The quality of chrome and even the Era of extremely long lasting crinkle finish has been gone a long time. The chrome rusts and pits in 3 years and the sun kills the case color. Being old I have watched the build quality slip away.
Totally agree with your points about the paint. And the rebuild-ability. My gripe about HD's current CEO is the focus on only legacy big twin platforms. I'm afraid he will let the Pan America die on the vine, and then the Bronx will never get built. Dang Harley, take my money for a Bronx!!!!!!!
Totally worth it a few years ago before the M8. I bought at the right time in 2018 and got a new 48 Evo and used Dyna. I know these will last forever. The new bikes look cheap like a jap knockoff. The prices have gotten stupid. There were closeout and sales all the time before 2020. Now if you have to ask the price, you can't afford one!
They are still American. Take a close look at automobile prices. Compare 2018 to today’s prices for same make, model and trim packages. I bet HDs increase percentage is less than Ford, GM and Chrysler Fiat.
Now people can brag, "That's a nice bike, but you should've seen the one I had repossessed." I'll keep my '72 ElectraGlide I bought for 25oo bucks back in 1980, and my '97 WideGlide I bought 6yrs ago for 3 grand. Good video, as usual. 👍
I got a 2009 Super Glide Custom for 7.5. You can get plenty of cool ass (arguably the best) Harleys for under 10k all day. I could never justify 25+ on Harley.
From my POV the answer is No the price is not justified. At a minimum with Harley's pricing they should at least have a trued crank (that wont shift), Timken bearings, a solid compensator and oil pump.
I totally agree. I don't have any idea what the cost would be for a better crank setup but the other items are a must is you want to claim you make a premium motorcycle and not watch the length of your nose grow. Harley has several major problems beyond just being arrogant and having no clue who their core customer is. I would NEVER pay MSRP for any vehicle much less $7k-$8k in additional dealer profit. That alone would keep me off the market. The other is that the only model that even slightly interests me is the Breakout and the MoCo is intentionally making them unavailable to promote the impression that they are in high demand. I have yet to see one at any dealership or on the road. I've never even seen one of the older Breakouts in my travels. Replacing the chrome with black paint? Dumb idea. A bagger with a stereo and heated butt warmers? Not this kid. I am a BIKER!!!!! If I want to be warm and comfy I'd get myself a Miata. Being cold sometimes and getting rained on sometimes.... getting hit with a love bug in the face sometimes is all part of riding. I ride loud and fast. After someone racks up well over a million miles on various motorcycles over many decades as I have then come and tell me everything you know about the Biker lifestyle. When I get a new bike (new or used) I don't immediately start upgrading it. I generally wait until something needs to be replaced first. Once I need to fix or replace something I typically upgrade everything that gets pulled out to do the repair.
I'm a family man, a new Harley has been priced out of my reach for two decades. I'll be riding my 99 and 94 Softails until parts are available.....and I'm pretty well stocked up!
Paint and Chrome are top notch. Take the outer fairing off and look at the wiring - looks like a 5 year olds art day. Surprised they run more than a year or two.
I've been riding Harley's for fifty years, I would never buy a new or newer one due to the cost. Their out of their mind, they have been working for a few years to drive the cost up. They don't want people who love bikes to own their brand. They are targeting weekend warriors (doctors, lawyers, etc.) to buy the brand.
Why is it always a battle with “not true bikers?” Let the weekend warriors buy them new. You can continue to buy them used after the weekend warriors barely use them and lose it in the divorce. It’s a win-win.
Yes SIr. bought a 2015 Road king brand new 20,538. I put front and rear legend shocks on almost 2000 right there in parts. Bike rides 100% better over the shit roads here in MI. I have new pipes, intake bars, covers, LED lights. seat cams and a tuner. Doing all the work my self paid for the parts if you want to look at it that way but probably about 6 grand in addons. But looking at new prices 27000 for a what I have aint bad. 81 HP to the back wheel and 99 Flb torque, sound great, rides great, looks great.
@@rollandklontz If anything he was off by about 6000 on upgrades to make it comfortable and preform well as a big bike. Better have a good credit limit if you cant work on your own bike.
@motorcitymadman depends on what you are calling a "big" bike. The Indian is the only other bike in that class. Both the Cheiftan and the Street Glide are priced similarly, and both have similar power numbers, ride quality, fit and finish. People modify Harley's because they can not because they need to.
Good to see these questions brought forth. Short answer is no. Last CVO bike I picked up new was the '10 Softail Convertible. MSRP was 24k. I got it for 20k out the door. From my understanding HDMC sells bikes to the dealers, not the end user. The margin between dealer cost and MSRP has shrunk. Making it difficult for dealers to "wheel & deal". At the same time margin per unit has doubled in the last 2 years. Public P&L sheets don't reflect the "Corporate Burden cost". I suspect corporate payroll at HDMC is one of the driving forces in increased cost per unit, not the "Union Labor" at the plants. Considerable amount is mechanized now a days anyway, and as you stated, parts are manufactured outside of the USA. In Other Words.... HDMC is a top heavy company. In time the tree will fall or shrink, for the roots are not wide enough to support it in the "winds of change". Thanks Gixx...
The days of blaming union labor for high costs are behind us, if they were ever really "a thing" in the first place. Firstly, as you assert, there's automation. Secondly, how many parts on these motorcycles are shipped in from third world countries that pay their workers a pittance? Thirdly, the US isn't exactly the only nation of the planet that has "high" labor costs be they union plants or non union. Yes, they're far higher than places such as China and India, but they're not that much higher than in Japan or Europe. And no, I'm not a unionist!
Since the 1970's prices have gone up 10 X and wages have gone up 4X. Yesterday's dressers came equipped with gear that is now optional. Dressers are also 200 lbs heavier than in the 1970's. Nevermind all the pollution controls and various electronics waiting to have a expensive failure.
Went to the dealership yesterday to order a part for my 02 Electra Glide. I couldn't believe how many 2023 models were on the floor. I couldn't imagine squeezing one more unit on the floor. I am guessing that very few peeps are buying new
I have the same bike. Have you had any issues with cam chain tensioners? I’ve only had mine for less than a year now and haven’t looked at it yet, but I’m going to do that before I start riding this year.
Gixxer, You are correct in the fact that Harley Davidson's support network is second to none. That only hold true if your bike is within 10yrs of the current production line. I ride a 2000 Heritage Softail, I went to the local dealership for a tire and was refused service because of it's age. Keep the video's coming, they give me something to look forward to every week.
Seriously? So what's so different about the sneakers on your Heritage versus much newer ones? As a practical matter I change my own rubber. If you're not set up to do that you should pull the wheels and bring them, not the entire bike to an independent shop. Dennis Kirk has amazing prices on Harley branded Dunlops as well as Michelins (which is what I run).
@@hondo1829 With respect NO they won't. I've been told 10 years some even 7 years . They don't have mechanics per say ( some do ) but they are mainly fitters . They take a part off and put a part on . That is if they can even get the parts to begin with . How do I know? Well April 23 I get hit by a Chevy pickup 05 on my 2014 Streetglide and it takes out the left bag and rails I put on it amongst other stuff . I am now 3 and a half fucken MONTH'S and STILL waiting on PARTS . I've been told HD don't want to fix older bikes because of parts Availability or if something else gets broken they are liable for it .And yet Harley Davidson has been doing its best to do away with Mom and Pop shops and even thin out their own dealers. They want you to buy a new bike not help you to keep the one you have on the road. Thank God for J+P Cycles and the likes ( Dennis Kirk) because don't hold out for HD having a part you need . 👍🇺🇲😎
My 2005 FXSTB Night Train with 31000 km on it,Arlen Ness Big Sucker ,SE slip ons,jetted ,S&S 510c cams,extra Lapera solo seat ,cost me 7000 Canadian dollars in October 2021.Runs strong looks great and I love it.The new bikes are nice but honestly I was looking for a clean Evo hahah, couldn't find any near me.
