I covered this episode because the "Brother Can You Lend Two Dimes?" discussion made me think of his first appearance. But after looking at this episode closer, now I dislike his second appearance even more. Maybe I should make a "Herb Powell sucks" video and get it completely out of my system 🤣
As for Herb being single and lonely, I can kind of see it being a situation where he never realized what he was missing until he found out that he had a half brother, and then it all hits him at once. He previously hadn't even considered that he might be lonely. That's also why he takes to the Simpsons so enthusiastically, not because he never had the opportunity to have a family before, but rather because until then he never knew that he wanted one.
I like how it kinda subtly hints/suggests that he's jealous of Homer in how he expresses that Marge is "gorgeous", how he talks to her specifically during the pool scene, etc.
Its kinda like how Mr Burns didn't really think about wanting an heir to leave his legacy with until he nearly drowned. To fill this pit, he briefly adopted Bart and when he met his illegitimate son, Larry, immediately welcomed him into his life.
The ending could also possibly explain WHY Herb is so lonely. His reaction of blaming Homer for what was arguably his responsibility, and then cutting him off sounds like a pretty sad window into a man that struggles with healthy relationships.
It's even kinda foreshadowed with his dynamic with his employees, how he just screams his utter contempt for them for being his total antithesis, how he blames all the company's hardships on them and pretty much hires Homer in the first place just to take them down a peg. Can You Spare Two Dimes is pretty much the same deal, Herb feeling another party is to blame, lashing out on them and demanding they man up and give him his dues. I feel like that later gag revealing he lost all his fortune AGAIN and Homer quickly bailing is the perfect culmination to that, that this cycle just keeps happening with him because someone else is always to blame. He is hostile towards accepting his own faults, and ultimately people are driven away by that.
It's sadly pretty realistic for someone to back themselves into a corner by doing this over and over. Going back and apologising after one incident can be difficult and embarrassing, but when it becomes a pattern, it feels impossible. It would mean admitting fault for every one of these breakups. And, as anyone who has dealt with this knows, a single apology isn't enough. Growing past abusive tendancies takes not only introspection, but experience. If Herb apologised and learned from his ways (not that this could ever work in a status quo show lol), it would mean practicing coping mechanisms and also apologising when his self-restraint fails and he lashes out again. Anyone in a safe environment can break the cycle, as long as they have the humility and dedication. But you have to do it every day. That's the hard part.
I remember in The Good Place, they bring up the concept of the main character having a “me vs them” mentality, and I think that actually applies a lot to Herb Powell. I find it believable to consider that Herb may have spent a long time waiting on his adoption, that he was a rare case of an older child being adopted by a family, but that separation resulted in him not quite developing the ability to build close family relationships and being unable to account for his own actions that cause it - becoming prone to pushing people away and believing that it’s other people’s fault that he fails. If you think about it, there’s a faint superficiality to his connection to the Simpsons. He launches into spoiling Bart, Lisa and Maggie, only sees the idea that Homer can save his business, and barely seems to have a real opinion of Marge. It’s possible that he only really knows how to throw money and experiences at people, rather than to genuinely connect as a person - his real moment is him realising his loneliness when watching cartoons with Bart and Lisa. I think he’s a very tragic portrayal of a man, overall. A man who built himself up from nothing and forgot how to be human along the way. He’s a sad person, who needs to learn how to exist outside of money and to trust a person to be more than just a means to happiness.
Regarding Herb's loneliness, I get the impression that he has a strong dislike for the snobby upper class people, so he'd rather be alone than surround himself with fake admirers and yes-men. That's why he's so enamoured with Homer and his family, they feel more real. Homer and Herb don't exactly represent a "good" and "bad" path in life, but rather each brother has what the other is missing. Homer has a loving family but wishes he could be rich and successful, while Herb is very much that but also lacks any meaningful connections.
That's a good take. He is very critical of his executives who got into Harvard via their rich parents. Maybe he's just a working class guy at heart who can't vibe with his rich cohorts
@@TheRealJims Herb feels like someone who had a modest childhood, and when he got rich through hard work he never fully adapted to that lifestyle. He doesn't seem to comfortable with the life he has, hence why he yearns for Homer's simple but happy life.
I think one of my favorite moments in this episode has to be the very last scene, where Bart admits that he thought Homer’s car was cool. To me it showed that even though Homer may slip up from time to time, his family will always be there for him.
2008 did a lot of damage to that idea. Like, you need to understand that the reason why the housing crash happened and was so devastating was because literally everyone could get a loan for a house. So, you'd have literal McDonald's entry-level workers with a house, a wife, and kids, so having those things was barely an achievement.
I'd say a big difference between the two characters is Herb, who was put up for adoption, probably saw himself as abandoned, and suddenly a family member sought HIM out. It's not the same as someone looking for their long lost parents, who may still want nothing to do with them. This was a member of his family who WANTED him, so of course he'd be excited and try to see the best in his newfound family. Whereas Frank has no connection to Homer and therefore has no rose colored glasses to tint his view.
Thats actually something pretty insightful. Also makes me wonder if Herb was driven by a desire to prove himself, making his own company. He may have had business associates but no real friends, in college he worked his way through. no parties or social connections. He was in a room where, as bojack horseman put it "everyone loves you but no one likes you" And then his brother reaches out and more to tge point doesnt seem to know hes rich. Just wants to see him, try to be a family.
Herb was definitely at fault. Entirely. He wants to have the common man give ideas? Fine. He doesn't want Homer to feel dumb? Fine. He wants to spare feelings? Fine. But he can do all that while still being the CEO of a car company. Let Homer design his car, then after it's done he can look at it and explain to Homer something like "Homer, I am glad you have shown us everything a modern car needs. Obviously we will need to make some changes for practical design purposes, but your input is appreciated." It still credits Homer for his work, while explaining in a reasonable way why he can't use that exact design. Also, his company was already failing, especially if one bad car design was enough to tank them. Alternatively, he could have spun it to be a tech demo car like you see at car shows. Crammed full of features that will hopefully be introduced into cars in the future, without all going into one in particular. An easy marketing fix that could have made them more money. Side note: Herb didn't even attempt a pitch. Explain that it's a family car designed by the common man for the common man. He is as bad as Ned's parents. He tried nothing and he's dealing with the consequences. I had other stuff I could say about the episode, like how they could emphasise his loneliness by having people around that clearly care about his money but none are his friends, but this comment is a long enough spiel as it is.
