I just recently switched from g29 + office chair to new Logitech DD. It didn't really make me faster, but it did make it immediately easier to catch slides earlier and generally feel when things don't go your way. So I'd say it made my racing safer.
This is probably a common story in the sim racing community: I got the logitech wheel. Then I realized mounting it on the desk every time is a PITA and sitting in an office chair is like shooting a cannon out of a canoe, so I got a rig and a semi bucket seat, and it's perfect. But DD wheel and proper pedals is what costs the most. I'll wait for quite a bit more before I jump into such an investment. Have other priorities going on, and I want to see if I'll have the same amount of time and motivation to race in the long term, as I started less than a year ago, and got the rig in august.
this is my story 100%, but im on the t300 + t-lcm pedals, which are decent. It's just so convenient to jump into the rig and get straight to racing. And especially load cell pedals are a pain in the ass when sitting in a chair, there's just to much flex.
Thank you so much for making this video. when my t300 broke and had to strap on the g29 again i realized how much of a diference it made, and i know that with a dd it's even greater. Although with enough time you can match the times, the biggest difference comes in the race. It's very noticeable how much more effort is needed to mantain the same pace with the low end wheel compared to the high end. People nowadays believe that racing with a g29 vs a dd is equal grounds and is all skill, and even tho skill is almost all of it, when it comes to competing, the high end does give you that edge over the entry one, and in that fine level of competition it really counts. I also agree that the pedals and rig are the n1 priority, breaking is the hardest part of racing and that's what separates the good from the great.
I believe you. I am struggling with laptimes in terms of learning tracks and braking point etc. One day when I am very comfortable I will upgrade but I believe there are plenty of other areas to spend money and upgrade the setup outside of my g920. It's really not bad.. it's just not "ideal" just like 1080p isn't bad but it's not "ideal" like 4k. Most of us are aiming for better equipment but we have house notes and kids to feed lol one day I'll have a direct drive. I assume that does away with that feeling of gears turning when you turn the wheel?
I have a desk setup with the G29 and use a kitchen chair that doesn't roll and is a bit lower than my rolling chair and it's just fine. It's not moving around and it's mostly comfortable, though after hours of racing my hip starts hurting a little bit. A huge thing for me was to keep the pedals in place, I bought some anti slip rubber mats and the pedals are completely stable with it no matter how hard I push. The pedals really are ass though especially the brake, it's way too hard by default so I immediately removed the rubber stopper that's inside the spring and it's much better that way, however it's now detecting 100% input when in reality I've only pushed the pedal like 80% of the way, so I now use the clutch pedal to brake instead. Not gonna lie the thought of upgrading is very tempting especially the pedals plus I wouldn't mind shifters and handbrake either, oh and a bigger screen would be nice... but I've only had this thing for a few months and I want to focus on getting fast on skill first, not to mention being financially responsible, I don't want to fall into the trap of creating an endless money sink out of this hobby. Especially now that Jardier has shown me you can still get very good laptimes on the G29.
Thank you on behalf of 90% of your viewers who enjoy this game on the chair and such gear :D It's almost unbelievable that lap times were so close... If you will do same test but just on defaulut aggressive setup - then everything would be clear = it's all about SKILL. Cause so far we can still say that good setup > hardware ^^
Good video. The pedals and rig are probably the two most important part of a SIM setup. I started 13 months ago. I still use G29 wheel base and happy with it. For pedals however I use separate load cell pedals. They make the biggest difference. My pace and consistency have improved so much. I also got a proper rig to mount everything. All within last 13 months. I could not go back to non load cell pedals.
Your vids from months ago keep popping up feed.. I'm blessed! Honestly i did the same thing with my rig. I went from a thrustmaster tx something to a csl elite to a CSW with the clubsport pedals. Then about 3 years ago brought the DD2 with the TR1 profile rig from simlabs. My current rig TR1 CubeControls CSX2 Mclaren GT3 rim ( love it just as much as my CSX2 ) Formula V2 F1 edition ( orange one with forged carbon ) Replica Audi GT3 rim DD2 Heusinkveld Sprints TR edition Honestly comparing the wheelbases, the difference is a given, obviously the difference between a CSW, arguably the best belt driven base around to a DD2 blew my mind but It was my Heus pedals that opened my eyes, sure the extra details and so forth from a DD2 is amazing but the consistency i can get with my heus pedals and being able to dial them into being just perfect for me. I can't use lesser pedals anymore. It feels like having an important sixth sense abruptly taken away from me.
playing sims is expensive but its rewarding and you dont have to buy everything at once which is the beauty of it, you slowly keep on adding and enjoying the journey. With racing i started with old TM and T3Pa pedals and slowly went for the DD base, load cell pedals, handbrake and H pattern shifter and really liked setting it up, then you go VR and the immersion is insane. I am now just getting into flight sims and oh boy thats a whole different world, kind of cheaper to get the basic stuff but much more expensive in the long run. Looking forward to that new journey as well! good vid fellow czech mate
the exact wheel I have recently switched from! To a DD1 it's a crazy difference and with the V3s too my consistency is SO much better. Always found my quali pace was good with the G920 but better equipment gives you a more frequent chance to hit those fast laps
i love my g920 set. had it 3 years. i modded a progressive spring for the brake a bought a magnet 3d printed ring that sits behind the shifters that creates a weighty clunk and click. its all about the rig. if you not sat in the same place all the time you will never be consistant.
a very helpful tip I got for your chair pushing backwards when you brake is taking two old shoes and setting your rear chair wheels in them. It works surprisingly well and my lap times came down considerably
Iv had 4 wheels 1st the logitech drive pro then g27 off a desk and i sold both as i just didnt like the setup. Fast forward 3 years i bought a tm tgt2 and again used a desk whilst waiting for my gt omega titan rig but sent that back and got the logitech dd pro again using my desk until my preordered titan arrived and instantly noticed a massive improvement just being fixed without having to chase my pedals. I have the tlcm pedals and have no intention of replacing them and very happy with what i have. I totally agree its the rig that makes 90 percent of the difference. Great to watch.
Coincidentally, after about 40 years of racing with joysticks, keyboards and controllers I finally decided to get a wheel last week. And I got the G923, the PS version of the 920. And yes it's an entry level wheel, but it's a HUGE step up from a controller. After only a week of wheel racing I'm already beating my lap times from all those years of experience on the controller. Force Feedback is far from perfect, but for an entry level wheel you should compare it to the vibration function of a controller. The wheel gives much better feedback then, and gives much more control over the steering. I calibrated the brake at about 50% because of the force needed to press the brake 100%, but after a week of racing I think I'm going to ramp it up a bit. This week's daily race C in GT7 requires gentle braking (Willow Springs, the Sweeper) and after a week of racing I'm used to the required force for braking and am willing to press it even harder to get more control. And I have a small but thick carpet which fits just under my chair and desk. Keeps my feet warm, and it stops the chair from rolling out of position. :-) So for people interested in sim racing I'd say get the cheap wheel. I should have done this a long time ago.
So, I would say that what you should do is take the cheap wheel, and take a car/track combo that you are not overly familiar with - maybe even different game and see how long will it take you to get up to the pace with the cheap wheel vs. expesnive. What I am thinking is happening over here, that the biggest struggle newcomers have with cheap equipment is to learn to read the car and physics. You do not need to do that anymore, because you are very familiar with the game/track/cars that you have driven. I have recently gotten my first DD after years on CSL Elite 1.1 and actually picked up a car I have never driven and feel that because of the increased fidelity, I am understanding the car better faster
So true. I have the Thrustmaster T-150 and I don't think the motor can change directions fast enough to convey fast details. As a rookie sim racer, I feel my visual is developing way quicker than the tactile. I get general resistance and the rumble from riding over curbs, but I see the FFB bar in AC and ACC flickering like mad, and I barely feel any of that at all.
Guess what? When I was Simracing at a desk, I used these window/door stopper, shaped like a drop. Put them under all 5 roller and that fixed the movement quite good. On my carpet floor the chair move only about 1 cm max. within 2-3h racing. Ok not comparable to a rig, but a good workaround.
My lap times... Kyalami 1:46 Brands 1:28 Nurburgring 1:58 Equipment... BJ Sim Racing Steel GT CSL Elite PS4 F1 Esport All gear and have no idea. 😂And I can't drive either! Oh, I have a metal chair too, without wheels. I bought one on purpose because I know the brake pedal will be stiff and push you backwards. Not only that, being pushed backwards will put stress on the chair too. Metal will take all the stress no problems.
A sort of life hack for a gamer's chair is to put a sort of a decent rug under the chair, but one that's like got holes in it not a completely flat one (I have a parquet floor). I did this and it helps me from the chair moving but also online they got these clamps you can put under the wheels that makes the chair stick in place but yeah. It is irritating and a rig would definitely help but yeah for now I'm really enjoying my g923 and pedals, and it's my first year using a wheel and I've been sim racing for a loooongggg time.
