NEVER DO THIS WITH NEARFIELD MONITORS !
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
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Streaky explains how to get your nearfield monitors sounding better.
Reviewing new speaker decoupling, isolation products. Comparisons from ISO Acoustic, DMSD 60 PRO & China Cones.
I'd like to point out that I've not received anything from the manufacturers for this review, however if they are watching I'd be happy to receive gifts at any time :)
Iso Acoustic Pucks available here : bit.ly/2tLXyBx
DSMD's available here : bit.ly/2u6izGn
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Dark green isolation stuff is inarguably the best kind of isolation stuff!
Avoid bright colours! Especially Red and Blue isolation stuff, which is too warm and too cool respectively. Green isolation stuff is pleasantly neutral. If there are more than two people in the studio during recording or playback, dark green should be worn... most studios keep a sack of ex-military ponchos for this purpose, but you can use whatever you have available.
Furniture arrangement is important. The room should be laid out according to strict Feng Shui principles. Dark sounding rooms may require exorcising. Bright sounding rooms may indicate the presence of pixies.
Prior to using the room it is usually common practice to ritually sacrifice a Sgt. Peppers album _(A bic lighter is sufficient)_ - this will appease any remaining studio pixies and satisfy the Gods as to your righteousness.
Happy recording
GaryChap This made me lol pretty hard 😂
WTF ...LOOOOOOL .... LMAO :-)
😂
I'm ashamed to admit it took me until the military ponchos to understand this was a joke - I thought the color references were just studio sound lingo I was unaware of.
after the Sgt Pepper sacrifice and a good sage cleansing and adding the green stuff then add a drop of acid and play the japanese cd pressing of tool's "10000 days" and then the ceremony will be complete and you will be able to see the light.
I've used folded beach towels for years.
at least buy some foam. When isolation is discussed there is always someone bragging about using something like an egg box. Why not spend a tenner on some isolation foam, even if to just make your set up look better
@BERT hahah welcome to the internet. Other people's unnecessary opinions forced down your throat ;)
@@CallumSk8er Probably because what he's doing works?
Dampened towels or dry? Small dad joke there. . Towels are awesome for walls as well
Nice idea,thanks
Watching your video Streaky, inspired me to get my head around what I could do for the near field monitors I just bought to isolate them. Being disabled with limited funds, I either have to save for ages to get good equipment or like in this instance, get my grey matter working on an alternative. Sometimes the idea's work out be no good & I have no option but to buy market products. So I got myself down to a local Poundstore & bought 8 high-density foam balls for £2, & at my local hardware shop, I bought 16 large coasters, for sofa's & the like, for £8. Couldn't wait to get home & try this idea out!..... I 1st off put 4 coasters down the right way up & placed a foam ball in each, I then turned the top 4 coasters upside down & balanced them on top of the balls. The speakers were put on top of them. The result was AMAZING!! The speakers are completely isolated from my desk, I can feel the vibrations with my fingers when I touch the top coaster but when I touch the bottom coaster, there is no vibration at all, so the ball is removing it all & the difference this has made is HUGE!! You can see in the screen shot, exactly what I have done & if anyone doesn't believe the result.... try if for ya self! You will be amazed too & not just at the saving you will make but the quality of sound..... All that's left to do now is make a raised shelve to stand my PC monitors on & place the speakers each side of them, to get my triangle right with the tweeters at ear level. It's all good!! prntscr.com/fxnodd
haha this is mega...before clicking through I thought what is this guy on...but they look excellent and if they work that is perfect...nice work 👍
Glad you like them & I would be really interested if you tried this way for yourself & compared them to the others you have. What's to lose? A tenner hahaha
GARY HINDE,,,,,,,,I have just two things to say to YOU !! The First thing is ,,,hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. The Second thing is.THANKS. You are one very Clever dude. :-)
What you made looks very good . isolation vibration devices ..
Great idea, I'm going to try this myself, thanks.
Now i understand why a lot of music is poorly recorded. The speaker sound is going over the engineers head.
Engineer is too strong a word, that requires passing marks, more like high school stoner.