That's the kind of reasoning of a caring boss and a good business person 👍 Acknowledging the hard work of others on the team, but still keeping a careful eye on the entire project. Smart twist with the tech demo too. As that could've turned his error into a great way to impress tech investors.
Danny didn't enjoy recording this episode (for vague reasons) and barely agreed to do the second Herb episode. I don't think he'd return to it even 30 years later.
@@greatscott175 Apparently he's credited for his cameo in Changing of the Guardian though (which I'm kinda surprised by, I thought he sounded kinda different there).
The "Lisa-splain" ending is one of my favourite Lisa traits. It's not exactly an ending, but her doomed, resigned comments about the predictability of the weekly dinner schedule in "One Fish, Two Fish etc etc" makes me smile every time. Depressed, moody Lisa is adorable.
There is absolutely no way that this was Homer's fault. Homer has no relevant knowledge when it comes to car design. You would get the same result if you put any average joe in charge of designing a car and gave them complete creative control. This was entirely Herb's fault for making on of the most boneheaded business decisions of all time.
The average person would realize the engineer know what there doing and would take more of a supervisor role. Like he wants a powerful car, so you tell your engineering team we need a minimum 600hp, he wants a big cup holder let the engineers deal with it.
I think it's a mix of Homer getting too carried away, the engineers being too pompous to place their arguments without being condescending jerks (eg. try contextualising that phone call and not saying you'd side with Herb a little there despite the warning), and Herb being too eager to leave them to Homer's wrath to put them in their place. Herb has an almost toxic contempt for his company, that a self made man has to show these snobs up.
This episode is also a great example of one of my favorite narrative roles Homer tended to play in the early seasons: That of a clueless force of nature whose actions end up drastically affecting other people and the narrative in ways Homer is never fully aware of or intends. It's the same role he plays in Burns Verkaufen der Kraftwerk, where him making distracted small talk with Smithers and the Germans ends up radically altering the course of the sale of the power plant, and then Homer's off the cuff confrontation of Mr. Burns at Moe's ends up resulting in the status quo being restored. He also ends up playing this role in Last Exit to Springfield, where he unwittingly becomes head of the union, has no idea what he's doing for the entire episode and yet his every innocuous action ends up being interpreted by Burns as hardline, master negotiation tactics and they end up completely changing the course of union negotiations. It's just really fun when Homer is portrayed as this clueless yutz who blunders into situations far outside his depth without realizing it and ends up inadvertantly altering the course of history by being dumb and/or lazy.
@spenser9908 The executive describes his background as when "the Anglos met the Saxons", which is to say WASP old money. Herb saying "when white met bread" is calling him boring and uninteresting.
I love when I wake up feeling like a new Jims video is coming and it does! also, Season 2 is one my favorite seasons *because* of how sincere and grounded it is. it tugs at the sentimentality in such a perfect way. I'm glad they went more coo-coo bananas going forward, but season 2 is a treasure trove of comedic slice of life vibes.
I feel like Herb's story arc would have worked well as a trilogy with the concluding part to the trilogy being the Season 10 episode Kidney Trouble which would have been a great episode to reintroduce Homer's half-brother Herb and see what his and Abe's relationship would be like and with the tragic twist of Herb dying during the operation thus ending his arc.
That's an interesting idea. Not sure it would have worked in the irreverent and somewhat cruel season 10, but maybe in season 7. That season had a lot of those kinds of episodes.
I second this, it definitely could have worked during the Oakley/Weinstein era but season 10 would have just done a quick and dirty Danny DeVito playing himself cameo and called it a day.
It would have been kinda funny if Homer returned to the hospital after running away, only to find out Herb passed by and gave Grandpa his kidney while he was gone
The thing that sells a good "homer is stupid" plot is how much of an emotional and enthusiastic dork he is. Maybe thats a thing that changed generationally but the thing that alwaus fascinated me about homerpalooza in the older that episode gets is how much of that is pitting homer against that sort of 90s youth culture cynical detachment while as the seasons go on, Homer gets more and more close to being raised in that era
Watching the show once a week in the 90s, it always seemed that this was one of the rarest episodes to rerun. Every time this one came on was always a treat.
I always think it’s weird how they did the whole “this guy is dr hibbert’s long lost brother, and neither of them will ever realize” in both this episode and ‘round Springfield.
I love how they play on our knowledge of "Average Joe outsider revitalizes business because their down-home knowledge sees what the 'experts' miss" stories, lead us to assume that's what's going on here, and then go, "Nope, putting someone with no relevant experience or training in this position would be a DISASTER."
I think Grandpa made Homer who he is and if He kept Herbert , Herbert would be in Homer's place saying the same thing Homer is and Grandpa Simpson would be calling Herbert a failure
What I kinda love about Bart's line of "I thought the car was cool" is great because it was exactly my thoughts when I watched this episode when I was a kid. Kid me didn't get why the car was bad at all. Of course, now I totally get it. The joke's on Herb though. The Car Built For Homer is one of the best cars to use in Simpsons Hit And Run.
For me this is when classic simpsons began. So rewatchable, classic jokes, great line readings like Homer yelling "SORT OF!" and "Your Holiness" get me every time. Thanks for highlighting this Season 2 gem Jims.
Fab video, never considered the Frank Grimes parallel before but now that you mention it (especially with the second Herb episode) it makes sense. Good stuff! Also this video was in my feed just before Channel 4 put a Simpsons episode on, which doubly pleases me.
I liked it well enough, though in hindsight I can see how the whole "baby translator" part was maybe a little much for that era of the show. Herb's a fairly sympathethic character, so I'm glad they brought him back and gave him a happier ending. Don't like how a later episode (The Changing of the Guardian) made him poor again.
