This is exceedingly true. As someone who had severe OCD and scrupulosity, the idea of "enough good fruits" tormented me for so long. I thought the idea of salvation being a process and something that could be lost would make my OCD worse, but it was the opposite. Since accepting more historical Christian beliefs (and biblical!) My obsessive worry has been replaced with a stronger confidence in Christ
to me its nice to have a Priest absolve me. Its the Priest who is giving me assurance of forgiveness. If he gets it wrong somehow the Priest would be the one culpable at that point to God not me. As far as I am concerned I am forgiven. The only thing I dont get is it in writing.
Me as well. As a Protestant I was really tormented. My husband and I reverted to the Catholic Church this past Easter and the peace I have is amazing. God bless you 🙏
Sooo… you’ve turned to the RCC who by the way teaches that no one can be sure of where they are going when they die, which they refer to as the sin of presumption. You need to realized something: Christ has already freed you from sin, that is from the penalty of sin. If you’ve trusted in Christ as your savior, you’re going to heaven no matter what. Once we realize that we can begin to grow in holiness and live in that reality that we are already fully accepted and forgiven. If you think the Catholic Church will give you assurance of salvation via external means like the sacraments you’re mistaken. It will give you assurance alright, but a false assurance: one based on going through the motions of going to church, partaking in the sacraments, going to confession. It’s good to put your assurance in something outside yourself, but the sacraments are not it. The thing we should put our trust in, is in Christ own words. So many Christians out there don’t believe Christ when he said whoever believes in me HATH (present tense) everlasting life. They think that’s just too easy there must be something more. They will tell you to trust in anything BUT Christ and his promise of eternal life to those who simply believe. If they really truly believed what Christ said they would not be Catholic or Protestant. They would be Christian. And they would understand the Christian life is about maintaining fellowship with God, not about trying to hold on to salvation or prove you’ve got it. And that there’s a fundamental difference between the two. If you happen to come across this reply, I encourage you to check out the Free Grace position, and pastors like Yankee Arnold, Tom Cacuzza, J Vernon McGee, Charles Lawson.
Former evangelical youth pastor here... just came into the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church this year on Pentecost Sunday 🙌 Thanks Trent and team for content like this. Your resources were (and still are) a huge part of my conversion. I witnessed this Protestant version of "scrupulosity" a LOT with parishioners and students. There were plenty of folks who got "re-saved" at camps and retreats. And because baptism is typically viewed as only symbolic, there were even folks being "re-baptized." I started to realize that we were longing for the Sacrament of Reconciliation because, through it, Christ provides an objective way of knowing that you are forgiven and restored to right relationship with Him and the family of God.
@@bullyboy131 Jesus (John 6:48-68), St. Paul (1 Corinthians 11:23-30), the disciple of John- St. Ignatius of Antioch (especially chapter 7 of his letter to the *Smyrnaeans), and the consistent teaching and witness of the Church that Jesus established for the first 1500 years of Christianity. It blew my mind to learn that a purely symbolic/memorialist view of Communion wasn't widely accepted until Ulrich Zwingli introduced the idea in the mid 1500s.
@@RangerGrant Thank you! I know the scripture verses. I did not know who started the symbolic idea. I know Protestants are aware of the Bible verses too, but for many it just doesn't click.
I’ve been watching Trent Horn, Brand Pitre, Steve Ray, Fr. Chris Alar, and Bishop Barron videos lately and my Catholic faith is getting stronger and stronger. Thanks for all your hard work! Please pray for the growth of Catholic faith in my country Indonesia 🇮🇩🙏🏽
Be careful any of those your named are heretics and preach another gospel. The apostle Paul warned us about this and his epistles. Mr. Baron has quoted second Vatican council which stipulates that even atheist can go to heaven as long as they do good things in this world. This is heresy, and your eternal salvation is at stake
I am currently a Protestant, raised in a non denominational church, and if I’m completely honest, I have been obsessively worrying about my own salvation for a long time, exactly as Trent says here. I stumbled upon pornography at 12 and have been essentially addicted for over a decade, and the Protestant line that truly saving faith leads to works has made me doubt the nature of my own faith constantly ever since. It always seemed to me that I was being asked to assume that the Lord would one day free me from my sin, rather than have faith that he already has. Between Trent and Matt Fradd constantly releasing videos like this one that seem to address my every concern in logical, loving ways, I’m starting to wonder if the Lord is trying to tell me something. Edit since people are still commenting here: currently enrolled in OCIA with my wife, slated for baptism and confirmation Easter of next year
Been there man, and I'm still on my journey to the Catholic Church, but I will say that, to me, it's been the most comforting realization that Jesus Christ established a Church that would stand until the end and here it is, still here and I can find it and be comforted by it. Keep searching, my friend!
But that’s the thing with Faith Alone. Your continual will to love and honor God is all the proof you need. Salvation is yours now, total redemption comes later! Love you friend, praying for freedom from this affliction (I’ve been there too!)!
Brother, I'll take some time to pray for you after I hit reply. I'm glad you're already aware of Matt Fradd and I'll mention Jason Evert as someone that Fradd has worked with and recommends for great resources to strengthen and grow in chastity. In our dialogs between Catholics and Protestants, there's always the danger of becoming caught up in our side 'winning', but I really do believe the only reason to come to one side over the other is because it is true and so my conviction is that the fullness of truth and the many gifts that God has given us are found in the Catholic Church. They can give you the fullness of peace, joy, and freedom in Christ available to you. Maybe you're starting to see some of that. God bless you in your journey.
often times the simplest decisions are the hardest to make. if you feel a tug towards catholicism then you should take that seriously. also, if you want to stop the prn then do what i did and set up some sort of devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mother Mary; she'll take care of you i promise.
Convert! Disciple of Apostle John St. Ignatius of Antioch(50-108 AD)- “Wherever the Bishop appears, there, let the people be, as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” 2 Thessalonians 2:15 tells us to follow oral tradition so not everything we follow has to be in scripture. Hebrews 13:17 says obey and submit to church leaders. 1 Timothy 3:15 says the church is the pillar of truth. The Bible doesn’t affirm sola scriptura. If the church is the pillar of truth it’s infallible not only scripture. The church is the one that gave us the Bible. Jesus left a church. One example of the church infallibility is the fact you believe the cannon off of the Bible is true. You believe the church without error picked the correct number of books to be in the cannon if you say that’s not infallible then you open the possibility that the cannon isn’t correct. There are other sources of truth and people we should follow. Acts 17:11 does prove sola scriptura because if the Thessalonians believed in only scripture they wouldn’t have became Christians because no verse in the Old Testament said the messiah would rise after 3 days. As Catholics we examine scripture too but we don’t believe it’s the only sole authority. Jesus affirmed traditions. Matthew 23:2-The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. The seat of Moses is an oral tradition Jesus affirms because there is no verse in the Old Testament saying people sit in the chair of Moses. Without the Catholic Church Protestants wouldn’t even have a 27 New Testament bible cannon that was chosen in the 4th century at the council of hippo. The oldest bible we have is Codex Sinaiticus which has the apocryphal books in them until Protestants removed them. As long as you accept the 27 New Testament cannon you accept church authority. It was the churches authority that decided which books are the word of God. If the Catholic Church is so wrong why do Protestants believe them why they say these books are the word of God why trust them they are many other letters Paul and other apostles wrote that are in the Bible how do you know they don’t belong there.Y’all still listen to the churches authority even though you try to reject the church.
This is exactly why my husband converted to Catholicism. He grew up a baptist PK and prayed “the prayer” when he was 7. But he often feared as a child and young man that his prayer wasn’t valid, so he prayed the prayer in panic often. The Church’s teachings helped make sense of salvation.
I had something similar when I was still a Protestant. What if my faith wasn't genuine? How could I still sin so badly of I was supposed to be saved? The Church's teaching, even if it takes away absolute certainty, and I think rightly so, makes so much more sense of salvation and Christian life into an adventure.
@@FreeGraceBibleBeliever Not just believing. In order to truly believe, for your belief to not be dead as St James puts it, you must also follow what that belief entails. As a soldier, do you have faith in your commander if you do not follow his orders?
@@FreeGraceBibleBelieverSimply believe? That's *not* what the scriptures say - for even the devils believe and they tremble. Come out of the man made cult and come into the true church Jesus founded with his unadulterated word. Belief is not enough!
@@FreeGraceBibleBeliever Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth-1Tim 3:15 She’s the only Church and Doctrine established by our God and Savior Jesus Christ. He appointed His apostles leaders, Peter as Head, gave THEM His authority, power, Sacraments and Teaching (The Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven). He wants everyone to be His Church, remaining in His Doctrine, receiving His Sacraments and Teaching or we do not have God. 2 Jn1:9, Heb13:9, Gal 1:6-9, Eph 4:4-6, Jn10:16, 17:20-26, Jn 3:5, 6:51-59, 1 Cor 11:23-29, 2 Cor 5:18-20, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 18:17-18, 16:18-19, 10:1-4, Mk 3:14-19, Eph 2:19-22, 1 Cor 11:28, Acts 20:28, 1 Pet 2:6-9 Jesus Christ rebuked the pharisees for making their own version of His True Church, just like ALL 44,000 other Christian Churches have done. Mt 23:1-39, Lk 11:37-54
I'm a simple man. I see a Counsel of Trent video and I watch it. Always great content!! I've learned a ton. And, you and a number of others have been a big part of my decision to join the Catholic church. Currently in O.C.I.A. and looking forward to full communion.
I have recently been getting back into my Catholic faith, going to mass early so that I can join in praying the rosary and staying after for adoration. Also been singing a lot more in mass too. Every time I feel so refreshed and I love it! Now I can see why people love the Catholic Church! I love being Catholic! God knows what’s best for us, that’s why He gave us the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Praise Jesus!
Thanks Trent, as a Catholic theres nothing better then a good Confession. I struggle with the 'preparation' for Confession and often wonder am I thinking of everything , but after Confession I feel so happy I went and feel 'renewed' to do better in future.
When i converted to Catholicism i had so many well meaning protestants concerned about my salvation now... i said "if you believe in faith alone than why are you worried about my salvation now that i am catholic? I have faith in Jesus..." i find it confusing when protestants think Catholics arent Christian...
@vladtheinhaler8940 HAHA, we became Catholic by reading the Gospels By casting aside what had been told to us by pastors and looking at what Jesus REALLY said. We found Catholicism fit perfectly and we were appalled. So we then tried to disprove Catholicism and couldn't. I know the gospel and I hope someday you stop worshipping a book and follow the Church Jesus started.
@@vladtheinhaler8940Protestants like you have a big problem understanding the difference between "the teachings of Scripture" and just your own interpretation of what Scripture teachea. I don't see a reason to believe your understanding of the gospel is the right one. That might be what your pastor Bob taught you, but I don't see a reason for it. The Catholics have a different understanding of scripture than you do, and I don't see why I should believe your interpretation over theirs.
And it's supposed to be a "conservative" state. Any political platform that doesn't have Christ at heart will eventually fall, because they do not the Eternal Word which proclaims and is all truth.
7:15 "Maybe when you gave your life to Christ at Vacation Bible School in the fourth grade, you weren't serious enough to make that decision, and so your salvation didn't really stick." I think you just put like 94% of the people in my area into an existential crisis.
@SheepOfChrist818 There are some very important works that we should trust in. I trust in the work that God has done to bring us to redemption, for example. I trust in believing in the one God has sent, which Jesus says is the work that God wants from us in John 6:29. Ephesians 2 teaches that we are God's workmanship, made for good works; I trust in God's workmanship, so I trust in His work in that respect as well; if I am able to do any works that are good and pleasing before God it is only because of God working in me - that is certainly work I can trust!
@SheepOfChrist818stop lying about Catholics. Works apart from grace are powerless to save, and it's the Catholic Church that identifies that nonsense as a heresy (Pelagianism, actually).
I agree with everything that Trent said, and I would like to add that sometimes doing good works even when we’re not in the mood to do them can be good for us and help us grow spiritually. I like that every Sunday is a Holy Day of obligation because on the days I just want to stay in my PJs and skip Mass, I still go, and I am always glad I went. Also, caring for others even when we don’t feel like it helps us to grow, learn, and become more mature.
This question has actually been on my mind a lot lately even in discussions with other Protestants. My absolute shortest answer possible is: whatever works God chooses to do through you. I'm frankly so tired of *both* sides focusing so hard on how any individual can know they are saved, whether by producing enough "evidence" or having a "genuine" enough faith. The Bible's way of putting it is just, "God saved you." And how do I know that? "He sent his Son to die for you." You're never expected to worry about the question, "But how do I know his atonement is applied specifically to me personally?" Just believe it and get to work in your new Christian life. Baptism and the Eucharist are ways he has told you your sins are forgiven and you are his child. They're something he does for you, not something you did in obedience to earn anything. Groups that have focused too hard on evidence and works have ended up making up fake works that are supposed to please God alone to the neglect and even isolation from all other humans. Women wearing skirts and not cutting their hair, not watching TV or playing sports or going to theaters or drinking alcohol, paying money to the church organization, door knocking to get people to come to church, etc. The kinds of works the Bible actually talks about are aimed horizonatally, not vertically. You don't need to do anything for God because he already did everything for you. Now go love your neighbor and actually help them, don't just "pray" for them.
Catholics don't have this dilemma, for us if you're baptized you are saved, unless you commit a mortal sin, and if you do, you can go to confession and know for certain that you're forgiven.
@@rosjierhall1997 The Medieval Roman Magisterium would prove otherwise. I'd actually argue the East is more immune to this problem, except they seem to keep getting sucked in to the discussion and feeling the need to denounce Protestantism despite nearly agreeing with us.
Thanks for this Kevin, this should be a top comment. Ever since I left Catholicism for a non denominational church, I haven't had any worries about 'am I really saved'. I suspect that people who do have those anxieties may be happier in a ritualistic context like Catholicism, where they just have to follow the correct steps to 'know' they're going to heaven. But just because it's comforting doesn't make it correct.
Okay, you can be tired of the issue, fair enough; but that doesn't make it go away, nor does it mean it isn't important. "Just believe it and get to work", may work as a strategy to avoid engaging with the question; but it doesn't work as an answer to the question. Effectively, your strategy here is to attack the question. But as I say, that doesn't make it go away. The question is a completely legitimate one, which emerges from the very nature of the claims Protestants make. If you believe you are saved by faith in Christ, and that good works are evidence of salvation, the question naturally arises: what constitutes good works? Are my works good enough? Now yes, of course, for peace of mind, or for practical reasons, you might decide to ignore that question and get on with your Christian life. I think that's a good practical strategy. But it's not an answer to the question. And it doesn't mean it's a bad question.
I’m Protestant, I’ve struggled with assurance of salvation, the turning point was very simple, since in me there is no good, if I see in me any measure of good( love for God, and good works proceeding by faith) I know I am saved
How can you say "In me there is no good" if the first chapter of the Bible says you were created in the image and likeness of God and as "very good"? How can you say that if God sees such value in you, that he chose to pay the price of his own blood for you? Secondly, if "any measure of good" is a sign of being saved, then everyone who ever existed is saved, as you can easily observe those signs in everyone. But that assumption leads to denouncing the importance of actually being a Christian.
@@_aelvirAdam and Eve may have been called very good before the fall, but that doesn’t mean we’re good. Jesus said only the father is good. None of us are good. And if you see good outside of the work of God, then you have the wrong interpretation of good. Respectfully of course. Love the sincere dialogue.
@@thetimeninja2178 I agree with this, but I never said that we are fully good. I only stated that some amount of that goodness remains in all of us. God is the source of all goodness, so just the fact that we are alive by His grace is the proof of God's goodness dwelling in us. There are also many different ways we can observe God's goodness in everyone, even pagans and grave sinners (I can elaborate if you want :D). And if that's the case, we are back to the second point of my original comment. And about the guy in 1 Corinthians 5. It doesn't say that there is no goodness in him, just that his sin was grave enough for excommunication, which doesn't mean he can't be ultimately saved (as the 5th verse suggests). I hope I'm writing clearly :P
Hello I’m not a catholic so I was just wondering he said good works strengthen faith. But he just like he said the Protestant did not explain what are good works according to Catholics.
I am protestant, and I think you have a point. There is a problem with our view on this, and we are left with the question you asked. Some protestants have a view that is similar to the catholic view, except that we don’t make reconciliation a sacrament. But I would love to see a dialogue on this.
There is no point. It’s all strawman. “I knew a Protestant that didn’t feel the need to go to church.” Yeah? I knew a catholic that supported gay marriage. This is called strawmanning, “one person did this? They all must be the same.”
Yep me too, that and I found out that we don't actually worship Mary or any other saints. Once I learned I was being lied to by my fellow protestants. I converted to Catholicism on August 6th 2020 7 days after meeting Jesus and Moses face to face. A year later I find out that August 6th is the feast of transfiguration. Of all the days I choose to get baptized and convert to Catholicism. I chose August 6th 2020. 7 days after meeting Jesus and Moses face to face. After the bullet in my picture bounced off of me.
You serious? That’s embarrassing. I can answer each question listed, it’s not difficult. (Edit) let me clarify this. I view other denominations as flawed, but still Christian. If anyone feels comfortable being a Protestant, catholic, orthodox etc, and they are noble serving God, then that’s fine by me.
I'm a Protestant and I agree that most Protestants have really bad doctrine for determining salvific faith and that many of the provided determining factors by Protestant apologists are ad hoc over-complications. To answer your question first by a clarification of definitions I think in the most faithful Biblical/sola fide way possible without any extra-Biblical "well actually" ad hoc explanation is as follows: I think there is a differentiation between the conception of "true faith" and "living faith", the former (not being a Biblical term) is most often conceptualized as faith that was actually real opposed to a false faith which was never faith in the first place (perhaps a false "mental assent faith"), and the latter (being a Biblical term) referring to that faith which is Spirit living, active, driven by a relationship with the very God who is the very life-giving source of the faith (1 Corinthians 15:45). The latter is in contrast to dead faith rather than a false faith, which was never faith in the first place. So with that out of the way my answer is that the quality/quantity of good works would depend on the extent to which that Christian is living in their faith/to what extent they are partaking of the living/divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and would include common examples of works in the Bible (fruits of the Spirit etc. etc.), *BUT* this does not determine the veracity or truth of their prior/initial faith, it just speaks to what degree they are in their faith in their present living reality. Mixing these up is where we get the bad ad hoc Protestant explanations that draw inaccurate lines around false faith, muddy the waters, actively work against gospel assurance, and ultimately miss the heart of what faith is which I will try to expand on. To maintain a living/active faith I would agree with Catholics to the extent that one must avoid mortal sins, this is very clear from 1 John 1:6. But being as one who has been called out by God to be a called saint (1 Corinthians 1:2) having experienced initial faith is not called into question by a lack of works or by participation in the most unchristian mortal sins. I cite 1 Corinthians because Paul was very clear that Christ belonged to the Corinthians and that they had come into faith despite their lack of good works and their deadness in their mortal sins. This is because, based on the definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1, faith is the very substantiation of Jesus Christ through the Spirit. When you put together these verses that compliment each other: Romans 10:17+Hebrews 4:12+Acts 15:8-9 you get the full picture that faith is the substantiation of Jesus Christ as the very Logos Who became a life-giving Spirit, and as a result, Paul says that the test of being in the "true faith" is: 2 Corinthians 13:5 - "Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" The true test of faith is ultimately determined by whether you have substantiated Jesus Christ as Spirit. Now before I give further defense of this statement, assuming it is accurate, on the basis of it we can say that sola fide can be accurate, as the living, operating faith is the mode through which the living God who works it out in us if we so permit Him. Like the Apostle Paul says in Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." It is not his faith in fact, it is the "faith of the Son of God" who lives in him and not only him, but Christ imparts faith and life to us all through His resurrection. If we are in the living faith, if Christ lives in us, then Christ's living and good works will be manifest, and in this respect we can affirm the quoted statements of Luther and Calvin in the matter. So then our assurance of salvation comes not from showing a specific amount of good works, but rather it comes from receiving Christ (Romans 8:10, John 1:12) via believing, repenting, confessing. This is true sola fide. This is the end of my main engagement with the topic, but for anyone who is interested in the validity of prior interpretation, here is a study of Hebrews 11:1 and short comments on James 2:17: With regard to Hebrews 11:1, translations differ greatly on the translation for the Greek “hypostasis” (ὑπόστασις), "confidence" and "assurance" are used by some, which are valid translations but seemingly don't capture the full Greek meaning in this context. The LEB translation uses "realization", but the word primarily means substance, so here I prefer Strong’s (5287.) usage (b) or (c) “a giving substance (or reality) to.” In the context of the verse Hebrews 11:1 ("Now faith is the ὑπόστασις of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.") it denotes the substantiating of the substance (of things hoped for, things not seen), so I think the best translation is "substantiation." John Chrysostom says "The resurrection has not yet taken place, but faith substantiates (ὑφίστησιν) it in our souls." So with this understanding cross referenced with 1 Peter 1:8 (see "faith" and "Jesus Christ" in 1:7) and 1 Peter 1:3 (see "living hope"), we see that faith is the substantiation ("giving substance to") Christ Himself as the life-giving Spirit through His resurrection. Therefore, what then does James mean when he says faith is dead without works? (James 2:17). It simply means that there is no substantiation of the Holy Spirit without works; the Holy Spirit is not operative in one in whom there is no works. And this is consistent with the sense in which James uses the word "justified" here- to prove faith to your fellow man, not to God, for God already knows the heart of faith and gives the Holy Spirit Himself (Acts 15:8). There is very strong credence here to the interpretation that "justified" ("by works") within the context of James 2 refers to the outward evidence of the inward reality that justifies us before other men rather than the Romans 5:1 faith process that justifies us before God. To become an enlivened believer with works we must be open to be indwelt by and brought on by the Holy Spirit continually, to have it be Christ who lives in us rather than the body of flesh, but to merely initially have "true faith", it only requires that one initially receives Jesus Christ.
