The community *needs* some updated builds now that the game has been out for a while. Most everyone's builds are at least a month behind! I main Rus, and I find that I just can't quite keep the steam going to get up toward Imperial. They just feel so SLOW, and I'm constantly fighting from behind, but it doesn't make sense because I should be able to harass with early knights to stall out the opponent, but I always end up stumbling around castle age. Right as hunted meat starts drying up, I'm finding the transition to farms too taxing on wood, while trying to maintain eco for an army. Any suggestions?
I feel like i've cracked the code, the answer to the title of every video you upload is "no". If the title says "Is this strategy OP?" the person doing the strategy will lose. If the title has the Viper in it, the Viper will lose. If the title is "Can this be beaten?" then the person doing X will be beaten.
Mongols also have to invest 300 wood for double production and the same total resources for their units as everybody else - but they get 100/min extra thanks to the Ovoo. That's like 3 free vills shortly after the start! They *also* start with 50 more wood and save 50 wood and 15 villager seconds per house, a great boost to the early game, quickly making up for that 300 wood investment. If villagers weren't triple the cost, we'd probably see some eco booming Mongols as well, with double villager production.
16:25 I think putting down some stone wall with a tower is only slightly cheaper than an upgraded outpost with a springald and they can only shoot in one direction. Not sure if that's worth it. Enemy infantry can just walk up the freely accessable stairs and siege it down without the tower being able to shoot at them and even taking reduced damage from other units.
You probably want to place it in the backline so your troops can retreat to it safely rather than using it as a frontline defense. Obviously making sure it's pointed in the direction your enemy is going to siege from but that's not always known, perhaps building one when the enemy starts pushing in rather than before. It seems like it could counter springalds as their springalds won't do nearly as much damage to it compared to your own springalds if your mass is smaller. This also gets countered by rams, but having the ram target a tower rather than an important building might be the thing that saves you.
@@cagxplays9602 Plus, a fortified outpost with springald is still cheaper than a springald unit, so you can just as easily spam them defensively. Just gotta put some vills on stone instead of gold. Takes 14 shots to destroy a ram, so a couple of outposts should easily deal with it. You can also garrison cheap scouts for extra arrows and unleash them onto any siege.
@@Muenni outposts cost materials you need to build your army. Instead of spamming out normal outposts, why not just use spare stone instead of limiting your unit production.
@@cagxplays9602 Why would you have spare stone? Why would you mine it just to float it? Outposts cost mostly stone when you consider the upgrades: 225 stone, 100 wood and 50 gold, I think, if fortified. The outpost spam of course only makes sense when you're on the defence, but then it's better than slowly pouring in new mobile springalds to fend off the opposing springald mass. A keep runs you 2.5x the cost of such an upgraded outpost or almost 4x as much if they're not fortified. So a lot more springalds but fewer arrows, so I'd chose depending on what I deem the greater threat.
@@Muenni well you should be mining for town centres and keeps and you might not always be able to get enough down for a keep before you need to defend, you can build towers instead. Also whilst playing the game, sometimes your attention is elsewhere and you have villagers mine a bit of extra stone, it happens. Theres no such thing as floating stone when its almost always useful.
Just a bit of trivia from viper's stream. He doesn't wall cuz he thinks it helps him learn a lot more about civ match ups and he is often not employing optimum strategies just to learn. Not taking anything away from the opponent though. He played really well. Have nice day lads 🤗
I guess you can say 'DAN or DEN YOU - B'. The E at the end is silent like in USE. Germans call it Donau which is actually easier for me to say (as an English speaker).. pronounced 'Doh-now'
@@Sjimbwow right? Haha it's weird learning European names and realizing Vienna is really 'Wien'. Like I now understand why hot dogs are called wieners, because they're just viennese sausages.. the more you learn the less you know
@@christopherpollard2267 And then there is Becs, which was embraced but us south of the Danube as Bech (the Ch as in Church). Also, we call it Dunav (Do - Nav (like in navigation but without the igation)).
