The Computer Chronicles - Computer Ergonomics (1984)
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- This episode examines the importance of ergonomic design in computing, from preventing repetitive motion injuries to more serious applications where a non-ergonomic design may lead to serious injury or death.
Special thanks to archive.org for hosting these episodes. Downloads of all these episodes and more can be found at: archive.org/det...
One of the reasons why I love watching this show is that I learn about the pioneers of the computer world. Never heard of Susan Kare before, and now I learn that she designed many fonts, buttons for Windows 3.0, card design for Solitair and worked for IBM, Sony and Intel as a freelancer. Wow, what a career!
@@breaddough-vk8gf Sure they were. If you see scissors as an icon for the "cut" command, that goes back to Susan Kare.
@@breaddough-vk8gf Well, maybe "pioneers" was a bit much in this context. I don't exactly know what I was thinking 2 years ago (plus, English is a foreign language for me, so sometimes I use the wrong word by accident). But it's not just the cut icon. That was just an example. The whole font and icon and button design of the early machines were invented by Susan Kare. And yes, those same icon designs are still used today. And yes, fonts and icons are important. It's part of what we call UIX today.
@@breaddough-vk8gf she designed icons and fonts for the Apple Lisa interface, which was one of the first computers with a GUI. That definitely qualifies as pioneering because it marked a fundamental change in human-computer interaction.
@@breaddough-vk8gf You are wrong. Icons seems simple to you because you do not understand the importance of metaphor in enabling users to reason about a domain.
@@ThePhiloctopus l have an application that is for measuring bt device battery level. the icon is a piece of bread. guess they dropped the ball🤓
Susan has very relaxing voice, i could listen to her for hours.
You're not the only one. Somebody uploaded this as ASMR:
ruclips.net/video/2L8HcEzSw9o/видео.html
Came here to say the same thing!
I saw this piece being shared somewhere as "involuntary ASMR" 😀
the rest of her ain't bad either...
They don't make TV shows like these anymore.. This show is so relaxing and informative..
you can write a note to yourself🤣
who is watching tv?
@@mirek190Netflix and Hulu originals are still TV shows
"an elegant 'TV show' for a more civilized age"
There is TWIT TV now. pretty good.
Susan Kare also did icons for Windows 3, including the card deck in Solitaire, which remained for many many years before it was changed.
She also designed every typography she shows in the last example
That Apple I is now worth more than my house.
My dad has one at his house. He lives in Palo Alto and was one of the first people to buy one back then. He said he’ll get rid of it when he dies. Which means it will be mine.
That wasn’t an apple 1 that was an apple ][ the apple 1 didn’t have slot cards
@@MagnedyneIt looks like an Apple II prototype board.
1984: "We worked very hard to go from 2 or 3 buttons on the mouse to only 1"
2023: "the 3 regular mouse buttons and mouse wheel are accompanied by 5 macro buttons, a full numpad, a dpi selector, an rgb quick change button and a button toggling the free mouse wheel"
"We have adjustable chairs, but I wonder if we need adjustable software." Classic Herb! Such a rascal!
And later Susan Kare demonstrated the Mac control panel, which let's you do exactly that.
: DD
So fascinating. Feels like watching people the people who invented something so basic and common today that it may as well have been the wheel. Also, Susan Kare: I thought I knew what cool was till I saw how she rocked that blue sweater.
common yes basic nope never computers are very complicated machines only getting more and more complicated with time
The 2 ladies... Well spoken , well thought out, great explanations.. would have love to have had these 2 as teachers...respect !!👍👍🇺🇸🇬🇧🇨🇦👍!!
Wow that Susan Kare has such a soothing voice.
@MichaelKingsfordGray Social skills aren't your forte are they?
@MichaelKingsfordGray No, definitely not your forte...
@MichaelKingsfordGray Nobody has a fucking clue what you're on about so go be crazy in the corner.
Thank you for the ASMR Susan
This show is a treasure trove
I love these shows. I wish I could go back in time. This however is at least close enough. 🥰
80s and 90s when computers were exciting, but limited.
I think I would feel homesick if I went back in time. These computers can't do anything, lol.. I'd miss my smartphone, series X, gaming laptop.. INTERNET.
