The dairy farmer should have stood up and said "I get all that Governor, but those one-in-five children who are in poverty, their moms do not spend one penny of their food stamps on milk."
That's the kind of idealistic brilliance that makes this show so heartbreaking to watch in hindsight. Reality just _can't_ be this good. Bartlett is put on the spot and just comes out with blunt honesty to explain his decisions rather than mealy-mouthed political doubletalk, and ends with what is one of the bluntest and most idealistic sentiments ever, something a real politician in our corrupt world would NEVER say: "If you can't put your human conscience above your wallet, I don't _want_ your vote," with the unspoken implication "I'll win and make this world better with the votes of people who _can"._ Fantastic.
I’ve seen Biden come close to this idea several times, in his talk of “What is worth losing an election over? You need to know what steps you absolutely will not take just to win.” - In this and essentially all other ways he’s more like Bartlett than Trump is.
@@shuttlecrossing1433 Fortunately that didn't happen in the 2020 election, as Trump lied his ass off like he always does and lost anyway. Unfortunately, he's now lying his ass off about losing, and his idiot supporters are either gullible enough to believe him despite his COMPLETE lack of a single scerrick of evidence, or are just willing to play along with his lies because they won't accept democracy if they aren't winning it.
To me, this scene stands out as the pivotal moment in the whole West Wing series. When Bartlett revealed his true character and personality and everyone takes note. The launchpad moment...
D Weir Leo already knew the type of guy bartlet was, thats why he invited josh to that meeting so that he could see it for himself & lure him away from hoynes.
Can you remember the last time that a president was GENUINE in what he said in public? The last time a president admitted that SOME people got the shaft and it wasn't some soundbite?
That was the whole point of the scene. His campaign was imploding, and Leo had to do something drastic, so after that scene was when he fired everyone but Toby, and Josh was moved enough to get onboard, and they began to pick up steam.
"You don't work for the guy who's _gonna_ win; you work for the guy who SHOULD win!" - Toby. Will did the former, and lost. Josh did the latter. And won. Twice.
@@christopherweber9464 There aren't many who are more intellectually deficient, inherently dishonest, or more focused on self-promotion and willful guile than he, but you sure scraped the bottom of the barrel to find that one...
Ahmed Ashraf Someone vastly more intellegent than I said he was an amalgam of Jefferson, Lincoln, both Roosevelts, JFK, LBJ, Clinton, and a pinch of Nixon ...
If nothing else, that guy thought long and hard about his vote. He got the most straightforward, non-BS answer you could get from a candidate. I only wish politicians today would have the courage to be so forthright.
Bartlett removed price supports that were intended to help poor people, and his big policy goal throughout his administration was a free trade deal. That farmer voted for Trump. And he did it because of the arrogance of neoliberal shitheads like Barlett.
@@catherineboeckmann853 pete wants to be like bartlet but pete isnt an honest actor. Bartlet lived in a world without billionaires buying politicians. Pete does and he is bought out. The only candidate that is really honest like this is bernie.
One of the best scenes in the entire series... because not only is Josh sold on how awesome Bartlett is, so is the viewing audience. A shame we don't have politicians that amazing in real life.
Day after Trump / Biden debate, RUclips algorithm “here, have some random Bartlet”. I’m crying in Australian accent (which is pretty close to swearing to be fair 🤣)
Love You Aussies, in some ways your national experiences mirror America's far more than Britain's. Your forebears endured a perilous voyage to conquer a wild and savage land, full of strange and often dangerous flora and fauna, you had a 'wild west' period, with a gold rush and fabled outlaws, like your Ned Kelly to our Jesse James, etc. Only you didn't try to exterminate the indigenous peoples of the new land =[
@@Laneous14 Naah, you just don't get it! Where you go, the rest of the world pays the price - we should all get a vote in your elections (I'm in NZ) to make sure Trump never returns - the rest of us know what it means, and are gob-smacked that half your population can't see it.
What is so refreshing about this scene isn't so much the liberal values expressed by Bartlett (though they are expressed elegantly), it's the honesty. It's the idea that the choices our officials make have consequences, and that a responsible leader can justify those choices with candor and without obfuscation or blame. Sadly, it's also what makes this show pure fantasy.
Agree totally! The progressive left believes that all their leaders are like Bartlett honesty intelligent engaged on the issues, and agonizing over their choices. The truth is they are lazy incompetent, corrupt and uninvolved in their decisions. They are simply tools of corporate America. Policy is written by the corporate masters, and the politicians are just the shills selling it to the people.
There are really multiple layers to this scene. The main focus is on Bartlett winning Josh over with his candor and integrity, but it's also important to note that Bartlett was following advice he received from Toby. The answer was Bartlett's, for sure, but it's unlikely he would have given such an honest answer if Toby hadn't advised him that it was wise to do so. Josh wasn't just won over by Bartlett in this scene. He was won over by Toby as well, even though they weren't aware of each other yet. Leaders can be made or destroyed by the people they choose to trust. Bartlett chose to trust Leo. Leo chose to trust Toby and Josh. Toby and Josh chose to trust CJ and Sam. Remove any of those people, and the Bartlett the country saw might not have been the Bartlett we know.
@SpydeyDan Bartlet wasn't a Bob Richey; somebody who was controlled by his handlers. Toby offered his opinion; Bartlet considered it, and decided to go that way. Remember, in the same episode I think, all the pushback he gave about saying "my opponent" instead of "Hoynes." Jed was in control of his own campaign.