If “Bart the Daredevil” was the moment Homer took the torch from Bart as the main character of the show, this episode is the moment Homer fully became Homer. Him not getting the Detroit hint from the Hibbert orphanage guy had huge “Mr. Thompson” energy. Obviously not the same thing, but what happened with Homer and Powell Motors was similar to Jared and Subway-a corporation investing a lot of resources into an Everyman but it uh not working out so well
I used to really like this episode a lot as a kid. Nice to see it covered here. I was also today years old when I found out Danny DeVito did Herb. As a big Always Sunny fan, this pleases me 😊
It's always a good day when Jims posts. 😊 I like to keep your Simpsons playlists pulled up when I'm relaxing or going down for a nap. You're voice is so soothing, as are the songs you use for these videos, so there's a layer of comfort there that I appreciate when I'm trying to unwind.
Ignoring what their hired experts said and demanding ploughing forward despite numerous warnings of disaster....well, at least Herb didn't get Homer to design a submarine.
Herb puts complete faith in Homer because in his eyes, despite his financial success, he sees Homer as having been more successful than him because he has a loving wife and kids. Herb being the orphan, would likely put an extra stress on having a close family.
When you mentioned Herb's sudden delcaration of "I'm so lonely" I was about to go "yeah, he's objectively rich, but of course he'd be missing something so simple in his life." I'm glad you did the Great Gatsby comparison, because it definitely feels like a parallel in both stories, that both characters, despite being at a great place in the world, still feel that there's something missing. It feels like a case of manifest destiny, where we're always pushing the limit to satisfy ourselves. To Herb's credit, though, what he wants is genuinely humble and down to earth, which kind of twists the ending's dagger even more.
I always found it so implausible that Herb never even *glanced* at his brother's car or it's price before mass-producing it and betting his entire business on it. I guess that's part of the joke, but an experienced business magnate like him doing that? No way!
Herb is just Homer with a better work ethic. His surprise is the same kind of surprise Homer would have if one of his hair-brained schemes didn't work out, only he (Herb) has a lot more to lose. He's no more immune to the family's self-inflicted pitfalls than Homer is. Lisa alluded to it at the end: it's because he's a Simpson. When Homer has his heart set on something, when does he ever listen to anyone's advice? You think Herb was gonna turn out any different?
I liked this episode to begin with, but your video made me appreciate its visual direction a lot more. You also make really good observations about the episode's similarity with certain others. I had never thought of comparing this to Homer's Enemy but it makes a lot of sense. A great image choice at 13:17. Downfall story indeed. And thanks for reminding me of some of the funny jokes in this one that I had forgotten. I love Bart singing "bastard, bastard", particularly the way he speeds up the pace towards the end.
It's Herb's fault for not enforcing a strict budget. I had to do a web search to confirm that $82,000 was the retail price, and not how much the prototype cost to build. Which makes sense, as I wouldn't imagine a project that cost less than $100,000 would bankrupt a company with a net worth in the millions.
I always wish we saw more of Herb and his backstory. Like what his adopted parent's were like, his upbringing, what drove him to want to become a success and dive deep intohis sibling relationship with Homer. But after his second appearance he doesn’t show again beyond a phone call cameo seasons later.
I always heard his name as "Herb Pal" and thought it was a play on how he's so friendly instantly and goes overboard to not lose this new relationship, even though it's a bad idea - like he really just wants to be a "pal"
It's interesting how the ending kinda takes a cynical subversive look really. After all the bonding with the family compared to his clear unhappiness managing the company, you kinda expect the cliche ending with Herb feeling freed by the company failing and now he can just spend time with his new family and outlook on life..... Screw that! He wants to be rich!
Honestly this feels like the first Simpsons episode to have an actual subversive ending, I think if this was a season 1 episode than it'd end like you say. Season 2 played with sitcom coventions a little more with episodes like this and Blood Feud
I always admired the Simpsons ability to Segway through the beginning of a story while being cohesive and believable while going into their later ensuing hijinks
It’s all Herb’s fault. I’m not doubting Herb’s heart in wanting to help Homer. It’s the brotherly thing to do. However, giving someone with No inside knowledge or experience of the type of business,that amount of power( family or not, and then dumping ALL the blame on the inexperienced person, when everything they did only got approved because of your OWN neglect, is a stupid business move. Herb can’t take accountability. Hence why he probably lost his second opportunity
@@deskish3930exactly! Nor did he personally view Homer’s new car. What competent CEO does not oversee the finalized version of a massive project/ product before it’s released? That’s a rookie mistake
6:25 Like him said in the episode, he started his work from the lowest position then kept working until he got to be the boss. That's why he has no one, he's always working. Ironically, he was just like Frank Grimme, just never met Homer before he's sucessful.
Hey Jims, have you done a review/retrospective on the Tracey Ullman era of the Simpsons? I'm curious to know your thoughts on the progenitor to a show you kinda like. At least I think you kinda like The Simpsons.
Honestly Herb was doomed either way as he did a voice cameo many years later in Changing of the Guardians where its revealed he is broke again, and that had nothing to do with Homer and in his debute episode his stock was already in the toilet. Homer didnt ruin Herb, Herb ruins himself and blames others i think that is why he is lonely because when things go wrong he blames those around him which means he is basically a toxic hothead.
I'm working on a video essay that blatently rips off-- I mean, is inspired by your editing style and I am *amazed* at how you're able to put out videos so frequently. Amazing work, as usual. ❤
I had a whole wonderful comment prepared because of your mention of The Great Gatsby while talking about watching a character's downfall from another perspective. I'd written a good bit about The Great Gatsby and the importance of Nick's POV but then I accidentally refreshed the page and lost it so I'll just summarize that Nick's view on Gatsby parallel's Gatsby's view on Daisy and that without Nick's particular point of view Gatsby wouldn't be great.
To be fair on Grimes, he at least had a son before he passed away. Frank Grimes JR attempted to kill Homer a bunch of times and Sideshow Bob was brought in to help investigate the situation with the Simpson family
I was today years old when I found out that Danny DeVito voiced Herb. I somehow managed to completely avoid this information for decades entirely by accident.
