Heaven, Hell, and the Afterlife: A Conversation with Randy Alcorn
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Did the doctrine of Hell evolve over time? Did Jesus teach annihilation? In this interview, I get to talk with author Randy Alcorn about the latest book from Bart Ehrman: Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife. Join us and ask live questions!
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Just saw your discussion style on a post by Paulogia, and though I am an atheist, I am also now a subscriber to your channel. I appreciate intellectual honesty and an attempt at real dialogue in order to get closer to an understanding of either the truth, or simply an understanding of opposing viewpoints. I hope more scholars and debaters (skeptic and Christian alike) begin to take a similar approach. Looking forward to more from your channel.
Thanks Adam. I hope you enjoy what we have coming up.
Bro, I literally came to this video to comment this exact thing. I appreciate that I’m not the only one who feels this way.
Thank you Sean for your commitment to honesty and consistency. I wish I could say the same about more apologists. Fair winds to the both of you:)
Chase Harrison that’s very kind Chase. I fall short often, but I do aim for honesty and appreciate that you feel it’s exemplified.
@@SeanMcDowell Why not make
a Collab with some Big People like
'Genetically Modified Sceptic' or 'Friendly Atheist'?
People known to be warm and logical and never arrogant.
@@slevinchannel7589 We’re talking about it!
Praying for Nancy and the Alcorn Family regarding her complete healing related to her impending surgery. God's got you.
I've been to heaven and hell...i died of a failed liver when I was 17( I was born in 1976)... i was shown heaven and hell....and yes i heard the voice of God....he sent me back....i can't wait to die it's so much better than this place....I think I got something from it tho I think we're here to experience mortality like Jesus and trust in Jesus and the holy spirit....and have a nice day....
I have the wonderful memory of every new year’s evening my father reading Revelations 21 to his 6 small daughters....every year ! Then he would pray. Then we would hear the noise of celebration outside at the end of pappa’s prayer . And after this we would get up and embrace each other with a “ Happy New Year ! “ . I would love to see other fathers do this . 😍
That's a cool idea!
Interesting discussion. Randy asserts we cry out for justice, I cry out for mercy. In John, the crowd confronting the woman caught in adultery, wanted to stone her in according to OT law. On the hand, Jesus did not condemn her, but showed mercy. His mercy is the reason I became a Christian, and the reason I try not to condemn.
I am praying for you and your wife Nancy. God bless you both,
This was a fantastic conversation. I am thrilled we have biblically studied people who present truth in a kindly mannered way. Thank u thank u thank u 🇨🇦❤️
Praying for healing in Nancy’s body and peace in Randy and Nancy’s hearts
I will pray for Nancy and Randy for complete healing and God being glorified with her recovery, God Bless!
Just saw this today. Great dialogue! Thanks for the way Randy and Sean handled Bart Ehrman's arguments. And I hope that Randy's wife, Nancy, is now in full recovery.
I read Randy’s book heaven many years ago and it totally changed my view of heaven! I now give his book away to people because it’s one of my favorites!
Randy Alcorn!!
What a mighty man of God. His books "We Shall See God" and "Heaven" and many more have changed me.
Powerful tools where you'll see The Holy Spirit in action.
May The Lord heal and touch and comfort Nancy.
One day I'll get some one on one time with Randy Alcorn, Charles Spurgeon, Paul The Apostle and John the apostle whom Jesus loved! And many more.
What a DAY THAT WILL BE.
can hardly wait!
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
Report that scammer asking for funds for the "orphanage" in Nigeria everytime you see it.
It's well past the time Nancy had her surgery but am praying anyway for her and the family, trusting that the LORD is working His marvelous grace in their lives. Sean, I so appreciate your gift of encapsulating what your guests say and making sure we understand it before moving on.
Praying for successful surgery for Nancy tomorrow, for skill and knowledge for the medical team.🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏💕💕
Love how "gracious" this conversation was.
Wonderful investigative analysis in the style of great apologetics. All believers need training in this. Thank you.