One of the big problems with this type of analysis that you always run into is that you already have the ideal laps memorised. You learnt those correct points by using higher end gear that gave you much better feel than you could with entry level or even a wheel with no force feedback at all. At your level almost all the driving is memorisation and the question is does the gear allow you the precision to execute your plan. That isn't to say you don't use feel, you do, and indeed the expectation of feel can mean the much more subtle effect on a low end wheel still gives you what you need. But this effect is profound because it means once you have moved to higher end gear and got better with it going back makes no difference, it becomes impossible to compare laptimes. About the only real way would be to test tracks and cars you didn't know so you were more about the feel, but the problem quickly becomes what you learn on one will translate to the other quickly and its hard to separate out the progression of repetition from the equipment. Its thus very hard to setup correctly an experiment that would show the apparent difference in performance gear produces, all you are measuring is the slighting difference in precision of the pedals. The most important part for most people is learning to feel the car and do the right thing, its possible to do on lower end gear but it takes longer as the signal is weaker and less clear. Rear slides for example are easy to catch on a DD wheel, just let go and it does it itself but this technique does not work on a T300 and you need to push the wheel to the right place and recover it at the right moment. A DD wheel will teach this and then you can take it back to the entry wheel and catch slides no problem, or you can practice a lot on an entry wheel and learn to catch it with time. This is one example amoung many others and a common issue with T300's is its harder to feel understeer force drop off as well as slow to feel oversteer starting and the user can overpower the wheel easily. Its more complex, your test likely doesn't show what you think it shows.
I raced a G20 for 10 years and just switched to higher end DD system and load cell pedals. On ovals, there wasn't mulch of a difference at all as I mostly race ovals but on road courses, the wheel and more accurate force feedback plus the better brake pedal made me noticeably faster. Good video.
I jave the G920, its what I use to simrace. And from the very first race I did, I switched the brake to actually be on the clutch pedal. Its a lot smoother and really improves the experience. Plus your chair wouldnt roll back basically at all doing that. Worth a try imo.
I actually did this at first.. then switched back. Yes, it helps when you're in a rolling chair so you don't roll around as much but.. If you get a rig that keeps pedals seat and wheel in a consistent position.. having a hard brake pedal can seriously improve your braking ability. I took out the rubber stopper in the g920 pedals and cut it in half to be more balanced. I've been braking decently well but there is always room for improvement. I hope you find the right setup man! Sim racing is so rewarding.
@@christophermullins7163 I'm still very amateur, and my performance is very track dependant, but I did recently (just this tuesday) get my first win of the season in the sim league I race in (round 14 at Oulton) and it felt amaaaazing! You're so right about it being rewarding!
@@Lord_Lambert I too recently for my first win. I got 2nd on qualifying then I spent 5 or so laps fighting to keep first. The 2nd guy was trying to nose around me the entire time but I kept my cool and Kept my pace and took the win. I ran around the house yelling like a fool lol it felt so much better than winning any Apex Legends or COD match.
@@christophermullins7163 That's awesome :D I quali'd 8th but quali was dry and the race ended up being wet, though it dried off and slicks were optimal for the final 4 or so laps. I was running 4th after the first few laps, and took the lead with only 3 laps left as the leader pitted for dry tyres (he had a big lead because he was a weaker driver in GT3 whereas I was in GT4.. same champ table though) 2nd place completed a drivetrhough but kept his wets and was VERY close to getting a puncture with 38psi, and 3rd had a reunion with the wall on the outside of T3. Kept the lead till the end and took the win. Felt amazing :D
Don't make the mistake of getting used to clutch pedal for braking. Ofc it's way more comfy specially on office chair, but gt cars are so sensitive to breaking, and feel it in a proper way can give you 0.5 to more than 2 sec laptime. There are many ways to keep your chair still, all of them worth try
The thing people always miss is more expensive DD wheels add in better fine adjustments. Also give you the option to match your wheel with your race discipline. You might match times, but it’s harder to get the same times more often. Cause you’ll feel more small details. Pedal wise is a huge difference. Basically more expensive gear gives you more feedback and room for error. But yes anyone can be fast on either but one is easier than the other. Also feels WAY better in the hand and feet.
Thanks for making this video! Dave Cam had a similar video talking about how he would approach starting out in Sim Racing. It has definitely helped me make the correct decisions as I move forward. I have been struggling with lap times. Only getting into the AM times. But it all makes sense now. I have pretty much the same setup with the wheel mounted to a desk, pedals on the carpet and sitting in a computer chair. My next step is putting this all on a proper rig, then getting better pedals. I am using a Moza R5 bundle.
but he has tones of hours of gaming behind his own rig, so of course if he do an endurance race with the low budget rig hes going to struggle even more. But if he would practice maybe for a week with the low budget he would be at the same pace honestly. Jardier is a good driver theres not much that can destroy that fact.
@@northvalley06 Yep, maybe like the overall pace would be similar but slower due to lack of consistent feedback for the brake, one lap would be equal to his best, another lap would be 3-4 tenths slower and so on. Given the competitive are the leagues he plays in, that would definitely slow him down especially in close fighting where you are not only focusing on the lap but you need to be perfect to avoid contact and so on. I do believe his qualifying can be equal though, with a bit of time. This shows how good he is and also how he knows ACC.
@@Psychoh90while you are right. In a 24 hour race where finishing is more important than average race pace, i don’t think 3-4 tenths makes too much of a difference. It’s firstly a team event and I don’t think this should deter any one the sim aspirants in buying a cheaper wheel. Guys like Ronharr, baldwin aliens are faster in any racing sim/game with any gear they are given than 90 -95 percent of the people.
@@utkarshtyagi10 well I totally agree with you in a sense, because I mean what you said it's a fact from other sim racers. One thing though is that like 2 tenths per lap over a 24h race it's huge. I remember following one of the last live from Hardier, they arrived 2nd in 24 hours race, 30 sec from the leader because they lost per lap 0.03 seconds. But yeah, I mean I am average driving and the only thing I won't change at all it would be the direct drive wheel.
I can relate so much with the whole moving issue on chair. At the end of each lap I'm always sitting in a very different position (and having to "reset"). Then again I race in a cheap chair that only stays in place because my bed is behind it... and shoes holding my pedals. I'd love to have a proper rig, but no space around here (and I don't feel it's worth it, I'm pretty much a casual: public lobbies, many months without racing etc).
Thank you so much for this video. It really answered my question as I would like to start sim racing myself however, it is expensive to get into if you already have a drag racing hobby lol. But really helpful. I think Ill go for the G920 and get a very simple foldaway rig just to have the equipment be stable and note moving around. Love the channel and content.
My personal oppinion and experience... I just bought a Moza R9, and had a T300 RS (still using the same pedals T-LCM) and boy what a difference. Not only I enjoy much the driving with all the feelings I get from the car/track that I didn't before, and I even got much more consistent and even faster (sometimes more than half second faster) because I feel more confident and so I can puch the car more to the limit without loosing it. That's my personal experience with the low-end vs high-end wheel 😁
If the 920 pedals are anything like the G29 pedals (I think they're the same) there's a rubber bush in them that all but prevents 100% brake travel. It's not hard to remove. Follow that with a spring upgrade (buy online) and they start to get a lot better, still entry/base level though. My biggest issue with the pedals was the use of potentiometers that are all but open to the elements. As a family with kids & pets, I was forever clearing out the G29 accelerator pot' - noticeable in PCars2 as the throttle fluttering at full throttle (you could see it in the on-screen display). I ended up cutting the back off the case and spraying contact surface cleaner in before a race night. This did solve it, but was a pain. It was the main reason I ended up upgrading actually.
@@FOGDaheee I would not say a bad test as I think he was trying to prove the point that as a new Sim Racer, you don't "have" to have the best equipment to still be fast and consistent
i came from a G29 to a Gpro DD and my conclusion is the DD 'helps' the car around the track. as for the chair moving i use wide black insulating tape around the caster wheels,stops all movement. im sure a rig is so much better,but i switch between games and editing and is as easy as removing wheel rim and then fps/editing in an instant!
