Great video, there are a number of pine forests in the uk where the trees are space no more than a metre apart in some areas. I’m guessing these forests are about 40 years old i’ve been planting trees at spacings of 1 foot apart up to 5 m apart in the areas where the trees have been planted with wider spacing. I’ve planted understory, Berry bushes and shrubs. I’m also working on planting dense fruit and nut, bearing tree stands alongside my farm tracks, and then on the margins of these plantings, I will be planting understory shrubs and herbs. I collected about 100 horse chestnuts which I put in a 2 foot Diameter pot last fall and covered with a 50-50 sand compost mix as I didn’t have time to plant these out. Anyway I forgot about them and they all germinated. I now have a mini forest of 100 horse chestnuts in an area of about 2 foot😂
For a healthy forest, diversity meant age diversity as well as species. The mature miyawaki forest at the end of the video looks more like a tree plantation than a forest. Maybe after planting miyawaki forest, they should come each year cut down some trees and plant new ones or let natural regeneration work, it will provide dead wood, and age diversity to the forest which are very important. Clearing and edges ecosystems are very rich in biodiversity also. I personally think that the best way is to follow natural succession but accompany and accelerate it wisely. That should let the soil, microbes, fungies, plants and animals to come, adapt themselves and evolve in the ecosystem. Miyawaki forest is a good idea but the core idea of it is not be dogmatic and be inventive, we can take inspiration of it but should work with nature for her/our best.
Interesting and inspiring discussion. I agree with you in that it’s likely not optimal to plant so many trees. I’d also add more variety in plant types and include nitrogen fixers. I also think that public food forests give us so much value in the long term that we should really focus on food producing plants even if they cost a lot more now.
I have to thank you Robert. Your videos have helped spark my love for gardening to the next level. I have enjoyed how you teach and have started reading your books as well. I feel like alot of my time and experience are coming together because of your teaching. Looking forward to continue to grow and thrive as a gardener and hopefully give back in the future helping others.
It’s super hot here in the summertime. Do the trees make it through the first summer or do they survive without additional water? And if they do need water, how do you go about getting it to them?
In the video start, that example in Indiana will require continuing stewardship or it will be overrun with bush honeysuckle or autumn olive in short order.
There is a channel called Leave Curious that made a video check in on their miyawaki method vs traditional planting. They have a control group of trees and the miyawaki method group of trees, on the same plot, side by side. I believe it was their 3 or 5 yr check in.
Great vid and I have been impressed with your style of handling information. It would be easy to study a mature forest that was planted tightly for all natural forests where volunteered in such a fashion. I have personally seen trees that flourished in the middle of a thick forest bean pole 60ft to make it to the canopy and when they do. That is the best lumber available since it has next to zero knots/ limbs. Trees like to share unlike some people I know :]
I think hedgerows are different because usually they have a predominant species - for example - yew. Then a farmer would typically not allow the taller canopy trees like oak to damage the hedgerow. Having said that I do recognise that the hedgerows do have subspecies growing near or under them and allows for lots of little animals & birds to flourish. It’s certainly better than a concrete wall!!
I've often wondered about what the cutting down of so many trees everywhere if this could be a part of Global Warming. And with all the fires everywhere sure can't be helping..... Great video.....
This roughly illustrates the difference between planting densely and planting the forest with the plants spread out in a traditional manner: ruclips.net/video/R0d7Hox5J4M/видео.html
The Miyawaki thing is a MARKETING method. When ANY method cost 100,000+ $ per acre (insanely costly !), let me break it up to you, it better grow somewhat nicer than a 100$ per acre conventionnal method. The thing is that the cost to benefit is extremely poor, the Miyawaki method cost does not work 100,000% better than other methods. The cost of the "miyawaki" method is 3000$ per 1000 sq ft, that's 30,000$ per quarter acre. That's 120,000$ per acre. Traditionnal method of tree planting is 100 to 400$ per acre. That means for the same cost a 1000 sq ft patch you could already reforest 10 to 30 acres of land. At the 100k$/acre price range you might as well plant full sized trees with a built in irrigation system, natural ponds and all manners of top notch biodiversity installations. Beats the very purpose of this "alternative" method. Business speaking this is just a way to sell lots and lots of mini digger hours, manual labor, maintenance plan and play on 'green' sentiment, while doing huge margins doing extremely little meaningful work in reality.
There is a lot of generalization in this presentation. There are forests in the desert too (ironwood, mesquite, palo verde) and this description just doesn't apply in my opinion. Most tree instruction say do not significantly amend the soul as the roots just stay in that layer and don't properly anchor the trees or allow the roots to broadly expand. This is clearly northern climate information.
Please take a course on how not to ummm uhhhh I just couldn’t listen any more and turned off the sound-to just see charts and addresses. There is an app that will remove silent gaps- which would be preferable to ahhhhhhhhh or uuummmm which I don’t think there is an app to remove-yet. This is an important project so for the project’s sake please learn to speak without the ummming an uuuuuhhhing which make your presentation unlistenable. I’m sorry to be so critical, if you wish to help with presentation learn to present with speech that is engaging and not off putting with uuuhhhh-ummmmmmm constantly. Have you actually listened and edited yourself? Please do.
came here to say exactly this. I started noticing the umms and uhhs after about 10 minutes and honestly couldn't make it any further through the rest of the video. It's unfortunate because it must have been full of fascinating information.