Folks, we need to fast and ask God for his Armor and also for THE GIFTS OF HEALINGS🙏
Great show, great guests. One of my favorite shows on utube. Thanks to Sean and Randy, God bless. Will of coarse say a prayer, though a bit after th the fact.
Just an amazing interview! Randy and Sean are great!
This Channel here is 'friendly and warm', it seems, but so is 'Genetically Modified Sceptic', right?
Loved the interview. Thank you. I just checked and saw that Nanci Alcorn is still not cancer free. Let's pray for her 🙏💖
This was very interesting. Praying for Nancy!
Praying for your wife Nanci Alcorn that her further treatments will give her a better quality of life.
Very interesting topic. Maybe I should come back, after reading Ehrman's book.
Sean's buddy Preston Sprinkle is has also advocated for the CI viewpoint and makes a better case than any I've heard for ECT.
Praying for Nancy
Interesting coming across this interview with Sean and Randy. Sean mentioned Randy's book on heaven, at the moment I'm reading again ( after almost 30 yrs) what I consider one of the definitive books on hell 'What ever happened to Hell?' by John Blanchard.
I would love to see Randy Alcorn write a companion book to "heaven" called "hell" that explores the topic of hell.
This Channel here is 'friendly and warm', it seems,
but so is 'Genetically Modified Sceptic', right?
I'm really struggling with my faith... I can't help but believe in reincarnation as it makes more sense to me as much as it terrifies me. Wanting to know Jesus but difficult to accept the Christian Paradigm of faith. Christ Jesus, please help me with my unbelief...
David Pawson had written a book a while back titled When Jesus Returns. It's a wonderful read and I hope you read it. He's with the Lord now. We was never really popular here in America, but he was quite known in Britain. I hope all will get their hands on this book. I'm looking forward to reading Randy's book as well.
Prayers for your family
*_Jesus, what is the actual, REAL reason people don't surrender to you? JESUS SPEAKS: "And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed. But the one who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds will be revealed as having been performed in God.” -John 3:19-21_* 🚧🔥 Thank You, Jesus. 🙌
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
Once again Sean, great conversation!
Praying for a successful surgery for Nanci
Randy's wife Nanci entered Jesus' presence in March of 2022.
I have GREAT respect for Randy Alcorn, and think that he is an excellent exegete. But I think he got this one wrong on annihilation, following traditional interpretation rather than what Scripture really teaches. The definitive study on this (IMHO) is a book by Edward Fudge called "The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment." In there, Fudge deals with ALL of Randy's texts that he uses to defend the traditional view. And I've never heard a traditionalist adequately answer Fudge's interpretations.
One of the big issues that Fudge addresses, is whether or not people even have immortal souls, rather than being granted immortality when they become believers (1 Tim. 6:16). This is more appropriately called "conditional immortality" rather than annihilationism. Fudge shows through historical study that the idea of the immortality of the soul is actually a Greek idea that early church fathers imported into Christianity. Those who hold to conditional immortality DO believe that there will be a period of conscious torment in the resurrected body for unbelievers. But this hell is not eternal; it will eventually end in annihilation.
Fudge deals with the Greek adjective for "eternal" (“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” Matt. 25:46), Lazarus and the rich man, and EVERY passage in Scripture that addresses final punishment. And I've never heard good traditionalist responses to his exegesis, as to why he is incorrect. Sadly, some just resort to ad hominin attacks.
Randy Alcorn, Jesus did NOT talk about Hell. Learn about the mistranslation of HELL.
Randy is underrated
I was watching a video by Paulogia and you seemed to be an amazingly honest apologist... so here I am to take a look at what you have to present. Keep focusing on being intellectually honest and looking at those claims and evidence. :-)
@Timeshark Funny I found you here, even though I’ve no idea who you are. You actually spurred the search that led me out of Christianity funnily enough. I think I was reading one of your discussions on either the Matt Dillahunty v. Cliffe Knechtle debate (required for an apologetics class I was attending at my evangelical church-school) or maybe a vid about the euthyphro dilemma, to be honest I can’t remember. That was last September. I owe you a debt of gratitude for the amazing difference your discussion with a theist in some random comment section on RUclips did. It was the catalyst that ended up leading me out of a long bout of depression (oddly enough it seems to be the opposite when someone realizes that their existence is essentially meaningless, but it was rather liberating for me) and onto discover a passion for philosophy. Fair winds buddy, and thanks again.
