I would disagree - there are just too many of the "Special Editions" -flavour of the month or minute. if it is every year, how it is so special even if there are slight differences. I don't even care about them at all and I love GB coins!!!!
Not gonna lie..but your sovereign gold coin set looks absolutely stunning, regardless if it’s going to be a worthwhile investment or not. Can’t put a price on beauty.
The new 2023 Sovereign still hasn't sold out after 10 days which would indicate everyone that wants one has it. The 2022 Memorial Sovereign sold out after about a week and a PF70 recently sold at auction for £500 thats £200 less than the original price. I'm thinking the 2023 will go the same way so not a good investment.
Short term, probably not a good investment, but 10+ years time, they will be sure fire investments. Platinum Jubilee Memorial and Coronation sovereigns I mean.
I think people who want some of these designs should buy this year while the market is flooded. In two/three years the market will be more solid and coins find their way to more permanent collections.
Whi8ky you have got it in one but Russell don’t want you telling people the truth as it’s not good for is business the royal mint or Russell & all the flippers don’t care one bit about there customers they just all there to take advantage of you
The Sovereign is supposed to be symbolic of stability - a constant though change. The Royal Mint needs to go back to just plain old regular sovereigns for the next 10 years at least. There are no more reasons (excuses!) to do any more special Sovereigns. There are enough other random commemorative ranges they can go to town with.
Russell all what you say now is the opposite from what you said when the memorial came out there’s nothing wrong with the last two sovereign releases but price to high Mintages to high & his the most graded pr70 coin it’s never going to be a success compare to all the others everybody knows that your just six months behind everybody else
"I completely agree with your take. 'I got all the specials in various sizes from the 5 to 1/4. I'm done now. If they release another, I will just ignore it.
You say this now...but when that next new gorgeous chunk of gold bats its beautiful eyelashes at you, you will grow weak at the knees and again out will come your.........wallet!
The RM will not show restraint. When your business model is yielding you huge profits, you don't change a thing. The market will continue to snap up these products. RM's margins are so huge that they'll be able to absorb any temporary short term declines in sale volume even if they happen.
Hey Numi! I believe that the mint is doing the correct business deal! They’re capitalizing on the few events which have happened over the past year! The Queen’s platinum jubilee, the passing of her majesty and the ascension of his majesty the King! These are all one off events which obviously will never occur again, possibly making these coins very valuable in the distant future! Yes some of the mintages are high, but we’re talking about humans and only God knows what conditions some of these coins will be preserved in! Great video as always! Definitely something to think about!
Yes without a doubt. Would of been better to not have the crowned effigy on the new bullion sovereigns or not produced any bullion coins as they did in 1989
Lovely proof set, no doubt about it even if Royal Mint quality control are incapable of screwing capsules on properly. At least that's a vast improvement over the friction push fit caps that popped open as soon as you attempted to extract a proof from its case - that happened to me with my 2017 special edition. Talking of which, Numi you forgot 2016 "Butler" off your list - late Queen's 90th birthday celebration. I keep banging on about R.M. pricing (far in excess of spot) but you're right, the flamin' mintages are excessive too.
I think the Royal Mint have strayed into beanie baby territory, if their products weren't made of a sovereign's usual 22ct bullion and proof products, a yawn factor might have crept in I have the earliest 1957 first QE2 issue and all the jubilee issues and some proof period dates where a bullion option was not available. My personal feeling is that modern minting processes produce a very good bullion standard, making the proof versions over 'engineered' and pretentiously over priced. However if you have the wherewithal to pay that huge difference and with all that glossy packaging, with the product 'sitting in the dark' with its COA, why not buy a bullion equivalent while your at it? I love collecting sovereigns, my date gaps narrow every month, but im not going to pay 50% over the top all the time I can get quality sovereigns at spot plus 5%.
Hi Numi, I think RM have nailed it with the last couple of releases regarding the sovereign. Interesting to hear your thoughts on no special designs moving forward for a few years, makes sense 👌🏽
There's a growing interest yes. And being the coronation year, it would be a shame if those of his Royal Majesty's subjects whom wanted a proof coin, without having to deal with aftermarket scalping, could get one. Where the concept of generosity of intent from the Royal Mint falls down however, is the constant edging up in premiums. Perth Mint can produce high quality, error free proofs for a fraction of the premium which the Royal Mint expects to be able to squeeze out of its loyal buyers.