Like the great Drax the Destroyer said: Nothing goes over my head! My reflexes are too fast, I would catch it.
you want the tweeter going over your head and the woofer at ear level, same as with a club or dj setup. the highs will fatigue your ears faster.
I'm running Auralex acoustics angled wedges under my adam audio on floor stands. I have the pucks and the difference is so incredibly small it can only be measure by specialized sound mics. Diminishing returns bro.
Eric Ryan Sound
The tallest pucks or the shorter ones? I’m really interested in putting my speakers on my desk if possible; did u do that or did u use floor stands along w/ the pucks?
Now I know where the term snake oil came from.
Thank you for these iso tips. I worked in Nashville at major a recording studio that used very good isolation for near field speakers. I am retired now and own my own budget friendly studio. The ones I made are 2"X12" rectangles of mineral wool wrapped in material. I had left over. The great monitors I invested heavily in have very, if any that I can detect, No low end loss. Low cost but quiet effective. I haven't had one client tell me they were dissatisfied cause they could hear sound emanating from my mixer desk. You sir, I admit you have much better ears than the average listener. I appreciate your videos and education about such matters.
keeping them ON or NEAR a desk is a fantastic way to EFF up your sound quality right there!!
the more layers of materials with different density you put under it the better the isolation
Yes, im using styrofoam sandwiches. One dense piece on top, a more foamy piece in the middle, then another dense piece on the bottom, works perfectly
Speaker dudes from Auralex are doing the trick, not cheap but very efficient. I used them for a long time, now my Yamaha monitors are on the wall, just to uncouple them from the desk. I have not a lot of space here, so this solution works for me, btw I used the original brackets from Yamaha, these are isolated as well. But you are right placing them right on the console isn't' a good idea. Great video.
I thought this might be a satire video of high end isolation products. But no, you're serious. Have you tried chakra aligning crystals?
LOL! this comment had me dying. I was going to write something similar because this guy sounded like a knob.
I'm dutch. We're as cheap as the scots but we have better PR.
So I'm using decoupling. It started a long time ago with "spikes" that a friend (high-end nut) gave me. "ooooh my" I thought. this actually works.
So now I'm using something that works really well. But I'm not spending 600 squid, instead I'm using basic building materials. :-D
Vibration from near field monitors is super helpful in my case. Ethan mentioned his measurements that show little difference when the sound is measured over the air. What needs to be taken under consideration is that our ears are not the only way the sound reaches our brains. It's also the vibration of the floor, it's the vibration of the console palm rest which we can feel rather than hear. This is an important factor which might actually be helpful rather than harmful. One of the reasons cars are so good for assessing our recordings is the vibration that we feel with our hands resting on car doors, vibrating car floor that we feel with our feet, etc. In this case it doesn't cost much to try different options. Try it yourself what's better for you! Don't listen to "you should never do that" advice.
This is why clubs are better upstairs. The bass carries along the floor more than the hard ground. You feel it more than hear it. Increase the sensation for much less power. Hard floors can often make the bass feel dead.
I'm using paper cone bass driver speakers (old K&H) to check the bass. These never lie, those germans knew what they were doing.
They're the size of small nearfield, but we tested ABX and I can hear 30 Hz on them.
The potentian pitfall with your method is, that, unless you get it 100% right, the room or the surface in the car emphasizes different bass frequencies (through resonances) than in a club.
If you need vibrations over the floor buy a subwoofer. But what Streaky wanted to say is warning that placing the speakers on the meter bridge we are smearing the transients and destroying the high frequency waveform loosing the energy and accuracy and details.
Is there any way to see some kind of test showing frequency or waveforms of how these different acoustic dampers really work in a treated Room??
I use my set of DMSD since 2018 and I totally agree!
Hey, I know a Nigerian prince who has a great offer for you.
This is cry of someone who has never heard them with good monitors in a properly treated room that's set up right. They make a significant difference. It's simple science really.
@@CurtisGabrielMusic And for you I have this snake oil that will cure all your ills.
Overconfidence and ignorance, together at last!
ANY music producer, mixer, mastering engineer, or any musician who's spent time in a studio will tell you this guy is exactly right. That's why he gets paid to master the music you and I listen to, and you don't.