@@blackhawkswincup2010 often, yes, but the fact that he asked Toby for input on whether he should "piss off the dairy farmers" indicates that he was on the fence. If no one had advised him to Let Bartlet be Bartlet, Uncle Fluffy probably would've taken over, and Josh would've left unimpressed. Many times throughout the show, Toby serves the role of keeping Bartlet honest with the voters and with himself, and the whole point of the show as a whole is that no one, not even the President, does it all on their own.
@@regibson23 I'm pretty sure I saw them in the Hoynes entourage - but that's all you got to know that they were in his campaign. Which explained why Hoynes did not win and Bartlett did.
@@awakeningcry Thank you for the information. I did not catch the name change, which of course means that I did not realize it was supposed to be a different person.
One of things I loved seeing in this show are the moments when each of the main characters had their "aha" moments. The moment when they realized that they'd be willing to follow this president to hell and back if he asked them to.
Just a note: It’s “Bartlet” only one “t” at the end. Watching each episode is like being at an amazing concert, the dialogue flows like liquid gold over my weary ears; each move, every prop is exquisitely right. EDIT: I see that lots of comments correctly spelled the character name. The first few I read hadn’t.
"You should vote for someone else." I love that line because it for once, shows that Bartlet is addressing the fact that the voters are the ones who make the choice in the end. Most of the people I come across on the internet, they go "Oh specifically this thing ruined this person's career." "Oh specifically that thing is what ruined that person's career." , as if the people they're talking about are dog-owners and everyone else is a free-will-less dog that the owners control. They never address the simple matter that people in matters of career, gain or loose, due to those who have authority choosing to give them what they want. Yes they talk, they research, they think, they work, have expectations...but in the end you cannot control what other people choose to believe, value and do, and those choices are what make or break your career. Everyone whose face is in front of a camera likes to imagine that they're a god with absolute power over their audience....but none of us are. We must learn to differentiate between what we as individuals do have control over, and what we as individuals do not have control over. And one thing that we don't have control over, are other people's choices.
Of course it was. Bartlett was written as a masturbatory fantasy for non-insane liberals by one of the glibbest-writing coke fiends in the business, and premiered near the middle of Bill Clinton's last term, when his sexual antics were accepted as real even by his most devoted fans.
Actually, @David Wiehe, I had been a staunch conservative Republican all my life when TWW was on and I adored this show. Try looking beyond ideology and seeing people’s character once in awhile - you might just find a breath of fresh air instead of a windbag.
I wish politicians spoke like this more. It indicates they respect the intelligence of their voter constituents. Instead of evading, sugar coating and beating around the bush.
It is almost demoralizing to watch these clips. This show was so well-written, it showed motivated, intelligent, driven, principled, people working for our government and our country! And since the invention of trump licking politics this is not! True. Most people in our government for the last 18 years have been anything but those things I mentioned.
This show was great at explaining to my family and I what farming was all about. Forgotten suppliers to the future. To live on an ever thinning razor of margin. To Sacrifice for the demands of your voters while mortgaging our future. Bravo Aaron Sorkin
The moral of this speech is that you can't please everyone at once, as a leader you have to decide who deserves your help more every day, sometimes it's you, sometimes it's someone else, it's not his job to play favorites, he has to think of the nation as a whole, if you want someone who will serve only a select few people's interests then go ahead and vote for them but don't be surprised when things don't go well in the long run.
The bigger picture here is that every American should afford the basics, even if it cuts into the profits of the few. People who are poor and unemployed are not less-than.
There’s hope in his statements here. Hope that he can persuade that dairy farmer to grasp that the enlightened self interest of finding ways for the poor to afford milk is indeed in that farmer’s self interest. If politics is nothing at all aside from selfishness in this moment, then societal collapse is indeed a self-fulfilling prophecy
Dairy farmers in the U.S. also receive all sorts of federal subsidies to avoid pouring the milk in the river instead of letting it go to market for less than it cost them to produce. There are huge agricultural subsidies. They're not entirely just independent business people working hard. Governments are always considering needs, markets etc.
This is why Jon Stewart, on the cover of his book, said that The West Wing was "total f***ing bull****." And he was right. Who could expect any politician today, from any party, to show this kind of integrity? For me, TWW was appointment television. Every Wednesday night at 9 I was there. And Jon Stewart can keep his cynicism.
@@imcallingjapan2178 I get your point, but at the same time, each individual is capable of better. The thing is, anybody can realistically, at any time, resolve to show integrity and do what is right. Amazing things happen in that moment. We must be the change we wish to see in the world. We can't just give in to permanent cynicism and disillusionment.
@@blackhawkswincup2010 TWW is one of my two favourite ever shows. Every episode had intelligence, every character had depth, and it frankly ruined so many other shows for me, made them feel dumb, shallow and simplistic that I couldn't even watch them for long. I also wished politics could be like this show. Then the last four years happened...
It’s in the show a lot. They are Democrats in this show. Libertarian left, so they fly the “don’t tread on me” flag a lot. Rob Lowe’s character has the Naval version (First Navy Jack) in his office as well. They are pro-individual freedoms (marijuana, abortion, religion, safety, etc). Basically believe everything should be legal unless it directly impacts/hurts others.
I agree that the first part of the answer was essentially a politically suicidal soundbite. The second half of the answer was a decent explanation for his vote that I think that many people could accept as reasonable, even if they might not necessarily agree with.
The fact that that's true says more about the people voting for what they want to hear than the politician having the balls to do what he thinks is right and the integrity to stand by it.
Yes, and isn't that a pity? In the end we get the government we deserve. We who refuse to flinch from the truth understand democracy requires constant care and pruning to stay healthy and vibrant, otherwise we get tosspots like Trump
As a lifelong Republican although I disagreed with many of the policies on this show I am not ashamed to say that this was one of best shows ever I still watch the entire series from time to time. No in your face she crap. Just fantastic writing and grat characters.