You make me wanna throw my rig right out the window, thanks man.... Just an ordinary dude doing right under 2 min flat on Nurnberg and thought that was pretty good, yea right... 🤪😁 To be honnest, I was thinking of getting a dd wheel. (have thrustmaster T-GT and loadcell brakes thrustmaster also) But new eq would set me almost 1600 euros back, but after this video I decided I wait until I can do a 1:54 round Nurnberg. Thanks for saving me a lot of money! 👌😃
I am still racing on a G29. Tested a few DD wheels that friends have and the thing that stands out instantly i how much more information you get from a much powerful wheel. Especially at tracks which require mechanical grip AND downforce like Spa. With the G29 it's a given that at some point you lose either the feel for the downforce or for the tires. There is no way around that. The first time i jumped in a DD wheel i was able to feel both forces at the same time, which allowed to me realize that i don't need max 5 wing on the Audi. I can easily drive even at 1 wing. Just 20 minutes later i was already lapping in the 2:16s where with my wheel i wasn't able to drop under 2:19. Now the new 1.9 update changed that in a good way and the G29 finally has some info about the tires and the suspension and predictably my times got better. Still i can feel when the wheel is overpowered, but it's not as bad as it used to be. Also as many people in the comments pointed out - the biggest gain is consistency. Even though i have my wheel mounted to a fixed sim-rig with seat, it really difficult to stay consistent when you feel for the car and corners changes every single lap.
Jardier the lap times are there but it took you a lot more laps to get them on the logitec. Maybe a good test would be fit it to your rig and compare a 30min hotstint and see if you can be consistent on the cheep wheel.
First I bought G29. Then, when I felt simracing could be a hobby for me, I bought a Rig. Rig with G29 on it. This was the biggest upgrade in terms of pace and consistency. But, years and 4K EUR later, Ultrawide, Heusinkvelds, DD, Dash,... immersion is insane, but I'm still slow. :))
@@crashgenerator it doesn’t matter one bit as long as you’re enjoying it. I didn’t buy a DD etc because I thought it would make me faster, but for the immersion. Although, the asetek invictas did give me great brake modulation feel
When I got into SIM racing, the best advice I was given (by an F1 engineer) & has shown to be good/reliable advice, was that good pedals make all the difference over a wheel..
I went from a G920 to a Simagic Alpha setup with the fanatec clubsport pedals. I gained several seconds. Especially the pedals were a big improvement for me. But at his level, I can imagine he's also very fast on a logitech.
as a G923 desk user, i can say that you definitely go backwards with an office chair :P As a matter of fact, i had to do a wooden rig with some eyebolts and a chain to keep the chair strapped to the pedals, which are also bolted to the wooden rig. For something i did on an afternoon, it works. I have plans to craft a full sim rig, maybe from PVC piping or something else that doesn't break my wallet
I still do clamp it to a desk sim racing, but so far the only equipment that I noticed improved anything was changing from spring pedals to fuel cell, didn't get faster, just got far more consistent
i have over 1500 hours on a g920 but now its falling apart and my playseat is so squeaky and uncomfortable that im so fed up with it that i barely even use it anymore and im saving up for a whole new setup. new seat, stand, direct drive wheel and the whole shabang.
When I went from logi to a Moza r5, the biggest improvement I found was having the speed and accuracy of the ffb. That made it so a pleb like me could actually catch oversteer and felt more confident in the car and could push more. The better build and all that was a nice touch as well.
On ACC you won't feel much of a difference since the driving is really forgiving (0% to 100% braking, you don't have to be really precise with the inputs, ABS and TC help a lot, etc); on iRacing on the other hand, going from entry level pedals to a load cell brake and a DD wheel will definitely make you faster and more consistent!
6 years on a G920 on a knockoff of a Playseat challenge. Inverted the pedals about 3 years ago. 1-2 secs off the serious guys is fast enough to have a lot of fun.
For some reason logitec decided to add a cube of rubber to the brake pedal,which then made it impossible to brake correctly at a desk setup.I took it out and it felt alot better but then of course the brake pedal compressed to easy.I felt that the wheels after the G27,like the G29 etc was a cheaper bulid so i went back to my G27 and still use it to this very day . Ty for the video it was interesting seeing you was out of your comfort zone.
I fold 2 rags and tuck them under my chair wheels so the chair don't move since I have the G29 and it actually works. You can actually make the pedals more sensitive using GHUB so it's more easier to brake :)
Love this video Jardier! I feel some people do just upgrade in the hopes of going fast. For me it was two things that I needed to be both fast and consistent with a Logitech setup, that was upgrade the brake to an AXC-SIM TrueBrake which is amazing as the stock brake got incredibly mushy and then a GT Omega ART Cockpit to fix everything in place. After doing both of these I have zero reason now to upgrade to anything else. I can easily see the difference as with iRacing I can see myself winning racing, not because I am the fastest but because I have the highest average lap time meaning I am much more consistent.
When I first started sim racing with a g29, how I kept my chair from rolling backward was I put a bunch of foam I had laying around in a backpack and put that under my chair. Worked great until I actually got a rig
I use rubber coasters under my chair wheels, or replace wheels with feet to prevent the seat movement. This GT Omega seat also has a stiff rotation so I don't really turn when pressing pedals.
I use a g920 from logitech on a desk set up with vr and fanatec v3s for iracing. I have a carpet floor in my bedroom so what I did was got these little feet attachments for my office chair and it helps so you don't move. Only issues is I can go full power on my pedals but you never need to use that much strength to brake though so it works great and my desk has a back panel so they don't move.
I got the logitech G29, had a good time but the noise it makes is not ideal for my situation so a month later I bought the Moza R5 kit and gifted the G29 away. A week after, I got the GT Omega Art cockpit because my back could not take a dining chair any longer lol! My next purchase might have to be a tv mount to align my fov better, as right now my tv far too high up on a desk. I hope I get the chance to race with/against you one day Jadier.
10x the money for one of two tenths, that's a little depressing, and that's without the chair being fixed. Still, it's a good advert for how good the mid-range equipment can be, and it's not a reason to pout if beaten by people with more expensive gear. Would be interesting if you'd get better times and more consistency with the chair fixed own.
I have the Logitech g29 for my ps4 with a chair like you were using. I put a cement cylinder block behind the chair to keep it from moving around and it was a game changer. Just a tip for anyone who has that issue
I personally didn't expect much difference in time because of your skill level and being able to adapt. I've only recently got into sim racing (3months) and that's where I'd be curious to see if there's a difference. Someone new trying a €250 set up to €2000 set up
Anecdotal, but I just upgraded from a G29 to a DD wheel and load cell pedals (Moza R9//SRP). Personally, I think it's easier to be consistently fast with the nicer setup. My average lap times improved much more than my fastest lap at each track.
@Xamd I can see how consistency would be a big factor. One of the reasons why I'd be intrigued with a new person is also because I am on xbox controller (never going to be able to afford a set up) but to try cheap and expensive to then see if there is a difference.
I think you have a point there. I guess it's easier to get the pace in a different hardware once you already got it in the old one, than just trying to achieve it from scratch. I'm surprised the pedals didn't make a difference in pace, as I find very hard to precisely brake and trailbrake with the G27 (even worse in an office chair). But not surprised at all about the importance of the rig. Doing 10 laps in 10 different driving positions and distance ruins any consistency and pace... So yea, my next upgrade is going to be (kind of) a rig, for sure.
The problem with someone recently into sim racing is you still have so much speed to find from just hours in the sim and not equipment. Unless you have Max Verstappen levels of natural talent then it takes hundreds of hours to get up to speed
Great vid Jards, don;t forget you are an alien with natural pace - what would be interesting if you can get a new starter to sim racing who has not raced in a high end set up to do exactly what you did at your apartment - now that would be great fun to watch the expression on the persons face light up........ maybe someone local to your home town?????
Good vid, love these ones. I'd say switching to load cell pedals (even entry like tlcm) did much more to my lap times and consistency than switching to a DD wheel. But, as others said, a DD wheel also builds confidence, consistency and a more entertaining experience, especially in games where the car slides around more. It also helped me take more aggressive setups, which is what's enabling to push harder.
Well just get plain kitchen chair without wheels 🤣 personally switching from t-300 to csl-dd didn't make me any faster, but the immersion is just another level (not to mention quieter, as there are no fans with DD)... what helped me quite significantly was getting the T-LCM pedals with load cell brake, not much for the speed but definitely for the consistency
Absolutely brilliant mate. I do think the rig definitely has something to do with consistency. My rig is cheap and nasty, the whole thing has way too much flex! Having upgraded a few years ago, it’s good to know that my spare Logitech I won last year will be up to the job in case my Fanatec fails :)
I started on a Genius wheel with FFB, dont remember the model. Then I got a second hand logitech DFP from a simracing buddy back in, I dont know...2006, same wheel you had as your first wheel. That was with me until last year when I upgraded to T300RS GT. Also got my first cockpit-like thing the Next Level Wheel Stand 2.0, no room for the seat extension, so racing with my office chair, tucked in the tray for wheels. I will probably get a set of LC brake pedals this year. Probably from Fanatec since the native ones are pretty crap and I play on PC.
