Thank you for the great detailed explanation of the updates! Suggestion: it might add even more value if the locations are shown in the map. Just to help the viewer imagine better how it is going to be. Good stuff!
Very good video. But you should have had an overlay of the city with markers that allows us to immediately see what part of the track the current photograph is for. Because finding what i want is quite difficult.
Very good shots of this huge project! But is missing is a general map of the project and sections as well. The name of the street of Ottawa you mention is only for residents of Ottawa who know those streets. What's about visitors tourist, or past residents who forgot Ottawa since years?!
Thank you for your comments. I will keep this in mind for subsequent videos. If you are interested, we do have an interactive map of the entire project here: map.railfans.ca (which probably should have been incorporated into the video).
--ERRATUM-- In the video, it is mentioned that the new East pathway that passes over Green’s Creek will continue to Jeanne d’Arc. This was an error, the pathway will run from Blair and end at the Sir George-Étienne Cartier Parkway. Existing pathways from there can be used to reach Jeanne d’Arc (via the parkway and not alongside the 174).
I would love to see the development plans for the areas around LImebank and Bowesville stations. There better be a ton planned. It saddens me when there is so much transit that's needed in densely populated parts of the city (like a Rideau st/Montreal Rd line, or a Carling line) and they build trams into cornfields, cow pastures and car loving suburbs. The airport line makes sense, but the line 4 there will be little to no foot traffic at either of those stations, they better have big park'n'rides and bus connections.
Great video, thanks for the update. I'm really impressed with everything to do with line 1 expansion. However, I am quite disappointed with the choices the more I learn about the line 2 expansion. Diesel-electric, single track, 3 trains from downtown to airport, etc.
While we’ll never know if they will do it, I believe there there are clearance allowances made for future OCS/pantograph electric operation so they didn’t shut the door.
Great video! Its excellent to see the construction coming along well. I have 2 questions. 1. Why was a cut and cover tunnel chosen for the SJAM section? It could have been cheaper to just build a surface section with the dip down under byron, not to mention better views for riders. 2. Why was it chosen to extend the east line in the highway median? That seems to defeat the benefits of fast rapid transit into more walkable community centers. Thanks!
For the SJAM, the plan is for the eastbound lanes to be relocated over top the O-Train tunnel. As well, they wanted to preserve sightlines and access to the water. For the East extension, any other alignment would have involved it affecting highway on and off ramps more greatly. As well being on one side or the other would impose a longer walk for those on the opposite side to reach it. For what the east extension is, I think this is the best compromise out of all possibilities (realistic ones or not). It is also following the old Transitway (95) alignment, in the median, rather than being on the shoulder lanes, so in that sense it is a drop in replacement.
I've been particularly noticing the bridge that replaces the Elwood diamond. It goes over the VIA rail line, which needs a high clearance. The VIA line is above the transitway, which passes over the pedestrian pathway, which crosses over the Sawmill Creek. As a result the bridge is very high, and somewhat reminiscent of a roller coaster track.
Agreed. From some angles it does appear very much like a roller coaster but from other angles the slopes appear somewhat smoother. In any case, I was thinking about it earlier and wondering how the actual ride will feel. Most will depend on the speed of the train.
While the station itself does not preclude a second platform, the underpass is not wide enough at this time to allow a second track. It would require the overpass to be replaced, and then a second track and platform to connect. -David
I was under the impression that the path over Greens Creek ended at Sir George Etienne Cartier pkwy. They should have a path that goes all the way to Jeanne d'arc. would make a much better (and flat) bike connection out of orleans, but I'm pretty sure they said it ended at the parkway, which is a shame.
Yes I make an error on this. The new pathways will run from Blair to Montreal to the SJAM. Agreed that it should run to Jeanne d’Arc but unfortunately it won’t directly. From the SGEC parkway you can follow the existing pathway network to reach Jeanne d’Arc by exiting the pathway once you reach Voyageur Drive)
I would anticipate the bus service would end once the train is open. However during overnight maintenance hours when the train isn’t operating, I would expect the bus to fill in. Same for if there is a service outage. But in the end that’s a question I never thought to ask to get an official position. I’ll keep it in mind for the next opportunity.
@@RailFansCanada So I guess, the current 97 Airport/Aeroport bus will be gone when Line 4 is in service? I think that is likely but I wonder if there will still be a bus route aside from service outages/overnight.