You're spot on about the paint. Nothing comes close to Harley's Midnight Blue. Color shifts depending on the light. In shadows its dark navy and at high noon its almost purple. I've had my bike for 4 years and I'm still impressed by it and get comments where ever I ride. Was it worth the price? Probably not but I fall in love all over again whenever I look at her.
I have a sportster 72 and a 15 road glide. I bought the 72 for 9500 brand new as a left over. In 17, I picked up a 15 road glide special with 1k miles for 16.5. Every since Covid. These dealers want way too much for these new bikes. I make a good living running heavy equipment in the construction industry. These bikes aren’t affordable anymore.
Sure fit and finish is quality and at this point I can trust the Milwaukee8 after the Motor Company got a couple bugs out. I 'll stick with my stock '99 Heritage Springer motor is bulletproof.
meh. I went to my local harley dealership because my 2006 has the quick release for the pillian backrest, which i want to remove. just wanted the stock bolts so i could make it stock. was told to find a part number and they would order it, otherwise they couldn't help me. ...so i don't know about world class support.
But what sucks is even the used bikes run from 15,000-20,000,I was in Myrtle Beach a week and a half ago and pricing used bikes and it was in sane,I’m sticking with my 03 Heritage Softail Classic!
I was at one of my local dealers just this weekend and looked at the new bikes. To say I was sticker shocked would be an understatement of the greatest magnitude. First, the dealer brazenly put "additional dealer markup" of up to $7,000 over MSRP on each and every bike from Sportsters to full dressers. Everyone knows that MSRP alone has profit built into it for the dealer and the motor company. An additional markup of thousands? No thank you! They had a gorgeous CVO Ultra for ONLY $65,000!! Give me a break! No bike is worth that much.
Yeah it’s ridiculous. They’re catering to the rich urban bikers now not motorcycle enthusiasts. I just saw a 2019 street glide special yesterday at the dealer, nothing special had scratches and 75,000 km and they still wanted 25 grand for the bike !!
I went to my HD dealership today and the had the 2023 gold and black Street Glide Limited. Final price $38,500. I was like WTF!! I think they may added LED lights. I also noticed $700 paint protection. $1000 surcharge. $700 for shipping etc..
I'm glad I got one when I did. I'm priced out of new bikes now, even though I'm making 3 times more then when I bought my new HD. Used market will be how most get their first Harley, and even that is not cheap either. Even a basket case wont help, as the parts to rebuild one will still dig deep in your pockets. Anyway, it's a bad time for HD to ask for the prices they want.
I went the basket case route and you will say “that’s only 30bucks”…a hundred times if you’re not careful. Facebook and Craigslist are critical to finding good deals.
Parts - my primary derby cover flew off in the mountains outside of Big Bear. My buddy rode me 20 Miles to Redlands CA and voila I had a new cover and back on the road. Priceless.
Their prices were not to unreasonable until lately. What was the driving force behind high prices were dealer markups. Now with the moco adding a couple of grand to a bike plus the 5k dealer markup they have moved out of the realm of affordability realm.
the paint is very good in my experience, my 2002 883 has lived outside and in cities for most of its 20 years of service and paint looks five. my 2 year old ninja 1000 has only lived in a garage and isn't on the same level as the old hog, love 'em both, different like kids.
No, it is the trend. Here in California, Ducati is now over $30~35k (Multistrada with some options). BMW GSA is roughly about $26~30K with minimal options. KTM 890 Adventure R is about $19~20k with factory options (that is before tax)...don't even get me started with 1290 Duke or Adventure. Harley is on par with other manufacturer...gone are the days when motorcycle prices were reasonable and accessible. It's a premium priced habit now.
When a bike becomes old enough to be called obsolete by Harley the parts for it become cheaper and better. Instead of spending fifty Grand on a piece of crap that won't do 130... Build a twin cam
Every thing you said still applied to my USA-made honda goldwing. My 2023 Harley cost me $48000 out the door. My gold wing is 21 years old and has never needed a repair and will easly go past 300000 miles without a rebuild. . I'm still trying to get my Harley front alignment straight and I just found that my 3-month-old bike needs new fluid.
I just paid off my 2022 Limited in Gunship Grey ! At 58 it’s my LAST HD Motorcycle! I paid $36K & have $7K in Stage 2, stereo, suspension mods! I’m all set !
Buy used! Do Not buy a new bike from a dealership. Even a Rat Harley looks pretty all shined up. 20yrs ago every Boomer on the planet had to own a Harley. There are thousands of garage Queens with no miles, and a Boomer dying to get rid of it. 7yrs ago, I paid $5k for a 02' Deuce with 3k mileage that the dealership had my exact bike on the floor for $11k😂 Not every Harley is reliable. My old 2003 XL1200 blew 2nd gear, clutch basket let go, and the ignition module stranded me inside of 25k miles. A friend has 105k miles on his 2001 XL1200 without a hitch. I love my 21yr old soft tail. My pegs are further away then newer Harleys and my legs don't cramp so easily. I love it stock, just like Harley made it. At my age, I am not in a rush to go fast. Another day in the saddle is good enough for me.
Man.....where are you out of? I'm, assuming you do work on bikes right? I would LOVE to have you work on my new bike hahaha. I really like how detail oriented you are. i bet you do really thorough work and think of all the little things when changing/upgrading things.
I haven't been able to get parts for my 1998 EVO Police Edition Road King through Harley in years. Harley doesn't support it. I was able to get a cam sensor a couple of years ago. When the stator went out, I had to have that custom built. I found an indie shop that had a nice air filter replacement.
I agree. Ive wanted a Road Glide now for the last couple of years, but could not justify a car payment to have a bike. 40+K. I can only ride here in Alberta Canada for maybe five months out of the year. I ended up trading my street Bob in on a Low Rider ST fast Johnnie edition, but I basically broke the bank to get that bike as it was a bit over 30 K here in Canada. Hopefully it was worth it because I do miss my street Bob it was a lot of fun and that thing ripped with the 114 in it. Not sure if the Lowrider ST fast Johnnie is worth 10,000+ dollars more. I guess we’ll find out! I do agree, though 100% that the fit and finish to the Harleys is second to none. Also when you start looking at other bikes, like BMW’s and Ducati‘s, they are also pretty pricey as well. I enjoy your videos keep up the great footage.
If you compare with somewhat similar bikes, Indian for example, prices are close. Now, with that being said, prices are too high across the board. A base street glide for 30k, that's too much.
I had a 09 Ultra Classic. New seat, suspension front and rear, pipe, cam, chrome everything, and oil cooler. I’ve owned 3 BMW’s since and one I changed the seat the other the windshield. I loved the Harley and almost bought a new one, but started thinking about all the extra money it would take to get it to work for me.
That dealer network map is off. I live in Central America, and all the dealers have closed down except probably the one in Guatemala. Great video though! Makes me appreciate my Dyna more now.
For all those who insist Harley has gotten greedy...go to the government Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator. That Super Glide I first saw in 1976 for $3600 would be equal to $19,467.14 today. While that Super Glide wins hands down in the cool factor, todays Softail Standard and the 114 Street Bob are far better bikes performance wise for less money in todays dollar. Not to mention having things like ABS and fuel injection. Harleys never use to have chrome engines with any special finishes but have gradually added that as standard on all but the Standard models. Since I've been around, their smallest big motors have gone from 74 ci to 107 ci. From air cooled to air/oil or air/coolant. I see comparable prices on the touring bikes from all makes. Sure limited edition or CVO models are more than regular prodution models, but rarity has it's price.
As an Owner of a 05 vtx 1300 that I bought new.. the price I'm willing to pay for a bike that will run forever is $8500.00 and granted, the product support (Shirts,Boots,coffee mugs etc) from the metrics isn't even close.. they really don't need any. there are also a 2010 FJR1300 and a 08 Vstar 1300 Tourer in my stable..Considering I paid 20k for ALL 3 bikes.
