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Many sensitive aircraft systems use shielded twisted pair wiring for the exact reasons you described in this video. It was a simple and straightforward presentation. Nicely done.
I learned so much in one day from your channel than from all of the years I've been watching RUclips trying to understand about audiophiles and all the terminology, and here you are. Finally now I can buy my equipment because I understand what I need. Thank you so much.
It also applies to many wired Telecom technologies . Old telephone and further technologies using the copper twisted pair, including DSL and ISDN would have been impossible without this method.
Aww only if I had seen this video a couple of years ago, there's a possibility I wouldn't have got so sensitive to the interference noise I had been putting up with for so long! Ofcourse I happen to learn the hard way through trial and error... in fact I recently made a very short video of what I had to go through to get rid of home theatre interference noise, if interested click on the red dragon twice hit 'home theatre interference gotta go' video and maybe it might give you some pointers! This guy knows what he's talking about and his illustrations are second to none. 👍
braiding the cables has been quite common and serves an aesthetic for the consumers as well. Curious, is there a specific pattern of braiding that is deemed more effective in cancelling these noise/signals or is it that as long as the wires are close together that various patterns of braiding would work just as well?
This is an interesting question, Aris! I would think that twisting would be the best solution for the most coherency between the two wires. When I think of braiding, I usually think of the cable's shield.
The demonstration is great but it only truly shows *radiated* noise coming *from* the wires, not a measure of how well they reject noise from sources *outside* the circuit they make. Ideally, the “static” noise you hear will be eliminated as much as *possible*. The premise of “balanced audio lines” is one such effective (& simple) technology that greatly reduces or eliminates this outside static noise from lines you do NOT want it on (especially important for any low voltage sources ex: microphones, electric guitar signal, etc.). It achieves this by using an *extra* conductor and sending the signal in its normal polarity *and* in its reverse, this coupled with them being as close together as possible means they pick up the *same* external noise, then when these lines are terminated at the “destination” (preamp, interface, whatever) there needs to be a specific circuit at the receiving end to *reverse* the polarity of the second line and then *combine* the signals together, this leaves the original intended signal in tact and any noise picked up now at 180deg out of phase and as a result *virtually eliminated* ! If there was no deliberate circuit on receiving end in place and the conductors terminated together at the same location, then all you would hear IS *noise* and the intended signal would be eliminated (since they are straggling *reverse polarity* to each other down the line, both referencing the same extra conductor “ground”) To test THIS you would need a signal source (the one used in the video would be fine) but instead of using a detector, you would need to use an interface and recording software with deliberate cable configurations to demonstrate its ability to reject external noise. Still a great demonstration and nice video tho 👍 Cheers
Your demo might have worked even better if you had connected the wires together at the end to form a loop. Also starquad uses four wires twisted together to get the wires even closer together. Finally, in telecoms networks we use different pitches of twists and other tricks to reduce the crosstalk between wires. Nice explanation BTW
A lot of different stuff I've taken apart, I guess cheap stuff but even some pricey powered speakers never have twist in the speaker wires or any signal lines lol. I wonder if one could upgrade stuff by adding twist and maybe shielding. I guess by the time you're listening those circuits have noise suppression but if you electrical noise is only increasing
Great explanation - very useful. I'm in the process of running a cat5e VDSL and my plan is to wrap baking foil round the cable and run it in conduit/plastic trunking to help eliminate external noise.
so if making a rca interconnect with microphone cable is it better to combine the two wires and use as one and the shield or cut only use one wire and cut the other out?
I understan that twisting the cables help eliminates the radiated electromagnetics fields generated by the cables, but how it helps prevent outside interference if this is not a balanced line?
You r right about outgoing noise, but sorry sir, It doesn't protect from incoming noise. It only make the noises on both pair have the same phase, which mean the noises aren't effected the differential value of signals on both wires, this help in the view of crosstalking in digital world. Only Faraday cage can shield the incoming noises.