Excellent as always! As a protestant who is in the process of converting to Catholicism I think a round table with different protestants would be so important. I don’t think most protestants realize the vast difference in theology within it. I think this is especially important for fundamental and evangelicals. Once I saw how very different views were within it I then started questioning everything which has led me to the Catholic Church. I think most protestants realize that there are differences that’s why we church hop so much but I don’t think they really understand the significant differences in doctrines of faith and honestly church hopping leads to an odd blending of all of these doctrines. Wouldn’t it be great to see a Lutheran, an Anglican, a Baptist , a mega church non denom and a Calvinist sitting together discussing it with you!
Thank you Trent for all your hard work. We truly need more Catholic Apologetic. I'm currently reading St. Augustine of Hippo Confessions, of course the Bible and of course the Church. I have been starting to help people around the church with their own faith. God has spoken to me and my soul feels like a fire is inside. I feel like what the many Saints spoke about when they found God and placed him above all, the Creator of all. "Great are you, O Lord, and exceedingly worthy of praise"
Trent - your question to Protestants can also be used for Catholics. If we are saved by good works in conjunction with faith, how much good works, and what do those works look like? How do you know if you’ve done enough?
Show me in the catechism of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church where it says we are saved by works. Hint- it’s not there. The Church teaches that we are saved by grace through faith working in love. Part of that faith and working in love is being obedient and cooperating with Gods grace and will- as Jesus said “if you love me you will keep my commandments.” John 14….what did he command us to do? Love God with all our heart mind body and soul. Love our neighbors. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the distressed, visit the imprisoned…..help when and how we can; this is cooperation with Gods will and obeying Jesus. There is no specific requirement for numbers or amounts in Catholicism that I am aware of.
How do you know if you’ve done enough? You’ll know you’ve done enough when you’re dead. What do the works look like? Look to the Corporal works of Mercy. How much is enough good works? Dedicate your life to doing good works and you’ll get enough in. I believe Faith is tremendously important, but only tells half the story. Ask yourself, why would God create creation? Why would God incarnate himself? Might, as Tertullian put it, “flesh be the hinge of salvation”, and actions play a special role in our lives apart from our beliefs?
@ragnardanneskajold1 explains the first point that I was going to make. It is not faith+works. (since the eternal penalty for sin cannot be removed without Jesus sacrifice) Salvation in assured for a Catholic that remains in state of grace (not committing mortal sin), that is, you will go to heaven if you die in state of grace. You remain in state of grace by not sinning mortally and receiving the sacraments. But , we are called not only to be saved , not only to go to heaven But to love God and become like Christ (live like he lived - "be perfect like your Father in heaven is perfect" or " love one another as i have loved you") . Hope that helps.
@@carlosojeda7257 that is faith + works though. Either Christ’s death is fully sufficient (faith) or it isn’t and you have to add something to it (works). What you just described is that Christ’s death is not fully sufficient to cover all sin - past, present, and future - therefore you have to continue doing good works to ensure salvation. In doing so, you - and the Catholic church as a whole - are diminishing the finished work of Christ on the cross and making Him and the Father impotent to handle all sin.
As a Protestant I don’t ever worry if I’m producing enough “good works”. I do worry that I am walking in obedience, as we all should. That should be your primary question. Some may worry about works but perhaps they are young in the faith or have not worked out their faith. I don’t worry about my salvation because the Holy Spirit testifies to my conscious that I am saved. Moreover my relationship with Jesus Christ has regenerated my soul that my life is transformed, my own testimony affirms to me my salvation. Realize that this transformation was nothing that I alone could do but only Christ in me.
‘The HOLY SPIRIT testifies to my conscious that I am saved.’ ‘Conscious?!’ How is that?! To us Catholics it is a sin of presumption. To be saved to us is a process up until our death and only GOD can really say we are saved when we come face to face with HIM and welcome us into HIS Kingdom. That is why we need to be always in the state of HIS Grace through the Sacraments. GOD bless you always, all of you in the family.
@@Eracruz30Great observation! I too noticed that he is pronouncing his judgement according to his own conscious. This is gravely dangerous since we ourselves are not our own judge but it is God alone who judges even the hidden things. St. Paul in his epistle testified against this heretical view of false security that has plagued the followers of the reformers for centuries.
There is a book called “4 Views on the Role of Works in the Final Judgment.” Wilkin wrote a chapter on free grace theology and it was absolutely abysmal. I definitely suggest it because it includes a chapter on the Catholic view by Michael Barber and each chapter has 3 subsequent responses from the proponents of the other views. Thanks for doing this video! I can attest that when I was a baptist, it was a constant source of anxiety in my circle to question whether you “truly believed” and therefore were “truly saved” ESPECIALLY when you are struggling with committing a sin. Making the distinction between initial justification which has nothing to do with works and subsequent justification which is increased by works is very helpful for Protestants in my experience. Because then, there is a nuanced sense in which we can accept “sola fide” - as is evident from our Catholic heritage. Great video as always!
Hey brother, since I live in South Carolina, I have to ask this. Why do so many Baptists and the groups that sprung from them ask questions like "if you died tonight, do you know if you're going to heaven"? It's a bit presumptuous to assume I'm not saved. After all, these people'd never met me!
A top 10 episode of CoT. Two expressions of justification: - Faith = Salvation + Works - Salvation = Faith * (Works + 1) + AO Thereby salvation is a result of faith and no bad works and God's grace.
Talking about some generic "Protestantism," quoting Luther, Calvin, and some other dead guys but then featuring only modern-day evangelicals and revivalists is "strawmanning" your opponents big time. Would be like me talking about "Catholics" and claiming mainstream folks like Trent, sede vacantists, sede privationists, SSPX, Old Catholics, and Anglo-Catholics have basically the same view on Pope Francis--namely, that he is a modernist heretic and anti-pope. That wouldn't be fair or make any sense, would it. But it's exactly what Trent does in this video re sola fide and the assurance of salvation. Now, maybe he just doesn't know any better and is simply unaware of the substantial differences within Protestantism. Which would be sad. But it'd still be better than deliberately strawmanning the other side to make them sound like a bunch of incoherent losers. Right?
We aren't saved by faith alone because faith can't be alone, but is accompanied by the additional theological virtues of hope and charity (Gal 5:6, 1 Cor 13:13, Hebrews 11:1)
@SheepOfChrist818 the same John 6 that is the Bread of Life narrative, where Jesus commands that we eat his literal flesh? Do you believe the Eucharist contains the Real Presence of Jesus?
The Bible says that Christ died for your sins and was raised from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). This is the gospel. Will you believe it? Will you trust your life to what it says? Some confuse the simple matter of trusting in Christ with unscriptural appeals to “invite Christ into your heart” or “accept Christ as your Savior.” Such appeals, while well-intentioned, are not the gospel. One is saved by trusting in the person and work of Jesus on the cross for us and in his resurrection-not by “inviting Christ into one’s heart.” Is your trust in the Christ who died for you and was raised for you? Do you trust in Christ’s death and resurrection on your behalf? If the answer is “yes”, then you have God’s own word and faithfulness that you have eternal life and will spend eternity with Christ. Furthermore, salvation is not something that can be “lost” because you sin. Jesus’ death solved the sin problem forever. What you do or do not do has no effect on your salvation because it is Christ’s work that is sufficient before God. To believe that you can commit some sin and “lose” your salvation is to believe that your sin is greater than Christ’s work on the cross and the power of his resurrection. Such belief strikes at the very heart of Christ’s work and insults the integrity of God. The only possible way one can “lose” salvation is to reject the work of Christ.
@SheepOfChrist818 Christ be with you That is just mocking God. Do not be deceived; *God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.* For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; *but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.* *And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.* (Gal 6:7-9) Maybe when you get to Chapters 14-15 you will know what it means to believe in the one the Father sent, “Truly, truly, I say to you, *he who believes in me will also do the works that I do;* and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. (John 14:12) I think with statements like that you really need to think about whether you have Christ. Any one who goes ahead *and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God;* he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. *If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work.* (2 John 9-11) Come to Christ and Live
At 8:40 it is important to recognize that sin can also be sins of omission not just sins of commission. For example, failing to do ones duty can be a grave sin. Like a parent failing to properly care for their children, or a police officer failing to take action according to their oath of office, or a worker gravely wasting time at work. So often we focus on things we did wrong and neglect to have contrition for failing to do something we should have done.
A protestant can believe they are saved, everyone who knows them believes they are saved, yet they can fall away then everyone will say that they were never saved to begin with. So in protestantism, the reality is, one can never ever know if they are truly "saved."
It all seems like the marksman fallacy, but applied at the point of judgment. These ones were true Christians because they were saved. These others were never true Christians at all. Maybe it is from God's perspective, but that is not very helpful for the individual Christian, or pseudo Christian as the case may be. Thank God for His Church and the sacraments. And the angel of the Lord came again the second time, and touched him, and said to him: Arise, eat: for thou hast yet a great way to go. (1 Ki 19:7, DRC)
The Bible says that Christ died for your sins and was raised from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). This is the gospel. Will you believe it? Will you trust your life to what it says? Some confuse the simple matter of trusting in Christ with unscriptural appeals to “invite Christ into your heart” or “accept Christ as your Savior.” Such appeals, while well-intentioned, are not the gospel. One is saved by trusting in the person and work of Jesus on the cross for us and in his resurrection-not by “inviting Christ into one’s heart.” Is your trust in the Christ who died for you and was raised for you? Do you trust in Christ’s death and resurrection on your behalf? If the answer is “yes”, then you have God’s own word and faithfulness that you have eternal life and will spend eternity with Christ. Furthermore, salvation is not something that can be “lost” because you sin. Jesus’ death solved the sin problem forever. What you do or do not do has no effect on your salvation because it is Christ’s work that is sufficient before God. To believe that you can commit some sin and “lose” your salvation is to believe that your sin is greater than Christ’s work on the cross and the power of his resurrection. Such belief strikes at the very heart of Christ’s work and insults the integrity of God. The only possible way one can “lose” salvation is to reject the work of Christ.
@@brutus896 Catholics have as scripture teaches: hopeful confidence but not false assurance. Even St Paul does not judge himself. He says he is not acquitted. God is his judge.
@@brutus896 if they lose sanctifying grace through unrepentant mortal sin, the gift of salvation is lost. No one takes the gift away. One does it to themselves and God out of love lets them go, giving man free will to say yes, or no
Sometimes I think the Sola Fide position where you can only be saved once really only applies to the Virgin Mary. She was saved through Christ before she ever sinned and has been saved her whole life. Any other Christian cannot say the same.
Protestant answer: the fruit of the Holy Spirit - love joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self control, etc. these are the essence of good works as they are the motives which spur on good works.
This ties into issue with confessional protestants denial of venial/mortal sin distinction. If all sins are mortal and genuine believers are constantly committing them and even their best works are vitiated with sin (so a habitual lifestyle) and failing God's perfect standard, why arent such believers excommunicated/disciplined by their church? What differentiates the true from false believer if all sin is mortal? It's obvious every Protestant church ends up creating an ad hoc mortal/venial sin distinction even as their theology denies it.
I've been Catholic for little less than one year. But I love confession! Sure, it's often nerve wracking before hand, examining your conscience and putting it all into words, and thinking about saying it out loud to someone. But getting it all out, honestly, holding nothing back and hearing the words of absolution is so refreshing. There are sins in my past that used to come back to memory and haunt me, though I had stopped doing them and confessed privately to God. But after becoming Catholic and bringing them to sacramental confession, I can remember them of course, but they don't haunt me. I don't feel that awful twinge of inward shame anymore.
I’ve watched a few of Trent’s videos and I see his play. I think Trent knows the Catholic ignorant of Protestantism and the Protestant in weak theology mainstream churches May not see what he’s doing. I am Reformed Baptist and I’m 100% confident in my salvation because “Sola Fide” doesn’t stand alone. It is accompanied by 4 other Solas doctrines. Whenever I “feel” unsaved because I am a wicked sinner, I cast away the “feelings” and place my faith in the Truth which is that Christ died for me. That’s the first reminder of true saving faith in my life. Secondly, Trent uses historically reformed preachers often and mixes in bad just bad preachers to obfuscate and blend all Protestants in like he does with the youth ministry skit. What good works? Hatred for my past sin which I loved, my overall positive growth towards Godliness and holiness. What about habitual sin? Like my porn addiction? The one I loved and now hate? Well with time and faith in Jesus Christ, loving him, and falling, and returning to him and falling and again… after many many years, I have success and freedom. Was I saved? Absolutely… THAT IS THE POINT of sola fide. And Sola Gratia, and Solus Christus. What I could not accomplish, he accomplished for me… “and there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.” Romans 8:1 (notice it doesn’t say, unless you do the sacraments). I’m regenerate to the Glory of God alone and saved to Christ I could continue going on dismantling what he says, “you aren’t really refraining from sinning”. No, yes I am. Jesus says I am not a slave to sin. Romans 6. And Whom the Son sets free is free indeed. John 8:36. And “resist the devil and he will flee”. James 4:7. I actively resist and refrain and war against my flesh. The Protestants have written a thousands of pages on this. Why do I refrain? Again, I used to LOVE my sin and now I don’t. How did such a change come about? Well, I hated the light and loved my sin. I couldn’t choose light. It HAD to be by something other than my own choosing because I HATED the light. Christ saved me. Trent says “God doesn’t really forgive because he forgave you once”. Let’s be clear about what he is saying here. He redefined God as not omnipresent, not omniscient and not the alpha and omega. God can’t save you once and for all, he must wait to do it in real time. He is limited by you and your time. What a false gospel.
*_“Sola Fide” doesn’t stand alone. It is accompanied by 4 other Solas doctrines._* With all honesty, how can you have 5 sola's? Doesn't sola mean alone? *_I’m 100% confident in my salvation_* You stated that hatred for your past sins is evidence of this. I am not asking this as a gotcha I honestly want to know how can you have 100% certainty that 40 years from now you might hit a low point in life and return to loving those sins again? *_“you aren’t really refraining from sinning”. No, yes I am. Jesus says I am not a slave to sin. Romans 6._* But 1 John 8 says: 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. Also, Proverbs tells us the righteous fall seven times a day, and rise again. *_Trent says “God doesn’t really forgive because he forgave you once”. Let’s be clear about what he is saying here. He redefined God as not omnipresent, not omniscient and not the alpha and omega. God can’t save you once and for all, he must wait to do it in real time. He is limited by you and your time. What a false gospel._* You are twisting what Trent was saying here. He is saying exactly what John says.....If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If is a word that means on the condition of. All Trent is saying is God doesn't forgive a future sin based on yesterday's confession of a different sin. This has nothing to do with God being in or out of time, it has to do with you being in time. Sure God can forgive you for a sin you haven't committed yet, but that is because He would also know that you repented of that particular sin. Guess what He is outside of time and He also knows which sins you don't repent of in the future. That's what Trent is saying. Do you honestly believe if you confess to stealing a candy bar today you are automatically forgiven of adultery 10 years from now, even if you don't confess of that sin? God Bless
@@Matt-1926 God bless you. Thank you for engaging. I do believe some brothers in Catholicism are saved and brothers in Christ. 1. The 5 Solas - the answer is no. Each sola addresses a separate doctrine that builds on top of the others without contradicting. You don’t have to agree but if you read it, it should make sense. 2. Again, the answer is no. I don’t just “feel” saved and 100% confident of it. I dont just like the feeling of being righteous before God and get what we call “therapeutic moralism”. Saving faith isn’t just “belief”. It is a change in nature. As Christ says “born again” and “a new creation”. I don’t just love what I hated and hate what I loved… the Spirit causes an “unveiling” of the eyes. And what didn’t make sense suddenly makes sense now. Like how pornography leads to anger issues… how it affects my marriage. How wicked and prideful I am. How sin leads to death. I now see behaviors I had in others who follow them to their ultimate conclusion and they wonder how they got there. (I’m in law enforcement). And I see Christ saved me from such a life. It is a logical, conceptual change in understanding. I understand now. Romans 12 a “transformation of the renewal of the mind”. 3. I’m glad you mentioned 1 John. I left it out of my original comment because it is obviously too long already. All of 1 John is John reassuring believers of true faith that they ARE SAVED and how to know it. It debunks all of Trent’s video. You CAN know you are saved by employing the tests John lays out in 1 John. Btw, I never said I didn’t sin. I am a wicked sinner. How do I know I’m saved? Because my life is of continual repentance. I didn’t just say a prayer once. I repent daily and confess my sins to the best of my ability. The accomplished work of my forgiveness happened only once when Christ himself said “it is finished”. “The righteous shall live by faith”… 4. My contention with Trent is the same argument you unknowingly made. You have redefined God. He is Sovereign. He is not bound by man or time. You said “sure God can forgive you for a sin you haven’t committed yet, but that is because He would also know you repented of that particular sin”. 3 problems. Problem A: you reduced God once again to being time bound. God didn’t ordain all things AND predestine the elect “before the foundation” Ephesians 1:3-14… man has in one way or another “autonomy”. Problem B: God not knowing the future must first look into it and see what you have decided (repented of particular sin) returns back in time and forgives you before you’ve repented. In other words, God learns or has learned by reading the book of time in advance. That is not an omniscient God, that is a God who needs to learn more. Problem C: I don’t know about you… but I am very confident I have sins that I don’t repent of and don’t even know I’m sinning. Idols I’ve elevated above God, work, wife, etc that are God but may take God’s proper place at times that I don’t repent of. What do you do with those? Forgiven by sacraments? Again, “therefore there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus” and he said “it is finished”. So… I trust in his accomplished work that I being finite May never know the fullness of my own sin. Here is my challenge, rewatch Trent video and see his explanation of Protestant true saving faith brings about good works and that’s how we know we are saved. And since you brought up 1 John, read all 5 chapters and tell me it’s not what John is EXACTLY preaching there. 1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you MAY KNOW that you HAVE eternal life” I hope no animosity is translated via this text. Look forward to your response… graciously, Sam
@@samueljimenez7420 Thanks for the reply. *_You don’t have to agree but if you read it, it should make sense._* Thanks, for the clarification. I'll try to find some time to research it. From my understanding different people define the meaning of the sola's differently. Any particular definition you recommend looking into? *_Again, the answer is no._* I'm not understanding your response here. Are you saying no I'm wrong or are you agreeing that you can't know the future? Everything you presented here is past or present tense. Yes I agree you made a logical, conceptual change in understanding. My question is how can you know with infallible certainty that you won't change back? My point is I could see someone saying 99% certainty but to say 100% is to claim you know the future. *_Btw, I never said I didn’t sin._* Sorry I must have miss understood when you replied _*No, yes I am.8_ to Trent's comment “you aren’t really refraining from sinning”. So you are saying Trent was right and you aren't really refraining from sinning? *_Because my life is of continual repentance. I didn’t just say a prayer once. I repent daily and confess my sins to the best of my ability._* I agree with this. My question (which is what Trent is getting at) is what happens if you stop repenting? *_The accomplished work of my forgiveness happened only once when Christ himself said “it is finished”._* Yes it only happened once but I believe you are misinterpreting the meaning of "It is finished". Basically, if "it is finished" is what you claim it means then you just also denied the importance of the resurrection here. *_Problem A: you reduced God once again to being time bound._* How come you ignored my first sentence? "All Trent is saying is God doesn't forgive a future sin based on yesterday's confession of a different sin." This is the context of my comment. How does this comment make God time bound? *_God didn’t ordain all things AND predestine the elect “before the foundation” Ephesians 1:3-14… man has in one way or another “autonomy”_* I'm not following you here. Are you saying God doesn't care if we repent and he already predestined us regardless of our repentance? Autonomy means the capacity/ability of an agent to act in accordance with objective morality rather than under the influence of desires. Just because we have the ability to act morally doesn't mean we won't stop in the future. *_Problem B: God not knowing the future must first look into it and see what you have decided (repented of particular sin) returns back in time and forgives you before you’ve repented._* My goodness man you're doing the same thing to me. You are twisting my words. I never said God has to look into the future. I said....."Guess what He is outside of time and He also knows which sins you don't repent of in the future." I already said he is outside of time and already knows. How do you get from He knows to this means I believe he has to look into the future? *_That is not an omniscient God, that is a God who needs to learn more._* Could you please explain how me saying God already knows equates to you understanding me saying God has to learn? I honestly have no clue how I could have made it any clearer to keep you from coming to this conclusion? *_Problem C: I don’t know about you… but I am very confident I have sins that I don’t repent of and don’t even know I’m sinning._* Not seeing the problem. If you didn't know you were doing it then you weren't doing it freely therefore it's not mortal. This is the reason why children below the age of reason and the mentally handicapped aren't guilty of sin. *_What do you do with those?_* Yeah that's the question I am asking. If you become aware of these sins do you have to repent to be forgiven or not? If you start doing these sins again in the future are you forgiven even if you have no intention of repenting? *_Again, “therefore there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus” and he said “it is finished”_* We obviously interpret these verses differently. Because this is the same Paul who also said 2 chapters later........22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, *_provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off._* Here's another one of those "ON CONIDTION OF" words here. Paul uses them all throughout his writings, not really sure why so many Christians ignore them? This is the entire point Trent is making ON CONDITION you continue in God's kindness (which would include future repentance), otherwise you too WILL BE CUT OFF. If Christ's work is finished and there is nothing for us to do then how can we be cut off, because of lack of continuing in God's kindness, according to Paul? *_I trust in his accomplished work that I being finite May never know the fullness of my own sin_* This has nothing to do with fullness this has to do with whether or not we have to repent of future sins or if we repentant once and "it is finished" no future sin matters anymore. *_Here is my challenge, rewatch Trent video and see his explanation of Protestant true saving faith brings about good works and that’s how we know we are saved._* Here's my challenge rewatch the video and notice he is asking a question not giving a definitive definition. It blows my mind how it's going over so many peoples heads. He is doing the same thing to Protestants that is done to Catholic everyday. We are always asked "if you believe works are necessary then how many works?" He just turned the table on the ridiculous question that is always asked of Catholics. *_1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you MAY KNOW that you HAVE eternal life”_* I'm not seeing the issue with this verse. John says YOU HAVE here. The Greek word here is "echete". This is a PRESENT TENSE indicative active verb. So John is teaching in this entire book that if at this very moment (present tense) you are currently doing all these things(active verb) then you can know that at this very moment you have eternal life. John doesn't say you WILL HAVE eternal life. He isn't teaching anything here about we can know with 100% certainty that we will be saved 40 years from now. *_I hope no animosity is translated via this text. Look forward to your response… graciously, Sam_* It would be nice if you actually responded to what I said instead of what you think I am saying. But other than that I rarely take offense from others. The way I see it we all have a fallen human nature and part of that nature has been and always will be disagreement. At the end of the day even if we don't agree on the interpretation we are still both fighting for Jesus. God Bless