@@chaseharrison5469 Your post just made my year, thought you should know
Timeshark Im glad, seeing how your comments essentially made the end of last year and the entirety of this year so far for me. Which manifests in all of the new cool things I’m learning since adopting a skeptical perspective. :)
2 Tim.1:10; says that “the Lord Jesus abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”
Will pray for her
Why is the Trinity an essential doctrine given that it wasn't established until a century or more after Jesus died?
I think it's because the rejection would mean either Jesus isn't divine (obviously a huge problem) or the explanation would most likely go into polytheism territory (also not good). I'm curious as to what specifics he meant as well. A bit of historical background about the Nicean council (where the doctrine of the Trinity was decided upon) is that the argument wasn't IF Jesus was divine, but HOW he was divine. If somebody wanted to attack the divinity nowadays, the trinity is definitely a good area to target. This is the Greco-Roman world, where polytheism is everywhere, and so before someone converts to Christianity they're going to have a polytheism mindset. It teaches multiple ways of humans being divine. There were a lot of different opinions on it, and it was causing drama, so the council was called to come to a definitive conclusion on the matter. The participants weren't local but came from multiple areas to get an idea of all the different opinions as well.
It all comes down to whether one believes scripture to be God's supernatural inerrant word or the possibly genuine but all-too-human record of people's experiences of God. These days I have gravitated towards the latter...
There are a lot of conceited things stated in this interview, especially in the beginning. The one that stood out for me that is common to all religions is that everyone grapples with the big questions like where did we come from, what happens to us when we die, and as posited here, is there a hell. No. If all humans have something in common then biologists have a term for it: instinct. There is no big question instinct. Steven Pinker wrote a book called the Language Instinct. In that book he reviews the Wharf-Sappier hypothesis that in fact certain details of language are instinct. Wharf-Sappeir proposed that Eskimos have 50 words for snow because it is hard-wired, aka instinct. Well, guess what. Turns out the Wharf-Sappier hypothesis is bunk. We do have a language instinct, we do not have a "big question" or other concrete though instinct. I highly recommend reading Pinker's book. There is no instinct to grapple with the big questions or consider hell. None. There is, however, lots of evidence of these things being cultural and indoctrinated. If you are so conceited as to think the big questions are common to all humans and work at the instinct level then I suggest the first step is to prove Wharf-Sappier is correct that particular concrete thought is instinct beyond the eating, and bodily function thoughts made manifest by our physical bodies.
Praying for the best.
Love me some Randy Alcorn!
Yes, 50:50 great point
If you’re seeking knowledge (whether true or false), go to school.......if you’re seeking wisdom, learn from Yahweh and His inspired Word, the Bible♥️🙏
I’m 20 minutes in, and so far the only thing that’s been discussed is Bart Erhmans opinion.
Even though God is behind creation, that doesn't mean that God is behind everything that happens within creation.
Since certain creations, such as ourselves, have been given free will and are capable of being creators in our own right; including creating suffering for ourselves and others.
This particular misunderstanding, that God is causing our suffering and perhaps punishing us, is one of the most dangerous misunderstanding promoted by religious teachers; for how can we become free from suffering if we don't understand what's causing it?
As long as we believe that lie, we will blame God or others, or our circumstances for our suffering and not see that we are the ones responsible for our suffering.
Our mistaken thinking, and the negative emotions and negative actions that flow from our thoughts causes our suffering.
Depending on what we choose to believe, and how we choose to respond to life; we create more Love in the world or the opposite.
When we choose to express the opposite of Love or cause harm, it is not God that is at fault. God gifted us with the freedom to choose and to create, and we eventually learn from our choices to be better creators; to create happiness instead of suffering, and it is suffering that teaches us this; suffering points us away from what is anti-life, anti-Love.
Our own personal suffering is the so-called "punishment" we receive for making choices that are not aligned with Love; that is the only "punishment", if we will, meted out by God.