Very informative. Thanks. I’m building a variable speed drive for my 130 VDC treadmill motor. I have a 10 core shielded cable AWG 16 that will carry 120 vac, 12 VDC and 130 VDC. I’m concerned about how the wires should be laid out in the control box. I actually have two boxes. A small one with a digital rpm meter, two potentiometers to control speed and an on off push button switch for 120 vac. Then the 10 core cable brings the 120 vac to a large box that contains an EMI filter, a SCR, bridge rectifier, DC choke. There’s also a ac to 12 volt dc converter that powers the rpm display. Everything is going back and forth between the two boxes by the shielded 16 gauge 10 core cable. I hope this makes sense. What do I need to be aware of in wiring everything? It’s not audio, but thought I’d ask. Thanks, Paul
Thanks for this great video.the sine wave of each at 90 degrees to each made it clear and understandable. question. I have a am/fm radio plugged into a 120 outlet. I also have a 18 volt battery charger plugged into same outlet for some cordless tools. as soon as I unplug the battery charger the noise inteference goes away. wondering if I twist the cords together from radio and battery charger together would this help? thanks John
I'd try putting them further apart - different outlets even - there is a ton of ways how interference can get from one to the other - conducted, radiated, common or differential mode. You can put a ferrite choke on one of their wires.
I don’t know off hand why 100 ohm impedance was chosen as the standard. I imagine it was chosen as a compromise between size and bandwidth requirements. Generally speaking - the larger the wire gauge, the lower the impedance.
Excellent content, and practical example. I'm convinced on using twisted pairs for speaker runs. . However, what happens when I "braid" 5 cables, each cable containing two twisted pair, within an outside jacket? Basically, a snake cable for a 5.1 system.
The whole point of this was to explain EMI/RFI cancelling ability in differential signalling wires. The key word being "differential". If the wires are not differential, they're best shielded from each other because the fields won't cancel. The likelihood is that your quad-core (2 twisted pairs) cables are also shielded before the outer jacket, so bundling 5 runs of them in pretty much any geometry won't make any difference. I believe somebody else already answered "nothing" in reply to your question. They are correct.
Some of cable manufacturer making parallel wire cause of electromagnetic generate Eddy current and this current opposed losses of audio frequency's name of wires is helix dna company making wire like that , what is behind this theory can u explain ?
@@AudioUniversity i think its a making effects because if u measured with ohm meter and inductance meter so u can get a some value , because its a measuring in micro ohm and micro Henry, if u have neer any measuring lab so u can get this things , thanks , when ever i making lab for wire measurement i give u test report may be i make wire measurement lab so early , because here i have pvc electrical wire manufacturer but early i start audio cable , thnaks sir , for nice answer .
I know this. I see you have guitars so I can tell you the following, I don’t believe shielding an electric guitar reduces RF noise as your strings and pickups are outside the shielding and exposed to the ambient where the RF resides. Secondly the noise in single coils that guitarist complain about is 60 HZ wouldn’t logic discern this is from the line not the air? I had a noisy strat with no shielding and a staticky pickguard. I bought a cheap $35 loaded pickguard and twisted the output wires this eliminated all the noise and only very little hum with distortion plus drive. Guitarist hate logic and science.
@@AudioUniversity yes. I have everything going to a cleaned bolt in the back of my car but for some reason, every chassis point is like 5 ohms.. (I thought it should be 0-1) .. dunno what to do. As soon as I connect battery, chassis gnd goes from about .7 ohm to 5 ohms
I was working for a guitar manufacturer last year. I got into a mini "Debate" with the QC technician over this exact topic. I have always shielded & twisted the wiring looms when wiring guitars. The QC was arguing that there is no need to do this as it doesn't serve any practical purpose and just makes it more awkward to perform repairs in the future. I was somewhat shocked by his statement considering he had over 30 years more experience compared to my 17 years. Even after I defended my side with evidence from numerous articles found immediately on google, he still disputed all of it and called it "sciencey hocus pocus" 🤦😆 It just goes to show how older age does not immediately equate to knowledge or wisdom. The differences between Ignorance & Arrogance... Pride has no place in self development, & will hinder anyone trying to learn more on any given topic. I think he just couldn't swallow the pill, that someone less than half his age had just proved he was incorrect. An lastly, I carried on twisting those guitar looms. 🤣
Alexander Graham Bell. This man had to smokin or snortin somethin. I mean who TF wants to talk to someone that ain't even there!!?? (Hello!) I'll tell who.. Coke head's. That's why they call it a gram, cuz he liked to buy it by the gram!
![White Noise vs Pink Noise [Audio Engineering & Music Production]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qkb2yRKJxSc/mqdefault.jpg)
![White Noise vs Pink Noise [Audio Engineering & Music Production]](/img/tr.png)
Need help setting up your studio? Check out these free resources I've created for you...
Recording Studio Checklist: audiouniversityonline.com/free-home-studio-checklist/
Speaker Placement Guide: audiouniversityonline.com/speaker-placement-guide/
Many sensitive aircraft systems use shielded twisted pair wiring for the exact reasons you described in this video. It was a simple and straightforward presentation. Nicely done.
