Thanks so much for sharing. Using the brake disc was inspired. I have turned so many back in the day, but it's been so long I had forgotten the were great cast iron sources. Great series. Thank you.
Awesome series, thanks for taking the time to film and share. I popped over after Ade gave you a shout and I'm glad I did, very impressed. I want to get into scraping and I learn best by watching, so this series is perfect for me. I rather like your honesty when it comes to mistakes, we all make them and they help to instill the lessons that they bring with them, so again, thanks for being brave enough to leave them in. I will and forever never understand the elitist attitude I see machinists and engineers harbour toward perticular measurement systems, apart from the argument concerning standardising screws perhaps but even then, sometimes, just sometimes, an unusual diameter and pitch are called for. As for for everything else, particularly when building from scratch, whatever works or looks right in my humble opinion, it's all reletive anyway. FYI, the set screws with the un-threaded portion on the ends featured in your last vid are called "dog-head" screws here in the UK. Anyhoo, I'm gonna finish watching this series and then it's off to start from the beginning to see your other projects. Keep up the awesome work buddy, subbing for more.......
Your mixing units is what we, here in the UK will probably always have with us. I fab in mm, but drive in miles. I often measure in inches, as handy 'big' units. Fuel is in litres, but I still call it in mpg. Yeah. Not ideal.
NZ only went metric in the 1970's so I learned metric at school, but my Dad talking in imperial. Then I started working on aircraft, which are mostly imperial. I'm also quite happy to switch back and forth.
In Britain we used to have imperial with metric as an option, I often ask myself if the inflation (which took off after Harold Wilson ditched £ s d) & has ruined so many lives would have been possible in a system where shifting the decimal point wasn't an option!
I believe it is required by law that one (at least momentarily) forgets that the new tool can do the old job in a new way. Machine tools, updated software, cameras, whatever - it's universal.
Thanks. I try to find a balance, as shifting the camera from LH to RH for every scraping pass gets annoying very quickly. In the next episode, I'll probably pick a couple of typical components and show in more detail the scraping which went into them, and just summarise the others. There are a surprising number of surfaces to scrape in these tapered gibs.
Metric or imperial is usually designated by the lead screw pitch. I live in the USA and frankly, I can't wait for the switch to metric. As it is, everything I buy is metric but all of the hardware I can buy at my local Big Box Store is imperial. What's with that? From what I understand is the only thing holding us back is the cost of replacing the several million signs in the country, and oh yeah, all of the thermostats and such. I would miss Ferenheit though. Never could wrap my mind around Celsius. Oh yeah, also the inch. it just feels like a centimeter is a bit small as an incremental measure. MM = 1/16, meter = yard, centimeter vs inch, not so much. I guess you get used to it, in time.
"I live in the USA and frankly, I can't wait for the switch to metric" Dont hold your breathe. It hs become a culture thing. Although the inch has been defined as 25.4mm for decades, so you are already metric.
One thing that came to my mind lately regarding these mini lathes is the lack of a real spindle nose and the lack of girth in the spindle shaft. When I will buy one of these after I've completed all my previous projects (never) one of the main improvements will be machining the headstock casting to accept bigger bearings and installing a 60-80mm thick spindle shaft on it (depends on what fits) with a short taper spindle nose and 40+mm thru hole.
Not sure if that wouldn't be polishing a turd :). The spindle would seem significantly stiffer than the rest of the machine. A switch to a D1-3 Cmlock nose would be a pretty cool project, but would require a bigger lathe anyway. Thanks for your feedback.
@@RotarySMP a 30mm bar especially with hole in the middle. You can easily deflect it by hand let alone cutting forces. And the stickout with the chuck will always be more than the rule of thumb 3 times the diameter says. I'm considering machining a new spindle for my t&c grinder as well because the 30mm shaft it has does flex too much. Even chatter when dressing the wheel, terrible. The bearings are preloaded and body is heavy cast iron so the only thing left to cause it is the thin shaft.
@@RotarySMP I actually acquired today a Emco Compact 5 CNC, so I don´t think I want to do a project out of a chinese minilathe anymore. I´ll see in a month or so when I get into it if it can cut steel or not...
Thanks. I have also been thinking that I need to check that. Any tilt along the bed axis would have the effect of increasing one gib angle and reducing the other. If you scrape for fit, that would be compensated for. slope front to back would probably make the gibs want to walk out of the slots.