I used to love the strike on the day sovereigns but when The Royal Mint started coming out with them fairly frequently it kinda of hurt the values of them in the secondary market. Examples include Prince Georgia's 5th Birthday and the VJ Day SOTD sovereigns among others. It's off topic but I can't believe how far down the prices have come on the 2 oz. Una and The Lion silver proof coin...
Interesring didnt kown 750 was the limit before. Moving with markets I guess. Didnt change alot before the 5 coins set sold out, but its and indicator for sure. They need to employ expereinced market strategists. Literally make a department, core values, one of the mints that can command this kind of thing on legacy and cumulative expereince reputaion is them. And rarity based on their legacy reputation would work at a shorterm loss on paper. Maybe some market analysts and a few specialists and leads. The 100oz una and the lion bar was the same, 1000+. Mind you some of them have been ruined by Regal Stacker with his egg and burying experiments lol 😂! They are looking at global markets where mintages and short term money can be made... Not ideal. They need to maybe honour their history. The UK had a completely different model becasue it is so old. That reputation and that prestige will quickly be diluted if they keep copying global mintages and global business models. Its like they are not confident. I do like that they are taking all this on board. But really they should be a prestige and rare club that they once were. The global point of sale mentality doesnt give their strategy any longterm benefits... it acutally erodes it. But workers, managers, CEOs dont stick around long enough these day to see the rewards. My grand father worked for the same high end engineering company all is life... Rarely happens now. Its about making a quick buck then moving to the next company now unfortunately. If the mints jewelery endevour goss full steam. Maybe the prestige side of the model can keep the reputation high by using money from that. Who knows. They need business ppl and analysts, and they need to vet and pay them well to get the best of the best... difficult one indeed. But not impossible.
I think Gillicks and QEII sovs before 1985 will be more collectible than the newer sovs. Too much supply gobbled up by collectors to immediately grade or put away
Great video and interesting discussion I personally tapped out and stopped buying after the memorial coin as with my Britannia collection, price rises and number of coins being released I gave up and bought stocks instead. I have however started to look back at the coins and have taken the plunge on the 2024 Sov but can’t say I’m that excited to buy another ‘special’ coin if it pops out the RM marketing teams heads
I agree, any different designs would need some huge set of circumstances to justify minting them. What may not be on many peoples radar is a possible fundamental revaluation of gold. Example, if to save fiat currencies from collapse Central banks agree to revalue gold at say €/£/$50k, and if production continued with premiums at 5%, a sovereign might cost €/£/$14k. Now from relatively recent economic era's, very few sovereigns were minted between 1932 - 1953, there are no Elizabeth 1960, 1961, 1975 and 1977 sovereigns and for a period during the late 1980 - 2000 only proof coins and in sets were struck. So little or no production of a standard gold production is not unthinkable, but this numismatics guy speaks, in my opinion, with an attitude that future issues might or might not get an uptake. I would say likely not available, so get whatever sovereigns you can while you can.
@@harryzero1566 we will never have a good back currency again. They can keep fiat going a lot longer than people think and the replacement is designed ready for when they can no longer revive it , it's the CBDCs.
With the rms quality control problems delayed delivery and shocking prices the special sovereigns have destroyed the reputation of this flagship coin! I've been buying bu sovereigns for some time now for a stack and people I know have been selling their bu sovereigns to buy other bullion products as they're seeing sovereigns as a high premium product from a mint with zero standards.
I think the mint have spoiled the broth with more or less every release. Not that many of their previous releases were great for investment as after a number of years the price would usually drop back to release price or less. I used to be able to pick up even the 89 versions for less than the price of a new release proof sovereign at times. Granted there has been a large increase in the number of people buying releases to flip straight away or to have certified and then flip but I think this is probably a temporary thing and the market will drop back again. More quickly if the mint keeps releasing more and more coins at higher and higher prices, in higher numbers minted and more often. A lot of the current releases aren’t even that great looking.
The most I have paid for a proof sovereign set was 12% over spot for a 1987 3-coin set. The least, spot +2%. Somebody had to lose money for those numbers to be possible.
@@Numistacker they lost their premium over spot though. With a special year design and the coronation piece in particular, one would presume somewhat of a sustained interest in the marketplace. Same with the Memorial. We're looking at these things without the benefit of hindsight however, and market cycles can take some interesting twists and turns, bull markets don't last forever. Certainly you shouldn't sell low, but some may indeed do that, leading to bargains had by somebody at some point in the interest cycle.
@@Numistacker Spot has risen, but enough to cover inflation and the initial high premiums? Some of the earlier low costs might appear to make a sale look profitable, but when those costs are converted to 2023 currency, the profits go up in smoke.