Harley has lost touch with its sellers. They are shrinking the buyer base due to price of affordability, nevermind that the percentage of new riders and people in general aren't in to riding like they use to be. They are way over priced for several reasons but still manages to be better than the rest. The fact that they outsource the comments like every other manufacturer of anything these days should cut the cost down. Thwy should start to either put qaulity parts on like Custom Dynamics or make all the stuff so cheap thats its fictional on the stuf that everyone changes after the buy the bikes. That will drop the price of over all to the bikes.
Harley's paint choices are a huge negative these days. I did see they have some brown bikes now (saw several in a showroom but can't find them on the website). I do love me some brown paint.
Bought my '81 shovel in '86 for $4500. Still going strong! Just bought a 2010 RK for $8k. A magnificent ride! I doubt Ill ever buy new. If its well maintained, used is the way to go! Love the vids man....tx!
I think the writing is on the wall all the Japanese Bike companies have basically abandoned the cruiser bikes sales ,why? I think it because all the old geezers like me who like those bikes including Harley cruisers are thinning out and the kids don't want them. Most of the older Harley customers have money and HD knows it.
Yes SIr. bought a 2015 Road king brand new 20,538. I put front and rear legend shocks on almost 2000 right there in parts. Bike rides 100% better over the shit roads here in MI. I have new V&H pipes, intake bars, Tuner . New covers matching motor hole covers, LED lights. Mustang seat, Woods 222 cams and a Dyno tune. Doing all the work my self paid for the parts if you want to look at it that way but probably about 6 grand in addons. But looking at new prices 27000 for a what I have isn't bad. 81 HP to the back wheel and 99 Flb torque, sounds great, rides great, looks great.
Big twin Harley-Davidsons have been lemons right out the door ever since the twin cam was introduced. For the price Harley-Davidson charges they should not have critical parts made in cheap labor countries out of recycle garbage. Harley's youth of cheap imported parts is totally contradictory toward their american-made quality image. The last reliable real Harley motorcycle was the evolution Big twin and the Sportster. The twin-cam as well as the milwaukee-eight are a collection of government regulations on two wheels. When a milwaukee-eight engines cannot pass a leak down test at 14,000 miles or lower is ridiculous. Look at all the videos about catastrophic engine failure of Milwaukee h and twin cam Harley. Honda would never put out a motorcycle like when I bought a brand new Honda and I bought three of them and I ran them all to death ☠️. I knew they were a quality motorcycle because they were a Honda. Harley-Davidson and their associated costs have been getting ridiculous ever since the rich Urban bikers moved into riding motorcycles specifically Harleys and throwing money at the dealer's like it was running out of style. When I went to get my Sportster 20 years ago to dealer wanted me to give him $1,000 cash for the privilege of buying a Harley and I told him to get stuffed. I shake my head at the people who continue to buy brand new big twin Harley's even though they have systemic problems that everybody knows about. The new revmax motor in the pan America is just as bad. Since I cannot buy a motorcycle that cost more than my house I am someone that Harley-Davidson doesn't care about. My Harley is over 20 plus years old and so they don't want to work on it. I did get a brand new ignition switch though. Now most of the aftermarket shops will not work on it either. Everybody is a primadonna in the motorcycle industry. I no Independence shops that turn down work from me that they could have done and I would have paid them for it. Some shops have a I just want to build Orange county choppers attitude. Good for them let some go broke. For those of us who ride a Harley for everyday transportation and we need regular parts and regular maintenance light mounting tires shops who just want to do the bling thing are just simply aggravating.
I see Harleys that cost as much as a Dodge Challenger with a hemi. Makes me winch when I see a comparison. Yes it’s not a bike but union made.bigger motor,more paint better seats. Now if Harley put better stuff on the bike it wouldn’t be so bad.
I just went through upgrading from a 17 special to a 22 special. Very disappointing, many things gone and not as refined. However, resale has always been great and the biggest reason I have stayed with the brand.
Factor in inflation… If you compare cost of a Harley in the 30s and 40s, with the average salary at the time… Harleys are the same price or cheaper now and you get a lot more of a bike… They were always more of a luxury item
For all the extra money of a HD, one gets a nice paint job and an engine that can be rebuilt. Engine, no matter who the maker is, should not need a rebuild for a very long time, so it's mostly about paint. Of course, Harley has more t-shirts offered than anyone else, so there's that.
I asked three dealerships here for a nightster or nightster special....wanted $5,000 over msrp and were offering $6,000 below kbb on trade. It's that crap that makes me hope they fail. Went out and bought an 06 883 instead as I have other bikes still.
They keep digging a deeper whole for themselves!!!! What were they thinking putting the logo on a Budweiser can? Im done with Harley , and I love my Hog!!!! Indian for me going forward. Plus the dual sport new honda is 2,900 bucks brand new!!!!!! Yeah its a honda but talk about never breaking down.
No excuse at all for the style of flywheel they use,or the plain bearing,for the twin cam anyway. 4 or 5 grand later with the timken conversion and a Dark Horse/S&S crank and you’re on the right track to go from there.
110 to 117ci twin cam engine is a true muscle engine, has similar bore to 402 BBC. This engine would be great in a 07-08 night train, looks like it belongs, cruiser with muscle bike feel with decent lean angle. Has anyone ever tried to swap 110 to 117 twin cam in a 07-09 night train? Are frames from the CVO line from 07-16 that much different? Are the 16-17 Softail slim and Fatboy that different as well. Looking at the 2015 screaming eagle catalog the long block program has the 110 engine fitting into 07-13 Softail models and the 2016 catalog fitting 07-14 Softail models. The parts number are 16200108 (black) and 16200109 (granite). Neither catalog makes an exclusion to any Softail model of those years. This is confusing because you ask the dealership and they say it won't fit. Your insight would be greatly appreciated.
As far as I'm concerned Harley-Davidson died with the death of the Evo Sportster. I don't like what Harley-Davidson has turned into and I'm sick of Jochen Zeits. I'm to the point now that if my bike is ever worth enough that I break even I'll probably let it go and get another brand altogether.
I purchased a brand new 2012 Ultra Classic in November 2011. I rode it for about 2 years when the regulator went out on it! Looked it up and found that there was a recall on those regulators which is great except when the dealer ran MY vin# my bikes wasn't listed which meant I had to pay for a new one which I found on Amazon for 1/3 the price of Harley's price. Installation was EZ so no labor cost. 2 weeks ago my stator took a crap so I went to the dealer for a new one. $200 and on backorder till the end of May. I didn't even ask price for installation. Got one on e-bay for 1/2 price, bought a case of oil, filter ,gasket kit all for less than the stator. Installation was a little more complicated when a bolt broke on the inner primary but I got lucky and drilled it out. Put in 5 new bolts and it's working as it should. If you own a Harley it pays to know how to wrench! In about 3 more years you'll be able to pick up a Milwaukee 8 for a fraction of it's original price because the guys with more money than brains will unload them for the new latest and greatest creations coming out of the factory!
I'm having trouble with some of the details you mentioned. If it was brand new don't you get a warranty longer than two years? I bought a used 14 street glide with 38k miles on it and I purchased a two year warranty and I have had zero issues with it other than the exception of an aftermarket oil cooler fan improperly installed in which they fixed the very next day bc it was throwing codes. Engine wise. It's been solid going on 5 years now. I don't buy new but there is always a lemon in the bunch. I bought a used 2012 Electra glide (converted police bike) and it was a money pit. Don't buy used police bikes unless you plan on putting a whole new engine in it plus suspension. They take a beating from constant idling and hard cornering during training.
At the end of the day. I just want to be able to ride on two wheels, look good, and make me feel like I’m riding in my Cadillac truck. The Indian Pursuit Premium Package does exactly that straight out of the box (e-suspension, e-windshield, 122hp, 128fp torque, heated seats, custom OEM wheels, liquid cooled, etc….. ) all starting at 35k. And I have 3 dealerships located near me. HD can kick rocks.
