In sweden we don't have a big problem with antibiotic resistance, but there is a reason for it, in countries with more open views on antibiotics there are also bigger issues with resistance and I have seen what the result of that can be so I have mixed feelings about our stance but it is aimed for what is best for the community and there is a fine line to walk
I have a friend from the Pakistani elite (his dad was leading their creation of their nuclear weapons). He lives here in Sweden and is highly educated. He often makes outrageous claims about Pakistani mentality and science. The surprising thing is that I thought he was a fool but learned that he was a smart guy with shitty information. He said that he got a shot every year. This was some type of peneceline that was supposed to kill everything bad that he had in his body. I told him that no such drug existed and did my best to find evidence for my claim. I quickly learned that it does exist. In Sweden it is used if your bowels burst or if you get an injury that is likely to kill you because of the massive amount of bacteria added to your system. In Pakistan they give this stuff to everyone that is rich/important or the offspring of such a person. My reality isn't the same as theirs. Everyone have a perfect hindsight but everything actually comes from statistics. Learn honest statistics to understand the problem.
and thats a problem, dosctors do not take into account - diets (very antibiotic reach food, even if it is different antibiotic) and foreigners. Basiclaly foreigners are treated wrongly in Scandivania - the doctors do no care they can bring different types of diseases or be ready exposed to some antibiotics. I remember being prescribed drug that was withdrawn 20 years ago I an country where I got sick...
Swedens stance on antibiotics causes people who for one or another reason do not want or have the possibility to go to the doctor to not get any help, its like they live in a time before the invention of these medicines. That is how I have seen this subject play out in real life. In many instances Swedish society threat its citizen like little children.
Hmm... I'm from Finland, and while we don't issue antibiotics that much. Probably in case of something like this, I would 100% except some, I had root sawed off as part of root canal operation that was infected, it was small surgery, and I definitely got some antibiotics. And actually the infection was pretty much gone after root canals that were done before actual surgery. So really those antibiotics were for the surgery. Honestly antibiotic resistance is mostly coming from farming and very excessive use in some non western countries anyways. I don't think it should be issue at all if you are issued few antibiotics after surgery.
@@mukkaar like I said I do have mixed feelings about it. Here I would think most cases are imported. I work in an animalhospital and we try to be restrictive as well but within reason. Anyhow howdy neighbour.
A couple of years ago there was a huge issue with Fentanyl Overdoses regarding people who had depressions. this is mostly the reason for the aversion of prescribing opiod painkillers for Swedish medical society. The antibiotica resistance is also something that is a massive issue in the World, Especially regarding cattle and live food production. Sweden is probably the only country who takes this as the serious issue it is, For example Denmark and Germany usually premedicate cattle if only one animal has been sick whils swedish cattle usually gets antibiatoca as a last resort. This means that the antibiotics are about 80-90% lower than the average eu country if i remember right. Sadly this has an negative aversion for us regular patients in Sweden when it comes to diseases such as Lyme Disease where many of us have had to travel to Germany and even USA to get adequate treatment. The there is the fact that our hospitals very much preffer us to cantact them if we have a minor complication rather than prescribe medication or painkillers. both sides has pros and cons in this regards. Best regards. Also i would like to say that Private clinics in Sweden can be a little hit and miss. Some of them are quite good with highly competent personel, but some are really bad. Folktandvården are genrally best equipped to handle dental works and the regular specialists on the hospitals like the Dental specialists on Mölndal hospital in Gothenburg are usually the bests in the country. Often the Specialist Doctors have a privet clinic and work on the regular hospital.
@@Swede_4_DragonBeliever i just got information about a 5 hour surgery and i'll only be given alvedon after. this is a surgery that will take up to a year to recover from. sweden is absurd.
@warwarneverchanges4937 yeeeeezzzzz we be zufferiiiing..thjis why our land Zweeden is named. Ohh, be right back, baby need diaper change! Where wazzz iii...?
i'm so sorry you had to go through that, but I am glad you were here in Sweden and able to experience the wonderful healthcare. I moved to Stockholm in the beginning of the 90s from Los Angeles. I didn't think much about the healthcare system when I came here but now that I am in my 70s I am so grateful for the wonderful, professional, and affordable care my Swedish husband and I receive. We are both very healthy for our age but the times we needed healthcare, its been amazing. I feel blessed to live here. I've heard some of my older Swedish friends say healthcare is not as good as it used to be, and I can't even imagine how it could be any better. I enjoyed your video and think you're a real sweetheart. krya på dig❤
These are the one of the reasons why I think the winner of the general last election in the US will be a disaster if he wants to take, or as he says "replace", away the ACA as he says he wants to do. Greetings from a half-American in nw. Stockholm.
It took a turn for the worse when they started selling out to venture capitalists, unlike the state they have to make a profit. My mother worked at two hospitals here and saw it first hand on both, they cut down staff and investments into new technology to increase profits. So it took longer and longer to get an appointment, they have less time with each patient and they can't offer the same quality as in the past (compared to other countries). For things less covered like eyes and teeth then Thailand at least used to be popular, the quality is top notch and the price low, so you're basically getting a free vacation for the price. 🌞
I am on the edge of old and often hear 'it's not like the old days...' but what has really happened is that now we are old we need more care and most people get more cantankerous about their frailities but project it onto the healthcare system
In Europe in a hospital you're not a 'customer', you're a patient! There's no so-called customer service, you're just treated as a patient, the best they can.
I've been an RN in five states in US and we call patients like they are, patients, and don't use the term customer. Maybe there are some places that do, but in a country of 340 + million people there are differences in different parts of the country. You can't expect everything to be the same.
I’ve been a patient a lot and have had a bunch of surgeries due to a congenital spinal cord injury. During 3 or 4 hospital stays I’ve been tested for multi resistant bacteria because some other patient was sick and had it. I’ve also had morphine pills and strong pain killers a lot and have felt how easy it would be to slip into an addiction. This is why it’s important not to over medicate.
So interesting, thank you for sharing. I am a retired dentist, and I had basically the same routines, with antibiotics and painkillers. BUT my many years of experience as general dentist out in the rural parts of Northern Sweden, also made me do things differently. Impacted wisdom teeth surgery - extremely painful, prescribed small dose morphine for the first days, after that paracetamol + ibumetin. Risk for spreading bacteria due to infected cyst - depending on what I saw during surgery: most probably antibiotics. Already signs of infection prior to surgery ? - prophylactic antibiotics. I never prescribed antibiotics as a routine, only if a patient had fever due to infected tooth. And, if I could avoid it, no performing such surgery near the weekend. I am. glad that you were treated with kindness and respect!
Wish you a speedy recovery and that you will feel better for each day. Glad and proud to hear of your positive experience of hospital care in Sweden. I can only agree with you. Have been hospitalised, been through major surgeries and treatments during the past 3 years and I have nothing but love for all the people I’ve met during these years. Their excellent care is a big part of me being able to get through it all. ❤
In the United States, you are a patient as well. I was a patient in Germany and once hospitalized in France and the best care I ever received was in the United States. Wouldn’t want to be a patient anywhere else!
Actually, I'm trying to teach totally careless and respectless health 'care' workers in germany, that their patients are actually customers. They are not to be treated over their heads or against their will or seen as a pet to offer some food to when its convenient. The germans really have to learn to value their patients and see that they in fact are customers, who don't have to go to their hospital, but can choose another one, as this one fails to provide good care. The only problem is, that the next hospital usually is affected by the same rotten mentality.
I remember a Swedish police officer once claim to an American police officer that arrested suspects in Sweden are "customers", and I feel like this was an accidental mistake from a non-native speaker, because nobody in Sweden calls suspects "kunder" ("customers"); a suspect would be called a "misstänkt", or a "misstänkt person".
I did spend 5 days in the ER after dislocating my shoulder, had 2 surgery's and loads of x-rays and visits to doctor/rehab and such, cost me like $300 for it all (Sweden), and i would agree with not giving antibiotics for everything, resistant bacteria's is a serious threat.
As a Spanish person living in Malmö for 18 months and having lived in other countries, I can only say that the Swedish health service is the best I have had the opportunity to try. Every time I have gone to the hospital I have always felt very well. I'm so glad you're feeling better, best wishes from Malmö.
That's both nice and disheartening to hear. As a malmöit myself I think the health care here is generally not great. Except when I was in the ER and ICU. They were amazing there. But for minor things, and worst of them all, psychiatry? Absolutely awful.
I moved to Sweden from Hungary 2009 as a 19 year-old. I havent had the "chance" to try the Hungarian hospitals as I was young and healthy. But 3 years ago I fell sick and in the hospital in Sweden they discovered colon cancer that had spread to various places in my abdomen. I had an acute surgery first followed by a planned surgery. During the planned surgery they used a method that, as I had heard, doesn't even exist in the USA because it is so expensive. They basically poured warmed cytostatics in the abdomen and sew it up. They then had to poke four holes on the sides of my abdomen to let the cytostatic fluid drain during the following days. The nurses told me that the operation and treatment I got was the toughest that existed and had i been older or less physically fit then it would not have been possible to undergo it as I would have died during the procedure.
I guess that move in 2009 saved your life. It’s strange how we make decisions every day, without knowing which consequences they can have even many years later 😊 Hope you are well and cancer free now ☺️
@galaxia4709 And how much does it cost? Of course it exist in the US, we are talking about that she got her treatment paid by all taxpayers in Sweden. Do you do that too in the US?
@@galaxia4709 Her treatment cost about $650 per year for her in total. The rest is covered via Swedish taxpayers. Including: All Surgeries. Radiation. Consults with cancer specialists. Hospital stays. ALL medications. Transport in ambulance when needed. Rehabilitation. Psychological help. Etc etc.
I really appreciate that! Every day is better. I have a follow up in two weeks with the jaw surgeon. 2 weeks more of antibiotics. The CT showed ongoing inflammation but that the infection is at bay. The treatment for inflammation is the same as infection... antibiotics. So I am still on Penicillin.
@@becurious2000 it is interesting how it is a bit different here in Norway, I had oral surgery pretty similar to you, impacted wisdom teeth, but i only did one at a time and had to wait 6 months for the other, so as my manidible would not break, i got an antibiotics course of 7-10 days, both times, along with a 50 pack with low grade vicodin (palgrin forte), so i find it weird you didn't get at least ABs after the surgery.
I'm not in the dental field, but I am an infection biology masters student here in sweden. From what I've been taught so far, the true is that more and more bacteria will become resistant to more and more antibitics as it's a trend that's been seen with many bacteria, especially for bacteria that are commonly associated with many different infections. For example staphylococcus aureus is a common bacteria in the micro flora in multiple tissues on us humans, but a smaller portion of the species have become penicilin resistant making an infection that used to only occur as an effect of something else and was easy to treat extremely difficult to get rid of
What you say is true. This situation has sent me down the rabbit hole of reading through a lot of the research on this matter. What I am seeing is pretty much in line with what you are saying with a caveat. According the a lot of the research articles I have found, there are also risk associated with "antibiotic avoidance" including serious complications. I think what I am seeing here is the application of the 80 percent on the 20 percent. In other words, what is good for the 80 percent group gets applied to the other 20 percent of the population that it is not appropriate for. (80 and 20 percent are arbitrary numbers I am using metaphorically to illustrate a point).So in my case, I would have been in the so called 20 percent group but got "standardized care" which was not optimal in my case. I fear this is a problem not just in Sweden but world wide as many times doctors are so focused on treating patients based on standardized guidelines rather than treating patients as individuals. The standards are a protection and helpful but one should not be so reliant and them that they lose critical thinking skills. One thing I learned when I became a prescriber in Texas was, that when a patient presents to you with symptoms, you generally think of the typical causes for their symptoms all the while being cognizant that maybe 1 out of 5 people with those symptoms have it for another reason. I think it is a very complex issue especially when considering oral surgery. The mouth is a very dirty place and it is very difficult to keep clean after surgery. There are known risks associated with bacteria from the teeth getting into the blood stream and migrating somewhere else. By withholding antibiotics in my case to prevent resistance we have now increased my risk for antibiotic resistance as now I have been on 5 weeks of antibiotics and have damage to my jaw from the infection which is going to take a long time to heal. I think the key is good prescribing stewardship rather than just a treating every patient the same. Possibly we could have reduced my risk for antibiotic resistance and complications by having a milder prescription for a few days as opposed to weeks or months on two different antibiotics.
@becurious2000 as far as I can tell, such policies are based on populations and are often so rigidly applied that there's no room for clinician input until a situation becomes emergency level. Too many policymakers forget that medicine isn't an exact science I'm what some polite clinicians call "atypical" in my presentation so I'm very accustomed to the interesting experience of numerous members of various teams standing around me and making helpful comments Edited to add-: first time I've had a relevant ad on RUclips - toothpaste 😂
My aunt's husband became a drug addict after getting pain medicine for his back. He got their whole family deep in dept and she had to pay off for years after divorcing him, living on just the very basics with the kids - not to mention the human suffering. Perhaps your willingness to tough it out and general bravery made them think you'd be fine without heavier meds. Addiction is not a complication you want even for your worst enemy.
I agree. About 20 years ago l was offered the cool drugs but refused and was hence given A LOT OF THEM, so I could use them if needed. I don't know how other people react in this situation but I took everything I was given. Who am I to disagree with the experts.
I hear you.I have a friend who got addicted and ended up in jail for stealing drugs from his patients. He had never had pain meds, hurt his shoulder in a skiing accident, and was prescribed the same medication you give to cancer patients- way too strong of medication.
Sweden is very restrictive prescribing opioids/morphine when not necessary. They only do it to those who other pain meds doesn’t work anymore but that is still very controlled and restricted.
I have had very stopping, potentially addictive pain medication because I was in severe pain. When I was no longer in pain I stopped the medication. I am not addicted. Pain medication needs to be given cautiously but we must not demonise the medication and stop those who need it from being prescribed or.
@@becurious2000 I found this very interesting, as a chronic pain patient in Sweden. Thanks for sharing your experience. I think when it comes to pain killers, Sweden has gone too far in the restriction. I've had chronic pain for over a decade, and been tossed around like a hot potato in health care. Even the pain specialists are so restrictive, I've tried so many medications with horrible side effects (anti-depressants, anti-epileptics, allergy meds... Anything but actual painkillers!) for a decade and only got worse. Finally, last year, when my pain was so bad I couldn't sleep or eat and the health care kept stalling and pushing my appointment forward, I went private. And got adequate pain relief for the first time, after seeking help since I was 14. It literally took 20 years. The first 10 was just to get a diagnosis, and even then I didn't get any help. I would have thought that the pain specialist at the hospital, who'd been putting me off for 6 months, offered a morphine plaster in the meantime that made me horribly sick, would have been thrilled! After 20 years, I finally had adequate pain relief, that's cause for celebration?! Nope. He just said that Swedish pain specialist don't belive there's any evidence that cannabis has any pain relieving effects. 🤦🏼♀️
The opiod crisis in the US is a big reason why Sweden is so restrictive on pain meds. But I agree with you on the antibiotics, you should have had that from the start.
You should have antibiotics WHEN and IF you have bacterial infection (proven) with serious symptoms. We do not need to develop severe resistance to the antibiotics
Preoperative antibiotics used to be standard in Sweden too, however that has changed due to no proven benefits - higher risk of complications with antibiotics than without.
I hope you feel better very soon. I think specialist care and ER care here in Sweden are fantastic. At the base GP level, it's a lottery if you get a good doctor or not. I broke my wrist badly this summer and the ER, surgery and follow up cost the equivalent of approx 70 USD. Thats when you really appreciate the health care system. Take care!
20:50 This is something Swedish healthcare really needs to work on. Sending people home with "call us if it gets worse" is seemingly not good enough. I've heard this time and again, people being told that they should have come back in. People are not doctors, some will soldier through after being sent home, against their own judgement, a doctor sent them home in the first place, after all. I wonder what, if there's any, evidence we have for the current state of affairs. Maybe people are even worse at making judgement calls if they are given criteria from their doctors. As for geting pain meds, it can be extra difficult for people with ASD. Communicating levels of pain and discomfort seems to be more difficult and seems to be taken less seriously. That's also something I hear a lot. Clear, firm, maybe even blunt verbal communication seems to be the key.