I improved after mounting 4 transducers into my NLR rig. Its underestimated in my opinion. If you set simhub properly It gives a lot of information and I react intuitively. Maybe something about that? Good topic for simracers. We are all focused on expensive DD's or pedals. But what about this improvement for around 200$? I bought 4 cheap 100W transducers, 2x Nobsound amp and cables. Night and day difference for me. I forgot about my dream to change pedals for something like simagic p2000. Actually I don't know if that's a good choice... Usually we don't test few different pedal sets. That's why we need RUclipsres haha.
Give allien random steering wheel (and drink... maybe gloves if virgin) and it still will do decent laptimes. Give non-allien fancy rig and it will still be slow (faster, more consistant, with less back pain) but still Stu.
Awesome video! Really helps remind me as a g29 user that I can definitely find more time how I am. I’m hyped too because I’m getting my first rig here really soon after winning a league!!
Yea my first wheel and pedals do to price was the Logitech G29. Just ordered the new Moza R5 bundle with the extra brake mod and clutch pedal. So hopefully it will help my driving a little and just make it more enjoyable than with the G29.
i think you should do this test with cars without abs. its easy to brake 100% and let the abs do its job. that makes the difference in quality between the pedals a lot smaller, except for the feeling of trail braking. take a car where you cannot brake 100% because otherwise you will immediately block 4 wheels. gte, lmp2, f1 cars like that. I think you get a much better comparison that way
Next time try driving open wheelers without traction control. Like in iRacing where many cars require 60-80% brake pressure. I've got my G920 mounted on a ~$4k rig. Comfort and immersion are so much better. I'm now consistently ~4s off the pace in iRacing F4 fixed races. Bottom split ftw!
Remove the wheels from your office/gaming chair Jardier. Why people don't think to do this surprises me lol. I use a gaming chair setup with vrs dfp pedals.
i did the same thing and i was a sec of my pace from simucube to logitech G29 there more concentration on a entry level setup then high end makes it easier to control everything. the cheapest motion platform
Have to say that trying a direct drive setup and then a Logitech will give you more Confidence to put faster lap times but just starting with a Logitech you won’t have that much of confidence to push whereas a DD wheel. So definitely have DD is so good and can give you that extra tenth or even more not only in Acc but other games as well.
i solved the problem of the logitech braking by switching it to the clutch pedal, it helps me fullt activating the brakes everytime and i dont shift as much in the chair, but it still isnt great
I am currently running the g920 wheel base with after market wheel, heusinkveld sprint peddles on the gt omega classic rig. I am constantly about 2-3 seconds a lap slower and even 4 seconds slower at spa. I am looking at buying a dd but after watching this video and you only being 2 tenths slower on the g920 I have come to the conclusion that I am just a slow driver and maybe a more solid rig might be a better purchase. Great video and ideal for where I am at the moment. Feel free to stop by and help an old man to be quicker. Challenge you to make me quicker.
@@bigal1968ful even me. When I was lapping 4 sec slower I had no clue how to improve. 200hrs later I'm lapping 2 sec slower and havo no clue, but still improved 2 secs
Mabix did a similar video with a Thrustmaster T150 I think, which was HIS entry wheel into simracing. similar end result, skill can overcome equipment limitations
Hi there Jardier…Nice and interesting video as usual. It would be interesting if George, Samir and you would set up cheap rig on table like this and go for a 6h race just to see what would be the result compare to what you guys do usually. Keep the great content and push push push on the road to 100K. Cheers
Not having the bumpstop thingy on entry level pedals is a thing. Consistent braking and trail braking are super hard. Also, both torsion springs in the Thrustmaster T-150 pedals will snap after a month's use. Luckily, my local hardware store carried some. But those snap too. lol. Also, I really feel like I'm missing 90% of the finer details of the FFB. I think a DD wheel will increase my SATISFACTION index considerably. I feel like my visual skills are developing more than my tactile skills. In AC and ACC, I see the FFB bar flickering like crazy and I feel almost no change. I wonder how much more I would feel with something like a Moza 5.5.
In my timeline you have just started your first lap on the DD1 setup. My thoughts are that you are fast, and will be fast regardless. If there is a difference with the Logitech, I think it will be minimal. Edit: Yup, about what I expected. Very nice video.
i have a G923 wheel and Fanatec CSL Elite V2 pedals. Pedals made a bit of a difference. its not like it makes you stop faster in the game, but just applies the brake in a more "car like" way. It makes the sim more sim-like. the accelerator has a longer throw so you have a little more adjustability in your foot as well.
Nice video! I have switched from Playseat Challenge wit G923 to a proper aluminium rig with DD1, V3's and a bucket seat a few months ago. Altough it didn't make me a lot faster, the consistency improved and the immersion is so much better. I have a lot of fun and didn't regret any € spent on it so far. Have a nice day everyone 😉
I feel the same with you on the pedal prediction, I’ve always said I can get away with the force feedback on my g923 but I feel like my feet are blindfolded if that makes sense
love your vids good video ive got the g920 and i just cant improve anymore wish i had fund for a new setup maybe 1 day keep up the good work bro your a legend
Unfortunately I have the Logitech G29, mounted on my desk, the exact same seat setup, the disadvantage I have is my computer desk is what I also use for working remote, and I don’t have the space in my apartment for a rig. I’ve been looking at a Moza wheel setup, table mount also, but I have to work during the day and mount the wheel after hours, sucks. It’s not too bad, but I hear your pain about the chair constantly moving around during braking. And I thought about chair wheel locks also, not sure if they make those?
Hi Jardier! Consistency is the key. It's what we practice for and strive to make habitual. I'd like to see how the two compare on that score. Either with say, an hour long hot stint on each (ACC), or an endurance race as others have suggested. Learning curve is also a thing. Does your existing rig leverage your experience to help you learn a new course faster? Does your experience allow you manage the capabilities of the entry level gear and hit same marks 80% of time? All great questions that I suspect we all wonder about. Thanks for doing this video. It encourages folks like me, in the lower and mid tiers of the equipment part of the equipment chase. :-)
Just goes to show you a good driver will ways be a good driver! Those few tenths are the difference between being used to equipment.. Now emersion wise I'm sure the higher end equipment is better. Can you do a new video about your wheel and in game settings? Have they changed at all with the updates?
A lot of people think they need super expensive equipment to be fast. A guy in a league i race in is one of the fastest guys in there and he uses a g29
you can get flat replacement bits to replace the chair wheels pretty cheap and they work a treat. getting your brain to realise that your chair doesnt have wheels anymore takes some time. lol
Jardier! If I see correctly at 7:40 you have your sony a7 without a lens on. You should be careful with dust collecting in your sensor. IT is a pain to remove them from your sensor. If I see correct of course ;)
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I just recently switched from g29 + office chair to new Logitech DD. It didn't really make me faster, but it did make it immediately easier to catch slides earlier and generally feel when things don't go your way. So I'd say it made my racing safer.
Videos like these make you realize that whilst it's cool to have high-end equipment, it doesn't make you go any faster.
It makes. Good wheel can teach you something you can never feel with poor one
It doesn’t make you faster, it does make you more consistent.
Def makes you more consistent and also more comfortable overall 💪
@@Jardier and with a proper rig to sit comfortable in. nothing moves.
@@hanss6501 I have a 165hz and g920.. thinking of hand building a rig.. just need the bucked seat 😁
This is probably a common story in the sim racing community: I got the logitech wheel. Then I realized mounting it on the desk every time is a PITA and sitting in an office chair is like shooting a cannon out of a canoe, so I got a rig and a semi bucket seat, and it's perfect. But DD wheel and proper pedals is what costs the most. I'll wait for quite a bit more before I jump into such an investment. Have other priorities going on, and I want to see if I'll have the same amount of time and motivation to race in the long term, as I started less than a year ago, and got the rig in august.
this is my story 100%, but im on the t300 + t-lcm pedals, which are decent. It's just so convenient to jump into the rig and get straight to racing. And especially load cell pedals are a pain in the ass when sitting in a chair, there's just to much flex.
Thank you so much for making this video. when my t300 broke and had to strap on the g29 again i realized how much of a diference it made, and i know that with a dd it's even greater. Although with enough time you can match the times, the biggest difference comes in the race. It's very noticeable how much more effort is needed to mantain the same pace with the low end wheel compared to the high end. People nowadays believe that racing with a g29 vs a dd is equal grounds and is all skill, and even tho skill is almost all of it, when it comes to competing, the high end does give you that edge over the entry one, and in that fine level of competition it really counts. I also agree that the pedals and rig are the n1 priority, breaking is the hardest part of racing and that's what separates the good from the great.
