CNC Milling and Heat Treating Blades for a PCB Separator | HotShot 360
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Today we're CNC milling and heat treating a pair of PCB separator blades out of D2 tool steel. We'll use super glue workholding, and break a drill, just for your entertainment.
Grinding video on Yuchol's Channel: • Surface Grinding D2 To...
Tools used in this video:
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Nicholson Swiss Made Needle File Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3qGOw6q
Tsubosan Harness Testing Files (Amazon*): amzn.to/3EJoCp7
Shars 440V 4" Mill Vise (Amazon*): amzn.to/3hZooyD
HHIP 2-4-6 Blocks (pair) (Amazon*): amzn.to/2Wi03eM
Loctite 7452 Spray Accelerator (Amazon*): amzn.to/3y7gcoY
Loctite 414 Super Bonder Super Glue (Amazon*): amzn.to/2ZsZn7A
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Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Clough42 demonstrates friction stir welding. Excellent.
My thought as well!
Another way for work holding, drill the holes first. And then bolt through the holes with a flat head cap screw. Then you can machine all the way around the outside without having to worry about the glue breaking loose.
That's what I usually do. I'll use brass machine screws if there's a chance that the end mill will get anywhere near the screw.
Blue Painters Tape and CA Glue on both surfaces -works well, too- for holding down material for cnc machining. Another great video, James.
Thanks. I've used that method before for milling aluminum, but didn't think it would be strong enough for D2. It might be worth trying. What I did didn't work that well....
I saw a lot of new-to-me techniques in this video. Thanks.
If you look back at the drilling of the third hole, you see that the superglue gave way at the end of that drilling operation.
I guess I didn't notice that. Overall, I was underwhelmed.
@@Clough42 Chris at Clickspring makes it look easy, but then again, he is usually working in brass.
@@mrtnsnp yeah. The D2 behaved better then I feared it might, but it's definitely tough.
@@Clough42 have you seen NYCNC's method of superglue? He uses painters tape and glue and it works well for him. He has a few videos about it.
@@Regular6782 Very frustrating. It depends on the kind of blue tape you can find. Coolant was soaking the tape and it ended up not working at all.
Interesting to see the difference the heat treating makes. Great video
From my experience, D2 never stops moving. You could try 4 draws at the 400° level. Keep checking for flatness, they can still warp. If you need even less oxidation, put a piece or two of paper in the bag. When they start on fire they will use up the tiny amount of oxygen in the bag. Great video. Thank you for the time and effort.
Interesting. Is 400F enough to reduce the stress? Obviously I don't want them to move now that they're ground, but for future projects...
@@Clough42 Those being a single thickness will probable be fine. I would definitely inspect them over time. If you want that hardness 400 x 4 times would have helped. Higher temp will only drop hardness and not make them more stable. D2 is great, D2 can be frustrating. Especially with different cross sections. The skinny section always seems to move over time and stress. A2 is 90% as good and way easier to use. IMHO. Results may vary.
I'm a little shocked how clean those blades were coming out of the envelope. I had no idea the foil sealed that well.
I wasn't sure what to expect. Many people suggested adding paper to the packet to consume oxygen, but I didn't want to add more carbon. This was my first experience with the material and didn't want to add variables.
The color we typically got was a light grey with no oxidation.
Wow James, that drill 'deposit" looks like it was done via TIG lol! Thanks for posting...Happy Holidays!
You managed to get the holes ok, just bolt it down after that
When heat treating in foil wrap you can add a little bit of carbon dust, breadcrumbs, or something that is going to oxidize/burn lower than the steel In order to consume whatever oxygen is left in the pouch
Really enjoy the fusion stuff very helpful .....the interview was pretty great too😂
Yuchol is Lot of fun.
I've never tried to work with D2 yet, just O2. Sounds like the stuff is fairly finicky but your blades came out great! Haven't seen Yuchol's side of the story yet, but it's on the list!
Nice Oven. I bought the sheet metal from Stan and all the parts needed. My COPD is getter worse so didn't want to deal with cutting the insulation and didn't complete the build. Bought one of the new big $$ ones :)
You should turn that piece of steel, with the drill bit embedded in it, into a pendant or bracelet charm.
