How Dare You - Pastor Mark Driscoll (sermon clip)
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- Опубликовано: 23 мар 2024
- Mark Driscoll preaches on "Marriage and Men" in a sermon from March 22, 2009.
Full story: julieroys.com/mark-driscoll-tries-to-justify-how-dare-you-sermon-but-facts-dont-match-testimony-others/
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I do not know this man at all.
But I would never fill out a card that was passed in the plate in this church to get connected to him. his false anger and shame blaming toward the people under his supposed "care" is SO fake and over the top. Just my thoughts. Preach the gospel from the Bible and let the Holy Spirit convict.
The Holy Spirits Job! Yes!!
There is a well-done docu-series by Christianity Today on YT going over this pastor and the story of Mars Hill Church. It's pretty long and detailed, includes this snippet, and is worth the listen to those interested ( or called ) in Christian Community Polity, leadership issues, psychology of his pastoring. Don't want to give away spoilers, in a way. Suffice to say: people interested in this channel would probably be interested in that series.
This is an old clip in the hay day of Mars Hill Church. It was booming back then. (spoiler) It all fell apart.
God used this sermon to set me free from years of abuse by a “Christian” man. He is preaching truth…and it made me realize I was a daughter of the King and I deserved to be loved.
TGBTG ♥️
@ChristineCouncil - Good for you for getting out from and away from abuse, and from a Christian man. I would hope that pastors like Driscoll also include sermons confronting women on their abuse of their BFs or husbands as well. Sorry for your pain, Peace, Truth, Love, Healing to you.
Wow, Julie. My husband went to Promise Keepers several time, was in men's groups for awhile, but he never really gave himself over, held onto his pride and his idols. He was about to be made leader of his men's group, and he pushed me into the wall, caved in the plaster. I looked at him and told him he couldn't be a men's leader, I would tell them. I should have gone to the church leaders and told them anyway. I don't know why I didn't.
I'll get up and get my kids anytime i want.
I could hardly even stand to watch this….. no excuse for talking to anyone like this.. and I’ve been a victim of Domestic Violence. This is no way to draw men to Christ and the Love of God..or evoke a desire to change. I’m surprised one of them didn’t get up from his seat and knock him on his butt… wow
Now I know, we are in the last days. Thank you sister for your work.
As he goes on he shames men for "not submitting to spiritual authority". Well, if you've done your homework on this pastor and community of Mars Hill, then you'll know how controlling and prying they were in their leadership structure. This sermon snippet has kernels of truth mixed in with only calling out men for their immaturitiies / neglect / abuse of their GFs or wives. This community also had a subtle, yet degrading view of women. It's a fascinating case study, because again, there are kernels of truth mixed in with this overdose of shaming of men as THE most responsible in relationships, i.e. holding to an improper view of women as "weaker vessels" in that they just can't seem to handle an equal level of responsibility. As complements in marriage. A brand of sexism that I've witnessed for decades in the more conservative branches of Evangelical communities. To be fair here, Driscoll had very supportive, generous sides to himself in the building up of their community. It at least goes to show that we humans are complex, God is the best and competent Judge of us all, and yet we still have to deal with each other and discern where a person is going way too far to commit the hypocrisy of abusing others while calling out abuse. ( P.S. - Wondering if Driscoll every preached as confrontational and aggressive of a sermon against women in the community who were dragging their feet, not getting married, abusing their BFs or husbands. )
Ladies and gentlemen, projection at its finest
It sad that bullying has become so normal to us that we can’t recognize it as such anymore.
I have gone through physical, sexual, spiritual and mental abuses so many times that I now see how I can not notice red flags as quickly as I should because it’s familiar to me.
I used to love fire and brimstone preaching, until recent. I can be drawn to bold, “tell it like it is” leaders. I love being challenged and held accountable at all costs.
I am right now going through healing recovery from a pastor that was psychological abusive.