The Mint themselves created a Beast they could not control - the Flipper Beast. Ordinarily this Beast is limited to a percentage mark up that is OK for rhe secondary market to handle. But with Special Design's brings greed and profiteering - but those same Beast's have been put on a starvation diet of Inflation and shortage of spare cash in collectors pockets The Mint made a mistake on this one of doing a Coronation Strike on the Day, followed up by a complete suite of Proof Sovereign's. Mintage numbers were to optimistic and i would not be surprised to see some of rhese still being peddled by the Mint nearer Christmas. The current Gold price per coin is around £390 so at £725 for a Proof is - errrr Dick Turpin territory. As you aay Numi, time to settle back into a standard design and a lower premium. £625 to £650 is fair in this market for a Proof Sovereign. Listen up the Mint - your collector's have spoken. Or should I say "have done a runner!"
the thing is everyone grading now with ngc and the 70 are so easy to get the last 3 sovereign will in time be graded in the thousands making it easy to get a 70 prices to high with grading fees and mintage figures as we go forward the sovereign will keep getting high numbers in a 70. there are not as many collectors now more dealers the game has gone in my eyes
@@susanainsley4725 It will be interesting going forward if NGC loses credibility on Modern Coin grading?? The older coins they grade are generally comparable with PCGS.
I would disagree - there are just too many of the "Special Editions" -flavour of the month or minute. if it is every year, how it is so special even if there are slight differences. I don't even care about them at all and I love GB coins!!!!
I can't bring myself to purchase anything with a World Economic Forum King Obverse design on any gold or silver coin.
!
Not gonna lie..but your sovereign gold coin set looks absolutely stunning, regardless if it’s going to be a worthwhile investment or not. Can’t put a price on beauty.
It does look beautiful that’s for sure
The new 2023 Sovereign still hasn't sold out after 10 days which would indicate everyone that wants one has it. The 2022 Memorial Sovereign sold out after about a week and a PF70 recently sold at auction for £500 thats £200 less than the original price. I'm thinking the 2023 will go the same way so not a good investment.
Short term, probably not a good investment, but 10+ years time, they will be sure fire investments.
Platinum Jubilee
Memorial and
Coronation sovereigns I mean.
I think people who want some of these designs should buy this year while the market is flooded. In two/three years the market will be more solid and coins find their way to more permanent collections.
Whi8ky you have got it in one but Russell don’t want you telling people the truth as it’s not good for is business the royal mint or Russell & all the flippers don’t care one bit about there customers they just all there to take advantage of you
Ace coins. They're a solid and reliable fractional coin to have. The market is expanding. As you say, slow it down a bit. Get them all.
I got the proof sovereign recently. 👍
The Sovereign is supposed to be symbolic of stability - a constant though change.
The Royal Mint needs to go back to just plain old regular sovereigns for the next 10 years at least. There are no more reasons (excuses!) to do any more special Sovereigns.
There are enough other random commemorative ranges they can go to town with.
Yes special edition Sovereigns are nothing special anymore. A pity.
Russell all what you say now is the opposite from what you said when the memorial came out there’s nothing wrong with the last two sovereign releases but price to high Mintages to high & his the most graded pr70 coin it’s never going to be a success compare to all the others everybody knows that your just six months behind everybody else
"I completely agree with your take. 'I got all the specials in various sizes from the 5 to 1/4. I'm done now. If they release another, I will just ignore it.
You say this now...but when that next new gorgeous chunk of gold bats its beautiful eyelashes at you, you will grow weak at the knees and again out will come your.........wallet!
Что ты всё делаешь ролики про современную ерунду, ты делай ролики про старые монеты в отличном состоянии, кроны!!!
To me, premium is leading, what ever the special edition.
The RM will not show restraint. When your business model is yielding you huge profits, you don't change a thing. The market will continue to snap up these products. RM's margins are so huge that they'll be able to absorb any temporary short term declines in sale volume even if they happen.
You are probably right
Not only have they cooked it, but they also consumed the roast 😂
Hey Numi! I believe that the mint is doing the correct business deal! They’re capitalizing on the few events which have happened over the past year! The Queen’s platinum jubilee, the passing of her majesty and the ascension of his majesty the King! These are all one off events which obviously will never occur again, possibly making these coins very valuable in the distant future! Yes some of the mintages are high, but we’re talking about humans and only God knows what conditions some of these coins will be preserved in! Great video as always! Definitely something to think about!