Nice 👍 Glad to get to see you use the CNC mill yaaaaa James
I have a couple more projects I need to get to with it, and then I have another CNC build in the works. :)
@@Clough42 Are you going to CNC that big Precision Matthews mill? That would be amazing, as long as there was still a way to run it by hand.
You can see the piece of D2 lift slightly when drilling the second and third holes
Thanks for sharing and Merry Christmas to you and your family.
You missed adding the small notch at the top part of the original blade design. I was speculating that the purpose of this notch is likely two-fold. You can sharpen the cutting surface as you have space to allow clear sharpening tool access to that surface, and the notch would allow material to move into when the bite occurs. The FR4 substrate won't compact as much and then more likely discharge once the blade lifts. If you make other thickness blades in the future, perhaps you might like to see if adding the notch improves cutting ability. I love watching your videos. Merry XMAS to you and your family.
I added the notch before heat treating. I didn't show that part of the process in the video.
The dead stare and the long pause after saying "I want them all..." sent shivers down my spine. Do I need an intervention too?
We all do.
That ca residue on the 246 block will clean up with acetone just fine, no need to stone it
for re- contour , theres certainly faster ways to do in f360.. one is to add a countour as a finish op at the bottom , when you want to post process , right click just that single op , and select post process. it will save the previous setup but only generate a post process for the 1 op.
Not sure I understand... The right-click is faster than selecting the step and clicking the post button?
@@Clough42 ok , i rewatched that part.. I see now you were planning to reuse that program for future blades..( or atleast save it ) , My bad.. awesome work as usual..
Genuine question, as I think you are very careful and aware of your thought processes. Was it a deliberate choice to install the blade facing the other way and if so, what was the reason.
No. I'll orient it however is convenient when I use the tool.
Awesome as always! The only experience I have with hardening and tempering is doing it the blacksmith way where you water or oil quench from the Curie point and then temper it back by slowly heating it it and watching the oxide colours to determine what hardness you've drawn back to and testing with a shop file at each point to determine approximate hardness; it's no where near as precise as using a heat treating oven and precision files, but if you need to harden some steel in a pinch, it works well enough :)
When you re-cut the holes, how did you find your part zero again? Were you just using the zero stored in the machine from the original op or did you set the origin to the aluminum block for both operations? In the video it looks like you zeroed on the stock (which makes sense), I suspect you used the original zero and then only re-zeroed the Z axis after losing steps.
Correct. The machine kept its place, and I only had to re-zero the z axis. There was still a small island on the aluminum block that hadn't been undercut.
if you cut the piece longer, you could clamp it down at each end, and when profiling, leave tabs or not mill full depth at the ends. If you want to increase the size of holes, just make the diameter of the end mill smaller, and rerun the code with same sized mill.
I don't currently have tool diameter offsets enabled, but that is definitely another way to do it. Clamping the ends of the part would require slotting, and I didn't want to risk full-depth slotting in D2 with a small 4-flute end mill. Maybe someday I'll be brave enough.
Going into board service?
so... you have to stone the 420 vapor?
Probably not. But I usually stone the blocks before using them anyway.
you can put a piece of paper in that stainless envelope, it'll consume the oxygen inside the envelope and protect the parts from oxidation even further. That is if you don't want to fill the envelope with borax, which would be ideal.
Not sure I saw anything I wasn't happy with the way I did it. I wasn't sure if I would get scale or not, but I didn't really see any.
The drill code disaster is begging to be made into an unwanted necklace pendant for your wife😂
Is there any value to putting a piece of paper inside the foil pack? There is some old time narrative out there indicating that it consumes the oxygen when it ignites… or something along those lines?
I didn't do it, and the results look good to me. I see some slight discoloration, but no scale.
