I’ve never seen and heard an explanation so clear an inspirational about the edge angel timing. Super lesson, I learn a lllot watching this video. Thank you so much 🙏
Have a look at the direction of your head compared to Chris in the beginning of each turn. I think the reason why he is able to lean more into each bend is that his focus lies exactly half a turn in front of where he is. It does look like your focus (direction of your head) is couple of meter in front of you. It forces you to start each turn with your skis (and not your center of gravity), which in turn does not give you time to get low enough. Suggestion for coming videos: make a series of how rotation plays a part in skiing and how to control it. Try to ski down a hill with a big backpack (doesn't have to be super heavy). The backpack will after each mid turn, try to continue the rotation you have made the first half of the turn. The only solution to solve this in a consistent way is to focus on a point half a turn in front of you. Example: when you pass a gate, your forcus point is passing the next gate. Look at any professional skier i slow motion.
What a great comment Huschitify. Thank you. That's a great observation and finding. Chris keeps his head pointing more down the hill. I hope people read these comments as they hold so much value. I will get back to you with this asap. Thanks for watching, Cheers :)
Nice video. Kili Weibel just covered the same subject where he said you should put the most pressure on the outside ski at the end of the turn in order to be able to complete it. It is nice to see the same subject covered several times from slightly different angles.
Thanks for the info! I will try to look for that video. And thanks for watching. Yes, every content creator on YT has a different angle on things so great to get several different inputs. Cheers, Tom
So sweet of you to leave such a nice comment. And glad to hear that you actually watch lots of my videos as there are many of them that never really caught on and got a lot of views but are still full of valuable content. Thanks once more and thanks for watching. Cheers, Tom
Thanks Tom I appreciate it. You did graciously review a video of me last year which I really appreciate and suggested I work on keeping my outside shoulder down to help tighten the radius. I’ll work on that and send you another!
Hi Triggerboy. To improve the dynymic during transission, i like the following practise. Both pools in one hand (outside ski side), during Transmission throw both pools in front of you to the other hand. I am looking forward what you are saing after tryer. Your videos are always a lot of fun and interesting. Best regards from Germany
Grate remainder for all skiers espacialy at the time when we start skiing after off season brake time. For me it was grate add on from goggle tip and carving speed control videos. Luckly for me I live near indorr snow arena, so can keep practicing all year round.
Thanks for sharing! Lucky you. Living next door to a indoor skiing arena. I have actually never skied in one. Im stuck watching my waterskis hang on the wall.... with these gas prices there will be no skiing this summer.
In the new season coming back on the same subject when I delay this early pressure, I feel like I free fall with my mass into the turn after edge change and if you get it right all you need to do is a minor adjustment to pressure from your leg so you fully in control of your turn.
Thanks Tom great video. I’ve wondered if you were on 157s and here you showed you ski both. I’m 46 and thinking about dropping down to 157 (5’10, 100kg)
Thank you and thanks for watching. I would not go back to 157. 165 is much more stable and has better edge hold. The only real advantage with the shorter skis is a tighter turn radius. However, that is not really a great advantage anymore as ski racing has hanged. It used to be very important to carve the whole turn through but that already is outdated. Or maybe it always was. Dont get me wrong, it is still important be able to arc turns but nowadays you pick a ski that carves the more open and wider turns cleanly, while tighter turns and on steeps you start with a small pivot. And when I look at the jr we are coaching, as soon as they jump on 165's they fly. The most important thing is to have big edge angles and well tuned edges. But Im handing out advice without really knowing anything about you. If you do not race then a shorter ski can be fun on short hills or when coaching kids with short skis. Tell me more about yourself or send a video to tdk.skiracing@gmail.com. Cheers, Tom
I also think you point out something that is confusing to many, myself included - the concept that not all turns need to be linked carve-to-carve at all times 100%. I think this is where the term “short turns” comes in, which I think of as basically brushed turns or at least the top of the turn is brushed, vs purely carved turns where the edge is engaged while the stance ski is still “uphill” and progressively brought to pressure through the turn - is this correct?
I think the difference between Chris and you is what Harald Harb describes as initiating the turn at the top of the C shape of the turn, when the skis are still pointing away from the fall line, away from the direction of the center of mass. I think you are initiating the turn late, compared to Chris. Chris is initiating the tipping to the new edges at the top of the turn, while his skis are still pointing to the trees at the side of the piste. Freeze Chris at 1:09. That is the difference I think. Skis pointing away from the fall line and he’s carving on the new inside edges at the top of the C.
It's not only the top of the turn. How you finish with added bending and tipping is the key to the lower "C" finish. If the skier stays stiff or pushes after the apex, you only achieve the ski side cut curve. Adding angle through giving in and adding tipping is the crux few skiers achieve. Keep in mind here that squaring the hips kills all of the tipping ability.
Tom, your video came up in my RUclips feed again, a year later. Rewatching it, I have another thought about it. Extending the duration in transition can result in lowering the stance at the top of the turn. The benefit of being more compact is more dynamic skiing, because starting from a flexed outside ankle allows for the progressive extension of the outside leg heading toward the apex of the turn. // Marshall
From what I see The main difference is that Chris “topples” into the turn, as Tom Gellie would say. It is related to the idea of Richie Berger who suggests that creating edge angle can be done by moving ze feet away from ze body”. Combine the two….
Another great tip, thank you. Great timing, we’re about to head up to New Hampshire for another weekend of skiing. This will be echoing inside my head whilst I try to put this and all the other great tips into practice :-)
Many people neglect their need for speed when carving. You need to want that speed maintained through the arc. Most intermediates and advanced skiers are still apprehensive about excess speed for good reasons using turning strictly to slow down, It hurts to fall. Learning to trust your equipment and understanding the forces at work help reduce apprehension about speed, accelerations and seemingly gravitic forces in dynamic skiing.