@@Matt-1926 @Matt-1926 15 hours ago @samueljimenez7420 Thanks for the reply. I'd recommend a Reformed Baptist or Reformed Presbyterian Perspective. Ligonier website "What are the 5 Solas" is a good quick read. As a reformed Baptist/Presbyterian (working through paedobaptism yet which is the doctrine that divides these two camps), we are also "Calvinist". Meaning, we believe in the 5 points of Calvinism. The Acronym is TULIP. Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement (many prefer a different wording), Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints. Obviously, we believe these to be evident in Scripture alone. To this particular point, I'd point to two of those doctrines. God chooses whom he saves, (Ephesians 1 and 2, Romans 8 and 9 among many other passages). And he perseveres the Saints... (in protestantism, we believe Scripture uses saints to mean all of God's people.) (John 6:37-69, Romans 8:28-30). There are many other passages. Maybe we are confusing ourselves. I sin daily. I am also empowered by the Holy Spirit to resist the devil and it is a commandment to do so. Prior to the "born again new birth", I had the ability to choose only sin. After salvation, we have freedom to choose either... choosing sin by falling into temptation and in moments of weakness, repenting and hating that sin and choosing freely to strive for holiness. That which i couldn't do before being saved. What makes a good work, a good work? It is now done to the Glory of God. Why did I give alms to the poor prior to conversion? For my own benefit. Why after salvation? To honor my Lord Jesus Christ and in obedience to him. THAT is what makes it a good work. Again, maybe I don't understand your question. God sustains the saints (believer) until the end. John 6. If such a person does not continue repenting it was because "they were never of us". 1 John 2:19. It is a false faith, a false conversion. That person never truly repented... he saw Christianity as a way to "self-improve" his life and feel better about himself. People do this with all other religions, including some of the worst... like Islam. Can you explain to me why I deny the importance of the resurrection? I don't believe I do. The Bible speaks of God in terms of a court, judge, and law. Guilty and innocent. Upon the cross, Christ pays the penalty and we are declared "innocent". Forgiven. Upon his resurrection, he proves to the world he is the Christ. The Father, poured ALL his wrath on Christ once and for all. That's ALL of Hebrews. He doesn't reserve some for you waiting in real time for you to repent or perform a sacrament. It is finished. I thought I addressed your question. Let me try a different way. Upon true saving faith, you repent of all your sin, and your attitude towards God. We "were enemies of God (Romans 5:10). The human condition makes it impossible for us to comprehend the totality of our sin and/or some sin in real time. The Protestant view is that you repent but also "have faith in Jesus" and he is faithful to forgive. Forgive what? Even the sin you don't know you should repent of. If we were bound simply to forgiveness by the act of repenting of a sin or a conglomerate of sins, we're screwed. Trent whole premise is wrong. Maybe that's why I didn't engage with it. I reject that premise. A great quote I like is "I'm not a sinner because I sin, I sin because I'm a sinner". I repented of my entire demeanor towards God, my hatred for his commandments and his law. He is faithful to forgive my sins. I confess to Christ my sin and repent daily out of gratitude and obedience. Not to "regain" or "re-earn" a rightful standing before Him. Christ accomplished that for me. God is "Sovereign" and by definition man cannot be "autonomous". man has in one way or another “autonomy” You chose a definition of "Kantian Moral Philosophy". The other definitions are "self-government" and "free from outside influence". The Bible speaks of our "inability" or "Total Depravity" to choose God. "They hated the light because they loved the darkness". Romans 3 says, "There is NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, There is none who seeks God, no not one." God must intervene to save some or else ALL would go to hell. He alone saves. The Bible also says, Ephesians 2:10, "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which. You asked: God absolutely cares and not only does he care, he calls ALL to repentance. The Bible speaks of two parallel truths. (If you're interested watch John MacArthur on RUclips (Twin Truths). God's Sovereignty to choose whom he saves and Man's Responsibility to repent. Before you ask how is this possible... read Romans 9. I don't wish to twist your words and will rephrase and maybe you can engage my view. When Christ he actually accomplishes "two" things. I should've mentioned this above. He pays the penalty due our sins and achieves "righteousness" on our behalf. "The cup" of wrath is poured on him at the cross and through the perfect active and passive obedience of his life he accomplishes righteousness on our behalf. If he had simply died for our sins, we'd be forgiven for a second and then guilty again by our own actions. But he also accomplishes for us "righteous" so that all who trust in him may have eternal life. God knows our sin, past, present and future, because he ordained all things and Christ died knowing all things ordained. Again, God is listed as "judge", "just and justifier", "declaring just and unjust", and Christ as "lawyer", and "law". This isn't how justice works. It doesn't even work like that in our broken system. Just because you didn't know or weren't doing it "freely" doesn't mean you aren't guilty. Again, follow this rabbit down the rabbit hole. If such a thing is true, the worst you can do is preach the gospel and tell people of Jesus Christ. By preaching, you've now contributed to their punishment if they reject Christ. Leave them in their ignorance and they may have a chance. The elect will ALWAYS repent. It is in their nature to do so. If someone does not repent, they aren't part of the elect. I repent of my sins, not to earn or re-earn God's favor. I repent and trust in Christ's already accomplished forgiveness. Yes some people "apostatize" and fall away. Some people are false converts. This doesn't deny God's elect will always persevere to the end. I 100% agree with this statement. The disagreement we have is on the premise. Who is in "God's kindness"? Do I have to continue worrying about God's kindness as a Catholic then? It sure seems implied by your statement. The Bible says the church was "wheat and tears". The Wheat are God's elect who will persevere to the end and the tears are false converts. The warning is to the false converts. And sometimes, false converts become wheat because of the warnings of "on condition of". This isn't ignored in Protestant circles. Again, the elect (God's chosen people) will persevere. Here is my challenge, rewatch Trent video and see his explanation of Protestant true saving faith brings about good works and that’s how we know we are saved. Here's my challenge rewatch the video and notice he is asking a question not giving a definitive definition. It blows my mind how it's going over so many peoples heads. He is doing the same thing to Protestants that is done to Catholic everyday. We are always asked "if you believe works are necessary then how many works?" He just turned the table on the ridiculous question that is always asked of Catholics. You are correct, Present tense... I know I HAVE (present tense) eternal life because Christ accomplished it for me. I know that 40 years from now, I will be living out 1 John more Christ-like than I am "presently", because I "have" eternal life.. All truly saved will always to varying degrees and peaks and valleys, be a 1 John type of person. I shall leave you with this. Remember 1 John is addressing gnosticism. Many were being told they could not have "true fellowship" with Christ. John is assuring the saints they are in true fellowship with Christ. I want to assure you, if you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, that he died and rose again on the third day... you are NEVER EVER unsaved, or needs God's favor to be replenished towards you. You may live with the peace and certainty that he has accomplished for you everything. You can't contribute to your salvation, "not of works so that no one may boast". Jesus says in John 6, "all that the Father gives me I will cast out" And in another "I shall never lose any". Don't try to earn his favor or earn your salvation. He expressed his love for you by sending his son to die for you. He doesn't need more from you on top of that. Amen brother! God Bless
Hello Trent, I'm protestant (and non-native english person, apologies in advance for not seeing all nuances and maybe using an incorrect term here or there...), and I must say that I love and enjoy your contents, and praise God for your apologetic work. I do understand that Protestants and Cahtolics are not using the "Justification" term in the exact same way. I believe that what catholics usually mean by justification, is the long life process of living a life in accordance with God's moral framework, whereas protestants would use 'justification' to describe the judicial act of declaring someone righteous because of his acceptance of Christ' sacrifice. The equivalent term for protestants would be "sanctification", See Guillaume Bignon's works about this. Now, I see your objection being pastoral in nature as to how convince oneself, or others of your commitment to true faith. And while I think it is an excellent question, I find it somewhat moot. What would be the purpose of proving one-self to others? Why would I need to prove anything to God, that sees in my heart and knows whether or not my faith is true or not? Where is there a complication to be found in that? If it's to know for myself, I know if I am honest whether I believe or not that the sacrifice of Christ and my faith in it is sufficient to get justified (what catholics would put as "get into state of grace" I believe). As for sin, when committed, the bible clearly states that confession of our sin to God, he's faithful to forgive us (1 John 1.9), so there is a path to reconciliation. I would definitely like to hear a debate between Guillaume Bignon and yourself on the question "What is necessary to obtain salvation" and the protestant and Catholic answer to that question. It would be instructive, and see here whether the "faith alone" position, would really be inconsistent, whether it's simpler or more complex than the catholic answer, and which one would be the most inline with the biblical data. Again thank you for all your work, I really enjoy it, I'm learning a lot from you !
Thank you Sherekahn, you expressed my thoughts exactly concerning the different definitions/uses of the term "justification". I think Trent has an honest misunderstanding of the protestants use the term, where you correctly understand it. Unfortunately, his misunderstanding led to a video where many of his points weren't relevant. Protestants don't believe that our walk/life in Christ is done apart from works, but that our justification (being declared not guilty/being forgiven of sins) is by faith in Christ alone.
Would it be accurate to say that the second greatest commandment, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself", is sufficient to debunk Sola Fide? It seems impossible to love our neighbors without action.
I think at least one common response from someone who defends Sola Fide would be to say that any command/moral action we are told to do are about a right and good response to being saved, but they aren't the thing that actually saves us (which would of course be faith). So I wouldn't point to this or any other particular command. It might be more fruitful to discuss passages where it specifically teaches that not obeying those commands results in damnation (e.g. the sheep and the goats teaching in Matthew 25 or Paul teaching in 1 Cor 6 that the unrighteous will not inherit eternal life and listing several moral actions). But even those will still require some amount of dialog about what a reasonable understanding of them is, not just straight quotation, because if they are thoughtful about their faith they will already have an interpretive framework that would make it appear that those verses don't actually involve 'works' in salvation.
@@jwatson181 Matthew 22:34-40 "When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, and one of them, a scholar of the law tested him by asking, "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
@@BibleonaBoat 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are his creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, so that we may walk in them.
Even though this is a short video, I can say this is one of your best videos. Bc has a former Protestant/ anti-catholic, I can tell u this is the huge issue that is always taught in Prot churches. And my family church hopped in a lot of diff churches, So we always heard diff Churches but all talking about the same topic with Sola Fide, & Sola Scriptura/Canon. So I just wanted to add my 2cents in, & say the more videos we have on Sola fide, & Sola scriptura/canon the better. So we can bring in more of our Prot brothers & sisters, to the fullness of the truth. So we have to keep hammering on these two subjects over & over & over again, because these are the pillars, the foundation of what protestantism is. So once one of these teachings crumbles for them, the rest fall like dominoes & they can see that protestantism is unbiblical 💯💯💯 Lord bless u all
As a Lutheran, I agree with Trent Said. We do have the objectives means of grace in the Holy Sacraments. We don’t have to worry about how many works we do or the quality of our works. We rest in Christ and receive the the sacrament of confession and absolution and holy Eucharist every week.
Thank you Trent for sharing. Love your content. I am protestant, but my kids go to a private Catholic school so I'm pretty familiar with Catholicism. I've definitely been guilty of criticizing, the Catholic religion and as of late have kind of changed my thinking. Like you said a lot of the things that we preach and teach are so closely related, maybe you're right we are just coming up with different ways and kind of complicating some of the original basic things of the faith. With that being said Keep up the good work I'm sure that God will continue to bless your ministry.
I would love to see a genuine dialogue with them. Excellent video brother Trent. I struggled and fought with it, but ultimately I look at things based on outcomes; if I'm for Christ genuinely, I want to produce good work for Him regardless of which side is right.
Hello all. I see some Protestants get unhappy about these sort of videos. However they don't understand that commenting here only helps the video and also the channel to grow bigger and to get to more people on RUclips. So, I wish more Protestants come to express themselves and by doing so, helping the algorythm to recommend the video.
15:55 this description is remarkably similar to confessional Lutheranism with almost semantical differences: -Replace reconsiliation with Confession - Infant baptism delivers faith just not from the parents -continual justification could be called sanctification (I'll have to look into this more to be sure) The rest seemed very similar, the big difference would be the imputed vs infused debate Jimmy Atkin vs Jordan Cooper was a phenomenal dialogue on this topic
Catholics also call Reconciliation confession. Sometimes it's also called the sacrament of penance. All the same thing. I agree with you that practically, many (not all) protestant beliefs are very similar to Catholic teachings, just with a different vocabulary.
I went to a Protestant bible chat yesterday (I've been before so I knew what to expect) it typically just turns into a "gotcha" with Scripture amongst the different Protestant beliefs. I listened as a former Anglican engaged a Calvinist on whether or not we have to cooperate with God's grace. The Calvinist said that she was saved at 6 years old and there was a moment where it all "just made sense". I have an almost 5 year old son. That's pretty impressive at that age to have such a profound understanding of God and his doctrines AND to know you are saved and exactly what that means...... Very suspect to say the least.
As a father of 3 young children, I will just say don't underestimate how smart kids can be. Also, you don't necessarily need "a profound understanding of God and his doctrines" to be saved. The only thing necessary is the understanding that we are all sinners, Jesus died to save us from our sins, and rose again. These 3 basic facts are simple enough for everyone to understand.
The answer to your question is simple Trent. Fruits of the spirit. You don't prove it. You live it. You live it because you realized that you are a filthy, wicked sinner who if sent to hell will be the most fair outcome, and then you realize what Christ did to prevent it and give your life to him as a living sacrifice. Allan Par is wrong about feeling. It is not about feelings. It absolutely doesn't matter what we feel. We are slaves of Christ. We are nothing. He is everything. Justification by faith alone is true, but it shouldn't be preached the way it has been done. That is why we have all the people thinking that if they believed at certain moment of their lives they got saved and that's it. Does not matter how they live after it.
This was a thought provoking video. As an Anglican, I adhere to certain expressions of “sola Scriptura” and “sola fide” that differ in important respects from the typical ways they are expressed today, specifically in acknowledging the necessity of the dominical sacraments in salvation and the importance of the ancient ‘rule of faith’ and early patristic consensus in correctly recognizing the canon and interpreting the same. I have more thoughts on specific issues raised in the video, but bedtime is calling…
Oh the apple tree analogy for sola fide, we hear it time and time again…an apple tree doesn’t just produce fruit on its own, it still requires sunlight and water (works) for production.
Sunlight and water aren't produced by the tree. God makes it rain and the sun shine. The tree doesn't produce apples out of nowhere but is instead reliant on God providing the rain and the sun to bear fruit.
Here is what the Scripture says about this: Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. - 2 Corinthians 5:9-10
That's because even though you may be saved from condemnation, you works are judged to see if you deserve any kind of reward in the new heavens and new earth. We are told that people whose works were not actually good, and are like hay, wood, and stubble will be burned up, but that he himself will still be saved, where as others who had truely done good works that are like that of gold, and gemstones, they will also be tested but will not be burned away, and they shall keep those rewards. Both men are still saved from eternal damnation, but one enters into eternity with less than the other because his deeds were not good, and were burned away. Thaf is why we still have a general judgement despite faith being the only thing required for salvation.
Trent Moore knocked it out of the park with this video. The way he explained these issues was very articulate and I think it does present a big problem with Protestantism that people like alan parr need to answer. What are you saying? Makes perfect sense and it’s easy to see how specific doctrine on these types of things is better than a feeling or subjectivity.
Thanks again, Trent! I love the way that you, like one of my other heroes, C.S.Lewis, don't just refute the easiest case, but allow your opponents to state their case in the strongest possible terms ... and THEN refute it. BTW, to me the simplest refutation of "sola fide" is to read Matthew 25, 31-46 (the parable of the final judgment, "sheep and the goats"). Both the righteous and the unrighteous call Jesus "Lord", i.e. they all have some "faith", except it is not faith that the Lord demands of them - only charity.
@MalumbaBono. The late, great singer Keith Green had a song about the Sheep and the Goats and at the end of it he would intone that the only difference between them “is what they did and didn’t DO!” As much as I loved Keith Green’s music, there was one glaring weakness with his analysis: the sheep were SHEEP and the goats were GOATS. They were different not only in how they acted, but in who they innately WERE!!
That would be interesting. I think the first two are emphasized mostly because they are the only two that we can't really affirm, at least in a qualified sense. We agree that unmeritied grace is first in the order of conversion, we don't believe that anyone but Christ saves us, and we believe that merit or "glory" belongs first to God because our merits derive from God's grace working through us. Though Pope Benedict XVI did write that when properly understood we can even affirm "faith alone".
I guess I would explain it this way (I don't know what label that would put on it). A person is saved by grace though faith. Faith produces fruit through works that you want to do because of Christ now working in your life. People can see those works and know you are saved, but God doesn't need to see those works to see your faith. The works don't save you, but rather the faith.
you didn't answer the question though - what are these good works? is it going to church every day? every sunday? is it being nice most of the time? some of the time? should a man once saved leave the mother of his children because they aren't married and living in sin? or can he stay? how do you know you have the "faith that produces fruit"? How do you know you have Christ working in your life? Catholic Church has specifics - the works of mercy show life supernatural life in the soul - breaking the 10 commandments show death in the soul
@@captainwasabi13 As I said, I don't think works save you. Your faith does, and God knows your faith. Books like James say that because you are a Christian, you will product works/fruit that others will be able to see to know that you are a Christian, but it's not the works that save you. I think that means living, as best as you can, a life as Christ would live. People can't be perfect, but they can turn from their sin and obey God. They can witness to people and spread the gospel, they can read the Bible to better know God, and by doing all of these things grow even more in all of these areas. Rinse. Repeat. The Bible doesn't give us a list of works that we need to do in order to keep or increase our salvation and I do not believe the church has the ability to do that either.
@@missinglink_eth "People can't be perfect, but they can turn from their sin and obey God." that's a contradiction if you imperfectly obey God when he asks you to not murder or sleep with your neighbor's wife that is the definition of sin / of not obeying God
@@captainwasabi13 do you sincerely think that’s what I was implying? If so I’ll try to clarify but it seems you just want to pick fights in a comments section.
I'm not sure what constitutes "picking a fight" in your world, but this is the internet so for me, unless someone starts attacking me as a person, then I'll play ball. whereas pointing out contradictions in my arguments and using examples to do so is fair game please, by all means, clarify what imperfect obedience looks like in the Christian life verses imperfect obedience that shows there is no faith in them where is the line? is there a line? can someone with the Holy Spirit commit sin? any sin? just some sins? ---- on a side, I feel like we are covering what the video already covered namely: protestants struggle with explaining the boundaries of this faith that produces good works vis-a-vis
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:14 🕊️ The speaker introduces the topic of "justification by faith alone" (Sola Fide) and highlights a significant question challenging its validity. 01:51 🤔 Differentiates between forms of Sola Fide, including the extreme stance of Free Grace theology, asserting that good works play no role in salvation. 04:25 🌱 Argues that while works don't justify, they are proof of true faith according to Protestant perspectives. 05:21 🤨 Poses a crucial question to defenders of Sola Fide, seeking specific details on the good works that accompany true faith. 08:31 🔄 Highlights Catholic belief that salvation is not based on a specific amount of good works but on being in a state of grace. 11:02 🤷♂️ Questions the Protestant dilemma of proving one's Christianity through visible evidence and draws parallels to the Catholic perspective. 13:36 😕 Criticizes the Protestant reliance on subjective feelings and experiences as indicators of true faith, leading to uncertainty. 15:57 🔄 Advocates for the simplicity of the Catholic explanation, emphasizing the role of grace, sacraments, and reconciliation in the Christian life. 17:34 🤔 Expresses a preference for the simplicity of Catholic doctrine over the perceived complexity of Protestant explanations on faith and works.
It is in black and white. Ephesians 2:8-9. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." If you are truly saved, yes, you will WANT to do good works. If you don't, you are not truly saved. But the works don't cause the faith. (Some of the clips that you shared said this as well.)