Cost involved in double tracking. Overall as part of Stage 2 there will be more double tracked segments than before but still not end to end. Hopefully a future expansion of the line will make it so. The biggest bottlenecks are the Dow’s Lake tunnel and the Rideau River bridge surrounding Carleton U.
@@RailFansCanada I understand the tunnel part but the bridges and other infrastructure had to be redone which is why I am asking questions. People on line 2 deserve same service as line 1 and 3.
Truthfully there isn’t a good reason why it wasn’t done. It was completely doable but at added cost. Probably reason enough for the decision makers to pass it up once again.
Thank you and great update. Out of curiosity, are any of the new stations have incorporate the potential to expand the station to accommodate longer train? I think before the pandemic, passengers express concerns regarding the 600 people capacity of the train don't meet the peak hours need. And that platforms are generally too small to accommodate peak hours passengers level. I am most interested to see if stage 2 have taken these couple issues in mind?
Hello. The platform length will be the same as the existing Line 1 stations. In general, all stations are protected to allow for an expansion at a future time from 90m to 120m. However the three downtown tunnel stations are already built to 120m. As far as Line 2, all the existing station platforms are being lengthened from 40m to 80m and the new ones are being built to 80m to accommodate the new longer FLIRT trains. Please note that the airport link will ha e 40m platforms at Uplands and Airport.
Ottawa councilors are dropping out of there job . 9 0f them retiring or getting out of being a city councillors. The problem is no one wants to take responsibility for the crap we got in ottawa for 9ver 2 billion dollars.
Honestly, it'd be forgivable if they just double tracked all the stations and kept single track between, because adding a track is much simpler than redoing a station, and waiting at a station is much better, because you can pick up more passengers while waiting for a passing train.
I know hindsight is 20/20 and who could have predicted covid but I feel like in the east that over pass behind costco could have been a cut and cover. Disruption wouldn't have been that bad during covid. It would just look cleaner. Maybe that's just me
You mean to dive down and underneath the westbound 174 to come up in the middle? Since they had closed and relocated the westbound lanes it probably could have been done. Although I’m not complaining about the elevated section. An interesting perspective and viewpoint while riding.
LRT vs. Metro: steel metal wheels vs. Rubber. taxpayers are hearing about maintenance woes in Ottawa; what are the downsides of rubber tires in Montreal ? (skipping the noise complaints in Montreal, the question is about costs)
Downsides are noise levels due to the tires and motors as compared to a more conventional system. Rubber tire allows steeper grades, higher speed in curves and lower vibration to surrounding environment. However as is the case in Montreal, it is entirely underground and never exits to the surface. This is due to the rubber tire system not being suitable for heavy snowfalls and weather events as steel wheels would be. Yes it is used in Paris and elsewhere but the winters here can be pretty agressive. In Ottawa, the winter snow events can also be significant and a rubber tire system would definitely encounter issues if travelling outdoors outside the protection of a tunnel. From a cost perspective, they are more expensive and are even more so a custom solution to the city than more conventional vehicles. Having said that Montreal does resurface their tires to extend their life. Brake shoes are wooden and soaked in peanut oil and made by the STM on site. So they can economize on those aspects. However the tunnels being entirely underground need constant maintenance and the natural water infiltration is expensive to deal with and channel away to drain. Overall it is my thought that building a system like Montreal is significantly more expensive as well as more costly to maintain over time. However being completely separated from the outdoor environment definitely helps with service delivery especially in the winter when surface transportation slows to a crawl.
@@Thatdavemarsh I can't remember where I saw it but there was a study done in the past few years and the Metro /rubber tires, produced significantly less airborne particulate matter than was deemed to be of a potential health concern than conventional steel wheel trains, when operated in tunnel or underground stations.
Great video, very informative! Thank you!
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.
Great info. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for the great detailed explanation of the updates! Suggestion: it might add even more value if the locations are shown in the map. Just to help the viewer imagine better how it is going to be. Good stuff!
Great suggestion! The map will be used in future videos of this nature.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
The advantage of these videos is that we get to hear the host's opinions of IKEA's food and Leon's warehouse. : )
We are big IKEA shoppers and while I can’t say I order the meatballs, I do enjoy the hotdogs.
Great update!
Thanks
Recently, I noticed one train running near the airport trillium line.
Very good video. But you should have had an overlay of the city with markers that allows us to immediately see what part of the track the current photograph is for. Because finding what i want is quite difficult.
Future videos will make use of a map. Thank you for the feedback.