I believe you. I am struggling with laptimes in terms of learning tracks and braking point etc. One day when I am very comfortable I will upgrade but I believe there are plenty of other areas to spend money and upgrade the setup outside of my g920. It's really not bad.. it's just not "ideal" just like 1080p isn't bad but it's not "ideal" like 4k. Most of us are aiming for better equipment but we have house notes and kids to feed lol one day I'll have a direct drive. I assume that does away with that feeling of gears turning when you turn the wheel?
I have a desk setup with the G29 and use a kitchen chair that doesn't roll and is a bit lower than my rolling chair and it's just fine. It's not moving around and it's mostly comfortable, though after hours of racing my hip starts hurting a little bit. A huge thing for me was to keep the pedals in place, I bought some anti slip rubber mats and the pedals are completely stable with it no matter how hard I push. The pedals really are ass though especially the brake, it's way too hard by default so I immediately removed the rubber stopper that's inside the spring and it's much better that way, however it's now detecting 100% input when in reality I've only pushed the pedal like 80% of the way, so I now use the clutch pedal to brake instead.
Not gonna lie the thought of upgrading is very tempting especially the pedals plus I wouldn't mind shifters and handbrake either, oh and a bigger screen would be nice... but I've only had this thing for a few months and I want to focus on getting fast on skill first, not to mention being financially responsible, I don't want to fall into the trap of creating an endless money sink out of this hobby. Especially now that Jardier has shown me you can still get very good laptimes on the G29.
Thank you on behalf of 90% of your viewers who enjoy this game on the chair and such gear :D It's almost unbelievable that lap times were so close...
If you will do same test but just on defaulut aggressive setup - then everything would be clear = it's all about SKILL.
Cause so far we can still say that good setup > hardware ^^
🤩🤩🤩
Jardier has already done a video like that a while back, watch?v=kTIbo7z4460
Good video. The pedals and rig are probably the two most important part of a SIM setup. I started 13 months ago. I still use G29 wheel base and happy with it. For pedals however I use separate load cell pedals. They make the biggest difference. My pace and consistency have improved so much. I also got a proper rig to mount everything. All within last 13 months. I could not go back to non load cell pedals.
Prediction: fast laps are going to be fairly similar but consistency is going favor the expensive stuff by far.
Totally! True
Your vids from months ago keep popping up feed.. I'm blessed!
Honestly i did the same thing with my rig.
I went from a thrustmaster tx something to a csl elite to a CSW with the clubsport pedals. Then about 3 years ago brought the DD2 with the TR1 profile rig from simlabs.
My current rig
TR1
CubeControls CSX2
Mclaren GT3 rim ( love it just as much as my CSX2 )
Formula V2 F1 edition ( orange one with forged carbon )
Replica Audi GT3 rim
DD2
Heusinkveld Sprints TR edition
Honestly comparing the wheelbases, the difference is a given, obviously the difference between a CSW, arguably the best belt driven base around to a DD2 blew my mind but It was my Heus pedals that opened my eyes, sure the extra details and so forth from a DD2 is amazing but the consistency i can get with my heus pedals and being able to dial them into being just perfect for me. I can't use lesser pedals anymore.
It feels like having an important sixth sense abruptly taken away from me.
playing sims is expensive but its rewarding and you dont have to buy everything at once which is the beauty of it, you slowly keep on adding and enjoying the journey.
With racing i started with old TM and T3Pa pedals and slowly went for the DD base, load cell pedals, handbrake and H pattern shifter and really liked setting it up, then you go VR and the immersion is insane.
I am now just getting into flight sims and oh boy thats a whole different world, kind of cheaper to get the basic stuff but much more expensive in the long run. Looking forward to that new journey as well!
good vid fellow czech mate
the exact wheel I have recently switched from! To a DD1 it's a crazy difference and with the V3s too my consistency is SO much better. Always found my quali pace was good with the G920 but better equipment gives you a more frequent chance to hit those fast laps
i love my g920 set. had it 3 years. i modded a progressive spring for the brake a bought a magnet 3d printed ring that sits behind the shifters that creates a weighty clunk and click. its all about the rig. if you not sat in the same place all the time you will never be consistant.
a very helpful tip I got for your chair pushing backwards when you brake is taking two old shoes and setting your rear chair wheels in them. It works surprisingly well and my lap times came down considerably
never taught of that. I removed my wheels, but the chair got really low. Might try do your trick.
The return of brake shoes I see!
Iv had 4 wheels 1st the logitech drive pro then g27 off a desk and i sold both as i just didnt like the setup.
Fast forward 3 years i bought a tm tgt2 and again used a desk whilst waiting for my gt omega titan rig but sent that back and got the logitech dd pro again using my desk until my preordered titan arrived and instantly noticed a massive improvement just being fixed without having to chase my pedals.
I have the tlcm pedals and have no intention of replacing them and very happy with what i have.
I totally agree its the rig that makes 90 percent of the difference.
Great to watch.
Coincidentally, after about 40 years of racing with joysticks, keyboards and controllers I finally decided to get a wheel last week. And I got the G923, the PS version of the 920. And yes it's an entry level wheel, but it's a HUGE step up from a controller. After only a week of wheel racing I'm already beating my lap times from all those years of experience on the controller. Force Feedback is far from perfect, but for an entry level wheel you should compare it to the vibration function of a controller. The wheel gives much better feedback then, and gives much more control over the steering.
I calibrated the brake at about 50% because of the force needed to press the brake 100%, but after a week of racing I think I'm going to ramp it up a bit. This week's daily race C in GT7 requires gentle braking (Willow Springs, the Sweeper) and after a week of racing I'm used to the required force for braking and am willing to press it even harder to get more control.
And I have a small but thick carpet which fits just under my chair and desk. Keeps my feet warm, and it stops the chair from rolling out of position. :-)
So for people interested in sim racing I'd say get the cheap wheel. I should have done this a long time ago.
So, I would say that what you should do is take the cheap wheel, and take a car/track combo that you are not overly familiar with - maybe even different game and see how long will it take you to get up to the pace with the cheap wheel vs. expesnive. What I am thinking is happening over here, that the biggest struggle newcomers have with cheap equipment is to learn to read the car and physics. You do not need to do that anymore, because you are very familiar with the game/track/cars that you have driven. I have recently gotten my first DD after years on CSL Elite 1.1 and actually picked up a car I have never driven and feel that because of the increased fidelity, I am understanding the car better faster
Glad that somebody pointed that out. Newcomers may overdrive cars without even knowing on low end gear
So true. I have the Thrustmaster T-150 and I don't think the motor can change directions fast enough to convey fast details. As a rookie sim racer, I feel my visual is developing way quicker than the tactile. I get general resistance and the rumble from riding over curbs, but I see the FFB bar in AC and ACC flickering like mad, and I barely feel any of that at all.
Guess what? When I was Simracing at a desk, I used these window/door stopper, shaped like a drop. Put them under all 5 roller and that fixed the movement quite good. On my carpet floor the chair move only about 1 cm max. within 2-3h racing. Ok not comparable to a rig, but a good workaround.
My lap times...
Kyalami 1:46
Brands 1:28
Nurburgring 1:58
Equipment...
BJ Sim Racing Steel GT
CSL Elite PS4 F1 Esport
All gear and have no idea. 😂And I can't drive either! Oh, I have a metal chair too, without wheels. I bought one on purpose because I know the brake pedal will be stiff and push you backwards. Not only that, being pushed backwards will put stress on the chair too. Metal will take all the stress no problems.
A sort of life hack for a gamer's chair is to put a sort of a decent rug under the chair, but one that's like got holes in it not a completely flat one (I have a parquet floor). I did this and it helps me from the chair moving but also online they got these clamps you can put under the wheels that makes the chair stick in place but yeah. It is irritating and a rig would definitely help but yeah for now I'm really enjoying my g923 and pedals, and it's my first year using a wheel and I've been sim racing for a loooongggg time.
One of the big problems with this type of analysis that you always run into is that you already have the ideal laps memorised. You learnt those correct points by using higher end gear that gave you much better feel than you could with entry level or even a wheel with no force feedback at all. At your level almost all the driving is memorisation and the question is does the gear allow you the precision to execute your plan. That isn't to say you don't use feel, you do, and indeed the expectation of feel can mean the much more subtle effect on a low end wheel still gives you what you need.
But this effect is profound because it means once you have moved to higher end gear and got better with it going back makes no difference, it becomes impossible to compare laptimes. About the only real way would be to test tracks and cars you didn't know so you were more about the feel, but the problem quickly becomes what you learn on one will translate to the other quickly and its hard to separate out the progression of repetition from the equipment. Its thus very hard to setup correctly an experiment that would show the apparent difference in performance gear produces, all you are measuring is the slighting difference in precision of the pedals.