I broke a rib. They sent me home the day after and told me to come back in if I needed. As a Swede I knew that meant "call 1177". When you call 1177, you give them all your symptoms, and they will tell you if you need to go back to the hospital or not. I don't remember what pain meds I got, just that they didn't work and that I couldn't drive a car while taking them.
It's also a generational thing. Boomers _really_ don't want to be a "nuisance" to the point of being a risk to themselves. And it's almost impossible to get them to do something against the doctors orders/recommendations. (I'm generalizing of course.) My dad is a perfect example. He's been on an antihistamine for some nose issues for at least 6 years by now. It was supposed to treat his symptoms in a couple of weeks but it took 3 years. I've tried to get him to at least _entertain_ the idea that his recovery had nothing to do with the antihistamin but he can't stop clinging to "the doctor said I should take this" so he won't even bring it up with a doctor now🤦♀
Not the same as when cysts, and pus is involved, but I didn't get, nor need pain killers when I went through the procedure of getting a titan tooth implant screw. I think it's one of those things where if it turns out that you did need stronger painkillers, and/or antibiotics, you're going to wish you had gotten it from the start, but I presume that they have statistical numbers showing that the majority doesn't actually need it.
I've got a dental implant screwed in as one of my front teeth. It was completely painless recovery for me as well. But here in Finland I've always been given a single prophylactic antibiotic during the visit whenever I've had a tooth extracted if there has been an infection in the root. But nothing for after (and never needed any after).
They err on the side of caution here in Aotearoa/ New Zealand as well and only prescribe antibiotics as a last resort. They're also cautious over pain relief, especially opioids. I have to say l much prefer our approach and am always shocked when l hear of people from other countries being given antibiotics for viruses, colds and flu and the like. I would lose faith in my Dr if he even suggested such a thing.
You know you are so right. The two big factors that stand out to me for antibiotic resistance is giving them for things that are viral which I am proud to say in the USA I think most newer trained healthcare workers understand and the other being patients stopping the medication before it’s finished just because they feel better. I think we are learning now we should not be afraid of antibiotics but use them cautiously. In my case we are learning I should have gotten them right from the beginning based on the nature of my surgery. In fact the CT shows no infection now this week but still inflammation of which the treatment is the same for … antibiotics. Apparently I had ongoing inflammation because so much bone was removed and when the antibiotics were stopped it came back. I see this a lot with our patients with foot wounds. The antibiotics really help a lot in many cases. The key is having a knowledgeable and competent provider who is up to date with current trends and is not ruled by fear to give patients appropriate care. Patients should not suffer because a provider is to afraid to do the right thing for the patient as an individual. I am proud to say the physicians I work with are quite competent here in Sweden in my department and do an excellent job.
@becurious2000 Well said. I nearly had a conniption (such a lovely old word, l can't resist using it) when a friend offered another friend some of their "left over" antibiotics. I couldn't believe anyone could be that stupid and it took me quite some time to explain that they were actually contributing to the breeding of antibiotic resistant strains. It sounded dreadful and l hope you're on top of it now.
As a tourist in New York, we got very inadequate healthcare. The Swedish doctors couldn't believe that they prescribed such a low dose of antibiotics for an ear infection and as a result, my sister partially lost hearing on one of her ears.
Glad you got to the hospital in time. As a swede with a couple of scares myself, I have always been extremly grateful for the healthcare we recieve here. Hope you get better quick and take care now.
In Sweden it isn't completely free: The ambulance cost about $30 (yes, thirty, not thirty thousand) and each day in the hospital cost about $10. All medicine, x-rays, tests, etc including meals are included. Compared to USA it is free :)
@@perrob People DO know that. I'm Canadian and like all Canadians, we are fully aware that our taxes are paying for our healthcare. We also know how it works...that pooling our monies helps our governments to find the best prices for resources...like drugs, supplies, doctors and nurses, equipment.
You are never a costumar in Norway either. You are always a patient ❤ We are also carefull with strong painmeds and antibioticts. For good reasons...Greetings from a Norwegian nurse ❤
I’m really sorry you’ve had to go through this. But it’s also comforting to know that you are well-taken cared of. As someone who has been on the receiving end of emergency care due to an (at that time) unknown tumor (not cancer), I also ended up being one of the odd 0.1% people who got something really rarely and practically unheard of ‘thing’ that is only ever mentioned as ‘possible’ in ‘theory’. It’s easy to look back and think:”they should have done this differently.” When in reality we are the odd ones out in the statistics. We are the exception. I feel you, truly, and all I can really say is that we got some shit luck. I don’t really think anyone did anything wrong here. You and I just happened to be the odd ones out.
(from sweden) I have had my wisdom teeth removed, (also also did upper jaw surgery so I know that world quite well) I did the wisdom teeth surgery in 2 parts, first one side, heal, then the other side. And the second time I got an infection. Didn't have much problem with pain or sickness but I've got prescribed antibiotics. And luckily for me, some hour after I took the antibiotic, I was standing in the bathroom and just pushed at the swollen cheek, and liquid started pouring into my mouth, so I just spit it out and filled my mouth over and over again. I drained the infection by my self. So I guess I was lucky with the complication. I can't imagine pain you must have felt
I also experienced being denied antibiotics in Sweden but the nature of it all with the resistance build-up it's really hard to know what's correct and not. In your case it was obviously a bad choice but in mine I have no idea, I've not been close to dying from it or getting seriously hurt.
I've spent a lot of time at Sahlgrenska and Östra in Göteborg. If you are in pain and are admitted, or in the ER, you can ask for a morphine injection and they'll usually do it for you. I had them do that when I was having trouble walking from a joint bleed. (I have hemophilia). I've been here for 18 years now. ;)
I generally agree with the reluctance to handing out antibiotics like candy. Even so, a case like this, where they’re literally removing infected cysts from quite deep in the jaw area, with all the potential complications that come with that - that sounds like a place where prescribing antibiotics up front should be warranted.
I’m English and I’m surprised about that too but for a different reason. We don’t pay anything to see a doctor, for a doctor home visit or for a hospital visit or drugs prescribed in hospital. It’s covered by taxes which are not as high as in Sweden.
@juliebrooke6099 do you have to pay anything for tests like CT scans? I live in the USA, and my #1 complaint is having to pay hundreds of dollars in insurance copayments for diagnostic tests and procedures like colonoscopies. Insurance companies should at least cover testing at 100%. It's inhumane to charge people just to find out if they have something serious going on.
@juliebrooke6099 Our primary care doctor has to order the tests, too. There are a few private companies that provide the scans, but of course, they're very expensive. People go to the emergency department at hospitals in hopes of getting a scan so they can be billed for it later, and that drives up hospital costs for everyone, but I understand why they do it.
Thanks for the video. It's interesting to hear a foreigners perspective. I've never had tooth surgery but I did have brain surgery and only had paracetamol and ibuprofen as pain killers after the surgery day. When I had gallbladder surgery I got morphine to take home but didn't use it. I can't remember the last time I had to take antibiotics. I think it's smart to be restrictive with prescribing antibiotics but you should absolutely get it when you need it.
OMG Brandon you have been though it, glad your getting well, well done to all the Swedish doctors dentist, nurses, they are worth there weight in gold, look after yourself,lots of love from Linda in Scotland xxx💙❤️🩹🇸🇪💊
My experience is that they do prescribed pain killers with codein or something similar after you have this kind of pain. I've never been denied heavy pain killers if needed. Antibiotics though, yes, we're careful with that.
Interesting difference in praxis compared to Finland: I have just had an artificial root put in last Monday, and I have still one and a half days left of the routine course of antibiotics (Kefexin) that the dental surgeon prescribed. I did have some swelling and pain, but otherwise things seem to be going well. Best of luck for your healing!
Hi from Dalarna Sweden. I had the same problem after impacted wisdom tooth operation. But i had covid so i couldn't get it drained, but i got antibiotics straight away. But it took me almost 3 weeks before i could open my mouth and eat properly. It was the worst. Good you are feeling better.
Me too I'm very satisfied with the care they gave me one year ago. I was standing on my porch watching Aurora when I felt this indescribable pain in my chest, it was so bad that I collapsed when I came to my senses I went to my neighbour because I thought I couldn't manage to make a call when I came to the end of my porch I got the second attack and collapsed again, the third time I had just knocked on my neighbour's door. I just remember him shouting to his wife to call an ambulance. They drove me to Gällivare 100 km at the hospital they discovered that I had an aneurysm and dissection of my aorta so they decided to fly me to Umeå, (500km). When I was waiting for the next ambulance to drive me to the plane I had a stroke during the operation in Umeå (8,5 hours) I got pneumonia and my kidneys and liver started to strike, and for the first time in my life, I gained weight (12 kg) due to my kidneys not working, thanks to dialysis that went away almost just as fast. After just over 2 weeks at the ICU they drove to the airport and flew me (300km), to another ICU near Luleå where I spent the next 15 days, another ambulance and another flight (250km) I was back in Gällivare spent just a month in a normal care unit and then they drove me back To Jokkmokk where I spent just 2 days in the hospital. My 2 sisters and husbands and my brother came from the Netherlands to stay by my side and even though I don't remember anything they said it felt so amazingly comforting to have them there, they told me later that they experienced the care I got as even better than in the Netherlands (they have had kids on the ICU). There was in my case never any discussion about antibiotics or drugs they have been giving me different forms of anti-biotics the first week because I was critical and then they just gave what they thought would do the job. I don't remember much from the first 2 weeks other than that I felt so good to have my family and kids by my side and all the most wonderful drugs they gave me (I'm an experienced user, was an addict on and off for 30 years, clean for 10 years now). So Yeah I am very grateful for the excellent care I received the only negative thing I can say is that the food in Gällivare hospital was horrible. But the staff was so incredibly nice that even though it's a year later I'm still touched when I think about them.
Hope you are doing well today! All the best! Had myself an disection of the internal carotid artery, the pain I felt and before anyone believed me (days) was the most difficult time of my life. This was at the age of 30 and my wife in 8 months expecting our first. All went well, after 300 pills of blood medicin I am now 40 and feeling stronger then ever. Sometimes life gives you a second chance
Earlier this year i had a wisdom tooth surgery. My dentist recommended me to have one quite soon even though it did not bothered me. Couse when you are younger you heal a lot faster. Im 34. So i did. I did not have any cyst nor pain before but they wanted that thing out. It was pushing on its neighbor and caused damaged in that one, later had a root canal on that one. At the same time I took blood thinners so trying to stop the bleeding afterwards was annoying, but i got there. I find it strange that they did not recommend doing anything in the US. Before the surgery and after i took some special mouth wash to clean the mouth with. For pain they usually recommended Alvedon and Ipren but as i was on blood thinners i could not take Ipren. They prescribed me some morphin which i did not use since i was okey with the Alvedon (paracetamol).
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Hearing how, in the midst of your own pain and suffering, you managed to also think about the wellfare of other people (by not wanting to overburden the healthcare system) is so heartwarming. Shows what a deeply considerate and trusting person you are. As a farmer with livestock here in Sweden I've come to understand a few things about antibiotic resistance and why we in Sweden are so restrictive and careful. First of all antibiotic restistance in the West is driven by a combination of factors, both over- and misuse in the medical profession and over- and misuse in livestock production. The routine use of antibiotics (ab) in livestock is often to promote growth and prevent disease as most livestock (that is not out on pasture) is kept in overcrowded and unhygeinic conditions. Resistant bacteria develop and spread to humans through direct contact with animals, consumtion of undercooked (and even sometime well cooked) meat that's been contaminated and can carry resistant genes if cross-contamination occurs in food processing or preparation (ie foodborne transmission), and environmental exposure (water, soil). For example, manure from livestock can contaminate water and soil, spreading resistant bacteria that can enter the human food supply through crops irrigated with conamtinated water or through direct contact with the environment. In the U.S. and Europe concerns have been growing over the potential of "superbugs" originating in agricultural settings to spill over to the human population. Overall, the overuse of antibiotics in livestock farming significantly inreases the number of rb in the environment and human population, making it more challenging to treat infections and increases the burden on public health systems worldwide. Reducing unnecessary anbtibiotic use in agriculture is a key part of combating antibiotic resistance. It's very important that people understand that this is one of the prices we have to pay for CHEAP ABUNDANT FOOD. Keeping animals confined in small spaces increases the profitability of production but it's patients like yourself as well as the wider community and society that is paying a hefty price. If food was more expensive and animals could be kept in better conditions this issue would probably not be as dire as it currently it. In Sweden it's not allowed to give antibiotics to animals for growth or pre-emptivly to combat disease so we are trying to do our part. But this is a worldwide problem and considering an estimated 40% of all food produced is wasted and thrown away it seems like such an ineffective and wasteful agrifood system we’ve created for ourselves. Glad you're feeling better!!
I always enjoy your feedback and your channel! I like watching your channel to help me improve my Swedish. I am hoping long term to follow your path and live off the land... sort of a homestead type of life. Thanks again for the nice comments and information!
@ best of luck with that. Compared to the rest of Western Europe Sweden is pretty affordable if you’re looking to find a house and some land (at least in the north). And with you background as a nurse I’m sure you’ll be able to find work near a city or larger town.
In Finland as I got taken wisdom tooth out I did get Penicillin and pain killers.. Paracetamol and Ibuprofen .. both for a couple of days. It's really hard to get strong opioid based pain killers here.. and generally it's not needed. I have some stronger ones (even those are not opioid based) that I got for my neck pain that was pushing some nerve and radiating to my arm. I think it's kinda standard if you have bigger operation in your mouth the antibiotics are quite important since you have a lot of bacteria and growing grounds for them in the mouth. The second time I had to take out wisdom tooth from the other side it was a faster procedure .. no surgery, just pulled out so I think it was only pain killers then.
Agreed. After a significant tooth-related surgery I had done about 15 years ago I was prescribed both antibiotics and morfine to lessen the extreme pain. I was glad, because it really helped, but on the other hand I'm also not a proponent of handing out heavily addictive drugs 😅 None the less, I think our system works well for what it is and the tax money we put into it, and if even more funds were directed that way I think it would only get better. But I don't think the healthcare here is any better than in Finland, Germany, France, Spain or elsewhere. It's just about pros and cons essentially 😊
Local anaesthetics do not work well in infected tissue because the pH is low due to pus and the local anaesthetic molecules cannot pass into the nerve cells. The blood supply to the area also increases, which washes the local anaesthetic out of the tissues.
US here, with a shoulder replacement. My dentist always prescribes antibiotics prior to and after any invasive procedure, so any open oral surgery. Where I live you would have been hospitalized with IV antibiotics with those symptoms.
In Denmark it is the same as Sweden. You only get antibiotics if you have an infection, you can’t treat something which is not there. Pain medication is probably a little more relaxed here, but you would only get like 10-20 tablets.
I have had equally sensitive, kind and quick ER treatment right here in the U.S. when I fell on my head. So sorry you were so sick and had such a difficult time, got good care and am now better.
Wow I am so sorry I have never heard about anything this bad. Taking out bad teeth/cheeck situations is truly never fun.... I never had a cyst but I had a tooth that had grown into my cheechbone so they didn´t really want to touch that either because of the nerv damage. I am surprised about you not getting antibiotics earlier... My tooth was removed after becoming bad again after 4 antibiotic cures. I lost sensation in my whole left side of the cheek and my lip for almost 6 months after the surgery and now 2 years after all sensation is finally back. So it can take a really long time for the nerves to heal. Cannot imagine the horror you have experienced. Hope you heal fast! I
I’m so glad to hear your sensation returned, glad for you (of course!) but also to hear there is hope should that happen to me since I’m in a similar situation (wisdom teeth roots too close to the nerve to remove safely). I hope you recover fully!
