Thanks, yes it would be cool to see a downwind reefing at 20 knots or more. Reefing when the wind is high is always a bit crazy and any help would be nice. Thank you very much for sharing all your info.
My experience and boat is at the opposite end of the scale to yours - total noob on a steel Adams 40 mono - but hell I feel like I just learned more in 20mins than almost anywhere else. Really appreciated.
We attach the clew friction rings with a bullseye weave soft shackle, relevant only to older Dacron mains with cringles. Great upgrade. Also used the resin friction rings where there is less movement, they are a fraction of the cost of the alloy ones. Looks like we’ll be adding a second friction ring to our reef point. Thanks for the tip.
Great video. That car system should be industry standard. Yep, can confirm it's critical to watch out reef outhaul angle being too low. We started to ripped the #1 reef tack of our brand-new, expensive Doyle Stratis laminate on our boat Either Way by not paying attention to that. Doyle took care of it for free, but lesson learned. Cheers guys!
"Grunty, Butt Tonnes, Thingamy Gadget Jobby" technical terms that every sailor needs to know! Great video, would be very cool if you do a video where you demonstrate you and the crew reefing running downwind in a bit of a blow say 20 knots true at 110 apparent. Also interested to hear what you AWS your reef points are for your particular boat. Cheers!
Thinking for sure yes on really good oversized cars... not so sure of the locking car that then requires a Cunningham. Is there a big negative to having a loaded halyard?
@@KeithStrang There’s a lot of compression force getting concentrated from wind pressure across the whole sail into point loads where the halyard turns. The sheave at the masthead, the turning block at the mast base, and usually a clutch at cockpit. Very high chafing risk at those points. One partial solve is taking the halyard off a temporary clutch and onto a horn cleat during sailing.
My experience after 11atlantic crossings is that gaff rig is easier.i will be selling my seacracker 33 when I return to the UK and getting another gaffer.also a hollow leech and no battens would be better for long distant sailing
We got into a little bind with the lock engagement handles. They were free spinning in the wind at full hoist. On the way down, one tied itself into a knot around the diamonds. Then we realized why there was a tiny piece of bungee on it, to keep it loosely attached to the sail.
Hi, thanks for these great technical video's. can you explain the correct procedure on how to take a reef in heavy seas say from 2nd reef to 3rd reef without having to go upwind?
J'ai eu la chance de skipper un Soubise 49 équipé d'un mat tournant et effectivement la prise de ris au portant est un jeu d'enfant sans modification de la route, simplement en ramenant le bord de fuite du mat (sur lequel est greffé le rail) dans l'axe.
Really interesting, thanks 👍🏻. I'm guessing there's a business to be made consulting on people's setups.... I'd certainly appreciate some thoughts on mine when the boat's ready
For a short (double hand) crew on a performance daggerboard cat, what's your opinion on reef locks as a compromise to the fiddliness (and expense) of a main halyard lock system?
Starting around 14:00 you discussed swapping the reef lines on the aft end of the boom. I think the aft end of the boom is a very dangerous, difficult and precarious place to work - especially in storm force conditions when the need is to swap 3rd with 4th reef etc. and you need 2 hands and slack lines to operate a soft shackle. You’ve got some great ideas but I don’t like this one.
Do you need the second friction ring on the "new" setup you suggested for the reefing line when you can utilize the strop already there in use going "up" so the line would just go up to the existing friction ring and down again through the strop and out the boom and you would get the desired angle and tension.
Great video, as usual!!! :). FYI, there's a minor typo and maybe some words missing in your last sentence of the written Summary above if you want to fix it.
Shayne, at some point can you detail the soft-shackle as terminal for reef clew lines? Are you saying you sliced softies to the actual clew line? Or if it’s a separate soft shackle, what exactly is it grabbing? I just tie the line around boom with a bowline, which helps make sure we don’t cinch the reefing clew too close to the boom. But those knots get really loaded up…. Thx
I have always preferred a flat foot for the higher windspeed reefs. I generally want a flatter sail in 40 knots. Am I a bad person guilty of crimes against mainsails? I am just about to drop a lot of dosh on a new membrane main from evolution NZ, so I was interested to see your comments re Hydranet. It's almost the same price as membrane and I just can't make the stretch numbers work.
Great video as always! Have looked on mainsail track lock systems but seams to not be many solutions on the market, I have only found the karver kms lock. Do you know about any outer systems?
Check out our boat systems page on our website. We have a video on our facnor staysail lock youngbarnacles.com/facnor-halyard-lock/ The mainsail lock is my own design/build. We do have more on our forum if you are a youngbarnacles member
@@youngbarnacles Thank´s, realized now that my text was a bite confusing. What I ment was mainsail track lock. Do you know about any of the shelf solutions for mainsail track locks other then carver kms 30/40/50? I guess that design/build your own is not something for most people.