@@RotarySMP From the video it looks like you have plenty. Really curious how the adjustablity is. Thinking about copying this concept for my Emco Compact 5 CNC.
Just for the record......the bottom keeper plate is actually (should actually be) in two parts on the working face. There is a small groove between the face that bolts to the saddle and the face that slides on the bottom of the lathe way. The keeper is first surface ground or milled flat on both faces, the other face is not important but must be flat too. The keeper is prepared and fitted to the bottom of the saddle face, then it is tightened slightly.....two things can happen, first the saddle will be locked solid to the lathe bed or second the saddle will be loose and able to be lifted slightly. If the saddle is tight you need to remove metal ONLY from the face of the keeper that slides on the bed bottom......using a scraper to progressively scrape, tighten and scrape that face. etc etc. This will leave a small height difference between the two faces but it is the fit of the sliding face that you need to make good. When you have removed enough material by scraping to get the saddle to slide and have a blued 25 spot contact you are there. On the second count, if the saddle is slack and the keeper is clear from the bottom face of the bed you will need to either mill a couple of thou from the bolting face part of the keeper if the gap is large to bring it closer, preferably to make it a tight fit, then scrape the sliding face to a fit as before. I've done this a number of times over the years.
I'm sure you have said this many times but you could really benefit from having a surface grinder. I lucked out getting a Boyar Schultz H-618 for $250. I need to do what you're doing to refurbish it. One reason I'm watching all of your videos. I need the inspiration, watching someone with the patience of a saint, endlessly scrapping his way to perfection.
A surface grinder....my kingdom for a surface grinder, that is one machine tool you really need to have if you want to get serious with machine rebuilding......even a Macson manual model is worth it's weight in gold.
I'd love to have one, but an rather limited in space in the basement. There is a an Elliot 1018 locally which I saw advertised yesterday which is tempting.
@@RotarySMP They are rather messy things to have...... you really do need to run them with coolant, and you need to have some space around it or the dust from dressing the stone......regularly........gets into everything, this is where a Shopvac comes into it's own, but on the whole being able to make surfaces that are really parallel after milling is a boon. I wouldn't say it can replace scraping but it more than halves the scraping time if at all in many cases.
In this size, and for a manual lathe, if you dont need thread cutting, you should look at a watch lathe like a Boley or Schaublin 70. TOS of the Czech republic made the very nice MN80. www.lathes.co.uk/tos/index.html Thanks for watching.
Thanks for watching. I covered that in episode 7. Basically the area moment of inertia of the lathe bed is insufficient for a machine tool. Bolting it down converted it from a wet noodle, to dried spaghetti, but even a perfectly rigid stand won't solve the lack of material in the bed.
'Binge watching' the series from the beginning. Personally I don't have the slightest problem with mixing Imperial and metric measurements and anyone who criticises for it should learn to do the same. Being a bit more open minded would have prevented the NASA/Soyuz fiasco years ago so any 'machinist' should be able to at least recognise the difference I was teaching at a trade school in Orlando (Florida) for almost 12 years and got tired of the 'but this is America, we don't do metric' Well, I did some research and USA has been using metric weights and measures since 1864 Act of Congress when France donated Kilogram weights and meter measures. (there still isn't an official inch, except that converted from metric) (it still took almost 30 years before even inch/mile/etc was standardised) US gallons are based on French gallons due to wine being imported, French gallon smaller than UK (3.88 vs 4.54 litres) The only thing I still have problems with are kilometers,
NZ switch to metric in the early 1970's, so my Dad never converted in his head. I am comfortable in both. Probably have a better feel for tolerances in thou, but otherwise it is also not an issue for me. Merry Christmas
Thanks Frank. This is LinuxCNC with the Gmoccapy GUI. I made my own User control module to duplicate the touch screen soft buttons around the edges with physical buttons.
haha, I noticed you previously used both metric and imperial in the same sentence in a previous video! (I think it was talking about two dimensions on the same part!) My suggestion: skip imperial entirely. The entire world has moved on... There are still many people using imperial, but all the leading edge fields, scientific and engineering units, and modern things are in metric. Join us =D
I am a mainly metric thinker, but my Dad gave me some of measuring equipment, and I have a could nicer accurate ones in Imperial. As an aircraft tech, you need Imperial, as most aircraft are still imperial. I can switch it up, and do so for comedic relief at times :)
If you're the sort of person who complains about mixing metric/imperial units, you should probably stay away from any sort of machining/engineering! That's especially valid in the home-shop as you often have to take what you can get for measurement gear! I for one can't afford a brand new collection of clocks and clamps in my preferred system of measurement, just for the sake of avoiding a little mental arithmetic!