He would used shame-based preaching. We all thought it was amazing to have a pastor that called sinful things out so boldly.
These personalities can affirm you one minute and abuse you the next, too easily. It’s a narcissistic trait. With social medias and beloved preachers and politicians we have cultivated a society that loves narcissistic behaviors. It’s become so common that we aren’t familiar with meekness and humility.
This is not healthy. Just because he is verbally standing up for women and calling sin out doesn’t automatically receive a pass. He is shaming these men for shaming and sinning against women. That’s like physically hitting a child for hitting their sibling.
The pastor I’m trying to heal from right now was very supportive of me one on one until things didn’t go his way…Then, the second he felt I crossed him and/or cut off his validation supply that very same bold temperament flipped on me and it was used to abuse me. Now I’m dealing with the hierarchy of church leadership to report misconducts. I have cried so many times asking myself how could i have allowed this to happen to me “again”….It’s because I sat in the pews with admiration for a preacher letting us have it and having strict expectations for the community. Looking back I see how this opens the floodgates for a pastor to weaponize your vulnerabilities.
As it’s often said, “we teach people how to treat us.” Not to say I or anyone ever deserves being abused in any way..BUT…I know I can and have often times justify red flags like this because at that moment it served me in some way. Or it was just familiar so didn’t see. These personalities can provoke dopamine hits. They can cause adrenaline rushes. Therefore, we become attached to these patterns. Perhaps it’s similar to as a teen being drawn to that “bad boy” type of guy. 🤷🏽♀️
Sorry for your abusive experiences. Yes, the bond can be strong - "trauma bonding." You might be interested in reading & sharing the book, Why Does He Do That? Inside the minds of angry & controlling men , by Lundy Bancroft. I heard him speak once. Very good.
@@jesussavemetoday975 Thank you for your compassion. Yes, I’m very familiar with trauma bonding. I’ve read Patrick Carnes book on it many years ago. He was the one that coined that term.
What’s interesting was I recommended that book to this recent pastor that I speak of in my original comment. Thanks again. God bless.
What is your pont Julie of showing this?
Yes, it seems at face value Julie is agreeing with and promoting this message. But she’s posted about his abuse before I believe. So I think she’s showing his yelling, shaming and abusive tone. We are to Teach in gentleness and humility.
Bravo!!!!!!!
Great message ..
I've heard a smaller section of this clip before. Now that I've heard it in context it's even worse than I could have imagined. He is a despicable man.
People do your research on the Mars Hill Church...
I found this man so aggressive I could not keep watching.
I wonder if he realizes that some of his teachings promote the very behavior he's rightly, but very harshly speaking against?
Oh my God! 4:48 😮Those are some heavy words ! This is exactly why people have a wrong view of Jesus. He's not bipolar 😢
Actually... he's not wrong in this clip. Driscoll was guilty of some serious stuff, but this clip about men acting like unbelievers is fairly spot on.
Mark Driscoll is speaking to himself. This is a classic case of psychological projection. ✔️
Anyone know which episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill talks about this message? Would be interesting to go back and measure it against Driscoll's recent statements.
They didnt talk about this. Nothing negative they could find!
Yes something about him using this and looping it? On some media stuff? Made a bunch of money or something. Hurt a lot of people and used their time toxically from what I’ve heard from the volunteers interviews. Don’t quote me on that but from what I remember even this clip wasn’t a good thing it was staged
Amen
He merely stated the fact, not threatening. If those things have been going on for quite some time. And they repeated it ample times, it is OK to give warning based on reliable info.
I don't know you, and obviously, it was not threatening to you, but it was VERY threatening, unloving, and unsafe to me. Like an abusive parent about to punch me. I would have gone out the door, never to return.
Exactly,
He is an angry abusivemand and was told to leave the church because of so much what he says it's a spirit in which he says it
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I watched the whole sermon ( ruclips.net/video/w_MvtQrGkLk/видео.html&lc=UgyXWImAmOlvFTAz7s14AaABAg )
It was more than remarkable ...