@@theanthill1001 You are speaking entirely for yourself.
You are really pushing the snake oil dude. "takes away smearing in the mids" too funny dude.
What if the speakers are hanging from fishing line tied to the ceiling?
Don’t sit under them 😂👍
You can buy small rubber feet that can be glued onto the speaker base ... that works the same and costs 2 quid for a set of four ...
keith old bean no, if they are to soft they will be compressed and transfer the vibration, same if they are to to hard from the beginning, but I can't say enything about the product he is displaying.
But they are why to expensive.
I use the foam the speakers came in. It's a dense styrofoam. Works great.
Thank you! Great video. I ordered the IsoAcoustics. The DMSD were out of my comfort zone for home audio. Experts like you do a great service. My hearing after 40 years of flying commercial jets isn’t so good. Your review really help me. Ty Steve
I just got a set of True-mix AR5s Studio Monitors very recently and right out of the gate I used some specially-designed Foam Pads between them (that came with in the Studio Monitor Package and the stands, and they really DO make a difference. Before when the only pair of Speakers I had to rely upon where Samson BT3s, I simply used some Styrofoam packaging with them in my Desk to try to provide a level of isolation to try to make the best of what I had! It really does pay off de-coupling your monitors with something!!
"Not these but these. These sound good , however these are better than these. Not these but these. If you think these are good then you need to check out these. These are far better than these. These are more expensive than these but far better than these, these and these. Great review man!
I've used rubber, cca 2cm thick. It is sold for "soundproofing" your washing machine :). I've put it under monitor and under legs of stands I've made for them.
thank for ur knowledge and insight
These are about 600 pounds for two speakers “Ding ding” 💰the phone said. Keep up the good work, love the content! Hope to own an pair of A25 M’s in the future.
Got the pucks under my Kali In-5's and they work really well even though they are on my desk. 😎
I'm not a fan of the iso acoustic stands. I do currently use them but they feel so cheap and the rubber really sticks to the metal adjusters, very frustrating to set up or adjust. Definitely gonna try the daddy pucks !
1:45 You almost smashed your tweeter! :O
Close call :)
LOL this guy is hilarious... "These are good, but these are better" LMFAO
"lOl" well i guess u know it all, but u assume u will only know everything when u tried everything! Happy listening "LMFAO" (SNOB)
Another tip, if you have those bogus acoustic tiles that you typically see youtubers of all types using, put 2 of them together and you basically then have isolation pads. I did this when i realised rockwool panels are better for general room treatment and had all these acoustic foam tiles left over.
LOVE Streaky Mastering! In my project studio, I'm currently in the lower class of foam decoupling for my studio monitors. Foam provided by Thomann (no affiliation). Cheers from Taichung btw! Thank you 'Streaky Mastering' for following me on Instagram as well and thanks for the educational and thoughtful product review, I really liked it. It was helpful because I will skip the isopad entry level in favor of the state of the art solution down the line. However, at this time, the foam is decoupling very well ( in terms of recording budget). ;)
nice, thanks for watching...pleased you're getting something out of it :)
I had mine mounted on wall brackets in the studio I was using. Unfortunately I've not got access to the building now as it closed down, however I'm thinking of doing the same thing where I live. Right now however they are just sat on a glass shelving stand which is itself mounted on top of a worktop. A bit closer together than they used to be due to space but don't sound too bad. I think being glass and not wood helps a bit.
I use 1 foot metal post supports from the hardware store to get my monitors head height and isolated :)
hey that was great, didn't know about the pucks, gonna check them out!
I got the iso-pucks. REALLY good!
600!fuck that!
and they cost 5 bucks to make. but you know.. pro audio
+iven zhou wrote: 600!fuck that!
Me: They're isolation devices, not sex toys ..... even when vibrating ;o)
go to Lowe's and buy a box of rubber flooring tiles for about 20 bucks. they work just as well, and you can stack them as high as you need them.
At: 03:41 I was looking at the Iso Accoustics website and you were saying, "These ones are the daddy... I've been using these, so these are very close to these, but these are better than these. These are really good. These are better. These are quite expensive."