We are designed to suffer whenever we miss the mark, which is the meaning of sin; the mark, the target or goal, is Love. We suffer whenever we fall out of alignment with Love.
Suffering and joy are part of the guidance system we've been given; the homing device, which when followed, will bring us back home to Love.
Suffering tells us that we are believing a lie or taking a wrong direction; while joy tells us the opposite.
If we don't want to suffer, then we must stop believing or doing what causes us and others suffering; and start believing and doing what brings peace, Love and joy.
Substantive Discussion begins at 25:50
nice content
Jude 7 gives us the true representation of eternal punishment. As we read there, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are still suffering the vengeance of everlasting fire even to this day.
This Channel here is 'friendly and warm', it seems,
but so is 'Genetically Modified Sceptic', right?
I disagree with the statement that only a few references to God as a plurality appear in the Hebrew Bible. By the time of Jesus, most if not all Jews accepted that God was a plurality based on their reading of the scriptures. Alan Seagal wrote about this, for example, in his book "Two Powers in Heaven." This concept is much more prevalent than just a few vague references (I'm not referring to the "Let us" language in Genesis in the creation of humanity, by the way).
JOHN 3: 1- 21 KJV
YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN IN SPIRIT AND BELIEVE IN GOD JESUS FOREVER LASTING LIFE AND YOU WILL BE SAVED THOSE WHO DONT ARE ALREADY CONDEMED
Does it say this in the Bible?
Sinful people are brought back after death for God's vindication for his judgement of them.
Interesting video, always good to see responses to Ehrman’s work. It gives a better idea of where the agreement is, and the points of contention. It may (or may not) also be interesting to see what the lives of scholars are like that are interviewed. Do they read the bible all day (or how many hours), or scholarly articles. How do they go about choosing what to read, and what are the best resources they use. Are they currently researching (or publishing) into any specific areas, and how do they go about formulating their research. Which other scholars are currently publishing on heaven and hell or have recommended resources, what other reviews have criticised points or holes in Ehrman’s book. How influential are Ehrman’s books - would the likes of Lane Craig and James White be reading them currently. All things which are food for thought
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
Bart Ehrman has been very important to my thoughts on religion for some years now. I have not yet read this his latest book on heaven and hell. I have, however seen him interviewed about it, and must admit to thinking this his weakest offering to date. He seems to simply ignore the many passages in the gospels in which Jesus seems to be referring to hell. I mean, where else are the fires not quenched (Mk 9:43), the worm does not die (Mk 9:48), and there is wailing and gnashing of teeth (Mt 13:42)? Nevertheless, I will reserve full judgement until I have read the book.
Read the Old Testament context of those passages in Isaiah: they are talking about corpses not living people. Wailing and gnashing of teeth is at the moment of judgment not for eternity.
Beware about continuing revelation- that’s what Mormonism claims and hence their differing doctrines
Would love to hear how Randys wife Nancy is doing?🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻💕
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
Not the Devil's Spawn, but maybe the Devil's Pawn!
Chuck Missler frequently said that we are all the Prizes & Pawns in cosmic chess match between our Holy God and an His Enemy that makes Darth Vader look like a boyscout.
I sense that there is something terrible wrong how we think about hell. But unfortunately I can not tell what it is. We serve a God who commands us to love our enemies but we also really believe that he is torturing his enemies in all eternity? My brain is simply not able to bring these two things in any logical order. I am not denying hell although I would prefer annihilation after judgement. Thinking that God is somehow subject to the concept of justice is not working for me because he is supreme to everything. And if Jesus did load ALL sins of the world upon himself as John the Baptist declared and was nailed with them on that cross than there is no more reason for God to punish anyone. Than there does only remain a kind of self judgement for those who do not believe. I understand this. So in this regard hell would be a prison of self deception where you can not escape if you do not except the truth about Jesus Christ.
Yay…my dogs will be in Heaven!!!!!!!!
Hi Sean, long time listener here and ive just been wondering...do you lean towards annihilantion or eternal torment?
On the “near death” issue…How do you explain John 1:18 that says no man has seen God at any time.