He was calling out men who abuse, betray, ignore, aren’t responsible, throw temper tantrums, are addicted to drugs/alcohol or pornography, can’t hold a job, are immature- etc
It was intense!!
I 1000% agreed with what he said !!
He called out the manipulative, unkind, ugly abusive, molesters, that prey upon women
And Don’t Protect women and children!!
I applaud his bravery!!
Hope that helped.
Not sure why Julie posted such a great defense of women, girls and children 🤔
It’s not a bad thing.
It’s REALLY needed nowadays ❤
Is that you, Mark?
@@MarkMay-cr6bv Not even close.
I’m about 2500 miles from him.
Don’t even know anyone he knows and never went to his church.
Merely took in what he said, watched his body language, thought critically about what he said and came away from it …
appreciating his courage to confront
Immature boys who pretend to be men, husbands or fathers.
Brainwashed by society and the culture..
This country wouldn’t be in the condition it’s in IF …
MEN WERE MEN-- strong, able, mature, hard working thinkers who resolve issues well, the kind of man
GOD INTENDED/ CREATED-
Protectors of women and children.
So no Mark, sorry to disappoint you!!
@@Thankful305 - Can't agree with your "1000%" take. It's not so black/white, if you truly know the entire story of Mars Hill. One sermon is not anywhere near enough to judge the context. Any cult leader can preach the same sermon. You gotta go for a much deeper dive into various aspects of the leadership structure and procedures, how differences of opinion are handled, the background story of Driscoll, his temperament, his biases, his words and actions, his tone, hypocrisies, the good, bad and ugly.
If you haven't already, seek out and watch / listen to the entire Rise and Fall of Mars Hill series on the Christianity Today YT channel. Communities, individuals are far more complex than one sermon. And, believe me, I've played sports and am not so thrown off by this kind of tenor in a sermon, it's just not so clear and easy for me in my critical thinking and experience around similar pastoral leaders to give a Shout Out and High Five to this. It's more than the kernels of truth and timeliness to shake up some men. There can be costs to this kind of sermon that are hardly ever factored in. ( Hence, watch that series in its entirety. Or if you have, what are your thoughts on it? )
Mark is a giant insecure dork. he's always screaming at men to " get a job" while his "job" is words from stage and having people put money in an offering plate to pay his salary.
Hard pass.
@@machtnichtsseimann the gifts and callings from God and OF God are irrevocable !
The “message” was true and needed!
The messenger has issues- I get it.
Thanks for sharing your TCO’s
Why would you post this clip? Say why.
I would have been laughing at his High helium voice 😂
What is the purpose of airing this? Is he supposed to be the example of setting men within the church straight?
I'm kinda amazed anyone found this buffoon intimidating. I honestly would have been laughing at this if I was in the audience.
This is one thing he shouldn’t have been criticized for
100%
Why not? Is this "speaking the truth in love" or a pastor high on himself?
And would he be fine with yelling at him for his shortcomings?
If he's fine with it, is that a good thing?
Is this ever appropriate?
@@machtnichtsseimann obviously you didn’t watch the whole video so you could understand the “context”.
But you’re free to assume whatever you’d like.
I respect women as I should
But is this a clip of the WWF?
Woah the screaming - he seems too tooo comfortable screaming and pointing his finger like that. Yikes he is scary
Love is patient, love is kind… love is not rude. I think the insulting is really the part that is so cringey.
Mark Driscoll listed a lot of scenarios there-fornicators should be judged, not people making out in a totally consensual way with their girlfriend or boyfriend. Why not exhort them towards holiness and greater self-control? Does Mark Driscoll really think the woman has no responsibility to be holy and pure, just the same as a godly man? I die laughing. How many people have truly been pure? How many? For real. What about Mark…? Let me ask him…
My comment is based on this clip only as I did not watch the entire sermon. I'm not a fan nor would I sit under a pastor who yells, however I found the sermon to be very good and convicting but prefer line by line Bible teaching versus topical. Let the word of God do its job as it has the power to pierce the heart with truth. ❤️
He’s an angry little elf… South Pole.