When I was making knives I learned if you throw a piece of paper in the stainless envelope it will burn and use up the oxygen before the steel is affected and you'll get even less discolouration
This has come up several times. Yuchol suggested it to me, too. :)
@@Clough42 doesn't matter much since you were grinding it anyway
Came out pretty clean already!
what a great video. question. have you ever thought of upgrading the motors on your cncmill to servo. motors...im going to do that with mine in the couple months...hopefully ill do some videos of the process...going with mesa 7i76 and a pi4 with a touch screen and linux cnc...DMM servo .75k motors...should be fun...is your mill the 3200 rpm version?
My CNC mill was a 2200rpm Grizzly G0704, but I removed the stock head and I'm running a 12Krpm ISO30 spindle.
@Clough42
You forgot to ad the link to the video 2:20
You're right. I forgot. I just added it.
So, when does the surface grinder arrive ?
I haven't found the courage to try again yet after my last experience.
Nice. I wonder what the trade-off is with the T-blades like 8932191.001. You decided to go with the L-blade so there must be some disadvantage. Safety?
You're assuming I thought it through. The boards I make only need to be cut in one direction, so I just made the single hook tool.
@@Clough42 In my defense you're usually pretty thorough. ;-)
I would have just left tabs and remove later. I do this all the time..
I wasn't sure I wanted to try to slot, which would be needed for that technique. Maybe I'll try it next time.
I always disliked grinding with D-2 steel. It glazes over, and warps, Though for your application I believe it is a good choice, and worth trouble to machine and grind it.
Yeah, kind of what I gathered. Possibly problematic, but worth trying.
Superglue not great for drilling and side milling on tough steel.
Instead of cutting the stock to size first, I would have clamped the stock bar just outside the part area, then drilled and milled it 90% done, but not the 2 ends of the part.
Then clamped the part itself, and milled the 2 ends to separate the part from the bar of stock.
That can work. I didn't want to try slotting as my first attempt with this material.
I’ve heard of people using Nitto tape instead of superglue. I use it to hold parts for hand engraving and it seems to work better for me.
The stresses involved in milling are a little different, and I wonder how the flexibility of the tape layer would affect the cutting process. It would be worth a try.
I use Nitto tape to hold small things on my wood lathe sometimes, and it usually works well for that. It's the best double sided tape I've ever found. But the stresses there are fairly low - low enough that I can control the other end of the tool handle with my hand. I would be pretty surprised if it could stand up to the much higher stresses of milling tool steel. But I guess there's only one way to find out!
For less than 10x the price 🤣🤣
"We can probably make these for less than ten times that price." That may well be the best Freudian slip I've heard.
Why buy ready-made parts from the manufacturer when you can make your own for the paltry sum of materials, time, tooling, scrapped parts, and a new fully equipped workshop?
For the price, you also get lessons learned and a fun day in the shop, swearing under your breath.
@@Clough42 I didn't realize that "under your breath" was an option. I've been doing it wrong all this time!
I thought it was intentional. :D
Why don't you just use wear cutter compensation in mach3 instead of reposting the gcode with negative radial stock to leave every time you need to modify the tolerance on a feature?
In Fusion just set your compensation type to "wear" in the passes tab and then if you need to increase a hole diameter by 0.006" you can just open your mach3 tool table, and set the "Diameter Wear" value for the tool you're using to -0.003". Then just re-run the 2D contour and it will take off 0.003" of material per side... No need to repost gcode every single time. On my PM25 if I need a really accurate hole I've found I can accurately step the size out in increments of 0.0002" until I get the exact fit that I want all using cutter comp and never having to repost code.
Good tip. I always think of that after it's too late. :)
I find that drilling and superglue operations do not play nicely. Drilling operations tend to force chips between the glued surfaces lifting it up the work piece. Even milling I will rough mill .010 above glue joint and only break with a light cut. Results may vary.
Yeah, someone else pointed out that the failure likely occurred during drilling. I need to keep an eye on that. Always learning.
1:32 - "It's a tool and I want to own them all." -- Yea I get that; Great job as always.
Different scale - but I remember Edge Precision had the same issue in his video "Facing Titanium Plates" where the plates would warp slightly as the different faces of the titanium were machined off. He knew it was going to happen - and planned that the finished part would end up being from the centre of the piece of stock - in effect, shaving off the same amount of "stress" from both sides..