"if fidelity to freedom and democracy is the code of our civic religion then surely the code of our humanity is faithful service to that unwritten commandment that says we shall give our children better than we ourselves shall receive." I've never really understood this line. I love Sorkin's writing but after being puzzled and re-reading it again and again all I can think of is a poorly worded SAT analogy. I mean I understand the last part about giving our children better, it's the first part i have issues with.
RegularGiraffe I think it boils down to "My political agenda is freedom and democracy but politics should always be subordinate to the needs of our children."
I understand it as there are some fundaments to a human society that we always should adhere by... Now, the civic part of it is principles such as freedom and democracy. But beyond that is our human principle that we want a better life for our children. He says that he let go of presenting the business intersts of his constituents when he was in Congress, because he chose the human aspect over the civic one.
RegularGiraffe The thought behind the words is our faithfulness (fidelity) as a nation to freedom and democracy is the 'code of our civic religion.' The US was founded on life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (Declaration of Independence) and to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity (Constitution). Freedom and democracy are the fruits of that labor that the founding fathers worked hard to produce. Maybe replacing 'fidelity' with 'faithfulness' would help. I think Sorkin used both words so as to not repeat himself. Either way, it's a beautiful line.
+RegularGiraffe freedom and democracy is the code of our civic religion................this country was first founded by pilgrims leaving england for the right to practice thier own religion and that is what our freedom and democracy was founded on, everyone having a voice and being able to decide thier own religion
+RegularGiraffe I think part of the problem is your dealing with speech writing. Even though it's fictional it's still a speech and that can involve a little flare. It's meant to move even at the sacrifice of being perfectly clear. But basically he (Bartlet / Sorkin) is saying that politics have to take a back seat to caring for our kids. Further he's saying that there is a code of conduct for politicians but it's superseded by our moral code.
It would be truly refreshing to hear such candor from a candidate…any candidate. I’m afraid it is highly unlikely - bordering on well nigh impossible - that we might ever hear such expression of honesty. I would vote for that person, even if it hurt me personally, because the choice of the greater good would suffice. Alas, that will probably NEVER happen. Still, it was refreshing to hear it here from the fictional president.
@MikeJames6 Elected twice as mayor, the second time around with almost 80 percent of the vote after coming out as gay. Remember Jed Bartlet was an underdog too.
@MikeJames6 It speaks to his message and his job as mayor. If people who vote for homophobes like Pence and Trump for governor and President elect a gay man for their mayor, then he's doing something right. What don't you like about his policies?
It's the little things that can kick you out of a scene. I love this one, but the governor/congressman whose family helped found the state mispronounces its state capital.
A little late on reply here but you know what there must be people out there who talk like this and think like this and would be worthy of your vote. God knows we aren't seeing them much now.
A real Jed Bartlett would be stuck in the Economics Department of a conservative university (like Univ. of Chicago), and if he tried running for County Commissioner would be shot down as an entitled racist because his family supported independence and signed the Declaration because he wanted to protect slavery in the South. Perhaps entitled might be accurate; most US aristocracies disappear in about four generations or less, like with Henry Adams vs. John Adams.
Ah, the great irony of a capitalist country run on corporations (which are basically socialist entities for the rich) moaning about anything the government organises being socialism.
Ok, so this guy says that this vote happened when Jed was a Member of Congress, and then he says he voted for him twice for Governor, which means he voted for Jed at least twice and maybe as many as 4 times AFTER this vote hurt his business so badly. So he obviously doesn't care that much about this issue.
TheGr8stManEvr it could be that the farmer is asking more out of curiosity. He finally has the chance to ask Bartlet directly why he voted the way he did and in the same process let Jed know how this effected him personally.
TheGr8stManEvr maybe whoever Jed was running against was considered to be worse. They guy was probably a solid democrat who could change his mind between different democrats but would never vote for a republican even if the democrat screwed him over on an important issue.
I remember it ended with him saying "If I have to make a choice between protecting business owners or protecting children from going to bed hungry... I'm going to choose the children, every time".
Its silly, but i love the shot at the end of the veteran turning around and going phew finally i can eat my jello. Lol! It was just a normal real world thing to see. Sonething you dont often get in tv shows. Guy wanted to listen, but also...free food. 😅
I wonder what would of happened if Martin Sheen ran for president after this show aired? Knowing how hard it is for some people to separate fiction and reality he might of won.
It's an interesting question - Martin Sheen is an amazing actor, but he needs an amazing writer behind him. This team's gestalt is Aaron Sorkin. As messed up as Mr. Sorkin's career and personal life have been, he's the idealist. But he doesn't have the gravitas of Mr Sheen. I'm also pretty sure Mr. Sheen would far rather act than lead (at last at that level). But I'm not writing the scenario off - after all, Ronald Reagan's credentials for becoming the US President was actor-to-governor-to-President. And of course Trump was game-show-host-to-President. It's a really interesting question.
in today's world Bartlett could never say that. the fidelity speech would be used as evidence of condescension. The 'I put the hammer to farmers' line would be played over and over again in tv ads as evidence of a bias against rural and small town people...
The conventional story line is that Bartlet spent three terms in Congress before serving two terms as NH's governor. The guy says he voted for Bartlet in all of three Congressional runs and both gubernatorial runs, despite Bartlet voting against the "New England Dairy Farming Compact" in one of those earlier Congressional terms. Why is he making a stink about it now?
He voted for him, but took exception on this issue. Now he was posed to ask the question. He may very well have agreed with him on a variety of other issues and concerns.