I'm surprised. I thought our healthcare system had collapsed way more than what you described. Your experience sounds like what it used to be like 20-30 years ago when I was a kid. Can't say I've had any good experiences with our healthcare in a long time and I kind of gave up on the system when I had tonsillitis a few years ago. I sought medical care after 3 weeks, they sent me home without proper examination - it was at the "jour" (for non-Swedes, jour is like when another company runs healthcare during after-hours in place of the regular one) after regular hours. After that, I endured for another 3 weeks but at that point, I was unable to talk and had to push air out in order to make sounds. I called the medical advice service and they said I should go see a doctors again, so I did. After seeing a doctor, I was prescribed a 10 day antibiotics cure but didn't fully recover. On the 10th day, I called the medical advice service once again and they said I should go see a doc at the "jour" in the evening and once I was there, they examined me and concluded I still had a bacterial infection and sent me home without treatment. At that point, I had been ill for 2 months already and I became completely disillusioned with society and just lost hope entirely. In total, I had pain in my throat and cough for 10 months straight and gave up on our wellfare system and especially the healthcare as a whole. I'm a native Swedish person and my ancestors have been Swedish on both sides for about 10 generations. I must say though, I am actually genuinely happy to hear that you had a good experience with our healthcare despite the complications! Also, that consideration of not wanting to burden the system and being reluctant to call an ambulance - that sounds very "Swedish" to me. I've noticed people have gotten more self-centered lately, especially during the past 8-10 years. With regards to your over all experience, I can say that when you arrive at the emergency room, they prioritize the most acutely ill patients first so if you'd been there with something less severe (like a fractured leg for example), you might've had to wait a really long time. All-in-all, this video honestly made me think that maybe there is still some hope in our society and maybe it's just where I live now that things are especially bad.
Your video was recommended to me by the algorithm, but I have had lots of experience with the Swedish healthcare system due to a genetic heart condition that I have that was actually discovered while I've lived here. This year is my 20th anniversary of living in Sweden. About 8 years ago, it was discovered through a routine physical exam that I have an AV Block III and had to get a pacemaker in. From the moment it was discovered to when I was sent to the emergency room, I got excellent care and it all happened very quickly. They even sent me on an over hour long ambulance ride to another hospital to get an MRI! They wanted to get a good image of my heart before the implant. They do NOT play around with heart conditions! Fast forward to today and it's progressed to me now having dilated cardiomyopathy. My cardiologist just couldn't understand how a woman my age (early 50s) could have these issues and ordered genetic testing for me. Turns out I have a laminen mutation which is the cause of all of this. There's nothing that can be done. So, now they have me on 5 different meds and I had my second pacemaker implant (CRT-P) in 2022. I cannot say enough good things about the care I have gotten here. It's been amazing and I've paid next to nothing out of pocket for it! I would absolutely be bankrupt if this had all happened in the US. I'm realy surprised you didn't get antibiotics when you had the wisdom teeth surgery. Besides the pacemaker surgery, I've also had a minor gyno type surgery and they put me on antibiotics to prevent any infections that could occur in both cases. I would think they would have considered wisdom teeth surgery to be similar, but I guess not? Really sorry you had to suffer through that infection!
Thanks for sharing! Yea I am so glass they take heart issues seriously. I had heart trouble this summer after my dad passed away. They got right on it! I am super grateful for that.
Interesting! My grandson has recently had a cyst in his chin, full of inflammation, so he's been operated on, but it has hitherto gone well. I wish you a quick recovery! Thank you for sharing this story!
From the story you're telling I think your dentist friend is the cog that broke the machinery in this case. Based on how complicated the surgery was to begin with they should have kicked your butt over to the emergency room right away when there was a problem. Not Folktandvården or any other wait and see solution. The idea is you don't get antibiotics until you need it and early signs of infection would be an excellent reason to get on antibiotics. I'm glad your other friend drove you there later, it would have been miserable to use public transportation in that state. Glad you're feeling better and hope it keeps improving!
That sounds like a terrible experience with the infection, so sorry you had to go through that. It seems like it depends on the surgeon if you receive antibiotics or not. I had to remove a partially impacted wisdom tooth a week ago and the surgeon told me beforehand that if he thinks it necessary he will prescribe me antibiotics. However, it wasn't necessary this time and my recovery has been very smooth. So for my surgeon at least it's a case by case thing, which I think is the way to go. Don't overdo it, but in some circumstances it's warranted. I hope you're feeling much better now so you can enjoy a nice Christmas. Greetings from Stockholm! ✨
I love the medical services here, but there are certian situations where you need to be your own advocate or have one with you. That being said they are very big on looking at the community as a whole when it comes to antibiotics and pain meds. They don't want to created problems that may put the community at risk. I've been in both the Swedish and American systems and there are, like you said, good in both, but at the end of the day I prefer Sweden.
There is a BIG reason antibiotic and pain killers are last resort, this is because the more used in general of antibiotics the more resistant antibiotics bacteria develops to the point our antibiotics will stop working, as a nurse you should know this. Also much painkillers drugs are very addicted so you can end up become drug addicted. Never take drugs unless you really need.
Yes of course I know this. In fact, I was a prescriber in the USA. The point I am making is we should use good stewardship when prescribing. Antibiotic and pain medicine withholding is not the answer either. A balanced approach is needed. Note this quote from a study "On the other hand, withholding antibiotics might potentially carry risks and reduced antibiotic prescribing in general practice is associated with a small increase in complications such as treatable pneumonia and peritonsillar abscess (National Library of Medicine, 2020)." There are many other such references that point out that the answer to dealing with antibiotic resistance is not so simple. There is a lot of nuance to this problem. I saw another study done in the Netherlands that showed worsening of dementia symptoms of patients that did not receive antibiotic treatment compared to those that received treatment. The issue is more complex than just not giving or giving antibiotics. I have been on antibiotics now for 6 weeks which has increased my risk for complications and resistance to antibiotics which could have been reduced by a prophylactic treatment of a few days. I may now have long term damage to my jaw due to the inflammation I got, I missed many days of work, used a lot of resources that could have gone to help other people, ect. I work in a department here in Sweden that is NOT afraid of prescribing antibiotics for those who need it but the physicians I work with are extremely competent and confident. I can say for a fact that they are excellent stewards of pain management and antibiotic prescribing. I myself am reluctant to take antibiotics but I know when it is necessary. I have had more people coming out of the wood work lately in Sweden that I know personally who have had similar issues from getting similar procedures performed on them in Sweden which is in stark contrast to the mostly good anecdotal reports I am hearing from acquaintances who had their wisdom teeth removed in the USA. The problem is we had for years had prescriptions written for things that were viral rather than bacterial as well as the fact that patients would stop taking the antibiotics because they felt better even though they had not completed the prescribed regimen. This definitely needed to be addressed but I fear the pendulum has swung too far the other way.
@@becurious2000 You are actually wrong, and the reason is that scandinavian medical care is far beyond US. Even with major surgery antibiotics are not automatic. Of course there are a few that need extra treatment, but the care is evidence based. you dont blanket bomb antibiotics on all, to catch the 0,01% that needs it. We actually did the same as US many years ago. I was at a Vietnam country hospital with pneumonia, and they did the same as US, I got everything in the book, even if I didn't need it.
@ I apologize if that is the interpretation that you got from my statement. I reiterate.. I am not saying anything about blanket bombing. If you look at my comments carefully you will see I was talking about good stewardship. That means you treat each patient individually based on needs as opposed to giving everyone the same treatment. The issue with evidence based care is the evidence is interpreted differently by different governing bodies. This can be illustrated by the standard guidelines for diabetes treatment. The American Diabetes Association has slightly different guidelines and parameters as opposed to the American Association of Clinical Endocrinology. This led to problems in diagnosing patients with diabetes and what should be the target A1C. The point I am trying to assert here is as doctors and nurses we should not be mindless drones just doing something because we were told to do it. I saw this happen when I worked as a diabetes consultant. If we are going to treat all patients the same we might as well have robots prescribe the same things for everyone. To further illustrate my concern I see in health care where prescribers just do whatever some body told them can be illustrated by the fact that they learned A1C guidelines were too tight and came with risks for for certain patient groups such as elderly and people with multiple comorbidities. The risks included hypoglycemia which can lead to death. After getting reports of severe complications… which did not happen immediately, they finally loosened up the guidelines to prevent adverse reactions. I would be interested to know how you feel I should have been treated when considering I am still on antibiotics for 6 weeks now and have damage to my jaw and have missed weeks of work and been a strain on resources . Once again, I am not saying to give antibiotics to everyone. I agree with you, but we need to look at our patients not as a number on a piece of paper but as an individual human being. We are not cars that you can treat all the same.
I would like to point out one more thought regarding your comment that "Scandinavian care is far beyond US." While it is true that there are definitely areas where Scandinavian countries excel in health care this is a rather dogmatic statement that is painting with a VERY broad paintbrush. As someone who has worked in healthcare in both countries I feel I can have some freedom to say that there are also areas where Sweden falls WAY behind. In Sweden for example, we have been having to have radiology reports outsourced to other countries like Australia because Sweden is so back logged and can't keep up. The journaling system is super antiquated compared to the USA. I was shocked how easy it would be for health care personnel to steal narcotics in the health care setting in Sweden (and it has happened in the time I been here which is ironic considering the statements here by others saying there is a concern for narcotic abuse). It is way easier to mix up medications and give the wrong medication to the wrong patient in Swedish hospitals. Nurses are not required to do continued education to keep their licenses every 2 years like we do in America. When it comes to medication administration in the hospital, they are doing things that we were doing like 20 years ago. I can make a very long list. In fact... I think you gave me an idea for an interesting video! Haha! But yea... there are a lot of things Sweden does better. In reality, we can learn from each other.
@@becurious2000 One of the larger regions actually tried to modernise recently by buying a journal system from US. It did not go well. ;) Probably not because the system was inherently bad though I suppose. But the thanks to the neoliberals turn to mess around with ideology over reason that started in Sweden meant everything that can be outsourced should be outsourced. So now everything is basically dependant on things only someone else knows anything about and no one will take any responsibility for. Also, antibiotics will occasionally still be used with the carpet bombing method. But for non emergency things it usually takes a long time because sample treatments are done befrehand. And since that, obviously, is outsourced as well it will usually take a long wait time for invasive procedures just because of that. There can of course be other factors as well though.
it's quite interesting! I think Finland would be somewhere in between! I don't work in health care, but in my experience it is true that the antibiotics are not given easily. For example for a sinus infection you don't get antibiotics here nowadays (we still did have those around 10 years ago). But I've heard that in these kind of situations, like yours, for example teeth/mouth surgery, they do give them. Also I've understood that in Finland it's an idea that a patient shouldn't feel pain, as getting better pain free helps you get better sooner. So pain killers are given. But the really strong pain killers only if you can't cope with the pain on the more common pain killers such as ibuprofein or parasetamol.
How refreshing to hear a positive story, yet to unfold. I believe that we have been fed to be afraid the of the big bad wolf! I would certainly trust this patient's observations. Level headed and rational! Best wishes for your recovery!
Always have dental work done early in the week, If there are any complications you have the rest of the week to have your dentist look at it, before they bugger off for the weekend and leave you in the hands of the public system. I learnt that the hard way.
I'm glad you had such a wonderful experience with the health care system in Sweden. When I shattered my wrist (took three metal plates and 18 screws to put it back) I do want to say that I had a wonderful hand surgeon in southern California and with good insurance I also had pretty minimal costs. It was left up to me how long I'd continue heavy pain medication but I only took it three or four days and then took Tylenol. The staff at the hospital were wonderful and caring, so there are good places even in the US, but there may be different standards in some of the left affluent states for all I know.
I feel you! I am a German who has been living in Sweden for almost 11 years. I have had unbelievably bad experiences with dentists. The first dentist I went to for a root canal treatment did an unbelievably bad job. It turned out that she had treated the root canals incorrectly and a lot more. She is no longer licensed. I then went to another dentist and this one also made it worse, so that I had a large abscess. In the end I begged for him to remove the tooth because it was unbearable. After that I did a lot of research and looked for a good dentist. Finally I found a private clinic with a German-Swedish dentist. Of course a private clinic is very expensive, but it was worth it to me. In the end three additional teeth had to be removed due to previous treatment errors. I needed four dental bridges in total, which ended up costing me almost 100k SEK. I am happy and was lucky to find a very professional dentist in the end. After the operations, he also prescribed me suitable and effective painkillers (paracetamol-codeine mixture). I hope you feel well again soon and that everything will be just a faint memory in the end.
@@awakening5724 hard to say. I don’t know if I just had bad luck. I personally know many who go to the same dentist and never had any problems before. When they heard what happened all were shocked and said… but they have such good reviews… 🤷
I had the same surgery in Canada and they sent me home with opiates pain killers and antibiotics. I was thankful for both of those. You're lucky you didn't end up with sepsis. I ended up with a very rare complication. After 15 years of constant pain in my lower front teeth I finally got the diagnosis of phantom nerve pain.
I'm sorry for your ordeal and all the pain you had to gp through! I say that antibiotics are too restricted in Sweden as a prevention, so much are given to animals as prevention to those so to give to patients who could be at risk of infection is too restricted imo. They should've let you stay for observation in a ward at the hospital. To go to the ER aren't free of charge but affordable in Sweden. Its 300 -400 SEK, differs which region as they decide the costs independently. If you need to go, you call for a sjukbil - which is basicly a taxi taking you there, better cost than a taxi fare. If you need paramedics you of course need to call an ambulance. Doesnt cost 700$ or like how much I really dont know though. I had to call for a sjukbil once to go to the ER unit at the neatest hospital, and it came within 15 min. My experience at the hospital was good, I was well threated but of course I had to wait bc there were other patients. I was taken to a room though, and could lay down after had been in triage. Turned out I had been prescribed the wrong antibiotics by the doctor for pheumonia as it was mycoplasma, and that calls for an other type of antibiotics. So the meds Ive been taken didnt help. At all. I was getting really ill, chills and sweating and all the works. NDE almost. The doctor at the ER was really annoyed when she heard about it, bc I might aswell had gotten the antibiotics that works for both. Would have spared me, and spared me from having to go to the hospital. Fixed it in the first place. I told the doctor at the primary care unit, vårdcentralen, that I strongly suspected mycoplasma bc my son had just been sick in this kind of phenumena from mycoplasma and he was admitted in to hospital ward, infection bc he was so infected and couldnt breath. But no - the doctor said this wasn't possible due to the time span of incubation it could not be that I had myvoplasma just bc my son had it for 3 weeks ago. Well what do you know! The ER doctor said that yes we are restricted for prescribing antibiotics, its always within the procotols from the Medical Agency but there are linits to for being too restrictive in our daily practise to our patients needs. Also, a test for mycoplasma is really easily done, its just a swab test from the inside of the cheek. Nothing complicated and nothing expensive. Yes I agree that we must advocate for our needs as patients, and be really assertive about it.
I'll give you a little tip if regular pain relief with Alvedon (paracetamol) doesn't help, e.g with a toothache: take 2 Alvedon (paracetamol) and 1 Ipren (ibuprofen). I've worked as a dental nurse for 5 years. Q: Do you speak and understand (spoken and/or written) Swedish or only one of the options?😊
Ja. Jag pratar och skriver på svenska 😎 Jag tog 1 g Alvedon plus 400 mg Ipren varje 6 timmar dygnet runt och det räckte tyvärr inte till. Tack och lov fick jag Citodon. I början behövde jag 2 stycka Citodon per gång och kunde inte ta Alvedon då Citodon innehåller Alvedon. Efter ett par dagar trappade jag när till 1 Citodon tablett plus 500 mg Alvedon varje 6 timmar. Nu tar jag sällan smärtstillande.
Jag väntar just nu på att få tid till att operera bort 2 visdomständer(båda i underkäken), en som har gått ner under några andra av tänderna och som dessutom har en cysta, den andra växer uppochner. Om jag får rådet att ta 2 alvedon och en ipren som inte ens hjälper vid en jävla huvudvärk så får det bli smärtstillande från gatan. Hatar Sverige ibland.
Norway is the same. You need to have an arm almost cut of in Norway. They are very scared for the opioid situation from the US come to Scandinavia. I traveld to the US, and we lost our flight, and I had calculated wrong how many pain meds I had brought with me, so the hotel called a doctor and I got a opineinm,ent and it was no biggie to get some help. Quick and easy. Another time I had pneumonia and all I wanted was some antibiotics fort and keep on going for my vacation in New York! But they kept me over two nights and I had 8 different doctors coming to se me. Felt like I was a golden ticket for them to squeeze out all the insurance money!