Not only carving but any form of skiing. You need speed to turn. That is the basic rule. That's the reason you need to develop skills to turn. To stay in control. And, you also need to "grow" into speed. That is the reason why we start any session with basic slow wedging or RR-tracks drills. Carving is a high level technique and generates high speeds. Cheers, Tom
To be more precise, you start turn earlier by pointing skis more to the outside rather than well down the fall line. That lets skis get on higher edges while your upper body travels at more direct line. Only from that point on you can start to pressure skis to perform quick sporty turn.
Yes, that is how you do it. Also watch my Google ski video. Same concept explained a bit differently. Thats why we want to be gentle on our skis at the top of the turn. Build edge angles before engaging them at full force. Cheers, Tom
Good ide. I have had this request many times and its on my to do list. Now, get on with it right? Hahaa... hopefully I can make one in the near future. Cheers, Tom
Note that Chris has higher hip angulation versus Tom, and the resultant stance is for the uphill ski to lead in height (compared to the downhill ski) and ski tips are more forward for the inside ski versus ski tips for the outside ski. For several years "railroad" track skiing has been the new technique, where the inside ski is more weighted and the inside knee is steered to match the downhill ski. The resultant ski track is a set of railroad tracks. Note that when you see this type of skiing, the turns are quite shallow (i.e. not complete turns where the skis finish across the hill) and certainly not on steep terrain. Try standing in ski boots alone on flat terrain while pushing your knees into the hill (actually it is hip angulation as knees cannot angulate laterally) and you will see that both legs of the skier are matched side by side. Now try this same stance on inclined terrain. To stay in balance your hips must go into the hill for angulation and the uphill ski (boot) must lead and it is higher than the downhill ski (boot). In a static stance such as this, you might feel out of balance which is to be expected and fall down, as there isn't any centrifugal force generated at zero velocity. Remember velocity has a speed component and a direction component. It is the centrifugal force that bends the skis into reverse camber (i.e. ski angulation) and to combat this force the whole body must incline (i.e. banked turns), or the hips must move inside alongside with knee angulation to compensate. The key idea is that the uphill ski must lead for any inclined terrain. The old A-frame stance (i.e. Mahre turn) had the inside ski not angulated or pressured like the downhill ski. The Mahre turn sure made for some "knock-kneed" skiers. If skiers are still locked into A-frame skiing then they need to experiment with canting. Tom, what separates old guys like us compared to Chris, is that we don't have the strength or flexibility to drop our hips to touch the ground. Notice that old skiers are much more upright compared to younger skiers. This is why core strength and flexibility are so important to older skiers.
Thanks Landwy for your great insight. Everything you say is true. The inside ski leads more on steeper terrain or when skier inclines into the turn. Yes, Chris is more flexible, stronger and muscles more explosive. We have to settle for more moderate edge angles and skiing in general. That's how we age. Sooner or later :)
Tom, Tom Gellie and Sam Robertson also talk about the steps being inclination, then angulation. I’ve played with it myself to see the difference firsthand. I find that if I start to counter rotate too early (before reaching the apex of the turn) that I’m adding steering of the skis toward the fall line. The result, as you noted, is that I’m not allowing enough time for the inside edge of my outside ski to achieve its highest edge angle. What you showed so well (by using the overlay) was the tightening of the bottom of the turn by being patient. But the notion that achieving a higher edge angle produces a tighter turning radius is actually nothing new. For instance, Lito Tejada Flores was teaching this decades ago so it seems to me, as an avid student of the sport, that we keep “rediscovering” what we’ve known all along. //Marshall
You are perfectly right. There is little new in the world of skiing. But the industry needs to have new stuff in order to sell more products or services. So we end up in the belief that old school is BS and this bling bling device or peace of gear or technique will turn you into a WC skiracer in a blink of an eye. I have no such ambitions so I stick to what I found works. Lito made some great books and videos back in the day and all that stuff is still valid. Hats off to all those great skiers. Cheers, Tom
That is partly true. However, if we look at carving technique basics, the skis turn when tipped and edged. Not when weighted or pushed. Sometimes referred to as "passive weight transfer" where turnforces create the pressure, not the you pushing or perssing the skitips. Wanna turn tighter, tip more. That said, from a very low position at transition you should push yourself into the turn. Racing technique in certain situations.
Exactly. It happens to me often that after skiing with SL skis and I put my GS skis on that I lean into the turn to aggressively and crash. I was actually skiing GS skis today for the first time this season and did not loose my balance to the inside. Because I was patient at the start of the turn :) Thanks for watching and leaving such a great comment. Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 I only say it because I fall into that trap a lot haha. I love freeskiing on my slalom skis because they're so quick so I have to slow down when I am on GS skis. It's easy for me to lean over and get on my back seat and inside ski.
For those who'd try this without any background: Dropping in a turn is possible because the ski is anchored into the snow, keeping you from drifting. Your angular momentum prevents you from falling. You need to have legs strong enough to hold the pressure. This pressure increases with speed and tighter turn radius. Also remember that you gain speed when the ski's flat on the snow :) Which is probably why Chris builds up more speed and has the same rhythm despite have overall larger loops
Stacking action (counterbary) keeps you upright. The principle of least action is required for efficiency. Many try too hard and fail to engage skis design properly. Excess motion is as bad as static positions in attaining the next level of excitation.
Really useful video. Very helpful. Seems like in general the term "early edging" often leads to some confusion. "Early" compared to what?... the end of the last turn?... the fall line?... something else?