Yeah, this is really common in cold-finished steel as well. If you machine the skin off of one side, it bows significantly. I wasn't sure what to expect here, but it looks like as long as we kept the material removal even, it turned out okay. If I have a part in the future that requires more precision, I'll want to plan for the movement.
OLAMEF in Calamandrana... 25 miles from where I grew up, 6,000 miles from where I live now. No idea there was such a company there.
Looks like you discovered a new way to do spot welding. 🙂 Do you recall about how long you quenched those parts between the aluminum bars?
They were cool in less than a minute.
@@Clough42 I wonder if steel would work better? Being less thermally conductive. I am sure you just grabbed what was in the pile-O-metal. End result was all good!
@@joeldriver381 I used aluminum because that's what is usually recommended for plate quenching.
Actually that is a defined welding technique, called friction stir welding. Generally used to join the edges of two flat plates. Not used much because it seems to be difficult to get and keep working right.
"The other reason I wanted it is because it's a tool and I want to own them all" Love the deadpan dry humor! Or is it??
Indeed.
100% appreciate that the estimate is less than 10x the price.
Also, why you gotta call everyone out like that?
One of Dan Gebart’s recent videos mentions dripping methanol into heat treat oven to address oxidation. I’m curious how this performs vs argon atmosphere
Interesting. Sounds like just the right combination of scary and probably-might-work.
James, you should enlarge the photo of your drill disaster into a photo that you can hang on the wall or use as part of a photographic calendar for your customers at the end of the year . I'm sure you have enough to get twelve different ones. Could be a fun project.
That's not a bad idea. Most of my mistakes aren't very visual, though. Usually just a lot of missed dimensions.
Why go through all that CAM work when you could just use cutter compensation?
Cutter compensation would work for this, but it's something I haven't set up. I only think about it when I need it and the existing CAM program doesn't have it. :)
"Because it's a tool and I want to own them all." Awesome, tee-shirts anyone? 🙂
If you were to make more of these i would suggest a jig for holding the blades during cutting. Those 3 holes can get 2 screws (which thread down into the aluminum block). If you first stack the blades i guess you can clamp at least 3 down and drill the holes. Then put them in the jig, screwed down. I suppose you could make hundreds of these in a day :P
Oh my! Making hundreds of the same part would test my sanity. I would also relentlessly engineer the process to make it more efficient. :)
Thanks for showing and explaining the finer procedures of D-2 heat treating. During the last twenty years of my tool making career I made many fixtures and dies from A-2 and D-2 tool steels. A-2 is known as “air-hard” and D-2 is “air-tough” with high wear and abrasion qualities as you pointed out.
One large piercing die used D-2 for upper punches and lower die sections. We sealed the parts in foil and cooled under an overhead fan and tempered per instructions. Grinding worked best with an open structure wheel, sharp dressing diamond, and plenty of coolant. The punches , approximately 90 x .156 diameter, were ground to a shallow “tent shape” on the tips and staggered in several levels to reduce the press load. This die pierced and blanked .050 stainless steel sheets for a dental company and was still making parts when I retired from the company.
Your statement at the beginning described every man that does jobs or hobbies that require tools. felt that way for decades. I don't think it's possible to own to many tools. Most knife makers place a little bit of paper inside the oven to burn up the oxygen left inside the envelope. Thanks again James.
Your a freaking genius James. I’ve been very impressed with everything you’ve put out so far. Keep up the Great work.
Awesome build James!
Its a Tool and I want to own them all.
I am appropriating that comment and keeping it locked and loaded!
James on the last video in Seattle that's why we stay away from Seattle that live in Washington
I wish Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Nice job explaining everything.
But no it's really good
good job
James another great video. Are you still using Mach 3 to run your mill. I have seen videos on other channels where the steppers are loosing steps using Mach 3 and 4. The reasion I am asking I am in the process of building a CNC Wood Router.
Yes, I'm using MACH3, but I'm using an external motion controller (ESS SmoothStepper). With good digital drivers, I've never lost a step in X or Y. I occasionally struggle with Z, which you saw in this video, but that's a mechanical/stepper issue, and not a MACH3 issue. I started out using the parallel port, and I will never do that again.