Yea and this is the exact opposite of how it should work. The dairy farmer has to lose money to give milk to the underprivileged in areas of low SES while its the same losing programs implemented by the people forcing him to lose money who made the kids poor to begin with. An infinite amount of money thrown at education and still 1/5 kids can’t pass the basic reading or math competency and they will keep taking from the farmer until he can’t afford his farm and he will be forced to sell to either black rock or the Chinese. Never bay talk about self responsibility of the people who can’t afford the milk while 30-70% being raised by single mother at best if not their grandmother and government provided check that’s also cutting into the farmers profit. The poor farmer could do the same thing year in and out and eventually do to no fault of his own he will be out of business but yet the politician stands in front of him saying it was a good idea anyway
@@shererid The problem with writing smart characters is that they often have to know more about a topic than the writer. Sorkin isn't an economist or a farmer, but he is a dramatist and gifted in crafting dialogue. People generally write what they know. So his work usually involves a lot of complications playing out in a overly idealised fashion, often being resolved with a rousing speech.
"I told him to tell the truth, if for no other reason than that it's the easiest thing to remember."
Bitemis nice
The moment Josh knew. He was the real deal.
Gosh, I miss this show.
I miss it too, but the conclusion of the Bartlet era was a natural end.
Soon as Bartlett said yeah I screwed ya on that one! Josh knew he was the one.
@@michaelthrasher3760 Especially when he's used to working for Hoynes who would've never been that honest there.
The dairy farmer should have stood up and said "I get all that Governor, but those one-in-five children who are in poverty, their moms do not spend one penny of their food stamps on milk."
@@paulcolburn3855 you don't know that. Eff off.
That's the kind of idealistic brilliance that makes this show so heartbreaking to watch in hindsight. Reality just _can't_ be this good. Bartlett is put on the spot and just comes out with blunt honesty to explain his decisions rather than mealy-mouthed political doubletalk, and ends with what is one of the bluntest and most idealistic sentiments ever, something a real politician in our corrupt world would NEVER say: "If you can't put your human conscience above your wallet, I don't _want_ your vote," with the unspoken implication "I'll win and make this world better with the votes of people who _can"._ Fantastic.
I’ve seen Biden come close to this idea several times, in his talk of “What is worth losing an election over? You need to know what steps you absolutely will not take just to win.” - In this and essentially all other ways he’s more like Bartlett than Trump is.
@@connerclark3678 Wow! What an incredibly high bar you're setting there. Who the hell ISN'T more like Bartlett than Trump?
@@connerclark3678 im no Biden fan. But when he said that idiots called him senile when its the most straightforward and honest answer one can give.
The sad truth is that people are too eager to believe lies. In an election, if your opponent lies and you don't, they beat you.
@@shuttlecrossing1433 Fortunately that didn't happen in the 2020 election, as Trump lied his ass off like he always does and lost anyway. Unfortunately, he's now lying his ass off about losing, and his idiot supporters are either gullible enough to believe him despite his COMPLETE lack of a single scerrick of evidence, or are just willing to play along with his lies because they won't accept democracy if they aren't winning it.
To me, this scene stands out as the pivotal moment in the whole West Wing series. When Bartlett revealed his true character and personality and everyone takes note. The launchpad moment...
D Weir
Leo already knew the type of guy bartlet was, thats why he invited josh to that meeting so that he could see it for himself & lure him away from hoynes.
Can you remember the last time that a president was GENUINE in what he said in public?
The last time a president admitted that SOME people got the shaft and it wasn't some soundbite?
@@mjsteele42 If you were to extend that question to politicians generally the answer would be the same I suspect.
That was the whole point of the scene. His campaign was imploding, and Leo had to do something drastic, so after that scene was when he fired everyone but Toby, and Josh was moved enough to get onboard, and they began to pick up steam.
@@mjsteele42 the last time a President admitted that SOME people got the shaft and it *wasn't* the other person's fault? Never.
0:30 Bartlett loses the room but, in his candor, wins over the only person he needed to convert.
I'm also not sure he loses the room
Making sure poor people can buy milk for their children is something everyone can understand.
@@christopherernst1616 Every moron who hasn't a clue. Maybe you should ignore the silly background music and pay attention to facts you gullible simp.
he never had the room... people are there for the chicken.
@@hkstallion don’t give away the game
"You don't work for the guy who's _gonna_ win; you work for the guy who SHOULD win!"
- Toby.
Will did the former, and lost.
Josh did the latter. And won.
Twice.
Yeah.
fuck spoilers
shit
I'm in the middle of season 6
@@jonahnichols2158 keep watching anyway -- it's not Sorkin, but it's still worth watching.
@@mattciavarella7119 Yeah now I'm in the middle of season 7 and it's still really damn good.
Which is why this is fantasy
Jed Bartlett, the best president the USA never had.
Ironic
I came very close to writing in “Josiah Bartlet” for president in 2016.
I believe that honor falls to Dr. Ron Paul
@@christopherweber9464 Sure, Jan.
@@christopherweber9464 There aren't many who are more intellectually deficient, inherently dishonest, or more focused on self-promotion and willful guile than he, but you sure scraped the bottom of the barrel to find that one...
Sad we have to dream up the type of politicians we should expect.
The character of Jed Bartlet is modeled after JFK with a bit of Bill Clinton.
Ahmed Ashraf Someone vastly more intellegent than I said he was an amalgam of Jefferson, Lincoln, both Roosevelts, JFK, LBJ, Clinton, and a pinch of Nixon ...
you are the one that votes for idiot
The idea of JFK.
The sad reality is that Fox News would crucify him for this.
It's in this moment that Bartlett won the Presidency because this was the moment that Josh joined the campaign.