Women and children need more men like Pastor Mark.
You are sooooo right!
The words pot....kettle......black spring to mind for some unfathomable reason...🤷🤔
Dude is off his rocker....NARCISSIST
Yeah he shouldnt speak out against guys taking advantage of women ... what an awful dude to call out dudes that theeaten women.
@@stevenflight 🤣🤣Right!!
How dare he protect women and children !! What a jerk 🤣🤣
Cmon y’all get with the program!!
Bash men who stuck up for women--join the misogyny movement 🤣🤣
Just wow.
Context is everything. Why not show the entire sermon? Was he being overly dramatic at this point? Sure. Would he have done it differently if he preached it today? Perhaps. But if you understand things based on context even apart from the sermon, you will realize how much he is standing up for the many women who had revealed sexual and physical abuse to him and that should get us all fired up. I believe this man to be innocent of the vast majority of the accusations that had been hurled at him. I pray for his vindication. The Holy Spirit knows his heart. God bless you Pastor Mark!
His words are quite biased in a direction that cannot now, nor ever will heal humanity.
These are gross oversimplifications to such a magnitude that I do not know why he spoke them at all. His imbalance transgresses scripture even though it ‘sounds’ righteous.
He basically preaching feminism to divide the flock down gender lines for profit!
Notice how at 4:00 he switches topically to tithes. Ephesians 5v24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their OWN husbands in every thing.
What often happens with greedy reprobate pulpits is they want more money and they know the woman will claim to earn less, so the wolf will sow discord between gender roles in order to usurp marriage headship from husbands like the Eden serpent did to Eve. The snake pulpits care nothing for true righteousness. All they want is power over people’s lives to build their own tower of iniquity. They are pulpit scammers which makes it even harder for true righteousness pastors to retain a good reputation because it makes all pastors look like swindling greedy pickpockets shouting PTL (pass the loot.)
Wonderful sermon! Even better than anything in the Bible! May God bless you Pastor Mark!!
Does he know Greta?
Oh to God there were more preachers of righteousness in this hour ! Calling on men to repent of their passivity, indifference and immorality. So go the men, so go the nation! If most biblical prophets were alive today I am sure they would be in the Roys Report.
Yes, but he’s disqualified. He shouldn’t be up there.
Yes and No to the OP's comment. There is a cross-section of men who aren't so put off by the Bobby Knight kind of yelling that this pastor exhibited. Such men played sports, don't take Tough Love as hatred or "the Flesh", and can find it very constructive. On the other hand, where only certain aspects of "passivity, indifference and immorality" are called out, not a more thorough reckoning of the soul, then you'll get a Mars Hill experience. ( Look up what happened to this pastor. ) This reminds me of the film, "Whiplash". IMHO, there are no simplistic answers across the board for everyone. My heart and mind do rally around true victims of abuse first. We just seem to be, in Society and the Church, still debating if there is a one-size-fits-all judgment of abuse/victim or not.
@@kimmymcbride4722 - Good points. Valid. When conversing with a Christian from Southeast Asia, he being of Chinese descent, he said that losing one's temper in public was seen as disgraceful or the sign of a weak man, IIRC. Point being, through his cultural lens he would have viewed this outburst by Driscoll in the same light. It's an example of how Christians can have very different takes on the same action from a pastor. We can learn from each other, if open to it.
S.I.G.N. Language at its finest. Shame Insult Guilt Need to be right.
maybe this is just part of the clip, but when the truth is given in a hard fashion, without an equal dose of grace, the message does not do what was intended. Christ came FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH, not part of either or all of one.
What is wrong with what he is said?