I have very much enjoyed your videos especially about carving, since I am a newbie and trying to learn skiing and carving for the first time. Can you speak to the question of distance between the skis - shoulder width or more wider or very narrow? I see on the mountain here people skiing and carving with the skis close together which makes me feel very unstable when I try it. So I end up with skis wide apart which causes the skis to track in different directions when on edge. Thank you so much for your amazing instructions and explanations
Thanks for watching and asking such a question. If you are a beginner then go to my playlists and look through the beginner instruction videos. Carving would be out of your scope at this right moment but as soon as you nail those wedge drills and are able to balance over your outside ski and turn parallel then you will be able to close your stance. But you should ski with your skis as far apart or as narrow as comfortable. I have over the years varied my stance width and lately ended up in a very close stance and been instructed at clinics and coaching seminars to widen my stance a bit. It comes and goes. If you have video of yourself skiing please send it to me and I will comment. Cheers, Tom
I think we have to make a difference between „normal“ carving and Race-carving. For an average skier or someone, who is not aiming for Race-skiing, it is important to keep the knees more under the hip. Because the way back takes too long to be in a neutral position early enough in the transition. Consequences: having the COM in the back and over the inside ski. So, I am very careful to tell skiers to push the skis outwards…
Hi, thanks for watching and leaving a comment. Not sure what you are saying in your last sentence but I agree with you that recreational skiers should not use their knees to create edge angles. That is actually the wrong way to do it for advanced skiers as well. The knees are used only at the end of the turn for extra edge pressure. At the end when you are saying "pushing your skis outwards" Im kind of thinking the other way around, dropping myself to the inside of the turn to get my torso away from over the skis. Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 It would be easier to explain it in german 😂 I am a „normal“ skiing teacher, not a race trainer. And a lot skiers have the same problem: they push the feet outwards at the end of the turn. So my approach is to teach to keep the knees not right under, but more below the hip and to move the skis back under the hip towards the end of the turn. If the skier is able to do this correctly, the next step is to lengthen the outside leg more and more towards the forces - and at least learn to carve.
Hello, At the same time, it should be noted that Chris rides more in a circle and the skis are pointing across the slope at all times. You Tom, on the other hand, were quicker to steer your skis down the slope. The question is which ride will be more effective on the gates? Let's remember that Ted Ligetty skied beautifully all arcs on the edges and won, but Marcel Hirsher, who was skiing more forcefully down the slope, was the best after that. I think it all has to be balanced to be the fastest on the gate. Greetings from Poland
İ think the reason you are rushing the turn is not about edging or pressuring early. İn the first run you are adding a bit of twist at the top of the turn. That gets you quickly to fall line skipping the shaping of top part. Chris changing edges but not direction of skis. That delays his turn with a nicer shape at the top
This is my number one bad habit lol. I really hate the phrase "early pressure" because it needs a corollary like early pressure but not a whole lot. Pressure should build throughout the first half of the turn and not reach a maximum till at least the apex. Forward extension movements along the ski also happen throughout the first half of the turn. I find just maintaining equal cuff pressure in the boots throughout the turn is enough to keep me forward enough but also not rushing things and over extending too early. Then I can focus more on pressure management, angulation, inclination, etc. I'm of course probably going to mess things up trying to get back into mogul skiing where aggressive forward extension moves can save your life XD.
Yes, you are perfectly right. Did you ever watch this video I made years ago: ruclips.net/video/ar-0gkoIfUY/видео.htmlsi=DUAxiVhst8VbZ81d Carving and mogul skiing are the best. And then close third..... CRUD :)
Good video, had this problem and got to the conclusion that i need to separate movements of the torso from the legs and keep a stable upper body, and try not to fight with large lean angles. I often find myself wanting to revert to an upright position, actually the internal ear's balancing system takes over too soon 😅
Hahaa.... yes, we often lean into the turn too much in hopes for those WC edge angles and end up standing on the inside ski with no edge angles at all. Not you, but me :). Cheers from snowy cold Finland, Tom
hello Tom, you said:"Build edge angles before you weight your skis with full force. Be PATIENT at the top of the turn." Good advice ! I would have said: Be PATIENT and ACTIVE at the top of the turn: engaging tip of the external ski (position forward), doing some ankle placement (with a lifting force, toe upward), some very little knee angulation, and above all some aligned muscular tension from external foot to inside shoulder. Patience is about...timing :)
Tous, hopefully people read your comments as they are much better than my own voice over! Yes, it is about timing. Actually the word "patience" has a component of "time" and "timing" built into it. Ted Ligety told me once that you should not "drop" into the turn. You should "push" yourself into the turn. This maybe true in the WC with GS skis but at my level and as a building block for nice carved turns at the intermediate level maybe not so much. Thanks for watching and for commenting, Cheers, Tom
One question, at the beginning of turn, do you have a moment while both skis are flat, and both legs have the same pressure? If yes, do we need to be patient for this moment or try to minimize as much as we can for this moment?
In theory you should release the outside ski at the end of the turn. This in combination with your skis crossing under you and out on the other side will cause imbalance and tip you in the direction of the lifted outside ski, into the new turn. So in theory both skis are not on snow in the transition. But this is not entirely true. Most of the time our skis are on the snow during the transition. That is why we call them rail road tracks. Looks like two railroad tracks in the snow. Check 3 Levels Of Carving or 3 Easy Carving Drills. And yes, you should be patient through out the transition as well. Or lets say, that is no fault anyway. Depending on your intent. Actually, being patient at edge change with both feet equally pressured is a great way to learn how to engage your skis into a carved turn. If you go from one turn to another you most likely try to muscle your skis into the fall line. This is wrong if you want to carve clean rail road tracks. Be patient, glide over the snow for a good while and then tip your skis on edge into the fall line. Cheers, Tom
Thanks for asking. The easiest way of describing the inclination (falling) part is to stand on both legs and then to turn left, lift the left foot up in the air and vice versa. Lifting the foot/ski up in the air creates an imbalance and you topple in the direction of the raised foot/ski. If you do that in combination with also angulating the effect is much more significant. Did I answer you question properly? Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 Hi Tom, you explained that in a nice simple way I can understand, will try that in five weeks time when I get to slide again! many thanks and really appreciate your response, a massive thank you for making these video's, you will never know how important they are to skiers who only get to ski once a year. THANK YOU.
Yes, let the pressure build up as a result of tipping them on edge. Dont try to pressure them too early after tipping. Think of it more as a "drop" than a "push". Drop that CoM. It also relates to "counter". If you are too square to the skis or you use too much knee drive at the start of the turn your will have trouble reaching high edge angles at apex. Also retraction transition help. Hope this helped, cheers, Tom.