@@VonDutchNL your smartphone and Internet aren't anything to be happy about anymore, you just don't know anything different
Stewart Cheifet’s comb over is epic.
"without having to have the person remember right or left" -- oh the irony. and years later Apple had to succumb to the 2-button mouse. ;-)
Modern magic mouse is still single click by default
it is kinda, "hey this computer is for dummies!". But it makes sense to first give them single button mice. Seriously today we usually have 5 button mouses here and there. My mouse even has a bazzillion buttons.
@Barry Manilowa Sadly it doesn't.. /looking at the first android phone, and the phones nowadays
I think they greatly underestimated the adaptability of human muscle memory. When you use a mouse you don't think I need to click right for the popup menu. You just think I need the popup menu and your body automatically right clicks.
@@PhoenixNL72-DEGA- You're mostly correct. Muscle memory does take over. However, muscle memory needs to be built up with time and practice, and so, it does need to be in conscious mind for the first few days.
1983, Xerox demonstrates the mouse and their printers on this show, fast forward one year, Apple is demonstrating the mouse on this show :) Steve was a master jigsaw solver, bringing all the pieces of tech from others together, which they all clearly didn't know what valuable tech they had... Then crazy Bill steals it all :)
half a mile of wire in it god damn
Steve wasn't anything special when it came to tech though
@@jr2904He understood the value and impact of it.
@@jr2904 HP's first effort with the LaserJet in '84 gave you two typefaces, no bold or italic, no LAN ability, no downloadable outline fonts, and only had enough memory to print a single ~4" x 3" bitmap area of the page.
The Laserwriter released by Steve's team in '85, while using the same CPU and Canon print engine, demonstrated Apple's tech jobs vs. HP's.
Same thing happened with MacOS vs Windows 1/2/3.
NeXT vs Windows 95/NT.
iMac vs. Gateway, Dell etc.
iPod vs. Zune.
iPhone vs Windows Phone/Nokia/Android.
iPad vs. Windows tablets.
Steve did OK for himself 1980 - 2010.
20:10 How do you flip back through the pages on notepad....we'll never know!
Yeah, pretty bad interface design right there.
9th flip goes back to page 1 of 8, I guess.
The Macintosh mouse was designed with one button so you don’t have to remember which button to press. But now the trackpad advance gestures are very hard to remember.
makes it easy for stupid people to use yay but I prefer my logitech mouse with 10 buttons it means no stupid person can use my computer🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don't think I've ever even used those trackpad gesture features. Tap to click and the two finger scroll, that's all I need.
@@MattExzy You may have used other gestures without even realizing it.
Random Access "EA's Archon"
So nostalgic. I used to play that game at least once a day for years on my C64. One of the all time best games I had on the system.
best theme song ever, and the gameplay wasn't bad
@@tachikaze222 Yeah it was. Still got that tune stuck in my head from time to time :)
Same as with the Fairlight, Druid and Monty on the Run themes.
LITERALLY 1984 . A actual dystopia !
Lol, not even close to now
I recall the ergonomic hazards from that era.
The fact that a person could keyboard words without pausing to "return the carriage of a typewriter" created problems with the hands, wrists, arms, and shoulders; as I did suffer in the 1980s when I got my first PC.
I've wondered how many workers in Silicon Valley [California] became dexterity disabled from keyboarding in the 1980s; as there were job postings from that era where high-tech companies advertised employment for data-entry positions; as I can still vividly recall the job openings requirement that called for 10K keystrokes per-hour. That's a tremendous amount of wear-and-tear to the hands.
thanks for keeping us up to date of the latest Computer trends
I got ASMR from Susan's voice. I wish there was a full hour video of her walking through Mac.
Oh man the sound of that old Mac keyboard sends shivers down my spine. Why don't they make those anymore? I want that sound when I type!
You should give a matias tactile pro a look. Having grown up listening to those keyboards, it doesn't sound exactly the same but it's the closest you can get without a time machine back to the 80's since they use the same ALPS switches that were in the apple extended II among others.
Buy a keyboard with cherry MX brown or red mechanical keys, have fun.
I use an old (1986) Mac keyboard with my modern Mac. Just get an ADB to USB converter and you're good to go. Works on PCs, too.
Nah you want the cherry MX BLUE for maximum click!
