The smaller your bet size the more value oriented it must be. It’s pretty tough to get a worse hand to call on a run out like this. Personally in low stakes life games I feel if you aren’t value owning yourself at least once then you’re playing too passive. I think this is an acceptable spot to target two pair.
How about just to decide on the flop how we want to proceed? Should we just use two streets approach? For example bet flop 180-190 and let's say pot would be then 565 (205 + 360) and if the turn is blank as it was this time, then just overbet 1,3x pot? And sure this would be even better line if the hero didn't have the ten of diamonds.
Only maniacs bluff into one liners. 💯 The "hero" is just flushing money here. Just check and lose the minimum. That's rice paper thin to try to get value from worse on a one liner.
You guys never bother to mention villain's table image, is he a good player, tight player, Pro ect, that's one of the most important factors in analyzing any hand I respect Bart Hansens game , I'm shocked that he never mentions villains image, or did you just sit down and have no idea how he plays, it's only one of the most important parts of the the player not the cards if this guy was a loose idiot that changes everything!!!
I’ve seen plenty of these videos where the villain’s table image is discussed in detail. Most of these analysis videos they discuss the image, Bart also asks the hero what their perceived table image is.
I play with a guy who basically thinks being a nit all night is the way to go, because at the end of the night he can bluff up some money… and it works for him if you don’t know what he’s doing
If anything, the opposite should be true. Get caught bluffing early, then get paid the rest of the night. As the night increases, people lose focus and sharpness as well, which allows for reaching calls and bad plays WAY more often than at the beginning of the night. But to each their own... 🤪
We will have to agree to disagree. I think getting caught early can set up for a huge win later when ppl are more likely to gamble, either from being down, or just playing too many hands.
The nit strategy may allow you to sit in the game longer on average (less chance of busting) but it will NEVER win the most money in the long run. Plus it’s boring AF…
Any semi-aware player would never bluff shove or overvalue two pair on this river after a block bet. The great thing about this is you can make an extremely exploitative fold to a shove, as long as your bet isn't too small. A $50-100 bet very well might get A5dd or something to shove, but villain would have to be crazy to shove a worse hand after a $200 bet.
In my personal experience playing at Harrah's in New Orleans, any player who starts with a biggish stack(1500+) always shove over blocker bets. They see it as always weakness which I know is weird lol
Ya but an aware player (not semi) would realize that a Q never bets a small size on the river because it would just shove, and you can bluff against the block bet knowing they have no nuts in their range. If you have a read on the block bet and that the player is the type to fold in that spot it can turn into a decent bluff.
The play in the video is Bart's favorite "Small Stakes Exploit": Thin value-betting while being visibly "pot committed" , with the clear intention to fold to a Shove, as the spot is at that level clearly under-bluffed; about everybody expects Hero to call. - But, of course, as with all exploitative, non-"optimal", strategies, it can become subject to being exploited itself. 😉
Definitely not pot stuck after river block bet, you're beat 99% of the time when you get raised on the river in 2-5 in this exact situation. TBH I play 10-20 and I would never bluff raise this spot, secret exploit vs me, I'm not balanced here, have at it!
This was a nice hand to learn , I’d rather check on the flop, and maybe check raise, bet turn shove river . Or check call maybe raise on turn or river . But regarles sick cooler
Bart, I recall you mentioning on some of your videos here about your training site. I know you went through a lot of small stakes exploits, but I remember you talking about playing in these "juicy" games with wild players that some ppl claim it's too hard to play because they can end up on the river with any 2 cards. Before I sign up, do you go over strategies against these types of games on your site?
I like blocking the river, but I'd probably bet smaller. $120 bet should get called by all 2 pairs and maybe some Ax. If we get raised, we can fold pretty easily.
Too much. 1 opponent... He is not going to fold any draws, which likely would be either a strong Combo draw, or already a better hand (KK, JJ, AQ, Q9). Betting huge on a terrible board brings terrible result most of the time. So: it's scheduled to lose on long run. . If V is weak, even small bet on this board would've made him folded. . So, yes: you made a point: terrible flop bet size.