Antal, Karver and Rigging Projects do them. Karver is not reliable, Antal ones are usually too small and Rigging Projects are made to order but generally for bigger boats. The alternative is to set up your halyard on a 2:1 system and use a low stretch sk99.
Hey Frank, it's a custom made one. The ex- America's Cup carbon mast came with all its fittings including the halyard lock. Shayne modified the track and lock to work on Paikea.
What brand / model are you batt cars and main halyard lock? Are you aware of anyone having issues being unable to release the main halyard lock? It worries me that things tend to go wrong at the worst times and I dont want to be stuck with too much sail up. I know you said it is a pull to engage - but when it is locked how do you unlock?
Pulling the mainsail up releases the lock. It remains unlocked until they manually engage lock it again. Understand your concern for anything that locks on the top of the mast. I'm guessing the locking car (overbuilt?) would be more reliable than a main halyard & sheave system under constant tension.(?)
Because the halyard has no load on it the chances of something happening that would cause it to fail is minimal. Your other option is no lock and run a 2:1 system with SK99 Mainsail halyard
I've got a question: why use the elastic band pulling up to keep the top car from locking? It seems like you've created a single point of failure; if that elastic band fails when the top car is locked in, after the handles at the reefs points are pulled, you wouldn't be able to get the sail down without going up the mast. Are there designs where the top car lock wants to remain unlocked naturally (e.g., with gravity or by design), without the elastic band, and you use a low load tension on a cord (e.g., handles at reef locations) to keep the car locked? That way, if the cord fails, the top car returns to being unlocked without relying on the elastic band. I understand that you can check the band often, as a hazard control, and it may not be likely to fail; but it seems like situations where you've reefed, are situations where you'd have the highest concern for the sail remaining up in a locked position due to the elastic band failing.
The system is a pull to engage system, that means it takes input to engage the lock and will always automatically unlock when all fails. The elastic cord ensures disengagement not required to disengage. The movement of the car going up disengages the lock, the elastic cord the stops accidental re-engagement. This car is the number one proto type of this system. In new versions we now have over centre mechanisms to ensure good engagement and disengagement. Like all things mechanical it requires maintenance and servicing, and that ensures reliability just as much as how the system is set up.
@@youngbarnacles Copy. That makes sense. Pulling the halyard to raise the car disengages the lock, and the elastic provides redundancy to the design to protect against reengagement. Thanks for the explanation. If the halyard failed, would there be a way to disengage the car lock?
@@youngbarnacles wow, that is amazing. I've been on a few (charter) boats where I was able to winch down the main downwind but I've never seen one fall down under load.
I'm thinkn this channel is more for intermediate/advanced sailors who have some idea what's being said, not noobs trying to learn. Why mention 26mm ball bearing cars, & "it cost a lot of money vs the little ones people complain about", without showing a visual side by side comparison, the benefits of spending extra (i.e. @12:55). Same with the lock mechanism, what's it look like in action, not just, ya sail might get caught up there if not setup properly. I wasn't aware those items were a thing until now. @4:20 like what? Anyhow, I'm off to get more details elsewhere..
Thanks, yes it would be cool to see a downwind reefing at 20 knots or more. Reefing when the wind is high is always a bit crazy and any help would be nice. Thank you very much for sharing all your info.
yes we are crossing the Atlantic again soon and will try and get some footage to share the process
Love your set up. Excellent demonstration and explanation of how to do it right.
Great idea of storing spare battens in the boom bag!
keep all sorts of stuff in there, customs would never look, too high for dogs to sniff ;-)
My experience and boat is at the opposite end of the scale to yours - total noob on a steel Adams 40 mono - but hell I feel like I just learned more in 20mins than almost anywhere else. Really appreciated.
That's really good to hear 👍
Really enjoying your videos and explanations! Thank you for sharing with the sailing community.
We attach the clew friction rings with a bullseye weave soft shackle, relevant only to older Dacron mains with cringles. Great upgrade. Also used the resin friction rings where there is less movement, they are a fraction of the cost of the alloy ones. Looks like we’ll be adding a second friction ring to our reef point. Thanks for the tip.
Great video. That car system should be industry standard. Yep, can confirm it's critical to watch out reef outhaul angle being too low. We started to ripped the #1 reef tack of our brand-new, expensive Doyle Stratis laminate on our boat Either Way by not paying attention to that. Doyle took care of it for free, but lesson learned. Cheers guys!
Nice one team thanks for the info
"Grunty, Butt Tonnes, Thingamy Gadget Jobby" technical terms that every sailor needs to know! Great video, would be very cool if you do a video where you demonstrate you and the crew reefing running downwind in a bit of a blow say 20 knots true at 110 apparent. Also interested to hear what you AWS your reef points are for your particular boat. Cheers!
Thinking for sure yes on really good oversized cars... not so sure of the locking car that then requires a Cunningham. Is there a big negative to having a loaded halyard?
How do you go reefing when running deep?
Yea... I had to keep pausing to google if some of those "technical terms" were related to sailing, or just kiwi dribble.
