PROS AND CONS OF ALL STARTER CHARACTERS PTS LUFFY P: - easy to use moves that are simple for what they do - excels on poking - two move oneshot combos - excels in pubs and 1v1s - agreesive and passive play style; leads to a more balanced learning process for starters - powerful mode that hits hard and can get free 2 stocks if used right C - unreliable zoning options, leading into more close range battles - most moves were nerfed, downgraded to do less damage or not combo extend - hard mechanics with some moves to keep them from damage dropping (Gatling, cough cough) Nameku P Easy to use moveset that can combo to oblivion A mini-mode that helps deal more damage in less time Mode deals alot of damage along with having simple oneshots, and is stellar in 1v1 scenarios C Base is terrible for turtlers having really only about technically one gb move that could combo extend and isn't obvious Has a harder time with multiple people, only having one move that can deal with it but that has a long cd Naruto (Early) P Has intense pressure, because of shadow clones and combo starts Is able to move spam to get lots of damage off Mode can give simple oneshots C Harder to use for combos, as you need a lot of aim, timing, and focus Kind of terrible on neutral Ichigo (soul society) P Has bigger move ranges, making moves easier to hit than others C Has harder combo routes, because most moves combo finish Is more of a tiny damage dealer and mode mostly sucks Johnathan joestar P Has simple combo extenders and starters, amazing damage output that racks up overtime Amazing against turtlers due to multiple gbing moves Mode has amazing damage output as well, taking about 1 stock if used correctly C Has a hard mechanic to have to breathe for better damage, which is terrible in neutral which restricts your m1s and movement Has little combo extenders that arent good if you dont get a combo start Overall sucks in neutral Tanjiro Kamado P Excels in dealing damage with mostly simple moves Somewhat simple tods Amazing mode, can take 2 stocks in seconds C More advanced like johnathan due to some moves that are confusing to use Hard combo starter's in neutral Deku P Excels also in gbing, excellent for turtlers Amazing mode that has an easy one shot C Hard time in neutral or punishing without going against turtlers Isnt as stellar with damage output in combos, mostly a move spammer like Sadly removed due to gamefam Btw if i missed anything be sure to reply down below whats wrong with my pros and cons
Really high quality video, not even in just "ABATuber" standards, just in general. Hope to see you make more content like this on other characters. Also learned a few techs off this regarding his awakening because, like you, I forgot angry kamehameha lacks endlag and its hitbox is large as the seven suns. In any case, dope video.
S tier content, keep it up. And btw moves like dragon combo that don't get cancelled or knocked back even are called Super armour moves. Other examples are Jotaro's Ora
im pretty sure super armor and hyper are the same - the difference is that super armor has a limit (i.e. can only take a certain number of hits/ has a damage threshold before it gets canceled) while hyper armor never gets cancelled no matter what damage is taken (with an exception for, like, grabs maybe)
@@cheeriok No, you have it backwards. Hyper armor takes no knockback, super armor does. This guy's just never heard of hyper armor before so he doesn't know what else to call it.
I've been a namek goku main for years and I didn't even know you could incorporate kaioken into combos without upflinging into a beam. Just earned a new sub from me, if you dont mind me asking, can you do more videos like this?
Instead of doing bare ass videos which everyone does that basically are "i click ranked, i click 1v1 i win thats the video bye" u actually evolved, thats very nice
yeah it is hard, don't worry it's not nerfed or anything its just practice :) and if you think you have it slightly consistent in training, it'll definitely be more consistent in ranked because people have ping but dummies dont (same logic as tsb)
been using him for a while, he is extremely flexible with techs, like canceling the last hit of kaioken dragon combo and straight up hitting a TRUE raw kame because of how much stun it has... or uplifting rush into kaioken also work and u can get nasty combos with it. And yeah i just found an easy tech to extend with kame.
@@cheeriok oh i knew that one i thought he was talking about the music that you put on the 2 last matches, i knew it was from sonic mania, but didn't knew what was it, but nvm i found it
5:50 as goku main with gold skin i can say that dragon combo and regular m1 got pretty similay animation so i sometimes confusing people with that move like "HA ITS NOT M1!!" as for me , people always getting angry after this move Also goku s tier for ever
this is fire but kame can extend as well tho its really jank and inconsistent(4m1, on 4th m1 180 and spam kame u gotta be real close for the small shield hitbox for the beams they added a long time ago to hit the opponent, then mash dash and m1 to catch, its really inconsistent though and you have to aim slightly down) other than that good video also pts goku is slept on starter character but then again he's facing off against pts lufy
Was hoping the 1 shots off of Rush or Dragon Combo would stay hidden but it is what it is. Great video, but I'd still say Naruto is a better starter character and arguably one of the best 1v1 characters in the game. Literally infinite pressure in neutral with clones and clone throw, and can 1 shot off of either skill because his cooldowns are so low. Only thing holding him back is mode and it's still an almost guaranteed stock stealer.