Great video production/discussion/build
Is that Starbucks to-go cup metric or imperial? This will influence my Christmas card mailing list. Please reply.
If you must know, it's a SOLO TP16D with the matching 626P lid.
@@Clough42 hahahaha
I have acquired a good amount of tool steel but I have not really worked with it, YET !!... I hope to use it for some projects in the near future.. Another very informative video .. Thanks for Sharing ... Stay Safe and Merry Christmas to you and yours ...
Might try locktite threadlocker. I've seen people use it before and it hardens from the lack of air between the metals.
Also can be removed with some heat
"It's a tool and I want to own them all"
I don't even do anything with my tools most of the time, but I _might_ need this one specific thing, so why not right? (besides all the reasons I just thought of)
Modify your fixture with a threaded hold below the center hole in the part, than add a little more material to the cutting end and a second threaded hole there. The drilling will not add much side load so the super glue will hold. once drilled add two cap screws prior to profiling the part.
Interesting that the small hole was not selected in the recontour operation but it recontoured the small hole anyway....
Movie magic. I shot some of this out of order and I guess I missed that detail.
@@Clough42 I thought it was the drugs kicking in.
You need to keep that coupon of metal for your shame shelf. it is cool loooking and has a story.
"It's a tool, and I want to own them all". Truly, I have found my people...
Hey James, this is off topic but I wanted to ask you if you have done any sort of video regarding the new personal license for Fusion 360. Specifically regarding the limitations with the CNC Side (No rapids). Has this been an issue for you and/or are there things you do Post Fusion to setup your gcode? If you have a video or know of one that would be great. I'm on the fence whether I should get the license or not. thanks
I pay for a commercial license because I use it for activities that generate (small amounts of) revenue.
No rapids or tool changes = frustration. Didn't want to but I spent the money last year. Not happy about the increase cost this year but as they say it's only money :)
@@jimkramer4001 Yeah, I was using the startup license, since my business makes decidedly less than the cutoff, and I was pretty frustrated when they capped it at 3 years. But I paid for the commercial license, and I don't regret it. When I first started using F360 back in the day, it was pretty weak, but of late, it's a very capable CAD/CAM platform.
Cleaning surfaces: isoprop is petrochemical based and is not residue free. you should have used Acetone. The prep to use for TIG welding to ensure it is clean. You would have seen what was left behind.
That's funny. At work, we use IPA in clean rooms specifically because it doesn't leave residues. Other Internet sources suggest using IPA to remove the residues left behind by acetone.
@@Clough42 Sounds like the topic for a video. Because Acetone is much more expensive and needed for all TIG work I've read and it dissolves epoxy and CA glue.
@@nathanquinlan2719 not sure there's anything to investigate. ruclips.net/video/WFpWziLwDRE/видео.html
Something like Loctite 609, designed for metal-metal contact and doesn't need air contact, will be much better for fixturing, if you can give it 8-24 hours to cure. It sticks so well, trying to force a chisel between the D2 and the aluminum would've actually bent the D2. But once you're done, the torch trick works just same, so removal is still easy.
Thanks. Maybe I'll try that next time. Though I really want something that will grab in 8-24 seconds. :)
@@Clough42 What type does @blondiehacks use? I have seen her use superglue on her lathe a bunch of times to hold small parts like this
@@jscancella maybe I'll ask.
@@Clough42 NYC CNC had a series on superglue fixturing a couple of years back. I vaguely recall they decided that the type of interface layer (masking tape) had a huge amount to do with how well it worked. Don't know if going back and looking at that would be worth your time or not, but it should be there.
@@Clough42 That collaboration would be very cool!
Very neat, thanks.
PF 9!
Hi James, if you are looking for a really good prototyping sized grinder, check out the one Tormach makes. I’m a shop teacher and my students have good success using it (it is semi automated so they only have to manually adjust wheel height during a grind).
Happy holidays to you and your viewers!
William
Discontinued.