I usually love typing on quiet keyboards, but the sounds my old Amiga keyboards (500 and 600) make when I type, are music to my ears. It's just such a satisfying sound. So I completely understand your nostalgic shivers. :)
21:24 "two of Macintosh (advantages) is that things happen so quickly", how cute, imagine if they saw how things load today with SSDs.
I remember using computers with CRT monitors, I felt a lot of fatigue when using computers back in those days. After LCD monitors became mainstream starting in the early 2000s, I felt less fatigue when I used computers for a long period of time.
yeah and now today people are buying them again for the smoother fps they give🤣🤣🤣
@@raven4k998 They have faster refresh rates, and they cost more than modern monitors now.
The difference is also the type of phosphor used, and the refresh rate of the CRT. IBM's slow phosphor used in their green monochrome monitors for example helped against eye strain. And a newer color CRT that can run at 85 or 100 Hz is way better for the eyes than one flickering at 60 Hz.
@@McVaio The last CRT monitor that I had was a 17" NEC CRT Monitor rated at 85 hz back in 1997.
@@Ace1000ks19751982NEC monitors were very good. I'm sure it made a positive difference compared to the standard 60 Hz VGA monitors. I can't look at that 60 Hz flicker for long anymore.
That Apple 1 was built by Woz while Jobs was breathing down his neck
Right or left: a lot to ask in 1984
For Apple users it was, lol.
That Apple 1 they’re showing would be worth millions today
thats crazy to think..
It's an Apple II prototype though. Still very valuable.
Great ASMR with Susan.
10:18 that computer look like out of a soviet bunker,but excellent explanation by the lady.
I like Jerrys comment on how fast it loads applications - 30 sec off loading 4 lines in notepad - thats retro....
Nicolai Nielsen b
Nicolai Nielsen g
Good posture and keyboarding position make a big difference between being an accurate worker and being uncomfortable and careless worker. Fortunately, I still keyboard with 9 fingers and my right thumb. I need not rush the keystrokes, even if I were keyboarding dictation. Not only I am a fan and a growing computer user; I enjoy the stories that The Computer Chronicles produced, and that is why I am watching.
That screen looks like a porthole into the future
I wasn't interested in Macs all that much until 1987 when they got 13" displays and full color. Then I got VERY interested.
Speedy deflection during the long load time :)
The host’s combover is epic
I love watching these series and see how Apple is still a pionneer in computing world!
20:00 whenever she moves the mouse it sounds like someone is giggleling! It is so distracting xD.^^
Here I was thinking somebody in the studio was watching old fashion porn
What's shown here is not an Apple 1, but an Apple 2 prototype (the motherboard has no silkscreen mask but appears to be genuine Apple.) It clearly says Apple Two on the motherboard, and has hand wired RAM size select blocks. This is probably even rarer than the Apple 1. This appears to be a pre-revision 0 motherboard. White ceramic package PROMs and 6502.
4029 colours? Wow i'm in pressed!
HD anyone?
Not 4029, but 4096, 12 bits. Same as the Amiga that was introduced in 1985 as well.
@@ArumesYT Did you watch the HP segment? She said 4029.
Considering many PCs were still using monochrome Hercules graphics cards back then, that was a gigantic number.
@@Wizardofgosz I know what she said, and I know what the 2700 is capable of. It's a 512x390 pixel screen, 4096 color palette, 16 colors simultaneously.
Why do they keep saying terminal just say your tumputer
I think they really meant computer terminals rather than desktop computers.
I also ask that question. Maybe because terminals where popular before personal PCs, and people would continue using the older term? Similar like we say 'film'- even when film is no longer used for screening?
absolutely amazing. never seen technology so advanced as this before. is this programme from the future??!!
***** as I said it is absolutely amazing. no I couldn't design a computer chip. I don't work with computers to design one. :)
Wow these dumb fucks really can't take a joke can they
@16:45 thanks Susan; forevermore I will refer to it as a "Content Mac" in lieu of "Happy Mac".🙂
4:56 She was still in the profession 12 years ago. www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01449298408901778
12:12 It ignores left-handers and the disabled who couldn't reach over there.
Look how far humanity has come, from reporting about irritation due to screen glare to binge watching.😂
using the computer back then felt really special, you don't feel that even with Apple vision pro today
Not many people know that the original title of this show was "HURRY UP!"