sorry for opening the gate, and yeah i do agree naruto is very strong i just prefer goku lol since his dragon combo almost beats all neutral options (such as the clones)
@cheeriok That's fair, I much prefer Goku too. Kaioken variant extensions will always be some of the coolest tech in the game. Naruto just has an almost entirely upgraded kit and doesn't have to rely on a gimmick.
Naruto really isnt that good honestly, as you said his mode isnt that good, especially since it has zero combo starters, and his base has pretty much zero combo starters as well, unless your opponent doesn't know how to block. If you are good at getting m1s narutos great, but goku has probably the best starters in game, whether it be base or awakening
@@Klextr000 Naruto's starters are just as good as Goku's if not better. Clones can be used in the exact same way as rush, but it's completely unpunishable. Clone throw is a free pressure tool that forces the opponent to block and leaves you right on top of them, and is once again completely unpunishable. Pair that with his stupidly low cooldowns and you have a character with near infinite, unpunishable pressure in neutral. Naruto uses clone throw and you're forced to block. He's now in your face while you're blocking and ready to M1. All he needs to do is land an M1 or react to yours and use clones and you just die for it.
@@Oeply while i do agree with some of the points you made, naruto's combo starters aren't as like "you can't beat them!" as you think they are. other people have moves too and they definitely won't just keep blocking
@@cheeriok You don't really have to try with ichigo and if u wanted you could just spam getsuga tenshou. PTS Naruto is a well rounded character while goku is easy to just counter compared to them
@@kingchrono2011 okay, you can just shut off your brain for every character, it's just that ichigo doesn't have a high skill ceiling to begin with soo... and why do you say that goku is easy to counter compared to naruto?
@@cheeriok Because you can literally just hold block against his character and his only viable gaurdbreak is his dragon combo while naruto can abuse his 4th move to use it directly into rasengan or fly to them and hit behind their block and ichigo is just braindead and has been since release
@@kingchrono2011 okay ichigo is easy to play and braindead but not necessarily good, no one combo no evasive no s no evasives, yeah u got the point yeah you can hold block against goku, but you can't do anything back to goku because he has that dragon combo and the rush. if your opponent has any sort of superarmor or damage trading move whatsoever, you're completely done for on naruto since he has no way of getting past block besides that rasengan, which doesn't even start a combo and naruto does NOT hit you when he does rasengan+throw, the tracking is really wonky and you end up overshooting 90% of the time. and if you say "yeah but the map might be small so its hard to miss rasengan" that just improves goku's argument more since he has a much easier time getting up close and personal. goku excels at being close to the opponent and m1 trading where naruto is just pretty good at close combat
@@cheeriok deku never had to play smart, he could just show up and guardbreak 120-0 you with his 3 extenders at least you can hold F against namek goku tbh
@@313dz 1. not needing to play smart to win =/= good character and 2. what if i just press dragon combo or anyone other slightly long hyperarmor move against deku
@@cheeriok low difficulty makes a character good if it works well enough. the problem is deku doesn't need to get close enough for dragon combo when he has faster spirit gun and saitama normal punch in base form
@@313dz i'm a little confused about the "saitama normal punch in base form" that you speak of. the move does require your opponent to be right in front of you to land, does it not? but anyways. since the addition of map banning the strategy with the fast spirit gun you mention is definitely hurt, so i'll talk about when there was no map banning (when deku was in the game). deku has one neutral move, sure, so his neutral is decently strong. the issue is it's just ONE move. leap is arguable as a gap closer, but deku doesn't benefit like crazy from being close anyway, since he can just spam spirit guns so his ranged aspect is actually pretty strong. deku's "saitama normal punch" and his side kick move both act as combo extenders, so they are really hard to use until you get your opponent in a combo. do you see the issue deku has that goku doesn't? goku may have no ranged moves or zoning tools, but he is still good because his other tools compensate for that. tp dashes in base, two extenders, and one combo ender (which can potentially be used as a ranged move if u catch ur opponent double jumping). deku on the other hand, has 1 ranged move and 3 extenders that are basically only there for the sole purpose of extending, meaning he's extremely niche as a one combo merchant. that is where i find that goku is better. if you match goku against every other character in the game, he will definitely have more favorable matchups or characters that he can work around compared to deku. then again, i am no deku expert and since he is no longer in the game i can not test his hyperarmors/superarmors or his postivity, so feel free to tell me how any of deku's other moves (saitama normal punch, side kick, and leap) can be used other than the ways that i mentioned.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