@@RailFansCanada How kind of you to reply, and positively at that.
Very good shots of this huge project!
But is missing is a general map of the project and sections as well.
The name of the street of Ottawa you mention is only for residents of Ottawa who know those streets. What's about visitors tourist, or past residents who forgot Ottawa since years?!
Thank you for your comments. I will keep this in mind for subsequent videos. If you are interested, we do have an interactive map of the entire project here: map.railfans.ca (which probably should have been incorporated into the video).
--ERRATUM--
In the video, it is mentioned that the new East pathway that passes over Green’s Creek will continue to Jeanne d’Arc. This was an error, the pathway will run from Blair and end at the Sir George-Étienne Cartier Parkway. Existing pathways from there can be used to reach Jeanne d’Arc (via the parkway and not alongside the 174).
I would love to see the development plans for the areas around LImebank and Bowesville stations. There better be a ton planned. It saddens me when there is so much transit that's needed in densely populated parts of the city (like a Rideau st/Montreal Rd line, or a Carling line) and they build trams into cornfields, cow pastures and car loving suburbs. The airport line makes sense, but the line 4 there will be little to no foot traffic at either of those stations, they better have big park'n'rides and bus connections.
Great video, thanks for the update. I'm really impressed with everything to do with line 1 expansion. However, I am quite disappointed with the choices the more I learn about the line 2 expansion. Diesel-electric, single track, 3 trains from downtown to airport, etc.
While we’ll never know if they will do it, I believe there there are clearance allowances made for future OCS/pantograph electric operation so they didn’t shut the door.
Great video! Its excellent to see the construction coming along well. I have 2 questions. 1. Why was a cut and cover tunnel chosen for the SJAM section? It could have been cheaper to just build a surface section with the dip down under byron, not to mention better views for riders. 2. Why was it chosen to extend the east line in the highway median? That seems to defeat the benefits of fast rapid transit into more walkable community centers. Thanks!
For the SJAM, the plan is for the eastbound lanes to be relocated over top the O-Train tunnel. As well, they wanted to preserve sightlines and access to the water. For the East extension, any other alignment would have involved it affecting highway on and off ramps more greatly. As well being on one side or the other would impose a longer walk for those on the opposite side to reach it. For what the east extension is, I think this is the best compromise out of all possibilities (realistic ones or not). It is also following the old Transitway (95) alignment, in the median, rather than being on the shoulder lanes, so in that sense it is a drop in replacement.
Higher capacity than the 95 and other bus service, more frequent, and a new stop at Orleans Blvd (Convent Glen Station), which did not exist before.
I've been particularly noticing the bridge that replaces the Elwood diamond. It goes over the VIA rail line, which needs a high clearance. The VIA line is above the transitway, which passes over the pedestrian pathway, which crosses over the Sawmill Creek. As a result the bridge is very high, and somewhat reminiscent of a roller coaster track.
Agreed. From some angles it does appear very much like a roller coaster but from other angles the slopes appear somewhat smoother. In any case, I was thinking about it earlier and wondering how the actual ride will feel. Most will depend on the speed of the train.
Is the design of Walkey have fore thought to be expandable to two platforms someday?
While the station itself does not preclude a second platform, the underpass is not wide enough at this time to allow a second track.
It would require the overpass to be replaced, and then a second track and platform to connect. -David
I was under the impression that the path over Greens Creek ended at Sir George Etienne Cartier pkwy. They should have a path that goes all the way to Jeanne d'arc. would make a much better (and flat) bike connection out of orleans, but I'm pretty sure they said it ended at the parkway, which is a shame.
Yes I make an error on this. The new pathways will run from Blair to Montreal to the SJAM. Agreed that it should run to Jeanne d’Arc but unfortunately it won’t directly. From the SGEC parkway you can follow the existing pathway network to reach Jeanne d’Arc by exiting the pathway once you reach Voyageur Drive)
Will there be a bus to the Airport when the Airport spur is complete?
I would anticipate the bus service would end once the train is open. However during overnight maintenance hours when the train isn’t operating, I would expect the bus to fill in. Same for if there is a service outage. But in the end that’s a question I never thought to ask to get an official position. I’ll keep it in mind for the next opportunity.
@@RailFansCanada So I guess, the current 97 Airport/Aeroport bus will be gone when Line 4 is in service? I think that is likely but I wonder if there will still be a bus route aside from service outages/overnight.