As a person who lives at the river Danube, I can confirm. This is how you pronounce the river in English. In German it is called Donau, you would pronounce it Dou-Now
Love the videos dude, not watched this many gaming videos in years. But lately I am watching way to many AOE4 videos (many of them yours) and also Halo Infinite videos, well done MS :)
Once the mongols had a springald-spearmen mass i knew viper had lost. Even if he placed that castle that drongo suggested, it would have only delayed the inevitable. the mongols would have kept building up their attack faster than the chinese could build up a defence since they had complete map control and could build springalds on the field.
I wonder why Viper pulled back his crossbows even when there wasn't any more infantry running at him. If you pull back and then have to get back into range, you lose a lot of damage output, while the springalds can continue to shoot at them. But I'm afraid greatly superior numbers, the crossbows aren't great against springalds with their 8 range armour. You probably need to target the infantry (that is also producing those springalds), then pump out scouts to wipe the springalds. A springald doesn't kill a crossbowman any faster than a single MAA in melee does, it actually takes some time to kill them off with them. If you produce springalds against springalds in greater number, you're giving them ideal targets and trade badly.
Light Junks fire 3 x 10 dmg arrows every 0.95 sec, so 25 DPS against Chinese Junks. The Junks fire 4 x 8 dmg arrows but much slower, every 1.95 sec, and have one less armour, so they only deal 10.3 DPS. So even with 650 instead of 400 hp, the Light Junks just seem better (26 vs 40 sec to kill the opponent). And their higher damage output should snowball better. I think only Dhows are worse than Chinese Junks. :(
@@SethBennion It has the lowest of them all, even slightly lower than the DPS of the Chinese Junk and half that of the Mongol Light Junk. It does have 25% more hp and one more ranged armour (the Chinese has 66% more hp than the Light Junk though). A single Light Junk needs 28 shots to take a single Dhow down, so 26.6 seconds. A Dhow needs only 20 shots to destroy a Light Junk, but it takes 40 seconds to fire those off. And against Attack Ships like the Early Hulk the extra armour is almost worthless, so the Light Junk will perform even better in comparison. It's probably done to make up for the cheaper docks / armed fishing boats of Abbasids / Delhi. But with free housing and if Mongols postpone their ovoo, they'll easily get a similar wood bonus towards an early navy. Hope this helps.
@@SethBennion So can the Light Junks (even with slightly more range), but yeah, the Dhow are the fastest ship out there. Really, they're the horseman of the sea! ;)
your math is off. as chinese with the 35% vill production speed bonus times 2x towncenters its not "a little more than 3" but actually a little less than three. 2,7 to be precise.
I appreciate you uploading a bunch of Chinese videos since no on bothers to play such an underpowered civ in important games. Hopefully next patch Chinese won't suck anymore.
Am I crazy or did the Barbican of the Sun not attack the Mongol forces? Visually, I couldn't see the cannons go off. If the landmark was bugged, it could be why Viper didn't build the castle earlier.
Fish is by far the best food source in the game. It gathers really fast and doesn't require villagers, which means your dock acts as a second TC, essentially doubling your "villager" production.
China..... It really looks underpowered.... Along with the HRE..... But it's a cool civ with alot of potential. And enough tricks up its sleeves to at least be competitive despite that. The problem is it's such a comes civ that you have to ask: how do you fix it?
did you know mongol empire had a very very big navy, the attack on japan had 250 000 soldier's that scale kind of invasion was only beaten when the allies invaded nazi germany on Normandy France
@@LawrenceCaldwellAuthor Because iirc, you can't always use Mongol. If you win a match using Mongol, you can't use that race for the rest of the match.
AoE2 pros are used to having casters use their content. Viper also casts and frequently uses his colleagues contents as well. He actually made a some money and fame early on by by using DauT's face over and over again. His emotes and merchandise are mostly daut.
He does not need his permission to cast his replays. The idea of casters needing to pull in permission from any player they cast is ridiculous, and would kill the scene.
@@1984kron He doesn't need permission, but considering Viper has a presence on RUclips (and likely makes money from it) its just a professional courtesy. I'm willing to bet that Drongo did ask though.