PROS AND CONS OF ALL STARTER CHARACTERS
PTS LUFFY
P:
- easy to use moves that are simple for what they do
- excels on poking
- two move oneshot combos
- excels in pubs and 1v1s
- agreesive and passive play style; leads to a more balanced learning process for starters
- powerful mode that hits hard and can get free 2 stocks if used right
C
- unreliable zoning options, leading into more close range battles
- most moves were nerfed, downgraded to do less damage or not combo extend
- hard mechanics with some moves to keep them from damage dropping (Gatling, cough cough)
Nameku
P
Easy to use moveset that can combo to oblivion
A mini-mode that helps deal more damage in less time
Mode deals alot of damage along with having simple oneshots, and is stellar in 1v1 scenarios
C
Base is terrible for turtlers having really only about technically one gb move that could combo extend and isn't obvious
Has a harder time with multiple people, only having one move that can deal with it but that has a long cd
Naruto (Early)
P
Has intense pressure, because of shadow clones and combo starts
Is able to move spam to get lots of damage off
Mode can give simple oneshots
C
Harder to use for combos, as you need a lot of aim, timing, and focus
Kind of terrible on neutral
Ichigo (soul society)
P
Has bigger move ranges, making moves easier to hit than others
C
Has harder combo routes, because most moves combo finish
Is more of a tiny damage dealer and mode mostly sucks
Johnathan joestar
P
Has simple combo extenders and starters, amazing damage output that racks up overtime
Amazing against turtlers due to multiple gbing moves
Mode has amazing damage output as well, taking about 1 stock if used correctly
C
Has a hard mechanic to have to breathe for better damage, which is terrible in neutral which restricts your m1s and movement
Has little combo extenders that arent good if you dont get a combo start
Overall sucks in neutral
Tanjiro Kamado
P
Excels in dealing damage with mostly simple moves
Somewhat simple tods
Amazing mode, can take 2 stocks in seconds
C
More advanced like johnathan due to some moves that are confusing to use
Hard combo starter's in neutral
Deku
P
Excels also in gbing, excellent for turtlers
Amazing mode that has an easy one shot
C
Hard time in neutral or punishing without going against turtlers
Isnt as stellar with damage output in combos, mostly a move spammer like
Sadly removed due to gamefam
Btw if i missed anything be sure to reply down below whats wrong with my pros and cons
i LOVE this type of "explanation" videos, they're so nice and the editing is awesome, keep it up!
I love Moldy's editing, and it's really fits ABA content as well.
Who’s moldy?
@@Youijborri9 MoldyBagel is a Dragon Ball FighterZ YTer, who's editing style Cheerio used in this video.
@ oh okay ty
Really high quality video, not even in just "ABATuber" standards, just in general. Hope to see you make more content like this on other characters. Also learned a few techs off this regarding his awakening because, like you, I forgot angry kamehameha lacks endlag and its hitbox is large as the seven suns. In any case, dope video.
Dude, you've earned my attention, i really like the moldy bagel editing, very fitting. Genuinely enjoyed the content. Thanks for covering my goat. ❤
S tier content, keep it up. And btw moves like dragon combo that don't get cancelled or knocked back even are called Super armour moves. Other examples are Jotaro's Ora
oooh i see, thank you! so hyperarmor would be moves that don't get cancelled but knockbacked
Or sabers sweeping blow
im pretty sure super armor and hyper are the same - the difference is that super armor has a limit (i.e. can only take a certain number of hits/ has a damage threshold before it gets canceled) while hyper armor never gets cancelled no matter what damage is taken (with an exception for, like, grabs maybe)
@@randomelsen9891 there are definitly some moves which can be knocked back but not cancelled, thats the difference such as pts luffy's barrage
@@cheeriok No, you have it backwards. Hyper armor takes no knockback, super armor does. This guy's just never heard of hyper armor before so he doesn't know what else to call it.
please dont tell goku im strong 🙏😭
dont worry ill just tell trunks that u said he was the juicebox 😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈
@@cheeriok Him & Jonathan are tied for me
*knock* *knock* *knock* "Hey! It's me, Vegito! I heard you were almost as strong as Lord Beerus, so me and Vegeta fused and went blue!