Trent: [according to protestantism] "A Saved person does not have to choose to do good works in order to remain saved, because that would make his salvation depend on making the right choices in life instead of it being dependant upon faith alone" This is a misunderstanding. It's like saying that something that has color doesn't HAVE to have shape, since that would mean that the color was dependent on the shape. No, having color logically entails the presence of a shape, and that's perfectly coherent even though the color isn't what determines the shape. Similarly, being regenerated logically entails the presence of good works even though the regeneration is not determined/caused by the good works. "exactly how much good works" This question just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the protestant position. It isn't about the amount of good works, it's about whether or not a person has truly repented of their sin and submitted to the Lordship of Christ. If they have done so, then they are saved. And obviously, a person who has truly submitted to Christ will strive to obey him. Objecting that "protestants can't tell me exactly how much sinning you can do" misses the whole point. To specify some minimum amount means that a person could reasonably say, "oh I can get away with X amount of sin, so that's no big deal," but I would argue that such a person has fundamentally misunderstood the call to holiness and probably doesn't have Christ at all. Where sin is relevant to one's salvation is only how it reflects on one's submission to Christ. So, for example, a person who is submitted to Christ can still fall into sexual temptation and commit adultery, simply because of the weakness of their flesh. Of course, if he is submitted to Christ, he will repent and strive to overcome this sin. But a man who is submitted to Christ could not make the conscious decision to live with a woman while unmarried since that involves a conscious, ongoing decision to reject God's will for his life. It isn't the amount of sin that makes the difference, it's the condition of that person's heart. The elephant in the room here is that, if you don't make Christ's Lordship the center, and you instead emphasize the sacraments, then Catholics could easily engage in whatever horrific debauchery they want and then flippantly go to confession since they can take penance and get a "purely objective sign" that they are saved. Now I have a sense that Trent would object to this, and perhaps say that a person who truly has faith would not so abuse the sacraments, and that sacraments taken without such faith are invalid. And I would agree, but that places Trent and crew exactly where the protestants are: measuring their salvation by whether or not they are sincerely placing their faith in Christ.
He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Matthew 25:33-46
1. Trent's point is that a truly saved doesn't have to choose good works, they just will perform good works. Using your analogy, all objects with color have shape, but you can tell whether something is an object with color based on whether it has a shape or not. A persons salvation isn't dependent on works, but you can determine whether they have it based on whether they have works or not. 2. Yes, whether you repent of your sins or not is what matters. But there are sins you wouldn't necessarily have to repent of and strive to remove from your life. If you always overeat some on Thanksgiving and don't feel sorry for it, for example. You're salvation is probably fine if that's the only sin you commit. 3) Yes. Even the sacraments depend on your interior state. If you don't have any intention of sinning no more or you aren't repentant, than the confession is invalid, yes. That doesn't really challenge our belief, we would just call it a lack of repentance/intention of sinning no more. 4. I think the difference between Sola Fide and what believe is that under Sola Fide, after you accept the Faith, you would always repent and strive to avoid sin in the future whenever you fall into sin. And if you don't (for example, the man who lives with a woman who isn't your wife), then that proves you never truly had faith in the first place (and you should commit yourself to Christ for real). Under that view, if the unmarried man living with a woman ever sees the errors of his ways and repents, it must be his first time being a true Christian. Under the Catholic view, you could truly have faith, fall away using your own free will (same example, say by cohabitating), and then repent of that sin. 5. Now one reason for our view is this: say you're a guy who converts to Christianity and then starts cohabitating with a woman who's not your wife a year later. If you repent of that sin, under Sola Fide, that must mean had you died before you repented but after you "converted" to Christianity, then you wouldn't be saved. But under our view, you could freely choose God's grace, then choose to reject the faith, and then repent and accept the Faith again. Say you're baptized as a Catholic and can't imagine yourself cohabitating with someone. However, a year later you could fall away from the faith and do just that. That doesn't mean you weren't sincere during your baptism, but it does mean you need to repent.
@@chesterbless9441 I agree with much of what you wrote here, except qualify that Sola Fide and perseverance of the saints are different doctrines. There are many who believe in the former (wesleyan's, lutherans, many anglicans) but not the latter.
I've done a few on Islam on the past, and I did a recent one about the Muslim discussion on the PBD podcast, but more on the subject would be interesting!
@TheCounselofTrent Would you be willing to do some Jewish objections as well? I think that Jewish objections and arguments, especially regarding interpretation of Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 are major ones that Christians don’t know how to respond to.
A good way to look at it is. If a nonbeliever lived his life, his entire life in sin, without repentance, but on his death bed truly, and with a penitential heart, cried out for forgiveness and faith in Jesus Christ, he would be saved. So yes, that is not ideal but the saving grace of Christ is enough even for the sinful as long as they come to put their faith in Christ. No matter how long it took them to come to that acceptance of Christ.
Time-stamp 6:22, 6:30 - Ironically, this is a point made by those in the “hyper-grace” movement - the crowd that rejects “Lordship salvation”. 10:00, 10:30 - An apple tree produces apples… 12:50, 13:10 - Getting into the details 13:50, 14:54 - Trent’s take
No...the guilt is knowing you have received salvation without any deeds on your part. That it is a gift that is undeserving and can never be paid back. The most beautiful part is that it doesn't have to paid back.
I'm a proestiant and I usually take the "fruit of good works" as a proverb., Its a good way to guess if other people genuinely beleive, but at the end of the day, only God knows.
@@Justas399 Christ be with you Its just a guess but I think he meant Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. To love all people with the same Love the Father has Loved us. Come to Christ and Live
@@MrKev1664 here is what the word “perfect” means in Greek New Testament: “the meaning of the word includes the ideas of "full-growth, maturity, workability, soundness, and completeness." In the pagan Greek mystery religions, the word referred to those devotees who were fully instructed as opposed to those who were novices. brought to its end, finished, wanting nothing necessary to completeness; when used of men it means full-grown, adult, of full age, mature.”
@@Justas399 Christ be with you you will need to explain more about how that changes anything. Jesus is reference out love for others and how we have to be complete, at full growth, perfect which every you like but the example of this he gives is the Father. when our love is like his we will be complete our Growth. He has not shown some arbitrary standard but perfection. Come to Christ and Live
Im a prostentant and i love watching Trenth Horn and i've learned a lot from him.. Honestly, Trent Horn has always a good and reasonable idea. So why i am still a protestant?
Guess you haven’t caught the curiosity bug to explore the Catholic faith further yet? For some it’s a very gradual process that takes years, for others it’s a sudden firecracker where they can hardly sit still through RCIA classes. Guess maybe take some time and figure out what you like/dislike, agree/disagree with the Catholic Church on and go from there? One suggestion is read through the Catechism of the Catholic as that’s an overall source of the basic tenants and ideas of Catholicism. Father Mike Schmitz actually has Catechism in a Year podcast going on right now, the same guy who did Bible in a Year. The episodes are about 15 to 20 minutes each and he goes through the text and provides thoughts and clarifications on some things. May also be a good resource to help ya figure out what being a Catholic is about and how one should be in their life.
I’m a Protestant, but I love your channel Trent. You speak so well and kindly. My thoughts on faith alone are as follows: Works are not “evidence” of faith. Salvation isn’t dependent on doing good. None of us can be saved by our works as we all sin. Our salvation is from Jesus and our faith in Him. Now, the Bible says “ faith without works is dead”; I believe this means a person who believes God exists but doesn’t want to do good like doesn’t have a strong faith. True faith in Jesus and understanding of what he did for us is motivation to do good. Now, we all still sin. Sometimes because we get angry and passionate- like fighting with family members, sometimes because it can be really hard to escape the addiction- such as drugs or porn, or because we don’t realise that the Bible condemns our actions. However, I believe it is down to the motive. If we do these things remorselessly and with pride, our faith is dead. However, if we are simply struggling but are repentant, then we have faith. Do you understand what I’m saying? Let me know how this compares to a Catholic perspective.
Why such bigotry? And why is knowing Latin special? I guess it makes sense when your father is from Rome. Protestants' father is from Heaven. I guess it's true, we aren't obsessed with classical Italy like you lot. Rome this, Pope that... Why is it that the majority of the time you guys bring up God it seems to be to support something earthly? Love God, love others. That's what it's all about.
Calvin’s view and the Puritan view espoused by John Owen is closer to the Catholic teaching than the heretical Baptist view to sure. However, it is still wrong. If the faith that “saves” is NOT alone, then how can it be “faith alone” that saves? This is a simple semantic “dodge” with no foundation in Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition. Keep up the good work, Trent! 😊😊😊😊
I'm looking forward to some responses from Catholics about the pope declaring that transgenders can be baptized and be godparents now. Catholics seem to be ignoring it though. All the new is ablaze about it. The world knows the Catholic church is getting all inclusive w/ Francis at the helm. Since Catholics believe the pope stands in to represent Christ on earth, it's like saying Jesus is all for this. Pretty sure Jesus is not.
Protestants: Everyone who has true faith will, ceteris paribus, have good works. Then, ceteris paribus, good works are a necessary condition for salvation, even if they are not the cause of salvation. Simple like that.
Faith produces the fruits of the Spirit. Jesus is the only path to salvation. There is nothing we do for our salvation but to put our hope in him. Jesus testifies that we will know one by their fruits. Galatians 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
why didn't you answer the question? What If I have all those things, but live in a homosexual union? What you listed are properties, not actions. "Joy".Joy is in no way shape or form a work a christian does.
Paul never says our faith produces the fruits of the Spirit. He is listing the fruits in this verse one of which is faithfulness. Basically you just claimed that your continued faith is produced by your faith. Keep reading to verse 25. Paul says.....25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also be guided by the Spirit. Paul is teaching here that if we live by the Spirit (by producing the fruits he just listed) then these actions will point us in the right direction so we can be guided by the Spirit. The entire Chapter of Galatians 5 is Paul teaching how our bad works lead us away from the Spirit of Christ. That is why he teaches...19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these. I am warning you, as I warned you before: those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. The whole point of the chapter is our good works are necessary for salvation for without them we will not be guided by the Spirit. God Bless
I converted from Catholicism to a Baptist faith 2 years ago after beginning to study the Bible deeply. I felt that there are teachings in the bible not observed by Mother Church. As I studied more, It seems that the book in Galatians is overly apparent in the doctrine of Faith "Alone." Though the word "alone" never appears, I believe it is implied, HEAVILY. We know from Pauls teachings, particularly Galatians 2:16 (16 yet we know that a person is not justified 1 by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.) that FAITH is what justifies us. This was a particularly big hurdle for me as a former Catholic. It just seemed to easy. In retrospect, most protestants would disagree with "punch ticket salvation." I believe this is where the debate really begins. Now, Works of the law and Good Works are two different things. I think Good Works are the fruit of righteousness that are produced once we are filled with the Holy Spirit. James 2: 18 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. The following verses made me think deeply when having to choose between the traditions of Mother Church, and following the Bible: Mark 7 7:9 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. I enjoy watching your channel, Im not an apologist, and I dont think we were ever left any "How to Guide" that specifically breaks down Barney style what number of works get us where, but they most certainly attribute to our reward in heaven. I may not perform enough good works to have some really great position once Im there, but Id happy to just be on the winning team :) Matthew 6: 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
I am the son and grandson of Baptist pastors. After becoming a Christian (long before I became Catholic), I left the Baptist church because it's governing structure of autonomous church bodies is nowhere supported in the Bible.
Hello Roman catholic friends. The big question that starts around 7:00 marker, I would answer, as a Protestant (reformed Presbyterian), that the book of 1 John in its 1-5 chapters speak of the person who is “of God” which is how John puts it in the chapters. I’m open to discussion if anybody wants to have a discourse.
This is a thought I had on this from a Protestant perspective (I’m on my way starting RCIA in two weeks), if “faith alone” without works, then the modern church fits the bill by not having works for failing evangelism and discipleship, charity, and communion. I mean from my experience and seeing it that the works aren’t there, just sharing the gospel only talking about Jesus and nothing else. The jersey is on but the training is not. Now I say this only still learning this topic and trying to learn and wrap my head around it all.
Please don't distort Christian doctrine. There is not a number of works one must do to prove faith. Your faith is evidenced by repentance and a new desire to do what pleases God. We strive not to sin once we are born again but since we are still flesh we may stumble every now and again.
I want to first say that I’m a flawed mortal man, but I recognize Christ as my savior. My reasoning is flawed and I come to the comment section to admit that. I am a Protestant who’s always been interested in deep thinking and understanding theology as well as apologetics. I currently believe that when someone commits themselves to Christ and accepts him into their life, they are saved. However I agree with Catholics that someone can be separated from God, but only of their own will. I don’t believe sin alone can separate, however it can lead someone to separation. I am grateful for Trent and I love his channel and all of my catholic brothers and sisters. Please keep me in your prayers that I, and all of us may be truthful in our theology. With that being said, I do want to mention that I think the simple analogy of marriage mostly explains what I believe. When you marry someone, you are giving your life over to be in a union with them, and you make a vow to love them until the day you die. In the same way, a saved person is in union with Christ. Marriage has its ups and downs, but through all that you commit yourself to them. You don’t sever your connection to them unless you get a divorce. If one cheats on their partner this represents a cardinal sin in my example), it doesn’t automatically separate the marriage. It harms the relationship, but it doesn’t sever it. It can lead to divorce, but you aren’t separated on those grounds alone. It is a decision of the couple that they want to separate. In the same way, I don’t believe a cardinal sin separates you from Christ, however it harms your relationship with God. In other ways, a married couple can be on different levels. One could be more committed to their wife and always buy her flowers, whereas someone else could be lazier or less caring. This doesn’t mean they aren’t married, but it does mean that one person has a better relationship. Thank you for reading my thoughts. I come in humbleness and am truly seeking answers. If I am wrong, I hope to change my ways.
The problem with any attempt to prove someone IS or IS NOT a Christian via actions is that anyone could be lying. It is the heart that matters, and NO sin can separate us from the love of God, not even mortal sin that is regretted and repented from. Venial sin is just the cost of being human, but must also be repented from. Desired to change. Attempted to change.
The scripture is clear: What bought your salvation, is Christ’s blood alone. Now the apostle Paul says that we should have works that are worthy of the price Christ paid, but those are not quantifiable in such a way as to deny heaven because of them for the lack there of. For justification comes by grace through faith in Christ alone.
Trent you complicate the simple gospel of salvation, and destroy the gift what Jesus did on the cross for our sins. Romans 3:25 King James Version 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
You make some very valid points here. I grew up under protestant doctrine and have rejected many of the doctrines that I do not think are biblical. I consider myself a disciple of Christ, but take no religious titles of man (titles being based on the cult of personality, I believe in violation of the principle discussed starting in 1 Corinthians 3:4) . I was literally thinking about this topic when your video popped up in my feed. Many reformed people shout constantly about "grace alone through faith alone" but when someone who was baptized in their tradition displays really bad behavior in the future (and are deliberately unrepentant) many then say "well, that's evidence it wasn't a true conversion" . They have created and entirely subjective measuring stick where they get to play God (even if it's only in their own mind) . You accurately highlighted that the good works standard is most often left open to personal interpretation (which is a big problem) while some other reformed people hide behind saying "it's impossible to tell if someone is part of God's elect" which is a convenient scape goat to completely avoid the topic altogether. And the people who confuse the most are the hyper free will teachers (like some entire sanctification methodists, some baptists, Pentecostals, etc) . You are correct, many protestants are genuinely confused about the state of their salvation at least once in their lifetime (I was when I was a teenager, under Arminian doctrine) while others have a false sense of hope because of hyper grace, easy believeism and once saved always saved doctrines taught by people like Charles Stanley (claiming that even atheists go to heaven if they previously professed Christ earlier in life) . I personally believe that after being truly saved it's possible to forfeit the gift of eternal life by returning to willful rebellion. Years ago I tried to explain this idea by saying that God is more concerned about the speed of our repentance, rather than the magnitude of our sin (isolating ourselves from God always leads to bad outcomes) . David sinned greatly, but his repentance was genuine, so God did not cast him out so to speak. When his day of reckoning came through the prophet Nathan, he admitted his sin and turned from it. But if someone is living in habitual, unrepentant sin (like living with someone they're not married to) then I think you can call that person a hypocrite without the fear of slandering them, because by definition they are not a Christ follower, regardless of what they claim. I think this is why Paul made it clear that those who live immoral lifestyles should be kicked out of the assembly, and not fellowshipped with. Gross immorality cannot be normalized and give people false hope. You ostracize them because you love them, and pray they return to their senses. In an attempt to be transparent, I respectfully don't believe that you are a Christian, as I view a large portion of core Catholic doctrines to be incompatible with biblical Christianity. However, that doesn't mean I hate or dislike you. I think the bible clearly teaches we should love our enemies. I enjoy honest dialogue, and on this topic (though I would disagree with your answer) you truly did identify a significant issue with protestant doctrine, and I will give praise where praise is due.
And to add briefly. I think why many protestants are confusing on this is because many of them teach that all sins are equal. They are equal in a sense that if you are not regenerated it doesn't matter if you are murderer or a simple thief. In that context, all sinners must pay their debt eternally, it doesn't matter who is worse. But if you claim to be a Christian, then kill a bunch of people in cold blood, something is horrifically off. It's not "oopisie, I sinned, sorry about that" . I'm not saying that murderers can't be forgiven. I just think protestants avoid the details like a plague and in stead just start yelling "faith alone! We're all depraved sinners saved by grace!" as soon as someone starts trying to explain that all sins are not equal and expose the condition of the heart. Interesting thought, I think some people interpret good works as the absence of bad works. But in the bible, can there truly be a good work outside of loving the Lord your God with all your mind, soul and strength? If you give all your money away, save people from slavery, never cheat on your wife and devote your life to ministry, you can still go to hell. I find that most organized religion doesn't deal with the heart issue. I believe someone can go to a Catholic preist for confession, and walk away just as guilty, because that person maybe doing that rote act thinking it justifies them, when they are not truly sorry for what they have done.
A Catholic Christian doesn't care about mockery, attacks and insults. he remains focus on the Word made flesh. He knows the person of Jesus Christ very well. He does not doubt or confused because he knows the Gospel and the teachings of the Church well. He knows how to detect the Word in the midst of words. He is focus on Faith, Hope and Charity and on the Holy Cross.
"This channel cannot grow by faith alone!" 🤣🤣🤣 I never thought Trent was this funny.
his wife probably wrote that joke lmao
This is exceedingly true. As someone who had severe OCD and scrupulosity, the idea of "enough good fruits" tormented me for so long. I thought the idea of salvation being a process and something that could be lost would make my OCD worse, but it was the opposite. Since accepting more historical Christian beliefs (and biblical!) My obsessive worry has been replaced with a stronger confidence in Christ
to me its nice to have a Priest absolve me. Its the Priest who is giving me assurance of forgiveness. If he gets it wrong somehow the Priest would be the one culpable at that point to God not me. As far as I am concerned I am forgiven. The only thing I dont get is it in writing.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Me as well. As a Protestant I was really tormented. My husband and I reverted to the Catholic Church this past Easter and the peace I have is amazing. God bless you 🙏
Exact same for me!
Sooo… you’ve turned to the RCC who by the way teaches that no one can be sure of where they are going when they die, which they refer to as the sin of presumption. You need to realized something: Christ has already freed you from sin, that is from the penalty of sin. If you’ve trusted in Christ as your savior, you’re going to heaven no matter what. Once we realize that we can begin to grow in holiness and live in that reality that we are already fully accepted and forgiven. If you think the Catholic Church will give you assurance of salvation via external means like the sacraments you’re mistaken. It will give you assurance alright, but a false assurance: one based on going through the motions of going to church, partaking in the sacraments, going to confession. It’s good to put your assurance in something outside yourself, but the sacraments are not it. The thing we should put our trust in, is in Christ own words. So many Christians out there don’t believe Christ when he said whoever believes in me HATH (present tense) everlasting life. They think that’s just too easy there must be something more. They will tell you to trust in anything BUT Christ and his promise of eternal life to those who simply believe. If they really truly believed what Christ said they would not be Catholic or Protestant. They would be Christian. And they would understand the Christian life is about maintaining fellowship with God, not about trying to hold on to salvation or prove you’ve got it. And that there’s a fundamental difference between the two. If you happen to come across this reply, I encourage you to check out the Free Grace position, and pastors like Yankee Arnold, Tom Cacuzza, J Vernon McGee, Charles Lawson.
Former evangelical youth pastor here... just came into the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church this year on Pentecost Sunday 🙌 Thanks Trent and team for content like this. Your resources were (and still are) a huge part of my conversion.
I witnessed this Protestant version of "scrupulosity" a LOT with parishioners and students. There were plenty of folks who got "re-saved" at camps and retreats. And because baptism is typically viewed as only symbolic, there were even folks being "re-baptized."
I started to realize that we were longing for the Sacrament of Reconciliation because, through it, Christ provides an objective way of knowing that you are forgiven and restored to right relationship with Him and the family of God.
Welcome! What made you believe in the true presence of Christ body, blood, soul, and divinity in Holy Communion?
Welcome home.
@@bullyboy131 Jesus (John 6:48-68), St. Paul (1 Corinthians 11:23-30), the disciple of John- St. Ignatius of Antioch (especially chapter 7 of his letter to the *Smyrnaeans), and the consistent teaching and witness of the Church that Jesus established for the first 1500 years of Christianity. It blew my mind to learn that a purely symbolic/memorialist view of Communion wasn't widely accepted until Ulrich Zwingli introduced the idea in the mid 1500s.
@@RangerGrant Thank you! I know the scripture verses. I did not know who started the symbolic idea. I know Protestants are aware of the Bible verses too, but for many it just doesn't click.
Amen ! God bles.
I’ve been watching Trent Horn, Brand Pitre, Steve Ray, Fr. Chris Alar, and Bishop Barron videos lately and my Catholic faith is getting stronger and stronger. Thanks for all your hard work! Please pray for the growth of Catholic faith in my country Indonesia 🇮🇩🙏🏽
Padre Pio pray for us! Mamma Theotokos pray for us!
You should add Scholastic Answers to the list
Awesome list!
Brant Pitre is one of my favourites
Brant Pitre is awesome.
Be careful any of those your named are heretics and preach another gospel.
The apostle Paul warned us about this and his epistles.
Mr. Baron has quoted second Vatican council which stipulates that even atheist can go to heaven as long as they do good things in this world.