I think Pringles are fine. I think mangonels are a bit too good which means you can never really mass crossbows or infantry, which is what kind of counters springhalds
The issue with mongols right now is that they can get on the offensive faster than anyone. On top of that they generate resources from it. They also have a good economy, which they can continue to build up in the background. And even more, they can build up siege at the front line. What this means, is that they can always gain a military lead, map control and extend that to a relentless assault, that will not stop unless they make a big mistake. There is not much in the game right now that could stop it. The only way would be to delay the attack long enough that you could raid the Mongol eco and hurt them badly enough, that they can't afford to push more military units, then turn that raid into a counter push against the Mongols. But that said, it's hard to delay the push long enough while making your own military for a raid. The whole kit of Mongols is a bit too strong right now. What they need, is a nerf to the siege building at the frontline, a nerf to the khan and a nerf to their gold income with Steppe Redout.
I think just making springalds be produced significantly slower rather than faster at the frontlines will be nerfing that strat to ok levels. I don't think the Mongols need that many nerfs. If you can hold out against them, their early eco advantages don't scale like a faster vill production does, so you can overtake them. I also don't think it's a good idea to nerf the Redoubt, otherwise a single Imperial Official or prelate does just as much and isn't bound to gold mining. Maybe just take away their extra 50 wood at start? That way, if they go straight for the ovoo, the have to go for straggler trees just to get the lumber camp up, postponing their barracks, making them a little less oppressive in the early game (but still their focus).
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/af0phKxitX8/mqdefault.jpg)
You can check out TheViper here ➤ ruclips.net/user/TheViperAOE
The community *needs* some updated builds now that the game has been out for a while. Most everyone's builds are at least a month behind! I main Rus, and I find that I just can't quite keep the steam going to get up toward Imperial. They just feel so SLOW, and I'm constantly fighting from behind, but it doesn't make sense because I should be able to harass with early knights to stall out the opponent, but I always end up stumbling around castle age. Right as hunted meat starts drying up, I'm finding the transition to farms too taxing on wood, while trying to maintain eco for an army. Any suggestions?
Danube is pronounced dan-yoob
Liked for the rock, stayed for the hard place
These springald wars are ridiculous.
Its Dan-ube as in tube :)
Or "DAN-yoob"
I feel like i've cracked the code, the answer to the title of every video you upload is "no". If the title says "Is this strategy OP?" the person doing the strategy will lose. If the title has the Viper in it, the Viper will lose. If the title is "Can this be beaten?" then the person doing X will be beaten.
Mostly yea. I was actually surprised that the last video highlighted Viper's booming on Chinese - and then he won by booming as Chinese lol. Shocking.
Damn it Jimmy
It is known as Betteridge's law of headlines
@@lucaxtshotting2378 It bothers me more that the answer to the question is "yes."
Mongols also have to invest 300 wood for double production and the same total resources for their units as everybody else - but they get 100/min extra thanks to the Ovoo. That's like 3 free vills shortly after the start! They *also* start with 50 more wood and save 50 wood and 15 villager seconds per house, a great boost to the early game, quickly making up for that 300 wood investment.
If villagers weren't triple the cost, we'd probably see some eco booming Mongols as well, with double villager production.
16:25 I think putting down some stone wall with a tower is only slightly cheaper than an upgraded outpost with a springald and they can only shoot in one direction. Not sure if that's worth it. Enemy infantry can just walk up the freely accessable stairs and siege it down without the tower being able to shoot at them and even taking reduced damage from other units.
You probably want to place it in the backline so your troops can retreat to it safely rather than using it as a frontline defense. Obviously making sure it's pointed in the direction your enemy is going to siege from but that's not always known, perhaps building one when the enemy starts pushing in rather than before. It seems like it could counter springalds as their springalds won't do nearly as much damage to it compared to your own springalds if your mass is smaller. This also gets countered by rams, but having the ram target a tower rather than an important building might be the thing that saves you.