I've been a namek goku main for years and I didn't even know you could incorporate kaioken into combos without upflinging into a beam. Just earned a new sub from me, if you dont mind me asking, can you do more videos like this?
yeah of course i will do more vids! i love making them lol and thanks for subbing up
Instead of doing bare ass videos which everyone does that basically are "i click ranked, i click 1v1 i win thats the video bye" u actually evolved, thats very nice
Shut up 😭
yeah thanks, i know i used to watch those ranked videos but i got bored and i knew others did too so i made this lol
im struggling to connect the combo after downslamming with the kaioken rush because they just get sent up
yeah it is hard, don't worry it's not nerfed or anything its just practice :) and if you think you have it slightly consistent in training, it'll definitely be more consistent in ranked because people have ping but dummies dont (same logic as tsb)
been using him for a while, he is extremely flexible with techs, like canceling the last hit of kaioken dragon combo and straight up hitting a TRUE raw kame because of how much stun it has...
or uplifting rush into kaioken also work and u can get nasty combos with it.
And yeah i just found an easy tech to extend with kame.
How do you extend with kame
atleast tell us the tech
@@mj19isawsome ill make a video about it soon sometime, either sub or ill try and let you know.
underrated as hell keep the good quality stuff ur bound to blow up
Your actually really good. I love moldy bagel's guide line style too
Let’s gooo just made you 600 subs!
woooooo
This video is really really well put together, could you please do one about dio
i'll have to brush up on my dio skills before that though, been a hot while since i've played him but yeah i will eventually he's really interesting
your content is clean af ma boi
this video is fire. Can you pls make a krillin vid. I think he is very underrated. ( my bald king)
Not even 5 minutes in and I'm already loving the content. What other fighting games (outside of Roblox) do you play?
hi thank you! i play db fighterz occasionally, sometimes brawlhalla, and thats really it (unless u count dragon ball legends which is a mobile game)
W intro song, very cultured. Love fool a banger.
yessss thank you
amazing editing I wish i was this good when I still uploaded
We have been waiting for this video for a long time, glad it finally came out!
PLEASE cover base vegeta, idk how to use half his moves and you seem pretty good at this game xd
Holy underrated 🗣🔥
yo we got aba moldybagel now? im all for it really
im rottendonut
nice video bro, i got a question tho. whats your editing software?
thank you! uhhh for now i'm actually using capcut (its free) but i plan to move to adobe premiere when i hopefully am able to monetize videos
@ ohh damnnn your quality mad good, thx btw!
@@cheeriokpremier pro is free too, i can show you how dude i love the vid
counter moves on the second kaioken rush attack be like
I was already putting bro in A-S tier on tier lists without knowing half this shit😭
nice instumental at the end! peak song
YESSS you recognized!!!!!
Hi killua
What it is?
@Lopes.06 see you again by tyler the creator
@@cheeriok oh i knew that one i thought he was talking about the music that you put on the 2 last matches, i knew it was from sonic mania, but didn't knew what was it, but nvm i found it
Note: kaioken dragon combo extender got nerfed, it doesn't extend anymore
5:50 as goku main with gold skin i can say that dragon combo and regular m1 got pretty similay animation so i sometimes confusing people with that move like "HA ITS NOT M1!!" as for me , people always getting angry after this move
Also goku s tier for ever
yeah it doe slook similar
we got an aba moldybagel now just pray he’s more consistent 🙏
@@kapitoltakeover maaaaybe well see
Thats the best guide aba vid ever 🥶🥶🥶
Please do more videos like these for more characters
close enough, welcome back moldybagel
they call me the rottendonut
Why’d you reupload this video
old one didnt have ranked footage + some layering got messed up
so much information this is quality
DON'T LET DEV SEE THIS
I was permabanned from the ABA discord for spamming @Clown back in the day
pts sanji Have a really broken tech if you jump on Somebody head use 2 You go up with them Directly into the 3 Down use 1 and it a one shot combo
MOLDY EDITTING STYLE, PEAAAK!! ‼‼‼‼💥💥💥💥💥💥
this is fire but kame can extend as well tho its really jank and inconsistent(4m1, on 4th m1 180 and spam kame u gotta be real close for the small shield hitbox for the beams they added a long time ago to hit the opponent, then mash dash and m1 to catch, its really inconsistent though and you have to aim slightly down)
other than that good video
also pts goku is slept on starter character but then again he's facing off against pts lufy
Pts luffy is nowhere near as good as pts goku idk why you even mentioned him
Do one about guts please
appreciate the content
u can m1 at the same time as using the super rush in mode for an unblockable combo starter
oh dang, thats cool didnt know that
sick video please do more
yes
I mean I guess i'll watch it again then 🔥
Do more like this pls
00:30 soundtrack?