Hey Tom, Guess what I just found out?? You and I have actually known each other for 12 years!! I just got off the phone with Rick and we were talking about how much I love your videos and how nice you were to me when I told you about my issues with being Autistic and the music issues because of that. He told me who you are. You will remember me. I was Bushido Princess!! I am so excited that TDK was you. 😀
Wow, kindness pays off after all :) So nice to connect after all these years. Please keep in touch in the commentary section of my videos or drop me a mail at tdk.skiracing@gmail.com. Cheers, Tom
I can see what a great tip this is, but it is probably too advanced for me. I feel like I need to change which leg gets the most pressure to start a turn and can't put that off...I'm much closer to beg/intermediate than even intermediate much less advanced.
Thanks TF for such great advice. I also use CARV. I have been testing it for a year now and found it to be a big help for me even if I havent explored it fully yet. Thanks for the tips on different modes. I will try out that exercise asap. Cheers, Tom
The answer to your question is no. Tom’s saying that you need to be patient and hold back on apply the pressure too early, thereby allowing the outside ski to get up on edge. Just try it out and see how your skis respond.
So true! I really love the moment when you let your skis sink down in the pow and just wait for the submerged phase with the skis gradually turning into the fall line. Powder and carving have a lot in common. More than people think. Its not as they are completely different techniques. Cheers, Tom
Stop the video right as it goes to 2:10. Your skis, and Chris's skis are about parallel. They are going in the same direction! But you are FLAT..and he is on edge. In other words, he is getting on edge really early RELATIVE TO THE FALL LINE. This allows him to build angles and loads smoothly. More on that later. You however do not really load the skis till about 2:12. And when you pressure your skis, they are only about 20 degrees before the fall line. So Chris gets on high ANGLES earlier, but then builds LOADS gradually. You start late, and go from flat to high angles all at once. You get on high angles late, and build loads FAST. This shifts the loading of your skis to later in the turn. You also load them harder, and get more pop, which actually disrupts things. Look how you are coming off the ground. If you were to ski ice, and Chris were ski ice, I bet he would have MUCH better edge grip, even if you developed higher angles. This is because he is building LOADS smoothly. But WHY are loads on Chris's skis building so slow, and why are yours building fast. It has NOTHING to do with technique. This is where I disagree with your instruction here. You can not "choose" to put the ski on edge bu not load it. The real difference is how Chris and you are using GRAVITY differently. The reason that Chris's skis do not load quickly is gravity is pulling him the same direction as he is trying to turn. Gravity is taking load off his skis. This is not a result of technique. It is simply WHERE he is starting the turn. Try the opposite and see what happens. Float till you are directly in the fall line...THEN turn! It is a disaster. The ski will overload, you will get pushed back, and they the skis will get away from you. Turning down the hill early and using gravity is the key to everything. *It results in smoother loading. This allows you to maintain better edge grip on hard surfaces *It is also the key to controlling speed.... Use gravity. Don't fight it.
Thanks for your great comment. You are absolutely right. Chris builds load later in the turn. However, I think that building loads slow and smoothly is technique. Actually a very central part as we can see from the video that it plays a major role. If you compare my two runs to each other at 4:00 you can see the difference I made in my own skiing when I also delayed the turn. Or? Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 Well...my only perspective is my own skiing...I am not a coach of others. For me, WHEN I get on the new set of edges was the single biggest change in my skiing. It made everything so much smoother. I am able to attain higher grip on hard snow, with no real technique changes...just timing. But for me, it was not patience...it was actually pushing to get the edge change earlier and quicker. Everyone is different...and differnt people people may use totally different ways of thinking to get their body in what to do what works.
@@shooter7a pushing into the turn is a very good analogy. You should not just "drop" into the turn. You should push. However, start pushing on skis still not in the fall line. For me "timing" is also a vital part of technique. Its actually one of the most important components just like it is when you are bouncing on a trampoline. You have very good insight and thanks for sharing. Cheers, Tom
Rushing movements is not good technique. Patience and RELAXING are key. I suspect most of us skiers at one time assumed movements need to be fast to ski fast, and that’s exactly the opposite.
@@Triggerboy62 I was not trying to be mean. If you can do freeze frame and explanations (I know you have some but if you use simple language and show the entire cycle pls)
I’ve never seen and heard an explanation so clear an inspirational about the edge angel timing. Super lesson, I learn a lllot watching this video. Thank you so much 🙏
Great to hear! So nice of you to drop such a positive comment. Thank you for watching, Cheers :)
Have a look at the direction of your head compared to Chris in the beginning of each turn. I think the reason why he is able to lean more into each bend is that his focus lies exactly half a turn in front of where he is. It does look like your focus (direction of your head) is couple of meter in front of you. It forces you to start each turn with your skis (and not your center of gravity), which in turn does not give you time to get low enough.
Suggestion for coming videos: make a series of how rotation plays a part in skiing and how to control it. Try to ski down a hill with a big backpack (doesn't have to be super heavy). The backpack will after each mid turn, try to continue the rotation you have made the first half of the turn. The only solution to solve this in a consistent way is to focus on a point half a turn in front of you. Example: when you pass a gate, your forcus point is passing the next gate. Look at any professional skier i slow motion.
What a great comment Huschitify. Thank you. That's a great observation and finding. Chris keeps his head pointing more down the hill. I hope people read these comments as they hold so much value. I will get back to you with this asap. Thanks for watching, Cheers :)
Very good comment. It really helps looking further ahead commits the balance moves center of mass faster.
Nice video. Kili Weibel just covered the same subject where he said you should put the most pressure on the outside ski at the end of the turn in order to be able to complete it. It is nice to see the same subject covered several times from slightly different angles.
Thanks for the info! I will try to look for that video. And thanks for watching. Yes, every content creator on YT has a different angle on things so great to get several different inputs. Cheers, Tom
where is that video of Kili Weible saying that? I would love to see it... thanks a lot
Has been following and watching all your videos, and some videos I have watched over 10 times to reflect and internalize.