Hero, villain or rambling lunatic, the problem is that grandpa is always mainly one of those things depending on how they want him to be on a particular episode.
Back in my high school when we took break between classes during lunch time, My teacher had d v d's of season 2,3 and four of the simpsons, She also let us watch other stuff like movies. Even though it's bringing our own DVD's. Which was cool.
This is great, as was the hidden duds episode. If you haven't decided on a Halloween project, might I suggest: ranking the Treehouse of Horror openings? I say this because I feel like some of them are better than the episodes they're connected to. The Fogbury Port one is amazing: it's ominous from the start, even the seagulls have New England accents, there's a guy who mourns his boat harder than both his wife and his secret second wife, Homer out-eats CTHULHU! And then the segments themselves are fine, but wow, I would load that episode up just for the opening. I'm curious what other ones stand out.
I already mentioned this in my comment to your previous video, but I think the writers were very aware of the fact that giving Homer a millionaire brother could potentially destroy the whole premise of The Simpsons (a working class family that often has financial troubles with no easy solution). They had to destroy Herb during the episode to prevent that. Luckily it fit more than well with the already established idea of the Simpson family being such losers and bad company that they're almost cursed - of course getting them as his family will ruin Herb and cause him to fall. [On a side note, I like this take on the Simpson family in its oddly charming pessimism and I'm always happy when it occasionally reappears in later episodes, such as the Mary Poppins one.] The writers wisely had Herb both lose his fortune and break off his relationship with Homer. That left the door open for potential later Herb appearances where at least one of those two things could be restored (e.g. Herb could make peace with Homer but still remain in the same social class with him). Unfortunately Brother, Can You Spare Two Dimes? restored both and created the very problem the ending of this episode was trying to avoid. After being so careful here the writers wrote themselves into a corner with the conclusion of the second Herb episode and were forced to stop using him after that. Such a shame.
the “lovable losers” take is really interesting because i rewatched most of Bob’s Burgers recently, and that is the functional conclusion for almost every episode. What usually happens is that the Belchers lose, but the other side faces a phyrric victory that, despite their failure, the belchers can take joy in as a unit. I think you could make a real comparison point between Season 2 and 3 simpsons and Bob’s Burgers, actually.
I covered this episode because the "Brother Can You Lend Two Dimes?" discussion made me think of his first appearance. But after looking at this episode closer, now I dislike his second appearance even more.
Maybe I should make a "Herb Powell sucks" video and get it completely out of my system 🤣
I hate how herb blames homer
That would be a great video
“Ummm actually, it’s ‘Brother can you Spare two dimes.’ Worst. Simpsons fan. Ever.”
yes do it
Do I smell a new Simpsons Histories?
The Car Built for Homer might not have sold well, but it was fun to drive around in while playing the Simpsons Hit and Run
nah frink's invisimobile was the coolest
TheRealJims should do a review of the game
So glad we got some reward for finishing all those challenges.
They actually DID put Homer’s car in Hit and Run. You have to unlock it. Just look up the cheats for the game
Statistically one of the best cars in the game too (recently replayed it)
As for Herb being single and lonely, I can kind of see it being a situation where he never realized what he was missing until he found out that he had a half brother, and then it all hits him at once. He previously hadn't even considered that he might be lonely. That's also why he takes to the Simpsons so enthusiastically, not because he never had the opportunity to have a family before, but rather because until then he never knew that he wanted one.
Same!
I like how it kinda subtly hints/suggests that he's jealous of Homer in how he expresses that Marge is "gorgeous", how he talks to her specifically during the pool scene, etc.
That makes sense, too
This is the Correct answer.
Its kinda like how Mr Burns didn't really think about wanting an heir to leave his legacy with until he nearly drowned. To fill this pit, he briefly adopted Bart and when he met his illegitimate son, Larry, immediately welcomed him into his life.
The ending could also possibly explain WHY Herb is so lonely. His reaction of blaming Homer for what was arguably his responsibility, and then cutting him off sounds like a pretty sad window into a man that struggles with healthy relationships.
It's even kinda foreshadowed with his dynamic with his employees, how he just screams his utter contempt for them for being his total antithesis, how he blames all the company's hardships on them and pretty much hires Homer in the first place just to take them down a peg. Can You Spare Two Dimes is pretty much the same deal, Herb feeling another party is to blame, lashing out on them and demanding they man up and give him his dues. I feel like that later gag revealing he lost all his fortune AGAIN and Homer quickly bailing is the perfect culmination to that, that this cycle just keeps happening with him because someone else is always to blame. He is hostile towards accepting his own faults, and ultimately people are driven away by that.
It's sadly pretty realistic for someone to back themselves into a corner by doing this over and over. Going back and apologising after one incident can be difficult and embarrassing, but when it becomes a pattern, it feels impossible. It would mean admitting fault for every one of these breakups.
And, as anyone who has dealt with this knows, a single apology isn't enough. Growing past abusive tendancies takes not only introspection, but experience. If Herb apologised and learned from his ways (not that this could ever work in a status quo show lol), it would mean practicing coping mechanisms and also apologising when his self-restraint fails and he lashes out again.
Anyone in a safe environment can break the cycle, as long as they have the humility and dedication. But you have to do it every day. That's the hard part.
I remember in The Good Place, they bring up the concept of the main character having a “me vs them” mentality, and I think that actually applies a lot to Herb Powell. I find it believable to consider that Herb may have spent a long time waiting on his adoption, that he was a rare case of an older child being adopted by a family, but that separation resulted in him not quite developing the ability to build close family relationships and being unable to account for his own actions that cause it - becoming prone to pushing people away and believing that it’s other people’s fault that he fails. If you think about it, there’s a faint superficiality to his connection to the Simpsons. He launches into spoiling Bart, Lisa and Maggie, only sees the idea that Homer can save his business, and barely seems to have a real opinion of Marge. It’s possible that he only really knows how to throw money and experiences at people, rather than to genuinely connect as a person - his real moment is him realising his loneliness when watching cartoons with Bart and Lisa.