I don’t see why there would be. The bus would go to South Keys so it’s essentially doing what the train will do.
@@RailFansCanada Makes sense.
I dont understand why line 2 is not double tracked the entire way. It is pretty much a shortsighted point of view.
Cost involved in double tracking. Overall as part of Stage 2 there will be more double tracked segments than before but still not end to end. Hopefully a future expansion of the line will make it so. The biggest bottlenecks are the Dow’s Lake tunnel and the Rideau River bridge surrounding Carleton U.
@@RailFansCanada I understand the tunnel part but the bridges and other infrastructure had to be redone which is why I am asking questions. People on line 2 deserve same service as line 1 and 3.
Truthfully there isn’t a good reason why it wasn’t done. It was completely doable but at added cost. Probably reason enough for the decision makers to pass it up once again.
Thank you and great update. Out of curiosity, are any of the new stations have incorporate the potential to expand the station to accommodate longer train?
I think before the pandemic, passengers express concerns regarding the 600 people capacity of the train don't meet the peak hours need. And that platforms are generally too small to accommodate peak hours passengers level. I am most interested to see if stage 2 have taken these couple issues in mind?
Hello. The platform length will be the same as the existing Line 1 stations. In general, all stations are protected to allow for an expansion at a future time from 90m to 120m. However the three downtown tunnel stations are already built to 120m. As far as Line 2, all the existing station platforms are being lengthened from 40m to 80m and the new ones are being built to 80m to accommodate the new longer FLIRT trains. Please note that the airport link will ha e 40m platforms at Uplands and Airport.
SO WHEN?
2025 the latest, it was advertised 2022 fall. lets be honest it'll be done 2024 and stage 3 when you're about to move
@@rahulgour3373 Their schedules are always wrong
Ottawa councilors are dropping out of there job . 9 0f them retiring or getting out of being a city councillors. The problem is no one wants to take responsibility for the crap we got in ottawa for 9ver 2 billion dollars.
It’s more than a missed opportunity 😢 they’re going to regret not double tracking the entire line.
Honestly, it'd be forgivable if they just double tracked all the stations and kept single track between, because adding a track is much simpler than redoing a station, and waiting at a station is much better, because you can pick up more passengers while waiting for a passing train.
I know hindsight is 20/20 and who could have predicted covid but I feel like in the east that over pass behind costco could have been a cut and cover. Disruption wouldn't have been that bad during covid. It would just look cleaner. Maybe that's just me
You mean to dive down and underneath the westbound 174 to come up in the middle? Since they had closed and relocated the westbound lanes it probably could have been done. Although I’m not complaining about the elevated section. An interesting perspective and viewpoint while riding.
@@RailFansCanada yup exactly but good point about having a different viewpoint
LRT vs. Metro: steel metal wheels vs. Rubber. taxpayers are hearing about maintenance woes in Ottawa; what are the downsides of rubber tires in Montreal ? (skipping the noise complaints in Montreal, the question is about costs)
Downsides are noise levels due to the tires and motors as compared to a more conventional system. Rubber tire allows steeper grades, higher speed in curves and lower vibration to surrounding environment. However as is the case in Montreal, it is entirely underground and never exits to the surface. This is due to the rubber tire system not being suitable for heavy snowfalls and weather events as steel wheels would be. Yes it is used in Paris and elsewhere but the winters here can be pretty agressive. In Ottawa, the winter snow events can also be significant and a rubber tire system would definitely encounter issues if travelling outdoors outside the protection of a tunnel. From a cost perspective, they are more expensive and are even more so a custom solution to the city than more conventional vehicles. Having said that Montreal does resurface their tires to extend their life. Brake shoes are wooden and soaked in peanut oil and made by the STM on site. So they can economize on those aspects. However the tunnels being entirely underground need constant maintenance and the natural water infiltration is expensive to deal with and channel away to drain. Overall it is my thought that building a system like Montreal is significantly more expensive as well as more costly to maintain over time. However being completely separated from the outdoor environment definitely helps with service delivery especially in the winter when surface transportation slows to a crawl.
Perfect answer. OTrain needs rail wheels on snow
I’d guess another downside to rubber is the accumulation of rubber dust. Wood shoes and peanut oil, eh?
@@Thatdavemarsh I can't remember where I saw it but there was a study done in the past few years and the Metro /rubber tires, produced significantly less airborne particulate matter than was deemed to be of a potential health concern than conventional steel wheel trains, when operated in tunnel or underground stations.