So sweet of you to leave such a nice comment. And glad to hear that you actually watch lots of my videos as there are many of them that never really caught on and got a lot of views but are still full of valuable content. Thanks once more and thanks for watching. Cheers, Tom
Thanks Tom I appreciate it. You did graciously review a video of me last year which I really appreciate and suggested I work on keeping my outside shoulder down to help tighten the radius. I’ll work on that and send you another!
Great, be sure to use the old e-mail thread so I have all your videos in one place! Cheers, Tom
Thanks Tom very insightful.
This will really help me I feel.
You're very welcome, thanks for watching and good if it may be of help for you. Cheers, Tom
always to the point! congrats!
Appreciate it!
Hi Triggerboy.
To improve the dynymic during transission, i like the following practise.
Both pools in one hand (outside ski side), during Transmission throw both pools in front of you to the other hand.
I am looking forward what you are saing after tryer.
Your videos are always a lot of fun and interesting.
Best regards from Germany
Great stuff! Can't wait to get out there and work on it. Thanks
Good luck!
VERY VERY HELPFUL!!!!!!!!! thanx for sharing!!!!!
You are so welcome! Thanks for watching :)
Grate remainder for all skiers espacialy at the time when we start skiing after off season brake time. For me it was grate add on from goggle tip and carving speed control videos.
Luckly for me I live near indorr snow arena, so can keep practicing all year round.
Thanks for sharing! Lucky you. Living next door to a indoor skiing arena. I have actually never skied in one.
Im stuck watching my waterskis hang on the wall.... with these gas prices there will be no skiing this summer.
Clear as a bell! Excellent explanation and video work!!
Thank you very much!
In the new season coming back on the same subject when I delay this early pressure, I feel like I free fall with my mass into the turn after edge change and if you get it right all you need to do is a minor adjustment to pressure from your leg so you fully in control of your turn.
Exactly. You got it right. Cheers, Tom
Spot on analysis. Patience at the top of the turn.
Thanks! T
Thanks Tom great video. I’ve wondered if you were on 157s and here you showed you ski both. I’m 46 and thinking about dropping down to 157 (5’10, 100kg)
Thank you and thanks for watching. I would not go back to 157. 165 is much more stable and has better edge hold. The only real advantage with the shorter skis is a tighter turn radius. However, that is not really a great advantage anymore as ski racing has hanged. It used to be very important to carve the whole turn through but that already is outdated. Or maybe it always was. Dont get me wrong, it is still important be able to arc turns but nowadays you pick a ski that carves the more open and wider turns cleanly, while tighter turns and on steeps you start with a small pivot. And when I look at the jr we are coaching, as soon as they jump on 165's they fly. The most important thing is to have big edge angles and well tuned edges.
But Im handing out advice without really knowing anything about you. If you do not race then a shorter ski can be fun on short hills or when coaching kids with short skis. Tell me more about yourself or send a video to tdk.skiracing@gmail.com.
Cheers, Tom
I also think you point out something that is confusing to many, myself included - the concept that not all turns need to be linked carve-to-carve at all times 100%. I think this is where the term “short turns” comes in, which I think of as basically brushed turns or at least the top of the turn is brushed, vs purely carved turns where the edge is engaged while the stance ski is still “uphill” and progressively brought to pressure through the turn - is this correct?
Wish you were my ski coach. Great videos. Thank you!!
Hi, so nice of you. Thank you. Cheers, Tom
This Clip is amazing!
Thanks, and thanks for watching. Happy Holidays, T
I think the difference between Chris and you is what Harald Harb describes as initiating the turn at the top of the C shape of the turn, when the skis are still pointing away from the fall line, away from the direction of the center of mass. I think you are initiating the turn late, compared to Chris. Chris is initiating the tipping to the new edges at the top of the turn, while his skis are still pointing to the trees at the side of the piste. Freeze Chris at 1:09. That is the difference I think. Skis pointing away from the fall line and he’s carving on the new inside edges at the top of the C.
Exactly! Cheers, Tom
It's not only the top of the turn. How you finish with added bending and tipping is the key to the lower "C" finish. If the skier stays stiff or pushes after the apex, you only achieve the ski side cut curve. Adding angle through giving in and adding tipping is the crux few skiers achieve. Keep in mind here that squaring the hips kills all of the tipping ability.
Tom, your video came up in my RUclips feed again, a year later. Rewatching it, I have another thought about it. Extending the duration in transition can result in lowering the stance at the top of the turn. The benefit of being more compact is more dynamic skiing, because starting from a flexed outside ankle allows for the progressive extension of the outside leg heading toward the apex of the turn. // Marshall
Wow, nice to hear older videos are coming up on your feed. Yes, compact transition allows for extending :)
thats an awesome tip!
Glad you think so! Thanks for watching. T
Great to see your new video! New intro is fun))
Yay, thank you! Getting a bit tired of the country rock intro. Maybe I should vary it a bit more often. Cheers, Tom
head to head very nice
Thank you! Cheers!
From what I see The main difference is that Chris “topples” into the turn, as Tom Gellie would say. It is related to the idea of Richie Berger who suggests that creating edge angle can be done by moving ze feet away from ze body”. Combine the two….
Yes, exactly. Cheers, Tom
Another great tip, thank you. Great timing, we’re about to head up to New Hampshire for another weekend of skiing. This will be echoing inside my head whilst I try to put this and all the other great tips into practice :-)
Sounds great! Have a nice trip. Let me know how it went and if you have any questions just ask. Here or email me at tdk.skiracing@gamail.com
Many people neglect their need for speed when carving. You need to want that speed maintained through the arc. Most intermediates and advanced skiers are still apprehensive about excess speed for good reasons using turning strictly to slow down, It hurts to fall. Learning to trust your equipment and understanding the forces at work help reduce apprehension about speed, accelerations and seemingly gravitic forces in dynamic skiing.
Not only carving but any form of skiing. You need speed to turn. That is the basic rule. That's the reason you need to develop skills to turn. To stay in control. And, you also need to "grow" into speed. That is the reason why we start any session with basic slow wedging or RR-tracks drills. Carving is a high level technique and generates high speeds. Cheers, Tom
Turn "Up the hill" to slow down or control speed = full-time carving.
