Why recordings don't include the room

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  • Опубликовано: 1 дек 2024

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  • @gerritgovaerts8443
    @gerritgovaerts8443 2 дня назад +13

    About that album "The Koln concert" : Koln is Cologne in English and this Keith Jarrett album is world famous in Jazz circles . Higly recommended !

    • @ghengismcgillicutty4695
      @ghengismcgillicutty4695 2 дня назад

      It is also a live recording.

    • @jkwhtsll
      @jkwhtsll 2 дня назад

      There is a very long story behind this phenomenal performance but two quick points: it is over one hour of total improv;the “whoops and hollers” are from Keith, not the audience.

    • @jkwhtsll
      @jkwhtsll 2 дня назад

      The SACD sounds significantly more “ live” (PS Audio transport, DAC) than streaming from Qobuz. Reports as DSD64.

  • @leekumiega9268
    @leekumiega9268 2 дня назад +5

    Steve Guttenberg worked as an Associate Producer on many sessions at Chesky Records. He has discussed his experiences at Chesky Records, including:
    Making audiophile recordings that were live to two-track, minimally miked, and free of dynamic range compression and EQ many of which were recorded in a church and the sound of the church reverberations is captured on the recordings. He Mentions Chesky Records as one of his favorite audiophile records.

    • @mspenelopy
      @mspenelopy 2 дня назад

      There are a few labels who take pride in their recordings. Decca, Windmill Records, Deutsche Grammofoon, blue note come to mind. But ya, Chesky Records is up there!

  • @AUNTMAVIS
    @AUNTMAVIS День назад +1

    Simulated reverb sounds simulated. I want to hear the room the artist was in, just like the sound of their breath on the mic, of fingers on keys

  • @dondrewecki1909
    @dondrewecki1909 День назад

    In the13 years I recorded live classical performances in two venues I used one of the last hand-crafted Calrec Soundfield microphone calibrated by the late Michael Gerzon, in the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall and the Union College Memorial Cahpel, and that microphone allowed me to bring up the back lobes, facing out into the hall, and that gave me the three-dimensions the writer talks about. Amazing. It sounded as good as in the halls themselves.

  • @clivepacker
    @clivepacker 2 дня назад +2

    Classical recordings often have much more of a live feel. Mercury and Telarc come to mind as labels that used great venues and captured the acoustic of the building. Definitely something I look for when I can find it.

  • @mspenelopy
    @mspenelopy 2 дня назад

    Love the jazz at the pawnshop reference, it was in my early days of becoming a music/audio enthusiast that i came to know that one. You can even hear when the sound technician actually wakes up and the recording just takes off from there. Superb.

  • @smaarch1
    @smaarch1 2 дня назад

    The box set of Bill Evans Live at the Village Vanguard comes to mind. Glasses clinking, occasionally someone talking or laughing. It's wonderful.

  • @SuperMcgenius
    @SuperMcgenius 2 дня назад +2

    Cowboy Junkies, Trinity sessions, two mic’s , recorded in a church, great material, and great Sound.

    • @boydmasonlake1995
      @boydmasonlake1995 День назад +1

      Yes, entire album so good.
      The track, 200 more miles, a personal favorite

  • @user-od9iz9cv1w
    @user-od9iz9cv1w 2 дня назад +1

    My favorite recordings are live and done in an interesting venue. MA Recordings often pick a church or an interesting chapel as the venue to lay down an album.
    Live at the Pawn shop captures not just the venue but the event with the cash register and glasses clinking.
    Unplugged with Eric Clapton is fun. A good test of your system to sound natural.
    Cowboy Junkies The Trinity Session is a favorite. It was recorded in Toronto's Holy Trinity Church using a single microphone. So much more alive with all the room reverb vs their studio sessions.

  • @xaviermontalban717
    @xaviermontalban717 2 дня назад +1

    Toto in Poland live is also a great recording and a great concert!