Still have my ‘05 Road King and will pass it on to my grandson when I’m done. So, when you look at a generational product, the price becomes less of an issue.
Yes, they are over priced and taking advantage of their customers loyalty. Their msrps are high already, but then the dealers mark them up 20% and then they “need” thousands to get them fitted. It’s insane, practically an iq test.
Like everything with wheels they're overpriced. When the heritage Softail came out in 88? Local dealer had them at$9995.99. I remember thinking who can afford that?
If they did remove the extra little things to try to keep cost down. Then you have to go buy and install them that was once included. Chrome pieces, 12v plugs in the tour pack. Tools, 1/2 led lighting etc…
I own both a couple Hondas and a Harley Davidson. I know my VTX has a lot of miles left in it. So does my 07 Heritage. The Honda has just under 50,000 miles on it. The Heritage has just over 6,000 miles on it. The Honda is setup for touring. I also ride it to work weather permitting. The Harley is capable of long distance but lacks the hard saddlebags and trunk of the Honda. If parts dry up for the Honda I can get a low mileage Honda for less than I would spend in parts on the Heritage if I put a lot of miles on it. I plan on some serious road trips on the Honda.
It’s an interesting conundrum Harley Davidson has. They like the fact there is aftermarket support for customers. If you keep your bike “forever” would it not take away from new bike sales?
Three new humans born every second and one dies every 3 seconds. As long as the MoCo and public perception keeps them desirable there will always be customers for new and particularly used Harley's. Affordability then becomes an issue which can be overcome by that ownership desire thanks to financing with loan money. I pay cash, if I can't afford it I don't want it bad enough. 3 Harley's in the garage 😊.😊😊
Very, very interesting. I agree and I'll probably keep my 1200 Sportster forever. 2007 rubber mounts fuel injected...... Kind of top-heavy and just heavy but hey ride it until you can't.... I'm 65 years old I ever sold it I'd probably never buy another Harley......
My 12 year old dyna street bob is selling as high as 12k online when checking what dealers are charging but they'd probably offer 3k trade in....which is why I have it
Disappointed in my 22 FLSB, 2mths old 3000km replace rotor 4mths 6000km front tyre replaced lost shape 6mth 9000k replace muffler broken baffle 9mth 12000 fuel sender issues Heap of nuts & bolts rusted after 2mth Mine built in Thailand not USA Wouldnt buy a new Harley again Not a fan of the dealerships either, go the independents Love to ride it though
The MSRP is bad enough but once you get an "out the door price" it puts these bikes in an entirely different price bracket than they were ment to be in... msrp $15,999 out the door price $22,000!? Wtf!? And EVERY bike is "permanently rebuildable" if your willing and able to keep rebuilding it, the only thing harley has going is their resale values & parts avaliable but that stims from them being SO expensive to begin with.
I own both Harley and Indian..I enjoy both tremendously! The Harley I can get parts for from numerous aftermarket brands! The Indian some parts are available in aftermarket and hopefully that will grow!!!
Did u forget about the Goldwing? Would be nice to see which has the better record of longevity. Harleys are nice. I just can't pay all that $ for a slow, heavy bike.
Its all relative. Inflation, EPA regs, high salary management and that HD sticker on the tank. Labor is not the driving factor in the cost of new bikes. Until we the consumer stops paying it they will continue charging it. By the way I am still riding my 01' Heritage springer and have no interest in a new one.
...just took a peak at MSRP (Canadian $$) the Ultra limited 35,699, Goldwing 37,978, Roadmaster 38,499 and the Chalenger Pursuit 38,199!...Harley is playing fair!!...still a lot of $$ for any of these!!...great video...stay safe out there!!😎🤙👍🤙👍🇨🇦
@Peter Angles It's nice to see common sense prevailed. 1 year of no one purchasing off the showroom floor and nothing Harley branded would clear the board clowns.
Harley Davidson commands insanely inflated prices for their motorcycles for one reason: there is no shortage of imbeciles with more money (or credit) than brains out there who have a burning need to look like they are an actual Biker living the lifestyle. i.e. Posers.... It's rare to see an actual Biker in a Harley Dealership anymore and if you do, he's probably just there buying parts. Example: I am near end of life and I think the 2023 Breakout would make for a good "last motorcycle" for me. I already have four old Harleys in my garage so it's not like I never have something to ride. $20k MSRP is a tad on the high side for an M8 which has so far not been a very impressive engine. A Breakout with a late model TC for $20k would be killer. But the idiots running H-D decided that instead of selling a buttload of Breakouts for $20k it would be better to severely limit production to create the false perception that the model is in high demand. In fact, I have yet to see one on a showroom floor or in the wild. Dealers have them priced at close to $30k out the door. Needless to say, me, and anyone else with any sense is just sitting on the sidelines to see if sanity ever returns. I'm going to bet that the Breakout will once again be cut from the product line so spending $30k for one in 2023 would be an epic fail. This is what happens when a CEO is an overpaid idiot.
There is the initial cost then you have to spend a fortune to bring them up to scratch with other brands, suspension,reliability, bars, exhaust etc just to mention a few.
Are Harley-Davidson and Indian motorcycles over priced or is the cost justified?
The quality of chrome and even the Era of extremely long lasting crinkle finish has been gone a long time. The chrome rusts and pits in 3 years and the sun kills the case color. Being old I have watched the build quality slip away.
Totally agree with your points about the paint. And the rebuild-ability. My gripe about HD's current CEO is the focus on only legacy big twin platforms. I'm afraid he will let the Pan America die on the vine, and then the Bronx will never get built. Dang Harley, take my money for a Bronx!!!!!!!
Pre 2020 you can argue the price was worth it but nowadays not a chance.
Totally worth it a few years ago before the M8. I bought at the right time in 2018 and got a new 48 Evo and used Dyna. I know these will last forever. The new bikes look cheap like a jap knockoff. The prices have gotten stupid. There were closeout and sales all the time before 2020. Now if you have to ask the price, you can't afford one!
They are still American. Take a close look at automobile prices. Compare 2018 to today’s prices for same make, model and trim packages. I bet HDs increase percentage is less than Ford, GM and Chrysler Fiat.
Now people can brag, "That's a nice bike, but you should've seen the one I had repossessed."
I'll keep my '72 ElectraGlide I bought for 25oo bucks back in 1980, and my '97 WideGlide I bought 6yrs ago for 3 grand.
Good video, as usual. 👍
I have a '64 FLH bought in "69 for $1200. Also have a "57 FL bought in '77 for $2500. Maybe I spent too much! Both still on the road.
I got a 2009 Super Glide Custom for 7.5. You can get plenty of cool ass (arguably the best) Harleys for under 10k all day. I could never justify 25+ on Harley.
HAAAAAA
From my POV the answer is No the price is not justified. At a minimum with Harley's pricing they should at least have a trued crank (that wont shift), Timken bearings, a solid compensator and oil pump.
I totally agree. I don't have any idea what the cost would be for a better crank setup but the other items are a must is you want to claim you make a premium motorcycle and not watch the length of your nose grow. Harley has several major problems beyond just being arrogant and having no clue who their core customer is. I would NEVER pay MSRP for any vehicle much less $7k-$8k in additional dealer profit. That alone would keep me off the market. The other is that the only model that even slightly interests me is the Breakout and the MoCo is intentionally making them unavailable to promote the impression that they are in high demand. I have yet to see one at any dealership or on the road. I've never even seen one of the older Breakouts in my travels. Replacing the chrome with black paint? Dumb idea. A bagger with a stereo and heated butt warmers? Not this kid. I am a BIKER!!!!! If I want to be warm and comfy I'd get myself a Miata. Being cold sometimes and getting rained on sometimes.... getting hit with a love bug in the face sometimes is all part of riding. I ride loud and fast. After someone racks up well over a million miles on various motorcycles over many decades as I have then come and tell me everything you know about the Biker lifestyle. When I get a new bike (new or used) I don't immediately start upgrading it. I generally wait until something needs to be replaced first. Once I need to fix or replace something I typically upgrade everything that gets pulled out to do the repair.