Look up a picture of "ribbon candy".
Beautiful Tom
Thank you! Cheers!
To be more precise, you start turn earlier by pointing skis more to the outside rather than well down the fall line. That lets skis get on higher edges while your upper body travels at more direct line. Only from that point on you can start to pressure skis to perform quick sporty turn.
Hi Janis!! So nice to see your comment here. 💙
(BP from SV/bb)
Yes, that is how you do it. Also watch my Google ski video. Same concept explained a bit differently. Thats why we want to be gentle on our skis at the top of the turn. Build edge angles before engaging them at full force. Cheers, Tom
Excellent content . Good job 👏
Thank you so much 😀
Please make a video on SL and GS and how to clear the pin gates effectively
Good ide. I have had this request many times and its on my to do list. Now, get on with it right? Hahaa... hopefully I can make one in the near future. Cheers, Tom
Note that Chris has higher hip angulation versus Tom, and the resultant stance is for the uphill ski to lead in height (compared to the downhill ski) and ski tips are more forward for the inside ski versus ski tips for the outside ski.
For several years "railroad" track skiing has been the new technique, where the inside ski is more weighted and the inside knee is steered to match the downhill ski. The resultant ski track is a set of railroad tracks. Note that when you see this type of skiing, the turns are quite shallow (i.e. not complete turns where the skis finish across the hill) and certainly not on steep terrain.
Try standing in ski boots alone on flat terrain while pushing your knees into the hill (actually it is hip angulation as knees cannot angulate laterally) and you will see that both legs of the skier are matched side by side. Now try this same stance on inclined terrain. To stay in balance your hips must go into the hill for angulation and the uphill ski (boot) must lead and it is higher than the downhill ski (boot). In a static stance such as this, you might feel out of balance which is to be expected and fall down, as there isn't any centrifugal force generated at zero velocity. Remember velocity has a speed component and a direction component. It is the centrifugal force that bends the skis into reverse camber (i.e. ski angulation) and to combat this force the whole body must incline (i.e. banked turns), or the hips must move inside alongside with knee angulation to compensate.
The key idea is that the uphill ski must lead for any inclined terrain. The old A-frame stance (i.e. Mahre turn) had the inside ski not angulated or pressured like the downhill ski. The Mahre turn sure made for some "knock-kneed" skiers. If skiers are still locked into A-frame skiing then they need to experiment with canting.
Tom, what separates old guys like us compared to Chris, is that we don't have the strength or flexibility to drop our hips to touch the ground. Notice that old skiers are much more upright compared to younger skiers. This is why core strength and flexibility are so important to older skiers.
Thanks Landwy for your great insight. Everything you say is true. The inside ski leads more on steeper terrain or when skier inclines into the turn. Yes, Chris is more flexible, stronger and muscles more explosive. We have to settle for more moderate edge angles and skiing in general. That's how we age. Sooner or later :)
Tom, Tom Gellie and Sam Robertson also talk about the steps being inclination, then angulation. I’ve played with it myself to see the difference firsthand. I find that if I start to counter rotate too early (before reaching the apex of the turn) that I’m adding steering of the skis toward the fall line. The result, as you noted, is that I’m not allowing enough time for the inside edge of my outside ski to achieve its highest edge angle. What you showed so well (by using the overlay) was the tightening of the bottom of the turn by being patient. But the notion that achieving a higher edge angle produces a tighter turning radius is actually nothing new. For instance, Lito Tejada Flores was teaching this decades ago so it seems to me, as an avid student of the sport, that we keep “rediscovering” what we’ve known all along. //Marshall
You are perfectly right. There is little new in the world of skiing. But the industry needs to have new stuff in order to sell more products or services. So we end up in the belief that old school is BS and this bling bling device or peace of gear or technique will turn you into a WC skiracer in a blink of an eye. I have no such ambitions so I stick to what I found works. Lito made some great books and videos back in the day and all that stuff is still valid. Hats off to all those great skiers. Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 Tom, I think your comments are spot on. // Marshall
@@Triggerboy62 are you referring to c**v as the device? I almost bought one recently but I'm still hesitating... Thx!
Great !!! But still many ski coaches tell the guys to push and press the front part of the ski on top of the turn ...
That is partly true. However, if we look at carving technique basics, the skis turn when tipped and edged. Not when weighted or pushed. Sometimes referred to as "passive weight transfer" where turnforces create the pressure, not the you pushing or perssing the skitips. Wanna turn tighter, tip more. That said, from a very low position at transition you should push yourself into the turn. Racing technique in certain situations.
Totally, and it's especially important to be patient in GS so your don't start leaning over and getting on the inside ski
Exactly. It happens to me often that after skiing with SL skis and I put my GS skis on that I lean into the turn to aggressively and crash. I was actually skiing GS skis today for the first time this season and did not loose my balance to the inside. Because I was patient at the start of the turn :)
Thanks for watching and leaving such a great comment. Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 I only say it because I fall into that trap a lot haha. I love freeskiing on my slalom skis because they're so quick so I have to slow down when I am on GS skis. It's easy for me to lean over and get on my back seat and inside ski.
For those who'd try this without any background:
Dropping in a turn is possible because the ski is anchored into the snow, keeping you from drifting.
Your angular momentum prevents you from falling.
You need to have legs strong enough to hold the pressure. This pressure increases with speed and tighter turn radius.
Also remember that you gain speed when the ski's flat on the snow :)
Which is probably why Chris builds up more speed and has the same rhythm despite have overall larger loops
Thanks for your tips and analysis. Yes, carving is quite difficult and your input here is very good. Tom
Stacking action (counterbary) keeps you upright. The principle of least action is required for efficiency. Many try too hard and fail to engage skis design properly. Excess motion is as bad as static positions in attaining the next level of excitation.
Really useful video. Very helpful. Seems like in general the term "early edging" often leads to some confusion. "Early" compared to what?... the end of the last turn?... the fall line?... something else?
Yes, exactly. Thanks for watching. Tom
I have very much enjoyed your videos especially about carving, since I am a newbie and trying to learn skiing and carving for the first time.