The President is a good man. He doesn’t hold grudges. That’s what he pays Josh for.
It's in this moment that Bartlett won the debate because this was the moment that Josh's tie joined the campaign.
I like to think that the farmer ended up voting for Bartlett again.
If nothing else, that guy thought long and hard about his vote. He got the most straightforward, non-BS answer you could get from a candidate. I only wish politicians today would have the courage to be so forthright.
Bartlett removed price supports that were intended to help poor people, and his big policy goal throughout his administration was a free trade deal. That farmer voted for Trump. And he did it because of the arrogance of neoliberal shitheads like Barlett.
@@Puragus Lol what
@@stephenstyffe4670 mayor pete reminds me of this guy.
@@catherineboeckmann853 pete wants to be like bartlet but pete isnt an honest actor. Bartlet lived in a world without billionaires buying politicians. Pete does and he is bought out. The only candidate that is really honest like this is bernie.
Still get chills from this scene. Sorkin is in a league of his own as a writer and the same goes for Martin Sheen as an actor.
One of the best scenes in the entire series... because not only is Josh sold on how awesome Bartlett is, so is the viewing audience. A shame we don't have politicians that amazing in real life.
it's the one scene I always remember
I totally agree - in fact after all these years this is the scene I remember first and foremost
Day after Trump / Biden debate, RUclips algorithm “here, have some random Bartlet”. I’m crying in Australian accent (which is pretty close to swearing to be fair 🤣)
Love You Aussies, in some ways your national experiences mirror America's far more than Britain's.
Your forebears endured a perilous voyage to conquer a wild and savage land, full of strange and often dangerous flora and fauna, you had a 'wild west' period, with a gold rush and fabled outlaws, like your Ned Kelly to our Jesse James, etc.
Only you didn't try to exterminate the indigenous peoples of the new land =[
@@ernesthill2681 Unfortunately, we did. Managed it in Tasmania: total genocide. A massive stain on our history.
You weirdos being obsessed with our elections is really, really cringey.
@@Laneous14 Naah, you just don't get it! Where you go, the rest of the world pays the price - we should all get a vote in your elections (I'm in NZ) to make sure Trump never returns - the rest of us know what it means, and are gob-smacked that half your population can't see it.
What is so refreshing about this scene isn't so much the liberal values expressed by Bartlett (though they are expressed elegantly), it's the honesty. It's the idea that the choices our officials make have consequences, and that a responsible leader can justify those choices with candor and without obfuscation or blame. Sadly, it's also what makes this show pure fantasy.
Agree totally! The progressive left believes that all their leaders are like Bartlett honesty intelligent engaged on the issues, and agonizing over their choices. The truth is they are lazy incompetent, corrupt and uninvolved in their decisions. They are simply tools of corporate America. Policy is written by the corporate masters, and the politicians are just the shills selling it to the people.
There are really multiple layers to this scene. The main focus is on Bartlett winning Josh over with his candor and integrity, but it's also important to note that Bartlett was following advice he received from Toby. The answer was Bartlett's, for sure, but it's unlikely he would have given such an honest answer if Toby hadn't advised him that it was wise to do so.
Josh wasn't just won over by Bartlett in this scene. He was won over by Toby as well, even though they weren't aware of each other yet. Leaders can be made or destroyed by the people they choose to trust. Bartlett chose to trust Leo. Leo chose to trust Toby and Josh. Toby and Josh chose to trust CJ and Sam.
Remove any of those people, and the Bartlett the country saw might not have been the Bartlett we know.
@SpydeyDan Bartlet wasn't a Bob Richey; somebody who was controlled by his handlers. Toby offered his opinion; Bartlet considered it, and decided to go that way. Remember, in the same episode I think, all the pushback he gave about saying "my opponent" instead of "Hoynes." Jed was in control of his own campaign.
@@blackhawkswincup2010 often, yes, but the fact that he asked Toby for input on whether he should "piss off the dairy farmers" indicates that he was on the fence. If no one had advised him to Let Bartlet be Bartlet, Uncle Fluffy probably would've taken over, and Josh would've left unimpressed.
Many times throughout the show, Toby serves the role of keeping Bartlet honest with the voters and with himself, and the whole point of the show as a whole is that no one, not even the President, does it all on their own.
Wonderful analysis.
I love the following scene when Leo fires everyone but Toby. AND the guys who got canned ended up working for Hoynes.
Did they actually end up working for Hoynes? Like the same actors were used in Hoynes' campaign?
@@regibson23
I'm pretty sure I saw them in the Hoynes entourage - but that's all you got to know that they were in his campaign. Which explained why Hoynes did not win and Bartlett did.
@@julieenslow5915 the actor who played Cal Mathis (Andy Umberger) DID show up in Hoynes' entourage, but that time he was called Steve
@@awakeningcry
Thank you for the information. I did not catch the name change, which of course means that I did not realize it was supposed to be a different person.
This moment has been running through my head all day. This show has inspired my civil service immeasurably.
Former DOD employee here: I remember discussing TWW episodes with co-workers the day after they aired. We felt the same way then.
@@elizabethturner2421 wow, that must have been great to see a TV drama closely related to your work.
One of things I loved seeing in this show are the moments when each of the main characters had their "aha" moments. The moment when they realized that they'd be willing to follow this president to hell and back if he asked them to.
"I serve at the pleasure of the president"
Not to Hell and back. He would ask them to Jump of a Cliff.
The moment Josh knew he had to tell Sam he found the leader who should be the president of the United States! Almost bone chilling.
It’s like Bruce Wayne seeing the bat fly into his study and getting the idea.