  • @stimpy1226
    @stimpy1226 2 дня назад

    The questioner is absolutely right about the Koln (cologne) Concert especially the final track. It’s just remarkable that regarding the fact that the pianos were switched with a broken down Steinway and Keith decided he was going to walk out and not perform. His piano tuner feverishly tried to do workarounds and Keith figured out which keys to stay away from. The concert turned out to be one of the most remarkable solo piano concerts ever performed.

  • @bikdav
    @bikdav 2 дня назад +1

    When I was responsible for the church audio and video recording, I purposely recorded the room. It made the job so easy and much less complicated. And, to me, it very close to the real thing.

  • @jopar3292
    @jopar3292 День назад

    For me listening with high end IEMs - most recently a hybrid with the new xMEMS driver in it you often & easily hear the room sound and acoustics. (More so with DSD / vinyl well recorded / produced / mastered Records to be fair) but still... Its not so much that rooms are not recorded but that most IEMs / Headphone do not have the resolution to pick up and present this aspect of audio AS WELL as or Included with all the other instruments & vocals - Its a great pleasure to experience audio at this level - MEMs driver are the future !!

  • @stimpy1226
    @stimpy1226 2 дня назад

    The questionnaire is absolutely right about the Koln (cologne) Concert especially the final track. It’s just remarkable!

  • @chungang7037
    @chungang7037 2 дня назад +4

    On high end headphone systems you can occaisonally hear it but whether you really want to is a matter of opinion.

  • @Wstarlights
    @Wstarlights 2 дня назад +2

    Steve Albini recordings are great for room acoustics - but might not be most folks taste musically. In Utero as loud and dirty as it is, is FILLED with magical room acoustics.

  • @pizzafrenzyman
    @pizzafrenzyman 2 дня назад +1

    Studios have so much sound absorbing materials that room mics have difficulty adding depth to the audio.

  • @charlesmorrow-rf7rm
    @charlesmorrow-rf7rm 2 дня назад +2

    You got to hear the Koln concert.

  • @michaeldickman1460
    @michaeldickman1460 2 дня назад

    I remember coming home and listening with my dad to a Soviet pressing of a classical piece and after about 10 minutes I turned and asked: "Dad, are you and Mom having money problems?" He looked startled and asked, "why on earth would I even ask?" I answered, "Well why else are we sitting way up here in the third balcony?" He busted out laughing and we (of course) started trying to break down how they got this sound? We not only heard the sound of the room, but could have picked out the section we were sitting in!

  • @MrWingman2009
    @MrWingman2009 2 дня назад

    Yes, live is amazing! I want my room to disappear and the recording to transport me somewhere else. The beginning of The Tennessee Waltz is amazing for this 😊

  • @bayard1332
    @bayard1332 2 дня назад +1

    Yes, demand artist rent huge legendary rooms to record in and then pay them a crap wag by streaming their work.

  • @dougdavis8986
    @dougdavis8986 День назад

    I beg to differ. Studio spaces can have a huge effect. That is why certain studio’s are famous for their recordings. ie: Chess Records, Muscle Shoals, Motown, Electric Ladyland, Sun Studios, Apple etc. etc.

  • @ThinkingBetter
    @ThinkingBetter 2 дня назад

    It’s the one attribute of music listening that can make us audiophiles most frustrated. I love listening with my planar or electrostatic headphones but too often I find myself listening to music as if it comes from inside my head. It also makes no room acoustics always perfect.

  • @spentron1
    @spentron1 2 дня назад

    It doesn't necessarily require a huge or live room. All the audiophile magazines I used to read 30 years ago constantly complained about "multi-mono" anytime things were recorded with more than 2-3 mics for everything and the importance of a realistic representation of size between the instruments within a real space. Of course Stereophile's own demo disc included at least one stunning close-miced track anyway. It can be a compromise esp. when there is no intent to appear "live". Often a recording with room sound can be both engrossing and initially offputting.

  • @MrRubasso
    @MrRubasso День назад

    For those who appreciate an “natural” audio I recommend the albums from the Sheffield Lab Recordings.