‘JUST got ridiculously expensive’
You haven’t been paying attention the last 30 yrs.
I'm a family man, a new Harley has been priced out of my reach for two decades. I'll be riding my 99 and 94 Softails until parts are available.....and I'm pretty well stocked up!
Bought my 1998 HD FLHT standard brand new for $14,500 out the door. Still have it, never failed me.
1998 and now everything as ouble almost.....so pretty much the same
I'll NEVER buy a brand new Harley, my 02 road king scoots down the road juuuuuuust fine.
Paint and Chrome are top notch. Take the outer fairing off and look at the wiring - looks like a 5 year olds art day. Surprised they run more than a year or two.
I've been riding Harley's for fifty years, I would never buy a new or newer one due to the cost. Their out of their mind, they have been working for a few years to drive the cost up. They don't want people who love bikes to own their brand. They are targeting weekend warriors (doctors, lawyers, etc.) to buy the brand.
Why is it always a battle with “not true bikers?”
Let the weekend warriors buy them new. You can continue to buy them used after the weekend warriors barely use them and lose it in the divorce.
It’s a win-win.
Wild Hogs! This is the Del Fuego's highway!
I agree, the sunny sunday posers. Open the garage and the HD stands between the jetski, BBQ, golf sets, ping pong table, ...
@@TeensierPython It is not a battle... duckwalking clowns on wheels are funny.
AKA the Daytona/Sturgis Footdragger Crowd.
They will never ever be worth the price as long as they have a pressed together crank and roller bottom end.
You might as well add $4000+ to price due to needing suspension, different bars, seat, pipes, cam, tuner, etc.
Yes SIr. bought a 2015 Road king brand new 20,538. I put front and rear legend shocks on almost 2000 right there in parts. Bike rides 100% better over the shit roads here in MI. I have new pipes, intake bars, covers, LED lights. seat cams and a tuner. Doing all the work my self paid for the parts if you want to look at it that way but probably about 6 grand in addons. But looking at new prices 27000 for a what I have aint bad. 81 HP to the back wheel and 99 Flb torque, sound great, rides great, looks great.
Spoken like someone who has never owned or ridden one.
@@rollandklontz If anything he was off by about 6000 on upgrades to make it comfortable and preform well as a big bike. Better have a good credit limit if you cant work on your own bike.
@motorcitymadman depends on what you are calling a "big" bike.
The Indian is the only other bike in that class.
Both the Cheiftan and the Street Glide are priced similarly, and both have similar power numbers, ride quality, fit and finish.
People modify Harley's because they can not because they need to.
Yup, that's a fact.
Just replaced my starter on my 2004 RK with 131k. I think I did all right. Wrenching is better than yoga.
Good to see these questions brought forth. Short answer is no. Last CVO bike I picked up new was the '10 Softail Convertible. MSRP was 24k. I got it for 20k out the door. From my understanding HDMC sells bikes to the dealers, not the end user. The margin between dealer cost and MSRP has shrunk. Making it difficult for dealers to "wheel & deal". At the same time margin per unit has doubled in the last 2 years. Public P&L sheets don't reflect the "Corporate Burden cost". I suspect corporate payroll at HDMC is one of the driving forces in increased cost per unit, not the "Union Labor" at the plants. Considerable amount is mechanized now a days anyway, and as you stated, parts are manufactured outside of the USA.
In Other Words.... HDMC is a top heavy company. In time the tree will fall or shrink, for the roots are not wide enough to support it in the "winds of change". Thanks Gixx...
The days of blaming union labor for high costs are behind us, if they were ever really "a thing" in the first place. Firstly, as you assert, there's automation. Secondly, how many parts on these motorcycles are shipped in from third world countries that pay their workers a pittance?
Thirdly, the US isn't exactly the only nation of the planet that has "high" labor costs be they union plants or non union.
Yes, they're far higher than places such as China and India, but they're not that much higher than in Japan or Europe.
And no, I'm not a unionist!
You are correct
Since the 1970's prices have gone up 10 X and wages have gone up 4X. Yesterday's dressers came equipped with gear that is now optional. Dressers are also 200 lbs heavier than in the 1970's. Nevermind all the pollution controls and various electronics waiting to have a expensive failure.
UK rider, happy with my evo , cheap parts , easy to work on, no electronics
I want an EVO so bad! Closest I've gotten is my '07 Twin Cam...
@@dowhatyouwill I’ve been lucky, 96 road king, one owner, low miles
Went to the dealership yesterday to order a part for my 02 Electra Glide. I couldn't believe how many 2023 models were on the floor. I couldn't imagine squeezing one more unit on the floor. I am guessing that very few peeps are buying new
I have the same bike. Have you had any issues with cam chain tensioners? I’ve only had mine for less than a year now and haven’t looked at it yet, but I’m going to do that before I start riding this year.
Gixxer, You are correct in the fact that Harley Davidson's support network is second to none. That only hold true if your bike is within 10yrs of the current production line. I ride a 2000 Heritage Softail, I went to the local dealership for a tire and was refused service because of it's age.
Keep the video's coming, they give me something to look forward to every week.
@Greg a dealership will service all Harleys 👍
HAHAHAHAHA REFUSE A TIRE .....WOW.....I WOULD BE SURE SWITCHING TO A JAPANESSE BIKE
Seriously? So what's so different about the sneakers on your Heritage versus much newer ones? As a practical matter I change my own rubber. If you're not set up to do that you should pull the wheels and bring them, not the entire bike to an independent shop. Dennis Kirk has amazing prices on Harley branded Dunlops as well as Michelins (which is what I run).
@@hondo1829 With respect NO they won't. I've been told 10 years some even 7 years . They don't have mechanics per say ( some do ) but they are mainly fitters . They take a part off and put a part on . That is if they can even get the parts to begin with . How do I know? Well April 23 I get hit by a Chevy pickup 05 on my 2014 Streetglide and it takes out the left bag and rails I put on it amongst other stuff . I am now 3 and a half fucken MONTH'S and STILL waiting on PARTS . I've been told HD don't want to fix older bikes because of parts Availability or if something else gets broken they are liable for it .And yet Harley Davidson has been doing its best to do away with Mom and Pop shops and even thin out their own dealers. They want you to buy a new bike not help you to keep the one you have on the road. Thank God for J+P Cycles and the likes ( Dennis Kirk) because don't hold out for HD having a part you need . 👍🇺🇲😎
My 2005 FXSTB Night Train with 31000 km on it,Arlen Ness Big Sucker ,SE slip ons,jetted ,S&S 510c cams,extra Lapera solo seat ,cost me 7000 Canadian dollars in October 2021.Runs strong looks great and I love it.The new bikes are nice but honestly I was looking for a clean Evo hahah, couldn't find any near me.
You're spot on about the paint. Nothing comes close to Harley's Midnight Blue. Color shifts depending on the light. In shadows its dark navy and at high noon its almost purple. I've had my bike for 4 years and I'm still impressed by it and get comments where ever I ride. Was it worth the price? Probably not but I fall in love all over again whenever I look at her.
I have a sportster 72 and a 15 road glide. I bought the 72 for 9500 brand new as a left over. In 17, I picked up a 15 road glide special with 1k miles for 16.5. Every since Covid. These dealers want way too much for these new bikes. I make a good living running heavy equipment in the construction industry. These bikes aren’t affordable anymore.