Just a note: It’s “Bartlet” only one “t” at the end. Watching each episode is like being at an amazing concert, the dialogue flows like liquid gold over my weary ears; each move, every prop is exquisitely right. EDIT: I see that lots of comments correctly spelled the character name. The first few I read hadn’t.
"You should vote for someone else." I love that line because it for once, shows that Bartlet is addressing the fact that the voters are the ones who make the choice in the end.
Most of the people I come across on the internet, they go "Oh specifically this thing ruined this person's career." "Oh specifically that thing is what ruined that person's career." , as if the people they're talking about are dog-owners and everyone else is a free-will-less dog that the owners control.
They never address the simple matter that people in matters of career, gain or loose, due to those who have authority choosing to give them what they want. Yes they talk, they research, they think, they work, have expectations...but in the end you cannot control what other people choose to believe, value and do, and those choices are what make or break your career.
Everyone whose face is in front of a camera likes to imagine that they're a god with absolute power over their audience....but none of us are.
We must learn to differentiate between what we as individuals do have control over, and what we as individuals do not have control over.
And one thing that we don't have control over, are other people's choices.
What's next.
Tomorrow!
When Josh knew he was "the Real Thing" ❤
Being Canadian I feel a strong connection to the moment.
oh shut up..
@@MassEffectFan113 Why?
This is probably my favorite Bartlett moment.
Of course it was. Bartlett was written as a masturbatory fantasy for non-insane liberals by one of the glibbest-writing coke fiends in the business, and premiered near the middle of Bill Clinton's last term, when his sexual antics were accepted as real even by his most devoted fans.
Actually, @David Wiehe, I had been a staunch conservative Republican all my life when TWW was on and I adored this show. Try looking beyond ideology and seeing people’s character once in awhile - you might just find a breath of fresh air instead of a windbag.
Welp, guess it's time to rewatch this. Again.
I wish politicians spoke like this more. It indicates they respect the intelligence of their voter constituents. Instead of evading, sugar coating and beating around the bush.
only on a tv show would a politician be so abrupt....and honest.
Welcome to 2016...although the honest part isn't completely there
It is almost demoralizing to watch these clips. This show was so well-written, it showed motivated, intelligent, driven, principled, people working for our government and our country! And since the invention of trump licking politics this is not! True. Most people in our government for the last 18 years have been anything but those things I mentioned.
“Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.” - Harry Truman
Man, that is good. I would vote for that.
Would somebody please post the bit where Josh tells Sam this is the real thing, where Sam tells the oil tanker folks to make better tankers? Thanks
+Sue Stroud I think he tells them to buy better tankers
ruclips.net/video/2PKocNSl9Xo/видео.html
I mean Josh doesn't exactly TELL Sam that -->:D
This show was great at explaining to my family and I what farming was all about. Forgotten suppliers to the future. To live on an ever thinning razor of margin. To Sacrifice for the demands of your voters while mortgaging our future.
Bravo Aaron Sorkin
That knowing look from Leo to Josh is just awesome.
It’s the most important scene in the series because it explains how this thing came together.
One of my favorite scenes ever
Can you imagine ANY politician speaking like this on national TV?
NO!
The moral of this speech is that you can't please everyone at once, as a leader you have to decide who deserves your help more every day, sometimes it's you, sometimes it's someone else, it's not his job to play favorites, he has to think of the nation as a whole, if you want someone who will serve only a select few people's interests then go ahead and vote for them but don't be surprised when things don't go well in the long run.
This is maybe my favorite scene in the whole show.
That moment Bartlet lost one voter and gained two disciples (Josh and Sam). That is, after Josh was able to remember what law firm Sam works for.
If only real life politicians were as earnest and thoughtful as Jed
Can you imagine a politician admitting in public policy that there are winners and losers from the choices they make.
The bigger picture here is that every American should afford the basics, even if it cuts into the profits of the few. People who are poor and unemployed are not less-than.
Special scene. One of the most memorable in the show for me.
There’s hope in his statements here. Hope that he can persuade that dairy farmer to grasp that the enlightened self interest of finding ways for the poor to afford milk is indeed in that farmer’s self interest. If politics is nothing at all aside from selfishness in this moment, then societal collapse is indeed a self-fulfilling prophecy
That guy might be a "businessman" but he's clearly forgotten that he's a human first. When we lose our humanity, we lose everything.
Dairy farmers in the U.S. also receive all sorts of federal subsidies to avoid pouring the milk in the river instead of letting it go to market for less than it cost them to produce. There are huge agricultural subsidies. They're not entirely just independent business people working hard. Governments are always considering needs, markets etc.
One of the many great scenes from the series
Bartlett voted against The New England Dairy Farming Compact... but that man voted against eyebrows.
Ahhh. I’m nostalgic for that beautifully naive make believe world, where worst we had to fear was a pro-choice republican Alan Alda 😂
Yes, Sorkin writes republican to the left of most actual democrats. As if the country is divided over marginal tax rates or school vouchers.
This is why Jon Stewart, on the cover of his book, said that The West Wing was "total f***ing bull****." And he was right. Who could expect any politician today, from any party, to show this kind of integrity? For me, TWW was appointment television. Every Wednesday night at 9 I was there. And Jon Stewart can keep his cynicism.
When we can't realize what we want, we write fiction.
TWW was basically high fantasy. It's nice to watch, and it makes you think about all kinds of issues, but it's as realisitic LOTR
@@imcallingjapan2178 I get your point, but at the same time, each individual is capable of better. The thing is, anybody can realistically, at any time, resolve to show integrity and do what is right. Amazing things happen in that moment. We must be the change we wish to see in the world. We can't just give in to permanent cynicism and disillusionment.