This is heresy, and your eternal salvation is at stake
I am currently a Protestant, raised in a non denominational church, and if I’m completely honest, I have been obsessively worrying about my own salvation for a long time, exactly as Trent says here. I stumbled upon pornography at 12 and have been essentially addicted for over a decade, and the Protestant line that truly saving faith leads to works has made me doubt the nature of my own faith constantly ever since. It always seemed to me that I was being asked to assume that the Lord would one day free me from my sin, rather than have faith that he already has.
Between Trent and Matt Fradd constantly releasing videos like this one that seem to address my every concern in logical, loving ways, I’m starting to wonder if the Lord is trying to tell me something.
Edit since people are still commenting here: currently enrolled in OCIA with my wife, slated for baptism and confirmation Easter of next year
Been there man, and I'm still on my journey to the Catholic Church, but I will say that, to me, it's been the most comforting realization that Jesus Christ established a Church that would stand until the end and here it is, still here and I can find it and be comforted by it. Keep searching, my friend!
But that’s the thing with Faith Alone. Your continual will to love and honor God is all the proof you need. Salvation is yours now, total redemption comes later! Love you friend, praying for freedom from this affliction (I’ve been there too!)!
Brother, I'll take some time to pray for you after I hit reply. I'm glad you're already aware of Matt Fradd and I'll mention Jason Evert as someone that Fradd has worked with and recommends for great resources to strengthen and grow in chastity.
In our dialogs between Catholics and Protestants, there's always the danger of becoming caught up in our side 'winning', but I really do believe the only reason to come to one side over the other is because it is true and so my conviction is that the fullness of truth and the many gifts that God has given us are found in the Catholic Church. They can give you the fullness of peace, joy, and freedom in Christ available to you. Maybe you're starting to see some of that. God bless you in your journey.
often times the simplest decisions are the hardest to make. if you feel a tug towards catholicism then you should take that seriously. also, if you want to stop the prn then do what i did and set up some sort of devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mother Mary; she'll take care of you i promise.
Convert! Disciple of Apostle John St. Ignatius of Antioch(50-108 AD)- “Wherever the Bishop appears, there, let the people be, as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” 2 Thessalonians 2:15 tells us to follow oral tradition so not everything we follow has to be in scripture. Hebrews 13:17 says obey and submit to church leaders. 1 Timothy 3:15 says the church is the pillar of truth. The Bible doesn’t affirm sola scriptura. If the church is the pillar of truth it’s infallible not only scripture. The church is the one that gave us the Bible. Jesus left a church. One example of the church infallibility is the fact you believe the cannon off of the Bible is true. You believe the church without error picked the correct number of books to be in the cannon if you say that’s not infallible then you open the possibility that the cannon isn’t correct. There are other sources of truth and people we should follow. Acts 17:11 does prove sola scriptura because if the Thessalonians believed in only scripture they wouldn’t have became Christians because no verse in the Old Testament said the messiah would rise after 3 days. As Catholics we examine scripture too but we don’t believe it’s the only sole authority. Jesus affirmed traditions. Matthew 23:2-The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. The seat of Moses is an oral tradition Jesus affirms because there is no verse in the Old Testament saying people sit in the chair of Moses. Without the Catholic Church Protestants wouldn’t even have a 27 New Testament bible cannon that was chosen in the 4th century at the council of hippo. The oldest bible we have is Codex Sinaiticus which has the apocryphal books in them until Protestants removed them. As long as you accept the 27 New Testament cannon you accept church authority. It was the churches authority that decided which books are the word of God. If the Catholic Church is so wrong why do Protestants believe them why they say these books are the word of God why trust them they are many other letters Paul and other apostles wrote that are in the Bible how do you know they don’t belong there.Y’all still listen to the churches authority even though you try to reject the church.
This is exactly why my husband converted to Catholicism. He grew up a baptist PK and prayed “the prayer” when he was 7. But he often feared as a child and young man that his prayer wasn’t valid, so he prayed the prayer in panic often. The Church’s teachings helped make sense of salvation.
I had something similar when I was still a Protestant. What if my faith wasn't genuine? How could I still sin so badly of I was supposed to be saved?
The Church's teaching, even if it takes away absolute certainty, and I think rightly so, makes so much more sense of salvation and Christian life into an adventure.
@@FreeGraceBibleBelieveruh, please notice James that he was in err when pointed out the salvific significance of works
@@FreeGraceBibleBeliever Not just believing. In order to truly believe, for your belief to not be dead as St James puts it, you must also follow what that belief entails. As a soldier, do you have faith in your commander if you do not follow his orders?
@@FreeGraceBibleBelieverSimply believe? That's *not* what the scriptures say - for even the devils believe and they tremble. Come out of the man made cult and come into the true church Jesus founded with his unadulterated word. Belief is not enough!
@@FreeGraceBibleBeliever
Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth-1Tim 3:15 She’s the only Church and Doctrine established by our God and Savior Jesus Christ. He appointed His apostles leaders, Peter as Head, gave THEM His authority, power, Sacraments and Teaching (The Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven). He wants everyone to be His Church, remaining in His Doctrine, receiving His Sacraments and Teaching or we do not have God. 2 Jn1:9, Heb13:9, Gal 1:6-9, Eph 4:4-6, Jn10:16, 17:20-26, Jn 3:5, 6:51-59, 1 Cor 11:23-29, 2 Cor 5:18-20, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 18:17-18, 16:18-19, 10:1-4, Mk 3:14-19, Eph 2:19-22, 1 Cor 11:28, Acts 20:28, 1 Pet 2:6-9
Jesus Christ rebuked the pharisees for making their own version of His True Church, just like ALL 44,000 other Christian Churches have done. Mt 23:1-39, Lk 11:37-54
I'm a simple man. I see a Counsel of Trent video and I watch it. Always great content!! I've learned a ton. And, you and a number of others have been a big part of my decision to join the Catholic church. Currently in O.C.I.A. and looking forward to full communion.
I have recently been getting back into my Catholic faith, going to mass early so that I can join in praying the rosary and staying after for adoration. Also been singing a lot more in mass too. Every time I feel so refreshed and I love it! Now I can see why people love the Catholic Church! I love being Catholic! God knows what’s best for us, that’s why He gave us the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Praise Jesus!
Try Traditional Latin Mass
Thanks Trent, as a Catholic theres nothing better then a good Confession. I struggle with the 'preparation' for Confession and often wonder am I thinking of everything , but after Confession I feel so happy I went and feel 'renewed' to do better in future.
When i converted to Catholicism i had so many well meaning protestants concerned about my salvation now... i said "if you believe in faith alone than why are you worried about my salvation now that i am catholic? I have faith in Jesus..." i find it confusing when protestants think Catholics arent Christian...
Because you as a Catholic reject the Gospel, which is that salvation is by faith alone apart from works.
@vladtheinhaler8940 HAHA, we became Catholic by reading the Gospels
By casting aside what had been told to us by pastors and looking at what Jesus REALLY said. We found Catholicism fit perfectly and we were appalled. So we then tried to disprove Catholicism and couldn't. I know the gospel and I hope someday you stop worshipping a book and follow the Church Jesus started.
@@vladtheinhaler8940Wow you prots are clueless.. im not even catholic. Just wow
@@vladtheinhaler8940Protestants like you have a big problem understanding the difference between "the teachings of Scripture" and just your own interpretation of what Scripture teachea. I don't see a reason to believe your understanding of the gospel is the right one. That might be what your pastor Bob taught you, but I don't see a reason for it. The Catholics have a different understanding of scripture than you do, and I don't see why I should believe your interpretation over theirs.
@bad_covfefe my Baptist pastor, was Pastor Bob. That's hilarious!
So disappointed in the people of Ohio today. Disgusting result and so depressing.
Deeply sad. Pray for Ohio
And it's supposed to be a "conservative" state. Any political platform that doesn't have Christ at heart will eventually fall, because they do not the Eternal Word which proclaims and is all truth.
Years of leftist indoctrination of young people has done its work quite well. He who controls education controls the minds.
what happened in Ohio?
@@_kidtripp7772 The Republican party is far less classically conservative than many would like to believe.
7:15 "Maybe when you gave your life to Christ at Vacation Bible School in the fourth grade, you weren't serious enough to make that decision, and so your salvation didn't really stick."
I think you just put like 94% of the people in my area into an existential crisis.
4th grade is pretty old compared to some of the stories I’ve heard
mine too...North Caccalack...they are still waiting for the Rapture when the Tribulation has already started..
@@Forester- Yeah, I've definitely heard 6 before.
@SheepOfChrist818 Ooooh, that's an even bigger existential crisis.
@@gunsgalore7571 I apparently "prayed the prayer" when I was 6.
Trent nailed it! I'm glad I'm a catholic now.
@SheepOfChrist818 Come again?
@SheepOfChrist818 There are some very important works that we should trust in. I trust in the work that God has done to bring us to redemption, for example. I trust in believing in the one God has sent, which Jesus says is the work that God wants from us in John 6:29. Ephesians 2 teaches that we are God's workmanship, made for good works; I trust in God's workmanship, so I trust in His work in that respect as well; if I am able to do any works that are good and pleasing before God it is only because of God working in me - that is certainly work I can trust!
@SheepOfChrist818and the Goats are placed where and why?
@SheepOfChrist818stop lying about Catholics. Works apart from grace are powerless to save, and it's the Catholic Church that identifies that nonsense as a heresy (Pelagianism, actually).
@@christopherfleming7505 he probably meant Greatest Of All Time as befits a true follower of Christ
If I have the faith to move mountains but have not love, I am nothing at all.
I agree with everything that Trent said, and I would like to add that sometimes doing good works even when we’re not in the mood to do them can be good for us and help us grow spiritually. I like that every Sunday is a Holy Day of obligation because on the days I just want to stay in my PJs and skip Mass, I still go, and I am always glad I went. Also, caring for others even when we don’t feel like it helps us to grow, learn, and become more mature.
This question has actually been on my mind a lot lately even in discussions with other Protestants.
My absolute shortest answer possible is: whatever works God chooses to do through you.
I'm frankly so tired of *both* sides focusing so hard on how any individual can know they are saved, whether by producing enough "evidence" or having a "genuine" enough faith. The Bible's way of putting it is just, "God saved you." And how do I know that? "He sent his Son to die for you." You're never expected to worry about the question, "But how do I know his atonement is applied specifically to me personally?" Just believe it and get to work in your new Christian life. Baptism and the Eucharist are ways he has told you your sins are forgiven and you are his child. They're something he does for you, not something you did in obedience to earn anything.
Groups that have focused too hard on evidence and works have ended up making up fake works that are supposed to please God alone to the neglect and even isolation from all other humans. Women wearing skirts and not cutting their hair, not watching TV or playing sports or going to theaters or drinking alcohol, paying money to the church organization, door knocking to get people to come to church, etc.
The kinds of works the Bible actually talks about are aimed horizonatally, not vertically. You don't need to do anything for God because he already did everything for you. Now go love your neighbor and actually help them, don't just "pray" for them.
Catholics don't have this dilemma, for us if you're baptized you are saved, unless you commit a mortal sin, and if you do, you can go to confession and know for certain that you're forgiven.
@@rosjierhall1997 The Medieval Roman Magisterium would prove otherwise. I'd actually argue the East is more immune to this problem, except they seem to keep getting sucked in to the discussion and feeling the need to denounce Protestantism despite nearly agreeing with us.
Thanks for this Kevin, this should be a top comment. Ever since I left Catholicism for a non denominational church, I haven't had any worries about 'am I really saved'. I suspect that people who do have those anxieties may be happier in a ritualistic context like Catholicism, where they just have to follow the correct steps to 'know' they're going to heaven. But just because it's comforting doesn't make it correct.
What did the medieval magisterium teach and how is the east more immune?
Okay, you can be tired of the issue, fair enough; but that doesn't make it go away, nor does it mean it isn't important. "Just believe it and get to work", may work as a strategy to avoid engaging with the question; but it doesn't work as an answer to the question.
Effectively, your strategy here is to attack the question. But as I say, that doesn't make it go away. The question is a completely legitimate one, which emerges from the very nature of the claims Protestants make. If you believe you are saved by faith in Christ, and that good works are evidence of salvation, the question naturally arises: what constitutes good works? Are my works good enough?
Now yes, of course, for peace of mind, or for practical reasons, you might decide to ignore that question and get on with your Christian life. I think that's a good practical strategy. But it's not an answer to the question. And it doesn't mean it's a bad question.
I’m Protestant, I’ve struggled with assurance of salvation, the turning point was very simple, since in me there is no good, if I see in me any measure of good( love for God, and good works proceeding by faith) I know I am saved
How can you say "In me there is no good" if the first chapter of the Bible says you were created in the image and likeness of God and as "very good"? How can you say that if God sees such value in you, that he chose to pay the price of his own blood for you?
Secondly, if "any measure of good" is a sign of being saved, then everyone who ever existed is saved, as you can easily observe those signs in everyone. But that assumption leads to denouncing the importance of actually being a Christian.
What about the guy in 1 Corinthians 5?
@@_aelvirAdam and Eve may have been called very good before the fall, but that doesn’t mean we’re good. Jesus said only the father is good. None of us are good. And if you see good outside of the work of God, then you have the wrong interpretation of good. Respectfully of course. Love the sincere dialogue.
@@thetimeninja2178 I agree with this, but I never said that we are fully good. I only stated that some amount of that goodness remains in all of us. God is the source of all goodness, so just the fact that we are alive by His grace is the proof of God's goodness dwelling in us. There are also many different ways we can observe God's goodness in everyone, even pagans and grave sinners (I can elaborate if you want :D). And if that's the case, we are back to the second point of my original comment.
And about the guy in 1 Corinthians 5.
It doesn't say that there is no goodness in him, just that his sin was grave enough for excommunication, which doesn't mean he can't be ultimately saved (as the 5th verse suggests).
I hope I'm writing clearly :P
@@_aelvir Sin was not in equation there first
I'm a protestant, but I always love watching Trent! he has great thoughts, and is very clear and logical.
Come home brother
As someone investigating myself, he and Gavin ortlunds channels have been very informative for me
@@rickydettmer2003what are you investigating?
Check Jordan B. Cooper as well. All three are very informative!
@@jonathanhamilton2504 they have also all three been debunked
God bless you for your good works, Trent. And God bless His Catholic Church.
Hello I’m not a catholic so I was just wondering he said good works strengthen faith. But he just like he said the Protestant did not explain what are good works according to Catholics.
I am protestant, and I think you have a point. There is a problem with our view on this, and we are left with the question you asked. Some protestants have a view that is similar to the catholic view, except that we don’t make reconciliation a sacrament. But I would love to see a dialogue on this.
the joint declaration of catholics and lutherans outline all the areas we agree on. Trent Here is mostly addressing evangelicals.
There is no point. It’s all strawman. “I knew a Protestant that didn’t feel the need to go to church.” Yeah? I knew a catholic that supported gay marriage. This is called strawmanning, “one person did this? They all must be the same.”
This was the sticking question that led me away from Protestantism and into Catholicism.
Likewise mate
Yep me too, that and I found out that we don't actually worship Mary or any other saints. Once I learned I was being lied to by my fellow protestants. I converted to Catholicism on August 6th 2020 7 days after meeting Jesus and Moses face to face. A year later I find out that August 6th is the feast of transfiguration. Of all the days I choose to get baptized and convert to Catholicism. I chose August 6th 2020. 7 days after meeting Jesus and Moses face to face. After the bullet in my picture bounced off of me.
You serious? That’s embarrassing. I can answer each question listed, it’s not difficult. (Edit) let me clarify this. I view other denominations as flawed, but still Christian. If anyone feels comfortable being a Protestant, catholic, orthodox etc, and they are noble serving God, then that’s fine by me.
@@powersresurrected354 really? I have a question that is extremely elusive. Maybe you'll be the one to convert me to your heretical side. You game?
@@darrellperez1029 sure, nothing bothers me more than a Christian who reeks of false righteousness.
I'm a Protestant and I agree that most Protestants have really bad doctrine for determining salvific faith and that many of the provided determining factors by Protestant apologists are ad hoc over-complications. To answer your question first by a clarification of definitions I think in the most faithful Biblical/sola fide way possible without any extra-Biblical "well actually" ad hoc explanation is as follows: I think there is a differentiation between the conception of "true faith" and "living faith", the former (not being a Biblical term) is most often conceptualized as faith that was actually real opposed to a false faith which was never faith in the first place (perhaps a false "mental assent faith"), and the latter (being a Biblical term) referring to that faith which is Spirit living, active, driven by a relationship with the very God who is the very life-giving source of the faith (1 Corinthians 15:45). The latter is in contrast to dead faith rather than a false faith, which was never faith in the first place. So with that out of the way my answer is that the quality/quantity of good works would depend on the extent to which that Christian is living in their faith/to what extent they are partaking of the living/divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and would include common examples of works in the Bible (fruits of the Spirit etc. etc.), *BUT* this does not determine the veracity or truth of their prior/initial faith, it just speaks to what degree they are in their faith in their present living reality. Mixing these up is where we get the bad ad hoc Protestant explanations that draw inaccurate lines around false faith, muddy the waters, actively work against gospel assurance, and ultimately miss the heart of what faith is which I will try to expand on.
To maintain a living/active faith I would agree with Catholics to the extent that one must avoid mortal sins, this is very clear from 1 John 1:6. But being as one who has been called out by God to be a called saint (1 Corinthians 1:2) having experienced initial faith is not called into question by a lack of works or by participation in the most unchristian mortal sins. I cite 1 Corinthians because Paul was very clear that Christ belonged to the Corinthians and that they had come into faith despite their lack of good works and their deadness in their mortal sins. This is because, based on the definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1, faith is the very substantiation of Jesus Christ through the Spirit. When you put together these verses that compliment each other: Romans 10:17+Hebrews 4:12+Acts 15:8-9 you get the full picture that faith is the substantiation of Jesus Christ as the very Logos Who became a life-giving Spirit, and as a result, Paul says that the test of being in the "true faith" is: 2 Corinthians 13:5 - "Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" The true test of faith is ultimately determined by whether you have substantiated Jesus Christ as Spirit. Now before I give further defense of this statement, assuming it is accurate, on the basis of it we can say that sola fide can be accurate, as the living, operating faith is the mode through which the living God who works it out in us if we so permit Him. Like the Apostle Paul says in Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." It is not his faith in fact, it is the "faith of the Son of God" who lives in him and not only him, but Christ imparts faith and life to us all through His resurrection. If we are in the living faith, if Christ lives in us, then Christ's living and good works will be manifest, and in this respect we can affirm the quoted statements of Luther and Calvin in the matter. So then our assurance of salvation comes not from showing a specific amount of good works, but rather it comes from receiving Christ (Romans 8:10, John 1:12) via believing, repenting, confessing. This is true sola fide. This is the end of my main engagement with the topic, but for anyone who is interested in the validity of prior interpretation, here is a study of Hebrews 11:1 and short comments on James 2:17:
With regard to Hebrews 11:1, translations differ greatly on the translation for the Greek “hypostasis” (ὑπόστασις), "confidence" and "assurance" are used by some, which are valid translations but seemingly don't capture the full Greek meaning in this context. The LEB translation uses "realization", but the word primarily means substance, so here I prefer Strong’s (5287.) usage (b) or (c) “a giving substance (or reality) to.” In the context of the verse Hebrews 11:1 ("Now faith is the ὑπόστασις of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.") it denotes the substantiating of the substance (of things hoped for, things not seen), so I think the best translation is "substantiation." John Chrysostom says "The resurrection has not yet taken place, but faith substantiates (ὑφίστησιν) it in our souls." So with this understanding cross referenced with 1 Peter 1:8 (see "faith" and "Jesus Christ" in 1:7) and 1 Peter 1:3 (see "living hope"), we see that faith is the substantiation ("giving substance to") Christ Himself as the life-giving Spirit through His resurrection.
Therefore, what then does James mean when he says faith is dead without works? (James 2:17). It simply means that there is no substantiation of the Holy Spirit without works; the Holy Spirit is not operative in one in whom there is no works. And this is consistent with the sense in which James uses the word "justified" here- to prove faith to your fellow man, not to God, for God already knows the heart of faith and gives the Holy Spirit Himself (Acts 15:8). There is very strong credence here to the interpretation that "justified" ("by works") within the context of James 2 refers to the outward evidence of the inward reality that justifies us before other men rather than the Romans 5:1 faith process that justifies us before God. To become an enlivened believer with works we must be open to be indwelt by and brought on by the Holy Spirit continually, to have it be Christ who lives in us rather than the body of flesh, but to merely initially have "true faith", it only requires that one initially receives Jesus Christ.
Excellent as always! As a protestant who is in the process of converting to Catholicism I think a round table with different protestants would be so important. I don’t think most protestants realize the vast difference in theology within it. I think this is especially important for fundamental and evangelicals. Once I saw how very different views were within it I then started questioning everything which has led me to the Catholic Church. I think most protestants realize that there are differences that’s why we church hop so much but I don’t think they really understand the significant differences in doctrines of faith and honestly church hopping leads to an odd blending of all of these doctrines. Wouldn’t it be great to see a Lutheran, an Anglican, a Baptist , a mega church non denom and a Calvinist sitting together discussing it with you!
Thanks!
Thank you Trent for all your hard work. We truly need more Catholic Apologetic. I'm currently reading St. Augustine of Hippo Confessions, of course the Bible and of course the Church. I have been starting to help people around the church with their own faith. God has spoken to me and my soul feels like a fire is inside. I feel like what the many Saints spoke about when they found God and placed him above all, the Creator of all. "Great are you, O Lord, and exceedingly worthy of praise"
me too my friend, me too! it is the Grace.
Trent - your question to Protestants can also be used for Catholics. If we are saved by good works in conjunction with faith, how much good works, and what do those works look like? How do you know if you’ve done enough?
Show me in the catechism of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church where it says we are saved by works. Hint- it’s not there.