Hero loses to everything once the Ace comes on the river, he either has a higher set or pocket QQ for the straight. Cooler but at least you lost minimum 🤙🏼
@@rhpmike not good to bet river: 1. It's a 3bet pot. Even with a speculative hand, it's not going to be 45d, A3d, 77, or a similar crap. So, Q is very likely to be part of V range here. Particularly Qd!! 2. V called 3 streets large bet!! Fact. So, expect a monster hand (or nothing) on river!! A bottom set in this scenario is far from monster hand. 3. V range is V profile dependant (I have no clue about his profile). So: worst case scenario applies: Tight Passive!! 😢 4. Even with those losing hands possiblity, the situation is against H. Not many of those hands would call a river bet, AXd would pay nothing to river bet...so, it's only left to rely on KJ. After A hits river, not even KJ would call anything. Unless, V is a lunatic. 5. No AK. AK would played it differently before river. . Conclusion: river bet is a lose-lose bet. . Last edit: 7 min after posting.
@@pot_kivach160 Good conversation. Some responses. 1. I think it can definitely be some of those hands preflop, but I agree those likely aren't going to continue being a large part of his hand. But those are none of the hands I suggested he could have. Why can't he have AK, KJ, KT, JT, etc? If you're giving him queens, what queens are you giving him besides AQ and QQ? If he can have KQ or QJ or QT or Q9, then he can have any of the hands I listed. 2. Preflop was 4x from oop, so that is standard. Then we had 63% pot and 43% pot. I just disagree that this is a monster or nothing. I do agree that bottom set isn't a monster on this board though. But again, he bet 29% pot on the river. He is targeting plenty of 2-pair hands with this sizing, and as bart says, could even get called from a single pair NFD. 3. lol agree that we know nothing about V 4. This is the key part of our disagreement, I think. I disagree that you have to be a lunatic to call a 29% pot bet with less than middle set. You only have to be good here 18% of the time to make a call. Is AK, for example, in the bottom 18% of his range? If not, V, should be calling. 5. Is there anywhere you would have played AK different besides possibly 4betting pre? Different question for you: If our hero checks the river and then villain bets 250, are you folding TT?
@@rhpmike @5: AK supposed to raise turn. At least in my books. That's how I play... Although I've seen, it's a rare playing style in 2/5 game. BTW, AK calling all streets is tooo passive play even for passive players. So: no AK for V. No KJ either (I understand that V was trapping... Till he saw river card lol. Then he got scared, too). . I would fold to a $250 river bet. R1: if I'm ready to call $250, then I would bet it myself. R2: that is 50bb!! On this river and this hand context, any bet over 5bb I'm folding to. (that's how much I'm willing to pay to see the hand that beats me). Reason like: it's 4.5:1, does not hold any waters, in my books. (That reason is used by those who do not read opp hand strength). What's the point calling if I know I'm beat regardless of ratio. I read him strong, therefore I'm folding to his river bet. . Good conversation!
@@pot_kivach160 For what it is wroth, with AK solver has the villain correctly calling flop and turn and then always wants to call this bet on the river. I'm not saying we always have to play like the solver, but I wouldn't rule it out completely when it is the overwhelmingly preferred way. As far as what you'd call with as hero if he checks, you're definitely opening yourself up to be bluffed. This isn't that bad in most live games (particularly lower stake games) because people don't bluff enough. Appreciate the discussion. Best of luck!
@@pot_kivach160 I don't think it is a must raise. With stack sizes the way they are, you can just accept that you're going to have some bad rivers. I just checked solver, and solver calls 75% and raises 25% as V on turn.
This is a crappy situarion. I dont think I would be able to value bet the river there unless I thought villian would most likely bluff. And even still, I think Im check folding there.
And he’s only a buy in deep. If they both have a lot of BB’s in front of them then sure it’s a hand you can get away from at times but rarely with just a buy in in front of you
I read somewhere that losing streaks can go on for a very long time, so only focus on the fact of getting money in good, but dam ..... After 5 months, you just wonder if it'll ever stop
you can never be good at poker if you think like this. Honestly by the flop, even considering the villains entire range and not just his specific hand, 90% of the time hero is either going to be good the entire board w villain drawing dead (if villain doesn’t have KK,JJ, or AQ) or hero’s drawing dead from the flop (villain has AQ,KK,JJ). The other 10% of the time villain has the nut flush draw (which loses 2/3 of the time) or he’s got either a single ace, single queen, or QQ (which from the flop that range probably has 33% chance to win by the river). So like 50% or more villain is drawing dead. 40% ish hero is drawing dead. And the last 10% of the time hero is winning most of the time still. My point is in this spot getting to the river has nothing to do about. it’s basically a weighted flip slightly in hero’s favor. And this time it landed heads instead of tails but he was lucky to still get away with like 30% of his stack. So it’s really not that bad. Especially if the next time he finds himself in this flip he fully stacks his opponent.