@@blackhawkswincup2010 TWW is one of my two favourite ever shows. Every episode had intelligence, every character had depth, and it frankly ruined so many other shows for me, made them feel dumb, shallow and simplistic that I couldn't even watch them for long. I also wished politics could be like this show. Then the last four years happened...
@@imcallingjapan2178 And it isn't gonna get any better from here on out, either...
I just realized there's a "Don't tread on me" flag hanging behind Jed.
It’s in the show a lot. They are Democrats in this show. Libertarian left, so they fly the “don’t tread on me” flag a lot. Rob Lowe’s character has the Naval version (First Navy Jack) in his office as well. They are pro-individual freedoms (marijuana, abortion, religion, safety, etc). Basically believe everything should be legal unless it directly impacts/hurts others.
In the real world of politics, this statement alone would cause him to lose in a landslide.
I agree that the first part of the answer was essentially a politically suicidal soundbite. The second half of the answer was a decent explanation for his vote that I think that many people could accept as reasonable, even if they might not necessarily agree with.
The fact that that's true says more about the people voting for what they want to hear than the politician having the balls to do what he thinks is right and the integrity to stand by it.
"Jed Bartlett gouges Dairy farmer in order for child super predators to be more nourished to commit violent crimes!"
Fox News.
thirteen3 because only predators drink milk right??? 🤦♀️
Yes, and isn't that a pity?
In the end we get the government we deserve. We who refuse to flinch from the truth understand democracy requires constant care and pruning to stay healthy and vibrant, otherwise we get tosspots like Trump
As a lifelong Republican although I disagreed with many of the policies on this show I am not ashamed to say that this was one of best shows ever I still watch the entire series from time to time. No in your face she crap. Just fantastic writing and grat characters.
One of my favorite scenes from the entire series
"if fidelity to freedom and democracy is the code of our civic religion then surely the code of our humanity is faithful service to that unwritten commandment that says we shall give our children better than we ourselves shall receive."
I've never really understood this line. I love Sorkin's writing but after being puzzled and re-reading it again and again all I can think of is a poorly worded SAT analogy. I mean I understand the last part about giving our children better, it's the first part i have issues with.
RegularGiraffe I think it boils down to "My political agenda is freedom and democracy but politics should always be subordinate to the needs of our children."
I understand it as there are some fundaments to a human society that we always should adhere by... Now, the civic part of it is principles such as freedom and democracy. But beyond that is our human principle that we want a better life for our children. He says that he let go of presenting the business intersts of his constituents when he was in Congress, because he chose the human aspect over the civic one.
RegularGiraffe The thought behind the words is our faithfulness (fidelity) as a nation to freedom and democracy is the 'code of our civic religion.' The US was founded on life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (Declaration of Independence) and to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity (Constitution). Freedom and democracy are the fruits of that labor that the founding fathers worked hard to produce. Maybe replacing 'fidelity' with 'faithfulness' would help. I think Sorkin used both words so as to not repeat himself. Either way, it's a beautiful line.
+RegularGiraffe freedom and democracy is the code of our civic religion................this country was first founded by pilgrims leaving england for the right to practice thier own religion and that is what our freedom and democracy was founded on, everyone having a voice and being able to decide thier own religion
+RegularGiraffe I think part of the problem is your dealing with speech writing. Even though it's fictional it's still a speech and that can involve a little flare. It's meant to move even at the sacrifice of being perfectly clear. But basically he (Bartlet / Sorkin) is saying that politics have to take a back seat to caring for our kids. Further he's saying that there is a code of conduct for politicians but it's superseded by our moral code.
You can see Josh falling in love here.
2024 anyone? Why does he seem like a better choice?
Dear Jed, please run for President.
I want an explanation why that farmer has no eyebrows.
if you didn't notice, this same thing happens with Santos
It would be truly refreshing to hear such candor from a candidate…any candidate. I’m afraid it is highly unlikely - bordering on well nigh impossible - that we might ever hear such expression of honesty. I would vote for that person, even if it hurt me personally, because the choice of the greater good would suffice.
Alas, that will probably NEVER happen.
Still, it was refreshing to hear it here from the fictional president.
pan's out to the vet., great touch
I wish Bartlett could be a real person who would run for President.
I think there are many but nobody would really vote of them. I mean not literally nobody but ya know
Binge watch west wing during Trump Presidency, we can dream can't we TEARSSSSSSS.
MikeJames6 Sanders would have won.
Let's not pretend we haven't had four garbage presidents in a row....
@MikeJames6 *cough* Pete Buttigieg *cough*
@MikeJames6 Elected twice as mayor, the second time around with almost 80 percent of the vote after coming out as gay. Remember Jed Bartlet was an underdog too.
@MikeJames6 It speaks to his message and his job as mayor. If people who vote for homophobes like Pence and Trump for governor and President elect a gay man for their mayor, then he's doing something right. What don't you like about his policies?
This is the type of politician I wanna work for
This is the kind of candidate I want to vote for.
no matter your political party, this has to resonate with you
Josh is convinced
I do enjoy the vet digging into his Jell-O afterward.
It's the little things that can kick you out of a scene. I love this one, but the governor/congressman whose family helped found the state mispronounces its state capital.
A little late on reply here but you know what there must be people out there who talk like this and think like this and would be worthy of your vote. God knows we aren't seeing them much now.
A real Jed Bartlett would be stuck in the Economics Department of a conservative university (like Univ. of Chicago), and if he tried running for County Commissioner would be shot down as an entitled racist because his family supported independence and signed the Declaration because he wanted to protect slavery in the South. Perhaps entitled might be accurate; most US aristocracies disappear in about four generations or less, like with Henry Adams vs. John Adams.
