.
"Super" means a ship is too big to fit through the Panama Canal.
It's a size designation.
While Forestall Class Carriers could fit through the canal , they could only do so if they were almost fully unloaded
(No aircraft and very little fuel).
@@glennchartrand5411 Is it though. It has its origin in superdreadnaught, 14" armed 2nd generation dreadnaught battleships. It is really just a way of saying bigger and badder.
@@egoalter1276 Super is just a size designation.
Like "Supertanker"
Any ship called "super" is just a ship too big to fit through the original Panama canal.
Up until the Forestall class , all American Carriers were required by Congress to be able to use the Panama Canal.
The Forestall class could technically fit through if they were fully unloaded of planes and jet fuel....and you took down all the light poles along the locks.
Pop culture seized on the term "Super Carrier" without understanding what it really means.
The Navy needed larger ships to handle the new jet aircraft so Congress authorized the construction of "Super-sized" Aircraft carriers that couldn't fit through the canal no matter what steps you took first.
@@glennchartrand5411 Yes, I understand that, but the designation 'super' specifically in the case of warships predates that.
I -am having to rewrite this question since I had a browser crash that lost this while I was typing it the first time... at about the 45 minute mark you mention the tons, and it hit me that we have a few different kinds of Tons on the planet currently, how did it work in WWII when allies were discussing tons, and was there "local" tons used to try to squeeze more out of treaties or to even exaggerate how large a vessel was to try to INTIMIDATE Foes...? Which Ton do you have to convert to on this channel, or is there some confusion on the subject? We have the Short ton *US) we have Long Ton British, we have Metric Tonnes, and I think we have or Had some sort of Short-weight/Long-Weight Tons, and Deadweight tons, and AT Tons and I think something about -a Dry ton not sure if some of this is just same measurement from different areas or whatnot. Hell I swear I have heard of a TOE Ton which has to be from sci-fi right? And of course we have all the Slang uses even in history about costing a ton or 2 tons.... So many tons.
Ship tonnage was original derived from the number of barrels they could carry as cargo, nothing to do with weight.
Treaties generally defined how you computed tonnage, and presumably also which kind of tonne. With so many different measures of tonnage (I think cargo weight in some cases for civilian vessels, at least two measures of displacement for naval vessels, etc) they had to spell it out. Famously the UK got everyone to agree that our water tanks were measured empty, so we got much of our long range cruising water supplies outside of tonnage limits. They mysteriously turned out to look oddly similar to water filled torpedo bulges.
In general the different units used in different countries were known, if only because of commerce. The first time an American merchant sold X number of US gallons of whisky to a British merchant, the different units would be obvious.
I’m not sure how it was dealt with when allies cooperated. I’ve seen technical discussions and specifications that went back and forth, but I only recall scientific units (and an ohm or whatever is standardised world wide) or were length, which were shared by the countries in question, as I was looking at WW2 UK/US stuff. Nowadays NATO has STANAGs, which agree clearly how things will be done, to allow interoperability.
Forrestal is a super carrier; QE2 is a super carrier… it’s the capability that qualifies them (size matters as well). They have a much higher operational tempo than other countries’ ships. Whether it’s a Nimitz or a QE2 showing up off your coast, you’re still sh**ting bricks!
QEii just evokes laughter…
Did the British also have bands on ships like the Americans had? What we’re the role of ships musicians and what other roles did they perform?
Can you explain the drums on the ships that had bands? How frequently did ships have bands of musicians or was it very common on capital ships and aircraft carriers? I’m sure even submariners had them as well within the channels scope. When did this begin or was it just shanty and singing for the sailors?
My understanding is that one or a few musicians was more common than a band. The bugle and the drum were both common as military signalling/comms, to relay orders on land. I have a strong recollection of drums being used on ships, but I’m not sure where from. Boatswains pipes certainly seem to have been used for that.
@@DanielsPolitics1 was there ever really the slave driving drum guy on triremes? Seems like a way to communicate when flag signs and Morse code werent things. I thought they even found drums on Mary rose. I hope he does a musical number while answering.
@@kkupsky6321 I really don’t know about triremes, sorry. I can see it having a role in timing rowing, so everyone is in sync.
@@kkupsky6321 drums, bugles, and pipes are more about communicating on the ship, to the crew. The equivalent of the 1MC (pa system on board) and alarms (general quarters, collision alarm, etc).
Damn you, dear Drach. As much as I absolutely hate you for publishing such a marvelous content, as always, I'm still stuck around drydock circa 170. Yes, because it is naval related sleeping aid 😁
I can't miss even a minute of what you're telling us, so some episodes are living with me for couple consecutive evenings. It would be disrespectful not to watch/hear them top to bottom.
You should be tried for being too good at what you're doing 😁😉
Nevertheless, my deepest appreciation and chapeau bas!
PS. My better half is starting to hate you, because I do spent more time with you than with her 🤦
Naval related sleeping aid 😂😂
46:10 - IIRC, isn't the main reason a lot of people don't consider the _Queen Elizabeths_ supercarriers that they're STOVL carriers (and, thus, severely limited in the aircraft they can operate)?
Not to mention the non-nuclear engines which severely limit their mobility and logistical capability.
So what do you call a French aircraft carrier?
I wish I could pay for a question but I figure I’ll just be persistent about ships bands. They had some groups in photos I’ve seen I know there’s musicians mate and such but please enlighten us. Thanks drachifinel. Can I call you drach? Thanks drach. Yer the best
So, what happened to Drach's outro *again?*
"Murphys War". Peter O'Toole.
2:09 First True Warship?...... the Channel covered this... Floaty Log.
Dr Seuss made training films. And green eggs and ham is a result of mermite food containers would impart a green cast to the eggs,ham , and sausages of Army chow served in the field.
If a submersible existed within the channel’s scope, how many paying passengers do you know went to certain demise etc.
In the video about italian frogmen you said that the shallow mediterranean waters did not offer any significant cover/camouflage for the italian submarines against airplanes and now you hint again that there is a difference between the visibility (at the same depth) in the north atlantic and the mediterranean sea. Why is that? Temperature? Oceanwaves?
Abdiel the saviour of Malta
2:26:00 thanks Drach.
what about hydraulic catapults?
00:33:31 - Secret arctic base ... nonsense. Everybody knows they built their secret base on the moon! I've seen the documentary, Iron Sky !
With a dedicated album from a well-known rock band, too.
There is an interesting book called Swastikas in the Artic that covers the very interesting history of the Nazis setting up temporary Artic bases.