windmill isle (day) - sonic unleashed
Wait til bro learns about the one combo off kaioken rush
wait wait 😭
what editing tool do you use?
capcut
@cheeriok wow
@@zoryvjenish is that a good or bad wow
@@cheeriok it's good
@@zoryvjenish oh okay thank you lol
moldybagel is back! in a way.
this editing is so peak
appreciate it
Hi killua
keep on cooking bro you got 300 within 2 days
trust me bro i am (kinda)
Im a real one i KNOW this is a reupload "I didnt look at your last video"
he knows (he a real one)
W bros gaining so much subs fast❤❤❤🎉
300 SUBS!!🎉🎉❤
lets goooooo
What a popular video it is!
Was hoping the 1 shots off of Rush or Dragon Combo would stay hidden but it is what it is. Great video, but I'd still say Naruto is a better starter character and arguably one of the best 1v1 characters in the game. Literally infinite pressure in neutral with clones and clone throw, and can 1 shot off of either skill because his cooldowns are so low. Only thing holding him back is mode and it's still an almost guaranteed stock stealer.
sorry for opening the gate, and yeah i do agree naruto is very strong i just prefer goku lol since his dragon combo almost beats all neutral options (such as the clones)
@cheeriok That's fair, I much prefer Goku too. Kaioken variant extensions will always be some of the coolest tech in the game. Naruto just has an almost entirely upgraded kit and doesn't have to rely on a gimmick.
Naruto really isnt that good honestly, as you said his mode isnt that good, especially since it has zero combo starters, and his base has pretty much zero combo starters as well, unless your opponent doesn't know how to block. If you are good at getting m1s narutos great, but goku has probably the best starters in game, whether it be base or awakening
@@Klextr000 Naruto's starters are just as good as Goku's if not better. Clones can be used in the exact same way as rush, but it's completely unpunishable. Clone throw is a free pressure tool that forces the opponent to block and leaves you right on top of them, and is once again completely unpunishable.
Pair that with his stupidly low cooldowns and you have a character with near infinite, unpunishable pressure in neutral. Naruto uses clone throw and you're forced to block. He's now in your face while you're blocking and ready to M1. All he needs to do is land an M1 or react to yours and use clones and you just die for it.
@@Oeply while i do agree with some of the points you made, naruto's combo starters aren't as like "you can't beat them!" as you think they are. other people have moves too and they definitely won't just keep blocking
Do android saga vegeta next since hes actually one of the funnest chars in the game (imo)
yeah he's interesting for sure, but he might have to wait til later since i got a stark video planned rn 👀
Wow this is amazing, how long did it take you to edit the entire thing?
uhhh including my endless slacking off and playing fisch like 2 weeks but actual editting time not sure maybe 13 hours?
you should do blue goku next fr
song at 10:49?
my castle town by toby fox (from deltarune) goated song
@@cheeriok 🐐🐐thanks g
@@bruhmomentbruhmoment29 gotchu
now u woke up to 200
yessirrr
music name in 11:36
sonic CD - stardust speedway bad future
probably the most well-edited aba video i've seen, god knows how long this would've taken you. earned a sub
2:18 is peak
monkeys
Kid naruto pts luffy???
tired of hearing this argument maybe i should put my defense in the video next time thanks for the feedback
Bro started of with nameku then gohan cell saga then I got vegito
Nameku was the most fun cuz of his kaioken
wait so u re uploaded because i said dont disrespect goku black?
well i reuploaded because of some layering issues but i slided in ranked footage + goku black cuz you and another guy wanted them
Please cover buu goku / Goku (End)
Since he was remade I have yet to even try him.. but ik he can be obnoxious
what, reploud?
holy peak
if deku was still around
respectfully no goku is better
sorry i said the wrong franchise im so sorry forgive me it was late at night dont smite me please
Please cover might guy
maybe in the future, he's pretty interesting with the snowball effect he has
i really hope they dont overnerf him like the other characters
REAL
Bro got 200 subs in a day 😭🙏
and bro woke up with more subs than me lol
Hey its me goku 😄
who needs a brain when you can just sue goku
-nameku main
goku's not as brainless as you think (or at least compared to some characters LOL)
A saiyan pure of heart, awakened by fury thats who he is. I AM THE NERFED STARTER! SON GOKUUUU!