Thanks so much for sharing. Using the brake disc was inspired. I have turned so many back in the day, but it's been so long I had forgotten the were great cast iron sources. Great series. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome series, thanks for taking the time to film and share. I popped over after Ade gave you a shout and I'm glad I did, very impressed. I want to get into scraping and I learn best by watching, so this series is perfect for me.
I rather like your honesty when it comes to mistakes, we all make them and they help to instill the lessons that they bring with them, so again, thanks for being brave enough to leave them in.
I will and forever never understand the elitist attitude I see machinists and engineers harbour toward perticular measurement systems, apart from the argument concerning standardising screws perhaps but even then, sometimes, just sometimes, an unusual diameter and pitch are called for.
As for for everything else, particularly when building from scratch, whatever works or looks right in my humble opinion, it's all reletive anyway.
FYI, the set screws with the un-threaded portion on the ends featured in your last vid are called "dog-head" screws here in the UK.
Anyhoo, I'm gonna finish watching this series and then it's off to start from the beginning to see your other projects.
Keep up the awesome work buddy, subbing for more.......
Welcome, and thanks for watching.
personally, watching a pro applying his craft is a pleasure. Scrape away! please
Thanks for the kind feedback.
i think the algorithm will have a field day with your channel.
super interesting and seeing Linux in the wild just sparks joy in my heart.
I hope you are right. That might spark joy into my heart :)
Your mixing units is what we, here in the UK will probably always have with us. I fab in mm, but drive in miles. I often measure in inches, as handy 'big' units. Fuel is in litres, but I still call it in mpg. Yeah. Not ideal.
NZ only went metric in the 1970's so I learned metric at school, but my Dad talking in imperial. Then I started working on aircraft, which are mostly imperial. I'm also quite happy to switch back and forth.
In Britain we used to have imperial with metric as an option, I often ask myself if the inflation (which took off after Harold Wilson ditched £ s d) & has ruined so many lives would have been possible in a system where shifting the decimal point wasn't an option!
Well beyond turd level... now entering TOT level.
Very enjoyable series.
Thanks for sharing,
Cheers
Yeah. A bit excessive considering the basis, but it is a good learning project. Thanks for watching.
I believe it is required by law that one (at least momentarily) forgets that the new tool can do the old job in a new way. Machine tools, updated software, cameras, whatever - it's universal.
Yep, thow it away and buy new. I don't like that. Thanks for watching.
keep the great repair work coming and include all steps as they are important even the scrapping
Thanks. I try to find a balance, as shifting the camera from LH to RH for every scraping pass gets annoying very quickly. In the next episode, I'll probably pick a couple of typical components and show in more detail the scraping which went into them, and just summarise the others. There are a surprising number of surfaces to scrape in these tapered gibs.
Metric or imperial is usually designated by the lead screw pitch. I live in the USA and frankly, I can't wait for the switch to metric. As it is, everything I buy is metric but all of the hardware I can buy at my local Big Box Store is imperial. What's with that? From what I understand is the only thing holding us back is the cost of replacing the several million signs in the country, and oh yeah, all of the thermostats and such. I would miss Ferenheit though. Never could wrap my mind around Celsius. Oh yeah, also the inch. it just feels like a centimeter is a bit small as an incremental measure. MM = 1/16, meter = yard, centimeter vs inch, not so much. I guess you get used to it, in time.
"I live in the USA and frankly, I can't wait for the switch to metric"
Dont hold your breathe. It hs become a culture thing. Although the inch has been defined as 25.4mm for decades, so you are already metric.
@@RotarySMP Yeah, that's how I do most of my mental conversions. 4 inches is 100mm.
One thing that came to my mind lately regarding these mini lathes is the lack of a real spindle nose and the lack of girth in the spindle shaft. When I will buy one of these after I've completed all my previous projects (never) one of the main improvements will be machining the headstock casting to accept bigger bearings and installing a 60-80mm thick spindle shaft on it (depends on what fits) with a short taper spindle nose and 40+mm thru hole.