Any ngc mega results coming soon? Nice set, hope the coin that the capsule had opened up on is problem free 👍
It was irritating 😠 but coin is good
Reduce the premiums would be a good way to get collectors back
And minting less coins
Yes without a doubt. Would of been better to not have the crowned effigy on the new bullion sovereigns or not produced any bullion coins as they did in 1989
Lovely proof set, no doubt about it even if Royal Mint quality control are incapable of screwing capsules on properly. At least that's a vast improvement over the friction push fit caps that popped open as soon as you attempted to extract a proof from its case - that happened to me with my 2017 special edition. Talking of which, Numi you forgot 2016 "Butler" off your list - late Queen's 90th birthday celebration. I keep banging on about R.M. pricing (far in excess of spot) but you're right, the flamin' mintages are excessive too.
Yes thankfully it was not harmed
I think the Royal Mint have strayed into beanie baby territory, if their products weren't made of a sovereign's usual 22ct bullion and proof products, a yawn factor might have crept in
I have the earliest 1957 first QE2 issue and all the jubilee issues and some proof period dates where a bullion option was not available.
My personal feeling is that modern minting processes produce a very good bullion standard, making the proof versions over 'engineered' and pretentiously over priced.
However if you have the wherewithal to pay that huge difference and with all that glossy packaging, with the product 'sitting in the dark' with its COA, why not buy a bullion equivalent while your at it?
I love collecting sovereigns, my date gaps narrow every month, but im not going to pay 50% over the top all the time I can get quality sovereigns at spot plus 5%.
Hi Numi, I think RM have nailed it with the last couple of releases regarding the sovereign.
Interesting to hear your thoughts on no special designs moving forward for a few years, makes sense 👌🏽
If every year is special what is special?
The royal mint have nail it alright they got your money in there bank & can buy them back at £150 cheaper graded in pr70
@deancanfield6103 Jesus bud why do you even watch this channel 😑 🤣
There's a growing interest yes. And being the coronation year, it would be a shame if those of his Royal Majesty's subjects whom wanted a proof coin, without having to deal with aftermarket scalping, could get one. Where the concept of generosity of intent from the Royal Mint falls down however, is the constant edging up in premiums. Perth Mint can produce high quality, error free proofs for a fraction of the premium which the Royal Mint expects to be able to squeeze out of its loyal buyers.
I used to love the strike on the day sovereigns but when The Royal Mint started coming out with them fairly frequently it kinda of hurt the values of them in the secondary market. Examples include Prince Georgia's 5th Birthday and the VJ Day SOTD sovereigns among others. It's off topic but I can't believe how far down the prices have come on the 2 oz. Una and The Lion silver proof coin...
Interesring didnt kown 750 was the limit before. Moving with markets I guess. Didnt change alot before the 5 coins set sold out, but its and indicator for sure. They need to employ expereinced market strategists. Literally make a department, core values, one of the mints that can command this kind of thing on legacy and cumulative expereince reputaion is them. And rarity based on their legacy reputation would work at a shorterm loss on paper. Maybe some market analysts and a few specialists and leads.
The 100oz una and the lion bar was the same, 1000+. Mind you some of them have been ruined by Regal Stacker with his egg and burying experiments lol 😂!
They are looking at global markets where mintages and short term money can be made... Not ideal.
They need to maybe honour their history. The UK had a completely different model becasue it is so old. That reputation and that prestige will quickly be diluted if they keep copying global mintages and global business models. Its like they are not confident.
I do like that they are taking all this on board. But really they should be a prestige and rare club that they once were. The global point of sale mentality doesnt give their strategy any longterm benefits... it acutally erodes it. But workers, managers, CEOs dont stick around long enough these day to see the rewards. My grand father worked for the same high end engineering company all is life... Rarely happens now.
Its about making a quick buck then moving to the next company now unfortunately. If the mints jewelery endevour goss full steam. Maybe the prestige side of the model can keep the reputation high by using money from that. Who knows. They need business ppl and analysts, and they need to vet and pay them well to get the best of the best... difficult one indeed. But not impossible.
I think Gillicks and QEII sovs before 1985 will be more collectible than the newer sovs. Too much supply gobbled up by collectors to immediately grade or put away
Great video, royal mint just needs to concentrate on quality!
Great video and interesting discussion I personally tapped out and stopped buying after the memorial coin as with my Britannia collection, price rises and number of coins being released I gave up and bought stocks instead. I have however started to look back at the coins and have taken the plunge on the 2024 Sov but can’t say I’m that excited to buy another ‘special’ coin if it pops out the RM marketing teams heads
There was always going ro be an nflux of fancy designs with the jubilee plus change of monach but it should calm down now for quite a few years
I agree, any different designs would need some huge set of circumstances to justify minting them.
