1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix Design (with John Manoogian) - Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2022
- Learn more about the development of the 1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix with former Pontiac Assistant Chief and Chief Designer, John Manoogian.
See Part 1 here:
• 1997-2003 Pontiac Gran... 
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From 1959 through to the end, Pontiac had one of the strongest brand images in the industry. Thanks Mr. Manoogian and Adam for another fascinating interview.
Great hearing from John again. I saw him at a Grand Prix meet outside of Detroit years ago. My Grand Prix is 22 years old now, and it's still a great looking car and I enjoy driving it. The 97 to 03 Grand Prix will certainly always have a following. It's just one of those cars, that will remain timeless.
My Grand Am is 18 years old and it’s fun to drive and still looks good.
Thank you for the history of the 1997-2003 Grand Prix! More history of other Pontiac’s would be appreciated! So sad GM quit making the Pontiac,my favorite GM brand!
Thank you John and Adam for this. In my opinion, this was an era of peak Grand Prix. I loved the design--an aggressive and purposeful shape in a sea of jellybeans that were so common in the 90s. Products like this make me sad that Pontiac is no longer with us
Wonderful discussion! It really humanizes the design process. I must agree that the design of the 1997-2003 Grand Prix ages well. It still looks contemporary.
... if you're Helen Keller
@@Saab900T Always has to be one of you in the crowd. 🙄
@Primus54 lol if you think that horsecrap design-on-a-dime, trailer park Grand Am is a great car, I have a bridge to sell you.
@@Saab900T You can’t even get the car straight… this is about the Grand PRIX, not the Grand AM! 😂
@@Primus54 the last gen of both of them were equally trashy.
These first hand discussions from the battlefront -- with someone who was there -- are just the best!
John’s giving his team the credit shows character. A leader edifies each teammate. This resulted in a grand slam
I've always said this generation Grand Prix is one of the best looking cars ever made. The front end has a stoic expression, the subtle ribs and spoiler work with the smooth, low slung styling, and I loooove the way the mirrors look.
My first car was a 2000 silvermist GTP coupe, purchased in 2011 as a junior in high school with my own money. I was sold on its excellent engine, cool interior layout (love the red backlighting), and beautiful exterior styling. I miss that car so much, it was perfect. Unfortunately New England winters took their toll on it and it eventually rusted out
My 2000 GP GT coupe was a beautiful Pontiac, elegant and smooth. Drove like a dream with the bulletproof 3800 V6. My favorite of the 5 Pontiacs that I've owned over the decades. 😊
When I was younger, I'd say that Pontiac vehicles were "ribbed for nobody's pleasure." Now I say that John Manoogian gave them a full rack of ribs to feed the family in it lol
These sketches are amazing. The Oldsmobiles look better than what came out. That is the direction Oldsmobile should have taken. I understand about the parts sharing. That is economies of scale. You can clearly see the Pontiac influence in the styling and them working on making the brands unique again. Too bad there was not an STE trim. That was a Pontiac theme. Thank you for bringing John back. Thank you for the video Adam.
Agreed, Olds should have definitely went in that direction!
Will no one talk about how beautiful those sketches are? I love them!
Drawing it and building it are 2 different things
I agree. The sketches are very expressive and beautiful in their own right. I recall in another video, Manoogian said he would take about 2 hours per sketch.
John was in my view the best Design Director at General Motors, especially those Pontiac Programs . Everybody wanted to work in his Studio .
Mr. Manoogian is awesome!! I could listen to him talk all day long. He seemed so enthusiastic about his time at GM and his drawings are great.
I fell in love with this design when it came out, I was in high school. My buddy had a black 2 door with grey leather.
I saw John at the "The Gathering" in Kansas City. He was the guest speaker and I remember a very different talk about how the GP came about. The SE was the MAIN target car and the GT& GTP were almost an afterthought. Pontiac was totally shocked by the GT & GTP being the HOT sellers and the SE became the rental fleet car. I also remember we asked what John personally drove and he seemed shy to say he drove a Ferrari. Ask John if he remembers that presentation.
Yes I do!
Your memory is correct. The SE being the entry level car was indeed the priority at the time. Everyone was shocked when the GT/GTP sold so well. Ya just never can guess that stuff.
Thank you for the discussion. I have thoroughly enjoyed these presentations. We would all be so fortunate to have as much passion for what we do as Mr. Manoogian has for his work. I'm an Olds fanboy first off, and his Olds sketches were sharp. I love his work on Pontiac.
John, thank you so much for sharing so much with us. 40+ years ago I'd never imagined I would get insights like this from someone so involved in the process. I can't thank you enough. It's a gift to mankind to have this documented.