  • @PSA78
    @PSA78 2 дня назад

    There is usually some room acoustic, I've even heard artists talk about preferences regarding this, how some studios are alive (more reflections) and some sound dead (less reflections).
    The acoustics played a part in why big artists recorded at Muscle Shoals back in the day, their rhythm section was of course the big one.
    I also recall that Joanne Shaw Taylor talked about how someone had brought her the idea of doing an album that sounded more like a live recording even though it was recorded in a studio, that was "Reckless Heart". I know the dynamic range is high on that album (you can even hear the difference between album versions and the music video versions as they compressed the latter), I'm not sure what else they might have done but it sounds more open and relaxing to listen to. But, back to the loudness war... 😏😆

    • @GladeSwope
      @GladeSwope 2 дня назад

      And they spend good money on wall treatments to make it as "dead" as possible.

    • @PSA78
      @PSA78 2 дня назад

      @GladeSwope I believe all of them try to control the acoustic, some just go overboard.

  • @jdlech
    @jdlech 2 дня назад

    Yamaha produced the DSP-1 way back when music first went digital. When set up right, it was capable of reproducing just about any room you wanted... or no room whatsoever (you could cancel out the coloration of your own room - making the walls and furniture acoustically disappear).
    there were I think 16 presets. They went to various famous venues, took recordings of how each sounded, then digitally reproduced those sounds. So if you selected 'stadium', it actually sounded like a specific Japanese stadium. The 'church' preset sounded like a specific church. And you could alter each preset to suit your taste.
    The problem was that digital processing chips were still in their infancy back then, and the S/N ratio was just terrible. Later versions had better processing chips, but fewer options as well. They were trying to sell more of them by making them less complicated. Plus it was competing against Dolby surround sound - which was so easy to use that you just pushed a button and you're done. Later version of the DSP-1 had Dolby, but I think that detracted from it rather than added to it. Anybody could push a button for Dolby surround sound whereas Yamaha needed lots of configuration time. Unfortunately, you could also get all kinds of weird clownish effects that made a lot of people disrespect what it could do.
    I sure would love to see a modern 32 bit version of the original Yamaha DSP-1. Perhaps something with modern features like room noise canceling and equalization.

    • @thinkIndependent2024
      @thinkIndependent2024 2 дня назад

      I was a Fan of that product and installed 1 in my Venue at that time.
      Installed the consumer unit in my home in 92 don't underestimate today's product combined with proper clean digital.
      The real story Paul missed is Boston 1976 the created that wide open sound in a basement studio with that days electronics.
      Simple off the shelf components can retrieve this cues in any recording my how is to load some simple instructional videos for everyone by 2025.

  • @Mikexception
    @Mikexception 2 дня назад

    I noticed that pulse by PF is example of combination between original concert panoramic with (as I assume) engineered special 3D effects . Electronic music by Klaus Schultze (which is fully artificial) has excellent 2D panoramic engineering.- although is no pin point but space sounding is obvious

  • @bergennorway
    @bergennorway 2 дня назад

    Bruce Swedien used microphones in a "room" together with monitors to add extra effects in the sound of the Thriller album.

  • @uccelino
    @uccelino 2 дня назад

    Thanks, Paul. Insightful as ever, but there are genres where live acoustic of churches and palaces from the medieval to the 18th Century are intrinsic to allmost all recordings - I’m talking of Early music - the movement in Classical
    music in Europe that especially since the end of WW2 wanted to include the aesthetics of the time of the composers own time - aesthetics that are in some ways contrary to the mainstream classical music of ideas of performance practice from the late 19th Century to about 1999ies, but even partially lives on today in the institutions of mainstream classical music. Most recordings on labels such as Tactus, Naïve, Glossa, Novantiqua, Accent, just to name a few,, are explicitly using the acoustics of the genial Baroque master architects. They were well versed in acoustic theory, brought on from the ancient Greeks to the Renaissance, and these acoustics were vital for how the compositions of those days thought the music should be performed. Not all record labels use these acoustics as an active part of the performance of the music, but many of the niche labels, often run by or in direct collaboration with the musicians themselves do. - Live concert recordings are also made often, but as these often are dramatic stage performances (like opera) the room acoustics are not such an essential part of the recordings, because they utilise more of the modern pinpoint microphones. Two labels that have more mainstream repetoire but also use the room acoustics to fabulous results are ofcourse well known to the hifi-tribe - MA Recordings (Todd Garfinkle) and Chesky Records - there are of course more labels, but this is just from the top of my head here. - On a personal note I’d like to mention that the effect of recordings of musical works performed in the rooms they were intended to be performed in often are really interesting, as it opens the views of the constraints and possibilities of the compositions themselves. Fascinating, I think, and they often yield surprising results in the hands of great sound engineers and great artists.