In networking, shielded TP wires also are normal.
I've said it before but I'll say it again. This man is an excellent teacher. !
I learned so much in one day from your channel than from all of the years I've been watching RUclips trying to understand about audiophiles and all the terminology, and here you are. Finally now I can buy my equipment because I understand what I need. Thank you so much.
That's great, @Marciano De Leon! I appreciate you watching! I'm glad you found the channel! Let me know if you have suggestions for future videos.
Thank you! I always asked myself this question.
Happy to help!
Hey Kyle, it's really a practical video which makes things easy for us to understand... Thanks for creating this video....
Thanks man. experiments are needed. Nothing actually remembers without visualization.
I'm glad the demonstration was helpful! Thanks for watching, shah mahdi!
It also applies to many wired Telecom technologies . Old telephone and further technologies using the copper twisted pair, including DSL and ISDN would have been impossible without this method.
The best and simplest explanation i ever seen!
Well done!
Very informative
such a well done video, thank you very much
Loved the break down and the demonstration to prove the concept. Subscribed
Glad you enjoyed the video, Isaac! Thanks!
Aww only if I had seen this video a couple of years ago, there's a possibility I wouldn't have got so sensitive to the interference noise I had been putting up with for so long! Ofcourse I happen to learn the hard way through trial and error... in fact I recently made a very short video of what I had to go through to get rid of home theatre interference noise, if interested click on the red dragon twice hit 'home theatre interference gotta go' video and maybe it might give you some pointers!
This guy knows what he's talking about and his illustrations are second to none. 👍
Nice explanation and demonstration, young man!
Thanks, @Matt Laughlin! I appreciate you watching!
people often say: "twisted pair cable is good because it cancels noise" but nobody wants to explain why, and how. thanks!
Twisted people also cancel each other but it's diffcult to demonstrate it, it will be enough late 🙂
Wow, masterfully explained.
braiding the cables has been quite common and serves an aesthetic for the consumers as well. Curious, is there a specific pattern of braiding that is deemed more effective in cancelling these noise/signals or is it that as long as the wires are close together that various patterns of braiding would work just as well?
This is an interesting question, Aris! I would think that twisting would be the best solution for the most coherency between the two wires. When I think of braiding, I usually think of the cable's shield.
Experiment shall included untwisted pair but closely attached. This is strongest comparison between twisted and untwisted cable.
What a great and informative video !
Thank you for this! Helped in my Physics class! :)
I’m glad to hear that! Thanks for watching, Matthew!
Good info. Been seeing twisted wire in schematics and wondering what the purpose was.
Thank you so much sir for your packaged information.
Thank you so much for making a video like this, please keep it up because it makes it really easy to understand and visualization is extremely helpful
Thank for watching! I’ll keep the videos coming!
Thanks you so much for theses information
The demonstration is great but it only truly shows *radiated* noise coming *from* the wires, not a measure of how well they reject noise from sources *outside* the circuit they make.
Ideally, the “static” noise you hear will be eliminated as much as *possible*. The premise of “balanced audio lines” is one such effective (& simple) technology that greatly reduces or eliminates this outside static noise from lines you do NOT want it on (especially important for any low voltage sources ex: microphones, electric guitar signal, etc.). It achieves this by using an *extra* conductor and sending the signal in its normal polarity *and* in its reverse, this coupled with them being as close together as possible means they pick up the *same* external noise, then when these lines are terminated at the “destination” (preamp, interface, whatever) there needs to be a specific circuit at the receiving end to *reverse* the polarity of the second line and then *combine* the signals together, this leaves the original intended signal in tact and any noise picked up now at 180deg out of phase and as a result *virtually eliminated* !
If there was no deliberate circuit on receiving end in place and the conductors terminated together at the same location, then all you would hear IS *noise* and the intended signal would be eliminated (since they are straggling *reverse polarity* to each other down the line, both referencing the same extra conductor “ground”)
To test THIS you would need a signal source (the one used in the video would be fine) but instead of using a detector, you would need to use an interface and recording software with deliberate cable configurations to demonstrate its ability to reject external noise.
Still a great demonstration and nice video tho 👍
Cheers
Thanks for sharing, Tylr!
Your demo might have worked even better if you had connected the wires together at the end to form a loop.
Also starquad uses four wires twisted together to get the wires even closer together.
Finally, in telecoms networks we use different pitches of twists and other tricks to reduce the crosstalk between wires.