Fun to see the early Macintosh as something new and fast. I remember those days fondly.
10:11 - This has to be the most shocking looking machine I've ever seen 😂😘
@Joseph the genesis to the iPhone Macs iPads :D
I wonder what it is, who made it? The risk drives suggest it's a full microcomputer but it could be a terminal with user disk access.
@@McVaio It's a HP 2700 terminal.
To my fellow retro computer video lovers, if you ran out of Computer Chronicles videos to watch, BBC Archive has some good ones too. For example, I love this 1979 episode about word processors: ruclips.net/video/b6URa-PTqfA/видео.html
Its crazy gow expensive software was back then! $300 for brokerage software, $300 or $400 for a organization program in a different episode and $50 or $60 for most little stuff. That's a lot of money back then.
less competition ---> more margin
In 2020 an Apple-1 computer sold for $905,000
Where the heck have they original founders uploaded??? Definetly not in internet, i am sure they have not make it to TVs
Returning to this episode 5 years after I last viewed it (my, how time flies!). I have to say, I wish Apple would have kept at least a second button their mouse. All the one-button crap did was hamper the Mac in both gaming and productivity, and they kept this up for so very long! And even now, they ship a weird mouse that doesn't really have a right mouse button since it's more of a touch surface on top of a mouse, so still there are limitations imposed that just don't need to be there. For instance, I don't know how you are supposed to do a simultaneous right and left click on it the way you so easily can on a mouse with actual buttons on it, and MS Word *for the Mac* has a function where you can hold both buttons to get finer detail when adjusting the position of a tab stop. That's one reason I still opt not to use the mouse that Apple ships with a new Mac.
I didn’t realise how good the macs were back then
They weren't. They were lacking in almost every aspect, which is why the original model failed in the market.
@@McVaio The Mac Plus was the first usable Mac, with 1MB RAM and SCSI for a proper fixed disk drive, yes.
@@tachikaze222 Yes, and the Mac II made the Macintosh platform a serious contender in the marketplace.
XY thumb wheel mouse. How cool!
Little did they know if be eating watching this on a computer in the form of a mobile handheld device. Steaming it over the internet, and without any wires.
When I usually think of Computer Ergonomics it is the design of the keyboard and the mouse for the personal computer system, not necessarily the graphics involved on the monitor screen. However making all things more user friendly is a very good idea. I considered getting a Macintosh computer years ago, but it was way too expensive for me to be able to afford. I eventually went with a Windows PC because I was more able to get it and it had variations of the features that originally attracted me to the Macintosh.
Man I remember when owning a computer was a class symbol .....around 95it became so every man
9:05 Why 4,029 colors? Why that instead of 4,096?
@16:13 this woman does what I do today every day but on modern computers
"adjustable software" =hide or show the various menu bars, edit the menu bars. Easy mode and "show advanced settings" toggle.
From when Mac was just a little baby, brand new to the world.
Nerds of the 70s and 80s were still marveling at the novelty of computing and this is why they chose to sacrifice productivity for the bling bling novelty of the mouse+windows and icons interface scheme.
Which imo was a terrible mistake
Susan Kare is the best :3
Was she stoned?
How did folks in 1984 even get by in such a Primitive World?
Barely...in 1984 i was in the 6th grade...by then COMPUTER CLASS was already a core course to take in junior high. We were DEF EXCITED for the growth of the computer world.
This is 31 years old and look at what we are at. If someone would bring out a modern laptop and show them it would be incomprehensible to the people just as if someone brought a computer 31 years from the future.
I don't know if we will still be here in that time.
no it wouldnt
I'm looking at macOS on my 13" MacBook Air and it still looks a lot like a 1984 Mac : )
The trackpad on Mac laptops came out in '94 so my 2020 MBA is an obvious direct descendant of PowerBook 500s from 30 years ago : )
Damn Stewart needed a big math book after that Mac demo
25:11 oh my god, that star wars system is so old as it's not working, or is it now?
8:10 he didnt want to say fat people
My favorite part was when Karen wasn't asking to talk too the manager
Apple computers: Designed for the 99%, priced for the 1%.