I think he is but a lot of libs are normal people - the ones who actually like Brandon are leftists, not exactly the same as a liberal anymore. A lot people in the middle just call themselves liberal. If they’re not blue-haired and fully invested their personal identity into a group, they probably don’t like Brandon
@@bookedroomer they want us to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. When the leftists start supporting the military industrial complex we should all be scared
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
Bart on bet/folding: "Some people forget to fold" lol. I've definitely done that. "Wait, I'm getting seven to one on a call? What a bargain!"
The smaller your bet size the more value oriented it must be. It’s pretty tough to get a worse hand to call on a run out like this. Personally in low stakes life games I feel if you aren’t value owning yourself at least once then you’re playing too passive. I think this is an acceptable spot to target two pair.
@@aheroictaxidriver3180 You are contradicting yourself
How about just to decide on the flop how we want to proceed? Should we just use two streets approach? For example bet flop 180-190 and let's say pot would be then 565 (205 + 360) and if the turn is blank as it was this time, then just overbet 1,3x pot? And sure this would be even better line if the hero didn't have the ten of diamonds.
Only maniacs bluff into one liners. 💯 The "hero" is just flushing money here. Just check and lose the minimum. That's rice paper thin to try to get value from worse on a one liner.
You guys never bother to mention villain's table image, is he a good player, tight player, Pro ect, that's one of the most important factors in analyzing any hand I respect Bart Hansens game , I'm shocked that he never mentions villains image, or did you just sit down and have no idea how he plays, it's only one of the most important parts of the the player not the cards if this guy was a loose idiot that changes everything!!!
I’ve seen plenty of these videos where the villain’s table image is discussed in detail. Most of these analysis videos they discuss the image, Bart also asks the hero what their perceived table image is.
Hey Bart for future reference parx casino is how it is spelled not park
Did Bart just open with "Let's go Brandon?"
haha i noticed that too, I don't think it was on accident either.
LGB
@@MyComedyStore im sure it was an accident. Bart is a liberal biden fan unfortunately
Yes. Yes he did. Best opening line ever.
Shameless republicans
More rake is better?
I play with a guy who basically thinks being a nit all night is the way to go, because at the end of the night he can bluff up some money… and it works for him if you don’t know what he’s doing
If anything, the opposite should be true. Get caught bluffing early, then get paid the rest of the night. As the night increases, people lose focus and sharpness as well, which allows for reaching calls and bad plays WAY more often than at the beginning of the night. But to each their own... 🤪
Trying to bluff fish in loose live games?
We will have to agree to disagree. I think getting caught early can set up for a huge win later when ppl are more likely to gamble, either from being down, or just playing too many hands.
The nit strategy may allow you to sit in the game longer on average (less chance of busting) but it will NEVER win the most money in the long run. Plus it’s boring AF…
@@dan22482 I just treat him like an old man.
Bart “pretty good, pretty good” Hanson
Any semi-aware player would never bluff shove or overvalue two pair on this river after a block bet. The great thing about this is you can make an extremely exploitative fold to a shove, as long as your bet isn't too small. A $50-100 bet very well might get A5dd or something to shove, but villain would have to be crazy to shove a worse hand after a $200 bet.
In my personal experience playing at Harrah's in New Orleans, any player who starts with a biggish stack(1500+) always shove over blocker bets. They see it as always weakness which I know is weird lol
Ya but an aware player (not semi) would realize that a Q never bets a small size on the river because it would just shove, and you can bluff against the block bet knowing they have no nuts in their range. If you have a read on the block bet and that the player is the type to fold in that spot it can turn into a decent bluff.
The play in the video is Bart's favorite "Small Stakes Exploit": Thin value-betting while being visibly "pot committed" , with the clear intention to fold to a Shove, as the spot is at that level clearly under-bluffed; about everybody expects Hero to call. - But, of course, as with all exploitative, non-"optimal", strategies, it can become subject to being exploited itself. 😉
Every other video is titled 'This strategy will make you a winning player.' and I've watched all of them, but I'm still losing my whitey tighties off.
Follow this strategy "Hit great cards while opponents hit 2nd best to yours" youre welcome!
Neve confuse a memo with reality! 😂🐔
Did Bart really open the video with "Let's Go Brandon"??? xD
Is worst than tens calling a river bet though?I rather check/call
Definitely not pot stuck after river block bet, you're beat 99% of the time when you get raised on the river in 2-5 in this exact situation. TBH I play 10-20 and I would never bluff raise this spot, secret exploit vs me, I'm not balanced here, have at it!
What is this river bet? Spew!
Terrible!