The Church teaches that we are saved by grace through faith working in love. Part of that faith and working in love is being obedient and cooperating with Gods grace and will- as Jesus said “if you love me you will keep my commandments.” John 14….what did he command us to do? Love God with all our heart mind body and soul. Love our neighbors. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the distressed, visit the imprisoned…..help when and how we can; this is cooperation with Gods will and obeying Jesus. There is no specific requirement for numbers or amounts in Catholicism that I am aware of.
How do you know if you’ve done enough? You’ll know you’ve done enough when you’re dead. What do the works look like? Look to the Corporal works of Mercy. How much is enough good works? Dedicate your life to doing good works and you’ll get enough in.
I believe Faith is tremendously important, but only tells half the story. Ask yourself, why would God create creation? Why would God incarnate himself? Might, as Tertullian put it, “flesh be the hinge of salvation”, and actions play a special role in our lives apart from our beliefs?
@ragnardanneskajold1 explains the first point that I was going to make. It is not faith+works. (since the eternal penalty for sin cannot be removed without Jesus sacrifice)
Salvation in assured for a Catholic that remains in state of grace (not committing mortal sin), that is, you will go to heaven if you die in state of grace. You remain in state of grace by not sinning mortally and receiving the sacraments.
But , we are called not only to be saved , not only to go to heaven But to love God and become like Christ (live like he lived - "be perfect like your Father in heaven is perfect" or " love one another as i have loved you") .
Hope that helps.
@@carlosojeda7257 - Hear Hear!
@@carlosojeda7257 that is faith + works though. Either Christ’s death is fully sufficient (faith) or it isn’t and you have to add something to it (works). What you just described is that Christ’s death is not fully sufficient to cover all sin - past, present, and future - therefore you have to continue doing good works to ensure salvation.
In doing so, you - and the Catholic church as a whole - are diminishing the finished work of Christ on the cross and making Him and the Father impotent to handle all sin.
As a Protestant I don’t ever worry if I’m producing enough “good works”. I do worry that I am walking in obedience, as we all should. That should be your primary question. Some may worry about works but perhaps they are young in the faith or have not worked out their faith. I don’t worry about my salvation because the Holy Spirit testifies to my conscious that I am saved. Moreover my relationship with Jesus Christ has regenerated my soul that my life is transformed, my own testimony affirms to me my salvation. Realize that this transformation was nothing that I alone could do but only Christ in me.
Obedience is work.. you obey Christ by following his teachings..
‘The HOLY SPIRIT testifies to my conscious that I am saved.’ ‘Conscious?!’ How is that?! To us Catholics it is a sin of presumption. To be saved to us is a process up until our death and only GOD can really say we are saved when we come face to face with HIM and welcome us into HIS Kingdom. That is why we need to be always in the state of HIS Grace through the Sacraments. GOD bless you always, all of you in the family.
@@Eracruz30Great observation! I too noticed that he is pronouncing his judgement according to his own conscious. This is gravely dangerous since we ourselves are not our own judge but it is God alone who judges even the hidden things. St. Paul in his epistle testified against this heretical view of false security that has plagued the followers of the reformers for centuries.
There is a book called “4 Views on the Role of Works in the Final Judgment.” Wilkin wrote a chapter on free grace theology and it was absolutely abysmal. I definitely suggest it because it includes a chapter on the Catholic view by Michael Barber and each chapter has 3 subsequent responses from the proponents of the other views. Thanks for doing this video! I can attest that when I was a baptist, it was a constant source of anxiety in my circle to question whether you “truly believed” and therefore were “truly saved” ESPECIALLY when you are struggling with committing a sin. Making the distinction between initial justification which has nothing to do with works and subsequent justification which is increased by works is very helpful for Protestants in my experience. Because then, there is a nuanced sense in which we can accept “sola fide” - as is evident from our Catholic heritage. Great video as always!
Hey brother, since I live in South Carolina, I have to ask this. Why do so many Baptists and the groups that sprung from them ask questions like "if you died tonight, do you know if you're going to heaven"? It's a bit presumptuous to assume I'm not saved. After all, these people'd never met me!
Thanks for the recommendation, already added it to my ridiculously large Amazon book list
A top 10 episode of CoT.
Two expressions of justification:
- Faith = Salvation + Works
- Salvation = Faith * (Works + 1) + AO
Thereby salvation is a result of faith and no bad works and God's grace.
I love how you never strawman your opponents, Trent. You always give them a chance to make their best argument.
Talking about some generic "Protestantism," quoting Luther, Calvin, and some other dead guys but then featuring only modern-day evangelicals and revivalists is "strawmanning" your opponents big time.
Would be like me talking about "Catholics" and claiming mainstream folks like Trent, sede vacantists, sede privationists, SSPX, Old Catholics, and Anglo-Catholics have basically the same view on Pope Francis--namely, that he is a modernist heretic and anti-pope. That wouldn't be fair or make any sense, would it.
But it's exactly what Trent does in this video re sola fide and the assurance of salvation.
Now, maybe he just doesn't know any better and is simply unaware of the substantial differences within Protestantism. Which would be sad. But it'd still be better than deliberately strawmanning the other side to make them sound like a bunch of incoherent losers.
Right?
We aren't saved by faith alone because faith can't be alone, but is accompanied by the additional theological virtues of hope and charity (Gal 5:6, 1 Cor 13:13, Hebrews 11:1)
@SheepOfChrist818 the same John 6 that is the Bread of Life narrative, where Jesus commands that we eat his literal flesh? Do you believe the Eucharist contains the Real Presence of Jesus?
The Bible says that Christ died for your sins and was raised from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). This is the gospel. Will you believe it? Will you trust your life to what it says?
Some confuse the simple matter of trusting in Christ with unscriptural appeals to “invite Christ into your heart” or “accept Christ as your Savior.” Such appeals, while well-intentioned, are not the gospel. One is saved by trusting in the person and work of Jesus on the cross for us and in his resurrection-not by “inviting Christ into one’s heart.”
Is your trust in the Christ who died for you and was raised for you? Do you trust in Christ’s death and resurrection on your behalf? If the answer is “yes”, then you have God’s own word and faithfulness that you have eternal life and will spend eternity with Christ.
Furthermore, salvation is not something that can be “lost” because you sin. Jesus’ death solved the sin problem forever. What you do or do not do has no effect on your salvation because it is Christ’s work that is sufficient before God.
To believe that you can commit some sin and “lose” your salvation is to believe that your sin is greater than Christ’s work on the cross and the power of his resurrection. Such belief strikes at the very heart of Christ’s work and insults the integrity of God.
The only possible way one can “lose” salvation is to reject the work of Christ.
@SheepOfChrist818
Christ be with you
That is just mocking God.
Do not be deceived; *God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.*
For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; *but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.*
*And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.* (Gal 6:7-9)
Maybe when you get to Chapters 14-15 you will know what it means to believe in the one the Father sent,
“Truly, truly, I say to you, *he who believes in me will also do the works that I do;* and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. (John 14:12)
I think with statements like that you really need to think about whether you have Christ.
Any one who goes ahead *and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God;* he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son.
*If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work.* (2 John 9-11)
Come to Christ and Live
Nailed it! @newglof
Trent, your questions are littered with legalism, I'm so shocked.😊
At 8:40 it is important to recognize that sin can also be sins of omission not just sins of commission. For example, failing to do ones duty can be a grave sin. Like a parent failing to properly care for their children, or a police officer failing to take action according to their oath of office, or a worker gravely wasting time at work. So often we focus on things we did wrong and neglect to have contrition for failing to do something we should have done.
Right. The rich man in the story of Lazarus was also punished for the sin of omission.
Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura is just "Sola my opinion"
Hey, watch this, I can make unsubstantiated claims too:
Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura is NOT just "Sola my opinion"
A protestant can believe they are saved, everyone who knows them believes they are saved, yet they can fall away then everyone will say that they were never saved to begin with. So in protestantism, the reality is, one can never ever know if they are truly "saved."
It all seems like the marksman fallacy, but applied at the point of judgment. These ones were true Christians because they were saved. These others were never true Christians at all.
Maybe it is from God's perspective, but that is not very helpful for the individual Christian, or pseudo Christian as the case may be.
Thank God for His Church and the sacraments.
And the angel of the Lord came again the second time, and touched him, and said to him: Arise, eat: for thou hast yet a great way to go. (1 Ki 19:7, DRC)
The Bible says that Christ died for your sins and was raised from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). This is the gospel. Will you believe it? Will you trust your life to what it says?
Some confuse the simple matter of trusting in Christ with unscriptural appeals to “invite Christ into your heart” or “accept Christ as your Savior.” Such appeals, while well-intentioned, are not the gospel. One is saved by trusting in the person and work of Jesus on the cross for us and in his resurrection-not by “inviting Christ into one’s heart.”
Is your trust in the Christ who died for you and was raised for you? Do you trust in Christ’s death and resurrection on your behalf? If the answer is “yes”, then you have God’s own word and faithfulness that you have eternal life and will spend eternity with Christ. Furthermore, salvation is not something that can be “lost” because you sin. Jesus’ death solved the sin problem forever.
What you do or do not do has no effect on your salvation because it is Christ’s work that is sufficient before God. To believe that you can commit some sin and “lose” your salvation is to believe that your sin is greater than Christ’s work on the cross and the power of his resurrection. Such belief strikes at the very heart of Christ’s work and insults the integrity of God. The only possible way one can “lose” salvation is to reject the work of Christ.
The same can be said for a catholic
@@brutus896 Catholics have as scripture teaches: hopeful confidence but not false assurance. Even St Paul does not judge himself. He says he is not acquitted. God is his judge.
@@brutus896 if they lose sanctifying grace through unrepentant mortal sin, the gift of salvation is lost. No one takes the gift away. One does it to themselves and God out of love lets them go, giving man free will to say yes, or no
🙏🙏🙌🙌🙌 Trent i dont have enough words for the importance of this channel
Sometimes I think the Sola Fide position where you can only be saved once really only applies to the Virgin Mary. She was saved through Christ before she ever sinned and has been saved her whole life. Any other Christian cannot say the same.
Protestant answer: the fruit of the Holy Spirit - love joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self control, etc. these are the essence of good works as they are the motives which spur on good works.
A good Buddhist monk has most, if not all of those things. Is he saved?
@@jdotozmy answer as an Anglican would be that no, because they are not accompanied by the faith in Christ that we are talking about.
@@morgancoyan9242 It's not obvious that he has saving faith but he might have it in a way known only to God.
This ties into issue with confessional protestants denial of venial/mortal sin distinction. If all sins are mortal and genuine believers are constantly committing them and even their best works are vitiated with sin (so a habitual lifestyle) and failing God's perfect standard, why arent such believers excommunicated/disciplined by their church? What differentiates the true from false believer if all sin is mortal? It's obvious every Protestant church ends up creating an ad hoc mortal/venial sin distinction even as their theology denies it.
I've been Catholic for little less than one year. But I love confession! Sure, it's often nerve wracking before hand, examining your conscience and putting it all into words, and thinking about saying it out loud to someone. But getting it all out, honestly, holding nothing back and hearing the words of absolution is so refreshing. There are sins in my past that used to come back to memory and haunt me, though I had stopped doing them and confessed privately to God. But after becoming Catholic and bringing them to sacramental confession, I can remember them of course, but they don't haunt me. I don't feel that awful twinge of inward shame anymore.
I’ve watched a few of Trent’s videos and I see his play. I think Trent knows the Catholic ignorant of Protestantism and the Protestant in weak theology mainstream churches May not see what he’s doing. I am Reformed Baptist and I’m 100% confident in my salvation because “Sola Fide” doesn’t stand alone. It is accompanied by 4 other Solas doctrines. Whenever I “feel” unsaved because I am a wicked sinner, I cast away the “feelings” and place my faith in the Truth which is that Christ died for me. That’s the first reminder of true saving faith in my life. Secondly, Trent uses historically reformed preachers often and mixes in bad just bad preachers to obfuscate and blend all Protestants in like he does with the youth ministry skit. What good works? Hatred for my past sin which I loved, my overall positive growth towards Godliness and holiness. What about habitual sin? Like my porn addiction? The one I loved and now hate? Well with time and faith in Jesus Christ, loving him, and falling, and returning to him and falling and again… after many many years, I have success and freedom. Was I saved? Absolutely… THAT IS THE POINT of sola fide. And Sola Gratia, and Solus Christus. What I could not accomplish, he accomplished for me… “and there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.” Romans 8:1 (notice it doesn’t say, unless you do the sacraments). I’m regenerate to the Glory of God alone and saved to Christ
I could continue going on dismantling what he says, “you aren’t really refraining from sinning”. No, yes I am. Jesus says I am not a slave to sin. Romans 6. And Whom the Son sets free is free indeed. John 8:36. And “resist the devil and he will flee”. James 4:7. I actively resist and refrain and war against my flesh. The Protestants have written a thousands of pages on this. Why do I refrain? Again, I used to LOVE my sin and now I don’t. How did such a change come about? Well, I hated the light and loved my sin. I couldn’t choose light. It HAD to be by something other than my own choosing because I HATED the light. Christ saved me.
Trent says “God doesn’t really forgive because he forgave you once”. Let’s be clear about what he is saying here. He redefined God as not omnipresent, not omniscient and not the alpha and omega. God can’t save you once and for all, he must wait to do it in real time. He is limited by you and your time. What a false gospel.
Well said!
*_“Sola Fide” doesn’t stand alone. It is accompanied by 4 other Solas doctrines._*
With all honesty, how can you have 5 sola's? Doesn't sola mean alone?
*_I’m 100% confident in my salvation_*
You stated that hatred for your past sins is evidence of this. I am not asking this as a gotcha I honestly want to know how can you have 100% certainty that 40 years from now you might hit a low point in life and return to loving those sins again?
*_“you aren’t really refraining from sinning”. No, yes I am. Jesus says I am not a slave to sin. Romans 6._*
But 1 John 8 says: 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Also, Proverbs tells us the righteous fall seven times a day, and rise again.
*_Trent says “God doesn’t really forgive because he forgave you once”. Let’s be clear about what he is saying here. He redefined God as not omnipresent, not omniscient and not the alpha and omega. God can’t save you once and for all, he must wait to do it in real time. He is limited by you and your time. What a false gospel._*
You are twisting what Trent was saying here. He is saying exactly what John says.....If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If is a word that means on the condition of. All Trent is saying is God doesn't forgive a future sin based on yesterday's confession of a different sin. This has nothing to do with God being in or out of time, it has to do with you being in time. Sure God can forgive you for a sin you haven't committed yet, but that is because He would also know that you repented of that particular sin. Guess what He is outside of time and He also knows which sins you don't repent of in the future. That's what Trent is saying.
Do you honestly believe if you confess to stealing a candy bar today you are automatically forgiven of adultery 10 years from now, even if you don't confess of that sin?
God Bless
@@Matt-1926 God bless you. Thank you for engaging. I do believe some brothers in Catholicism are saved and brothers in Christ.
1. The 5 Solas - the answer is no. Each sola addresses a separate doctrine that builds on top of the others without contradicting. You don’t have to agree but if you read it, it should make sense.
2. Again, the answer is no. I don’t just “feel” saved and 100% confident of it. I dont just like the feeling of being righteous before God and get what we call “therapeutic moralism”. Saving faith isn’t just “belief”. It is a change in nature. As Christ says “born again” and “a new creation”. I don’t just love what I hated and hate what I loved… the Spirit causes an “unveiling” of the eyes. And what didn’t make sense suddenly makes sense now. Like how pornography leads to anger issues… how it affects my marriage. How wicked and prideful I am. How sin leads to death. I now see behaviors I had in others who follow them to their ultimate conclusion and they wonder how they got there. (I’m in law enforcement). And I see Christ saved me from such a life. It is a logical, conceptual change in understanding. I understand now. Romans 12 a “transformation of the renewal of the mind”.
3. I’m glad you mentioned 1 John. I left it out of my original comment because it is obviously too long already. All of 1 John is John reassuring believers of true faith that they ARE SAVED and how to know it. It debunks all of Trent’s video. You CAN know you are saved by employing the tests John lays out in 1 John. Btw, I never said I didn’t sin. I am a wicked sinner. How do I know I’m saved? Because my life is of continual repentance. I didn’t just say a prayer once. I repent daily and confess my sins to the best of my ability. The accomplished work of my forgiveness happened only once when Christ himself said “it is finished”.
“The righteous shall live by faith”…
4. My contention with Trent is the same argument you unknowingly made. You have redefined God. He is Sovereign. He is not bound by man or time. You said “sure God can forgive you for a sin you haven’t committed yet, but that is because He would also know you repented of that particular sin”. 3 problems.
Problem A: you reduced God once again to being time bound. God didn’t ordain all things AND predestine the elect “before the foundation” Ephesians 1:3-14… man has in one way or another “autonomy”.
Problem B: God not knowing the future must first look into it and see what you have decided (repented of particular sin) returns back in time and forgives you before you’ve repented. In other words, God learns or has learned by reading the book of time in advance. That is not an omniscient God, that is a God who needs to learn more.
Problem C: I don’t know about you… but I am very confident I have sins that I don’t repent of and don’t even know I’m sinning. Idols I’ve elevated above God, work, wife, etc that are God but may take God’s proper place at times that I don’t repent of. What do you do with those? Forgiven by sacraments? Again, “therefore there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus” and he said “it is finished”. So… I trust in his accomplished work that I being finite May never know the fullness of my own sin.
Here is my challenge, rewatch Trent video and see his explanation of Protestant true saving faith brings about good works and that’s how we know we are saved. And since you brought up 1 John, read all 5 chapters and tell me it’s not what John is EXACTLY preaching there.
1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you MAY KNOW that you HAVE eternal life”
I hope no animosity is translated via this text. Look forward to your response… graciously, Sam
@@samueljimenez7420 Thanks for the reply.
*_You don’t have to agree but if you read it, it should make sense._*
Thanks, for the clarification. I'll try to find some time to research it. From my understanding different people define the meaning of the sola's differently. Any particular definition you recommend looking into?
*_Again, the answer is no._*
I'm not understanding your response here. Are you saying no I'm wrong or are you agreeing that you can't know the future?
Everything you presented here is past or present tense. Yes I agree you made a logical, conceptual change in understanding. My question is how can you know with infallible certainty that you won't change back? My point is I could see someone saying 99% certainty but to say 100% is to claim you know the future.
*_Btw, I never said I didn’t sin._*
Sorry I must have miss understood when you replied _*No, yes I am.8_ to Trent's comment “you aren’t really refraining from sinning”.
So you are saying Trent was right and you aren't really refraining from sinning?
*_Because my life is of continual repentance. I didn’t just say a prayer once. I repent daily and confess my sins to the best of my ability._*
I agree with this. My question (which is what Trent is getting at) is what happens if you stop repenting?
*_The accomplished work of my forgiveness happened only once when Christ himself said “it is finished”._*
Yes it only happened once but I believe you are misinterpreting the meaning of "It is finished". Basically, if "it is finished" is what you claim it means then you just also denied the importance of the resurrection here.
*_Problem A: you reduced God once again to being time bound._*
How come you ignored my first sentence? "All Trent is saying is God doesn't forgive a future sin based on yesterday's confession of a different sin."
This is the context of my comment. How does this comment make God time bound?
*_God didn’t ordain all things AND predestine the elect “before the foundation” Ephesians 1:3-14… man has in one way or another “autonomy”_*
I'm not following you here. Are you saying God doesn't care if we repent and he already predestined us regardless of our repentance?
Autonomy means the capacity/ability of an agent to act in accordance with objective morality rather than under the influence of desires.
Just because we have the ability to act morally doesn't mean we won't stop in the future.
*_Problem B: God not knowing the future must first look into it and see what you have decided (repented of particular sin) returns back in time and forgives you before you’ve repented._*
My goodness man you're doing the same thing to me. You are twisting my words. I never said God has to look into the future.
I said....."Guess what He is outside of time and He also knows which sins you don't repent of in the future."
I already said he is outside of time and already knows. How do you get from He knows to this means I believe he has to look into the future?
*_That is not an omniscient God, that is a God who needs to learn more._*
Could you please explain how me saying God already knows equates to you understanding me saying God has to learn?
I honestly have no clue how I could have made it any clearer to keep you from coming to this conclusion?
*_Problem C: I don’t know about you… but I am very confident I have sins that I don’t repent of and don’t even know I’m sinning._*
Not seeing the problem. If you didn't know you were doing it then you weren't doing it freely therefore it's not mortal. This is the reason why children below the age of reason and the mentally handicapped aren't guilty of sin.
*_What do you do with those?_*
Yeah that's the question I am asking. If you become aware of these sins do you have to repent to be forgiven or not?
If you start doing these sins again in the future are you forgiven even if you have no intention of repenting?
*_Again, “therefore there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus” and he said “it is finished”_*
We obviously interpret these verses differently. Because this is the same Paul who also said 2 chapters later........22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, *_provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off._*
Here's another one of those "ON CONIDTION OF" words here. Paul uses them all throughout his writings, not really sure why so many Christians ignore them?
This is the entire point Trent is making ON CONDITION you continue in God's kindness (which would include future repentance), otherwise you too WILL BE CUT OFF.
If Christ's work is finished and there is nothing for us to do then how can we be cut off, because of lack of continuing in God's kindness, according to Paul?
*_I trust in his accomplished work that I being finite May never know the fullness of my own sin_*
This has nothing to do with fullness this has to do with whether or not we have to repent of future sins or if we repentant once and "it is finished" no future sin matters anymore.
*_Here is my challenge, rewatch Trent video and see his explanation of Protestant true saving faith brings about good works and that’s how we know we are saved._*
Here's my challenge rewatch the video and notice he is asking a question not giving a definitive definition. It blows my mind how it's going over so many peoples heads. He is doing the same thing to Protestants that is done to Catholic everyday. We are always asked "if you believe works are necessary then how many works?" He just turned the table on the ridiculous question that is always asked of Catholics.