I spent a lot of time behind the wheel of a 00 Grand Prix GT and loved every minute! That car was comfortable, fast and sexy! Fantastic job on the design and thank you for your time sitting down to do these videos!!
I always liked the look of these cars when they came out, still do. Never got to drive one. There is a silver GT hiding out in my neighborhood somewhere that I still see driving around.
Crazy how good John is at drawing. Great guest.
Great video and discussion. I love learning the insights about the designs. Keep these type of videos coming if you can!
I still love the '97-'02 coupes. Great job!
Thanks for the interview Adam, these brought back memories for me, I grew up seeing these as a kid in the 90's new.
Excellent video again Adam. Keep them coming.
This was a very nice conversation to be able to sit in on and learn from. He seems like a really nice guy, passionate and idealistic about his work.
The one major point I was surprised about after having watched both videos you did with him on this topic was that he never once mentioned the first generation Acura Integra. Released in 1986 at the advent of the Acura brand, this was a sporty four cylinder car released in both two and four door configuration, and it most certainly had the aggressive styling of a sporty coupe. The fact that it was a highly functional and ultra-roomy hatchback meant that many car guys actually referred to them as three doors and five doors, though in Mr. Manoogian's parlance, they most certainly seem to have met his criteria for a two and four door coupe, based off of a common platform and swoopy sheetmetal. I would love to ask him if he had been influenced by that generation of the integra, which was on the market when this car was in early stages of development.
From one passionate car guy to another, thank you for your excellent work.
No that particular car was never on our radar. Figured they were different customers
Another great discussion! Thanks again, John, for joining us.
Another fantastic chat, guys! Thanks for sharing!!
Those Oldsmobile proposals look fantastic! Thanks for sharing.
The Grand Prix was my favorite GM car from 1988 to 2003. They were very good and reliable cars.
I knew alot of people with one of those and the generation before it. The one thing I like was the 2nd gear start button. It was nice in the snow. Let that guy know as someone who grew up near Pontiac. He designed alot of local people's bread and butter car. When Pontiac motors was going Pontiacs we're everywhere.
I appreciate seeing the Olds drawing in there ;)
Always great to hear from the designers.
fantastic interview! I see many design features that saw the light of day on the '04
Another great 2 part series presented by Adam & John, many thanks for the excellent and very cool renditions...Here are my thoughts, as a past owner of a 1989/1990 Pontiac STE AWD, the Grand Prix of this era had nice clean lines. That last Grand Prix rendition, the Red one with the rear airflow slots reminded me of the back end of the new Toyota Camry! Another vehicle, the Tesla Model S has the clean lines and keeps on selling after being first introduced/sold in the 2012 model year! I also wish to add that some of these renditions had similar styling cues as the Chrysler LHS/New Yorker or Dodge Intrepid or even the Aurora/Saturn models a bit. Thank you very much and keep it going!
Merci beaucoup! for these types of interviews, so interesting to hear automotive history from the design perspective.
I wonder if anyone at this studio ended up at Chrysler because so many of those drawing have front ends very similar to the cab forward LH cars that followed.
god those sketches are gorgeous
I've owned 3 Grand Prixs 80 SJ, 93 special edition, 02 GT coup. My favorite was the 93 but the best looking was the 2002.
What historical documents these interviews are! Mahalo for making them!
I love so look at those sketches and see elements that were used in various other GM models. A couple of them looked awfully similar to an Eagle Vision.... Probably not too many that remember those.
Thanks so much for sharing your time and presenting the design history on this great Pontiac, Mr. Manoogian. Adam - another home run! Where else can we get this kind of in-depth coverage? Kudos, man!
Great video bravo to both excellent works from John.
Amazing as always!
Would love to hear him talk about the 04-08 Grand Prix.
Such an enjoyable video ! I'd love John to tell us the story of his stunt inside the Saturn design group.
Simplicity in design, what a great idea; thanks to you both for a great interview
I have to agree with Mr. Mannogian on the transcending nature of beauty when it comes to simplistic designs, which in my opinion coupled with a well- appointed symmetry all around a car's body makes for an automotive design success that stands the test of time. Overly designed angry-bug-looking cars of today are all but just a passing fad whose relative attractiveness (to the people who like them) wears off in a couple years' time. Thanks for the interview Adam, I was wondering if you'd consider doing an informative video on the last Grand Prix, the 2004 which imo I thinks looks just as bold as the one depicted here, all 198 ribless inches of it. Thanks again.