This was a nice hand to learn , I’d rather check on the flop, and maybe check raise, bet turn shove river . Or check call maybe raise on turn or river . But regarles sick cooler
Bart, I recall you mentioning on some of your videos here about your training site. I know you went through a lot of small stakes exploits, but I remember you talking about playing in these "juicy" games with wild players that some ppl claim it's too hard to play because they can end up on the river with any 2 cards.
Before I sign up, do you go over strategies against these types of games on your site?
You don’t need Bart’s strategies to beat those games. Play stronger ranges than the donkeys and you will win.
Tough luck there man.
UnLuck?? That was a terrible play. Variance are normal part of the game.
The best thing about losing is that you learn. The second best thing about losing is that it's the second best feeling after winning.
If you enjoy your pain, then yes. It's great to lose.
I wouldnt be trying to get all the money in the pot with that hand. Should be checking or betting small.
I was the one with the JJ not 4 betting pre flop 😂
fish
I like blocking the river, but I'd probably bet smaller. $120 bet should get called by all 2 pairs and maybe some Ax. If we get raised, we can fold pretty easily.
What do you guys think about betting $120?
Too much. 1 opponent... He is not going to fold any draws, which likely would be either a strong Combo draw, or already a better hand (KK, JJ, AQ, Q9).
Betting huge on a terrible board brings terrible result most of the time. So: it's scheduled to lose on long run.
.
If V is weak, even small bet on this board would've made him folded.
.
So, yes: you made a point: terrible flop bet size.
A may have saved the caller $$ - a blank river and you have to call an all-in
These call in cooler hands are pretty worthless, especially when isee them coming a mile away.
It was such a terrible flop for set of 10s. He donked off with it.
I wonder if villain folds to a river jam.
no, but maybe to a check raise jam on the flop.
it’s the only way sb can win this hand.
If we are turning TT into a bluff here then we are going to have way too many bluffs on this river.
I would have checked call the river.
Why? Do you think V is bluffing a lot? Or, do you think that V is going to be value betting hands that he'd fold to a bet?
Hero loses to everything once the Ace comes on the river, he either has a higher set or pocket QQ for the straight. Cooler but at least you lost minimum 🤙🏼
Why are villain's hands only AA, KK, QQ, and JJ? He can't have AK, KJ, KT, JT, AJ, AXdd?
@@rhpmike
not good to bet river:
1. It's a 3bet pot. Even with a speculative hand, it's not going to be 45d, A3d, 77, or a similar crap. So, Q is very likely to be part of V range here. Particularly Qd!!
2. V called 3 streets large bet!! Fact. So, expect a monster hand (or nothing) on river!! A bottom set in this scenario is far from monster hand.
3. V range is V profile dependant (I have no clue about his profile). So: worst case scenario applies: Tight Passive!! 😢
4. Even with those losing hands possiblity, the situation is against H. Not many of those hands would call a river bet, AXd would pay nothing to river bet...so, it's only left to rely on KJ. After A hits river, not even KJ would call anything. Unless, V is a lunatic.
5. No AK. AK would played it differently before river.
.
Conclusion: river bet is a lose-lose bet.
.
Last edit: 7 min after posting.
@@pot_kivach160 Good conversation. Some responses. 1. I think it can definitely be some of those hands preflop, but I agree those likely aren't going to continue being a large part of his hand. But those are none of the hands I suggested he could have. Why can't he have AK, KJ, KT, JT, etc? If you're giving him queens, what queens are you giving him besides AQ and QQ? If he can have KQ or QJ or QT or Q9, then he can have any of the hands I listed.
2. Preflop was 4x from oop, so that is standard. Then we had 63% pot and 43% pot. I just disagree that this is a monster or nothing. I do agree that bottom set isn't a monster on this board though. But again, he bet 29% pot on the river. He is targeting plenty of 2-pair hands with this sizing, and as bart says, could even get called from a single pair NFD.
3. lol agree that we know nothing about V
4. This is the key part of our disagreement, I think. I disagree that you have to be a lunatic to call a 29% pot bet with less than middle set. You only have to be good here 18% of the time to make a call. Is AK, for example, in the bottom 18% of his range? If not, V, should be calling.
5. Is there anywhere you would have played AK different besides possibly 4betting pre?
Different question for you: If our hero checks the river and then villain bets 250, are you folding TT?
@@rhpmike @5: AK supposed to raise turn. At least in my books. That's how I play... Although I've seen, it's a rare playing style in 2/5 game.
BTW, AK calling all streets is tooo passive play even for passive players. So: no AK for V. No KJ either (I understand that V was trapping... Till he saw river card lol. Then he got scared, too).