I think he’s a very tragic portrayal of a man, overall. A man who built himself up from nothing and forgot how to be human along the way. He’s a sad person, who needs to learn how to exist outside of money and to trust a person to be more than just a means to happiness.
After losing everything he probably needed Homer and his family way more than he did when he was rich and powerful.
“You’re the richest man I know.”
“I feel the same about you.”
Honestly as a kid I thought that car was the coolest design ever. Everyone else wanted the Batmobile, I just wanted the Homer.
Honestly as a 40 year old man I still love that car Homer designed
The top of my Tesla Model Y is basically a glass dome, and that thing is selling gangbusters.
His ideas were pretty good but his execution is rhe problem.
@@nampyeon635c'mon don't lie lmao
Homer’s sarcastic “Thank You” to Hibbert’s suggested long lost brother gets me every time.
Regarding Herb's loneliness, I get the impression that he has a strong dislike for the snobby upper class people, so he'd rather be alone than surround himself with fake admirers and yes-men. That's why he's so enamoured with Homer and his family, they feel more real.
Homer and Herb don't exactly represent a "good" and "bad" path in life, but rather each brother has what the other is missing. Homer has a loving family but wishes he could be rich and successful, while Herb is very much that but also lacks any meaningful connections.
I really like this take, that makes perfect sense for Herb's characterizarion.
That's a good take. He is very critical of his executives who got into Harvard via their rich parents. Maybe he's just a working class guy at heart who can't vibe with his rich cohorts
@@TheRealJims Herb feels like someone who had a modest childhood, and when he got rich through hard work he never fully adapted to that lifestyle. He doesn't seem to comfortable with the life he has, hence why he yearns for Homer's simple but happy life.
I think one of my favorite moments in this episode has to be the very last scene, where Bart admits that he thought Homer’s car was cool. To me it showed that even though Homer may slip up from time to time, his family will always be there for him.
Remember in the 90s when a 35 year old man with a beautiful wife, three kids, and a nice house could be considered a "screw up?"
@@phineas81707can we not imply that being queer or neurodivergent is "trendy"
@@phineas81707you're a strange fella
@@phineas81707 🙄
He even had lobsters for dinner
2008 did a lot of damage to that idea.
Like, you need to understand that the reason why the housing crash happened and was so devastating was because literally everyone could get a loan for a house. So, you'd have literal McDonald's entry-level workers with a house, a wife, and kids, so having those things was barely an achievement.
I'd say a big difference between the two characters is Herb, who was put up for adoption, probably saw himself as abandoned, and suddenly a family member sought HIM out. It's not the same as someone looking for their long lost parents, who may still want nothing to do with them. This was a member of his family who WANTED him, so of course he'd be excited and try to see the best in his newfound family. Whereas Frank has no connection to Homer and therefore has no rose colored glasses to tint his view.
Thats actually something pretty insightful. Also makes me wonder if Herb was driven by a desire to prove himself, making his own company. He may have had business associates but no real friends, in college he worked his way through. no parties or social connections. He was in a room where, as bojack horseman put it "everyone loves you but no one likes you"
And then his brother reaches out and more to tge point doesnt seem to know hes rich. Just wants to see him, try to be a family.
Herb "I have no brother!"
Marge "Maybe he's just saying that for conversation"😂
Herb was definitely at fault. Entirely.
He wants to have the common man give ideas? Fine. He doesn't want Homer to feel dumb? Fine. He wants to spare feelings? Fine.
But he can do all that while still being the CEO of a car company. Let Homer design his car, then after it's done he can look at it and explain to Homer something like "Homer, I am glad you have shown us everything a modern car needs. Obviously we will need to make some changes for practical design purposes, but your input is appreciated." It still credits Homer for his work, while explaining in a reasonable way why he can't use that exact design.
Also, his company was already failing, especially if one bad car design was enough to tank them. Alternatively, he could have spun it to be a tech demo car like you see at car shows. Crammed full of features that will hopefully be introduced into cars in the future, without all going into one in particular. An easy marketing fix that could have made them more money.
Side note: Herb didn't even attempt a pitch. Explain that it's a family car designed by the common man for the common man. He is as bad as Ned's parents. He tried nothing and he's dealing with the consequences.
I had other stuff I could say about the episode, like how they could emphasise his loneliness by having people around that clearly care about his money but none are his friends, but this comment is a long enough spiel as it is.
That's the kind of reasoning of a caring boss and a good business person 👍 Acknowledging the hard work of others on the team, but still keeping a careful eye on the entire project. Smart twist with the tech demo too. As that could've turned his error into a great way to impress tech investors.
I'm surprised Herb's never had a full appearance in the modern era. Devito is beloved and already works on another Fox show.
He refuses
@@almightyk11why?
Danny didn't enjoy recording this episode (for vague reasons) and barely agreed to do the second Herb episode. I don't think he'd return to it even 30 years later.
@@greatscott175 Apparently he's credited for his cameo in Changing of the Guardian though (which I'm kinda surprised by, I thought he sounded kinda different there).
@@e-122psi3 Never checked the credits for that. Interesting that he agreed to that.
Love the observation about the ending, even just a few years later Bart would’ve been joining in on laughing at Homer instead.
The "Lisa-splain" ending is one of my favourite Lisa traits. It's not exactly an ending, but her doomed, resigned comments about the predictability of the weekly dinner schedule in "One Fish, Two Fish etc etc" makes me smile every time. Depressed, moody Lisa is adorable.
Lisa is the Eeyore to Homer's Winnie-the-Pooh and Bart's Tigger.
"She did things your mother would never do... like have sex for money" is one of the funniest things Abe ever said, and he said a lot of funny things.
There is absolutely no way that this was Homer's fault. Homer has no relevant knowledge when it comes to car design. You would get the same result if you put any average joe in charge of designing a car and gave them complete creative control. This was entirely Herb's fault for making on of the most boneheaded business decisions of all time.
I think some blame also goes on everyone who just didn't mention to Herb what a disaster this was gonna be.