People have seen manifestations of God through burning bushes and angels, but no one can see Him I’m essence and live, (Exodus 33:20)
Hebrews 12:29 describes Him as a “Consuming Fire”
I’m skeptical of any talk of seeing God or heaven. The scriptures don’t support it.
Also, check out Luke 16:27-31 the rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his family of hell, to which Abraham replied “they have Moses and the Prophets”
The speaker is an amazing mental contortionist.
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
This is to all these so called athiest.the Lord is going to hold every man accountable simply because of creation.so I hope and pray that you find the Lord Jesus Christ before you leave this world.
You probably could have asked Bart Ehrman to come into your show, but it's telling that you instead chose to talk to someone else *about* Bart Ehrman.
Lazarus parable or true story- it tells us we will be judged on how we treat the poor. We are not saved by our religion,wealth, or success. Also that justice will be done.
We are saved ONLY by believing on Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross by His death for the sins of the world and rising again on the third day.
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
It's a parable...
@@Mrm1985100 And what is Jesus telling us by this parable?
Hebrews 11:6, "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Faith is the foundation for love and good works.
This is very sad about this man you are speaking about . It says in the gospel that if we know the word of GOD AND REJECT IT SYILL ..THAT IS SOMEHOW WORSE THAN MOST . PRAY FOR THAT PERSON. GOD BLESS. 😢🤨🙏
JESUS SPOKE MORE ABOUT HELL THAN HEAVEN AND GOD JESUS CAN NOT LIE
Hell
The subject of Hell is known to almost all people worldwide even to the non-Christians. Also there are different belief and teachings in regards to this subject. But the main purpose of this sharing is, what does the Bible says in regards to this subject. Although all Christians hold the Bible as their sole teacher of truth, yet most believers have different understanding and belief as to what the Bible teaches. Most people believed that there is now existing burning fire in the middle of the earth where sinners are being tortured and burned forever.
So the simple question to be asked is.
Q. Does the Bible support the belief that there is now an existing burning eternal fire called hell?
A. Genesis 1:31.; And God saw every thing that He made, and behold, it was very good.
Note: As Christians we all knew and believed that God alone is the creator of all that is in heaven and earth. And the text said that every thing that God created was very good. In order to find out what are included in that every thing was very good. (Pls read Genesis 1: 3-26) For sure you won’t read the word hell in that every thing was good.
Q. If at any case, there is now an existing burning eternal fire called hell, who created it and when?
A. Of course no one could find an answer from the Bible, because we already read, that God alone is the creator, and every thing that He made was very good. (Genesis 1:31) quoted.
Q. If there is no existing hell yet, will there be future eternal fire called hell, and to whom is it prepared for?
A. Matthew 25:41; Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand. Depart from me ye cursed, unto everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Note: It is clear in the text that the everlasting fire is still future and is prepared for the devil and his angels including the cursed or unsaved.
Q. According to the Bible, when and where will this eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels takes place?
A. Revelation 20:7-10; And when the thousand years are expired, Satan will be loosed out of his prison. And shall go out to deceived the nations, which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city, and fire came down fromGod out of heaven and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall e tormented day and night forever and ever.
Note: The above texts are clear, that after the thousand years are expired, (Satan which was cast out to this earth, out of heaven together with his angels according to Revelation 12:7-9) is on this earth since that time, and will be here on earth until the thousand years are expired. And it is here on this earth, while deceiving the whole world when fire will come down from God out of heaven and devoured them. And this fire is described as “lake of fire and brimstone. In other words this whole earth will become the hell of the Bible. 2 Peter 3:7, and Revelation 20:7-9.
Q. After this earth is cleansed by the lake of fire and brimstone, with Satan and his angels in it, together with all wicked, (Malachi 4:1,3), what event will take place?
A. 1) 2 Peter 3:13; Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2) Revelation 21:1; And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the.first earth are passed away, and there was no more sea.
Heaven for all? No. Death without God's Judgment? No. Sinners go to Hell forever & ever? Hope NOT! Sinners in Hell, Judgment then thrown in the lake of fire to die eventually depending on how bad your sin was? Hope so, because I think it is pretty close to what the Bible says & because GOD has to be more moral than us.