.
I would fold to a $250 river bet.
R1: if I'm ready to call $250, then I would bet it myself.
R2: that is 50bb!! On this river and this hand context, any bet over 5bb I'm folding to. (that's how much I'm willing to pay to see the hand that beats me).
Reason like: it's 4.5:1, does not hold any waters, in my books. (That reason is used by those who do not read opp hand strength). What's the point calling if I know I'm beat regardless of ratio. I read him strong, therefore I'm folding to his river bet.
.
Good conversation!
@@pot_kivach160 For what it is wroth, with AK solver has the villain correctly calling flop and turn and then always wants to call this bet on the river. I'm not saying we always have to play like the solver, but I wouldn't rule it out completely when it is the overwhelmingly preferred way.
As far as what you'd call with as hero if he checks, you're definitely opening yourself up to be bluffed. This isn't that bad in most live games (particularly lower stake games) because people don't bluff enough.
Appreciate the discussion. Best of luck!
Did the other guy play it perfectly ??
Could argue for a raise on the turn, but V's play seems basically fine to me.
@@rhpmike yes, raise a turn was must. So, the other guy was not perfect play.
@@pot_kivach160 I don't think it is a must raise. With stack sizes the way they are, you can just accept that you're going to have some bad rivers. I just checked solver, and solver calls 75% and raises 25% as V on turn.
Hahahahaha the subtle *Let's Go Brandon*
You're a beauty
Just a cooler.
This is a crappy situarion. I dont think I would be able to value bet the river there unless I thought villian would most likely bluff. And even still, I think Im check folding there.
Great point though with the block bet on the river, get value from all worse and then 100% know he has the Q when raised
Let’s go Brandonnnnnn lol! Don’t think he actually realized he said it lol
He’s lucky he didn’t get stacked. It’s set over set. Why are we making this calculus? Sometimes you lose in poker
And he’s only a buy in deep. If they both have a lot of BB’s in front of them then sure it’s a hand you can get away from at times but rarely with just a buy in in front of you
You know Joe Biden is bad when even Bart opens with LGB.
😂
I read somewhere that losing streaks can go on for a very long time, so only focus on the fact of getting money in good, but dam ..... After 5 months, you just wonder if it'll ever stop
You read it?! 😂🐔
The longer the hand goes the more likely I'll lose with my chronic bad luck. I'm happy to win a pot preflop or flop & it's over.
if you think you're lucky or think you're unlucky, you're correct either way. You're actually drawing bad luck to yourself
you can never be good at poker if you think like this. Honestly by the flop, even considering the villains entire range and not just his specific hand, 90% of the time hero is either going to be good the entire board w villain drawing dead (if villain doesn’t have KK,JJ, or AQ) or hero’s drawing dead from the flop (villain has AQ,KK,JJ). The other 10% of the time villain has the nut flush draw (which loses 2/3 of the time) or he’s got either a single ace, single queen, or QQ (which from the flop that range probably has 33% chance to win by the river). So like 50% or more villain is drawing dead. 40% ish hero is drawing dead. And the last 10% of the time hero is winning most of the time still.
My point is in this spot getting to the river has nothing to do about. it’s basically a weighted flip slightly in hero’s favor. And this time it landed heads instead of tails but he was lucky to still get away with like 30% of his stack. So it’s really not that bad. Especially if the next time he finds himself in this flip he fully stacks his opponent.
@@onthebeach8211 How does one draw bad luck to themself?
Let's go Brandon.....😅
The Let's go Brandon still has me laughing two minutes in.
Let’s go Brandon. Lol
"Let's go Brandon". 😂 I'm not betting that river.
Let’s go Brandon!
Did he just say let's go Brandon?
LGB!
LETS GO BRANDON lol. Love it Bart!
Let Brandon go
Let Go Brandon
"Let's go Brandon"...lol
“Let’s go Brandon” thought Bart was a lib lol
I think he is but a lot of libs are normal people - the ones who actually like Brandon are leftists, not exactly the same as a liberal anymore. A lot people in the middle just call themselves liberal. If they’re not blue-haired and fully invested their personal identity into a group, they probably don’t like Brandon
Bart is a closet libertarian who isn't ready to come out yet.
@@sportspokerguy3506 you think leftists like joe biden lmao
@@bookedroomer they want us to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. When the leftists start supporting the military industrial complex we should all be scared
@@sportspokerguy3506 But make no mistake...those are your tribe.
Let's Go Brandon I love that opening...