I could argue about pricing all day but I still can't afford a brand new Harley. I'll just have to keep riding my 83 Shovel. Hallelujah
Sure fit and finish is quality and at this point I can trust the Milwaukee8 after the Motor Company got a couple bugs out. I 'll stick with my stock '99 Heritage Springer motor is bulletproof.
meh. I went to my local harley dealership because my 2006 has the quick release for the pillian backrest, which i want to remove. just wanted the stock bolts so i could make it stock. was told to find a part number and they would order it, otherwise they couldn't help me. ...so i don't know about world class support.
Buy an Evo !
Love my ‘96 Road King
EVO'S FOREVER, and ever. RIP HD Inc, 1903-1999
From what I’ve gathered, Evo is the answer to every question. Reliable touring and commuting? Evo. Crazy big-inch turbo monster? Evo!
@@thomaslemon3971 The last real HD.
Exactly. That’s why I always buy used.
But what sucks is even the used bikes run from 15,000-20,000,I was in Myrtle Beach a week and a half ago and pricing used bikes and it was in sane,I’m sticking with my 03 Heritage Softail Classic!
@@HogLife ditto! Enjoying my 04 Low Rider and it's paid for. 👍
@@HogLife Not if you buy them in a private sale. Amazing deals to be found if you’re patient and flexible.
I was at one of my local dealers just this weekend and looked at the new bikes. To say I was sticker shocked would be an understatement of the greatest magnitude. First, the dealer brazenly put "additional dealer markup" of up to $7,000 over MSRP on each and every bike from Sportsters to full dressers. Everyone knows that MSRP alone has profit built into it for the dealer and the motor company. An additional markup of thousands? No thank you! They had a gorgeous CVO Ultra for ONLY $65,000!! Give me a break! No bike is worth that much.
Yeah same here and that’s not out the door !! lol
Ducati: [has entered the chat]
Yeah it’s ridiculous. They’re catering to the rich urban bikers now not motorcycle enthusiasts. I just saw a 2019 street glide special yesterday at the dealer, nothing special had scratches and 75,000 km and they still wanted 25 grand for the bike !!
I went to my HD dealership today and the had the 2023 gold and black Street Glide Limited. Final price $38,500. I was like WTF!! I think they may added LED lights. I also noticed $700 paint protection. $1000 surcharge. $700 for shipping etc..
I'm glad I got one when I did. I'm priced out of new bikes now, even though I'm making 3 times more then when I bought my new HD. Used market will be how most get their first Harley, and even that is not cheap either. Even a basket case wont help, as the parts to rebuild one will still dig deep in your pockets. Anyway, it's a bad time for HD to ask for the prices they want.
Than,not then.
I went the basket case route and you will say “that’s only 30bucks”…a hundred times if you’re not careful. Facebook and Craigslist are critical to finding good deals.
@@Grunt49 fat fingers
@@redvision350 Very true.
Love this channel….no bs….no politics….yes the best…the only good moto paint is HD paint……yes it’s justified…
Parts - my primary derby cover flew off in the mountains outside of Big Bear. My buddy rode me 20 Miles to Redlands CA and voila I had a new cover and back on the road. Priceless.
Their prices were not to unreasonable until lately. What was the driving force behind high prices were dealer markups.
Now with the moco adding a couple of grand to a bike plus the 5k dealer markup they have moved out of the realm of affordability realm.
the paint is very good in my experience, my 2002 883 has lived outside and in cities for most of its 20 years of service and paint looks five. my 2 year old ninja 1000 has only lived in a garage and isn't on the same level as the old hog, love 'em both, different like kids.
well put 👍🏾
As long as people keeps paying the price they will keep the price high!
No, it is the trend. Here in California, Ducati is now over $30~35k (Multistrada with some options). BMW GSA is roughly about $26~30K with minimal options. KTM 890 Adventure R is about $19~20k with factory options (that is before tax)...don't even get me started with 1290 Duke or Adventure. Harley is on par with other manufacturer...gone are the days when motorcycle prices were reasonable and accessible. It's a premium priced habit now.
When a bike becomes old enough to be called obsolete by Harley the parts for it become cheaper and better. Instead of spending fifty Grand on a piece of crap that won't do 130... Build a twin cam
Every thing you said still applied to my USA-made honda goldwing. My 2023 Harley cost me $48000 out the door. My gold wing is 21 years old and has never needed a repair and will easly go past 300000 miles without a rebuild. . I'm still trying to get my Harley front alignment straight and I just found that my 3-month-old bike needs new fluid.
I just paid off my 2022 Limited in Gunship Grey ! At 58 it’s my LAST HD Motorcycle! I paid $36K & have $7K in Stage 2, stereo, suspension mods! I’m all set !
Buy used! Do Not buy a new bike from a dealership. Even a Rat Harley looks pretty all shined up. 20yrs ago every Boomer on the planet had to own a Harley. There are thousands of garage Queens with no miles, and a Boomer dying to get rid of it. 7yrs ago, I paid $5k for a 02' Deuce with 3k mileage that the dealership had my exact bike on the floor for $11k😂 Not every Harley is reliable. My old 2003 XL1200 blew 2nd gear, clutch basket let go, and the ignition module stranded me inside of 25k miles. A friend has 105k miles on his 2001 XL1200 without a hitch. I love my 21yr old soft tail. My pegs are further away then newer Harleys and my legs don't cramp so easily. I love it stock, just like Harley made it. At my age, I am not in a rush to go fast. Another day in the saddle is good enough for me.
Man.....where are you out of? I'm, assuming you do work on bikes right? I would LOVE to have you work on my new bike hahaha. I really like how detail oriented you are. i bet you do really thorough work and think of all the little things when changing/upgrading things.
I haven't been able to get parts for my 1998 EVO Police Edition Road King through Harley in years. Harley doesn't support it. I was able to get a cam sensor a couple of years ago. When the stator went out, I had to have that custom built. I found an indie shop that had a nice air filter replacement.
I agree. Ive wanted a Road Glide now for the last couple of years, but could not justify a car payment to have a bike. 40+K. I can only ride here in Alberta Canada for maybe five months out of the year. I ended up trading my street Bob in on a Low Rider ST fast Johnnie edition, but I basically broke the bank to get that bike as it was a bit over 30 K here in Canada. Hopefully it was worth it because I do miss my street Bob it was a lot of fun and that thing ripped with the 114 in it. Not sure if the Lowrider ST fast Johnnie is worth 10,000+ dollars more. I guess we’ll find out! I do agree, though 100% that the fit and finish to the Harleys is second to none. Also when you start looking at other bikes, like BMW’s and Ducati‘s, they are also pretty pricey as well. I enjoy your videos keep up the great footage.
You are the best Gixxer. Keep em coming. I'm on my 7th HD. Loved them all but this 114 M8 is amazing
If you compare with somewhat similar bikes, Indian for example, prices are close.
Now, with that being said, prices are too high across the board. A base street glide for 30k, that's too much.
I had a 09 Ultra Classic. New seat, suspension front and rear, pipe, cam, chrome everything, and oil cooler. I’ve owned 3 BMW’s since and one I changed the seat the other the windshield. I loved the Harley and almost bought a new one, but started thinking about all the extra money it would take to get it to work for me.
That dealer network map is off. I live in Central America, and all the dealers have closed down except probably the one in Guatemala. Great video though! Makes me appreciate my Dyna more now.
The real problem isn’t the MSRP, it’s the dealer markup’s.
I will argue that Triumph’s hand painted tanks are the best paintwork.
What I hate is the thousands in nonsense fees like PDI
I'm surprised my local dealer doesn't have a cover charge.
For all those who insist Harley has gotten greedy...go to the government Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator.
That Super Glide I first saw in 1976 for $3600 would be equal to $19,467.14 today. While that Super Glide wins hands down in the cool factor, todays Softail Standard and the 114 Street Bob are far better bikes performance wise for less money in todays dollar. Not to mention having things like ABS and fuel injection.
Harleys never use to have chrome engines with any special finishes but have gradually added that as standard on all but the Standard models. Since I've been around, their smallest big motors have gone from 74 ci to 107 ci. From air cooled to air/oil or air/coolant.