Can you speak to the question of distance between the skis - shoulder width or more wider or very narrow? I see on the mountain here people skiing and carving with the skis close together which makes me feel very unstable when I try it. So I end up with skis wide apart which causes the skis to track in different directions when on edge.
Thank you so much for your amazing instructions and explanations
Thanks for watching and asking such a question. If you are a beginner then go to my playlists and look through the beginner instruction videos. Carving would be out of your scope at this right moment but as soon as you nail those wedge drills and are able to balance over your outside ski and turn parallel then you will be able to close your stance. But you should ski with your skis as far apart or as narrow as comfortable. I have over the years varied my stance width and lately ended up in a very close stance and been instructed at clinics and coaching seminars to widen my stance a bit. It comes and goes. If you have video of yourself skiing please send it to me and I will comment. Cheers, Tom
I think we have to make a difference between „normal“ carving and Race-carving. For an average skier or someone, who is not aiming for Race-skiing, it is important to keep the knees more under the hip. Because the way back takes too long to be in a neutral position early enough in the transition. Consequences: having the COM in the back and over the inside ski. So, I am very careful to tell skiers to push the skis outwards…
Hi, thanks for watching and leaving a comment. Not sure what you are saying in your last sentence but I agree with you that recreational skiers should not use their knees to create edge angles. That is actually the wrong way to do it for advanced skiers as well. The knees are used only at the end of the turn for extra edge pressure. At the end when you are saying "pushing your skis outwards" Im kind of thinking the other way around, dropping myself to the inside of the turn to get my torso away from over the skis. Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 It would be easier to explain it in german 😂 I am a „normal“ skiing teacher, not a race trainer. And a lot skiers have the same problem: they push the feet outwards at the end of the turn. So my approach is to teach to keep the knees not right under, but more below the hip and to move the skis back under the hip towards the end of the turn. If the skier is able to do this correctly, the next step is to lengthen the outside leg more and more towards the forces - and at least learn to carve.
Hello,
At the same time, it should be noted that Chris rides more in a circle and the skis are pointing across the slope at all times. You Tom, on the other hand, were quicker to steer your skis down the slope. The question is which ride will be more effective on the gates? Let's remember that Ted Ligetty skied beautifully all arcs on the edges and won, but Marcel Hirsher, who was skiing more forcefully down the slope, was the best after that. I think it all has to be balanced to be the fastest on the gate. Greetings from Poland
Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment. Hahahaa, this is an easy question you have, which method is faster? Answer: Chris :) :) :)
İ think the reason you are rushing the turn is not about edging or pressuring early. İn the first run you are adding a bit of twist at the top of the turn. That gets you quickly to fall line skipping the shaping of top part. Chris changing edges but not direction of skis. That delays his turn with a nicer shape at the top
Good observation. Cheers, Tom
What skis do you use ? Brand, length and waist
We are currently on Atomic skis. 165 cm S9 FIS. Length 165cm and width 65mm I think.
This is my number one bad habit lol. I really hate the phrase "early pressure" because it needs a corollary like early pressure but not a whole lot. Pressure should build throughout the first half of the turn and not reach a maximum till at least the apex. Forward extension movements along the ski also happen throughout the first half of the turn. I find just maintaining equal cuff pressure in the boots throughout the turn is enough to keep me forward enough but also not rushing things and over extending too early. Then I can focus more on pressure management, angulation, inclination, etc.
I'm of course probably going to mess things up trying to get back into mogul skiing where aggressive forward extension moves can save your life XD.
Yes, you are perfectly right. Did you ever watch this video I made years ago:
ruclips.net/video/ar-0gkoIfUY/видео.htmlsi=DUAxiVhst8VbZ81d
Carving and mogul skiing are the best. And then close third..... CRUD :)
Good video, had this problem and got to the conclusion that i need to separate movements of the torso from the legs and keep a stable upper body, and try not to fight with large lean angles.
I often find myself wanting to revert to an upright position, actually the internal ear's balancing system takes over too soon 😅
Hahaa.... yes, we often lean into the turn too much in hopes for those WC edge angles and end up standing on the inside ski with no edge angles at all. Not you, but me :). Cheers from snowy cold Finland, Tom
hello Tom, you said:"Build edge angles before you weight your skis with full force. Be PATIENT at the top of the turn." Good advice !
I would have said: Be PATIENT and ACTIVE at the top of the turn: engaging tip of the external ski (position forward), doing some ankle placement (with a lifting force, toe upward), some very little knee angulation, and above all some aligned muscular tension from external foot to inside shoulder.
Patience is about...timing :)
Tous, hopefully people read your comments as they are much better than my own voice over! Yes, it is about timing. Actually the word "patience" has a component of "time" and "timing" built into it. Ted Ligety told me once that you should not "drop" into the turn. You should "push" yourself into the turn. This maybe true in the WC with GS skis but at my level and as a building block for nice carved turns at the intermediate level maybe not so much. Thanks for watching and for commenting, Cheers, Tom
One question, at the beginning of turn, do you have a moment while both skis are flat, and both legs have the same pressure? If yes, do we need to be patient for this moment or try to minimize as much as we can for this moment?
In theory you should release the outside ski at the end of the turn. This in combination with your skis crossing under you and out on the other side will cause imbalance and tip you in the direction of the lifted outside ski, into the new turn. So in theory both skis are not on snow in the transition. But this is not entirely true. Most of the time our skis are on the snow during the transition. That is why we call them rail road tracks. Looks like two railroad tracks in the snow. Check 3 Levels Of Carving or 3 Easy Carving Drills. And yes, you should be patient through out the transition as well. Or lets say, that is no fault anyway. Depending on your intent. Actually, being patient at edge change with both feet equally pressured is a great way to learn how to engage your skis into a carved turn. If you go from one turn to another you most likely try to muscle your skis into the fall line. This is wrong if you want to carve clean rail road tracks. Be patient, glide over the snow for a good while and then tip your skis on edge into the fall line. Cheers, Tom
Could you explain how you fall into the turn, what body action is used as I see this as a fundamental part of carving, do you just lean in? thank you
Thanks for asking. The easiest way of describing the inclination (falling) part is to stand on both legs and then to turn left, lift the left foot up in the air and vice versa. Lifting the foot/ski up in the air creates an imbalance and you topple in the direction of the raised foot/ski. If you do that in combination with also angulating the effect is much more significant. Did I answer you question properly? Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 Hi Tom, you explained that in a nice simple way I can understand, will try that in five weeks time when I get to slide again! many thanks and really appreciate your response, a massive thank you for making these video's, you will never know how important they are to skiers who only get to ski once a year. THANK YOU.