@@cagxplays9602 Plus, a fortified outpost with springald is still cheaper than a springald unit, so you can just as easily spam them defensively. Just gotta put some vills on stone instead of gold.
Takes 14 shots to destroy a ram, so a couple of outposts should easily deal with it. You can also garrison cheap scouts for extra arrows and unleash them onto any siege.
@@Muenni outposts cost materials you need to build your army. Instead of spamming out normal outposts, why not just use spare stone instead of limiting your unit production.
@@cagxplays9602 Why would you have spare stone? Why would you mine it just to float it? Outposts cost mostly stone when you consider the upgrades: 225 stone, 100 wood and 50 gold, I think, if fortified. The outpost spam of course only makes sense when you're on the defence, but then it's better than slowly pouring in new mobile springalds to fend off the opposing springald mass. A keep runs you 2.5x the cost of such an upgraded outpost or almost 4x as much if they're not fortified. So a lot more springalds but fewer arrows, so I'd chose depending on what I deem the greater threat.
@@Muenni well you should be mining for town centres and keeps and you might not always be able to get enough down for a keep before you need to defend, you can build towers instead. Also whilst playing the game, sometimes your attention is elsewhere and you have villagers mine a bit of extra stone, it happens. Theres no such thing as floating stone when its almost always useful.
Just a bit of trivia from viper's stream. He doesn't wall cuz he thinks it helps him learn a lot more about civ match ups and he is often not employing optimum strategies just to learn. Not taking anything away from the opponent though. He played really well.
Have nice day lads 🤗
yes tournament viper is whole different animal
I guess you can say 'DAN or DEN YOU - B'. The E at the end is silent like in USE. Germans call it Donau which is actually easier for me to say (as an English speaker).. pronounced 'Doh-now'
Lol that pronunciation killed me lmaooo
In the netherlands we also say Donau. Never knew Danube is the Donau lol. Danube sounds kind of african/middle eastern to me.
@@Sjimbwow right? Haha it's weird learning European names and realizing Vienna is really 'Wien'. Like I now understand why hot dogs are called wieners, because they're just viennese sausages.. the more you learn the less you know
My Roman history lessons paid off 2 decades later for how to pronounce it. Now how to use that in looking for work lol
@@christopherpollard2267 And then there is Becs, which was embraced but us south of the Danube as Bech (the Ch as in Church). Also, we call it Dunav (Do - Nav (like in navigation but without the igation)).
For future reference, it's pronounced DAN-yoob
It's a river that runs through Germany
@@MrJenkyn Germans call it Donau, jibberjabber here is correct
As a person who lives at the river Danube, I can confirm. This is how you pronounce the river in English. In German it is called Donau, you would pronounce it Dou-Now
Strauss would be very disappointed.
ther it is haha
Dan-Yoob, please drongo. Dan-yoob
Danube is pronounced 'Da
n-yoob' like tube without the T. You can tell Drongo has been man handled by the Mongols in game.
"a rock and a hard place" well actually gold is surprisingly soft /j
14:00 “he is known to be quite the boomer” heh
Love the videos dude, not watched this many gaming videos in years. But lately I am watching way to many AOE4 videos (many of them yours) and also Halo Infinite videos, well done MS :)
'Dan-ube' as in 'Lube.'
Danube, the River running across central Europe to the Black Sea, pronounced with a longish "u" and no "e"
Dan-you-b is the pronunciation!
Once the mongols had a springald-spearmen mass i knew viper had lost. Even if he placed that castle that drongo suggested, it would have only delayed the inevitable. the mongols would have kept building up their attack faster than the chinese could build up a defence since they had complete map control and could build springalds on the field.
I wonder why Viper pulled back his crossbows even when there wasn't any more infantry running at him. If you pull back and then have to get back into range, you lose a lot of damage output, while the springalds can continue to shoot at them.
But I'm afraid greatly superior numbers, the crossbows aren't great against springalds with their 8 range armour. You probably need to target the infantry (that is also producing those springalds), then pump out scouts to wipe the springalds. A springald doesn't kill a crossbowman any faster than a single MAA in melee does, it actually takes some time to kill them off with them. If you produce springalds against springalds in greater number, you're giving them ideal targets and trade badly.