Oh my god...I can't even imagine the astronomical levels of hell you've been through! I'm glad they kept working with you and they were nice to you on top of that. Its good insight to hear about your experience with the healthcare system. I understand not everyone's experience is the same, but it was something I was wondering. The closest thing I got to a medical related procedure while in Sweden was getting my first tattoo and yes they do take being sterile very seriously. Which I am happy about.The guy worked fast did a phenomenal job and didn't feel any pain. However, I hope you are feeling better and definitely liked and subscribed!
Hope you get better soon. You should have called 1177 to get advice. Even if you are a nurse it is always better to have another person deal with something like this. They will also call the ER so they now that you are coming. They also call for the ambulans if needed. Ulla 🌷🌷🌷
As a person who also has trouble with anxiety, I think it's great that they told you exactly what they were going to do (and probably also why) before they did it. I've had various medical experiences here in Canada, and a lot of doctors and nurses will also do that, but some don't. I suspect it depends on the individual personalities of the medical people.
From Norway here, and I really think you should have had painkillers, but I guess you have to actively ask for it. My husband had a minor surgery on his hand, and got it automatically. I experienced sepsis myself 9 years ago, and have my own harrowing experience from it, mostly that I was sent home with 2 boxes of antibiotics instead of hooking me up with IV immidiately, and 9 years later I still have ME from it. I also have experience from giving birth in the US, and in that particular case, I was glad to receive care in the US. Norway is really really big on natural deliveries, sometimes to the detriment to the mothers health, and in the US I had a C-section, before it was allowed to go really bad. I appreciate that so much. Overall, I'm pro healthcare for all/socialized medicine, but there can always be improvements made, for sure. Hope for your speedy recovery!
Interesting! I’m 60 and recently had my first surgery and first night in a hospital here in Sweden. Found all the nurses and doctors I met very kind and professional. Paid 130 SEK for staying one night (13 USD).
Yeah, I paid 460 for 2 trips to the ER and two nights at medicinska avdelningen. Like sure, as a student, it is a bit tough, but it's less than 500 at the end of the day (prior to ER I also spent another 800 on my VC because they kept sending me home and asking me to come back). I have now changed VC.
@@becurious2000 It doesn't cover toothcare though. Among swedes we all know that how to tell if you're poor. Is the state of your teeth. Fixing a hole in one tooth is about 10.000 sek in sweden, about 1000 USD. The only time toothcare gets covered is with cases like yours. That need a jaw/nose/ear doctor & the ER.
It's interesting with the painmed prescripton because I've had one fracture in my elbow and one on my knee (both required surgery with screws etc) and I got prescribed both OxyNorm and Targiniq which I ended up not using since I had basically no pain after surgery. So in some instances they do give heavier painmeds preemtively. But I guess protocol differs between orthopedic procedures and dental/infection treatment.
Those red streaks will get you help every time🙈 I had some tiny little wound/scratch on my toe that got infected once I couldn't wear my shoe, I called the vårdcentral, they let me see the nurse. As soon as she saw my foot she ran and got a doctor. Got antibiotics immediatly. So glad your doing better, what an ordeal.
In Sweden we have always had a problem with excessive caution, wait and see mentality. For example - antibiotics resistance is a real concern, but it's a global problem that needs to be solved on a global level in cooperation between states. But Sweden, true to the caution mentality, takes too much responsibility and goes totally overboard with NOT prescribing prophylactic antibiotics to patients that would benefit from it. It's a strange "we need to be best in class" mentality that perhaps is good on a global scale, but sometimes causes pain for individuals. Personally I don't like it.
Very strangely selectively “best in class” though - no concern about patients contracting Covid or other infections in the ER to battle that on top of the original issues.
Glad youre on the upswing🎉🎉🎉🎉 But... DONT CANCEL ME SMACK TALKING ABOUT SWEDEN ....BUT ..that was huge fail ...Antibiotics should most definitely been given day 1.... Here in the US , they ask you to take a day's worth of antibiotics before any invasive dental your procedures, even if it's teeth cleaning. As a nurse ...wasn't that going through your mind???? I sometimes watch your channel , and i notice you tend to give Sweden a pass for everything...and will often downplay their "systems" that don't really work ...and are very forgiving....The US is a mess and I'd rather not live here... but everything in SE isn't better. I hope moving forward in your content you'll be mindful, fair and honest about things Sweden needs to be better at😮
@@marcsi05Covid response was also an expression of the same excessive caution, this time for society. Instead of shutting down society to prevent infection, they went with the cautious approach to only limit some social spaces and recommend social distancing over mandating it. This time out of caution re the economy and freedom of movement rather than medicine. It was a compromise approach and I personally reckon it was successful.
I have been an ICU nurse in the US for 20 years. I treat pain as needed. I used the pain medication that is appropriate for the pain presented. My patients were very appreciative. Now there is a reluctance to adequately treat pain, and people are suffering.
Yea, I agree. I am a bit concerned with all the comments I am seeing regarding the lack of reasonable pain medication prescription as this leads to other problems such as poor life quality, decrease activities of daily living, and even suicide according to the literature. I fear the pendulum has swung too far the other way in reaction to fear of narcotic abuse. I have worked many years as well in intensive care back in Texas. I was very proud of how we cared for pain at that time. We had the occasional drug seeker or person who was a risk for misusing drugs but I am quite proud of how well we cared for these individuals broadly speaking.
I think the Swedish healthcare system has its pros and cons. Primary care is small in comparison to most or all other western countries. This can be quite irritating when you need to see a doctor for something that is not life threatening. But the flip side is that the quality of the hospital care is usually very high when you really need it, when you get severely ill. They also don't have age restrictions on treatments or therapies, as in many countries. My dad was diagnosed with lung cancer that had when he was 87. Despite his high age he still got a very expensive cancer treatment that worked really well.
I am a veterinary epidemiologist living in Belgium. I have experience of Swedish health care and Belgisan health care. In Sweden they put you on hold hoping you die prior to being properly taken care off. You do not have a personal health care providee, you simply hve the local regional health station, where no one is really responsible for anyone. My mom died because of the terrible Swedish care and all those that I talm to that have lived elsewhere say that Sweden is not the place to retire since health care is horrendous
I have heard complaints from elderly Swedish patients that have lived in other European countries. One of the ones I cared for in home health care lived in France for many years but had to move back to Sweden when they got older to be near family. She and her husband really missed the care provided in France.
In the US they would have given you a broad spectrum antibiotic and all this could have been avoided. Also I’ve never had to wait in ER here until Covid. 29:19
I've also been to the emergency room in Sweden and my experience blew me away with how well I was taken care of. As for antibiotics, I also feel like it's kind of strange how stingy they are with prescribing, but on the other hand Sweden is one of the best nations on the planet at fighting antibiotic resistance so I just trust that they know what they're doing and have done the calculations. Hopefully you were just an unlucky case and for everyone with your experience 5 less people die from antibiotic resistant bacteria.
Sorry you had to go trough that. It's been 4 weeks, so I hope you are better now. I've had a tilted wisdom tooth removed about 2 years ago in my home country of Germany. I did not have any risk factors for the surgery, but I still was prescribed an antibiotic (Amoxi-Clavulan 875/125 mg) to take a day before the surgery. (Except they can't prescribe 1 pill, so I got a 10 pack of which 9 remain wasted.) For after the surgery I got prescription-strength ibuprofen (600 mg instead of the over-the-counter 400 mg) and a bottle of metamizole (dipyrone) in case of the pain getting worse than the ibu could handle. Having had no complications, I didn't require either. That being my only experience with wisdom tooth extraction, I am kind of shocked they wouldn't give you any antibiotics when you already had cysts, nor provide anything other than over-the-counter painkillers for after the surgery, even after you had to go to the emergency room. It's not like ibuprofen and morphine are the only choices.
In Denmark this works somewhat inbetween the two systems. You're given one dose of painmeds/antibiotics for -certain- procedures, and then you're being checked up on to see if you need anything else. The reason it does not work like that in the US, is because going for a check up is an expensive affair. Here, you can just go, get checked out, and have your treatment adjusted as necessary. The system is built to give you exactly what you are meant to have. I think the biggest issue you had, was that you didn't come back when the problem remained/got worse. If you had gone immediately, or explained that you were in pain, you'd receive what you'd need. Here a treatment to more serious things is a process, not a one-and-done type deal. Just don't be afraid to return to the doctors if things aren't great.
That sounds like a pretty good system indeed. My issue was that the dental office was closed when I got into trouble and I did ask at four different locations for medication for pain. The first one did not feel comfortable doing that and said if it is that bad to go to the ER or wait till Monday to talk to the dentist who operated. The ER felt my issue was resolved as I was no longer having pain after the fluid was removed (which got much worse 3 hours after I got home). The jaw surgeon said they would do it but must have forgot to. So when I went to pick up my meds there was no pain meds to pick up, just antibiotics and by then the phone hours were closed at the surgeons office. I finally called the dental office the next day and got pain medication. I missed several nights of sleep from the pain and could not eat. The whole thing of going to the emergency room is a problem because they are not dental specialist. My experience both in the US and Sweden is there is a big disconnect between dental care and other health care concerns. I preferred to have someone who actually works with teeth and the jaw to look at me rather than a regular doctor who is not specialized in such things. I know many say "you should have gone back to the Emergency room" but the truth is I did not feel confident with them taking care of such a specialized area of the body. I would prefer to have someone who does this everyday to look at me. Another issue is that in my experience as a nurse in Sweden is there is some prejudice against someone asking for pain medication... that they are just "drug seeking". Just an observation as a nurse. I was talking with a doctor I work with here in Sweden. He was a professor and been around for decades... a lot of experience with many health care systems. He said this is a problem in Sweden. Health care is way too siloed. The body is divided into parts and different doctors take care of different parts. There are communication deficits among practices which results in risks to patient and delays in care.
I live in Denmark, and I had three wisdom tooth removed, also with infection in, the dentist prescribed antibiotics for one day before and three days after, but no pain medicine prescribed
I'm a Finn and we have the same policy here. Doctors don't prescribe antibiotics or strong pain medication easily. But I've always got a prescription for both, if I really needed it. Sounds like you would've absolutely needed it!
Across Europe there's a wide spectrum of practices on antibiotics and painkillers. I had a surgery in Greece and got IV antibiotics preventatively. Broken wrist + some titan screws and a plate. My doctor argued with SOS International, that did not want to cover the expence of extra hospital stays. In Sweden I would have been sent home. But Greece has EU:s worst record of deaths by multi resistance infections, so I'm happy I was out of there without any infection. Painkillers was restricted though. The first two nights I had to beg for a shot to be able to sleep. Back in Sweden I've had two orthopedic surgeries. Definitely no antibiotics. After orthopedic surgery screwing together a fractured ancle I got Oxycodone for a few weeks, and thereafter Paracetamol.
Interesting to hear. One thing I am proud of in Texas was pain management. If it got to be too complicated and we had concerns, we could consult the palliative pain management team and they were extremely good at their job.
I worked as RN in the States in hospital for 9 years, one thing I learned that if anyone gets complications, it's more than likely to happen to a nurse. Yeah, here in the Netherlands, first pain relief they prescribe is Paracetamol. Antibiotics usually given if CRP is high enough, but preventative antibiotics isn't given mostly to prevent antibiotic resistance. In the States they are more likely prescribed because people feel like they need that to feel better, even if it doesn't help. Because of "customer service " and customer satisfaction. But healthcare shouldn't be based on getting medication, especially if half the people don't need heavy pain meds or antibiotics.
Restrictions on pain meds really have gotten insane in Sweden, used to be much better just 5-6 years ago but now you're just screwed if you're in pain. Went to the ER a couple of times about a year ago, screaming in pain and the doctors just say "I don't prescribe morphine because of some people might become addicted" refering to the American opiod epidemic. The basically just checked to see if I was in any seriuos danger but couldn't find anything and sent me home, meanwhile I'm screaming in pain. I used to love the Swedish health care but there's something seriously wrong when doctors refuse to treat severe pain. What's worse is they're probably increasing the risk of addiction as people are forced to find other ways of dealing with the pain. I "managed" (didn't really get any sleep and my screaming probably kept some neighbours awake as well) without resorting to using any illegal drugs but others might not, in fact I know of some who didn't, just because the doctors refused to help them with their pain.
Interesting. I'm in Ireland and I've been having wisdom tooth pain and had a pocket of infection underneath it. My dentist immediately decided to take take it out, took it out in a few minutes and I'm day two now and the pain is subsiding. I'm back in two weeks for a follow up but he's on the end of the phone if I have any issues. I've just taken a couple of Neurofen and that takes the edge off the pain. Like that he didn't perscribe antibiotics. You can feel flu like after an infected wisdom tooth extraction.
Your tongue numbness can also just have been from your tooth extraction. They aren't always the best at telling you up front, but you can get nerve damage from the tooth extraction, and that can cause numbness. I couldn't feel the left side of my tongue for half a year after a particularly bad extraction:/
Yea I wonder about that too. The weird thing is the numbness was on the left side of the tongue. The tooth removed was on the right side. Very puzzling
Akuten is 400 kr per visit, but int goes in the högkostnadsskydd. We also have högkostnadsskydd for travel expences. Ihave hade antibiotics, both in the blood and mouth. 8 weeks antibiotics after my amputation. And at least 150 times in my blood the last 4 years for raised crp.
In sweden we don't have a big problem with antibiotic resistance, but there is a reason for it, in countries with more open views on antibiotics there are also bigger issues with resistance and I have seen what the result of that can be so I have mixed feelings about our stance but it is aimed for what is best for the community and there is a fine line to walk
I have a friend from the Pakistani elite (his dad was leading their creation of their nuclear weapons).
He lives here in Sweden and is highly educated.
He often makes outrageous claims about Pakistani mentality and science. The surprising thing is that I thought he was a fool but learned that he was a smart guy with shitty information.
He said that he got a shot every year. This was some type of peneceline that was supposed to kill everything bad that he had in his body.
I told him that no such drug existed and did my best to find evidence for my claim. I quickly learned that it does exist.
In Sweden it is used if your bowels burst or if you get an injury that is likely to kill you because of the massive amount of bacteria added to your system. In Pakistan they give this stuff to everyone that is rich/important or the offspring of such a person.
My reality isn't the same as theirs.
Everyone have a perfect hindsight but everything actually comes from statistics. Learn honest statistics to understand the problem.
and thats a problem, dosctors do not take into account - diets (very antibiotic reach food, even if it is different antibiotic) and foreigners. Basiclaly foreigners are treated wrongly in Scandivania - the doctors do no care they can bring different types of diseases or be ready exposed to some antibiotics. I remember being prescribed drug that was withdrawn 20 years ago I an country where I got sick...
Swedens stance on antibiotics causes people who for one or another reason do not want or have the possibility to go to the doctor to not get any help, its like they live in a time before the invention of these medicines.
That is how I have seen this subject play out in real life.
In many instances Swedish society threat its citizen like little children.
Hmm... I'm from Finland, and while we don't issue antibiotics that much. Probably in case of something like this, I would 100% except some, I had root sawed off as part of root canal operation that was infected, it was small surgery, and I definitely got some antibiotics. And actually the infection was pretty much gone after root canals that were done before actual surgery. So really those antibiotics were for the surgery.
Honestly antibiotic resistance is mostly coming from farming and very excessive use in some non western countries anyways. I don't think it should be issue at all if you are issued few antibiotics after surgery.
@@mukkaar like I said I do have mixed feelings about it. Here I would think most cases are imported. I work in an animalhospital and we try to be restrictive as well but within reason. Anyhow howdy neighbour.
As a nurse myself in Sweden I appreciate you sharing your perspective, thank you.
Wish you recover well✨️
Thank you so much!
Here in Sweden they are seriously worried about two things:
1. Antibiotica resistance.
2. Opioid addiction.
A couple of years ago there was a huge issue with Fentanyl Overdoses regarding people who had depressions.
this is mostly the reason for the aversion of prescribing opiod painkillers for Swedish medical society.
The antibiotica resistance is also something that is a massive issue in the World, Especially regarding cattle and live food production.
Sweden is probably the only country who takes this as the serious issue it is, For example Denmark and Germany usually premedicate cattle if only one animal has been sick whils swedish cattle usually gets antibiatoca as a last resort.
This means that the antibiotics are about 80-90% lower than the average eu country if i remember right.