  • @L.Scott_Music
    @L.Scott_Music 2 дня назад

    When you record a live band you record the room once. If you multi-track a piece of music, one or a few instruments/performances at a time, you would record the room many times and the result would be serious phase and frequency buildup issues. It would sound awful.

  • @paulf1071
    @paulf1071 2 дня назад

    Surprised Paul didn't mention the ability to remix and remaster a multi-track studio recording more easily, as all the instruments and performers are isolated from one-another. Live sessions can suffer from microphone-bleeding.

  • @AnalogueGround
    @AnalogueGround 2 дня назад

    We’ve become used to studio recordings as they’re meticulous in their detail, quality and sometimes techniques that can’t be achieved live. Although there are exceptions, more often than not, a studio recording can represent the pinnacle of a rendition leaving a live version somewhat lacking.

  • @mikeg2491
    @mikeg2491 2 дня назад

    Speaking of Germany my first live album was Rammstein Live aus Berlin, ironically it’s the only Rammstein album with quality dynamic range 😂

  • @bruceaitken1918
    @bruceaitken1918 2 дня назад

    Ha! It Works! Constant telephoning on a Saturday does get to you!
    Send me one of your regenerators and I'll stop...

  • @edgarortiz4681
    @edgarortiz4681 День назад

    Room factors, cables, unclean electricity, financial restrictions, there will always be something to complain about. I suggest we all enjoy the music. That is the point.

  • @theragingdolphinsmaniac4696
    @theragingdolphinsmaniac4696 2 дня назад

    That’s my big complaint about not recording live on the floor anymore where the mic bleed captures the room itself. But that’s such an inconvenient headache for mixing and mastering, and leaves no room for error. This unhealthy obsession with fake perfection using pitch correction and quantization takes all the reality and life out of music.

  • @GladeSwope
    @GladeSwope 2 дня назад

    As you mention room acoustics, I hear a phone ringing in the distance. Coincidence? Dubbing in "room tone track" is a secret in some studios, but they like to keep it at a subliminal level.

  • @nirodha35
    @nirodha35 2 дня назад +2

    If you want the live feeling buy the best recording company ECM. Yep, from the Köln concert

  • @D1N02
    @D1N02 2 дня назад +2

    I sometimes prefer a recording of a playback through speakers in a good room better than the original.

    • @jdlech
      @jdlech 2 дня назад

      There are times when I want to make a studio album sound live. And other times when I just want to hear it "as is". We live in the 21st century. We should be able to do both.

    • @Mikexception
      @Mikexception 2 дня назад

      I have no doubts that listening in my room is far superior to presence during the same concert. I have such CDs recorded earlier in other venue which were sold later by occasion of same concert in my place. So I am justified to make comparison. I bless myself for buying it while do not miss that concert when I was there. . .

  • @lancermofo
    @lancermofo 2 дня назад

    Has Paul taken back what he said about Yamaha yet?

  • @PooNinja
    @PooNinja 2 дня назад

    1:13 shiny 👀

  • @BruceCross
    @BruceCross День назад

    Why do people keep ringing the phone when no one answers? Get a clue.