Not sure if that wouldn't be polishing a turd :). The spindle would seem significantly stiffer than the rest of the machine. A switch to a D1-3 Cmlock nose would be a pretty cool project, but would require a bigger lathe anyway. Thanks for your feedback.
@@RotarySMP a 30mm bar especially with hole in the middle. You can easily deflect it by hand let alone cutting forces. And the stickout with the chuck will always be more than the rule of thumb 3 times the diameter says.
I'm considering machining a new spindle for my t&c grinder as well because the 30mm shaft it has does flex too much. Even chatter when dressing the wheel, terrible. The bearings are preloaded and body is heavy cast iron so the only thing left to cause it is the thin shaft.
@@RotarySMP I actually acquired today a Emco Compact 5 CNC, so I don´t think I want to do a project out of a chinese minilathe anymore. I´ll see in a month or so when I get into it if it can cut steel or not...
Having laid into my similar machine, this video has gone from interesting to invaluable.
I hope you enjoy the rest of the series.
@@RotarySMP I've seen it at least once, and I look forward to making many of the same improvements.
The surfaces where you attach the gib blocks dont have to be co-planar but they must be parallel to the ways. Good work!
Thanks. I have also been thinking that I need to check that. Any tilt along the bed axis would have the effect of increasing one gib angle and reducing the other. If you scrape for fit, that would be compensated for. slope front to back would probably make the gibs want to walk out of the slots.
@@RotarySMP You're right. If you scrape the gibs for fit, the mounting surfaces can be at any angle :)
@@hiiarrr I hope I have enough excess length to scrape them to fit.
@@RotarySMP From the video it looks like you have plenty. Really curious how the adjustablity is. Thinking about copying this concept for my Emco Compact 5 CNC.
Great episode as always. Loving this little series!
thanks for the feedback.
Just for the record......the bottom keeper plate is actually (should actually be) in two parts on the working face.
There is a small groove between the face that bolts to the saddle and the face that slides on the bottom of the lathe way.
The keeper is first surface ground or milled flat on both faces, the other face is not important but must be flat too.
The keeper is prepared and fitted to the bottom of the saddle face, then it is tightened slightly.....two things can happen, first the saddle will be locked solid to the lathe bed or second the saddle will be loose and able to be lifted slightly.
If the saddle is tight you need to remove metal ONLY from the face of the keeper that slides on the bed bottom......using a scraper to progressively scrape, tighten and scrape that face. etc etc.
This will leave a small height difference between the two faces but it is the fit of the sliding face that you need to make good.
When you have removed enough material by scraping to get the saddle to slide and have a blued 25 spot contact you are there.
On the second count, if the saddle is slack and the keeper is clear from the bottom face of the bed you will need to either mill a couple of thou from the bolting face part of the keeper if the gap is large to bring it closer, preferably to make it a tight fit, then scrape the sliding face to a fit as before.
I've done this a number of times over the years.
Thanks, that is a good description of the process.
Another great episode!! I am very away to do something like that, but is always useful to know.
Thanks.
what is the triangle shaped inspection block called
I guess it would be called a prismatic straight edge, or something like that?
@@RotarySMP thank you i saw you using it and it's like that would really come in handy been trying to find one and so far can't
Another great video! You'll probably be the first person on the planet with a tapered-gib mini-lathe!
Thanks, but nope, there have been plenty. One I referenced in the info section.
Thanks! Didn't notice Rick Kruger's link in the info section. Very useful info, since my Pratt & Whitney mill uses tapered gibs.
He literally said in the video he got the idea from someone online that already done it.
I'm sure you have said this many times but you could really benefit from having a surface grinder. I lucked out getting a Boyar Schultz H-618 for $250. I need to do what you're doing to refurbish it. One reason I'm watching all of your videos. I need the inspiration, watching someone with the patience of a saint, endlessly scrapping his way to perfection.
Go for it. Machine recondition is not a big job. It is just a long list of small jobs :)
It is coming along great keep them coming
Thanks. Will do.
very well done!
thank you for your kind feedback.
Great stuff, entertaining but thought provoking🤔keep up the great work, word on the street is TOT is a big fan 😮
Thanks for watching, and the encouraging feedback. TOT is a natural story teller. I really like his work.