These Pontiac Grand Prix sedans were among my favorite GM cars. I remember the Grand Prix concept car and blown away, I wished the bulged wheel openings had made it to the production car. The 2004 to 2008 Grand Prix GTP and GXP were and are still my top Pontiac sedans, their designs a updated continuation of Mr. Manoogian's masterpiece. I also remember the magnificent Oldsmobile Antares concept car, which should have made production as is!
The Antares did make it to production......as the second Gen aurora...they just changed the name right before launch
Just saw a GP Gt black the other day. Very clean and nice looking still.
Have you ever thought about auctioning off some signed copies of John’s automotive prints? You could donate the profits to your favorite charity. I would love to have one or two of his prints hanging on my wall and I’m sure I’m not alone on this idea.
Ask John's opinion about how the Aztek today blends right into todays cars... no longer shocking or outlandish.
Actually the Aztek was way way ahead of its time. I'm not completely thrilled by how it departed from its original design sketches which looked great, but a 2003 aztek would fit right in today.
@@howebrad4601 I concur.
John is such a joy to see and listen to, truly. Wonderfully entertaining videos, Adam :).
The late GTP supercharged versions are nice I drove one long distance. Heads up display, great stereo awesome seats cool styling and wheels and fantastic engine the late 3.8l. Long doors though on the coupe and a bit of torque steer and understeer.
The differences in trim levels, especially in appearance, is something I miss from the olden years of design. The differences in interiors in particular could really be quite drastic.
Fantastic once again! Great exclusive content. I’ve been anxiously awaiting this video!
I was in the GM labor time garage when those were ready for launch. Nice looking cars with one super bean counter item. They were available in 1997 at start of production with only a drivers side heated seat. Not sure if I ever saw that on any other car. Great video.
1:08
That front looks like the GM EV1
GM made the mistake to cut Pontiac from there lineup. Think of all the great cars Trans Am , GTO , Firebird , Fiero , Grand Am , Grand Prix. The styling of these cars always stood out in a good way and they were affordable.
With the crossover/SUV trend, there’s only so much that can be done to differentiate and attempt to create timeless beauty. Nothing will ever look as great as well-designed coupes and sedans.
I have a 2000 GTP I bought in 2009, great car, 30 mpg on the highway! We had a 1971 Firebird esprit when I was growing up, Castilian bronze with brown vinyl top. Every time I went in and out of the garage at home I saw that Firebird and love the front end styling and rear end taillight design. It brings a feeling of great comfort over me every time I see a Castilian bronze Firebird, reminds me that my mom is home! Sadly I had to sell the car in 2011, had it since 1972!
I actually agree with John when it comes to car design. The more cleaner looking cars do seem to age better than the more radical designs. A perfect example is the BMW 7 series. The less radical E32 and E38 versions of the 7 Series from the late 80's and 90's are much better looking today than the E65 versions of the early 00's(aka the Bangle Butt).
I’ve been enjoying your presentations for sometime now.
My question is, have you considered doing a show on the development of the 1988-1992 Buick Reatta?
It seems to me to be a perfect example of away not to develop a car!
I would be interested in your view.
Thanks
Ron Spence
Nanaimo BC
Hi Ron,
Unfortunately, I believe the chief designer of that car is in poor health. But if he’s up for an interview, I will try.
I bought a new 2000 GTP Grand Prix. I know he really wanted a sedan but the coupe was soooo much better looking than the sedan. The sedans became ubiquitous, whereas the coupe had style and actually looked sporty and they were so much rarer (thus more special) than the sedans. Of course having a supercharged 3.8 helped a lot. It was my first car with HUD which was so cool. I was sure that by the mid 2000s, all cars would have them. I guess Pontiac was just ahead of their time. RIP Pontiac
A crazy thing = if I were to buy a car - Pontiac and Ferrari tell me they would be red. I always order other colours of cars / but Pontiac would make me buy a red car. Definitely agree with the simple clean look retaining a freshness. The Grand Prix from this era always have me looking at them. I really loved the supercharged version look. I wish the darned G8 and Pontiac could have lived on.
Another really interesting episode! I'm looking forward to a segment on the 2nd generation Cadillac CTS sedan/coupe/wagon, which I believe was John's last major design prior to his retirement, correct me if I'm wrong. I wonder did he do any work on the third generation CTS (I own a 2018 CTS-V which I love), I'd be very interested to hear his thoughts on that design, which I think is one of the best looking cars ever made by GM.
Thank you. No I was not involved with the 3rd Gen CTS. Only the '08 Sedan/Coupe/Wagon & the V versions of those.
I wish I could get John to sign my 2000 GTP.
Another excellent video. Thank you. I thought the GP was a hit. The design was athletic and mature for Pontiac.