It's a real shame that this answer would destroy any politician's real life campaign in America under a flood of 'Socialism' headlines.
Ah, the great irony of a capitalist country run on corporations (which are basically socialist entities for the rich) moaning about anything the government organises being socialism.
That is not Socialism, it is welfare for the rich, too. Means testing or a milk tax rebate could do the same thing.
A politician who ADMITS he screwed you, even if he thinks he had a good reason for it. I’d vote for him.
Dude stepped up!!
I cry every time; imagine the Truth that comes with a solution
Ok, so this guy says that this vote happened when Jed was a Member of Congress, and then he says he voted for him twice for Governor, which means he voted for Jed at least twice and maybe as many as 4 times AFTER this vote hurt his business so badly. So he obviously doesn't care that much about this issue.
TheGr8stManEvr it could be that the farmer is asking more out of curiosity. He finally has the chance to ask Bartlet directly why he voted the way he did and in the same process let Jed know how this effected him personally.
TheGr8stManEvr maybe whoever Jed was running against was considered to be worse. They guy was probably a solid democrat who could change his mind between different democrats but would never vote for a republican even if the democrat screwed him over on an important issue.
Josh’s face says it all
Great scene. He’s not really from NH tho. Concord is pronounced more like “congkerd”.
Anyone have a Mandela Effect for the end of this speach. I distinctly remember this speach ending differently.
Yes, Laura Loomer and her boyfriend ran in waving swastikas and pissed in the punch
I remember it ended with him saying "If I have to make a choice between protecting business owners or protecting children from going to bed hungry... I'm going to choose the children, every time".
I guess it was just me. Goes to show that our memories are an unreliable witness.
I'd still vote for the dude eating jello.
He said Concord wrong!
Its silly, but i love the shot at the end of the veteran turning around and going phew finally i can eat my jello. Lol! It was just a normal real world thing to see. Sonething you dont often get in tv shows. Guy wanted to listen, but also...free food. 😅
I wonder what would of happened if Martin Sheen ran for president after this show aired? Knowing how hard it is for some people to separate fiction and reality he might of won.
Not "would of"... Would _have_ ...
It's an interesting question - Martin Sheen is an amazing actor, but he needs an amazing writer behind him. This team's gestalt is Aaron Sorkin. As messed up as Mr. Sorkin's career and personal life have been, he's the idealist.
But he doesn't have the gravitas of Mr Sheen.
I'm also pretty sure Mr. Sheen would far rather act than lead (at last at that level).
But I'm not writing the scenario off - after all, Ronald Reagan's credentials for becoming the US President was actor-to-governor-to-President. And of course Trump was game-show-host-to-President.
It's a really interesting question.
This makes my heart ache for politicians with just a fraction of the integrity and honesty of this fictional character
I wonder if that guy voted for Jed or not.
I would vote for him today if he were on the ballet. hmmmm. Write in candidate?
Right there with you.
@@kathleenpovey3761
By "he" you mean Martin Sheen? Or Jed Bartlett?
@@julieenslow5915 I'd take either one.
@@Nekulturny
Yes
I HATE HATE HATE that there is not ONE politician in America half this decent and honest.
There are plenty. But they don't generate ratings for the media...
There is, but they are out of office.
oh 4 f's sakes, Sorkin should run for president.
in today's world Bartlett could never say that. the fidelity speech would be used as evidence of condescension. The 'I put the hammer to farmers' line would be played over and over again in tv ads as evidence of a bias against rural and small town people...
Let Bartlet be Bartlet
The conventional story line is that Bartlet spent three terms in Congress before serving two terms as NH's governor. The guy says he voted for Bartlet in all of three Congressional runs and both gubernatorial runs, despite Bartlet voting against the "New England Dairy Farming Compact" in one of those earlier Congressional terms. Why is he making a stink about it now?
He voted for him, but took exception on this issue. Now he was posed to ask the question. He may very well have agreed with him on a variety of other issues and concerns.
That's the type of answer people want..... not the fucking double speak. Responsibility for your actions and acknowledgement of your deeds.
So toby was josh's source of inspiration..
I LOOOVE JOSH.....
I watch this to feel better about government, like house wives watch Law and Order to be reminded there could be good cops. Pure fan fiction.
This scene inspired my first novel.
I miss when this was what politicking was about.
… what’s next ?
Yea and this is the exact opposite of how it should work. The dairy farmer has to lose money to give milk to the underprivileged in areas of low SES while its the same losing programs implemented by the people forcing him to lose money who made the kids poor to begin with. An infinite amount of money thrown at education and still 1/5 kids can’t pass the basic reading or math competency and they will keep taking from the farmer until he can’t afford his farm and he will be forced to sell to either black rock or the Chinese. Never bay talk about self responsibility of the people who can’t afford the milk while 30-70% being raised by single mother at best if not their grandmother and government provided check that’s also cutting into the farmers profit. The poor farmer could do the same thing year in and out and eventually do to no fault of his own he will be out of business but yet the politician stands in front of him saying it was a good idea anyway
Leadership!
Best fantasy show in history!
Huh
"Fantasy show" might be more accurate, but I totally get your point.
@@davidshulimson9491 You're right. No sci here, just fi. Fantasy indeed...
@@shererid The problem with writing smart characters is that they often have to know more about a topic than the writer.
Sorkin isn't an economist or a farmer, but he is a dramatist and gifted in crafting dialogue. People generally write what they know. So his work usually involves a lot of complications playing out in a overly idealised fashion, often being resolved with a rousing speech.
only one problem. he pronounced Concord wrong
As a New Hampshirite, I'd agree with you - but he says it so convincingly, maybe I'm wrong...