/ˈdænjuːb/ pretty big river starting in Germany, going all the way to the black sea.
Light Junks fire 3 x 10 dmg arrows every 0.95 sec, so 25 DPS against Chinese Junks. The Junks fire 4 x 8 dmg arrows but much slower, every 1.95 sec, and have one less armour, so they only deal 10.3 DPS. So even with 650 instead of 400 hp, the Light Junks just seem better (26 vs 40 sec to kill the opponent). And their higher damage output should snowball better.
I think only Dhows are worse than Chinese Junks. :(
What is the DPS of the dhow and how good does it perform in relation to other ships?
@@SethBennion It has the lowest of them all, even slightly lower than the DPS of the Chinese Junk and half that of the Mongol Light Junk. It does have 25% more hp and one more ranged armour (the Chinese has 66% more hp than the Light Junk though). A single Light Junk needs 28 shots to take a single Dhow down, so 26.6 seconds. A Dhow needs only 20 shots to destroy a Light Junk, but it takes 40 seconds to fire those off. And against Attack Ships like the Early Hulk the extra armour is almost worthless, so the Light Junk will perform even better in comparison. It's probably done to make up for the cheaper docks / armed fishing boats of Abbasids / Delhi. But with free housing and if Mongols postpone their ovoo, they'll easily get a similar wood bonus towards an early navy.
Hope this helps.
@@Muenni Though the Dhow can fire while moving, so you could MAYBE just run away and hope the enemies' ships die.
@@SethBennion So can the Light Junks (even with slightly more range), but yeah, the Dhow are the fastest ship out there. Really, they're the horseman of the sea! ;)
Anyone know when the next aoe4 tournament is?
It is Donau okay?!
No, it is Dunay okay?!
You spelled Duna wrong.
Why use stone wall towers instead of outposts with the springnald emplacement, which one is more effective?
I've seen you win against TheViper in one match, holymoly I didnt expect that, gj!
mongols coming from the north. seems legit
Liking the Nooby River map :D
Doo-na-bae 😂😂 amazing, heard that one!
(it's De-newb)
Da nooby river lol
love ur aoe videos
Congrats on 50k
your math is off.
as chinese with the 35% vill production speed bonus times 2x towncenters its not "a little more than 3" but actually a little less than three. 2,7 to be precise.
The English pronunciation of Danube is "DAN-yoob."
Good cast
I think it's prouncouned day-noob river
I appreciate you uploading a bunch of Chinese videos since no on bothers to play such an underpowered civ in important games. Hopefully next patch Chinese won't suck anymore.
mmmh I feel like Viper is playing to improve and Lucifron is using whats broken..
Exactly, but that is why Viper is the champ.
A rematch 😬
"The noob" river
"Da noob"
Why would anyone not build walls against mongols? Specially chinese?
Am I crazy or did the Barbican of the Sun not attack the Mongol forces? Visually, I couldn't see the cannons go off. If the landmark was bugged, it could be why Viper didn't build the castle earlier.
The handcannons are almost invisible, really hard to see
Danube is pronounced like: Dan - Noob (maybe a bit like njoob)
it's pronounced Zhuge Nu, named after Zhuge Liang (military strategist)
Age of Spring Alts
im new to this, so is giving up early fish control really bad? how so?
fish collect very fast, compared to other food sources, so it can be advantageous to utilize them
Fish is by far the best food source in the game. It gathers really fast and doesn't require villagers, which means your dock acts as a second TC, essentially doubling your "villager" production.
DUNAV!
Da-nyoob.
Da-nyoob!
Dan-YOOB
China..... It really looks underpowered.... Along with the HRE.....
But it's a cool civ with alot of potential. And enough tricks up its sleeves to at least be competitive despite that. The problem is it's such a comes civ that you have to ask: how do you fix it?
why are mongols S tier on water? serious question that i needs an answer:(
Because mongol empire was op
did you know mongol empire had a very very big navy, the attack on japan had 250 000 soldier's that scale kind of invasion was only beaten when the allies invaded nazi germany on Normandy France
Best civ vs weakest civ, feels bad man
Who eliminated lucifron at the genesis tourney?