Nice explanation BTW
Thanks for sharing this additional info, Jamie!
Very good explanation, i learned lot of new information from this video, nice work friend, keep sharing
Thank you so much
Great explanation! 👍
Very Good Explanation, easy to understand !!!
Glad it was helpful!
You make things easy
Glad to help! Thanks!
Gday, very helpful and informative video, helped me a lot mate, Cheers
Thanks for the info
Love ❤ from India 🇮🇳
nice illustration!
Thank you very much! I'm glad you liked it, arun dave!
Very well described.
Thanks, Khashayar Olia! I appreciate that.
A lot of different stuff I've taken apart, I guess cheap stuff but even some pricey powered speakers never have twist in the speaker wires or any signal lines lol. I wonder if one could upgrade stuff by adding twist and maybe shielding. I guess by the time you're listening those circuits have noise suppression but if you electrical noise is only increasing
Excellent video! Thank you
Thanks, Robert!
Great explanation - very useful. I'm in the process of running a cat5e VDSL and my plan is to wrap baking foil round the cable and run it in conduit/plastic trunking to help eliminate external noise.
Interesting method! Let us know how it works!
It wont work because the foil have too high resistance. The braid shield is better alternative.
Soo helpful !
Very well explained. Thanks
Thank you! It is so romantic, they help each other be invulnerable to the other fields...
Teamwork! Thanks for watching!
Thank you
Superb explanation!
Thanks..
so if making a rca interconnect with microphone cable is it better to combine the two wires and use as one and the shield or cut only use one wire and cut the other out?
great work, really appreciable.
I'm glad you appreciated the video! Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much great job👍👍
Thank you, @Tanisha Daharwal! I appreciate you watching and commenting!
I understan that twisting the cables help eliminates the radiated electromagnetics fields generated by the cables, but how it helps prevent outside interference if this is not a balanced line?
That’s a good point, Terry. In this case, it is a balanced line.
Great stuff, thanks!
Thanks, Victor! I appreciate your kind words!
NIce Explanation
Thanks!
what was the tool you used or instrument to hear the magnetic waves
Could I sample the sounds coming from the magnetic probe used in the demonstration?
Interesting. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
You r right about outgoing noise, but sorry sir, It doesn't protect from incoming noise. It only make the noises on both pair have the same phase, which mean the noises aren't effected the differential value of signals on both wires, this help in the view of crosstalking in digital world. Only Faraday cage can shield the incoming noises.
awesome video
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Brilliant
Thanks!
Great content man.
Nice explanation 👌🏻👌🏻
Thanks, @Gauri Goyal!
Very informative. Thanks.
I’m building a variable speed drive for my 130 VDC treadmill motor. I have a 10 core shielded cable AWG 16 that will carry 120 vac, 12 VDC and 130 VDC. I’m concerned about how the wires should be laid out in the control box. I actually have two boxes. A small one with a digital rpm meter, two potentiometers to control speed and an on off push button switch for 120 vac.
Then the 10 core cable brings the 120 vac to a large box that contains an EMI filter, a SCR, bridge rectifier, DC choke. There’s also a ac to 12 volt dc converter that powers the rpm display. Everything is going back and forth between the two boxes by the shielded 16 gauge 10 core cable. I hope this makes sense.
What do I need to be aware of in wiring everything? It’s not audio, but thought I’d ask.
Thanks,
Paul
Subscribed ...
Hi, thanks for the video. what is the tool called , which you used to detect the magnetic noise around the wires.
There’s a link in the description to the tool I’m using.
The best!
Thanks for this great video.the sine wave of each at 90 degrees to each made it clear and understandable.
question. I have a am/fm radio plugged into a 120 outlet.
I also have a 18 volt battery charger plugged into same outlet for some cordless tools.
as soon as I unplug the battery charger the noise inteference goes away.
wondering if I twist the cords together from radio and battery charger together would this help?
thanks
John
I'd try putting them further apart - different outlets even - there is a ton of ways how interference can get from one to the other - conducted, radiated, common or differential mode. You can put a ferrite choke on one of their wires.
damn man, audio university ,really university😁😂,but cool content 💪.
I’m glad you enjoy the content! Thanks!
Thanks bro, good pratical example.
Why twisted pair impedance match 100 ohm for lan cable? Can you explain, thanks
I don’t know off hand why 100 ohm impedance was chosen as the standard. I imagine it was chosen as a compromise between size and bandwidth requirements. Generally speaking - the larger the wire gauge, the lower the impedance.