What may not be on many peoples radar is a possible fundamental revaluation of gold.
Example, if to save fiat currencies from collapse Central banks agree to revalue gold at say €/£/$50k, and if production continued with premiums at 5%, a sovereign might cost €/£/$14k.
Now from relatively recent economic era's, very few sovereigns were minted between 1932 - 1953, there are no Elizabeth 1960, 1961, 1975 and 1977 sovereigns and for a period during the late 1980 - 2000 only proof coins and in sets were struck.
So little or no production of a standard gold production is not unthinkable, but this numismatics guy speaks, in my opinion, with an attitude that future issues might or might not get an uptake.
I would say likely not available, so get whatever sovereigns you can while you can.
@@harryzero1566 we will never have a good back currency again. They can keep fiat going a lot longer than people think and the replacement is designed ready for when they can no longer revive it , it's the CBDCs.
I think you are on the money. Just got my first one, the bullion 2023 coronation in the blister card.
I love Sovereigns . They are recognized and desired the world over . Great coins to collect or hoard .
With the rms quality control problems delayed delivery and shocking prices the special sovereigns have destroyed the reputation of this flagship coin! I've been buying bu sovereigns for some time now for a stack and people I know have been selling their bu sovereigns to buy other bullion products as they're seeing sovereigns as a high premium product from a mint with zero standards.
I think the mint have spoiled the broth with more or less every release. Not that many of their previous releases were great for investment as after a number of years the price would usually drop back to release price or less.
I used to be able to pick up even the 89 versions for less than the price of a new release proof sovereign at times.
Granted there has been a large increase in the number of people buying releases to flip straight away or to have certified and then flip but I think this is probably a temporary thing and the market will drop back again. More quickly if the mint keeps releasing more and more coins at higher and higher prices, in higher numbers minted and more often.
A lot of the current releases aren’t even that great looking.
PS - not with you Numi, but all the other posters And who can name each of the specials over the last 6 years?
The most I have paid for a proof sovereign set was 12% over spot for a 1987 3-coin set. The least, spot +2%. Somebody had to lose money for those numbers to be possible.
Unless spot had risen
@@Numistacker they lost their premium over spot though. With a special year design and the coronation piece in particular, one would presume somewhat of a sustained interest in the marketplace. Same with the Memorial. We're looking at these things without the benefit of hindsight however, and market cycles can take some interesting twists and turns, bull markets don't last forever. Certainly you shouldn't sell low, but some may indeed do that, leading to bargains had by somebody at some point in the interest cycle.
@@Numistacker Spot has risen, but enough to cover inflation and the initial high premiums? Some of the earlier low costs might appear to make a sale look profitable, but when those costs are converted to 2023 currency, the profits go up in smoke.
@@dleetr Exactly.
the 2023 sovereigns are still available at the royal mint for sale think you need to take a look numi have not sold out
Why are the fields on the 5 sov not perfectly mirrored? It looks tacky imo.
Numi: Always love your work. Yes, the Mints overplayed its hand with these things. Unless you’re going to live to be 200 years old
The Mint themselves created a Beast they could not control - the Flipper Beast.
Ordinarily this Beast is limited to a percentage mark up that is OK for rhe secondary market to handle. But with Special Design's brings greed and profiteering - but those same Beast's have been put on a starvation diet of Inflation and shortage of spare cash in collectors pockets
The Mint made a mistake on this one of doing a Coronation Strike on the Day, followed up by a complete suite of Proof Sovereign's.
Mintage numbers were to optimistic and i would not be surprised to see some of rhese still being peddled by the Mint nearer Christmas.
The current Gold price per coin is around £390 so at £725 for a Proof is - errrr Dick Turpin territory.
As you aay Numi, time to settle back into a standard design and a lower premium.
£625 to £650 is fair in this market for a Proof Sovereign. Listen up the Mint - your collector's have spoken. Or should I say "have done a runner!"
the thing is everyone grading now with ngc and the 70 are so easy to get the last 3 sovereign will in time be graded in the thousands making it easy to get a 70 prices to high with grading fees and mintage figures as we go forward the sovereign will keep getting high numbers in a 70. there are not as many collectors now more dealers the game has gone in my eyes
@@susanainsley4725 It will be interesting going forward if NGC loses credibility on Modern Coin grading?? The older coins they grade are generally comparable with PCGS.