Chang the compensation from "in computer" to "wear" above where you changed the stock to leave, it will output g41/g42 then you can do this all through the control software without having to repost your code again.
Thanks. Several people have suggested this. I need to sort this out. I have also never tried running a single operation in a program from the controller. It's high time I figured out that process.
I think the NYC CNC guys found that puting blue painter's tape on the parts, then super gluing the tape faces together works well. You might liook for their video on that topic.
They've done it both ways. The purpose of the tape is to make removal easier for large parts. I've used that method, but was concerned that it would not be strong enough for D2. Given the results I got, it might be worth trying.
I was wondering why you didn't make the tool as an insert. Use 4140 flat bar for the frame and silver solder a carbide bit for the actual cutting edge. I liked the machining process.
I considered it, but decided not to go that direction because the original was one piece, and I was concerned that the inevitable misalignment of the brazed-on insert would make the part harder to hold for grinding.
Do you think some sacrificial shims between the matrix and the blade (say Teflon) might work to eliminate the wear on the matrix?
It would probably reduce the effectiveness of the shearing action.
Stick a carbide rod into your spindle and you'll be able to do friction stir welding!
Proof of concept. :)
Where did you get the heat treat foil?
McMaster-Carr was mentioned in the video.
McMaster-Carr
what is that bottle called you used for IPA?
It's commonly called a wash bottle.
I thought you were going to glue your vise closed. LOL
There was glue on the vise jaws, but they're really smooth, and you saw how well (poorly) the glue was holding. :)
If I had more than one to make I would have added in some fixturing and locating holes and made this two operations with a fixture with fasteners and pins for hold down. Not a criticism, just what I would have done.
So... Drill and contour the inside and then use the holes to mount for the outside contour?
@@Clough42 Yes. If there isnt really an issue with debris getting into smaller holes nibbling then adding a few holes for locating and clamping on the body and head end shouldn't hurt functionality, and it'l look cool!
Ha, I use the 10X rule as well.
I think if you count the travel expenses to go visit Yuchol, 10X is about right. Though I got a lot of other benefits from the project, the time in the shop, and visiting a friend that I wouldn't have gotten by buying the part.
Hah! Melted a drill bit into titanium last night. Funny how the typos getcha. So there's a big difference between 1000 and 2000 rpm. I haven't pulled out a calculator yet, but it's gotta be close t double. Now I'll watch the reaming 39.12 of your video!
The issue wasn't the spindle speed in my case. It was the tool length. It thought there was another 2" or more of clearance and tried to rapid down into position. It also thought it had an end mill in the spindle, so even if it had survived the plunge, things would have gone badly when it started trying to side mill. :)
@@Clough42 I totally get that! It's funny, I go long stretches where I feel like mistakes like that are a thing of the past, and then it just jumps out and bites me. Pride before the fall I suppose. Still loving your work!
For sure. It's been a long time since I did something dumb like that.
Is this dude Canadian? I have never heard anyone saying 'PCB' as 'PC board'. Took me a while to realize he is not talking about 'PC boards', as in 'personal computer boards', but PCBs (printed circuit boards) instead... :)
Don't worry he knew you would say that
Growing up in Montana, we always said PC Board as well. Both Idaho and Montana border Canada… 😏
@@westweld Sorry, I don't understand. Who knew who would say what?
@@woodscreekworkshop9939 Interesting. Maybe it is a regional thing then. Granted, I was 'in teh industry' only for less than 20 years, from mid 90's on, but I cannot recall seeing/hearing this form ('PC board') ever.
Obviously, in scientific publications (and patents), you expand the abbreviation only once, and use the defined, shortest commonly known form thereafter. In lectures/speech, you'd always assume the audience knows the basics, so common terms like PCB never get expanded/explained.
PCB, PWB, Circiut Pack, PC Board, PWB, G10 Board, FR4 board, Board and others are all acceptable.
I believe it is a single acting spring return cylinder. Not double acting. The other port is used to vent the spring side of the cylinder
There is no spring. It's double-acting. The top port pushes it down. The bottom port pushes it up. You can see this clearly in the video.