Sadly this has an negative aversion for us regular patients in Sweden when it comes to diseases such as Lyme Disease where many of us have had to travel to Germany and even USA to get adequate treatment.
The there is the fact that our hospitals very much preffer us to cantact them if we have a minor complication rather than prescribe medication or painkillers.
both sides has pros and cons in this regards.
Best regards.
Also i would like to say that Private clinics in Sweden can be a little hit and miss.
Some of them are quite good with highly competent personel, but some are really bad.
Folktandvården are genrally best equipped to handle dental works and the regular specialists on the hospitals like the Dental specialists on Mölndal hospital in Gothenburg are usually the bests in the country.
Often the Specialist Doctors have a privet clinic and work on the regular hospital.
That's why you don't get it at hospitals if it's not really. Reeeeeeally needed.. and extra really needed.😂
@@Swede_4_DragonBeliever i just got information about a 5 hour surgery and i'll only be given alvedon after. this is a surgery that will take up to a year to recover from.
sweden is absurd.
No they just want you to suffer with endless pain.
@warwarneverchanges4937 yeeeeezzzzz we be zufferiiiing..thjis why our land Zweeden is named.
Ohh, be right back, baby need diaper change!
Where wazzz iii...?
i'm so sorry you had to go through that, but I am glad you were here in Sweden and able to experience the wonderful healthcare. I moved to Stockholm in the beginning of the 90s from Los Angeles. I didn't think much about the healthcare system when I came here but now that I am in my 70s I am so grateful for the wonderful, professional, and affordable care my Swedish husband and I receive. We are both very healthy for our age but the times we needed healthcare, its been amazing. I feel blessed to live here. I've heard some of my older Swedish friends say healthcare is not as good as it used to be, and I can't even imagine how it could be any better. I enjoyed your video and think you're a real sweetheart. krya på dig❤
These are the one of the reasons why I think the winner of the general last election in the US will be a disaster if he wants to take, or as he says "replace", away the ACA as he says he wants to do. Greetings from a half-American in nw. Stockholm.
It took a turn for the worse when they started selling out to venture capitalists, unlike the state they have to make a profit. My mother worked at two hospitals here and saw it first hand on both, they cut down staff and investments into new technology to increase profits. So it took longer and longer to get an appointment, they have less time with each patient and they can't offer the same quality as in the past (compared to other countries).
For things less covered like eyes and teeth then Thailand at least used to be popular, the quality is top notch and the price low, so you're basically getting a free vacation for the price. 🌞
Non emergency care is not as good as it used to be.
Thanks for the kindness!
I am on the edge of old and often hear 'it's not like the old days...' but what has really happened is that now we are old we need more care and most people get more cantankerous about their frailities but project it onto the healthcare system
In Europe in a hospital you're not a 'customer', you're a patient! There's no so-called customer service, you're just treated as a patient, the best they can.
this has started to change....
I've been an RN in five states in US and we call patients like they are, patients, and don't use the term customer. Maybe there are some places that do, but in a country of 340 + million people there are differences in different parts of the country. You can't expect everything to be the same.
I’ve been a patient a lot and have had a bunch of surgeries due to a congenital spinal cord injury. During 3 or 4 hospital stays I’ve been tested for multi resistant bacteria because some other patient was sick and had it. I’ve also had morphine pills and strong pain killers a lot and have felt how easy it would be to slip into an addiction. This is why it’s important not to over medicate.
Jag blev beroende och dricker metadon dagligen jag hoppas att du klarar dig utan men jag måste ha det för min värk samt beroende
@ Det låter hemskt, jag är ledsen att du hamnade i den situationen.
So interesting, thank you for sharing. I am a retired dentist, and I had basically the same routines, with antibiotics and painkillers. BUT my many years of experience as general dentist out in the rural parts of Northern Sweden, also made me do things differently. Impacted wisdom teeth surgery - extremely painful, prescribed small dose morphine for the first days, after that paracetamol + ibumetin. Risk for spreading bacteria due to infected cyst - depending on what I saw during surgery: most probably antibiotics. Already signs of infection prior to surgery ? - prophylactic antibiotics.
I never prescribed antibiotics as a routine, only if a patient had fever due to infected tooth.
And, if I could avoid it, no performing such surgery near the weekend.
I am. glad that you were treated with kindness and respect!
Really enjoying reading your input! Thanks for taking the time to share!
Wish you a speedy recovery and that you will feel better for each day. Glad and proud to hear of your positive experience of hospital care in Sweden. I can only agree with you. Have been hospitalised, been through major surgeries and treatments during the past 3 years and I have nothing but love for all the people I’ve met during these years. Their excellent care is a big part of me being able to get through it all. ❤
In Swedish healthcare you are NEVER a "customer" you are a patient. Nothing else. And we care for our patients
But our queues are just unacceptable
in Canadian healthcare, you are a client
In the United States, you are a patient as well. I was a patient in Germany and once hospitalized in France and the best care I ever received was in the United States. Wouldn’t want to be a patient anywhere else!
Actually, I'm trying to teach totally careless and respectless health 'care' workers in germany, that their patients are actually customers. They are not to be treated over their heads or against their will or seen as a pet to offer some food to when its convenient. The germans really have to learn to value their patients and see that they in fact are customers, who don't have to go to their hospital, but can choose another one, as this one fails to provide good care. The only problem is, that the next hospital usually is affected by the same rotten mentality.
I remember a Swedish police officer once claim to an American police officer that arrested suspects in Sweden are "customers", and I feel like this was an accidental mistake from a non-native speaker, because nobody in Sweden calls suspects "kunder" ("customers");
a suspect would be called a "misstänkt", or a "misstänkt person".
I did spend 5 days in the ER after dislocating my shoulder, had 2 surgery's and loads of x-rays and visits to doctor/rehab and such, cost me like $300 for it all (Sweden), and i would agree with not giving antibiotics for everything, resistant bacteria's is a serious threat.
As a swede it's very interesting to hear your story. I hope you get well quick!
As a Spanish person living in Malmö for 18 months and having lived in other countries, I can only say that the Swedish health service is the best I have had the opportunity to try.
Every time I have gone to the hospital I have always felt very well.
I'm so glad you're feeling better, best wishes from Malmö.
Thanks so much!
That's both nice and disheartening to hear. As a malmöit myself I think the health care here is generally not great. Except when I was in the ER and ICU. They were amazing there. But for minor things, and worst of them all, psychiatry? Absolutely awful.
@ thanks for contributing 🙏🏻
I moved to Sweden from Hungary 2009 as a 19 year-old. I havent had the "chance" to try the Hungarian hospitals as I was young and healthy. But 3 years ago I fell sick and in the hospital in Sweden they discovered colon cancer that had spread to various places in my abdomen. I had an acute surgery first followed by a planned surgery. During the planned surgery they used a method that, as I had heard, doesn't even exist in the USA because it is so expensive. They basically poured warmed cytostatics in the abdomen and sew it up. They then had to poke four holes on the sides of my abdomen to let the cytostatic fluid drain during the following days. The nurses told me that the operation and treatment I got was the toughest that existed and had i been older or less physically fit then it would not have been possible to undergo it as I would have died during the procedure.
Jag hoppas att du blev bättre av den behandlingen. ❤❤❤
I guess that move in 2009 saved your life. It’s strange how we make decisions every day, without knowing which consequences they can have even many years later 😊
Hope you are well and cancer free now ☺️
Warm chemo also exists in the US
@galaxia4709
And how much does it cost? Of course it exist in the US, we are talking about that she got her treatment paid by all taxpayers in Sweden. Do you do that too in the US?
@@galaxia4709
Her treatment cost about $650 per year for her in total. The rest is covered via Swedish taxpayers.
Including:
All Surgeries.
Radiation.
Consults with cancer specialists.
Hospital stays.
ALL medications.
Transport in ambulance when needed.
Rehabilitation.
Psychological help.
Etc etc.
Such an excellent account of your horrific ordeal. Hope you make a complete recovery.
I really appreciate that! Every day is better. I have a follow up in two weeks with the jaw surgeon. 2 weeks more of antibiotics. The CT showed ongoing inflammation but that the infection is at bay. The treatment for inflammation is the same as infection... antibiotics. So I am still on Penicillin.
Krya på dig!@@becurious2000
@@becurious2000 it is interesting how it is a bit different here in Norway, I had oral surgery pretty similar to you, impacted wisdom teeth, but i only did one at a time and had to wait 6 months for the other, so as my manidible would not break, i got an antibiotics course of 7-10 days, both times, along with a 50 pack with low grade vicodin (palgrin forte), so i find it weird you didn't get at least ABs after the surgery.
I'm not in the dental field, but I am an infection biology masters student here in sweden. From what I've been taught so far, the true is that more and more bacteria will become resistant to more and more antibitics as it's a trend that's been seen with many bacteria, especially for bacteria that are commonly associated with many different infections. For example staphylococcus aureus is a common bacteria in the micro flora in multiple tissues on us humans, but a smaller portion of the species have become penicilin resistant making an infection that used to only occur as an effect of something else and was easy to treat extremely difficult to get rid of
What you say is true. This situation has sent me down the rabbit hole of reading through a lot of the research on this matter. What I am seeing is pretty much in line with what you are saying with a caveat. According the a lot of the research articles I have found, there are also risk associated with "antibiotic avoidance" including serious complications. I think what I am seeing here is the application of the 80 percent on the 20 percent. In other words, what is good for the 80 percent group gets applied to the other 20 percent of the population that it is not appropriate for. (80 and 20 percent are arbitrary numbers I am using metaphorically to illustrate a point).So in my case, I would have been in the so called 20 percent group but got "standardized care" which was not optimal in my case. I fear this is a problem not just in Sweden but world wide as many times doctors are so focused on treating patients based on standardized guidelines rather than treating patients as individuals. The standards are a protection and helpful but one should not be so reliant and them that they lose critical thinking skills. One thing I learned when I became a prescriber in Texas was, that when a patient presents to you with symptoms, you generally think of the typical causes for their symptoms all the while being cognizant that maybe 1 out of 5 people with those symptoms have it for another reason. I think it is a very complex issue especially when considering oral surgery. The mouth is a very dirty place and it is very difficult to keep clean after surgery. There are known risks associated with bacteria from the teeth getting into the blood stream and migrating somewhere else. By withholding antibiotics in my case to prevent resistance we have now increased my risk for antibiotic resistance as now I have been on 5 weeks of antibiotics and have damage to my jaw from the infection which is going to take a long time to heal. I think the key is good prescribing stewardship rather than just a treating every patient the same. Possibly we could have reduced my risk for antibiotic resistance and complications by having a milder prescription for a few days as opposed to weeks or months on two different antibiotics.
@becurious2000 as far as I can tell, such policies are based on populations and are often so rigidly applied that there's no room for clinician input until a situation becomes emergency level.
Too many policymakers forget that medicine isn't an exact science
I'm what some polite clinicians call "atypical" in my presentation so I'm very accustomed to the interesting experience of numerous members of various teams standing around me and making helpful comments
Edited to add-: first time I've had a relevant ad on RUclips - toothpaste 😂
@ 🤣 love the tooth paste comment 🤣
My aunt's husband became a drug addict after getting pain medicine for his back. He got their whole family deep in dept and she had to pay off for years after divorcing him, living on just the very basics with the kids - not to mention the human suffering. Perhaps your willingness to tough it out and general bravery made them think you'd be fine without heavier meds. Addiction is not a complication you want even for your worst enemy.
I agree. About 20 years ago l was offered the cool drugs but refused and was hence given A LOT OF THEM, so I could use them if needed.
I don't know how other people react in this situation but I took everything I was given. Who am I to disagree with the experts.
I hear you.I have a friend who got addicted and ended up in jail for stealing drugs from his patients. He had never had pain meds, hurt his shoulder in a skiing accident, and was prescribed the same medication you give to cancer patients- way too strong of medication.
Sweden is very restrictive prescribing opioids/morphine when not necessary. They only do it to those who other pain meds doesn’t work anymore but that is still very controlled and restricted.
I have had very stopping, potentially addictive pain medication because I was in severe pain. When I was no longer in pain I stopped the medication. I am not addicted.
Pain medication needs to be given cautiously but we must not demonise the medication and stop those who need it from being prescribed or.
@@becurious2000 I found this very interesting, as a chronic pain patient in Sweden. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I think when it comes to pain killers, Sweden has gone too far in the restriction. I've had chronic pain for over a decade, and been tossed around like a hot potato in health care. Even the pain specialists are so restrictive, I've tried so many medications with horrible side effects (anti-depressants, anti-epileptics, allergy meds... Anything but actual painkillers!) for a decade and only got worse. Finally, last year, when my pain was so bad I couldn't sleep or eat and the health care kept stalling and pushing my appointment forward, I went private. And got adequate pain relief for the first time, after seeking help since I was 14. It literally took 20 years. The first 10 was just to get a diagnosis, and even then I didn't get any help.
I would have thought that the pain specialist at the hospital, who'd been putting me off for 6 months, offered a morphine plaster in the meantime that made me horribly sick, would have been thrilled! After 20 years, I finally had adequate pain relief, that's cause for celebration?! Nope. He just said that Swedish pain specialist don't belive there's any evidence that cannabis has any pain relieving effects. 🤦🏼♀️
Good to see that you are on your recovery path!! Best of luck!!
The opiod crisis in the US is a big reason why Sweden is so restrictive on pain meds. But I agree with you on the antibiotics, you should have had that from the start.
whole citys lying on the ground or stand like zombies i hope we never get that here in sweden
Sweden wont risk antibiotic immunity.
You should have antibiotics WHEN and IF you have bacterial infection (proven) with serious symptoms. We do not need to develop severe resistance to the antibiotics
Preoperative antibiotics used to be standard in Sweden too, however that has changed due to no proven benefits - higher risk of complications with antibiotics than without.
It's better to be careful with antibiotics, just look at France. 🙈
I hope you feel better very soon. I think specialist care and ER care here in Sweden are fantastic. At the base GP level, it's a lottery if you get a good doctor or not. I broke my wrist badly this summer and the ER, surgery and follow up cost the equivalent of approx 70 USD. Thats when you really appreciate the health care system. Take care!
I've worked in swedish healthcare, it was very captivating to hear your story. Thank you for the video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
20:50 This is something Swedish healthcare really needs to work on. Sending people home with "call us if it gets worse" is seemingly not good enough. I've heard this time and again, people being told that they should have come back in. People are not doctors, some will soldier through after being sent home, against their own judgement, a doctor sent them home in the first place, after all. I wonder what, if there's any, evidence we have for the current state of affairs. Maybe people are even worse at making judgement calls if they are given criteria from their doctors.
As for geting pain meds, it can be extra difficult for people with ASD. Communicating levels of pain and discomfort seems to be more difficult and seems to be taken less seriously. That's also something I hear a lot. Clear, firm, maybe even blunt verbal communication seems to be the key.
Good points
I broke a rib. They sent me home the day after and told me to come back in if I needed. As a Swede I knew that meant "call 1177". When you call 1177, you give them all your symptoms, and they will tell you if you need to go back to the hospital or not.
I don't remember what pain meds I got, just that they didn't work and that I couldn't drive a car while taking them.
It's also a generational thing. Boomers _really_ don't want to be a "nuisance" to the point of being a risk to themselves. And it's almost impossible to get them to do something against the doctors orders/recommendations. (I'm generalizing of course.)
My dad is a perfect example. He's been on an antihistamine for some nose issues for at least 6 years by now. It was supposed to treat his symptoms in a couple of weeks but it took 3 years. I've tried to get him to at least _entertain_ the idea that his recovery had nothing to do with the antihistamin but he can't stop clinging to "the doctor said I should take this" so he won't even bring it up with a doctor now🤦♀
@ very interesting 🤔
What is ASD? I don't like anachronyms!
Not the same as when cysts, and pus is involved, but I didn't get, nor need pain killers when I went through the procedure of getting a titan tooth implant screw. I think it's one of those things where if it turns out that you did need stronger painkillers, and/or antibiotics, you're going to wish you had gotten it from the start, but I presume that they have statistical numbers showing that the majority doesn't actually need it.