The average person would realize the engineer know what there doing and would take more of a supervisor role. Like he wants a powerful car, so you tell your engineering team we need a minimum 600hp, he wants a big cup holder let the engineers deal with it.
@@HonkeyKongLive They did try to tell him. He responded by making them call back and say the exact opposite of what they said.
@@collinscody57 Herb explicitly told him to do whatever he wanted. Homer was just following orders.
I think it's a mix of Homer getting too carried away, the engineers being too pompous to place their arguments without being condescending jerks (eg. try contextualising that phone call and not saying you'd side with Herb a little there despite the warning), and Herb being too eager to leave them to Homer's wrath to put them in their place. Herb has an almost toxic contempt for his company, that a self made man has to show these snobs up.
This episode is also a great example of one of my favorite narrative roles Homer tended to play in the early seasons: That of a clueless force of nature whose actions end up drastically affecting other people and the narrative in ways Homer is never fully aware of or intends.
It's the same role he plays in Burns Verkaufen der Kraftwerk, where him making distracted small talk with Smithers and the Germans ends up radically altering the course of the sale of the power plant, and then Homer's off the cuff confrontation of Mr. Burns at Moe's ends up resulting in the status quo being restored.
He also ends up playing this role in Last Exit to Springfield, where he unwittingly becomes head of the union, has no idea what he's doing for the entire episode and yet his every innocuous action ends up being interpreted by Burns as hardline, master negotiation tactics and they end up completely changing the course of union negotiations.
It's just really fun when Homer is portrayed as this clueless yutz who blunders into situations far outside his depth without realizing it and ends up inadvertantly altering the course of history by being dumb and/or lazy.
This is entirely on Herb, he was warned multiple times of Homer's incompetence but ignored it every time.
I’m actually watching season 2 right now. I’m surprised by how much heart the show already has at this point
Early Simpsons has heart, but later Simpsons has footballs in the groin.
Seasons 1 and 2 is all heart.
its kind of the heart peak
I know it's debateable. But to me season 2 was the most heart filled season
@@221b Holy shit it's funny because its true
"When White met Bread." is an all-time Golden Era line.
Yep and not even my favorite of that scene- that would be “Oh yeah! Now I remember you!” about Herb attending Fair Harvard
I never understood that line.
@@spenser9908white bread didn’t exist until industrialisation and mechanisation
@spenser9908 The executive describes his background as when "the Anglos met the Saxons", which is to say WASP old money. Herb saying "when white met bread" is calling him boring and uninteresting.
@@harrisonlee9585 Isn't that a little racist, to say someone's boring based on their race or heritage?
I love when I wake up feeling like a new Jims video is coming and it does!
also, Season 2 is one my favorite seasons *because* of how sincere and grounded it is. it tugs at the sentimentality in such a perfect way. I'm glad they went more coo-coo bananas going forward, but season 2 is a treasure trove of comedic slice of life vibes.
I'd argue that Homer's car is more remembered than Herb himself mainly because it was a pretty fun ride in Simpsons Hit and Run
It was also really good too, great stats.
Tail fins never go out of style
I feel like Herb's story arc would have worked well as a trilogy with the concluding part to the trilogy being the Season 10 episode Kidney Trouble which would have been a great episode to reintroduce Homer's half-brother Herb and see what his and Abe's relationship would be like and with the tragic twist of Herb dying during the operation thus ending his arc.
That's an interesting idea. Not sure it would have worked in the irreverent and somewhat cruel season 10, but maybe in season 7. That season had a lot of those kinds of episodes.
I second this, it definitely could have worked during the Oakley/Weinstein era but season 10 would have just done a quick and dirty Danny DeVito playing himself cameo and called it a day.
@@bobkerr2755 Which is pretty much what they did in season 24.
@@proa007 ah yes, the voicemail where he says he's broke again
It would have been kinda funny if Homer returned to the hospital after running away, only to find out Herb passed by and gave Grandpa his kidney while he was gone
The thing that sells a good "homer is stupid" plot is how much of an emotional and enthusiastic dork he is. Maybe thats a thing that changed generationally but the thing that alwaus fascinated me about homerpalooza in the older that episode gets is how much of that is pitting homer against that sort of 90s youth culture cynical detachment while as the seasons go on, Homer gets more and more close to being raised in that era
I'm waiting for them to make "That 2000's Show" covering Homer and Marge's high school years BEFORE they met each other.
Watching the show once a week in the 90s, it always seemed that this was one of the rarest episodes to rerun. Every time this one came on was always a treat.
I always think it’s weird how they did the whole “this guy is dr hibbert’s long lost brother, and neither of them will ever realize” in both this episode and ‘round Springfield.
I love how they play on our knowledge of "Average Joe outsider revitalizes business because their down-home knowledge sees what the 'experts' miss" stories, lead us to assume that's what's going on here, and then go, "Nope, putting someone with no relevant experience or training in this position would be a DISASTER."
Exactly. It's such a great twist that instead of saving things [like a traditional story would end] it's an utter disaster!
I think Grandpa made Homer who he is and if He kept Herbert , Herbert would be in Homer's place saying the same thing Homer is and Grandpa Simpson would be calling Herbert a failure
"Unlike Grimey who worked himself to death to live between two bowling allies"
Wow....
What I kinda love about Bart's line of "I thought the car was cool" is great because it was exactly my thoughts when I watched this episode when I was a kid.
Kid me didn't get why the car was bad at all. Of course, now I totally get it.
The joke's on Herb though. The Car Built For Homer is one of the best cars to use in Simpsons Hit And Run.
Back in the day I had a UK single episode VHS tape from Asda with this episode watched it like 4000 times
Homer proclaiming that he needs a cup holder for his drink is my favorite part of this episode.
The contrast between Herb and Grimey is illustrative of the post-Reagan entrenchment of economic classes and stifling of social mobility
Herb the kind of guy who was able to climb the ladder and then pull it up so those after him could not
For me this is when classic simpsons began. So rewatchable, classic jokes, great line readings like Homer yelling "SORT OF!" and "Your Holiness" get me every time. Thanks for highlighting this Season 2 gem Jims.