My responses:
Your citation of Daniel 12:2 does not confirm that Hell exists either, Since Daniel 12:2 talks about the righteous going to eternal life and the wicked to everlasting contempt. Since the phrases everlasting life and contempt are polar opposites of what the righteous will receive and the wicked will receive, what do you think the opposite of eternal life is?, what do you think the opposite of life is?. It's not torment, it's DEATH, when it says "Everlasting Contempt" it just refers to everlasting nonexistence, because even if you were suffering in hell, you still exist. But being completely destroyed makes you nonexistent, nobody remembers you, and its punishment because you don't exist anymore.
And Job 19 doesn't confirm the soul exists either, by the fact, that the verse specifically said "Yet in my flesh shall I see god" that does not confirm the existence of a soul either. It just states that he is still alive and sees God and supports a bodily resurrection because obviously worms also exist on Earth and is eating your body. or that he saw his flesh as an image of God since according to the book of Genesis, all man is created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26).
Secondly, the reason why critical scholars reject the Gospel of Luke its because alot of the teachings of Luke are not found among the original works, and were written a long time after both the gospels of Matthew and Mark, which is our earliest gospels. And secondly, because of the last line that the parable ends of "If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced, even if someone rises from the dead" (Luke 16:31). That line right there presupposes, that if they will not listen to Moses or the prophets, what makes you think they will believe someone who rises from the dead?". In other words, it presupposes a post-resurrection era and Jesus hasn't died yet in the Gospel of Luke. According to Bart quoting 2 scholarly books that agree with that statement.
Thirdly, That argument against destruction is ridiculous. There is no evidence that supports the idea of being destroyed and brought back to a conscious state and comparing destruction of the old earth to the coming of the new earth doesn't prove it either, The Earth and humans are 2 separate things. In fact the book of revelations makes it clear that it is called "The Second Death". And secondly, the reason why those people who have died will be bought back to life including those who have died before, was to make them pay for their sins that they got away when they were alive, you can't punish somebody who's dead, what if the person caused harm and suffering to others when they were alive, and they got away with it, obviously you would want them to pay, so that's why they will be resurrected, in order to give judgement to people who got away with their crimes by hiding away from justice in death, and to give a fair judgement on all of humans who has ever lived.
Fourth, There is no evidence that everybody else will be tormented alongside the Beast, False Prophet and the Devil. In fact in a couple verses later it stated that everybody else who was judged will be thrown into the lake of fire, along with death and hell and this is the Second Death (Revelations 20:14-15). The book of revelations specifically say its only the devil, the false prophet and the beast that will be tormented for eternity but nothing about everybody else tormented alongside them for eternity.
And if you think that Jesus and Paul had different theologies, just know that Jesus himself stated that "Think not that I have come to abolish the law, or the prophets: for I have not come to destroy, but fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Til Heaven and Earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled" (Matthew 5:17-18). Now contrast this with the Book of Galatians?.
You can keep claiming that you get your message from God, just know that it's not God who's writing the bible, it's man who claims to speak for God based on their imagination, visions and voices in their head that nobody else heard. As Thomas Paine once said "It's only revelation to the first person, it's hearsay to everybody else". No one really knows if its God or just a figment of imagination.
Many do feel as though heaven will be boring...no sex. Harp playing & glorifying God...MANY think that's ALL there is after.
Wasn't it another part of the reason He came was to reveal more of the truth? Weren't we told in the very beginning that Enoch was taken up and was no more? DIdn't God take him somewhere because he was pleasing to Him? Isn't the premise of our faith based on believing on what remains 'hoped for?" Didn't the patriarchs All believe they will someday rise up and inherit the promises they never saw on this side of the grave? Didn't Abraham believe that God could resurrect his son Isaac when he intended to sacrifice him in Genesis 22, yet told his men that "they" would be back? I see resurrection as a clear understanding from God at least as far back as Job and Abraham. (And I'm sure Adam and Eve hoped that Abel might be taken where God took Enoch,)
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
😀👍🙌
sounds like running from reality, not wanting to face that fear so he lies to himself saying it isnt real
57:00 the EXACT MOMENT HE SAYS HE DOESN'T THINK BART IS THE DEVIL'S SPAWN THE AUDIO ENDED FOR THE LAST 6 MINUTES. EVIL IS REAL!!!!!!!!!