I've got a dental implant screwed in as one of my front teeth. It was completely painless recovery for me as well. But here in Finland I've always been given a single prophylactic antibiotic during the visit whenever I've had a tooth extracted if there has been an infection in the root. But nothing for after (and never needed any after).
They err on the side of caution here in Aotearoa/ New Zealand as well and only prescribe antibiotics as a last resort. They're also cautious over pain relief, especially opioids. I have to say l much prefer our approach and am always shocked when l hear of people from other countries being given antibiotics for viruses, colds and flu and the like. I would lose faith in my Dr if he even suggested such a thing.
You know you are so right. The two big factors that stand out to me for antibiotic resistance is giving them for things that are viral which I am proud to say in the USA I think most newer trained healthcare workers understand and the other being patients stopping the medication before it’s finished just because they feel better. I think we are learning now we should not be afraid of antibiotics but use them cautiously. In my case we are learning I should have gotten them right from the beginning based on the nature of my surgery. In fact the CT shows no infection now this week but still inflammation of which the treatment is the same for … antibiotics. Apparently I had ongoing inflammation because so much bone was removed and when the antibiotics were stopped it came back. I see this a lot with our patients with foot wounds. The antibiotics really help a lot in many cases. The key is having a knowledgeable and competent provider who is up to date with current trends and is not ruled by fear to give patients appropriate care. Patients should not suffer because a provider is to afraid to do the right thing for the patient as an individual. I am proud to say the physicians I work with are quite competent here in Sweden in my department and do an excellent job.
@becurious2000 Well said. I nearly had a conniption (such a lovely old word, l can't resist using it) when a friend offered another friend some of their "left over" antibiotics. I couldn't believe anyone could be that stupid and it took me quite some time to explain that they were actually contributing to the breeding of antibiotic resistant strains. It sounded dreadful and l hope you're on top of it now.
@@nikiTricoteuse I love that word! 😂 my grandma used to say “I am going to have a conniption fit” 😂
@@nikiTricoteuse Back in 2001 when I was in American Samoa they had a bucket with antibiotics behind the reception. Handed it out like candy.
@@Dönaellerdö 😱
As a tourist in New York, we got very inadequate healthcare. The Swedish doctors couldn't believe that they prescribed such a low dose of antibiotics for an ear infection and as a result, my sister partially lost hearing on one of her ears.
Oh my 😟
Glad you got to the hospital in time. As a swede with a couple of scares myself, I have always been extremly grateful for the healthcare we recieve here. Hope you get better quick and take care now.
In Sweden it isn't completely free: The ambulance cost about $30 (yes, thirty, not thirty thousand) and each day in the hospital cost about $10. All medicine, x-rays, tests, etc including meals are included. Compared to USA it is free :)
It is so much cheaper than in Finland. Don't know about ambulance but night in a hospital is 170euros and price is getting higher.
Nothing is free. It is paid through taxes.
@@perrob People DO know that. I'm Canadian and like all Canadians, we are fully aware that our taxes are paying for our healthcare. We also know how it works...that pooling our monies helps our governments to find the best prices for resources...like drugs, supplies, doctors and nurses, equipment.
In Stockholm ambulance is free. It all depends on were you live.
@@Gwennedd I dont agree with usa health system but Sweden has horrendous taxes and a fraction goes to health care
You are never a costumar in Norway either. You are always a patient ❤ We are also carefull with strong painmeds and antibioticts. For good reasons...Greetings from a Norwegian nurse ❤
antibiotic resistance
I’m really sorry you’ve had to go through this. But it’s also comforting to know that you are well-taken cared of. As someone who has been on the receiving end of emergency care due to an (at that time) unknown tumor (not cancer), I also ended up being one of the odd 0.1% people who got something really rarely and practically unheard of ‘thing’ that is only ever mentioned as ‘possible’ in ‘theory’. It’s easy to look back and think:”they should have done this differently.” When in reality we are the odd ones out in the statistics. We are the exception. I feel you, truly, and all I can really say is that we got some shit luck. I don’t really think anyone did anything wrong here. You and I just happened to be the odd ones out.
(from sweden) I have had my wisdom teeth removed, (also also did upper jaw surgery so I know that world quite well) I did the wisdom teeth surgery in 2 parts, first one side, heal, then the other side. And the second time I got an infection. Didn't have much problem with pain or sickness but I've got prescribed antibiotics. And luckily for me, some hour after I took the antibiotic, I was standing in the bathroom and just pushed at the swollen cheek, and liquid started pouring into my mouth, so I just spit it out and filled my mouth over and over again. I drained the infection by my self. So I guess I was lucky with the complication. I can't imagine pain you must have felt
I also experienced being denied antibiotics in Sweden but the nature of it all with the resistance build-up it's really hard to know what's correct and not. In your case it was obviously a bad choice but in mine I have no idea, I've not been close to dying from it or getting seriously hurt.
I've spent a lot of time at Sahlgrenska and Östra in Göteborg. If you are in pain and are admitted, or in the ER, you can ask for a morphine injection and they'll usually do it for you. I had them do that when I was having trouble walking from a joint bleed. (I have hemophilia). I've been here for 18 years now. ;)
We don’t have as much resistens like MRAS as other countries. Sweden saw a problem early.
I generally agree with the reluctance to handing out antibiotics like candy. Even so, a case like this, where they’re literally removing infected cysts from quite deep in the jaw area, with all the potential complications that come with that - that sounds like a place where prescribing antibiotics up front should be warranted.
100 %
It was interesting to hear your stiry. Very sorry you had to go through all this, but I'm happy you feel better.
Sweden's out-of-pocket maximum for doctors' visits and medication is $140?! That part of Sweden's health care beats the USA's by leaps and bounds!
Yup! I am hearing it varies by region of the country a little but that’s my cost here where I am.
I’m English and I’m surprised about that too but for a different reason. We don’t pay anything to see a doctor, for a doctor home visit or for a hospital visit or drugs prescribed in hospital. It’s covered by taxes which are not as high as in Sweden.
@juliebrooke6099 do you have to pay anything for tests like CT scans? I live in the USA, and my #1 complaint is having to pay hundreds of dollars in insurance copayments for diagnostic tests and procedures like colonoscopies. Insurance companies should at least cover testing at 100%. It's inhumane to charge people just to find out if they have something serious going on.
@ ,no you don’t but your family doctor has to request the test or procedures. You can’t order them yourself.
@juliebrooke6099 Our primary care doctor has to order the tests, too. There are a few private companies that provide the scans, but of course, they're very expensive. People go to the emergency department at hospitals in hopes of getting a scan so they can be billed for it later, and that drives up hospital costs for everyone, but I understand why they do it.
Thanks for the video. It's interesting to hear a foreigners perspective. I've never had tooth surgery but I did have brain surgery and only had paracetamol and ibuprofen as pain killers after the surgery day. When I had gallbladder surgery I got morphine to take home but didn't use it. I can't remember the last time I had to take antibiotics. I think it's smart to be restrictive with prescribing antibiotics but you should absolutely get it when you need it.
OMG Brandon you have been though it, glad your getting well, well done to all the Swedish doctors dentist, nurses, they are worth there weight in gold, look after yourself,lots of love from Linda in Scotland xxx💙❤️🩹🇸🇪💊
My experience is that they do prescribed pain killers with codein or something similar after you have this kind of pain. I've never been denied heavy pain killers if needed. Antibiotics though, yes, we're careful with that.
Interesting difference in praxis compared to Finland: I have just had an artificial root put in last Monday, and I have still one and a half days left of the routine course of antibiotics (Kefexin) that the dental surgeon prescribed.
I did have some swelling and pain, but otherwise things seem to be going well.
Best of luck for your healing!
Hi from Dalarna Sweden.
I had the same problem after impacted wisdom tooth operation. But i had covid so i couldn't get it drained, but i got antibiotics straight away.
But it took me almost 3 weeks before i could open my mouth and eat properly. It was the worst.
Good you are feeling better.
Oh my! Sounds similar to me. Yea I am getting better each day
Me too I'm very satisfied with the care they gave me one year ago.
I was standing on my porch watching Aurora when I felt this indescribable pain in my chest, it was so bad that I collapsed when I came to my senses I went to my neighbour because I thought I couldn't manage to make a call when I came to the end of my porch I got the second attack and collapsed again, the third time I had just knocked on my neighbour's door. I just remember him shouting to his wife to call an ambulance. They drove me to Gällivare 100 km at the hospital they discovered that I had an aneurysm and dissection of my aorta so they decided to fly me to Umeå, (500km). When I was waiting for the next ambulance to drive me to the plane I had a stroke during the operation in Umeå (8,5 hours) I got pneumonia and my kidneys and liver started to strike, and for the first time in my life, I gained weight (12 kg) due to my kidneys not working, thanks to dialysis that went away almost just as fast. After just over 2 weeks at the ICU they drove to the airport and flew me (300km), to another ICU near Luleå where I spent the next 15 days, another ambulance and another flight (250km) I was back in Gällivare spent just a month in a normal care unit and then they drove me back To Jokkmokk where I spent just 2 days in the hospital. My 2 sisters and husbands and my brother came from the Netherlands to stay by my side and even though I don't remember anything they said it felt so amazingly comforting to have them there, they told me later that they experienced the care I got as even better than in the Netherlands (they have had kids on the ICU). There was in my case never any discussion about antibiotics or drugs they have been giving me different forms of anti-biotics the first week because I was critical and then they just gave what they thought would do the job. I don't remember much from the first 2 weeks other than that I felt so good to have my family and kids by my side and all the most wonderful drugs they gave me (I'm an experienced user, was an addict on and off for 30 years, clean for 10 years now). So Yeah I am very grateful for the excellent care I received the only negative thing I can say is that the food in Gällivare hospital was horrible. But the staff was so incredibly nice that even though it's a year later I'm still touched when I think about them.
Oh my goodness! What a story! Thanks for sharing! I am so glad you are with us.
happy to here you doing better know!! that sounds scary!!
Hope you are doing well today! All the best!
Had myself an disection of the internal carotid artery, the pain I felt and before anyone believed me (days) was the most difficult time of my life. This was at the age of 30 and my wife in 8 months expecting our first. All went well, after 300 pills of blood medicin I am now 40 and feeling stronger then ever.
Sometimes life gives you a second chance
@ whoa 😳 what an experience. Glad you are doing well!
@@becurious2000 Likewise, and a speedy recovery!
Earlier this year i had a wisdom tooth surgery. My dentist recommended me to have one quite soon even though it did not bothered me. Couse when you are younger you heal a lot faster. Im 34. So i did. I did not have any cyst nor pain before but they wanted that thing out. It was pushing on its neighbor and caused damaged in that one, later had a root canal on that one. At the same time I took blood thinners so trying to stop the bleeding afterwards was annoying, but i got there. I find it strange that they did not recommend doing anything in the US.
Before the surgery and after i took some special mouth wash to clean the mouth with. For pain they usually recommended Alvedon and Ipren but as i was on blood thinners i could not take Ipren. They prescribed me some morphin which i did not use since i was okey with the Alvedon (paracetamol).
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Hearing how, in the midst of your own pain and suffering, you managed to also think about the wellfare of other people (by not wanting to overburden the healthcare system) is so heartwarming. Shows what a deeply considerate and trusting person you are.
As a farmer with livestock here in Sweden I've come to understand a few things about antibiotic resistance and why we in Sweden are so restrictive and careful.
First of all antibiotic restistance in the West is driven by a combination of factors, both over- and misuse in the medical profession and over- and misuse in livestock production. The routine use of antibiotics (ab) in livestock is often to promote growth and prevent disease as most livestock (that is not out on pasture) is kept in overcrowded and unhygeinic conditions. Resistant bacteria develop and spread to humans through direct contact with animals, consumtion of undercooked (and even sometime well cooked) meat that's been contaminated and can carry resistant genes if cross-contamination occurs in food processing or preparation (ie foodborne transmission), and environmental exposure (water, soil). For example, manure from livestock can contaminate water and soil, spreading resistant bacteria that can enter the human food supply through crops irrigated with conamtinated water or through direct contact with the environment.
In the U.S. and Europe concerns have been growing over the potential of "superbugs" originating in agricultural settings to spill over to the human population. Overall, the overuse of antibiotics in livestock farming significantly inreases the number of rb in the environment and human population, making it more challenging to treat infections and increases the burden on public health systems worldwide. Reducing unnecessary anbtibiotic use in agriculture is a key part of combating antibiotic resistance.
It's very important that people understand that this is one of the prices we have to pay for CHEAP ABUNDANT FOOD. Keeping animals confined in small spaces increases the profitability of production but it's patients like yourself as well as the wider community and society that is paying a hefty price. If food was more expensive and animals could be kept in better conditions this issue would probably not be as dire as it currently it. In Sweden it's not allowed to give antibiotics to animals for growth or pre-emptivly to combat disease so we are trying to do our part. But this is a worldwide problem and considering an estimated 40% of all food produced is wasted and thrown away it seems like such an ineffective and wasteful agrifood system we’ve created for ourselves.
Glad you're feeling better!!
I always enjoy your feedback and your channel! I like watching your channel to help me improve my Swedish. I am hoping long term to follow your path and live off the land... sort of a homestead type of life. Thanks again for the nice comments and information!
@ best of luck with that. Compared to the rest of Western Europe Sweden is pretty affordable if you’re looking to find a house and some land (at least in the north). And with you background as a nurse I’m sure you’ll be able to find work near a city or larger town.
@ 🙏🏻
Sorry to hear about your problems. Hope you recover quick and good.
Also, you're welcome.
In Finland as I got taken wisdom tooth out I did get Penicillin and pain killers.. Paracetamol and Ibuprofen .. both for a couple of days. It's really hard to get strong opioid based pain killers here.. and generally it's not needed. I have some stronger ones (even those are not opioid based) that I got for my neck pain that was pushing some nerve and radiating to my arm.
I think it's kinda standard if you have bigger operation in your mouth the antibiotics are quite important since you have a lot of bacteria and growing grounds for them in the mouth.
The second time I had to take out wisdom tooth from the other side it was a faster procedure .. no surgery, just pulled out so I think it was only pain killers then.
Seems pretty reasonable 👍🏻 yea the mouth holds a lot of bacteria as you say . 👍🏻
Agreed. After a significant tooth-related surgery I had done about 15 years ago I was prescribed both antibiotics and morfine to lessen the extreme pain. I was glad, because it really helped, but on the other hand I'm also not a proponent of handing out heavily addictive drugs 😅
None the less, I think our system works well for what it is and the tax money we put into it, and if even more funds were directed that way I think it would only get better. But I don't think the healthcare here is any better than in Finland, Germany, France, Spain or elsewhere. It's just about pros and cons essentially 😊
Local anaesthetics do not work well in infected tissue because the pH is low due to pus and the local anaesthetic molecules cannot pass into the nerve cells. The blood supply to the area also increases, which washes the local anaesthetic out of the tissues.
US here, with a shoulder replacement. My dentist always prescribes antibiotics prior to and after any invasive procedure, so any open oral surgery. Where I live you would have been hospitalized with IV antibiotics with those symptoms.
In Denmark it is the same as Sweden. You only get antibiotics if you have an infection, you can’t treat something which is not there. Pain medication is probably a little more relaxed here, but you would only get like 10-20 tablets.
I have no idea why this video was recommended to me but I’m glad I saw it! :)
I have had equally sensitive, kind and quick ER treatment right here in the U.S. when I fell on my head.
So sorry you were so sick and had such a difficult time, got good care and am now better.
Wow I am so sorry I have never heard about anything this bad. Taking out bad teeth/cheeck situations is truly never fun.... I never had a cyst but I had a tooth that had grown into my cheechbone so they didn´t really want to touch that either because of the nerv damage. I am surprised about you not getting antibiotics earlier... My tooth was removed after becoming bad again after 4 antibiotic cures. I lost sensation in my whole left side of the cheek and my lip for almost 6 months after the surgery and now 2 years after all sensation is finally back. So it can take a really long time for the nerves to heal. Cannot imagine the horror you have experienced. Hope you heal fast! I
I’m so glad to hear your sensation returned, glad for you (of course!) but also to hear there is hope should that happen to me since I’m in a similar situation (wisdom teeth roots too close to the nerve to remove safely). I hope you recover fully!
Oh my goodness! Yea I am scared about the other one because they say it is right by the nerve and there is a risk for nerve damage.