*_1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you MAY KNOW that you HAVE eternal life”_*
I'm not seeing the issue with this verse. John says YOU HAVE here. The Greek word here is "echete". This is a PRESENT TENSE indicative active verb.
So John is teaching in this entire book that if at this very moment (present tense) you are currently doing all these things(active verb) then you can know that at this very moment you have eternal life.
John doesn't say you WILL HAVE eternal life. He isn't teaching anything here about we can know with 100% certainty that we will be saved 40 years from now.
*_I hope no animosity is translated via this text. Look forward to your response… graciously, Sam_*
It would be nice if you actually responded to what I said instead of what you think I am saying. But other than that I rarely take offense from others. The way I see it we all have a fallen human nature and part of that nature has been and always will be disagreement. At the end of the day even if we don't agree on the interpretation we are still both fighting for Jesus.
God Bless
@@Matt-1926
@Matt-1926
15 hours ago
@samueljimenez7420 Thanks for the reply.
I'd recommend a Reformed Baptist or Reformed Presbyterian Perspective. Ligonier website "What are the 5 Solas" is a good quick read.
As a reformed Baptist/Presbyterian (working through paedobaptism yet which is the doctrine that divides these two camps), we are also "Calvinist". Meaning, we believe in the 5 points of Calvinism. The Acronym is TULIP. Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement (many prefer a different wording), Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints. Obviously, we believe these to be evident in Scripture alone. To this particular point, I'd point to two of those doctrines. God chooses whom he saves, (Ephesians 1 and 2, Romans 8 and 9 among many other passages). And he perseveres the Saints... (in protestantism, we believe Scripture uses saints to mean all of God's people.) (John 6:37-69, Romans 8:28-30). There are many other passages.
Maybe we are confusing ourselves. I sin daily. I am also empowered by the Holy Spirit to resist the devil and it is a commandment to do so. Prior to the "born again new birth", I had the ability to choose only sin. After salvation, we have freedom to choose either... choosing sin by falling into temptation and in moments of weakness, repenting and hating that sin and choosing freely to strive for holiness. That which i couldn't do before being saved. What makes a good work, a good work? It is now done to the Glory of God. Why did I give alms to the poor prior to conversion? For my own benefit. Why after salvation? To honor my Lord Jesus Christ and in obedience to him. THAT is what makes it a good work.
Again, maybe I don't understand your question. God sustains the saints (believer) until the end. John 6. If such a person does not continue repenting it was because "they were never of us". 1 John 2:19. It is a false faith, a false conversion. That person never truly repented... he saw Christianity as a way to "self-improve" his life and feel better about himself. People do this with all other religions, including some of the worst... like Islam.
Can you explain to me why I deny the importance of the resurrection? I don't believe I do. The Bible speaks of God in terms of a court, judge, and law. Guilty and innocent. Upon the cross, Christ pays the penalty and we are declared "innocent". Forgiven. Upon his resurrection, he proves to the world he is the Christ. The Father, poured ALL his wrath on Christ once and for all. That's ALL of Hebrews. He doesn't reserve some for you waiting in real time for you to repent or perform a sacrament. It is finished.
I thought I addressed your question. Let me try a different way. Upon true saving faith, you repent of all your sin, and your attitude towards God. We "were enemies of God (Romans 5:10). The human condition makes it impossible for us to comprehend the totality of our sin and/or some sin in real time. The Protestant view is that you repent but also "have faith in Jesus" and he is faithful to forgive. Forgive what? Even the sin you don't know you should repent of. If we were bound simply to forgiveness by the act of repenting of a sin or a conglomerate of sins, we're screwed. Trent whole premise is wrong. Maybe that's why I didn't engage with it. I reject that premise. A great quote I like is "I'm not a sinner because I sin, I sin because I'm a sinner". I repented of my entire demeanor towards God, my hatred for his commandments and his law. He is faithful to forgive my sins. I confess to Christ my sin and repent daily out of gratitude and obedience. Not to "regain" or "re-earn" a rightful standing before Him. Christ accomplished that for me.
God is "Sovereign" and by definition man cannot be "autonomous". man has in one way or another “autonomy” You chose a definition of "Kantian Moral Philosophy". The other definitions are "self-government" and "free from outside influence". The Bible speaks of our "inability" or "Total Depravity" to choose God. "They hated the light because they loved the darkness". Romans 3 says, "There is NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, There is none who seeks God, no not one." God must intervene to save some or else ALL would go to hell. He alone saves. The Bible also says, Ephesians 2:10, "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which.
You asked:
God absolutely cares and not only does he care, he calls ALL to repentance. The Bible speaks of two parallel truths. (If you're interested watch John MacArthur on RUclips (Twin Truths). God's Sovereignty to choose whom he saves and Man's Responsibility to repent. Before you ask how is this possible... read Romans 9.
I don't wish to twist your words and will rephrase and maybe you can engage my view. When Christ he actually accomplishes "two" things. I should've mentioned this above. He pays the penalty due our sins and achieves "righteousness" on our behalf. "The cup" of wrath is poured on him at the cross and through the perfect active and passive obedience of his life he accomplishes righteousness on our behalf. If he had simply died for our sins, we'd be forgiven for a second and then guilty again by our own actions. But he also accomplishes for us "righteous" so that all who trust in him may have eternal life. God knows our sin, past, present and future, because he ordained all things and Christ died knowing all things ordained.
Again, God is listed as "judge", "just and justifier", "declaring just and unjust", and Christ as "lawyer", and "law". This isn't how justice works. It doesn't even work like that in our broken system. Just because you didn't know or weren't doing it "freely" doesn't mean you aren't guilty. Again, follow this rabbit down the rabbit hole. If such a thing is true, the worst you can do is preach the gospel and tell people of Jesus Christ. By preaching, you've now contributed to their punishment if they reject Christ. Leave them in their ignorance and they may have a chance.
The elect will ALWAYS repent. It is in their nature to do so. If someone does not repent, they aren't part of the elect. I repent of my sins, not to earn or re-earn God's favor. I repent and trust in Christ's already accomplished forgiveness.
Yes some people "apostatize" and fall away. Some people are false converts. This doesn't deny God's elect will always persevere to the end.
I 100% agree with this statement. The disagreement we have is on the premise. Who is in "God's kindness"? Do I have to continue worrying about God's kindness as a Catholic then? It sure seems implied by your statement. The Bible says the church was "wheat and tears". The Wheat are God's elect who will persevere to the end and the tears are false converts. The warning is to the false converts. And sometimes, false converts become wheat because of the warnings of "on condition of". This isn't ignored in Protestant circles.
Again, the elect (God's chosen people) will persevere.
Here is my challenge, rewatch Trent video and see his explanation of Protestant true saving faith brings about good works and that’s how we know we are saved.
Here's my challenge rewatch the video and notice he is asking a question not giving a definitive definition. It blows my mind how it's going over so many peoples heads. He is doing the same thing to Protestants that is done to Catholic everyday. We are always asked "if you believe works are necessary then how many works?" He just turned the table on the ridiculous question that is always asked of Catholics.
You are correct, Present tense... I know I HAVE (present tense) eternal life because Christ accomplished it for me. I know that 40 years from now, I will be living out 1 John more Christ-like than I am "presently", because I "have" eternal life.. All truly saved will always to varying degrees and peaks and valleys, be a 1 John type of person.
I shall leave you with this. Remember 1 John is addressing gnosticism. Many were being told they could not have "true fellowship" with Christ. John is assuring the saints they are in true fellowship with Christ. I want to assure you, if you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, that he died and rose again on the third day... you are NEVER EVER unsaved, or needs God's favor to be replenished towards you. You may live with the peace and certainty that he has accomplished for you everything. You can't contribute to your salvation, "not of works so that no one may boast". Jesus says in John 6, "all that the Father gives me I will cast out" And in another "I shall never lose any". Don't try to earn his favor or earn your salvation. He expressed his love for you by sending his son to die for you. He doesn't need more from you on top of that.
Amen brother!
God Bless
Hello Trent, I'm protestant (and non-native english person, apologies in advance for not seeing all nuances and maybe using an incorrect term here or there...), and I must say that I love and enjoy your contents, and praise God for your apologetic work. I do understand that Protestants and Cahtolics are not using the "Justification" term in the exact same way. I believe that what catholics usually mean by justification, is the long life process of living a life in accordance with God's moral framework, whereas protestants would use 'justification' to describe the judicial act of declaring someone righteous because of his acceptance of Christ' sacrifice. The equivalent term for protestants would be "sanctification", See Guillaume Bignon's works about this. Now, I see your objection being pastoral in nature as to how convince oneself, or others of your commitment to true faith. And while I think it is an excellent question, I find it somewhat moot. What would be the purpose of proving one-self to others? Why would I need to prove anything to God, that sees in my heart and knows whether or not my faith is true or not? Where is there a complication to be found in that? If it's to know for myself, I know if I am honest whether I believe or not that the sacrifice of Christ and my faith in it is sufficient to get justified (what catholics would put as "get into state of grace" I believe). As for sin, when committed, the bible clearly states that confession of our sin to God, he's faithful to forgive us (1 John 1.9), so there is a path to reconciliation.
I would definitely like to hear a debate between Guillaume Bignon and yourself on the question "What is necessary to obtain salvation" and the protestant and Catholic answer to that question. It would be instructive, and see here whether the "faith alone" position, would really be inconsistent, whether it's simpler or more complex than the catholic answer, and which one would be the most inline with the biblical data.
Again thank you for all your work, I really enjoy it, I'm learning a lot from you !
insightful reply thanks
Thank you Sherekahn, you expressed my thoughts exactly concerning the different definitions/uses of the term "justification". I think Trent has an honest misunderstanding of the protestants use the term, where you correctly understand it. Unfortunately, his misunderstanding led to a video where many of his points weren't relevant. Protestants don't believe that our walk/life in Christ is done apart from works, but that our justification (being declared not guilty/being forgiven of sins) is by faith in Christ alone.
Would it be accurate to say that the second greatest commandment, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself", is sufficient to debunk Sola Fide? It seems impossible to love our neighbors without action.
??? What are you even talking about?
I think at least one common response from someone who defends Sola Fide would be to say that any command/moral action we are told to do are about a right and good response to being saved, but they aren't the thing that actually saves us (which would of course be faith). So I wouldn't point to this or any other particular command.
It might be more fruitful to discuss passages where it specifically teaches that not obeying those commands results in damnation (e.g. the sheep and the goats teaching in Matthew 25 or Paul teaching in 1 Cor 6 that the unrighteous will not inherit eternal life and listing several moral actions).
But even those will still require some amount of dialog about what a reasonable understanding of them is, not just straight quotation, because if they are thoughtful about their faith they will already have an interpretive framework that would make it appear that those verses don't actually involve 'works' in salvation.
@@jwatson181 Matthew 22:34-40
"When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees,
they gathered together, and one of them,
a scholar of the law tested him by asking,
"Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
He said to him,
"You shall love the Lord, your God,
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
and with all your mind.
This is the greatest and the first commandment.
The second is like it:
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
@@John_Fisher that’s a good point
@@BibleonaBoat 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are his creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, so that we may walk in them.
Even though this is a short video, I can say this is one of your best videos.
Bc has a former Protestant/ anti-catholic,
I can tell u this is the huge issue that is always taught in Prot churches. And my family church hopped in a lot of diff churches, So we always heard diff Churches but all talking about the same topic with Sola Fide, & Sola Scriptura/Canon.
So I just wanted to add my 2cents in, & say the more videos we have on Sola fide, & Sola scriptura/canon the better. So we can bring in more of our Prot brothers & sisters, to the fullness of the truth.
So we have to keep hammering on these two subjects over & over & over again, because these are the pillars, the foundation of what protestantism is.
So once one of these teachings crumbles for them, the rest fall like dominoes & they can see that protestantism is unbiblical 💯💯💯
Lord bless u all
God bless.
@@darrellperez1029 Lord bless u as well 🙏🏼📿🌹💯
As a Lutheran, I agree with Trent Said. We do have the objectives means of grace in the Holy Sacraments. We don’t have to worry about how many works we do or the quality of our works. We rest in Christ and receive the the sacrament of confession and absolution and holy Eucharist every week.
I love that round table idea Trent! Please bring Dr Ortlund into it! I think discussions between the two of you would be very fruitful!
This podcast does not work by faith alone you need to subscribe 😂😂😂
Catholic teaching on this truly is good news!
no, no it is not
The good news is Jesus work on the cross not our futile work efforts for salvation.
@@rijoab of course, Catholics agree with your statement. God bless
Yippee, another Trent Horn video!
Thank you Trent for sharing. Love your content. I am protestant, but my kids go to a private Catholic school so I'm pretty familiar with Catholicism. I've definitely been guilty of criticizing, the Catholic religion and as of late have kind of changed my thinking. Like you said a lot of the things that we preach and teach are so closely related, maybe you're right we are just coming up with different ways and kind of complicating some of the original basic things of the faith. With that being said Keep up the good work I'm sure that God will continue to bless your ministry.
I would love to see a genuine dialogue with them. Excellent video brother Trent. I struggled and fought with it, but ultimately I look at things based on outcomes; if I'm for Christ genuinely, I want to produce good work for Him regardless of which side is right.
Excellent job in teasing out the threads of this issue. 👍
Hello all. I see some Protestants get unhappy about these sort of videos. However they don't understand that commenting here only helps the video and also the channel to grow bigger and to get to more people on RUclips. So, I wish more Protestants come to express themselves and by doing so, helping the algorythm to recommend the video.
Trent this is excellent. You explained what my arguments have always been to Protestants in a way I was never able to verbalize so well. Thank you!!
Hey Trent, I just realized the ramifications of your usual closing line “I hope you have a very blessed day,” and I want to say thank you.
15:55 this description is remarkably similar to confessional Lutheranism with almost semantical differences:
-Replace reconsiliation with Confession
- Infant baptism delivers faith just not from the parents
-continual justification could be called sanctification (I'll have to look into this more to be sure)
The rest seemed very similar, the big difference would be the imputed vs infused debate
Jimmy Atkin vs Jordan Cooper was a phenomenal dialogue on this topic
Catholics also call Reconciliation confession. Sometimes it's also called the sacrament of penance. All the same thing. I agree with you that practically, many (not all) protestant beliefs are very similar to Catholic teachings, just with a different vocabulary.
I went to a Protestant bible chat yesterday (I've been before so I knew what to expect) it typically just turns into a "gotcha" with Scripture amongst the different Protestant beliefs. I listened as a former Anglican engaged a Calvinist on whether or not we have to cooperate with God's grace. The Calvinist said that she was saved at 6 years old and there was a moment where it all "just made sense". I have an almost 5 year old son. That's pretty impressive at that age to have such a profound understanding of God and his doctrines AND to know you are saved and exactly what that means...... Very suspect to say the least.
As a father of 3 young children, I will just say don't underestimate how smart kids can be. Also, you don't necessarily need "a profound understanding of God and his doctrines" to be saved. The only thing necessary is the understanding that we are all sinners, Jesus died to save us from our sins, and rose again. These 3 basic facts are simple enough for everyone to understand.
The answer to your question is simple Trent. Fruits of the spirit. You don't prove it. You live it. You live it because you realized that you are a filthy, wicked sinner who if sent to hell will be the most fair outcome, and then you realize what Christ did to prevent it and give your life to him as a living sacrifice. Allan Par is wrong about feeling. It is not about feelings. It absolutely doesn't matter what we feel. We are slaves of Christ. We are nothing. He is everything.
Justification by faith alone is true, but it shouldn't be preached the way it has been done. That is why we have all the people thinking that if they believed at certain moment of their lives they got saved and that's it. Does not matter how they live after it.
I believe in sole fide, I think your questions are excellent and made me think quite a bit. Thank for the video
Always add 2 Thessolonians 2:15. That itself defines sola fide sola scriptura and sola gratcia
5:16 Done ✅ A Repentant heart and a turning from sin.
This was a thought provoking video. As an Anglican, I adhere to certain expressions of “sola Scriptura” and “sola fide” that differ in important respects from the typical ways they are expressed today, specifically in acknowledging the necessity of the dominical sacraments in salvation and the importance of the ancient ‘rule of faith’ and early patristic consensus in correctly recognizing the canon and interpreting the same. I have more thoughts on specific issues raised in the video, but bedtime is calling…
Same for us Lutherans
Thanks for this video, it helped me a lot.😊
Oh the apple tree analogy for sola fide, we hear it time and time again…an apple tree doesn’t just produce fruit on its own, it still requires sunlight and water (works) for production.
Sunlight and water aren't produced by the tree. God makes it rain and the sun shine. The tree doesn't produce apples out of nowhere but is instead reliant on God providing the rain and the sun to bear fruit.
If we were saved by Faith alone, then whats the point of the general judgement? There wouldnt be any point to it.
Here is what the Scripture says about this:
Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
- 2 Corinthians 5:9-10
That's because even though you may be saved from condemnation, you works are judged to see if you deserve any kind of reward in the new heavens and new earth. We are told that people whose works were not actually good, and are like hay, wood, and stubble will be burned up, but that he himself will still be saved, where as others who had truely done good works that are like that of gold, and gemstones, they will also be tested but will not be burned away, and they shall keep those rewards. Both men are still saved from eternal damnation, but one enters into eternity with less than the other because his deeds were not good, and were burned away. Thaf is why we still have a general judgement despite faith being the only thing required for salvation.
@@anthonypolonkay2681😪 another Catholic basing faith on works alone and works only to seek “rewards” in heaven. When we die, we’re all equal in heaven
@@ryangalligan1040 the scriptures don't say that though
Trent Moore knocked it out of the park with this video. The way he explained these issues was very articulate and I think it does present a big problem with Protestantism that people like alan parr need to answer. What are you saying? Makes perfect sense and it’s easy to see how specific doctrine on these types of things is better than a feeling or subjectivity.
Thanks again, Trent!
I love the way that you, like one of my other heroes, C.S.Lewis, don't just refute the easiest case, but allow your opponents to state their case in the strongest possible terms ... and THEN refute it.
BTW, to me the simplest refutation of "sola fide" is to read Matthew 25, 31-46 (the parable of the final judgment, "sheep and the goats"). Both the righteous and the unrighteous call Jesus "Lord", i.e. they all have some "faith", except it is not faith that the Lord demands of them - only charity.
@MalumbaBono. The late, great singer Keith Green had a song about the Sheep and the Goats and at the end of it he would intone that the only difference between them “is what they did and didn’t DO!” As much as I loved Keith Green’s music, there was one glaring weakness with his analysis: the sheep were SHEEP and the goats were GOATS. They were different not only in how they acted, but in who they innately WERE!!
Outstanding Trent! Can you do a video on all 5 Solas? I notice there is a lot on Scriptura and Fide but not a lot on Gratia, Christus, and Deo Gloria.
That would be interesting. I think the first two are emphasized mostly because they are the only two that we can't really affirm, at least in a qualified sense.
We agree that unmeritied grace is first in the order of conversion, we don't believe that anyone but Christ saves us, and we believe that merit or "glory" belongs first to God because our merits derive from God's grace working through us. Though Pope Benedict XVI did write that when properly understood we can even affirm "faith alone".
😅 Looking forward to those youth ministry skits, Trent!
I guess I would explain it this way (I don't know what label that would put on it). A person is saved by grace though faith. Faith produces fruit through works that you want to do because of Christ now working in your life. People can see those works and know you are saved, but God doesn't need to see those works to see your faith. The works don't save you, but rather the faith.
you didn't answer the question though - what are these good works?
is it going to church every day? every sunday?
is it being nice most of the time? some of the time?
should a man once saved leave the mother of his children because they aren't married and living in sin? or can he stay?
how do you know you have the "faith that produces fruit"? How do you know you have Christ working in your life?
Catholic Church has specifics - the works of mercy show life supernatural life in the soul - breaking the 10 commandments show death in the soul
@@captainwasabi13 As I said, I don't think works save you. Your faith does, and God knows your faith.
Books like James say that because you are a Christian, you will product works/fruit that others will be able to see to know that you are a Christian, but it's not the works that save you.
I think that means living, as best as you can, a life as Christ would live. People can't be perfect, but they can turn from their sin and obey God. They can witness to people and spread the gospel, they can read the Bible to better know God, and by doing all of these things grow even more in all of these areas. Rinse. Repeat.
The Bible doesn't give us a list of works that we need to do in order to keep or increase our salvation and I do not believe the church has the ability to do that either.
@@missinglink_eth "People can't be perfect, but they can turn from their sin and obey God."
that's a contradiction
if you imperfectly obey God when he asks you to not murder or sleep with your neighbor's wife that is the definition of sin / of not obeying God
@@captainwasabi13 do you sincerely think that’s what I was implying? If so I’ll try to clarify but it seems you just want to pick fights in a comments section.
I'm not sure what constitutes "picking a fight" in your world, but this is the internet so for me, unless someone starts attacking me as a person, then I'll play ball. whereas pointing out contradictions in my arguments and using examples to do so is fair game
please, by all means, clarify what imperfect obedience looks like in the Christian life verses imperfect obedience that shows there is no faith in them
where is the line?
is there a line?
can someone with the Holy Spirit commit sin? any sin? just some sins?
----
on a side, I feel like we are covering what the video already covered
namely: protestants struggle with explaining the boundaries of this faith that produces good works vis-a-vis
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:14 🕊️ The speaker introduces the topic of "justification by faith alone" (Sola Fide) and highlights a significant question challenging its validity.
01:51 🤔 Differentiates between forms of Sola Fide, including the extreme stance of Free Grace theology, asserting that good works play no role in salvation.
04:25 🌱 Argues that while works don't justify, they are proof of true faith according to Protestant perspectives.
05:21 🤨 Poses a crucial question to defenders of Sola Fide, seeking specific details on the good works that accompany true faith.