These, these, these, these, these, these, these. If you're only listening to the video, it really doesn't work.
What a stupid complaint. Its a fucking video lol. That is correct, it really doesn't work because you're supposed to be watching xD
Have you tried the Triton Audio NeoLev?
What I found works really great is simple big bubble wrap :) Aircushioned, cus u know, spent all my money on speakers, gonna tinker with my 3d printer and come up with something.
Thick foam pads with rubber feet, really good.
The packing foam that came with my old Rokit 6s has worked for me. I do most of my work by headphones anyway then go around the place checking other speakers.
lmao Ethan is out here takin ERRBODY on. Love your stuff on GS btw Ethan, I've trusted in your opinion for years and have benefitted a great deal from your findings. It's all good and well to believe in the spirit of music and the power of hitting your stride with tone. There is also a benefit to the science of it all, the reason why a pro session player doesn't design the studio they play in (usually). Know your specialty, know your knowledge base and trust those who've spent their 10,000 hours doing something different from you. To put it simply, Ethan's findings are valid and any intuitions you have a as a player or producer are also valid. He uses numbers, you use feeling.
This floating construction eats lows, but distorts highs. Taking in mind amplitude of the high frequency driver much less than 1mm, every micromovement of the monitor will cause macro effects.
To be fair the guy is a mastering engineer where any improvement to sound, no matter how small is critical in that environment. I guess 600 quid is not a lot for him to spend considering the cost of all the other gear. ( I agree it's a ridiculous amount of money for such items).. but for those of us who are first and foremost music producers who have home studio setups in less than perfect acoustic settings, then cheap or homemade isolation pads of some sort are good enough. I use ESI Unik 08+ monitors which are not only great monitors , they actually have built in height adjustable rubber feet to decouple them from surfaces..… oh and both monitors cost around the same as his puck things. ;)
For front ported monitors you can build "portable soffits" by building a box much larget than the monitors and a second opened front box to put your monitors in with a quarter inch of neoprene between them and your monitors. Fill the remainder with sand. If you use beach sand, cook it at 400 or so for at least 30 min. to kill critters. Soffits are sand filled for decoupling, I figured why not build the same thing that isn't part of a wall you don't own? Just position them and then fill with sand! They ain't going to be light and ease to move. They will extend your lower range by around 5 db though!
Hi Streaky, in your opinion,
the iso pucks
can improve performance even with monitors on stands like Zaor product ?
Ty!!
Thanks a lot for that info! I will test that when i fnished my speaker's.
How about just some rubber? Not on such small speaker's but on big and heavy one's like the ATC's that you had.
Streaky is the best !
But do they go to 11?
I use layers of these rubber sheets "loadsecure" that are used to hold skids in place when shipping in a semi trailer.. about 3" thick currently... Free for me. And I was able to layer under anything I've stacked between.
You forgot the pads. Why don't near field monitors have threads at the bottom for screwing in spikes?
would be cheaper to just use some door stoppers its just a bit of plastic at the end of day
Why stop at structure-borne noise? Might as well construct an anechoic room while you're at it.
Nice!!
Streaky, their is no such thing as "these ones". It is either these, those or this one. We apparently.have a culture that has learned improper english. I've been using these (plural) or this one (singular) or those (plural across the room). By the way I don't teach mastering. I will leave that up to the pros like yourself...
Thanks for uploading this valuable information.
Fill some tennis balls with Slime? Just a thought. Or some large packing bubbles.
I never saw Bob Clearmountain or CLA using those and they seem to mix OK 😂
Breeze blocks on desk, blobs of blue tack on top, then wooden boards, finally metal spikes under monitors. Whole set up cost me less than £30 and they are as tight as you like
LOL bullshit. Breeze blocks resonate like crazy and skew the sound of your monitors like mad.
i used those yoga brick with a plus 3 slices of foam, in the middle a kind of photographic material that i have, and it works fine for my jbl lr305
$600 for some neoprene sandwiched in between some aluminum? I guess there's a sucker born every minute. The black ones are just technics 1200 foot design from 50 years ago, rubber pad on bottom with spring in the middle. For that price i can buy a technics 1200 mk7 turntable, and they throw the feet in for free.
