I recently acquired a TL2 off Ebay that's in amazing shape. It looks like it had hardly been used, except for the fact that the volume knob was broken & needed to be glued back on. The case had obviously never been opened, and all the slot covers were still in place. Even the Tandy keyboard is in mint condition. I managed to pair it with a Tandy CM-11 monitor that was in similarly good shape, stuck an XTIDE card in it and built myself a great little machine for early DOS gaming.
Another great video. I haven´t ever think about the possibility to burn a DOS into an EPROM, althoug I have some network cards around (ArcNet & 3Com ethers) that would support "BIOS BOOT". You just opened a new world of possibilities to me, and I would really like to learn from you in the future about this. Cannot wait for your next video on the Apple stuff !!!
It's difficult in most cases because you'd be limited to 64k. At least some Tandy 1000 systems have a neat trick. The ROM can be much bigger, but only 64k gets mapped into the address space at a time. They added a BIOS call to query and set the currently active "page." This is a bit like EMS. That also implies it may not be possible to put both XT-IDE BIOS and the DOS image on the system ROMs.
Nice - The 1000 TL was my first MSDOS machine. Before that I had been using my Tandy Model 4P. Purchased a combination memory/hard card board shortly after which made it a fairly nice machine, especially in the late 1980s.
@@TalesofWeirdStuff I wouldn't have thought about it until I watched your video, but I do think it had the support tab on the HD end of the card. Went back and looked in an old 80 Micro magazine, the 21 MB hard card board was from MegaHaus. It's been a few years ago now, but I knew it was an odd size and not from Tandy! And yes, the upgrade from the 4P to the 1000 was a BIG upgrade.
I had forgotten about that. By the time DOS 6 came out, most people were using computers that could address memory beyond the 1MB limit, so I don't think they cared as much about preserving conventional memory. Tandy 1000 computers tend to be even more hurting in that respect because the video memory often eats 64k of conventional memory.
I'm glad you enjoyed. I really wanted to get it out last week, but the rest of life got in the way. I'm still hoping to get the first Apple Network Server video out next Thursday. Wish me luck!
I would love to see you do a video putting DOS 5.0 on the ROMs. DOS 5.0 holds a place in my heart. I downloaded a beta from a BBS back in the day and was amazed at the use of disk images.
All 8086 and 80286 Tandy 1000s configure the memory to access it through their 16-bit data bus. The performance penalty accessing the memory with only an 8-bit data bus would be severe. DRAM chips in these computers are only 1-bit or 4-bit, so wiring them to match the natural data bus of the CPU is simple. The amount of memory available does not change regardless of whether it is configured as 8-bit, 16-bit or any higher number of bits. Your memory upgrade adds 64Kbit x 16bits to the system, which is the same amount of storage capacity as 128Kbit x 8bits.
Don't forget to run the latest version of modmxt, which supports the built-in Tandy DAC, giving you a best-in-class modplayer for the TL series. Chicago misses you!
I'll give that a try! I've been back to visit a few times. I was sad that Neo closed down a couple months before my last visit. I would have liked to go there one last time. And Gino's East moved to a very boring location. I still managed to find plenty of good food, though. :) #priorities
Part of me thinks you might be making that up... because that's definitely something I would do. The rest of me doesn't care and is going to use that word from now on! :)
to format unformatted floppies do mke2fs /dev/fd0 or Formatting with a DOS filesystem aptitude install dosfstools (ubuntu / debian) then format the floppy with mkfs.msdos /dev/fd0 To format a floppy disk for DOS, writing an empty MS-DOS filesystem to the disk in the process, use mformat, which is in the mtools package: aptitude install mtools then use mformat a:
I tried both mformat (from mtools) and mkfs.msdos. Both failed in the same was as the dd I showed in the video. The problem is the kernel reports the device as having zero blocks, so there isn't really anything a user mode program can do about that.
9:06 slot covers with a curved bottom were also used on completely normal PCs even in the Pentium era. This does not mean that they are automatically from Tandy.
I did eventually figure that out, and I talked about it, at some length, starting at 21:46. Did you ever have one of those? Was the bracket actually necessary to keep the hardcard in place?
@@TalesofWeirdStuff I had a hardcard in one of these, I added it about a year after I bought it (I bought the tandy when it was new so added the card sometime close to 1990 I think) . That tab was to keep the card from flopping around and anchored in the case. I suspect that it would work fine on a desk without it but if you shipped it I dont know if the slot would survive.
19:00, I can't speak for the other ones but the EX did not have DOS bootable on the ROM, only the HX, and it was version 2.1. Deskmate still required a disk. It's possible some of the Deskmate routines were in ROM, kind of like the Macintosh Toolbox was, but I don't know about that. The 1000HX was my very first computer.