I see comparable prices on the touring bikes from all makes. Sure limited edition or CVO models are more than regular prodution models, but rarity has it's price.
As an Owner of a 05 vtx 1300 that I bought new.. the price I'm willing to pay for a bike that will run forever is $8500.00 and granted, the product support (Shirts,Boots,coffee mugs etc) from the metrics isn't even close.. they really don't need any. there are also a 2010 FJR1300 and a 08 Vstar 1300 Tourer in my stable..Considering I paid 20k for ALL 3 bikes.
Harley has lost touch with its sellers. They are shrinking the buyer base due to price of affordability, nevermind that the percentage of new riders and people in general aren't in to riding like they use to be.
They are way over priced for several reasons but still manages to be better than the rest. The fact that they outsource the comments like every other manufacturer of anything these days should cut the cost down. Thwy should start to either put qaulity parts on like Custom Dynamics or make all the stuff so cheap thats its fictional on the stuf that everyone changes after the buy the bikes. That will drop the price of over all to the bikes.
Yes they are. I have an 03 Duece and 2013 street glide that will be my last bikes
Harley's paint choices are a huge negative these days. I did see they have some brown bikes now (saw several in a showroom but can't find them on the website). I do love me some brown paint.
👍🏾Will just keep updating my ‘05 R/K . . . I’m good.
Bought my '81 shovel in '86 for $4500.
Still going strong!
Just bought a 2010 RK for $8k.
A magnificent ride!
I doubt Ill ever buy new.
If its well maintained, used is the way to go!
Love the vids man....tx!
$4500 bucks in ‘86 wasn’t cheap either😂. That’s like $13k in todays money. But money well spent if it’s still on the road. 👍
I think the writing is on the wall all the Japanese Bike companies have basically abandoned the cruiser bikes sales ,why? I think it because all the old geezers like me who like those bikes including Harley cruisers are thinning out and the kids don't want them. Most of the older Harley customers have money and HD knows it.
Yes SIr. bought a 2015 Road king brand new 20,538. I put front and rear legend shocks on almost 2000 right there in parts. Bike rides 100% better over the shit roads here in MI. I have new V&H pipes, intake bars, Tuner . New covers matching motor hole covers, LED lights. Mustang seat, Woods 222 cams and a Dyno tune. Doing all the work my self paid for the parts if you want to look at it that way but probably about 6 grand in addons. But looking at new prices 27000 for a what I have isn't bad. 81 HP to the back wheel and 99 Flb torque, sounds great, rides great, looks great.
Big twin Harley-Davidsons have been lemons right out the door ever since the twin cam was introduced. For the price Harley-Davidson charges they should not have critical parts made in cheap labor countries out of recycle garbage. Harley's youth of cheap imported parts is totally contradictory toward their american-made quality image. The last reliable real Harley motorcycle was the evolution Big twin and the Sportster. The twin-cam as well as the milwaukee-eight are a collection of government regulations on two wheels. When a milwaukee-eight engines cannot pass a leak down test at 14,000 miles or lower is ridiculous. Look at all the videos about catastrophic engine failure of Milwaukee h and twin cam Harley. Honda would never put out a motorcycle like when I bought a brand new Honda and I bought three of them and I ran them all to death ☠️. I knew they were a quality motorcycle because they were a Honda. Harley-Davidson and their associated costs have been getting ridiculous ever since the rich Urban bikers moved into riding motorcycles specifically Harleys and throwing money at the dealer's like it was running out of style. When I went to get my Sportster 20 years ago to dealer wanted me to give him $1,000 cash for the privilege of buying a Harley and I told him to get stuffed. I shake my head at the people who continue to buy brand new big twin Harley's even though they have systemic problems that everybody knows about. The new revmax motor in the pan America is just as bad. Since I cannot buy a motorcycle that cost more than my house I am someone that Harley-Davidson doesn't care about. My Harley is over 20 plus years old and so they don't want to work on it. I did get a brand new ignition switch though. Now most of the aftermarket shops will not work on it either. Everybody is a primadonna in the motorcycle industry. I no Independence shops that turn down work from me that they could have done and I would have paid them for it. Some shops have a I just want to build Orange county choppers attitude. Good for them let some go broke. For those of us who ride a Harley for everyday transportation and we need regular parts and regular maintenance light mounting tires shops who just want to do the bling thing are just simply aggravating.
I see Harleys that cost as much as a Dodge Challenger with a hemi. Makes me winch when I see a comparison. Yes it’s not a bike but union made.bigger motor,more paint better seats. Now if Harley put better stuff on the bike it wouldn’t be so bad.
I have a feeling this will change.The bud light effect will start playing in pretty soon.
I just went through upgrading from a 17 special to a 22 special. Very disappointing, many things gone and not as refined. However, resale has always been great and the biggest reason I have stayed with the brand.
Factor in inflation… If you compare cost of a Harley in the 30s and 40s, with the average salary at the time… Harleys are the same price or cheaper now and you get a lot more of a bike… They were always more of a luxury item
For all the extra money of a HD, one gets a nice paint job and an engine that can be rebuilt. Engine, no matter who the maker is, should not need a rebuild for a very long time, so it's mostly about paint. Of course, Harley has more t-shirts offered than anyone else, so there's that.
"Getting"... LOL. Been overpriced for as long as I can remember.
Harley loves bud light more than their customers.
I asked three dealerships here for a nightster or nightster special....wanted $5,000 over msrp and were offering $6,000 below kbb on trade. It's that crap that makes me hope they fail. Went out and bought an 06 883 instead as I have other bikes still.
BMW, Indian, Honda, Ducati, Triumph...pretty much all of them have models in the $30000 plus range here in Canada
Just bought a road glide limited 23. 33k out the door with a 9 k trade in. I love it. Last bike I’ll own as I’m 56 and work in a steel foundry.
They keep digging a deeper whole for themselves!!!! What were they thinking putting the logo on a Budweiser can? Im done with Harley , and I love my Hog!!!! Indian for me going forward. Plus the dual sport new honda is 2,900 bucks brand new!!!!!! Yeah its a honda but talk about never breaking down.
No excuse at all for the style of flywheel they use,or the plain bearing,for the twin cam anyway.
4 or 5 grand later with the timken conversion and a Dark Horse/S&S crank and you’re on the right track to go from there.
110 to 117ci twin cam engine is a true muscle engine, has similar bore to 402 BBC. This engine would be great in a 07-08 night train, looks like it belongs, cruiser with muscle bike feel with decent lean angle. Has anyone ever tried to swap 110 to 117 twin cam in a 07-09 night train? Are frames from the CVO line from 07-16 that much different? Are the 16-17 Softail slim and Fatboy that different as well. Looking at the 2015 screaming eagle catalog the long block program has the 110 engine fitting into 07-13 Softail models and the 2016 catalog fitting 07-14 Softail models. The parts number are 16200108 (black) and 16200109 (granite). Neither catalog makes an exclusion to any Softail model of those years. This is confusing because you ask the dealership and they say it won't fit. Your insight would be greatly appreciated.
As far as I'm concerned Harley-Davidson died with the death of the Evo Sportster.
I don't like what Harley-Davidson has turned into and I'm sick of Jochen Zeits.
I'm to the point now that if my bike is ever worth enough that I break even I'll probably let it go and get another brand altogether.
Zeitz must be related to his fellow German tyrant, Klaus Schwab.
I purchased a brand new 2012 Ultra Classic in November 2011. I rode it for about 2 years when the regulator went out on it! Looked it up and found that there was a recall on those regulators which is great except when the dealer ran MY vin# my bikes wasn't listed which meant I had to pay for a new one which I found on Amazon for 1/3 the price of Harley's price. Installation was EZ so no labor cost. 2 weeks ago my stator took a crap so I went to the dealer for a new one. $200 and on backorder till the end of May. I didn't even ask price for installation. Got one on e-bay for 1/2 price, bought a case of oil, filter ,gasket kit all for less than the stator. Installation was a little more complicated when a bolt broke on the inner primary but I got lucky and drilled it out. Put in 5 new bolts and it's working as it should. If you own a Harley it pays to know how to wrench! In about 3 more years you'll be able to pick up a Milwaukee 8 for a fraction of it's original price because the guys with more money than brains will unload them for the new latest and greatest creations coming out of the factory!