Nice shout might find those and try for a video 👍
Iso Pucks? Haven't they already made these since the 70's? Yeah! on any record player. Their feet are "Iso Pucks"
Instead of buying four for each speaker, couldn't you buy three for each speaker? Triangle formation? Two under the front or back, and the single one centered under the opposite side? Would at least save some money?
Foam can point the speakers upwards or downwards. These solutions are just level?
could u leave links in the description when showing products?
Post some actual measurements Streaky, don't just sell.
I see that the black pucks cost £50-60 for two, so £100-£120 for a pair desktop monitors. I think I could make the very same things for peanuts. As for the £600 stuff - more money than sense.
Buy 4 plain circular camera lens hoods. They come in a variety of diameters. I've just seen a 50mm dia lens hood for £1.04, post free [from H.K.]. on eBay. Cut some closed cell foam [loads on eBay] to fit - a reasonably tight fit - into the lens hood with enough foam protruding top and bottom to provide the isolation. Or perhaps use those foam balls from Poundland that Gary Hinde used.
I would like Streaky to A-B-C a set of my design [about £10's-worth] and Gary's against his £200 pucks.
Streaky thank you for the cool and informative videos! Curious what your thoughts are on the Primacoustic Recoil Stabilizers?
i bought isopucks for my eve sc307s and the difference is very noticeable and tight
Mind I just use sponge with cut out part of rubber sleepers and pasted together using the rugby soluble/gums.
Vibrations solve in 5 minutes job.
Cut Size (2.5”x2.5“ inches )
People can use nearfield speakers with a massive stands on the floor and not on desk. In ideal - remove desk from your control room 😆 Only chair, laptop in your hands and acoustic system.
I use a pair of ISO Acoustic stands they do the job a bit on the expensive side.
Thanks for the tip Streaky!
Great video streaky as always, love your posts :) .... challenge to commenters how many times does he say these ? lol
I have been using NBA Official Ice Hockey Pucks under My Technics SL1210mk2's for Years and these look like the Next step up. Might give them a try.
Better how? Measurements?
Ears
Hi how does one decide what the distance should be between the ears and the monitors. No one seems to,be addressing this issue. Is there some kind of system, based on power output, woofer size etc.
Good info.
I've hung them on chains from the ceiling. Works nice.
@@technober You would think chains aren't great but they do work.
Just being broke, not facetious, but what if I just stuck a few pieces of rubber under the speaker. Would that work. Also, what about books. Thanks for the video.
For me, a studio monitor should be free-standing
This is not necessary with a stand box.
But with a 2-way or 3-way nearfield or midfield a must-use stand! It just sounds better and absorb good ones. I take a stone slab as a base where it is decoupled, then the stand on it and the monitor speaker decouple again to the stand!
Yes reflection from the table or screen in front of the monitor. You should avoid it as much as possible!
Place the best screen behind the monitor! Reflections from the table are not easy to avoid.
It depends on the monitor how the tweeters are directed in the vertical plane! And how far the monitor is received from the table.
Must say that the Adam S2v excels because it has very directed high-tone removal in the vertical plane. 😉
I use stands with a height of 92 cm.
The stand height depends on the monitor size and the distance, seat to the monitor!
I see that the center between the treble and bass are aimed at the level of the ears.
So you get a balanced sound
Do you think you will still need one of these isolation products if you have your speakers standing on independent stand from the desk ?
Isn't it a flaw that speakers built for studio use don't have quality isolated feet built onto them?
I've heard of using concrete blocks. Never tried it. My monitors would sit too high. Currently I'm using 2 layers of shipping foam wrapped up in some nice fabric. It's not ideal. The foam is too soft and my monitors started tipping. Time to try something else that's free 😆
Squash balls / tennis balls cut in half will be a step up...!
Sounds a bit like you're hearing the price there.
All solutions except the foam pad all do exactly the same, from a physical standpoint. They use rubber for decoupling.