The most important part for most people is learning to feel the car and do the right thing, its possible to do on lower end gear but it takes longer as the signal is weaker and less clear. Rear slides for example are easy to catch on a DD wheel, just let go and it does it itself but this technique does not work on a T300 and you need to push the wheel to the right place and recover it at the right moment. A DD wheel will teach this and then you can take it back to the entry wheel and catch slides no problem, or you can practice a lot on an entry wheel and learn to catch it with time. This is one example amoung many others and a common issue with T300's is its harder to feel understeer force drop off as well as slow to feel oversteer starting and the user can overpower the wheel easily.
Its more complex, your test likely doesn't show what you think it shows.
I raced a G20 for 10 years and just switched to higher end DD system and load cell pedals. On ovals, there wasn't mulch of a difference at all as I mostly race ovals but on road courses, the wheel and more accurate force feedback plus the better brake pedal made me noticeably faster. Good video.
I jave the G920, its what I use to simrace. And from the very first race I did, I switched the brake to actually be on the clutch pedal. Its a lot smoother and really improves the experience. Plus your chair wouldnt roll back basically at all doing that. Worth a try imo.
I actually did this at first.. then switched back. Yes, it helps when you're in a rolling chair so you don't roll around as much but.. If you get a rig that keeps pedals seat and wheel in a consistent position.. having a hard brake pedal can seriously improve your braking ability. I took out the rubber stopper in the g920 pedals and cut it in half to be more balanced. I've been braking decently well but there is always room for improvement. I hope you find the right setup man! Sim racing is so rewarding.
@@christophermullins7163 I'm still very amateur, and my performance is very track dependant, but I did recently (just this tuesday) get my first win of the season in the sim league I race in (round 14 at Oulton) and it felt amaaaazing! You're so right about it being rewarding!
@@Lord_Lambert I too recently for my first win. I got 2nd on qualifying then I spent 5 or so laps fighting to keep first. The 2nd guy was trying to nose around me the entire time but I kept my cool and Kept my pace and took the win. I ran around the house yelling like a fool lol it felt so much better than winning any Apex Legends or COD match.
@@christophermullins7163 That's awesome :D I quali'd 8th but quali was dry and the race ended up being wet, though it dried off and slicks were optimal for the final 4 or so laps. I was running 4th after the first few laps, and took the lead with only 3 laps left as the leader pitted for dry tyres (he had a big lead because he was a weaker driver in GT3 whereas I was in GT4.. same champ table though) 2nd place completed a drivetrhough but kept his wets and was VERY close to getting a puncture with 38psi, and 3rd had a reunion with the wall on the outside of T3. Kept the lead till the end and took the win. Felt amazing :D
Don't make the mistake of getting used to clutch pedal for braking. Ofc it's way more comfy specially on office chair, but gt cars are so sensitive to breaking, and feel it in a proper way can give you 0.5 to more than 2 sec laptime. There are many ways to keep your chair still, all of them worth try
The thing people always miss is more expensive DD wheels add in better fine adjustments. Also give you the option to match your wheel with your race discipline. You might match times, but it’s harder to get the same times more often. Cause you’ll feel more small details.
Pedal wise is a huge difference. Basically more expensive gear gives you more feedback and room for error. But yes anyone can be fast on either but one is easier than the other. Also feels WAY better in the hand and feet.
Thanks for making this video! Dave Cam had a similar video talking about how he would approach starting out in Sim Racing. It has definitely helped me make the correct decisions as I move forward.
I have been struggling with lap times. Only getting into the AM times. But it all makes sense now. I have pretty much the same setup with the wheel mounted to a desk, pedals on the carpet and sitting in a computer chair. My next step is putting this all on a proper rig, then getting better pedals. I am using a Moza R5 bundle.
I feel like these comparisons should be done with endurance races, the best way to test consistency which is the most important thing.
but he has tones of hours of gaming behind his own rig, so of course if he do an endurance race with the low budget rig hes going to struggle even more. But if he would practice maybe for a week with the low budget he would be at the same pace honestly. Jardier is a good driver theres not much that can destroy that fact.
@@northvalley06 Yep, maybe like the overall pace would be similar but slower due to lack of consistent feedback for the brake, one lap would be equal to his best, another lap would be 3-4 tenths slower and so on. Given the competitive are the leagues he plays in, that would definitely slow him down especially in close fighting where you are not only focusing on the lap but you need to be perfect to avoid contact and so on. I do believe his qualifying can be equal though, with a bit of time. This shows how good he is and also how he knows ACC.
@@Psychoh90while you are right. In a 24 hour race where finishing is more important than average race pace, i don’t think 3-4 tenths makes too much of a difference. It’s firstly a team event and I don’t think this should deter any one the sim aspirants in buying a cheaper wheel. Guys like Ronharr, baldwin aliens are faster in any racing sim/game with any gear they are given than 90 -95 percent of the people.
@@utkarshtyagi10 well I totally agree with you in a sense, because I mean what you said it's a fact from other sim racers. One thing though is that like 2 tenths per lap over a 24h race it's huge. I remember following one of the last live from Hardier, they arrived 2nd in 24 hours race, 30 sec from the leader because they lost per lap 0.03 seconds. But yeah, I mean I am average driving and the only thing I won't change at all it would be the direct drive wheel.
not everyone does endurance races. most do say 30min races
Thank you for making this video. I've been looking to upgrade my CSL Elite pedals with Heusinkveld Sprints and you just saved me some money :D
So are you gonna do the upgrade?
I can relate so much with the whole moving issue on chair.
At the end of each lap I'm always sitting in a very different position (and having to "reset").
Then again I race in a cheap chair that only stays in place because my bed is behind it... and shoes holding my pedals.
I'd love to have a proper rig, but no space around here (and I don't feel it's worth it, I'm pretty much a casual: public lobbies, many months without racing etc).
Try Playseat Challenge. It is foldable seat. For me it worked wonders.
Thank you so much for this video. It really answered my question as I would like to start sim racing myself however, it is expensive to get into if you already have a drag racing hobby lol. But really helpful. I think Ill go for the G920 and get a very simple foldaway rig just to have the equipment be stable and note moving around. Love the channel and content.
My personal oppinion and experience... I just bought a Moza R9, and had a T300 RS (still using the same pedals T-LCM) and boy what a difference. Not only I enjoy much the driving with all the feelings I get from the car/track that I didn't before, and I even got much more consistent and even faster (sometimes more than half second faster) because I feel more confident and so I can puch the car more to the limit without loosing it. That's my personal experience with the low-end vs high-end wheel 😁
If the 920 pedals are anything like the G29 pedals (I think they're the same) there's a rubber bush in them that all but prevents 100% brake travel. It's not hard to remove. Follow that with a spring upgrade (buy online) and they start to get a lot better, still entry/base level though.
My biggest issue with the pedals was the use of potentiometers that are all but open to the elements. As a family with kids & pets, I was forever clearing out the G29 accelerator pot' - noticeable in PCars2 as the throttle fluttering at full throttle (you could see it in the on-screen display). I ended up cutting the back off the case and spraying contact surface cleaner in before a race night. This did solve it, but was a pain.
It was the main reason I ended up upgrading actually.
I would like to see you do laps with the G29 hooked into your sim rig.
My thought too.
this would be a good test.
Is that the best cheap steering wheel g29
This is exactly what he should have done, at the end of the day he was testing the wheel not the whole setup. Bad test imo.
@@FOGDaheee I would not say a bad test as I think he was trying to prove the point that as a new Sim Racer, you don't "have" to have the best equipment to still be fast and consistent
i came from a G29 to a Gpro DD and my conclusion is the DD 'helps' the car around the track.
as for the chair moving i use wide black insulating tape around the caster wheels,stops all movement.
im sure a rig is so much better,but i switch between games and editing and is as easy as removing wheel rim
and then fps/editing in an instant!
You make me wanna throw my rig right out the window, thanks man.... Just an ordinary dude doing right under 2 min flat on Nurnberg and thought that was pretty good, yea right... 🤪😁
To be honnest, I was thinking of getting a dd wheel. (have thrustmaster T-GT and loadcell brakes thrustmaster also) But new eq would set me almost 1600 euros back, but after this video I decided I wait until I can do a 1:54 round Nurnberg. Thanks for saving me a lot of money! 👌😃
I am still racing on a G29. Tested a few DD wheels that friends have and the thing that stands out instantly i how much more information you get from a much powerful wheel. Especially at tracks which require mechanical grip AND downforce like Spa. With the G29 it's a given that at some point you lose either the feel for the downforce or for the tires. There is no way around that. The first time i jumped in a DD wheel i was able to feel both forces at the same time, which allowed to me realize that i don't need max 5 wing on the Audi. I can easily drive even at 1 wing. Just 20 minutes later i was already lapping in the 2:16s where with my wheel i wasn't able to drop under 2:19. Now the new 1.9 update changed that in a good way and the G29 finally has some info about the tires and the suspension and predictably my times got better. Still i can feel when the wheel is overpowered, but it's not as bad as it used to be. Also as many people in the comments pointed out - the biggest gain is consistency. Even though i have my wheel mounted to a fixed sim-rig with seat, it really difficult to stay consistent when you feel for the car and corners changes every single lap.