Excellent content, and practical example. I'm convinced on using twisted pairs for speaker runs. . However, what happens when I "braid"
5 cables, each cable containing two twisted pair, within an outside jacket? Basically, a snake cable for a 5.1 system.
Thanks for watching, @M Murrell!
Nothing
The whole point of this was to explain EMI/RFI cancelling ability in differential signalling wires. The key word being "differential". If the wires are not differential, they're best shielded from each other because the fields won't cancel. The likelihood is that your quad-core (2 twisted pairs) cables are also shielded before the outer jacket, so bundling 5 runs of them in pretty much any geometry won't make any difference. I believe somebody else already answered "nothing" in reply to your question. They are correct.
Awesome . Now I know why they didn't hired me. 😀
What tool is that called
There is a link in the video description.
Super man
Thanks for watching and commenting, @sathish kumar! I appreciate your support!
PRO TIP: The tighter the twists, the less noise.
Good video, thanks . All Internet , routers and computer cables are Twisted pair . Actually there are 5 Twisted pairs in a Cat5 cable
I enjoy your videos. Please can you add subtitles to your videos. Thanks.
Yes. I’ll add subtitles! Thanks for watching!
@Bitebo Numbere, I added subtitles to this video! Thank you!
@@AudioUniversity Thanks so much Audio University
You’re welcome! Thanks for supporting the channel! Please share with others to help Audio University grow!
Ayy feels like I’m sitting in a CAN Bus class
Some of cable manufacturer making parallel wire cause of electromagnetic generate Eddy current and this current opposed losses of audio frequency's name of wires is helix dna company making wire like that , what is behind this theory can u explain ?
This is interesting! I haven't heard of this technology before your comment!
@@AudioUniversity i think its a making effects because if u measured with ohm meter and inductance meter so u can get a some value , because its a measuring in micro ohm and micro Henry, if u have neer any measuring lab so u can get this things , thanks , when ever i making lab for wire measurement i give u test report may be i make wire measurement lab so early , because here i have pvc electrical wire manufacturer but early i start audio cable , thnaks sir , for nice answer .
I’m interested to see what your testing shows!
Do you know Kale 🥬?
I know this. I see you have guitars so I can tell you the following, I don’t believe shielding an electric guitar reduces RF noise as your strings and pickups are outside the shielding and exposed to the ambient where the RF resides. Secondly the noise in single coils that guitarist complain about is 60 HZ wouldn’t logic discern this is from the line not the air? I had a noisy strat with no shielding and a staticky pickguard. I bought a cheap $35 loaded pickguard and twisted the output wires this eliminated all the noise and only very little hum with distortion plus drive. Guitarist hate logic and science.
Real question is how do u reduce the static
What kind of static are you hearing, @V__?
@@AudioUniversity constant buzz as soon as system powers on. It doesn't change with volume, higher gain more buzz tho (roughly 60hz buzz on the car)
Buzz is usually associated with a ground loop. Did you say this is a car sound system?
@@AudioUniversity yes. I have everything going to a cleaned bolt in the back of my car but for some reason, every chassis point is like 5 ohms.. (I thought it should be 0-1) .. dunno what to do. As soon as I connect battery, chassis gnd goes from about .7 ohm to 5 ohms
Any suggestions?
🇱🇰💪🏿🔥
I was working for a guitar manufacturer last year. I got into a mini "Debate" with the QC technician over this exact topic. I have always shielded & twisted the wiring looms when wiring guitars. The QC was arguing that there is no need to do this as it doesn't serve any practical purpose and just makes it more awkward to perform repairs in the future. I was somewhat shocked by his statement considering he had over 30 years more experience compared to my 17 years. Even after I defended my side with evidence from numerous articles found immediately on google, he still disputed all of it and called it "sciencey hocus pocus" 🤦😆
It just goes to show how older age does not immediately equate to knowledge or wisdom.
The differences between Ignorance & Arrogance...
Pride has no place in self development, & will hinder anyone trying to learn more on any given topic.
I think he just couldn't swallow the pill, that someone less than half his age had just proved he was incorrect.
An lastly, I carried on twisting those guitar looms. 🤣
It really depends on the type of signal, twisting the wires could make it worse actually.
Alexander Graham Bell. This man had to smokin or snortin somethin. I mean who TF wants to talk to someone that ain't even there!!?? (Hello!) I'll tell who.. Coke head's. That's why they call it a gram, cuz he liked to buy it by the gram!
I'm getting Zuckerberg vibes... move your eyebrows bro
Thanks!
Brilliant