Fab video, never considered the Frank Grimes parallel before but now that you mention it (especially with the second Herb episode) it makes sense. Good stuff! Also this video was in my feed just before Channel 4 put a Simpsons episode on, which doubly pleases me.
This made me realise C4 has had the Simpsons at 6 for longer than BBC2 did… damn
I’ll be honest, I actually really like “Brother Can You Spare Two Dimes?”
I liked it well enough, though in hindsight I can see how the whole "baby translator" part was maybe a little much for that era of the show.
Herb's a fairly sympathethic character, so I'm glad they brought him back and gave him a happier ending. Don't like how a later episode (The Changing of the Guardian) made him poor again.
Let's get him, fellas!
A lot of it is kind of stupid and it's unfair to Homer when it was entirely Herb's fault, but it's funny enough to make up for its other issues.
If “Bart the Daredevil” was the moment Homer took the torch from Bart as the main character of the show, this episode is the moment Homer fully became Homer. Him not getting the Detroit hint from the Hibbert orphanage guy had huge “Mr. Thompson” energy. Obviously not the same thing, but what happened with Homer and Powell Motors was similar to Jared and Subway-a corporation investing a lot of resources into an Everyman but it uh not working out so well
I used to really like this episode a lot as a kid. Nice to see it covered here.
I was also today years old when I found out Danny DeVito did Herb. As a big Always Sunny fan, this pleases me 😊
It's always a good day when Jims posts. 😊 I like to keep your Simpsons playlists pulled up when I'm relaxing or going down for a nap. You're voice is so soothing, as are the songs you use for these videos, so there's a layer of comfort there that I appreciate when I'm trying to unwind.
Ignoring what their hired experts said and demanding ploughing forward despite numerous warnings of disaster....well, at least Herb didn't get Homer to design a submarine.
Herb puts complete faith in Homer because in his eyes, despite his financial success, he sees Homer as having been more successful than him because he has a loving wife and kids. Herb being the orphan, would likely put an extra stress on having a close family.
0:22 It is entirely Herbs fault. He´s the CEO. He´s resposible for the Company.
Ah, one of the only car based episodes in early Simpsons, making the perfect car to drive in Simpsons Hit and Run and Road Rage
When you mentioned Herb's sudden delcaration of "I'm so lonely" I was about to go "yeah, he's objectively rich, but of course he'd be missing something so simple in his life."
I'm glad you did the Great Gatsby comparison, because it definitely feels like a parallel in both stories, that both characters, despite being at a great place in the world, still feel that there's something missing. It feels like a case of manifest destiny, where we're always pushing the limit to satisfy ourselves. To Herb's credit, though, what he wants is genuinely humble and down to earth, which kind of twists the ending's dagger even more.
This is my favorite video of yours to date. Excellent analysis
Fun fact did you know The Homer is heavily based on the 1991 Chevy Caprice. I say this because from what I seen no one points this fact out
I think Herb's biggest flaw was he's like Homer and is just unaware that he could fail.
I always found it so implausible that Herb never even *glanced* at his brother's car or it's price before mass-producing it and betting his entire business on it. I guess that's part of the joke, but an experienced business magnate like him doing that? No way!
My video player stopped at 11:38
I wasn’t watching, and fully assumed it was an intentional joke.
It's a masterful episode. Almost a Greek tragedy. Beautiful.
This has always been a favorite episode of mine and I really appreciate your nuanced thoughts on it
Homer Simpson is a brilliant man... with lots of well-thought-out, practical ideas.
Another great analysis! I’m going to have to rewatch this episode soon.
Also, I somehow never realized that Danny DeVito voiced Herb.
I would say when the Anglos met the Saxons. So in other words when white met bread.
You should a Simpsons mysteries for how so many common objects spontaneously combust throughout the show.
Seen a few of your videos they’re great just subbed 👍
I wonder where Herb is these days. He could be anywhere... even Detroit!
I’ve always hated how Herb didn’t listen to anyway even Homer and is surprised when the car Homer makes is trash
Herb is just Homer with a better work ethic. His surprise is the same kind of surprise Homer would have if one of his hair-brained schemes didn't work out, only he (Herb) has a lot more to lose. He's no more immune to the family's self-inflicted pitfalls than Homer is.
Lisa alluded to it at the end: it's because he's a Simpson. When Homer has his heart set on something, when does he ever listen to anyone's advice? You think Herb was gonna turn out any different?
@@SunshineDeluxe that’s makes a lot of sense
I liked this episode to begin with, but your video made me appreciate its visual direction a lot more. You also make really good observations about the episode's similarity with certain others. I had never thought of comparing this to Homer's Enemy but it makes a lot of sense. A great image choice at 13:17. Downfall story indeed.
And thanks for reminding me of some of the funny jokes in this one that I had forgotten. I love Bart singing "bastard, bastard", particularly the way he speeds up the pace towards the end.
It's all the fault of the rack and peanut steering
It's Herb's fault for not enforcing a strict budget.
I had to do a web search to confirm that $82,000 was the retail price, and not how much the prototype cost to build. Which makes sense, as I wouldn't imagine a project that cost less than $100,000 would bankrupt a company with a net worth in the millions.
I always wish we saw more of Herb and his backstory. Like what his adopted parent's were like, his upbringing, what drove him to want to become a success and dive deep intohis sibling relationship with Homer. But after his second appearance he doesn’t show again beyond a phone call cameo seasons later.
His car is still better than the cybertruck
I always heard his name as "Herb Pal" and thought it was a play on how he's so friendly instantly and goes overboard to not lose this new relationship, even though it's a bad idea - like he really just wants to be a "pal"
Do you think that mona simpson could have shot mr burns?
Probably not she's a very peaceful person and even If she did she would have made sure he wouldn't survive.
I couldn't possibly say.... caaan youu?
It's interesting how the ending kinda takes a cynical subversive look really. After all the bonding with the family compared to his clear unhappiness managing the company, you kinda expect the cliche ending with Herb feeling freed by the company failing and now he can just spend time with his new family and outlook on life..... Screw that! He wants to be rich!