I thought to format a floppy on a unix system you used fdformat? IDK if linux has it but most other systems have it I believe. Also is that a sun flag on the wall?
I had forgotten about fdformat. I'm not sure that would work on a USB floppy drive. The manual page says it infers the drive parameters from the specific dev entry used (e.g., /dev/fd0h720 is a 720k drive). Since there's only one dev entry for the USB drive, it has to infer from the size reported by the kernel.
@@TalesofWeirdStuff That seems like a limitation of the linux fdformat. I just checked the man pages for the netbsd and solaris fdformat and they both have options to specify parameters / capacity. The usb interface may be a problem tho.
Not a fan of CF IDE adapters either having had the same experience. If you have really old industrial cards from major brands they almost always work, but with modern consumer cards the industrial features are deliberately disabled (eg: the fixed disk bit can't be toggled). Or you get sketchy no-brand "industrial" cards that never operate entirely within spec and are a gamble as to whether they'll work from one machine to another.
First, I wouldn't waste a Tandy drive for an Amiga; there are plenty of Amiga drives out there. Second, if the Tandy drives were made to get their power off the 34 pin connector, then when you solder a Berg connector and provide power that way, wouldn't it back-feed power to the 34 pin connector? So then you'd need to cut traces. At that point, you might as well just modify a PC drive. Just keep those drives for Tandy.
Yeah... I think you are correct on all counts. I hadn't even thought about the possibility of back feeding power. If I'm not mistaken, that would just feed +5v directly to ground, so it would likely fry the power supply.
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Missing Everything [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dTYeMZGzOzw/mqdefault.jpg)
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Sneaking [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ILUps2zDFU/mqdefault.jpg)
I recently acquired a TL2 off Ebay that's in amazing shape. It looks like it had hardly been used, except for the fact that the volume knob was broken & needed to be glued back on. The case had obviously never been opened, and all the slot covers were still in place. Even the Tandy keyboard is in mint condition. I managed to pair it with a Tandy CM-11 monitor that was in similarly good shape, stuck an XTIDE card in it and built myself a great little machine for early DOS gaming.
That's a great find! I continue to be impressed with these machines. I believe I have also seen models of the volume knob that can be 3D printed.
Another great video. I haven´t ever think about the possibility to burn a DOS into an EPROM, althoug I have some network cards around (ArcNet & 3Com ethers) that would support "BIOS BOOT". You just opened a new world of possibilities to me, and I would really like to learn from you in the future about this. Cannot wait for your next video on the Apple stuff !!!
It's difficult in most cases because you'd be limited to 64k. At least some Tandy 1000 systems have a neat trick. The ROM can be much bigger, but only 64k gets mapped into the address space at a time. They added a BIOS call to query and set the currently active "page." This is a bit like EMS. That also implies it may not be possible to put both XT-IDE BIOS and the DOS image on the system ROMs.
Nice - The 1000 TL was my first MSDOS machine. Before that I had been using my Tandy Model 4P. Purchased a combination memory/hard card board shortly after which made it a fairly nice machine, especially in the late 1980s.
That would have been quite an upgrade from the 4P! Do you remember if your hard card had that little metal bracket attached?
@@TalesofWeirdStuff I wouldn't have thought about it until I watched your video, but I do think it had the support tab on the HD end of the card. Went back and looked in an old 80 Micro magazine, the 21 MB hard card board was from MegaHaus. It's been a few years ago now, but I knew it was an odd size and not from Tandy! And yes, the upgrade from the 4P to the 1000 was a BIG upgrade.
DOS 5.0 leaves you slightly more conventional memory free if you can't load anything high, so I typically use it on all my 640K PCs.
I had forgotten about that. By the time DOS 6 came out, most people were using computers that could address memory beyond the 1MB limit, so I don't think they cared as much about preserving conventional memory. Tandy 1000 computers tend to be even more hurting in that respect because the video memory often eats 64k of conventional memory.
fantastic video thank you for uploading
I'm glad you enjoyed. I really wanted to get it out last week, but the rest of life got in the way. I'm still hoping to get the first Apple Network Server video out next Thursday. Wish me luck!
I would love to see you do a video putting DOS 5.0 on the ROMs. DOS 5.0 holds a place in my heart. I downloaded a beta from a BBS back in the day and was amazed at the use of disk images.
MS-DOS 5 was my first DOS I ever ran.