Adam please do a interview with Mr Manoogian over the Cadillac CTS Coupe!
The best looking Cadillac ever!
Thx for the great videos!
God bless you!
Stay tuned as they say.
Greatttttt history, I love Pontiac so much!
I bought a red 1998 GTP coupe with chrome alloy wheels and I loved it’s look. I couldn’t afford a Firebird, but this allowed me to get the next best thing in an American brand. I only sold it when I found metal shavings in the supercharger oil and the transmission shifting was getting weird.
The 260hp GXP was an impressive car. Then again, today a 3.8 liter V6 should produce way more power without boost.
If ever you interview this gentleman again, don't think it was mentioned but I'd be curious to ask if NASCAR aerodynamics interests had any influence in their designs.
No, NASCAR had no influence on the design or aero. The car was aero tested for NASCAR after it was done to optimize it for racing.
Complexity alienates the majority of
I like to believe there are several dimensions where each other the sketches became reality 🥰 I love ❤️ the STE proposal
Apologies if I missed it scrolling your video library, but did John work on the '92 Seville/Eldorado? I'd love to hear his thoughts on those cars. He's a fantastic interview.
No, I left Cadillac for Saturn then on to Pontiac. The '92 Seville/Eldo were great cars. I returned to Cadillac for the '06 DTS Facelift, the Presidential Limo and the CTS Sedan/Coupe/Wagon and the V's.
Great video and so cool seeing how these cars came to be. As a current STE owner...this is so wild! The 4 bucket seat McLaren cars they talk about were the TGP or Turbo Grand Prix coupes. The STE never got rear buckets unfortunately. The Regal sedan did though.
Very interesting discussion of the exterior/artistic design of the '97 W-body. Will you follow-up with a detailed review of the actual cars from that era?
A gorgeous car that gave me hope for GM. Like the stunning 1969 model, it was gifted with a longer wheelbase than its corporate siblings, in this case permitting the lovely flowing roofline. It was the only GM car of that era that I seriously considered for purchase, and although a test drive disappointed in terms of refinement, I continue to admire the look to this day.
Test drove a gold GT in the late 90s. Nice car, but at the time its ~$25k price tag felt like too much of a stretch. Bought an Olds Alero shortly after its model introduction in late '98. No disappointments. Several years later, I drove a rented post-2004 (redesigned) Grand Prix that I remember as a major step down. It had one of the cheapest, crudest dashes I've seen in a modern car. Was sad to see the demise of Olds, then Pontiac.
My sister did the same. Looked at a grand prix coupe but ended up buying a 99 alero. Then she bought an 04 alero identical to the 99 because olds was offering good discounts when they were being discontinued.
@@pdennis93 Mine was a handsome, responsive, comfortable, solid, reliable car.
So I had a new 98 GTP coupe. Loved that car. Was working for GM at the time in fuel systems so I had the opportunity to drive preproduction versions. Down the road got a new 04 GTP comp G equipped Grand Prix. Was really disappointed especially with the interior over the 97-03. Sea of plastic. Odd shaped steering wheel. Kept it only a year and got a 04 Bonneville GXP.
In High School Economics class we played the stonks game. Knowing that GM had just released the all-new Grand Prix, Century, Regal and Intrigue I went all in on the General's shares. Come Spring time I'd made a 50% profit, second place in the class losing only to a lad who'd lucked upon a fad. This car wasn't just good; it was divine.
I was obsessed with that car when i was a teenager. Unfortunately in my country they never imported the major US makers.
Adam, I think John Manoogian is looking to love in and take over the channel. 😅
Not even close! Adam is the man.
Interesting.
The 2018 base Mustangs looked as a GT. Only difference was the lower lip and badging and grille.
Love these interviews!
Up until a few years ago these GPs and Grand Ams were all over the Detroit metro area. Had a 91 Grand Prix and a 99 Grand Am. And most non boring interiors in my opinion.
I have a 2000 Grand Prix GT sedan that I bought new and still have it. Navy blue. 141,000 miles on but does not look it. It has not been a daily driver since 2019. Charcoal leather interior with heads up display and unfortunately a sunroof.
In 2015 I had my rocker panels replaced due to rust. The sunroof tubes drain into the rockers. My tubes now drain into the rear wheel well. This is a shame any of these cars with sunroofs will have the same problem. There is a video the Grand Prix Grand Prix. Some guys in Iowa I think race a bunch of old Grand Prix’s that are junkers. Most of them have rocker rot!
I kept mine and did not trade it in when I bought my truck. I drive it occasionally and still love the car. It’s low and wide and I think of it as kind of a 4 door Trans Am. Just not as fast.