Honestly this feels like the first Simpsons episode to have an actual subversive ending, I think if this was a season 1 episode than it'd end like you say.
Season 2 played with sitcom coventions a little more with episodes like this and Blood Feud
I love this and the other episode with herb but for some reason I always forget they exist
I still remember watching this episode when it first aired.
I wish my memory was as sharp when I was taking exams in college, though.
The Homer was my favourite car in Hit & Run.
The thing about Herb is, he started blastin
13:31 Homer and herb on the couch "what are you doing half bro?!" 🤣
I could imagine the Powell Homer car becoming a cult classic, kinda like how the Pontiac Aztek did after Breaking Bad.
I would say Herb is just as much responsible for what happened as Homer is. But more so Herb because he should have known better.
..well time for me to get up and do something on my day off..*sees upload*...maybe next year!
I HAVE NO BROTHER !!!!!
I always admired the Simpsons ability to Segway through the beginning of a story while being cohesive and believable while going into their later ensuing hijinks
It’s all Herb’s fault. I’m not doubting Herb’s heart in wanting to help Homer. It’s the brotherly thing to do.
However, giving someone with No inside knowledge or experience of the type of business,that amount of power( family or not, and then dumping ALL the blame on the inexperienced person, when everything they did only got approved because of your OWN neglect, is a stupid business move.
Herb can’t take accountability. Hence why he probably lost his second opportunity
also he completely shut down his employees when they warned him that this would ruin him financially
@@deskish3930exactly! Nor did he personally view Homer’s new car. What competent CEO does not oversee the finalized version of a massive project/ product before it’s released? That’s a rookie mistake
6:25 Like him said in the episode, he started his work from the lowest position then kept working until he got to be the boss. That's why he has no one, he's always working.
Ironically, he was just like Frank Grimme, just never met Homer before he's sucessful.
Comparing Homer's Brother with Homer's Enemy was an inspired choice. That juxtaposition speaks volumes.
One of Big Jim's best videos.
Hey Jims, have you done a review/retrospective on the Tracey Ullman era of the Simpsons? I'm curious to know your thoughts on the progenitor to a show you kinda like. At least I think you kinda like The Simpsons.
What I loved is that they continued the story in Season 3
Honestly Herb was doomed either way as he did a voice cameo many years later in Changing of the Guardians where its revealed he is broke again, and that had nothing to do with Homer and in his debute episode his stock was already in the toilet.
Homer didnt ruin Herb, Herb ruins himself and blames others i think that is why he is lonely because when things go wrong he blames those around him which means he is basically a toxic hothead.
I'm working on a video essay that blatently rips off-- I mean, is inspired by your editing style and I am *amazed* at how you're able to put out videos so frequently. Amazing work, as usual. ❤
I always thought Homer's car was cool
I had a whole wonderful comment prepared because of your mention of The Great Gatsby while talking about watching a character's downfall from another perspective. I'd written a good bit about The Great Gatsby and the importance of Nick's POV but then I accidentally refreshed the page and lost it so I'll just summarize that Nick's view on Gatsby parallel's Gatsby's view on Daisy and that without Nick's particular point of view Gatsby wouldn't be great.
Great as always Jim !!!!
To be fair on Grimes, he at least had a son before he passed away. Frank Grimes JR attempted to kill Homer a bunch of times and Sideshow Bob was brought in to help investigate the situation with the Simpson family
I was today years old when I found out that Danny DeVito voiced Herb. I somehow managed to completely avoid this information for decades entirely by accident.
Man that intresting theory thing grandpa said. You barely see that side of abe anymore
"Anymore" being around 20 years at this point
Hero, villain or rambling lunatic, the problem is that grandpa is always mainly one of those things depending on how they want him to be on a particular episode.
@@Ometecuhtli hes mostly a rambling light hearted dummy that cares
Didn't Homer HIMSELF warn him like TWICE??
Back in my high school when we took break between classes during lunch time, My teacher had d v d's of season 2,3 and four of the simpsons, She also let us watch other stuff like movies. Even though it's bringing our own DVD's. Which was cool.
A fave ep of mine
This is great, as was the hidden duds episode. If you haven't decided on a Halloween project, might I suggest: ranking the Treehouse of Horror openings? I say this because I feel like some of them are better than the episodes they're connected to. The Fogbury Port one is amazing: it's ominous from the start, even the seagulls have New England accents, there's a guy who mourns his boat harder than both his wife and his secret second wife, Homer out-eats CTHULHU! And then the segments themselves are fine, but wow, I would load that episode up just for the opening. I'm curious what other ones stand out.
I already mentioned this in my comment to your previous video, but I think the writers were very aware of the fact that giving Homer a millionaire brother could potentially destroy the whole premise of The Simpsons (a working class family that often has financial troubles with no easy solution). They had to destroy Herb during the episode to prevent that. Luckily it fit more than well with the already established idea of the Simpson family being such losers and bad company that they're almost cursed - of course getting them as his family will ruin Herb and cause him to fall. [On a side note, I like this take on the Simpson family in its oddly charming pessimism and I'm always happy when it occasionally reappears in later episodes, such as the Mary Poppins one.]
The writers wisely had Herb both lose his fortune and break off his relationship with Homer. That left the door open for potential later Herb appearances where at least one of those two things could be restored (e.g. Herb could make peace with Homer but still remain in the same social class with him). Unfortunately Brother, Can You Spare Two Dimes? restored both and created the very problem the ending of this episode was trying to avoid. After being so careful here the writers wrote themselves into a corner with the conclusion of the second Herb episode and were forced to stop using him after that. Such a shame.
Its been years, and I still hope that they bring back danny devito for one last hurrah for herb
This guy's analysis is just incredible.
the “lovable losers” take is really interesting because i rewatched most of Bob’s Burgers recently, and that is the functional conclusion for almost every episode. What usually happens is that the Belchers lose, but the other side faces a phyrric victory that, despite their failure, the belchers can take joy in as a unit. I think you could make a real comparison point between Season 2 and 3 simpsons and Bob’s Burgers, actually.
I for one would love to tell people I drive a Powell Persephone.