The more I think about it... the more I talk myself into doing that project. :)
TinyDos
All 8086 and 80286 Tandy 1000s configure the memory to access it through their 16-bit data bus. The performance penalty accessing the memory with only an 8-bit data bus would be severe. DRAM chips in these computers are only 1-bit or 4-bit, so wiring them to match the natural data bus of the CPU is simple. The amount of memory available does not change regardless of whether it is configured as 8-bit, 16-bit or any higher number of bits. Your memory upgrade adds 64Kbit x 16bits to the system, which is the same amount of storage capacity as 128Kbit x 8bits.
Don't forget to run the latest version of modmxt, which supports the built-in Tandy DAC, giving you a best-in-class modplayer for the TL series.
Chicago misses you!
I'll give that a try! I've been back to visit a few times. I was sad that Neo closed down a couple months before my last visit. I would have liked to go there one last time. And Gino's East moved to a very boring location. I still managed to find plenty of good food, though. :) #priorities
you should ask adrian from adrians digital basement he knows just about everything !!!
Fun fact, that's definitely not common knowledge, that weird little bend in the slot cover is called a joggle.
Part of me thinks you might be making that up... because that's definitely something I would do. The rest of me doesn't care and is going to use that word from now on! :)
to format unformatted floppies do mke2fs /dev/fd0 or Formatting with a DOS filesystem aptitude install dosfstools (ubuntu / debian) then format the floppy with mkfs.msdos /dev/fd0 To format a floppy disk for DOS, writing an empty MS-DOS filesystem to the disk in the process, use mformat, which is in the mtools package: aptitude install mtools then use mformat a:
I tried both mformat (from mtools) and mkfs.msdos. Both failed in the same was as the dd I showed in the video. The problem is the kernel reports the device as having zero blocks, so there isn't really anything a user mode program can do about that.
9:06 slot covers with a curved bottom were also used on completely normal PCs even in the Pentium era. This does not mean that they are automatically from Tandy.
The bracket is voor a harddiskCARD. not for lose harddisk. Take a good look at the picture in the manual
I did eventually figure that out, and I talked about it, at some length, starting at 21:46. Did you ever have one of those? Was the bracket actually necessary to keep the hardcard in place?
@@TalesofWeirdStuff Nop before my time. Just saw the picture in the manual
@@TalesofWeirdStuff I had a hardcard in one of these, I added it about a year after I bought it (I bought the tandy when it was new so added the card sometime close to 1990 I think) . That tab was to keep the card from flopping around and anchored in the case. I suspect that it would work fine on a desk without it but if you shipped it I dont know if the slot would survive.
19:00, I can't speak for the other ones but the EX did not have DOS bootable on the ROM, only the HX, and it was version 2.1. Deskmate still required a disk. It's possible some of the Deskmate routines were in ROM, kind of like the Macintosh Toolbox was, but I don't know about that.
The 1000HX was my very first computer.
I didn't have the EX for very long, so my memory of it is a bit fuzzy, so I suspect you are correct.
I thought to format a floppy on a unix system you used fdformat? IDK if linux has it but most other systems have it I believe. Also is that a sun flag on the wall?
I had forgotten about fdformat. I'm not sure that would work on a USB floppy drive. The manual page says it infers the drive parameters from the specific dev entry used (e.g., /dev/fd0h720 is a 720k drive). Since there's only one dev entry for the USB drive, it has to infer from the size reported by the kernel.
@@TalesofWeirdStuff That seems like a limitation of the linux fdformat. I just checked the man pages for the netbsd and solaris fdformat and they both have options to specify parameters / capacity. The usb interface may be a problem tho.
Not a fan of CF IDE adapters either having had the same experience. If you have really old industrial cards from major brands they almost always work, but with modern consumer cards the industrial features are deliberately disabled (eg: the fixed disk bit can't be toggled). Or you get sketchy no-brand "industrial" cards that never operate entirely within spec and are a gamble as to whether they'll work from one machine to another.
In the old days before the SD to IDE adapters existed, they were a great choice. These days... I'd rather spend the $12 and save the headaches.
First, I wouldn't waste a Tandy drive for an Amiga; there are plenty of Amiga drives out there. Second, if the Tandy drives were made to get their power off the 34 pin connector, then when you solder a Berg connector and provide power that way, wouldn't it back-feed power to the 34 pin connector? So then you'd need to cut traces. At that point, you might as well just modify a PC drive. Just keep those drives for Tandy.
Yeah... I think you are correct on all counts. I hadn't even thought about the possibility of back feeding power. If I'm not mistaken, that would just feed +5v directly to ground, so it would likely fry the power supply.
9.6 ^^
Thats a 300baud modem
Ouch. Even more useless than I thought!
Most USB Floppy Drives I use never are able to ready outside 1.44MB
Why do you keep laughing at your own comments which aren't remotely funny?