  • @rickhigginson8546
    @rickhigginson8546 2 дня назад

    First of all, the, "Koln Concert," was, excellently recorded, must have been on reel tape, NOT in a Church, or large Hall, but: Outside; in a, `square,' with a live audience! Looks like a raised platform. Have purchased the 2 ~ LP vinyl album, and the, single CD reissue. Almost all of the sound is, apparently, from the close ~ miked piano, but occasionally you can hear Mr. Jarett making, `sounds,' moaning, a little bit ~ reportedly, he hadn't obtained much sleep, was tired. The. `sound,' isn't from any room reflection, at all! There IS, NO room! Sill: Wonderful! Perhaps more talented artists should record, like this! {Then! What you really need, is a great performance, such as, "Compared To What," Les McCann, Eddie Harris.} There ARE, quite a few, `Outside, Live Performances,' such as Woodstock, of course.

  • @Film_Lab
    @Film_Lab 2 дня назад

    Isn't it fruitless to expect two stereo speakers in front of you to recreate "the room" in which the recording was made, no matter how many microphones were used to capture the room acoustics?

  • @arcadepiano
    @arcadepiano 2 дня назад +2

    i am allergic to reverb.
    dry and nearby is hd, high fidelity, best quality.

    • @ReverendDr.Thomas
      @ReverendDr.Thomas День назад

      How bizarre.

    • @arcadepiano
      @arcadepiano День назад

      @ReverendDr.Thomas in a present world were almost every home music studio is adding reverb plugins to every song, i think that my music will be future proof because my choice of kontakt virtual instruments are the nearby. thanks to the daw multitrack i can make possible the physics of fiting an entire orchestra here at 10 centimeters distance.
      i learnt in 1997 how it feels like the dry nearby highest quality music ever, when i bite the headstock of my guitar placing the index fingers in my earhiles while at open tuning playing harmonics, bending the neck for vibrato.
      the difference berween that and listening trrough the air is the same jump in quality i experienced when listening for the very first time headphones, after long time only knowing speaker sounds from tv in the 80's.
      the jump of quality from reverb to dry is also similar to the improvement i experienced when moving from vhs to dvd, and moving from cassetes and vinyl to CD.
      reverb is distortion. you want to acoustically treat your room so the speakers would sound almost as good as headphones, but with comodity of not wearing anything.
      by the way i am building triangle speaker cabinet with delrin and 18 drivers including tang band, B&W, dayton...i am considering adding switches to turn on or off individually each pair of drivers.

  • @Raymondey
    @Raymondey 2 дня назад +2

    I’m first!

    • @NoEgg4u
      @NoEgg4u 2 дня назад

      ruclips.net/video/cH8iv4n2kco/видео.html

  • @unclewilbur8976
    @unclewilbur8976 2 дня назад

    Second! 😊

    • @Raymondey
      @Raymondey 2 дня назад

      @@unclewilbur8976 Actually you are just third

    • @unclewilbur8976
      @unclewilbur8976 2 дня назад

      Oh well.
      I'll do better tomorrow.
      Wanna bet $10 on who's first tomorrow? 😊

  • @stevenholquin2127
    @stevenholquin2127 2 дня назад

    Paul Living in
    The Rocky Mountains
    Can Take Time For Information To Arrive
    ….That Could Have Been
    Dialing For Dollars 💵
    Calling 📞 and
    The $100 Dollar 💵
    Question 😮
    So I Guess
    The Answering Service
    Doesn’t Pick Up
    On Saturday Ether
    …That Could Have Been
    Stub Hub Calling Paul at The Front Door
    🚪 With Pauls Oatmeal and Raisins and a
    Egg Sandwich 🥪
    ….if It’s For Me…😮
    Am Not Here….Am in a
    Meeting 😮
    Don’t Answer The Phone 📞 It’s a Bill
    Collector…..!
    ….it Was Paul’s Wife Calling Because Amazon Was Delivering Pauls Brand New McIntosh
    $600, Hundred Thousand Dollar Sound System and It
    Was C.O.D. 😮
    Paul Gets Home
    “”WHAT….AND WHY
    DIDN’T YOU CALL
    ME “” Pauls Wife
    “”I Did
    But You Wouldn’t
    Answer
    The Phone 📞 “”😮