Good to see that you are doing better - best of luck getting fully well!
I'm surprised. I thought our healthcare system had collapsed way more than what you described. Your experience sounds like what it used to be like 20-30 years ago when I was a kid. Can't say I've had any good experiences with our healthcare in a long time and I kind of gave up on the system when I had tonsillitis a few years ago.
I sought medical care after 3 weeks, they sent me home without proper examination - it was at the "jour" (for non-Swedes, jour is like when another company runs healthcare during after-hours in place of the regular one) after regular hours.
After that, I endured for another 3 weeks but at that point, I was unable to talk and had to push air out in order to make sounds. I called the medical advice service and they said I should go see a doctors again, so I did. After seeing a doctor, I was prescribed a 10 day antibiotics cure but didn't fully recover. On the 10th day, I called the medical advice service once again and they said I should go see a doc at the "jour" in the evening and once I was there, they examined me and concluded I still had a bacterial infection and sent me home without treatment.
At that point, I had been ill for 2 months already and I became completely disillusioned with society and just lost hope entirely. In total, I had pain in my throat and cough for 10 months straight and gave up on our wellfare system and especially the healthcare as a whole. I'm a native Swedish person and my ancestors have been Swedish on both sides for about 10 generations.
I must say though, I am actually genuinely happy to hear that you had a good experience with our healthcare despite the complications! Also, that consideration of not wanting to burden the system and being reluctant to call an ambulance - that sounds very "Swedish" to me. I've noticed people have gotten more self-centered lately, especially during the past 8-10 years.
With regards to your over all experience, I can say that when you arrive at the emergency room, they prioritize the most acutely ill patients first so if you'd been there with something less severe (like a fractured leg for example), you might've had to wait a really long time.
All-in-all, this video honestly made me think that maybe there is still some hope in our society and maybe it's just where I live now that things are especially bad.
I enjoyed reading your comments! Thanks!
Your video was recommended to me by the algorithm, but I have had lots of experience with the Swedish healthcare system due to a genetic heart condition that I have that was actually discovered while I've lived here. This year is my 20th anniversary of living in Sweden.
About 8 years ago, it was discovered through a routine physical exam that I have an AV Block III and had to get a pacemaker in. From the moment it was discovered to when I was sent to the emergency room, I got excellent care and it all happened very quickly. They even sent me on an over hour long ambulance ride to another hospital to get an MRI! They wanted to get a good image of my heart before the implant. They do NOT play around with heart conditions! Fast forward to today and it's progressed to me now having dilated cardiomyopathy. My cardiologist just couldn't understand how a woman my age (early 50s) could have these issues and ordered genetic testing for me. Turns out I have a laminen mutation which is the cause of all of this. There's nothing that can be done. So, now they have me on 5 different meds and I had my second pacemaker implant (CRT-P) in 2022.
I cannot say enough good things about the care I have gotten here. It's been amazing and I've paid next to nothing out of pocket for it! I would absolutely be bankrupt if this had all happened in the US.
I'm realy surprised you didn't get antibiotics when you had the wisdom teeth surgery. Besides the pacemaker surgery, I've also had a minor gyno type surgery and they put me on antibiotics to prevent any infections that could occur in both cases. I would think they would have considered wisdom teeth surgery to be similar, but I guess not? Really sorry you had to suffer through that infection!
Thanks for sharing! Yea I am so glass they take heart issues seriously. I had heart trouble this summer after my dad passed away. They got right on it! I am super grateful for that.
Interesting! My grandson has recently had a cyst in his chin, full of inflammation, so he's been operated on, but it has hitherto gone well.
I wish you a quick recovery! Thank you for sharing this story!
Thank you for reminding me that some things can work well here in Sweden. My own experience of healthcare is completely horrible.
Mine to!
Having almost died from sepsis I fully understand what you went through.
From the story you're telling I think your dentist friend is the cog that broke the machinery in this case. Based on how complicated the surgery was to begin with they should have kicked your butt over to the emergency room right away when there was a problem. Not Folktandvården or any other wait and see solution. The idea is you don't get antibiotics until you need it and early signs of infection would be an excellent reason to get on antibiotics. I'm glad your other friend drove you there later, it would have been miserable to use public transportation in that state. Glad you're feeling better and hope it keeps improving!
😆 thanks 🙏🏻
That sounds like a terrible experience with the infection, so sorry you had to go through that.
It seems like it depends on the surgeon if you receive antibiotics or not. I had to remove a partially impacted wisdom tooth a week ago and the surgeon told me beforehand that if he thinks it necessary he will prescribe me antibiotics. However, it wasn't necessary this time and my recovery has been very smooth. So for my surgeon at least it's a case by case thing, which I think is the way to go. Don't overdo it, but in some circumstances it's warranted.
I hope you're feeling much better now so you can enjoy a nice Christmas. Greetings from Stockholm! ✨
A very balanced approach. 😊 . I hope you have a nice time with friends and family 🙏🏻
I love the medical services here, but there are certian situations where you need to be your own advocate or have one with you. That being said they are very big on looking at the community as a whole when it comes to antibiotics and pain meds. They don't want to created problems that may put the community at risk. I've been in both the Swedish and American systems and there are, like you said, good in both, but at the end of the day I prefer Sweden.
thanks for your story, sorry you have had such a horrific dental/jaw problem. Hope you are feeling better now...
There is a BIG reason antibiotic and pain killers are last resort, this is because the more used in general of antibiotics the more resistant antibiotics bacteria develops to the point our antibiotics will stop working, as a nurse you should know this. Also much painkillers drugs are very addicted so you can end up become drug addicted.
Never take drugs unless you really need.
Yes of course I know this. In fact, I was a prescriber in the USA. The point I am making is we should use good stewardship when prescribing. Antibiotic and pain medicine withholding is not the answer either. A balanced approach is needed. Note this quote from a study "On the other hand, withholding antibiotics might potentially carry risks and reduced antibiotic prescribing in general practice is associated with a small increase in complications such as treatable pneumonia and peritonsillar abscess (National Library of Medicine, 2020)." There are many other such references that point out that the answer to dealing with antibiotic resistance is not so simple. There is a lot of nuance to this problem. I saw another study done in the Netherlands that showed worsening of dementia symptoms of patients that did not receive antibiotic treatment compared to those that received treatment. The issue is more complex than just not giving or giving antibiotics. I have been on antibiotics now for 6 weeks which has increased my risk for complications and resistance to antibiotics which could have been reduced by a prophylactic treatment of a few days. I may now have long term damage to my jaw due to the inflammation I got, I missed many days of work, used a lot of resources that could have gone to help other people, ect. I work in a department here in Sweden that is NOT afraid of prescribing antibiotics for those who need it but the physicians I work with are extremely competent and confident. I can say for a fact that they are excellent stewards of pain management and antibiotic prescribing. I myself am reluctant to take antibiotics but I know when it is necessary. I have had more people coming out of the wood work lately in Sweden that I know personally who have had similar issues from getting similar procedures performed on them in Sweden which is in stark contrast to the mostly good anecdotal reports I am hearing from acquaintances who had their wisdom teeth removed in the USA. The problem is we had for years had prescriptions written for things that were viral rather than bacterial as well as the fact that patients would stop taking the antibiotics because they felt better even though they had not completed the prescribed regimen. This definitely needed to be addressed but I fear the pendulum has swung too far the other way.
@@becurious2000 You are actually wrong, and the reason is that scandinavian medical care is far beyond US. Even with major surgery antibiotics are not automatic. Of course there are a few that need extra treatment, but the care is evidence based. you dont blanket bomb antibiotics on all, to catch the 0,01% that needs it. We actually did the same as US many years ago. I was at a Vietnam country hospital with pneumonia, and they did the same as US, I got everything in the book, even if I didn't need it.
@ I apologize if that is the interpretation that you got from my statement. I reiterate.. I am not saying anything about blanket bombing. If you look at my comments carefully you will see I was talking about good stewardship. That means you treat each patient individually based on needs as opposed to giving everyone the same treatment. The issue with evidence based care is the evidence is interpreted differently by different governing bodies. This can be illustrated by the standard guidelines for diabetes treatment. The American Diabetes Association has slightly different guidelines and parameters as opposed to the American Association of Clinical Endocrinology. This led to problems in diagnosing patients with diabetes and what should be the target A1C. The point I am trying to assert here is as doctors and nurses we should not be mindless drones just doing something because we were told to do it. I saw this happen when I worked as a diabetes consultant. If we are going to treat all patients the same we might as well have robots prescribe the same things for everyone. To further illustrate my concern I see in health care where prescribers just do whatever some body told them can be illustrated by the fact that they learned A1C guidelines were too tight and came with risks for for certain patient groups such as elderly and people with multiple comorbidities. The risks included hypoglycemia which can lead to death. After getting reports of severe complications… which did not happen immediately, they finally loosened up the guidelines to prevent adverse reactions. I would be interested to know how you feel I should have been treated when considering I am still on antibiotics for 6 weeks now and have damage to my jaw and have missed weeks of work and been a strain on resources . Once again, I am not saying to give antibiotics to everyone. I agree with you, but we need to look at our patients not as a number on a piece of paper but as an individual human being. We are not cars that you can treat all the same.
I would like to point out one more thought regarding your comment that "Scandinavian care is far beyond US." While it is true that there are definitely areas where Scandinavian countries excel in health care this is a rather dogmatic statement that is painting with a VERY broad paintbrush. As someone who has worked in healthcare in both countries I feel I can have some freedom to say that there are also areas where Sweden falls WAY behind. In Sweden for example, we have been having to have radiology reports outsourced to other countries like Australia because Sweden is so back logged and can't keep up. The journaling system is super antiquated compared to the USA. I was shocked how easy it would be for health care personnel to steal narcotics in the health care setting in Sweden (and it has happened in the time I been here which is ironic considering the statements here by others saying there is a concern for narcotic abuse). It is way easier to mix up medications and give the wrong medication to the wrong patient in Swedish hospitals. Nurses are not required to do continued education to keep their licenses every 2 years like we do in America. When it comes to medication administration in the hospital, they are doing things that we were doing like 20 years ago. I can make a very long list. In fact... I think you gave me an idea for an interesting video! Haha! But yea... there are a lot of things Sweden does better. In reality, we can learn from each other.
@@becurious2000 One of the larger regions actually tried to modernise recently by buying a journal system from US. It did not go well. ;)
Probably not because the system was inherently bad though I suppose. But the thanks to the neoliberals turn to mess around with ideology over reason that started in Sweden meant everything that can be outsourced should be outsourced. So now everything is basically dependant on things only someone else knows anything about and no one will take any responsibility for.
Also, antibiotics will occasionally still be used with the carpet bombing method. But for non emergency things it usually takes a long time because sample treatments are done befrehand. And since that, obviously, is outsourced as well it will usually take a long wait time for invasive procedures just because of that. There can of course be other factors as well though.
it's quite interesting! I think Finland would be somewhere in between! I don't work in health care, but in my experience it is true that the antibiotics are not given easily. For example for a sinus infection you don't get antibiotics here nowadays (we still did have those around 10 years ago). But I've heard that in these kind of situations, like yours, for example teeth/mouth surgery, they do give them. Also I've understood that in Finland it's an idea that a patient shouldn't feel pain, as getting better pain free helps you get better sooner. So pain killers are given. But the really strong pain killers only if you can't cope with the pain on the more common pain killers such as ibuprofein or parasetamol.
Hope you feel better soon. proud of our health care in Sweden even though I think we should invest more in i. Feel better!
How refreshing to hear a positive story, yet to unfold. I believe that we have been fed to be afraid the of the big bad wolf! I would certainly trust this patient's observations. Level headed and rational! Best wishes for your recovery!
Thanks so much!
Always have dental work done early in the week, If there are any complications you have the rest of the week to have your dentist look at it, before they bugger off for the weekend and leave you in the hands of the public system. I learnt that the hard way.
I agree 100 %
I'm glad you had such a wonderful experience with the health care system in Sweden. When I shattered my wrist (took three metal plates and 18 screws to put it back) I do want to say that I had a wonderful hand surgeon in southern California and with good insurance I also had pretty minimal costs. It was left up to me how long I'd continue heavy pain medication but I only took it three or four days and then took Tylenol. The staff at the hospital were wonderful and caring, so there are good places even in the US, but there may be different standards in some of the left affluent states for all I know.
I feel you! I am a German who has been living in Sweden for almost 11 years. I have had unbelievably bad experiences with dentists. The first dentist I went to for a root canal treatment did an unbelievably bad job. It turned out that she had treated the root canals incorrectly and a lot more. She is no longer licensed. I then went to another dentist and this one also made it worse, so that I had a large abscess. In the end I begged for him to remove the tooth because it was unbearable.
After that I did a lot of research and looked for a good dentist. Finally I found a private clinic with a German-Swedish dentist. Of course a private clinic is very expensive, but it was worth it to me. In the end three additional teeth had to be removed due to previous treatment errors. I needed four dental bridges in total, which ended up costing me almost 100k SEK. I am happy and was lucky to find a very professional dentist in the end. After the operations, he also prescribed me suitable and effective painkillers (paracetamol-codeine mixture).
I hope you feel well again soon and that everything will be just a faint memory in the end.
Wow my goodness! What a story! That was a lot of money you had to spend. Sorry you had to go through that
Dentist Treatment in Sweden is a joke and super expensive.
Sorry to hear that. I guess it means it's better for us to get dental treatment from a private dentist with good reviews?
@@awakening5724 hard to say. I don’t know if I just had bad luck. I personally know many who go to the same dentist and never had any problems before. When they heard what happened all were shocked and said… but they have such good reviews… 🤷
I had the same surgery in Canada and they sent me home with opiates pain killers and antibiotics. I was thankful for both of those. You're lucky you didn't end up with sepsis. I ended up with a very rare complication. After 15 years of constant pain in my lower front teeth I finally got the diagnosis of phantom nerve pain.
I'm sorry for your ordeal and all the pain you had to gp through! I say that antibiotics are too restricted in Sweden as a prevention, so much are given to animals as prevention to those so to give to patients who could be at risk of infection is too restricted imo. They should've let you stay for observation in a ward at the hospital. To go to the ER aren't free of charge but affordable in Sweden. Its 300 -400 SEK, differs which region as they decide the costs independently. If you need to go, you call for a sjukbil - which is basicly a taxi taking you there, better cost than a taxi fare. If you need paramedics you of course need to call an ambulance. Doesnt cost 700$ or like how much I really dont know though. I had to call for a sjukbil once to go to the ER unit at the neatest hospital, and it came within 15 min. My experience at the hospital was good, I was well threated but of course I had to wait bc there were other patients. I was taken to a room though, and could lay down after had been in triage. Turned out I had been prescribed the wrong antibiotics by the doctor for pheumonia as it was mycoplasma, and that calls for an other type of antibiotics. So the meds Ive been taken didnt help. At all. I was getting really ill, chills and sweating and all the works. NDE almost. The doctor at the ER was really annoyed when she heard about it, bc I might aswell had gotten the antibiotics that works for both. Would have spared me, and spared me from having to go to the hospital. Fixed it in the first place. I told the doctor at the primary care unit, vårdcentralen, that I strongly suspected mycoplasma bc my son had just been sick in this kind of phenumena from mycoplasma and he was admitted in to hospital ward, infection bc he was so infected and couldnt breath. But no - the doctor said this wasn't possible due to the time span of incubation it could not be that I had myvoplasma just bc my son had it for 3 weeks ago. Well what do you know! The ER doctor said that yes we are restricted for prescribing antibiotics, its always within the procotols from the Medical Agency but there are linits to for being too restrictive in our daily practise to our patients needs. Also, a test for mycoplasma is really easily done, its just a swab test from the inside of the cheek. Nothing complicated and nothing expensive. Yes I agree that we must advocate for our needs as patients, and be really assertive about it.
We do have among the least antibiotic use in farming as well, so we're not only restrictive in humans.
What an experience. Thanks for sharing and for all the information. I am learning a lot.