Viper, I think
@@Cyrribrae How? lol
@@LawrenceCaldwellAuthor Because iirc, you can't always use Mongol. If you win a match using Mongol, you can't use that race for the rest of the match.
@@LawrenceCaldwellAuthor Because Viper was not using the worst civ like he did in this game?
I'm loving all this Viper content, but I wonder tho have you spoken with Viper to make sure he's alright with you going through his replays?
AoE2 pros are used to having casters use their content. Viper also casts and frequently uses his colleagues contents as well. He actually made a some money and fame early on by by using DauT's face over and over again. His emotes and merchandise are mostly daut.
@@niki8280 All of AoE2 worships our Lord DauT.
What you see is not profiteering, but faith and devotion.
He does not need his permission to cast his replays. The idea of casters needing to pull in permission from any player they cast is ridiculous, and would kill the scene.
@@1984kron He doesn't need permission, but considering Viper has a presence on RUclips (and likely makes money from it) its just a professional courtesy. I'm willing to bet that Drongo did ask though.
@@aramada998 He also has Viper's channel linked and mentions it at the end of the video.
springles are too cheap?
I think Pringles are fine. I think mangonels are a bit too good which means you can never really mass crossbows or infantry, which is what kind of counters springhalds
Pronounced Dan-you’ve
its pronounced DONAU : [ ˈdoːnaʊ̯ ]
Is the mispronunciation stuff a runing joke? Insert Futurama squinting Fry gif.
Its DAN-yoob
Feels good to watch viper lose
Really with the spoilers
pronounced
da - nyoob
Dan-youb river
It's sad to see that almost all chinese videos you upload, the Chinese are losing the game in the end... :(
Not enough bees
DeyN00b river
And another Chinese video. Gogo you can do it! Mabye this time china will win! (probably not, but who doesn't like a underdog!)
The issue with mongols right now is that they can get on the offensive faster than anyone. On top of that they generate resources from it. They also have a good economy, which they can continue to build up in the background. And even more, they can build up siege at the front line. What this means, is that they can always gain a military lead, map control and extend that to a relentless assault, that will not stop unless they make a big mistake. There is not much in the game right now that could stop it. The only way would be to delay the attack long enough that you could raid the Mongol eco and hurt them badly enough, that they can't afford to push more military units, then turn that raid into a counter push against the Mongols. But that said, it's hard to delay the push long enough while making your own military for a raid. The whole kit of Mongols is a bit too strong right now. What they need, is a nerf to the siege building at the frontline, a nerf to the khan and a nerf to their gold income with Steppe Redout.
I think just making springalds be produced significantly slower rather than faster at the frontlines will be nerfing that strat to ok levels. I don't think the Mongols need that many nerfs. If you can hold out against them, their early eco advantages don't scale like a faster vill production does, so you can overtake them. I also don't think it's a good idea to nerf the Redoubt, otherwise a single Imperial Official or prelate does just as much and isn't bound to gold mining. Maybe just take away their extra 50 wood at start? That way, if they go straight for the ovoo, the have to go for straggler trees just to get the lumber camp up, postponing their barracks, making them a little less oppressive in the early game (but still their focus).
Just look up how to say Danube man, it’s not hard.
O that patch can’t get here soon enough. This meta is ultra stale.
meta's been what it is for 3 weeks are you're already whining about it being stale dude
@@MrBlueSleeves yes, I’m pretty sure that’s what my message said.
first :P
Ai needs improvement, 20 crossbows all shooting one single dude every single time is just terrible to watch and bad for gameplay.
I just skip trough cause the outcome its so predictable :/ they have to balance the mongols, they make the game boring
age of springalds, such lazy way to do a counter system; damn blue haired devs
Fewer Viper games please, let us see other players.
A lot of players don't make their replays available, so he's just working with what he can get.