Jardier the lap times are there but it took you a lot more laps to get them on the logitec. Maybe a good test would be fit it to your rig and compare a 30min hotstint and see if you can be consistent on the cheep wheel.
Thats because he is used to his dd setup and brakes not the logi. Will take awhile to adjust plus seating arrangement on top of that.
First I bought G29. Then, when I felt simracing could be a hobby for me, I bought a Rig. Rig with G29 on it. This was the biggest upgrade in terms of pace and consistency. But, years and 4K EUR later, Ultrawide, Heusinkvelds, DD, Dash,... immersion is insane, but I'm still slow. :))
@@crashgenerator it doesn’t matter one bit as long as you’re enjoying it. I didn’t buy a DD etc because I thought it would make me faster, but for the immersion. Although, the asetek invictas did give me great brake modulation feel
@@crashgenerator i have G29 and some guy are 5 seconds faster than me on keyboard 😢
clearly consistency is the issue with the cheaper setup. and consistency is key
When I got into SIM racing, the best advice I was given (by an F1 engineer) & has shown to be good/reliable advice, was that good pedals make all the difference over a wheel..
100000%
I went from a G920 to a Simagic Alpha setup with the fanatec clubsport pedals. I gained several seconds. Especially the pedals were a big improvement for me. But at his level, I can imagine he's also very fast on a logitech.
as a G923 desk user, i can say that you definitely go backwards with an office chair :P
As a matter of fact, i had to do a wooden rig with some eyebolts and a chain to keep the chair strapped to the pedals, which are also bolted to the wooden rig. For something i did on an afternoon, it works. I have plans to craft a full sim rig, maybe from PVC piping or something else that doesn't break my wallet
I still do clamp it to a desk sim racing, but so far the only equipment that I noticed improved anything was changing from spring pedals to fuel cell, didn't get faster, just got far more consistent
rig 100% is more important for consistency as you proved. but you cant beat direct drive feeling and quality.
i have over 1500 hours on a g920 but now its falling apart and my playseat is so squeaky and uncomfortable that im so fed up with it that i barely even use it anymore and im saving up for a whole new setup. new seat, stand, direct drive wheel and the whole shabang.
When I went from logi to a Moza r5, the biggest improvement I found was having the speed and accuracy of the ffb. That made it so a pleb like me could actually catch oversteer and felt more confident in the car and could push more. The better build and all that was a nice touch as well.
I have a thrustmaster TS PC and want to change to Moza R5, do you think it will be just as good and powerful FFB?
On ACC you won't feel much of a difference since the driving is really forgiving (0% to 100% braking, you don't have to be really precise with the inputs, ABS and TC help a lot, etc); on iRacing on the other hand, going from entry level pedals to a load cell brake and a DD wheel will definitely make you faster and more consistent!
6 years on a G920 on a knockoff of a Playseat challenge. Inverted the pedals about 3 years ago. 1-2 secs off the serious guys is fast enough to have a lot of fun.
For some reason logitec decided to add a cube of rubber to the brake pedal,which then made it impossible to brake correctly at a desk setup.I took it out and it felt alot better but then of course the brake pedal compressed to easy.I felt that the wheels after the G27,like the G29 etc was a cheaper bulid so i went back to my G27 and still use it to this very day . Ty for the video it was interesting seeing you was out of your comfort zone.
I fold 2 rags and tuck them under my chair wheels so the chair don't move since I have the G29 and it actually works. You can actually make the pedals more sensitive using GHUB so it's more easier to brake :)
Thanks for basically proving that it's not the equipment, it's the driver.
Love this video Jardier! I feel some people do just upgrade in the hopes of going fast.
For me it was two things that I needed to be both fast and consistent with a Logitech setup, that was upgrade the brake to an AXC-SIM TrueBrake which is amazing as the stock brake got incredibly mushy and then a GT Omega ART Cockpit to fix everything in place. After doing both of these I have zero reason now to upgrade to anything else.
I can easily see the difference as with iRacing I can see myself winning racing, not because I am the fastest but because I have the highest average lap time meaning I am much more consistent.
When I first started sim racing with a g29, how I kept my chair from rolling backward was I put a bunch of foam I had laying around in a backpack and put that under my chair. Worked great until I actually got a rig
I use rubber coasters under my chair wheels, or replace wheels with feet to prevent the seat movement. This GT Omega seat also has a stiff rotation so I don't really turn when pressing pedals.
I use a g920 from logitech on a desk set up with vr and fanatec v3s for iracing. I have a carpet floor in my bedroom so what I did was got these little feet attachments for my office chair and it helps so you don't move. Only issues is I can go full power on my pedals but you never need to use that much strength to brake though so it works great and my desk has a back panel so they don't move.
I got the logitech G29, had a good time but the noise it makes is not ideal for my situation so a month later I bought the Moza R5 kit and gifted the G29 away. A week after, I got the GT Omega Art cockpit because my back could not take a dining chair any longer lol!
My next purchase might have to be a tv mount to align my fov better, as right now my tv far too high up on a desk.
I hope I get the chance to race with/against you one day Jadier.
10x the money for one of two tenths, that's a little depressing, and that's without the chair being fixed. Still, it's a good advert for how good the mid-range equipment can be, and it's not a reason to pout if beaten by people with more expensive gear. Would be interesting if you'd get better times and more consistency with the chair fixed own.
I have the Logitech g29 for my ps4 with a chair like you were using. I put a cement cylinder block behind the chair to keep it from moving around and it was a game changer. Just a tip for anyone who has that issue
And I put upgraded springs in the brake pedal which instantly made me a few tenths quicker
I position the chair so it has 2 "legs" in the back and then I put slippers on them. old and not used shoes work too
@@pppalex16 lol I also put shoes under the wheels. it works wonderfully
Put shoes under the chair so it can walk away easier
I personally didn't expect much difference in time because of your skill level and being able to adapt. I've only recently got into sim racing (3months) and that's where I'd be curious to see if there's a difference. Someone new trying a €250 set up to €2000 set up
Anecdotal, but I just upgraded from a G29 to a DD wheel and load cell pedals (Moza R9//SRP). Personally, I think it's easier to be consistently fast with the nicer setup. My average lap times improved much more than my fastest lap at each track.
@Xamd I can see how consistency would be a big factor. One of the reasons why I'd be intrigued with a new person is also because I am on xbox controller (never going to be able to afford a set up) but to try cheap and expensive to then see if there is a difference.
I think you have a point there. I guess it's easier to get the pace in a different hardware once you already got it in the old one, than just trying to achieve it from scratch.
I'm surprised the pedals didn't make a difference in pace, as I find very hard to precisely brake and trailbrake with the G27 (even worse in an office chair).
But not surprised at all about the importance of the rig. Doing 10 laps in 10 different driving positions and distance ruins any consistency and pace...
So yea, my next upgrade is going to be (kind of) a rig, for sure.
The problem with someone recently into sim racing is you still have so much speed to find from just hours in the sim and not equipment. Unless you have Max Verstappen levels of natural talent then it takes hundreds of hours to get up to speed
Great vid Jards, don;t forget you are an alien with natural pace - what would be interesting if you can get a new starter to sim racing who has not raced in a high end set up to do exactly what you did at your apartment - now that would be great fun to watch the expression on the persons face light up........ maybe someone local to your home town?????
I run a cheap wheel with Clubsport V1 pedals. It would have been interesting to see the G920 with your expensive pedals.
Good vid, love these ones. I'd say switching to load cell pedals (even entry like tlcm) did much more to my lap times and consistency than switching to a DD wheel. But, as others said, a DD wheel also builds confidence, consistency and a more entertaining experience, especially in games where the car slides around more. It also helped me take more aggressive setups, which is what's enabling to push harder.
Well just get plain kitchen chair without wheels 🤣 personally switching from t-300 to csl-dd didn't make me any faster, but the immersion is just another level (not to mention quieter, as there are no fans with DD)... what helped me quite significantly was getting the T-LCM pedals with load cell brake, not much for the speed but definitely for the consistency
Absolutely brilliant mate. I do think the rig definitely has something to do with consistency. My rig is cheap and nasty, the whole thing has way too much flex!