I'll give you a little tip if regular pain relief with Alvedon (paracetamol) doesn't help, e.g with a toothache: take 2 Alvedon (paracetamol) and 1 Ipren (ibuprofen). I've worked as a dental nurse for 5 years. Q: Do you speak and understand (spoken and/or written) Swedish or only one of the options?😊
Ja. Jag pratar och skriver på svenska 😎 Jag tog 1 g Alvedon plus 400 mg Ipren varje 6 timmar dygnet runt och det räckte tyvärr inte till. Tack och lov fick jag Citodon. I början behövde jag 2 stycka Citodon per gång och kunde inte ta Alvedon då Citodon innehåller Alvedon. Efter ett par dagar trappade jag när till 1 Citodon tablett plus 500 mg Alvedon varje 6 timmar. Nu tar jag sällan smärtstillande.
Jag väntar just nu på att få tid till att operera bort 2 visdomständer(båda i underkäken), en som har gått ner under några andra av tänderna och som dessutom har en cysta, den andra växer uppochner. Om jag får rådet att ta 2 alvedon och en ipren som inte ens hjälper vid en jävla huvudvärk så får det bli smärtstillande från gatan. Hatar Sverige ibland.
Norway is the same. You need to have an arm almost cut of in Norway. They are very scared for the opioid situation from the US come to Scandinavia.
I traveld to the US, and we lost our flight, and I had calculated wrong how many pain meds I had brought with me, so the hotel called a doctor and I got a opineinm,ent and it was no biggie to get some help. Quick and easy.
Another time I had pneumonia and all I wanted was some antibiotics fort and keep on going for my vacation in New York! But they kept me over two nights and I had 8 different doctors coming to se me. Felt like I was a golden ticket for them to squeeze out all the insurance money!
Oh my god...I can't even imagine the astronomical levels of hell you've been through! I'm glad they kept working with you and they were nice to you on top of that. Its good insight to hear about your experience with the healthcare system. I understand not everyone's experience is the same, but it was something I was wondering. The closest thing I got to a medical related procedure while in Sweden was getting my first tattoo and yes they do take being sterile very seriously. Which I am happy about.The guy worked fast did a phenomenal job and didn't feel any pain. However, I hope you are feeling better and definitely liked and subscribed!
Thanks!!! 🙏🏻
Hope you get better soon.
You should have called 1177 to get advice. Even if you are a nurse it is always better to have another person deal with something like this. They will also call the ER so they now that you are coming. They also call for the ambulans if needed.
Ulla 🌷🌷🌷
As a person who also has trouble with anxiety, I think it's great that they told you exactly what they were going to do (and probably also why) before they did it. I've had various medical experiences here in Canada, and a lot of doctors and nurses will also do that, but some don't. I suspect it depends on the individual personalities of the medical people.
I recommend taking extra vitamin D and C to reduce the risk of sepsis and to improve the immune system
Yea I am doing the C but I think it’s time to resume the D. Especially since winter is in the way and it’s getting darker
From Norway here, and I really think you should have had painkillers, but I guess you have to actively ask for it. My husband had a minor surgery on his hand, and got it automatically.
I experienced sepsis myself 9 years ago, and have my own harrowing experience from it, mostly that I was sent home with 2 boxes of antibiotics instead of hooking me up with IV immidiately, and 9 years later I still have ME from it.
I also have experience from giving birth in the US, and in that particular case, I was glad to receive care in the US. Norway is really really big on natural deliveries, sometimes to the detriment to the mothers health, and in the US I had a C-section, before it was allowed to go really bad. I appreciate that so much.
Overall, I'm pro healthcare for all/socialized medicine, but there can always be improvements made, for sure.
Hope for your speedy recovery!
Interesting! I’m 60 and recently had my first surgery and first night in a hospital here in Sweden. Found all the nurses and doctors I met very kind and professional. Paid 130 SEK for staying one night (13 USD).
It’s really awesome that healthcare is accessible to all and won’t bankrupt you like it the USA.
Yeah, I paid 460 for 2 trips to the ER and two nights at medicinska avdelningen. Like sure, as a student, it is a bit tough, but it's less than 500 at the end of the day (prior to ER I also spent another 800 on my VC because they kept sending me home and asking me to come back). I have now changed VC.
@@SammyLammy1Dthat’s why you have the thing called frikort. When you reach 1400kr all visits are free for a year
@@becurious2000 It doesn't cover toothcare though. Among swedes we all know that how to tell if you're poor. Is the state of your teeth. Fixing a hole in one tooth is about 10.000 sek in sweden, about 1000 USD.
The only time toothcare gets covered is with cases like yours. That need a jaw/nose/ear doctor & the ER.
@ sounds like the jokes I hear about England and their teeth 😂 my mom was born in England by the way 😀
It's interesting with the painmed prescripton because I've had one fracture in my elbow and one on my knee (both required surgery with screws etc) and I got prescribed both OxyNorm and Targiniq which I ended up not using since I had basically no pain after surgery. So in some instances they do give heavier painmeds preemtively. But I guess protocol differs between orthopedic procedures and dental/infection treatment.
It’s seems to be the case
Those red streaks will get you help every time🙈 I had some tiny little wound/scratch on my toe that got infected once I couldn't wear my shoe, I called the vårdcentral, they let me see the nurse. As soon as she saw my foot she ran and got a doctor. Got antibiotics immediatly.
So glad your doing better, what an ordeal.
🙏🏻
Good luck with your recovery!!! I honestly feel that for me pain meds help the healing process by reducing the anxiety of having so much pain.
yes pain management is an important part of the healing process too.
In Sweden we have always had a problem with excessive caution, wait and see mentality. For example - antibiotics resistance is a real concern, but it's a global problem that needs to be solved on a global level in cooperation between states. But Sweden, true to the caution mentality, takes too much responsibility and goes totally overboard with NOT prescribing prophylactic antibiotics to patients that would benefit from it. It's a strange "we need to be best in class" mentality that perhaps is good on a global scale, but sometimes causes pain for individuals. Personally I don't like it.
Very strangely selectively “best in class” though - no concern about patients contracting Covid or other infections in the ER to battle that on top of the original issues.
Glad youre on the upswing🎉🎉🎉🎉
But... DONT CANCEL ME SMACK TALKING ABOUT SWEDEN
....BUT ..that was huge fail
...Antibiotics should most definitely been given day 1....
Here in the US , they ask you to take a day's worth of antibiotics before any invasive dental your procedures, even if it's teeth cleaning.
As a nurse ...wasn't that going through your mind????
I sometimes watch your channel , and i notice you tend to give Sweden a pass for everything...and will often downplay their "systems" that don't really work
...and are very forgiving....The US is a mess and I'd rather not live here... but everything in SE isn't better.
I hope moving forward in your content you'll be mindful, fair and honest about things Sweden needs to be better at😮
@@marcsi05Covid response was also an expression of the same excessive caution, this time for society. Instead of shutting down society to prevent infection, they went with the cautious approach to only limit some social spaces and recommend social distancing over mandating it. This time out of caution re the economy and freedom of movement rather than medicine. It was a compromise approach and I personally reckon it was successful.
@@marcsi05 Exactly my opinion.
@@marcsi05 Exactly my opinion.
I have been an ICU nurse in the US for 20 years. I treat pain as needed. I used the pain medication that is appropriate for the pain presented. My patients were very appreciative. Now there is a reluctance to adequately treat pain, and people are suffering.
Yea, I agree. I am a bit concerned with all the comments I am seeing regarding the lack of reasonable pain medication prescription as this leads to other problems such as poor life quality, decrease activities of daily living, and even suicide according to the literature. I fear the pendulum has swung too far the other way in reaction to fear of narcotic abuse. I have worked many years as well in intensive care back in Texas. I was very proud of how we cared for pain at that time. We had the occasional drug seeker or person who was a risk for misusing drugs but I am quite proud of how well we cared for these individuals broadly speaking.
Good you're feeling better 🎉🎉🎉..however you needed antibiotics from the start...
In Sweden you only get antibiotics if you have a confirmed bacterial infection to treat, they're not given "just in case".
I think the Swedish healthcare system has its pros and cons. Primary care is small in comparison to most or all other western countries. This can be quite irritating when you need to see a doctor for something that is not life threatening. But the flip side is that the quality of the hospital care is usually very high when you really need it, when you get severely ill. They also don't have age restrictions on treatments or therapies, as in many countries. My dad was diagnosed with lung cancer that had when he was 87. Despite his high age he still got a very expensive cancer treatment that worked really well.
true. We get many 80, 90 and even some 100 year something olds in my department
I am a veterinary epidemiologist living in Belgium. I have experience of Swedish health care and Belgisan health care. In Sweden they put you on hold hoping you die prior to being properly taken care off. You do not have a personal health care providee, you simply hve the local regional health station, where no one is really responsible for anyone.
My mom died because of the terrible Swedish care and all those that I talm to that have lived elsewhere say that Sweden is not the place to retire since health care is horrendous
I have heard complaints from elderly Swedish patients that have lived in other European countries. One of the ones I cared for in home health care lived in France for many years but had to move back to Sweden when they got older to be near family. She and her husband really missed the care provided in France.
In the US they would have given you a broad spectrum antibiotic and all this could have been avoided. Also I’ve never had to wait in ER here until Covid. 29:19
I've also been to the emergency room in Sweden and my experience blew me away with how well I was taken care of.
As for antibiotics, I also feel like it's kind of strange how stingy they are with prescribing, but on the other hand Sweden is one of the best nations on the planet at fighting antibiotic resistance so I just trust that they know what they're doing and have done the calculations.
Hopefully you were just an unlucky case and for everyone with your experience 5 less people die from antibiotic resistant bacteria.
Yea it seems to be the general thing I hear… that I was just unlucky.
Sorry you had to go trough that. It's been 4 weeks, so I hope you are better now.
I've had a tilted wisdom tooth removed about 2 years ago in my home country of Germany. I did not have any risk factors for the surgery, but I still was prescribed an antibiotic (Amoxi-Clavulan 875/125 mg) to take a day before the surgery. (Except they can't prescribe 1 pill, so I got a 10 pack of which 9 remain wasted.) For after the surgery I got prescription-strength ibuprofen (600 mg instead of the over-the-counter 400 mg) and a bottle of metamizole (dipyrone) in case of the pain getting worse than the ibu could handle. Having had no complications, I didn't require either.
That being my only experience with wisdom tooth extraction, I am kind of shocked they wouldn't give you any antibiotics when you already had cysts, nor provide anything other than over-the-counter painkillers for after the surgery, even after you had to go to the emergency room. It's not like ibuprofen and morphine are the only choices.
In Denmark this works somewhat inbetween the two systems.
You're given one dose of painmeds/antibiotics for -certain- procedures, and then you're being checked up on to see if you need anything else.
The reason it does not work like that in the US, is because going for a check up is an expensive affair. Here, you can just go, get checked out, and have your treatment adjusted as necessary. The system is built to give you exactly what you are meant to have.
I think the biggest issue you had, was that you didn't come back when the problem remained/got worse. If you had gone immediately, or explained that you were in pain, you'd receive what you'd need. Here a treatment to more serious things is a process, not a one-and-done type deal. Just don't be afraid to return to the doctors if things aren't great.
That sounds like a pretty good system indeed. My issue was that the dental office was closed when I got into trouble and I did ask at four different locations for medication for pain. The first one did not feel comfortable doing that and said if it is that bad to go to the ER or wait till Monday to talk to the dentist who operated. The ER felt my issue was resolved as I was no longer having pain after the fluid was removed (which got much worse 3 hours after I got home). The jaw surgeon said they would do it but must have forgot to. So when I went to pick up my meds there was no pain meds to pick up, just antibiotics and by then the phone hours were closed at the surgeons office. I finally called the dental office the next day and got pain medication. I missed several nights of sleep from the pain and could not eat. The whole thing of going to the emergency room is a problem because they are not dental specialist. My experience both in the US and Sweden is there is a big disconnect between dental care and other health care concerns. I preferred to have someone who actually works with teeth and the jaw to look at me rather than a regular doctor who is not specialized in such things. I know many say "you should have gone back to the Emergency room" but the truth is I did not feel confident with them taking care of such a specialized area of the body. I would prefer to have someone who does this everyday to look at me. Another issue is that in my experience as a nurse in Sweden is there is some prejudice against someone asking for pain medication... that they are just "drug seeking". Just an observation as a nurse. I was talking with a doctor I work with here in Sweden. He was a professor and been around for decades... a lot of experience with many health care systems. He said this is a problem in Sweden. Health care is way too siloed. The body is divided into parts and different doctors take care of different parts. There are communication deficits among practices which results in risks to patient and delays in care.
I hope you get better soon and thank you for sharing
😊
I live in Denmark, and I had three wisdom tooth removed, also with infection in, the dentist prescribed antibiotics for one day before and three days after, but no pain medicine prescribed
I'm a Finn and we have the same policy here. Doctors don't prescribe antibiotics or strong pain medication easily. But I've always got a prescription for both, if I really needed it. Sounds like you would've absolutely needed it!
Dental costs are not included in the medical högkostnadsskydd. There is a separate högkostnadsskydd for dental care, but it is much higher.
Across Europe there's a wide spectrum of practices on antibiotics and painkillers. I had a surgery in Greece and got IV antibiotics preventatively. Broken wrist + some titan screws and a plate. My doctor argued with SOS International, that did not want to cover the expence of extra hospital stays. In Sweden I would have been sent home. But Greece has EU:s worst record of deaths by multi resistance infections, so I'm happy I was out of there without any infection. Painkillers was restricted though. The first two nights I had to beg for a shot to be able to sleep.
Back in Sweden I've had two orthopedic surgeries. Definitely no antibiotics. After orthopedic surgery screwing together a fractured ancle I got Oxycodone for a few weeks, and thereafter Paracetamol.
Interesting to hear. One thing I am proud of in Texas was pain management. If it got to be too complicated and we had concerns, we could consult the palliative pain management team and they were extremely good at their job.
I worked as RN in the States in hospital for 9 years, one thing I learned that if anyone gets complications, it's more than likely to happen to a nurse. Yeah, here in the Netherlands, first pain relief they prescribe is Paracetamol. Antibiotics usually given if CRP is high enough, but preventative antibiotics isn't given mostly to prevent antibiotic resistance. In the States they are more likely prescribed because people feel like they need that to feel better, even if it doesn't help. Because of "customer service " and customer satisfaction. But healthcare shouldn't be based on getting medication, especially if half the people don't need heavy pain meds or antibiotics.
Well said. I worked with a couple nurses from the Netherlands as well in Texas. Great nurses.
Restrictions on pain meds really have gotten insane in Sweden, used to be much better just 5-6 years ago but now you're just screwed if you're in pain. Went to the ER a couple of times about a year ago, screaming in pain and the doctors just say "I don't prescribe morphine because of some people might become addicted" refering to the American opiod epidemic. The basically just checked to see if I was in any seriuos danger but couldn't find anything and sent me home, meanwhile I'm screaming in pain.
I used to love the Swedish health care but there's something seriously wrong when doctors refuse to treat severe pain. What's worse is they're probably increasing the risk of addiction as people are forced to find other ways of dealing with the pain.
I "managed" (didn't really get any sleep and my screaming probably kept some neighbours awake as well) without resorting to using any illegal drugs but others might not, in fact I know of some who didn't, just because the doctors refused to help them with their pain.
Interesting. I'm in Ireland and I've been having wisdom tooth pain and had a pocket of infection underneath it. My dentist immediately decided to take take it out, took it out in a few minutes and I'm day two now and the pain is subsiding. I'm back in two weeks for a follow up but he's on the end of the phone if I have any issues. I've just taken a couple of Neurofen and that takes the edge off the pain. Like that he didn't perscribe antibiotics. You can feel flu like after an infected wisdom tooth extraction.
Your tongue numbness can also just have been from your tooth extraction. They aren't always the best at telling you up front, but you can get nerve damage from the tooth extraction, and that can cause numbness. I couldn't feel the left side of my tongue for half a year after a particularly bad extraction:/
Yea I wonder about that too. The weird thing is the numbness was on the left side of the tongue. The tooth removed was on the right side. Very puzzling
Akuten is 400 kr per visit, but int goes in the högkostnadsskydd. We also have högkostnadsskydd for travel expences.
Ihave hade antibiotics, both in the blood and mouth. 8 weeks antibiotics after my amputation. And at least 150 times in my blood the last 4 years for raised crp.