Great video, there are a number of pine forests in the uk where the trees are space no more than a metre apart in some areas. I’m guessing these forests are about 40 years old i’ve been planting trees at spacings of 1 foot apart up to 5 m apart in the areas where the trees have been planted with wider spacing. I’ve planted understory, Berry bushes and shrubs. I’m also working on planting dense fruit and nut, bearing tree stands alongside my farm tracks, and then on the margins of these plantings, I will be planting understory shrubs and herbs. I collected about 100 horse chestnuts which I put in a 2 foot Diameter pot last fall and covered with a 50-50 sand compost mix as I didn’t have time to plant these out. Anyway I forgot about them and they all germinated. I now have a mini forest of 100 horse chestnuts in an area of about 2 foot😂
For a healthy forest, diversity meant age diversity as well as species. The mature miyawaki forest at the end of the video looks more like a tree plantation than a forest. Maybe after planting miyawaki forest, they should come each year cut down some trees and plant new ones or let natural regeneration work, it will provide dead wood, and age diversity to the forest which are very important. Clearing and edges ecosystems are very rich in biodiversity also.
I personally think that the best way is to follow natural succession but accompany and accelerate it wisely. That should let the soil, microbes, fungies, plants and animals to come, adapt themselves and evolve in the ecosystem.
Miyawaki forest is a good idea but the core idea of it is not be dogmatic and be inventive, we can take inspiration of it but should work with nature for her/our best.
Interesting and inspiring discussion. I agree with you in that it’s likely not optimal to plant so many trees. I’d also add more variety in plant types and include nitrogen fixers.
I also think that public food forests give us so much value in the long term that we should really focus on food producing plants even if they cost a lot more now.
I have to thank you Robert. Your videos have helped spark my love for gardening to the next level. I have enjoyed how you teach and have started reading your books as well. I feel like alot of my time and experience are coming together because of your teaching. Looking forward to continue to grow and thrive as a gardener and hopefully give back in the future helping others.
Thank you for bringing a sceptical perspective!
It’s super hot here in the summertime. Do the trees make it through the first summer or do they survive without additional water? And if they do need water, how do you go about getting it to them?
Thank you Mr. P. 🪻🌷💚🙃
In the video start, that example in Indiana will require continuing stewardship or it will be overrun with bush honeysuckle or autumn olive in short order.
There is a channel called Leave Curious that made a video check in on their miyawaki method vs traditional planting. They have a control group of trees and the miyawaki method group of trees, on the same plot, side by side. I believe it was their 3 or 5 yr check in.
ruclips.net/video/R0d7Hox5J4M/видео.htmlsi=xtCRozkK8vevvuPj
Great information. Love your channel.
Great vid and I have been impressed with your style of handling information. It would be easy to study a mature forest that was planted tightly for all natural forests where volunteered in such a fashion. I have personally seen trees that flourished in the middle of a thick forest bean pole 60ft to make it to the canopy and when they do. That is the best lumber available since it has next to zero knots/ limbs. Trees like to share unlike some people I know :]
Great ideas.
How do you stop brambles and Iv?y from taking over
I wonder if Ontario should give special consideration to tree species that can survive ice storms.
❤Thank You😊
How is the end result different from natural hedges people have been using for centuries in Europe?
I think hedgerows are different because usually they have a predominant species - for example - yew.
Then a farmer would typically not allow the taller canopy trees like oak to damage the hedgerow.
Having said that I do recognise that the hedgerows do have subspecies growing near or under them and allows for lots of little animals & birds to flourish.
It’s certainly better than a concrete wall!!
I've often wondered about what the cutting down of so many trees everywhere if this could be a part of Global Warming. And with all the fires everywhere sure can't be helping.....
Great video.....
I don't understand your first sentence, but anyway it will please you to learn that in the US forest cover has increased by 5% between 1990 and 2020
This roughly illustrates the difference between planting densely and planting the forest with the plants spread out in a traditional manner: ruclips.net/video/R0d7Hox5J4M/видео.html
The Miyawaki thing is a MARKETING method. When ANY method cost 100,000+ $ per acre (insanely costly !), let me break it up to you, it better grow somewhat nicer than a 100$ per acre conventionnal method. The thing is that the cost to benefit is extremely poor, the Miyawaki method cost does not work 100,000% better than other methods.
The cost of the "miyawaki" method is 3000$ per 1000 sq ft, that's 30,000$ per quarter acre. That's 120,000$ per acre. Traditionnal method of tree planting is 100 to 400$ per acre. That means for the same cost a 1000 sq ft patch you could already reforest 10 to 30 acres of land. At the 100k$/acre price range you might as well plant full sized trees with a built in irrigation system, natural ponds and all manners of top notch biodiversity installations. Beats the very purpose of this "alternative" method. Business speaking this is just a way to sell lots and lots of mini digger hours, manual labor, maintenance plan and play on 'green' sentiment, while doing huge margins doing extremely little meaningful work in reality.
Why you call it miyavaki or any method,if ppl did it hundreds years before and keep doing it all around the world
There is a lot of generalization in this presentation. There are forests in the desert too (ironwood, mesquite, palo verde) and this description just doesn't apply in my opinion. Most tree instruction say do not significantly amend the soul as the roots just stay in that layer and don't properly anchor the trees or allow the roots to broadly expand. This is clearly northern climate information.
Please take a course on how not to ummm uhhhh I just couldn’t listen any more and turned off the sound-to just see charts and addresses. There is an app that will remove silent gaps- which would be preferable to ahhhhhhhhh or uuummmm which I don’t think there is an app to remove-yet. This is an important project so for the project’s sake please learn to speak without the ummming an uuuuuhhhing which make your presentation unlistenable. I’m sorry to be so critical, if you wish to help with presentation learn to present with speech that is engaging and not off putting with uuuhhhh-ummmmmmm constantly. Have you actually listened and edited yourself? Please do.
came here to say exactly this. I started noticing the umms and uhhs after about 10 minutes and honestly couldn't make it any further through the rest of the video. It's unfortunate because it must have been full of fascinating information.