I watched the whole sermon ( ruclips.net/video/w_MvtQrGkLk/видео.html&lc=UgyXWImAmOlvFTAz7s14AaABAg )
It was more than remarkable ...
He was calling out men who abuse, betray, ignore, aren’t responsible, throw temper tantrums, are addicted to drugs/alcohol or pornography, can’t hold a job, are immature- etc
It was intense!!
I 1000% agreed with what he said !!
He called out the manipulative, unkind, ugly abusive, molesters, that prey upon women
And Don’t Protect women and children!!
I applaud his bravery!!
Hope that helped.
Not sure why Julie posted such a great defense of women, girls and children 🤔
It’s not a bad thing.
It’s REALLY needed nowadays ❤
Mark Driscoll has a history of spiritual abuse. Read the "Full Story" website given under the video. Here's a quote, "Driscoll resigned from Mars Hill in 2014, after an internal investigation at the church found Driscoll guilty of “arrogance,” “a quick temper,” and leading “in a domineering manner.” He then moved to Scottsdale, Arizona, and launched The Trinity Church, where some former staff have accused him of cult-like actions, like mandated loyalty and 24/7 surveillance of members."
I thought the video was good at first but then he really went over the top with the insults and condemnation. And the fact that he kept saying "you" and "your" and pointing his finger at the WHOLE congregation as if they were all guilty was inappropriate.
Nothing
@@cult11
I have been on the receiving end of the man he laid out.
And I can tell you that being emotionally raped is a sin against women and children--
It IS wrong and NO-ONE is brave enough or has balls enough to say…
“How Dare You!!!😡😤
Bullying, yelling, backing someone in a corner who is guiltless/innocent/good natured just because they feel like it??
Yes that’s wrong! But that’s what he’s talking about JERKS -- like maybe himself.
I know personally I appreciated his stand to protect women and children ♥️
It’s about time !!!
#jussayin
@@Thankful305I'm very sorry you were abused, and I agree that he is taking a strong stand against men abusing women. I hope you are in safe and healthy relationships now.
This guy should be cloned.
I went to listen to the whole sermon at the link someone provided. This seems like a case of a desperately needed message for the Body of Christ being delivered through what I would say (based on the Lord's dealings with me) is an "uncircumcised" vessel/heart - - The unnecessary "flesh" needed to be circumcised and discarded from this message, without the essentials being castrated so that it wouldn't lose its potency. (Sorry for the graphic language). It's confusing to teach against abusive forms of leadership while modeling it at the same time. I do understand that sometimes a strong rebuke is needed and I appreciate any righteous anger directed toward defending women and children, but I would think even such strong rebukes from righteous anger should still be able to pass the test of "in your anger, do not sin" and "speaking the truth in love" (as well as other Scriptural guidelines for rebuke). If he is this insulting, belittling, and explosively raging while being filmed in public (where ppl tend to be on their best behavior - as he said of men during the dating phase), I hate to imagine what he could be like behind closed doors. This sort of rage over evil (which is understandable), would be better channeled toward the true enemy in the spiritual realm, not toward people.
I don't know the specifics of the accusations against him some have alluded to here. I just regret that such a needed message is being remembered and upheld for the negative reasons (the "flesh" that should have been circumcised from it) rather than for all the essential and potent truth that men desperately need to hear. Where are the leaders who will teach these truths with the right spirit and heart to this generation? I'm concerned most of them have been compromised by the spirit of this age as well and too few are left who can teach such a word without being steeped in hypocrisy. What he says about those living in these lifestyles of unrepentant sin not even being genuinely born again (even those behind the pulpit and in leadership) is so true. So many are deceived about their salvation. God help us. We need the John the Baptist calling finally fulfilled to bring repentance, refining fire, and fuller's soap to purify and prepare the way for the Lord.
become a member? well, what he says is true but his delivery is manipulative, guilting and abusive. Then give us $$😂
He’s disqualified. Why anyone attends is beyond me.