08:31 🔄 Highlights Catholic belief that salvation is not based on a specific amount of good works but on being in a state of grace.
11:02 🤷♂️ Questions the Protestant dilemma of proving one's Christianity through visible evidence and draws parallels to the Catholic perspective.
13:36 😕 Criticizes the Protestant reliance on subjective feelings and experiences as indicators of true faith, leading to uncertainty.
15:57 🔄 Advocates for the simplicity of the Catholic explanation, emphasizing the role of grace, sacraments, and reconciliation in the Christian life.
17:34 🤔 Expresses a preference for the simplicity of Catholic doctrine over the perceived complexity of Protestant explanations on faith and works.
It is in black and white. Ephesians 2:8-9. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." If you are truly saved, yes, you will WANT to do good works. If you don't, you are not truly saved. But the works don't cause the faith. (Some of the clips that you shared said this as well.)
Hey Trent Protestant here, enjoyed your video. When most Protestants talk about the fruit they mean the fruit of the spirit. Galatians 5
Trent: [according to protestantism] "A Saved person does not have to choose to do good works in order to remain saved, because that would make his salvation depend on making the right choices in life instead of it being dependant upon faith alone"
This is a misunderstanding. It's like saying that something that has color doesn't HAVE to have shape, since that would mean that the color was dependent on the shape. No, having color logically entails the presence of a shape, and that's perfectly coherent even though the color isn't what determines the shape. Similarly, being regenerated logically entails the presence of good works even though the regeneration is not determined/caused by the good works.
"exactly how much good works"
This question just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the protestant position. It isn't about the amount of good works, it's about whether or not a person has truly repented of their sin and submitted to the Lordship of Christ. If they have done so, then they are saved. And obviously, a person who has truly submitted to Christ will strive to obey him. Objecting that "protestants can't tell me exactly how much sinning you can do" misses the whole point. To specify some minimum amount means that a person could reasonably say, "oh I can get away with X amount of sin, so that's no big deal," but I would argue that such a person has fundamentally misunderstood the call to holiness and probably doesn't have Christ at all.
Where sin is relevant to one's salvation is only how it reflects on one's submission to Christ. So, for example, a person who is submitted to Christ can still fall into sexual temptation and commit adultery, simply because of the weakness of their flesh. Of course, if he is submitted to Christ, he will repent and strive to overcome this sin. But a man who is submitted to Christ could not make the conscious decision to live with a woman while unmarried since that involves a conscious, ongoing decision to reject God's will for his life. It isn't the amount of sin that makes the difference, it's the condition of that person's heart.
The elephant in the room here is that, if you don't make Christ's Lordship the center, and you instead emphasize the sacraments, then Catholics could easily engage in whatever horrific debauchery they want and then flippantly go to confession since they can take penance and get a "purely objective sign" that they are saved. Now I have a sense that Trent would object to this, and perhaps say that a person who truly has faith would not so abuse the sacraments, and that sacraments taken without such faith are invalid. And I would agree, but that places Trent and crew exactly where the protestants are: measuring their salvation by whether or not they are sincerely placing their faith in Christ.
He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Matthew 25:33-46
1. Trent's point is that a truly saved doesn't have to choose good works, they just will perform good works. Using your analogy, all objects with color have shape, but you can tell whether something is an object with color based on whether it has a shape or not. A persons salvation isn't dependent on works, but you can determine whether they have it based on whether they have works or not.
2. Yes, whether you repent of your sins or not is what matters. But there are sins you wouldn't necessarily have to repent of and strive to remove from your life. If you always overeat some on Thanksgiving and don't feel sorry for it, for example. You're salvation is probably fine if that's the only sin you commit.
3) Yes. Even the sacraments depend on your interior state. If you don't have any intention of sinning no more or you aren't repentant, than the confession is invalid, yes. That doesn't really challenge our belief, we would just call it a lack of repentance/intention of sinning no more.
4. I think the difference between Sola Fide and what believe is that under Sola Fide, after you accept the Faith, you would always repent and strive to avoid sin in the future whenever you fall into sin. And if you don't (for example, the man who lives with a woman who isn't your wife), then that proves you never truly had faith in the first place (and you should commit yourself to Christ for real). Under that view, if the unmarried man living with a woman ever sees the errors of his ways and repents, it must be his first time being a true Christian. Under the Catholic view, you could truly have faith, fall away using your own free will (same example, say by cohabitating), and then repent of that sin.
5. Now one reason for our view is this: say you're a guy who converts to Christianity and then starts cohabitating with a woman who's not your wife a year later. If you repent of that sin, under Sola Fide, that must mean had you died before you repented but after you "converted" to Christianity, then you wouldn't be saved. But under our view, you could freely choose God's grace, then choose to reject the faith, and then repent and accept the Faith again. Say you're baptized as a Catholic and can't imagine yourself cohabitating with someone. However, a year later you could fall away from the faith and do just that. That doesn't mean you weren't sincere during your baptism, but it does mean you need to repent.
@@chesterbless9441 I agree with much of what you wrote here, except qualify that Sola Fide and perseverance of the saints are different doctrines. There are many who believe in the former (wesleyan's, lutherans, many anglicans) but not the latter.
Love your videos Trent. Would love to see more apologetic videos against Islam. I think you've destroyed Protesntantism enough haha
Maybe he isn't as knowledgeable about Islam as he is about Protestantism. You can't be an expert on everything!
I've done a few on Islam on the past, and I did a recent one about the Muslim discussion on the PBD podcast, but more on the subject would be interesting!
@TheCounselofTrent I've seen them all! And would love to see more. Thank you for all the hard work, God bless!
@@TheCounselofTrentTrent please do a video on the Papal Audience Hall on why it looks like a Serpent. And the Resurrection statue looks Demonic.
@TheCounselofTrent Would you be willing to do some Jewish objections as well? I think that Jewish objections and arguments, especially regarding interpretation of Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 are major ones that Christians don’t know how to respond to.
A good way to look at it is. If a nonbeliever lived his life, his entire life in sin, without repentance, but on his death bed truly, and with a penitential heart, cried out for forgiveness and faith in Jesus Christ, he would be saved.
So yes, that is not ideal but the saving grace of Christ is enough even for the sinful as long as they come to put their faith in Christ. No matter how long it took them to come to that acceptance of Christ.
Time-stamp
6:22, 6:30 - Ironically, this is a point made by those in the “hyper-grace” movement - the crowd that rejects “Lordship salvation”.
10:00, 10:30 - An apple tree produces apples…
12:50, 13:10 - Getting into the details
13:50, 14:54 - Trent’s take
Protestant Guilt is heavier than Catholic Guilt - you never know if you're "bearing enough fruit"
No...the guilt is knowing you have received salvation without any deeds on your part. That it is a gift that is undeserving and can never be paid back.
The most beautiful part is that it doesn't have to paid back.
That was not my experience.@@obcane3072
@@obcane3072 have you ever read the Parable of the Talents in Matt 25?
We don't worry about earning eternal life, or about purgatory, or earning others out of purgatory.
@@_ready__ Through making Jesus my Lord. How do you receive eternal life?
I'm a proestiant and I usually take the "fruit of good works" as a proverb., Its a good way to guess if other people genuinely beleive, but at the end of the day, only God knows.
It’s not perfection that matters but direction.
Christ be with you
You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matt 5:48)
Come to Christ and Live
@@MrKev1664 what did Jesus mean by Matthew 5:48?
@@Justas399
Christ be with you
Its just a guess but I think he meant Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.
To love all people with the same Love the Father has Loved us.
Come to Christ and Live
@@MrKev1664 here is what the word “perfect” means in Greek New Testament:
“the meaning of the word includes the ideas of "full-growth, maturity, workability, soundness, and completeness." In the pagan Greek mystery religions, the word referred to those devotees who were fully instructed as opposed to those who were novices.
brought to its end, finished, wanting nothing necessary to completeness; when used of men it means full-grown, adult, of full age, mature.”
@@Justas399
Christ be with you
you will need to explain more about how that changes anything.
Jesus is reference out love for others and how we have to be complete, at full growth, perfect which every you like but the example of this he gives is the Father.
when our love is like his we will be complete our Growth.
He has not shown some arbitrary standard but perfection.
Come to Christ and Live
Im a prostentant and i love watching Trenth Horn and i've learned a lot from him.. Honestly, Trent Horn has always a good and reasonable idea.
So why i am still a protestant?
Good question
Guess you haven’t caught the curiosity bug to explore the Catholic faith further yet?
For some it’s a very gradual process that takes years, for others it’s a sudden firecracker where they can hardly sit still through RCIA classes.
Guess maybe take some time and figure out what you like/dislike, agree/disagree with the Catholic Church on and go from there? One suggestion is read through the Catechism of the Catholic as that’s an overall source of the basic tenants and ideas of Catholicism. Father Mike Schmitz actually has Catechism in a Year podcast going on right now, the same guy who did Bible in a Year.
The episodes are about 15 to 20 minutes each and he goes through the text and provides thoughts and clarifications on some things. May also be a good resource to help ya figure out what being a Catholic is about and how one should be in their life.
@@jendoe9436 thank you
I’m a Protestant, but I love your channel Trent. You speak so well and kindly.
My thoughts on faith alone are as follows: Works are not “evidence” of faith. Salvation isn’t dependent on doing good. None of us can be saved by our works as we all sin. Our salvation is from Jesus and our faith in Him.
Now, the Bible says “ faith without works is dead”; I believe this means a person who believes God exists but doesn’t want to do good like doesn’t have a strong faith. True faith in Jesus and understanding of what he did for us is motivation to do good.
Now, we all still sin. Sometimes because we get angry and passionate- like fighting with family members, sometimes because it can be really hard to escape the addiction- such as drugs or porn, or because we don’t realise that the Bible condemns our actions. However, I believe it is down to the motive. If we do these things remorselessly and with pride, our faith is dead. However, if we are simply struggling but are repentant, then we have faith.
Do you understand what I’m saying? Let me know how this compares to a Catholic perspective.
Never ask a woman her age... or a protestant if they know any Latin beyond Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura
Why such bigotry? And why is knowing Latin special? I guess it makes sense when your father is from Rome. Protestants' father is from Heaven. I guess it's true, we aren't obsessed with classical Italy like you lot. Rome this, Pope that... Why is it that the majority of the time you guys bring up God it seems to be to support something earthly? Love God, love others. That's what it's all about.
@@Real_LiamOBryan’such bigotry’ then you go on to assume we don’t believe in the Father? Don’t be silly.
@@arturmonteiro8541 I didn't assume, claim, or even imply that you don't believe in the Father. Read again, only better, then try again, only harder.
@@Real_LiamOBryan you clearly implied that Catholics worship the pope
@@arturmonteiro8541 No, I didn't. I implied that you're obsessed with Rome, the Pope, and Latin.
This going to be a problem for the Sola-Fiders :)
Smiling while watching**
Calvin’s view and the Puritan view espoused by John Owen is closer to the Catholic teaching than the heretical Baptist view to sure. However, it is still wrong. If the faith that “saves” is NOT alone, then how can it be “faith alone” that saves? This is a simple semantic “dodge” with no foundation in Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition. Keep up the good work, Trent! 😊😊😊😊
Thank you Trent. You are a blessing! 🕊
Way to get to the heart of the issue! Clear and precise! Well done Trent. I’m looking forward to response videos by Gavin and others.
I'm looking forward to some responses from Catholics about the pope declaring that transgenders can be baptized and be godparents now. Catholics seem to be ignoring it though. All the new is ablaze about it. The world knows the Catholic church is getting all inclusive w/ Francis at the helm. Since Catholics believe the pope stands in to represent Christ on earth, it's like saying Jesus is all for this. Pretty sure Jesus is not.
Protestants: Everyone who has true faith will, ceteris paribus, have good works.
Then, ceteris paribus, good works are a necessary condition for salvation, even if they are not the cause of salvation.
Simple like that.
Faith produces the fruits of the Spirit. Jesus is the only path to salvation. There is nothing we do for our salvation but to put our hope in him. Jesus testifies that we will know one by their fruits.
Galatians 5:22-23
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
why didn't you answer the question? What If I have all those things, but live in a homosexual union?
What you listed are properties, not actions. "Joy".Joy is in no way shape or form a work a christian does.
Paul never says our faith produces the fruits of the Spirit. He is listing the fruits in this verse one of which is faithfulness. Basically you just claimed that your continued faith is produced by your faith.
Keep reading to verse 25. Paul says.....25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also be guided by the Spirit.
Paul is teaching here that if we live by the Spirit (by producing the fruits he just listed) then these actions will point us in the right direction so we can be guided by the Spirit.
The entire Chapter of Galatians 5 is Paul teaching how our bad works lead us away from the Spirit of Christ. That is why he teaches...19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these. I am warning you, as I warned you before: those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The whole point of the chapter is our good works are necessary for salvation for without them we will not be guided by the Spirit.
God Bless
I converted from Catholicism to a Baptist faith 2 years ago after beginning to study the Bible deeply. I felt that there are teachings in the bible not observed by Mother Church. As I studied more, It seems that the book in Galatians is overly apparent in the doctrine of Faith "Alone." Though the word "alone" never appears, I believe it is implied, HEAVILY. We know from Pauls teachings, particularly Galatians 2:16 (16 yet we know that a person is not justified 1 by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.) that FAITH is what justifies us.
This was a particularly big hurdle for me as a former Catholic. It just seemed to easy. In retrospect, most protestants would disagree with "punch ticket salvation." I believe this is where the debate really begins.
Now, Works of the law and Good Works are two different things. I think Good Works are the fruit of righteousness that are produced once we are filled with the Holy Spirit. James 2: 18 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
The following verses made me think deeply when having to choose between the traditions of Mother Church, and following the Bible:
Mark 7 7:9 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
I enjoy watching your channel, Im not an apologist, and I dont think we were ever left any "How to Guide" that specifically breaks down Barney style what number of works get us where, but they most certainly attribute to our reward in heaven. I may not perform enough good works to have some really great position once Im there, but Id happy to just be on the winning team :) Matthew 6: 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
I am the son and grandson of Baptist pastors. After becoming a Christian (long before I became Catholic), I left the Baptist church because it's governing structure of autonomous church bodies is nowhere supported in the Bible.
Hello Roman catholic friends. The big question that starts around 7:00 marker, I would answer, as a Protestant (reformed Presbyterian), that the book of 1 John in its 1-5 chapters speak of the person who is “of God” which is how John puts it in the chapters.
I’m open to discussion if anybody wants to have a discourse.
This is a thought I had on this from a Protestant perspective (I’m on my way starting RCIA in two weeks), if “faith alone” without works, then the modern church fits the bill by not having works for failing evangelism and discipleship, charity, and communion.
I mean from my experience and seeing it that the works aren’t there, just sharing the gospel only talking about Jesus and nothing else. The jersey is on but the training is not.
Now I say this only still learning this topic and trying to learn and wrap my head around it all.
The good works are feeding the poor, encouraging others Christ, keeping the Commandments of Christ, preaching the gospel.
And others would have a different list
So if you don't personally feed the poor does that mean you lack true faith, even if you keep the other Commandments?
@@TheCounselofTrent why would they not want to feed the poor? After all, Christ commands it.
@@l21n18 I didn’t give an exhaustive list.
are we observing this in pros...infact arent pros the typical critics of those listed good works ?
Galvin incoming
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Did you mean “Gavin,” or did you combine “Gavin” and “Calvin?” Because if so, I like it!
Please don't distort Christian doctrine. There is not a number of works one must do to prove faith. Your faith is evidenced by repentance and a new desire to do what pleases God. We strive not to sin once we are born again but since we are still flesh we may stumble every now and again.
I want to first say that I’m a flawed mortal man, but I recognize Christ as my savior. My reasoning is flawed and I come to the comment section to admit that. I am a Protestant who’s always been interested in deep thinking and understanding theology as well as apologetics. I currently believe that when someone commits themselves to Christ and accepts him into their life, they are saved. However I agree with Catholics that someone can be separated from God, but only of their own will. I don’t believe sin alone can separate, however it can lead someone to separation. I am grateful for Trent and I love his channel and all of my catholic brothers and sisters. Please keep me in your prayers that I, and all of us may be truthful in our theology.
With that being said, I do want to mention that I think the simple analogy of marriage mostly explains what I believe. When you marry someone, you are giving your life over to be in a union with them, and you make a vow to love them until the day you die. In the same way, a saved person is in union with Christ. Marriage has its ups and downs, but through all that you commit yourself to them. You don’t sever your connection to them unless you get a divorce. If one cheats on their partner this represents a cardinal sin in my example), it doesn’t automatically separate the marriage. It harms the relationship, but it doesn’t sever it. It can lead to divorce, but you aren’t separated on those grounds alone. It is a decision of the couple that they want to separate. In the same way, I don’t believe a cardinal sin separates you from Christ, however it harms your relationship with God. In other ways, a married couple can be on different levels. One could be more committed to their wife and always buy her flowers, whereas someone else could be lazier or less caring. This doesn’t mean they aren’t married, but it does mean that one person has a better relationship.
Thank you for reading my thoughts. I come in humbleness and am truly seeking answers. If I am wrong, I hope to change my ways.
The problem with any attempt to prove someone IS or IS NOT a Christian via actions is that anyone could be lying. It is the heart that matters, and NO sin can separate us from the love of God, not even mortal sin that is regretted and repented from. Venial sin is just the cost of being human, but must also be repented from. Desired to change. Attempted to change.
The scripture is clear: What bought your salvation, is Christ’s blood alone.
Now the apostle Paul says that we should have works that are worthy of the price Christ paid, but those are not quantifiable in such a way as to deny heaven because of them for the lack there of.
For justification comes by grace through faith in Christ alone.
Well said
Trent you complicate the simple gospel of salvation, and destroy the gift what Jesus did on the cross for our sins.
Romans 3:25
King James Version
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
You make some very valid points here. I grew up under protestant doctrine and have rejected many of the doctrines that I do not think are biblical. I consider myself a disciple of Christ, but take no religious titles of man (titles being based on the cult of personality, I believe in violation of the principle discussed starting in 1 Corinthians 3:4) . I was literally thinking about this topic when your video popped up in my feed. Many reformed people shout constantly about "grace alone through faith alone" but when someone who was baptized in their tradition displays really bad behavior in the future (and are deliberately unrepentant) many then say "well, that's evidence it wasn't a true conversion" . They have created and entirely subjective measuring stick where they get to play God (even if it's only in their own mind) . You accurately highlighted that the good works standard is most often left open to personal interpretation (which is a big problem) while some other reformed people hide behind saying "it's impossible to tell if someone is part of God's elect" which is a convenient scape goat to completely avoid the topic altogether. And the people who confuse the most are the hyper free will teachers (like some entire sanctification methodists, some baptists, Pentecostals, etc) . You are correct, many protestants are genuinely confused about the state of their salvation at least once in their lifetime (I was when I was a teenager, under Arminian doctrine) while others have a false sense of hope because of hyper grace, easy believeism and once saved always saved doctrines taught by people like Charles Stanley (claiming that even atheists go to heaven if they previously professed Christ earlier in life) . I personally believe that after being truly saved it's possible to forfeit the gift of eternal life by returning to willful rebellion. Years ago I tried to explain this idea by saying that God is more concerned about the speed of our repentance, rather than the magnitude of our sin (isolating ourselves from God always leads to bad outcomes) . David sinned greatly, but his repentance was genuine, so God did not cast him out so to speak. When his day of reckoning came through the prophet Nathan, he admitted his sin and turned from it. But if someone is living in habitual, unrepentant sin (like living with someone they're not married to) then I think you can call that person a hypocrite without the fear of slandering them, because by definition they are not a Christ follower, regardless of what they claim. I think this is why Paul made it clear that those who live immoral lifestyles should be kicked out of the assembly, and not fellowshipped with. Gross immorality cannot be normalized and give people false hope. You ostracize them because you love them, and pray they return to their senses. In an attempt to be transparent, I respectfully don't believe that you are a Christian, as I view a large portion of core Catholic doctrines to be incompatible with biblical Christianity. However, that doesn't mean I hate or dislike you. I think the bible clearly teaches we should love our enemies. I enjoy honest dialogue, and on this topic (though I would disagree with your answer) you truly did identify a significant issue with protestant doctrine, and I will give praise where praise is due.
And to add briefly. I think why many protestants are confusing on this is because many of them teach that all sins are equal. They are equal in a sense that if you are not regenerated it doesn't matter if you are murderer or a simple thief. In that context, all sinners must pay their debt eternally, it doesn't matter who is worse. But if you claim to be a Christian, then kill a bunch of people in cold blood, something is horrifically off. It's not "oopisie, I sinned, sorry about that" . I'm not saying that murderers can't be forgiven. I just think protestants avoid the details like a plague and in stead just start yelling "faith alone! We're all depraved sinners saved by grace!" as soon as someone starts trying to explain that all sins are not equal and expose the condition of the heart. Interesting thought, I think some people interpret good works as the absence of bad works. But in the bible, can there truly be a good work outside of loving the Lord your God with all your mind, soul and strength? If you give all your money away, save people from slavery, never cheat on your wife and devote your life to ministry, you can still go to hell. I find that most organized religion doesn't deal with the heart issue. I believe someone can go to a Catholic preist for confession, and walk away just as guilty, because that person maybe doing that rote act thinking it justifies them, when they are not truly sorry for what they have done.
Why do we have to run the good race?
A Catholic Christian doesn't care about mockery, attacks and insults. he remains focus on the Word made flesh. He knows the person of Jesus Christ very well. He does not doubt or confused because he knows the Gospel and the teachings of the Church well. He knows how to detect the Word in the midst of words. He is focus on Faith, Hope and Charity and on the Holy Cross.
Faith without love is worthless!
a faith which works by charity is a faith which produces acts of love.