Apple products back then were priced more inline with the rest of the industry.
You couldn't get a cheaper 68000 based system until the Atari St and Amiga came out.
The HP 2700 they called an HP Orion was $24,000 when new.
@Joseph-ke3xc that rich neighbor still has more, so jealousy will happen
Damn, Susan's voice is like a lullaby
18:25 I found Sarah Connor quick call Skynet!!
Very very good
The "Apple I" is not an Apple I. It looks like an early prototype Apple II. Notice all the CERDIP integrated circuits and "patch" jumper wires on the board.
***** The "Apple I" was sold as a DIY Kit with no enclosure or keyboard and the user had to figure it out how to build it.
***** That is correct, however the board in the video is not an Apple I board. It is an Apple II board.
It is either a prototype or a bootleg. Either way someone decided to build their own custom Apple II in a wooden case.
*****
I think you are right because we can see several add-on slots over the board and I don´t believe that feature was added in the Apple I´s boards.
+Zorin the Lynx good points. this is very much relevant today when a true apple I would go for mega bucks , six figures even, vs a fake from a mass-produced model that would fetch next to nothing.
wow good catch. you're right though the 1 was basically a bunch of chips and a few big cylindrical caps
i need to get one of those keyboards...
I never thought about detachable keyboards being optional....
Isn't interesting that everyone was using their particular computers in the worst possible way? Worst workstation setups...
What changes would you suggest?
Very interesting video!
I love Archon (and Archon II) even today. I can win from either side.
Wanda is the mother of CSS
Wish i could appear there holding Galazy Z Fold 5
in this episode it seems like all the guests must have been sharing the same weed.. they all space out mid way thru their point.
northhankspin
80's mac hipsters lol
Shut up stoner. Nobody respects stoners.
Mac users in the 80s. Sheesh. Glad things are soooooo different now.
The money this computer cost I can buy a Mac and put one person to work.
I can spend the same about of money buying IBM clone and put 3 people to work. .... Go Figure !
1:21 My guy casually having an Apple II prototype sitting on his desk.
13:04 switch cameras.. computer starts talking
How the f*** did these people essentially pioneer the personal computer yet I’m over here having to act as the family tech support because their “home page” has gone “weird”… and by “home page” they really mean the desktop… why are the older generation so technically illiterate when it’s so easy nowadays but back then everything was very trivial and analogue.
Because computers were a very niche thing back then.
What you watch wasn't (yet) mainstream back then, took a good 10+ years to understand where the whole thing was heading. Back then (globally speaking since US believe it or not wasnt and still is not the center of universe) typewriters were THE thing.
Ordinary people can't just own a computer way back then unlike today so it wasn't a mainstream thing. If you're job isn't related to science, engineering or business then a typewriter is all you have to enjoy.
@@thesolitarymage5995 Yep! Back then the IBM compatible PCs with DOS , the end-users had to contend with cryptic eight-character length file names.
One unintended keystroke back in those days could result with a PC crash, as the _undo_ feature was still years away.
@@NickKont we've been the center of the world since 1945, I know that must be tough to deal with
See the guests are ergonomics experts and yet they slouch everytime they demo to use the pcs.
10:00 The Computer of the future. Nice brown color, very small screen, weighs more than 60 kgs. Now just create your own python code and wait 10 minutes for the processor to generate a menu.
I love '80s computer nerd chicks.
That HP Orion looks like a G3 iMac :)
The strangest thing is that it's really a HP 2700 terminal. My best guess as to why they called it "HP Orion computer is that, maybe, it was connected to HLH Orion minicomputer.
After seeing the two girls who went first their computer seems so ancient compared to the Mac.
It had high resolution color though. Try that on a Mac.
There were alot of women working in Tech industry back in the 80s
Mgmt, Finance, Operations, Legal, Taxes, Sales and Marketing. Yes, there is a Tech world outside of the Engineering department and the Pay is much better.
At the tech startup I was at in the 1980s, the marketing, accounting, HR, and even sales, were made up of women.
Karen is my cup of tea/profession :-)
If you say 'Ah' one more time...
hang on, i'm sorry apple did not invent the 3.5in floppy at all !!!!!
Not all discrimination is bad apparently.
Lol the early mice😂
10:34 wooa slow down there girl
lol