My 2002 Eldorado ETC has the same timeless appeal as my 2001 Grand Prix GT Coupe!
I'm a firm believer in brand identity/loyality and if i was a Pontiac buyer i would want my car to look different than a Chevrolet/Oldsmobile/Buick. BUT.....to me the rib look make a cheap statement about the car and i would have sided with John to try to NOT have any at all or as he did put very subtle ones on the car. As the years went by, the ribs on all Pontiacs i think worked against it more than it helped it.
I remember that Automobile mag cover. I wondered why the car took another six years to go on sale. It would be interesting to have John talk about different styles or eras of sketches. I noticed his sketches all have impossibly low front ends and almost cartoon width tires. Modern sketches seem to exaggerate the stance and width. Before John’s era the emphasis seemed to be on exaggerating the length. Maybe John has some CTS sketches…would like to see if those are a different style than his sketches from the 80s.
I agree with ur opinion about cars lasting and testing time.
This generation Grand Prix is one of the last modern cars that I would actually like to own. I don't like much built after the boxy 80's cars. To me, the 80's GM boxy design is the end of the good looking cars.
What's amazing is I that I still see Pontiacs used as daily drivers. I guess people would rather drive these back into the ground and ride in style, than overpay for these vehicles they have now.
Please Sir, what was the final production year for the Pontiac Grand Prix and the Pontiac Bonneville? Thanks 🙏🏾
Those most recent GPs were decent looking cars, but I would've liked to see something like the AWD V8 powertrain from the Monte Carlo on the option list...
Gxp had the v8 and one year before the monte Carlo, neither ever had awd
@@jeffreyshepherd8488 I never knew that about the GXP! I thought I remembered a special edition AWD Monte, but google is confirming that my memory is full of it...
Adam, After considering Part 1 of this interview, I wonder if John has any misgivings about the 'Coupe Sedan' fashion which has eliminated headroom especially in the back seat. These sleek modern sedans look good but what's the point of 4 doors and a back seat if an adult can't comfortably fit back there?
Not at all, there are a multitude of sedan offerings that offer adequate rear headroom. Now, however, everyone wants an SUV.
Just to punish those of us who prefer two doors...
@@dznr723 Hi John, what is the size of passenger you were aiming to accommodate? If you don't mind talking about the bow tie division, as a passenger in our local taxi fleet I easily had sufficient leg and head room in the 2013 Impala . The redesign in 2014 must have dropped rear headroom by 4 inches. At the auto show I could not come close to fitting in it. This is a universal phenomenon, the new $40,000-60,000 Crown has less headroom than a $16,000 Corolla did a decade ago. Since this is a sedan-focused channel I really have to ask, did practical people leave sedans behind or was it the other way around? 😉
@@rightlanehog3151 All of our cars were designed for the 5th -95th %tile customers. 98% tile were tight in the back of Pontiacs, so we left that for Buick, Olds & Chev.
@@dznr723 great interview and insight and I really enjoyed your sketches. I was curious if you were involved in the styling direction of the last generation Grand Prix (2004-‘08)?
John's design themes look athletic and elegant at the same time. How come the production versions only display a general resemblance and differ so much from the excellent designs?
I term this period 'the jelly bean years' and while they aren't the best looking cars ever, you can certainly understand the thinking that went into them as John explains it here. The fact that it still looks like it hasn't aged as much as it has says less about the design process of that time and more about the fact that today's designs are not any more advanced than what people in the industry were doing 30 years ago. The industry is stagnant regarding design as a whole.
John's Oldsmobile sketch looks great. I'd like to know who is responsible for turning these great designs into the production cars which a a much more low rent feel in the end
I was in high school when this came out and remember It coming out vividly. Even then I was mostly a fan of Japanese car designs especially when it comes to the fit and the Fini found myself pretty warm to a lot of the designs from GM in the late 1980s like the Corsica And Beretta. I thought the 97 Grand Prix had a much more dignified if i'd look without all the plestic skirting and Ribs on the 1997 carried on G m's tradition of cheap Plastic fantastic interiors. I do wish that the 99 grand am would have inherited some of the Grand Prix toned down yet handsome looks but no it had that cheap plastic rental car look until until right before the end when they tried to tone Down the Fisher price looking plastics. Not much of a fan however of the last granddam with its weird looking tail. I guess it was a bit more distinctive looking than the intrigue intrigue and regal but it's still headed cheap American car look
Interesting commentary on design - taking that into consideration, I'd nominate the 63 GP as the best single year design of the entire namplate. Not knocking this gen which was certainly attractive and maybe a tick better looking than the W revision that followed.
what a genius