(deserved nerf legit 2 moves was a 100-0)
Giờ Goku mạnh thật,ngày xưa Goku weak bấy nhiêu now strongers, ghê thật.
Yo lowk i FW this youtube channels music taste FRFR
isane char
Now do TS Luffy, I know his mode is a demon in 2s 🤣😂
bro isnt getting copyrighted?
owner allows content to be used on youtube 👍
@@cheeriok fr? Lovefool, a song from a band on which UMG is reponsible for handling, is okay with people on youtube using their music?
@@advøcacies yup
black goku rework and the other caracters? probaly never
MAKE A PUI PUI GUIDE!!!!
NO!!!!
6:03
bro leaked the sauce
i am the ungater of all time
hi i saw ur videos but i see that ur thum nails aren't good if u want me to i can make them for u for free
Pts luffy>>
nah lol
let's be real luffy is the best starter character he's so braindead 😭
PTS Naruto and Ichigo are better lol but namek goku is strong
ummm... both i dont think are stronger but at least pts naruto is arguable how is ichigo better??
@@cheeriok You don't really have to try with ichigo and if u wanted you could just spam getsuga tenshou. PTS Naruto is a well rounded character while goku is easy to just counter compared to them
@@kingchrono2011 okay, you can just shut off your brain for every character, it's just that ichigo doesn't have a high skill ceiling to begin with soo... and why do you say that goku is easy to counter compared to naruto?
@@cheeriok Because you can literally just hold block against his character and his only viable gaurdbreak is his dragon combo while naruto can abuse his 4th move to use it directly into rasengan or fly to them and hit behind their block and ichigo is just braindead and has been since release
@@kingchrono2011 okay ichigo is easy to play and braindead but not necessarily good, no one combo no evasive no s no evasives, yeah u got the point
yeah you can hold block against goku, but you can't do anything back to goku because he has that dragon combo and the rush. if your opponent has any sort of superarmor or damage trading move whatsoever, you're completely done for on naruto since he has no way of getting past block besides that rasengan, which doesn't even start a combo and naruto does NOT hit you when he does rasengan+throw, the tracking is really wonky and you end up overshooting 90% of the time. and if you say "yeah but the map might be small so its hard to miss rasengan" that just improves goku's argument more since he has a much easier time getting up close and personal. goku excels at being close to the opponent and m1 trading where naruto is just pretty good at close combat
deku better
i don't think this is the case, but even if it is, deku is no longer in the game 🤷
@@cheeriok deku never had to play smart, he could just show up and guardbreak 120-0 you with his 3 extenders
at least you can hold F against namek goku tbh
@@313dz 1. not needing to play smart to win =/= good character and 2. what if i just press dragon combo or anyone other slightly long hyperarmor move against deku
@@cheeriok low difficulty makes a character good if it works well enough. the problem is deku doesn't need to get close enough for dragon combo when he has faster spirit gun and saitama normal punch in base form
@@313dz i'm a little confused about the
"saitama normal punch in base form" that you speak of. the move does require your opponent to be right in front of you to land, does it not? but anyways. since the addition of map banning the strategy with the fast spirit gun you mention is definitely hurt, so i'll talk about when there was no map banning (when deku was in the game). deku has one neutral move, sure, so his neutral is decently strong. the issue is it's just ONE move. leap is arguable as a gap closer, but deku doesn't benefit like crazy from being close anyway, since he can just spam spirit guns so his ranged aspect is actually pretty strong. deku's "saitama normal punch" and his side kick move both act as combo extenders, so they are really hard to use until you get your opponent in a combo. do you see the issue deku has that goku doesn't? goku may have no ranged moves or zoning tools, but he is still good because his other tools compensate for that. tp dashes in base, two extenders, and one combo ender (which can potentially be used as a ranged move if u catch ur opponent double jumping). deku on the other hand, has 1 ranged move and 3 extenders that are basically only there for the sole purpose of extending, meaning he's extremely niche as a one combo merchant. that is where i find that goku is better. if you match goku against every other character in the game, he will definitely have more favorable matchups or characters that he can work around compared to deku. then again, i am no deku expert and since he is no longer in the game i can not test his hyperarmors/superarmors or his postivity, so feel free to tell me how any of deku's other moves (saitama normal punch, side kick, and leap) can be used other than the ways that i mentioned.
he isnt