Definitely a 1 to 49!
:)
A surface grinder....my kingdom for a surface grinder, that is one machine tool you really need to have if you want to get serious with machine rebuilding......even a Macson manual model is worth it's weight in gold.
I'd love to have one, but an rather limited in space in the basement. There is a an Elliot 1018 locally which I saw advertised yesterday which is tempting.
@@RotarySMP They are rather messy things to have...... you really do need to run them with coolant, and you need to have some space around it or the dust from dressing the stone......regularly........gets into everything, this is where a Shopvac comes into it's own, but on the whole being able to make surfaces that are really parallel after milling is a boon.
I wouldn't say it can replace scraping but it more than halves the scraping time if at all in many cases.
how do you fix the problem on the under side of the bed when there is a difference of 0.007from the midle to the end and 0.005 the other end
What units? In metric anything within 2µm is finished. If it is imperial, then you would scrape out the 2 thou variation.
No wonder my parts made on the mini lathe are all tapered...
Horrible quality!!!
Can anyone suggest a decent small desktop lathe?
In this size, and for a manual lathe, if you dont need thread cutting, you should look at a watch lathe like a Boley or Schaublin 70. TOS of the Czech republic made the very nice MN80.
www.lathes.co.uk/tos/index.html
Thanks for watching.
you ever think of mounting that lathe on a piece of granite? not sure if this question has been asked before
Thanks for watching. I covered that in episode 7. Basically the area moment of inertia of the lathe bed is insufficient for a machine tool. Bolting it down converted it from a wet noodle, to dried spaghetti, but even a perfectly rigid stand won't solve the lack of material in the bed.
Nice machining, definitely go with metric, far better than the weird system called imperial...
Lets be accurate.... weird systemS.... US gallons, Imperial gallons, about eight different units called ounces. :)
:)
Great way to start a flame war!
'Binge watching' the series from the beginning.
Personally I don't have the slightest problem with mixing Imperial and metric measurements and anyone who criticises for it should learn to do the same.
Being a bit more open minded would have prevented the NASA/Soyuz fiasco years ago so any 'machinist' should be able to at least recognise the difference
I was teaching at a trade school in Orlando (Florida) for almost 12 years and got tired of the 'but this is America, we don't do metric'
Well, I did some research and USA has been using metric weights and measures since 1864 Act of Congress when France donated Kilogram weights and meter measures. (there still isn't an official inch, except that converted from metric) (it still took almost 30 years before even inch/mile/etc was standardised) US gallons are based on French gallons due to wine being imported, French gallon smaller than UK (3.88 vs 4.54 litres) The only thing I still have problems with are kilometers,
NZ switch to metric in the early 1970's, so my Dad never converted in his head. I am comfortable in both. Probably have a better feel for tolerances in thou, but otherwise it is also not an issue for me.
Merry Christmas
Awesome work! What controller are you running on your CNC?
Thanks Frank. This is LinuxCNC with the Gmoccapy GUI. I made my own User control module to duplicate the touch screen soft buttons around the edges with physical buttons.
long live to metric
The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose between :)
@@RotarySMP yep is a mess some of the time
Make it 1 in forty-nine, Just make sure you get it Seven
By the time I have scraped everything, one will be 1.093:49.211 and the other less accurate :) Thanks for watching.
haha, I noticed you previously used both metric and imperial in the same sentence in a previous video! (I think it was talking about two dimensions on the same part!) My suggestion: skip imperial entirely. The entire world has moved on... There are still many people using imperial, but all the leading edge fields, scientific and engineering units, and modern things are in metric. Join us =D
I am a mainly metric thinker, but my Dad gave me some of measuring equipment, and I have a could nicer accurate ones in Imperial. As an aircraft tech, you need Imperial, as most aircraft are still imperial. I can switch it up, and do so for comedic relief at times :)
If you're the sort of person who complains about mixing metric/imperial units, you should probably stay away from any sort of machining/engineering! That's especially valid in the home-shop as you often have to take what you can get for measurement gear! I for one can't afford a brand new collection of clocks and clamps in my preferred system of measurement, just for the sake of avoiding a little mental arithmetic!
Thanks for watching, Leon. I'm pretty comfortable in both systems and agree with you entirely.