The only possible difference is maybe the tuning of the rubbers stiffness, length and area. And then the speakers weight would influence this tuning heavily.
I'm fairly certain you can get the same results using Squash balls (or anything rubber with a small contact surface) if you experiment with stiffness, contact area (amount of cut when speaking about squash balls) the count (3 vs. 4 vs. more) and placement under the speaker.
The fun fact is: even the folks with expensive products only got physics to work with.
If you like the convenience, that's a different story. But there is no way 600 bucks will improve physics by that much...
We can't have any bloody smearing in the mids. No that won't do at all.
What if you use all three at the same time one on top of another? How about a cement brick or slab? How about a pillow?
thank you for the advice as usual!!! i see the big PSI in the background.how they sound in comparison to the PMC?
vid coming next week :)
Need have a set that’s on the console to simulate what people do at home putting their speakers on bookshelves and such?
mine are on juggling balls - actually works. disadvantage: their filling will condense over time so there may be a slight angle forming 😉
600 Pounds for something you can make yourself, sounds like its made from magic material like angel hair and batwings that bathed in moonlight at a mercurius eclips.
I think the effects you hear are not from the quality of these stands but all have to do with the baffle effect you create under your speaker.
And most of all the resonance you hear from your desk, depending on how mutch these stands transmit into it.
You can also try those stands with sharp points for minimal contact and place them on a heavy stone plate, i think that will do mutch better than a 600 pound solution.
Haha yeah it is a bit excessive...they do work though. I've had good results from points and concrete but the Iso Pucks where it's more floating on rubber stuff (technical speak) sounds the best to my ears.
Why don't you respond to Ethan Winer at ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm
I've been meaning to but forgot...
I see.
Funny to say but i found out that a screen or wall between the tweeter and mid/woofer also produces a better sound quality, even a piece of cardboard mounted with tape should work, try it out.
The low end soundwaves distord the high frequencies from the tweeter, just like the wind outdoors can influence soundwaves from far away. it worked for for me, way less distortion.
8 by 6 inch should do the trick, to stupid for words, but it works also.
ROTFLMAO. BATWINGS BATHED IN MOONLIGHT....LOL
Tell me please. I have monitors genelec 8040. They are not put on IsoAcoustics ISO racks without the supports that come with them in the kit. If we put a wood plate on these supports, and we already put the speakers on it, will the effect have the same vibration isolation?
Hmmm......two approaches to speaker mounting, decoupling as per this clip, or solid mounting. IMO solid mounting is much, much better. If you haven't experienced this then please try - you will be amazed of 'trueness' of the bass response though-out the range. Concrete blocks, steel tube filled with sand whatever. It's impractical but worth it. £600 for floaty pads, hmmm.....?
BTW, my current nmf are decoupled, like I say impractical!
Thanks a lot for the very informative video. And what about real ice hockey pucks ? i have seen them used seldom under electronics but not speakers actually.
Hey streaky. How can u adjust the heighy with them "isos"?
I have a 6-10 db boost at 160 hz caused by my desk, even with isostands. Will the pucks help remove that boost?
would the pucks further improve my Ultimate MS-100B stands or are they already good enough?
sorbathane ,,,, job done ,, tenth of the price , vinyl djs have been using it for years
Thanks for the suggestion :)
tom thompson there's also monitor foam That only costs like $10
never used it or seen it , ,, so i cant comment ,,
100% correct...but only the dense 1/4" thick stuff. I bought a bunch of it many years ago and never cease to find uses for it. Works like a charm under speakers, and yes, I've compared it other more expensive bullshit stuff. Can't tell the difference.
wow ,, i used to buy it for under turn table feet , technics sl1200s , while providing sound and production at dance events ,,, its great stuff , but i was never lucky enough to find it in any quantity ,,,
That's why you buy a monitor stand and put some foam on it like every professional studio has, and put them behind the desk and behind the mixing panel. There, you're done with less than 40 dollars. You're never gonna convince me a bunch of 600 dollar hockey pucks are gonna get rid of smearing in the mid-range.
Iso Acoustics...invest!! Real cool..
whats the name of the green stuff that you are using?