What do you mean by pressuring the skis. Thought you let the pressure build after tipping the skis.
Yes, let the pressure build up as a result of tipping them on edge. Dont try to pressure them too early after tipping. Think of it more as a "drop" than a "push". Drop that CoM. It also relates to "counter". If you are too square to the skis or you use too much knee drive at the start of the turn your will have trouble reaching high edge angles at apex. Also retraction transition help. Hope this helped, cheers, Tom.
Hey Tom,
Guess what I just found out?? You and I have actually known each other for 12 years!! I just got off the phone with Rick and we were talking about how much I love your videos and how nice you were to me when I told you about my issues with being Autistic and the music issues because of that. He told me who you are. You will remember me. I was Bushido Princess!! I am so excited that TDK was you. 😀
Wow, kindness pays off after all :)
So nice to connect after all these years. Please keep in touch in the commentary section of my videos or drop me a mail at tdk.skiracing@gmail.com. Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 I am so happy to be in touch with you!! I will email you for sure! 💚
I can see what a great tip this is, but it is probably too advanced for me. I feel like I need to change which leg gets the most pressure to start a turn and can't put that off...I'm much closer to beg/intermediate than even intermediate much less advanced.
Thanks TF for such great advice. I also use CARV. I have been testing it for a year now and found it to be a big help for me even if I havent explored it fully yet. Thanks for the tips on different modes. I will try out that exercise asap. Cheers, Tom
The answer to your question is no. Tom’s saying that you need to be patient and hold back on apply the pressure too early, thereby allowing the outside ski to get up on edge. Just try it out and see how your skis respond.
Thanks for stepping in with such a great comment. You nailed it. Cheers, Tom
Yes, patience at the top of the turn-also helpful in powder.
So true! I really love the moment when you let your skis sink down in the pow and just wait for the submerged phase with the skis gradually turning into the fall line. Powder and carving have a lot in common. More than people think. Its not as they are completely different techniques. Cheers, Tom
you can read some comments there (linked with this topic):
ruclips.net/video/X-sLzO5uOsE/видео.html
In Italian! Fill me in. T
Stop the video right as it goes to 2:10. Your skis, and Chris's skis are about parallel. They are going in the same direction! But you are FLAT..and he is on edge. In other words, he is getting on edge really early RELATIVE TO THE FALL LINE. This allows him to build angles and loads smoothly. More on that later. You however do not really load the skis till about 2:12. And when you pressure your skis, they are only about 20 degrees before the fall line. So Chris gets on high ANGLES earlier, but then builds LOADS gradually. You start late, and go from flat to high angles all at once. You get on high angles late, and build loads FAST. This shifts the loading of your skis to later in the turn. You also load them harder, and get more pop, which actually disrupts things. Look how you are coming off the ground.
If you were to ski ice, and Chris were ski ice, I bet he would have MUCH better edge grip, even if you developed higher angles. This is because he is building LOADS smoothly.
But WHY are loads on Chris's skis building so slow, and why are yours building fast. It has NOTHING to do with technique. This is where I disagree with your instruction here. You can not "choose" to put the ski on edge bu not load it. The real difference is how Chris and you are using GRAVITY differently. The reason that Chris's skis do not load quickly is gravity is pulling him the same direction as he is trying to turn. Gravity is taking load off his skis. This is not a result of technique. It is simply WHERE he is starting the turn.
Try the opposite and see what happens. Float till you are directly in the fall line...THEN turn! It is a disaster. The ski will overload, you will get pushed back, and they the skis will get away from you. Turning down the hill early and using gravity is the key to everything. *It results in smoother loading. This allows you to maintain better edge grip on hard surfaces *It is also the key to controlling speed....
Use gravity. Don't fight it.
Thanks for your great comment. You are absolutely right. Chris builds load later in the turn. However, I think that building loads slow and smoothly is technique. Actually a very central part as we can see from the video that it plays a major role. If you compare my two runs to each other at 4:00 you can see the difference I made in my own skiing when I also delayed the turn. Or? Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 Well...my only perspective is my own skiing...I am not a coach of others. For me, WHEN I get on the new set of edges was the single biggest change in my skiing. It made everything so much smoother. I am able to attain higher grip on hard snow, with no real technique changes...just timing. But for me, it was not patience...it was actually pushing to get the edge change earlier and quicker. Everyone is different...and differnt people people may use totally different ways of thinking to get their body in what to do what works.
@@shooter7a pushing into the turn is a very good analogy. You should not just "drop" into the turn. You should push. However, start pushing on skis still not in the fall line. For me "timing" is also a vital part of technique. Its actually one of the most important components just like it is when you are bouncing on a trampoline. You have very good insight and thanks for sharing. Cheers, Tom
my car wing :)
I need a new car :)
can I come train with you please? :)
Yes, email me at tdk.skiracing(a)gmail.com :)
Suomi Finlandia!
FIN :)
Rushing movements is not good technique. Patience and RELAXING are key. I suspect most of us skiers at one time assumed movements need to be fast to ski fast, and that’s exactly the opposite.
Great point. Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, relaxed slow movements and then lightning fast reactions regarding balance and stacking forces.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍✌✌✌✌✌✌✌✌✌✌✌✌✌✌✌
Thanks :)
Cheers, T
did not understand anything.....
How can I help?
@@Triggerboy62 I was not trying to be mean. If you can do freeze frame and explanations (I know you have some but if you use simple language and show the entire cycle pls)