Yes, China always has imitation parts. You save your wallet and rock that shit, Dawg!!
I'm having trouble with some of the details you mentioned. If it was brand new don't you get a warranty longer than two years? I bought a used 14 street glide with 38k miles on it and I purchased a two year warranty and I have had zero issues with it other than the exception of an aftermarket oil cooler fan improperly installed in which they fixed the very next day bc it was throwing codes. Engine wise. It's been solid going on 5 years now.
I don't buy new but there is always a lemon in the bunch. I bought a used 2012 Electra glide (converted police bike) and it was a money pit. Don't buy used police bikes unless you plan on putting a whole new engine in it plus suspension. They take a beating from constant idling and hard cornering during training.
Not sure about serviceability of all the electronics on new bikes , not just Harley. can you go get a replacement ECM for say first gen EFI twin cams?
At the end of the day. I just want to be able to ride on two wheels, look good, and make me feel like I’m riding in my Cadillac truck. The Indian Pursuit Premium Package does exactly that straight out of the box (e-suspension, e-windshield, 122hp, 128fp torque, heated seats, custom OEM wheels, liquid cooled, etc….. ) all starting at 35k. And I have 3 dealerships located near me. HD can kick rocks.
“Reliable” and “rebuildable” are two very different things.
Still have my ‘05 Road King and will pass it on to my grandson when I’m done. So, when you look at a generational product, the price becomes less of an issue.
Yes, they are over priced and taking advantage of their customers loyalty. Their msrps are high already, but then the dealers mark them up 20% and then they “need” thousands to get them fitted. It’s insane, practically an iq test.
Like everything with wheels they're overpriced. When the heritage Softail came out in 88? Local dealer had them at$9995.99. I remember thinking who can afford that?
If they did remove the extra little things to try to keep cost down. Then you have to go buy and install them that was once included. Chrome pieces, 12v plugs in the tour pack. Tools, 1/2 led lighting etc…
I own both a couple Hondas and a Harley Davidson. I know my VTX has a lot of miles left in it. So does my 07 Heritage. The Honda has just under 50,000 miles on it. The Heritage has just over 6,000 miles on it. The Honda is setup for touring. I also ride it to work weather permitting. The Harley is capable of long distance but lacks the hard saddlebags and trunk of the Honda. If parts dry up for the Honda I can get a low mileage Honda for less than I would spend in parts on the Heritage if I put a lot of miles on it. I plan on some serious road trips on the Honda.
It’s an interesting conundrum Harley Davidson has. They like the fact there is aftermarket support for customers. If you keep your bike “forever” would it not take away from new bike sales?
Three new humans born every second and one dies every 3 seconds. As long as the MoCo and public perception keeps them desirable there will always be customers for new and particularly used Harley's. Affordability then becomes an issue which can be overcome by that ownership desire thanks to financing with loan money. I pay cash, if I can't afford it I don't want it bad enough. 3 Harley's in the garage 😊.😊😊
I wonder how many they’ll sell in the next few years after teaming up with Budweiser?
Very, very interesting. I agree and I'll probably keep my 1200 Sportster forever. 2007 rubber mounts fuel injected...... Kind of top-heavy and just heavy but hey ride it until you can't.... I'm 65 years old I ever sold it I'd probably never buy another Harley......
A tech at my dealer has and evo with a million miles on it. He said it's not that uncommon.
Now that’s impressive!!!!! Wow!!!
What year was it built 1903?
My 12 year old dyna street bob is selling as high as 12k online when checking what dealers are charging but they'd probably offer 3k trade in....which is why I have it
Disappointed in my 22 FLSB,
2mths old 3000km replace rotor
4mths 6000km front tyre replaced lost shape
6mth 9000k replace muffler broken baffle
9mth 12000 fuel sender issues
Heap of nuts & bolts rusted after 2mth
Mine built in Thailand not USA
Wouldnt buy a new Harley again
Not a fan of the dealerships either, go the independents
Love to ride it though
You should see how much they cost in Australia mate. Very expensive here.
Just corporate greed ! Period !! 🤮
Greedflation.
The MSRP is bad enough but once you get an "out the door price" it puts these bikes in an entirely different price bracket than they were ment to be in... msrp $15,999 out the door price $22,000!? Wtf!? And EVERY bike is "permanently rebuildable" if your willing and able to keep rebuilding it, the only thing harley has going is their resale values & parts avaliable but that stims from them being SO expensive to begin with.
Great video right now I am looking for a cam sensor for a 2000 FatBoy . It’s on back order until October. Have a great weekend 👍👍👍👊👊👊
I own both Harley and Indian..I enjoy both tremendously! The Harley I can get parts for from numerous aftermarket brands! The Indian some parts are available in aftermarket and hopefully that will grow!!!
Did u forget about the Goldwing? Would be nice to see which has the better record of longevity. Harleys are nice. I just can't pay all that $ for a slow, heavy bike.
Its all relative. Inflation, EPA regs, high salary management and that HD sticker on the tank. Labor is not the driving factor in the cost of new bikes. Until we the consumer stops paying it they will continue charging it. By the way I am still riding my 01' Heritage springer and have no interest in a new one.
...just took a peak at MSRP (Canadian $$) the Ultra limited 35,699, Goldwing 37,978, Roadmaster 38,499 and the Chalenger Pursuit 38,199!...Harley is playing fair!!...still a lot of $$ for any of these!!...great video...stay safe out there!!😎🤙👍🤙👍🇨🇦
As long as men carry their EGO and wallet into a dealership new bikes get sold. The rest of us know better.
@Peter Angles It's nice to see common sense prevailed. 1 year of no one purchasing off the showroom floor and nothing Harley branded would clear the board clowns.
@Peter Angles That's the worst case I have heard of. Damn. Thanks for sharing that nightmare.
New bikes must be sold in order for you to get it used 5 years later, someone must do the dirty job.
@@duosable I have believed that for the past 40 years. Well said, Sir!!
Harley Davidson commands insanely inflated prices for their motorcycles for one reason: there is no shortage of imbeciles with more money (or credit) than brains out there who have a burning need to look like they are an actual Biker living the lifestyle. i.e. Posers.... It's rare to see an actual Biker in a Harley Dealership anymore and if you do, he's probably just there buying parts. Example: I am near end of life and I think the 2023 Breakout would make for a good "last motorcycle" for me. I already have four old Harleys in my garage so it's not like I never have something to ride. $20k MSRP is a tad on the high side for an M8 which has so far not been a very impressive engine. A Breakout with a late model TC for $20k would be killer. But the idiots running H-D decided that instead of selling a buttload of Breakouts for $20k it would be better to severely limit production to create the false perception that the model is in high demand. In fact, I have yet to see one on a showroom floor or in the wild. Dealers have them priced at close to $30k out the door. Needless to say, me, and anyone else with any sense is just sitting on the sidelines to see if sanity ever returns. I'm going to bet that the Breakout will once again be cut from the product line so spending $30k for one in 2023 would be an epic fail. This is what happens when a CEO is an overpaid idiot.
i will keep my 05ultra running. they way its fixed now, should run as long as any evo.
If Buell comes out in 2025 with the super cruiser that will be a game changer - working man’s bike - power cruiser- I’m keeping my 92 fxr
Amen brother! I’ll beep my 91 FXR Convertible forever as well!
There is the initial cost then you have to spend a fortune to bring them up to scratch with other brands, suspension,reliability, bars, exhaust etc just to mention a few.