Write let me tell you about this heaven and h*** Heaven is a place of thought You create your own h*** God do not send you to h*** You send yourself there
Ummmm very clever guy this Mr Ehrman, and yet he falls for the devils oldest trick, "I don't exist" there is no hell and no heaven....you can't prove anything. The Cross is not just a sign of God's love but also of how much God hates sin.
I love Sean, but this Randy Alcorn built enough straw men I worry this episode might be a fire hazard. No Isaiah was not written after the life of Jesus, the life of Jesus was written to match Isaiah-just one example of many. Disingenuously representing the other position does not make your case stronger my friend.
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
Hey Josh, where in scripture does it say we can not repent after death? I’m thinking of those who reject God because they have misconceptions, often due to bad experiences with Christians. I’m thinking of how Paul changed when confronted with the real Jesus. What if all our false thinking is burned away when we see him after death?
26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:26-28 KJV
There are people who just don't want to believe in God, don't want God to be true. Richard Dawkins is one of the famous ones. I used to think if only they really knew, really got it, their eyes would be opened and they would believe. I struggled with people having enough good information, but God is just and fair, and He knows the hearts of men and women.
If someone believes in a God that tortures people for eternity your moral compass is skewed.
beloved God bless you,I don't know you in person but God know you well, children suffering from
(Leukemian).
Lord minister to me in a revelation when I was praying concerning things about you, I saw blessing concerning you but the wicked spirit monitoring you and with motive to destroy your destiny are fighting you,
But as I speak to you now her time is up,the motherless babies orphanage home needs your financial help to tackle the problem of leukemia for the children Suffering from it lord reveal to me and instruct you to sow a seed to motherless babies who is suffering from (Leukemia)(saviour motherless foundation) located in Nigeria before 2days with faith, as I join you in prayer
My heavenly father will bless you as you sow a seed to these orphanages children today, you will testify to the glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him, Proverb (3: 27,21: 26: 22: 9 ), Deu 28: 1 '5
Contact the MD of the orphanage Foundation on WhatsApp No +2348137411949 Or Email: (saviourfoundation96@gmail.com) send your donation to them God bless you..,,.,,.
Eternal suffering is justice for evil done in finite time? And every word of Jesus in the gospels is exactly what he said when he walked among us, although nobody can know this? Self-deceived faith is unconvincing. Why would I listen to these so-called intellectuals in the future?
Eternal suffering is justice for committing evil against an infinite God and the further rejection of His mercy that can commute that sentence (God's Son, who willingly took infinite punishment for all people). What's more, evil (sin) cannot exist in the presence of a Holy God. He must at some point withdraw His presence from such a one. God is the source of all good and life, so for God to completely withdraw His presence from an evil creature necessarily removes all experienced good and life from that creature and all that remains is suffering.
Eternal suffering, therefore, is the sentence for those that sin against an infinite God AND reject God's offer to commute your sentence through Christ, which is exactly what Jesus spoke in the gospels.
John 1:13-15, 3:17-18
Erhman is correct. No evidence here just bias.
To believe the bible simply because the bible says it, and because the bible says it one simply believes it is circular reasoning, and a logical fallacy. The Book of Revelation is a vengeful book that basically turns Jesus on his head, transforming him into the kind of God many Christians find justifiably appalling and repugnant. It's amazing how many ambiguous symbols and metaphors exist in this egregiously written book that no one has accurately deciphered, even though armored truck loads of money have been made off the hundreds, if not thousands, of half-baked attempts. Volumes of books have been dedicated to one of the most ancient, arcane, and, some would insist, drug induced hallucinogenic pieces of literature ever to be shoe-horned into the cannon. The church fathers might just as well have included Nostradamus, as both are cut whole cloth from the human imagination.
Lacking fundamentalist theology... You both failed to make sense.