Having upgraded a few years ago, it’s good to know that my spare Logitech I won last year will be up to the job in case my Fanatec fails :)
I started on a Genius wheel with FFB, dont remember the model. Then I got a second hand logitech DFP from a simracing buddy back in, I dont know...2006, same wheel you had as your first wheel. That was with me until last year when I upgraded to T300RS GT. Also got my first cockpit-like thing the Next Level Wheel Stand 2.0, no room for the seat extension, so racing with my office chair, tucked in the tray for wheels. I will probably get a set of LC brake pedals this year. Probably from Fanatec since the native ones are pretty crap and I play on PC.
I improved after mounting 4 transducers into my NLR rig. Its underestimated in my opinion. If you set simhub properly It gives a lot of information and I react intuitively. Maybe something about that? Good topic for simracers. We are all focused on expensive DD's or pedals. But what about this improvement for around 200$? I bought 4 cheap 100W transducers, 2x Nobsound amp and cables. Night and day difference for me. I forgot about my dream to change pedals for something like simagic p2000. Actually I don't know if that's a good choice... Usually we don't test few different pedal sets. That's why we need RUclipsres haha.
Give allien random steering wheel (and drink... maybe gloves if virgin) and it still will do decent laptimes.
Give non-allien fancy rig and it will still be slow (faster, more consistant, with less back pain) but still Stu.
I'm impressed on how much he uses the break. I need to learn that.
Awesome video! Really helps remind me as a g29 user that I can definitely find more time how I am. I’m hyped too because I’m getting my first rig here really soon after winning a league!!
Yea my first wheel and pedals do to price was the Logitech G29. Just ordered the new Moza R5 bundle with the extra brake mod and clutch pedal. So hopefully it will help my driving a little and just make it more enjoyable than with the G29.
i think you should do this test with cars without abs. its easy to brake 100% and let the abs do its job. that makes the difference in quality between the pedals a lot smaller, except for the feeling of trail braking. take a car where you cannot brake 100% because otherwise you will immediately block 4 wheels. gte, lmp2, f1 cars like that. I think you get a much better comparison that way
Next time try driving open wheelers without traction control. Like in iRacing where many cars require 60-80% brake pressure.
I've got my G920 mounted on a ~$4k rig. Comfort and immersion are so much better. I'm now consistently ~4s off the pace in iRacing F4 fixed races. Bottom split ftw!
i had that kinda setup to begin with. I put a thick soft blanket under my chair, that stopped it from rolling backwards.
Remove the wheels from your office/gaming chair Jardier. Why people don't think to do this surprises me lol. I use a gaming chair setup with vrs dfp pedals.
i did the same thing and i was a sec of my pace from simucube to logitech G29 there more concentration on a entry level setup then high end makes it easier to control everything. the cheapest motion platform
Have to say that trying a direct drive setup and then a Logitech will give you more Confidence to put faster lap times but just starting with a Logitech you won’t have that much of confidence to push whereas a DD wheel. So definitely have DD is so good and can give you that extra tenth or even more not only in Acc but other games as well.
i solved the problem of the logitech braking by switching it to the clutch pedal, it helps me fullt activating the brakes everytime and i dont shift as much in the chair, but it still isnt great
€15 of anti slip caster cups will hold your seat in place @Jardier
Part-2 of this series, compare the pace of the rig vs Controller. ;)
I am currently running the g920 wheel base with after market wheel, heusinkveld sprint peddles on the gt omega classic rig. I am constantly about 2-3 seconds a lap slower and even 4 seconds slower at spa.
I am looking at buying a dd but after watching this video and you only being 2 tenths slower on the g920 I have come to the conclusion that I am just a slow driver and maybe a more solid rig might be a better purchase.
Great video and ideal for where I am at the moment.
Feel free to stop by and help an old man to be quicker. Challenge you to make me quicker.
You're not slower. He's just got much more hours, experience and effort. You can def get there if you wish so
@@nikzeero I’m putting hours in, comparing the motec but it doesn’t make sense how I can loose that much time. Frustrating.
@@bigal1968ful even me. When I was lapping 4 sec slower I had no clue how to improve. 200hrs later I'm lapping 2 sec slower and havo no clue, but still improved 2 secs
@@nikzeero I’m sure something will click. But at least I can stop looking at new wheels and maybe concentrate on a new rig instead.
Mabix did a similar video with a Thrustmaster T150 I think, which was HIS entry wheel into simracing. similar end result, skill can overcome equipment limitations
I wish Jardier would do this again with a seat without wheels.
Hi there Jardier…Nice and interesting video as usual. It would be interesting if George, Samir and you would set up cheap rig on table like this and go for a 6h race just to see what would be the result compare to what you guys do usually. Keep the great content and push push push on the road to 100K. Cheers
I'm definitely not improving, but using a $3000 setup would make it more fun as I crashed off the cliffs of Monte Carlo.
I have a high end setup. But for me the most important thing is a solid rig concistany is everything. And yes a 8020 is that good just get one
Caster cups work a treat for keeping your chair in place
Not having the bumpstop thingy on entry level pedals is a thing. Consistent braking and trail braking are super hard. Also, both torsion springs in the Thrustmaster T-150 pedals will snap after a month's use. Luckily, my local hardware store carried some. But those snap too. lol. Also, I really feel like I'm missing 90% of the finer details of the FFB. I think a DD wheel will increase my SATISFACTION index considerably. I feel like my visual skills are developing more than my tactile skills. In AC and ACC, I see the FFB bar flickering like crazy and I feel almost no change. I wonder how much more I would feel with something like a Moza 5.5.
In my timeline you have just started your first lap on the DD1 setup. My thoughts are that you are fast, and will be fast regardless. If there is a difference with the Logitech, I think it will be minimal. Edit: Yup, about what I expected. Very nice video.
Would be really interesting if you also did expensive pedals with the g920 wheel.
i have a G923 wheel and Fanatec CSL Elite V2 pedals.
Pedals made a bit of a difference. its not like it makes you stop faster in the game, but just applies the brake in a more "car like" way.
It makes the sim more sim-like.
the accelerator has a longer throw so you have a little more adjustability in your foot as well.
Now I really have no excuse for being so damn slow !!
Nice video! I have switched from Playseat Challenge wit G923 to a proper aluminium rig with DD1, V3's and a bucket seat a few months ago. Altough it didn't make me a lot faster, the consistency improved and the immersion is so much better. I have a lot of fun and didn't regret any € spent on it so far.
Have a nice day everyone 😉
the consistancy seemed to be in the seat beeing solid, not wheel or pedals. from wood + a car sear ex you can make a budget rig aswell
Great Video. I'm now convinced a Rig is essential with load cell brake pedal. P.s. loved your lines around Brands.
I'm enjoying the lovely dead zone on my g29...... Chicanes are never fun 😃
At first I thought the video was an older one. LOL. Your workouts seem to have a positive impact on your health! Keep it up.
🙏🤩
I feel the same with you on the pedal prediction, I’ve always said I can get away with the force feedback on my g923 but I feel like my feet are blindfolded if that makes sense
love your vids good video ive got the g920 and i just cant improve anymore wish i had fund for a new setup maybe 1 day keep up the good work bro your a legend
Unfortunately I have the Logitech G29, mounted on my desk, the exact same seat setup, the disadvantage I have is my computer desk is what I also use for working remote, and I don’t have the space in my apartment for a rig. I’ve been looking at a Moza wheel setup, table mount also, but I have to work during the day and mount the wheel after hours, sucks. It’s not too bad, but I hear your pain about the chair constantly moving around during braking. And I thought about chair wheel locks also, not sure if they make those?
Hi Jardier!
Consistency is the key. It's what we practice for and strive to make habitual.
I'd like to see how the two compare on that score. Either with say, an hour long hot stint on each (ACC), or an endurance race as others have suggested.
Learning curve is also a thing. Does your existing rig leverage your experience to help you learn a new course faster? Does your experience allow you manage the capabilities of the entry level gear and hit same marks 80% of time?
All great questions that I suspect we all wonder about.
Thanks for doing this video. It encourages folks like me, in the lower and mid tiers of the equipment part of the equipment chase. :-)
Logitech and GT Omega ART cockpit. Can't go wrong ;)
Just goes to show you a good driver will ways be a good driver! Those few tenths are the difference between being used to equipment..
Now emersion wise I'm sure the higher end equipment is better.
Can you do a new video about your wheel and in game settings? Have they changed at all with the updates?
Great video Jardier and thanks man 👍
😁
A lot of people think they need super expensive equipment to be fast. A guy in a league i race in is one of the fastest guys in there and he uses a g29
you can get flat replacement bits to replace the chair wheels pretty cheap and they work a treat. getting your brain to realise that your chair doesnt have wheels anymore takes some time. lol
Jardier! If I see correctly at 7:40 you have your sony a7 without a lens on. You should be careful with dust collecting in your sensor. IT is a pain to remove them from your sensor. If I see correct of course ;)