@@KeithStrang There’s a lot of compression force getting concentrated from wind pressure across the whole sail into point loads where the halyard turns. The sheave at the masthead, the turning block at the mast base, and usually a clutch at cockpit. Very high chafing risk at those points. One partial solve is taking the halyard off a temporary clutch and onto a horn cleat during sailing.
My experience after 11atlantic crossings is that gaff rig is easier.i will be selling my seacracker 33 when I return to the UK and getting another gaffer.also a hollow leech and no battens would be better for long distant sailing
Smart to carry a spare batten in the boom bag.
We got into a little bind with the lock engagement handles. They were free spinning in the wind at full hoist. On the way down, one tied itself into a knot around the diamonds. Then we realized why there was a tiny piece of bungee on it, to keep it loosely attached to the sail.
Hi, thanks for these great technical video's. can you explain the correct procedure on how to take a reef in heavy seas say from 2nd reef to 3rd reef without having to go upwind?
J'ai eu la chance de skipper un Soubise 49 équipé d'un mat tournant et effectivement la prise de ris au portant est un jeu d'enfant sans modification de la route, simplement en ramenant le bord de fuite du mat (sur lequel est greffé le rail) dans l'axe.
Really interesting, thanks 👍🏻. I'm guessing there's a business to be made consulting on people's setups.... I'd certainly appreciate some thoughts on mine when the boat's ready
For a short (double hand) crew on a performance daggerboard cat, what's your opinion on reef locks as a compromise to the fiddliness (and expense) of a main halyard lock system?
Starting around 14:00 you discussed swapping the reef lines on the aft end of the boom. I think the aft end of the boom is a very dangerous, difficult and precarious place to work - especially in storm force conditions when the need is to swap 3rd with 4th reef etc. and you need 2 hands and slack lines to operate a soft shackle. You’ve got some great ideas but I don’t like this one.
What is the source for the spectra sheathing? What kind is it?
Do you need the second friction ring on the "new" setup you suggested for the reefing line when you can utilize the strop already there in use going "up" so the line would just go up to the existing friction ring and down again through the strop and out the boom and you would get the desired angle and tension.
We need a friction ring to stop chafe on the strop
You said you could set it up for single handed and not go forward…but then how to you engage the Hal year during lock?
Hi, Thanks for the informative vids! Do you have any thoughts on boom roller furling??
Run away from roller boom furling!
Great video, as usual!!! :). FYI, there's a minor typo and maybe some words missing in your last sentence of the written Summary above if you want to fix it.
Thanks for the heads up 👍
Shayne, at some point can you detail the soft-shackle as terminal for reef clew lines? Are you saying you sliced softies to the actual clew line? Or if it’s a separate soft shackle, what exactly is it grabbing? I just tie the line around boom with a bowline, which helps make sure we don’t cinch the reefing clew too close to the boom. But those knots get really loaded up…. Thx
I splice the end of the reef line and put a soft shackle on that
I have always preferred a flat foot for the higher windspeed reefs. I generally want a flatter sail in 40 knots. Am I a bad person guilty of crimes against mainsails? I am just about to drop a lot of dosh on a new membrane main from evolution NZ, so I was interested to see your comments re Hydranet. It's almost the same price as membrane and I just can't make the stretch numbers work.
Even in those high winds you don't want it too flat. You still need some round in the foot. Around 1%. It's still a sail and needs some sail shape.
@@youngbarnacles 👍
Hi, will you show how to furl a gennaker without “pockets” that becomes hard to unfurl? We love that sail but often have problem when unfurling
I think we have some footage somewhere. We'll try out something together for you
Looks like you kept the boom from the original Catana rig. Is the new mast the same overall height as the old mast? Thanks.
It's a Catana 42
Yes it's the original Catana boom. The new mast is 17m same height as the old one
Great video as always! Have looked on mainsail track lock systems but seams to not be many solutions on the market, I have only found the karver kms lock. Do you know about any outer systems?
Check out our boat systems page on our website. We have a video on our facnor staysail lock youngbarnacles.com/facnor-halyard-lock/
The mainsail lock is my own design/build.
We do have more on our forum if you are a youngbarnacles member
@@youngbarnacles Thank´s, realized now that my text was a bite confusing. What I ment was mainsail track lock. Do you know about any of the shelf solutions for mainsail track locks other then carver kms 30/40/50? I guess that design/build your own is not something for most people.
Antal, Karver and Rigging Projects do them. Karver is not reliable, Antal ones are usually too small and Rigging Projects are made to order but generally for bigger boats.
The alternative is to set up your halyard on a 2:1 system and use a low stretch sk99.
@@youngbarnacles Ohhh, that makes a little more sense. Thanks for the Q Isak. So what you have is a custom one off, not available? Patent?
This video talks a bit more about what we made youngbarnacles.com/sea-trials-with-our-new-mainsail/
Can you tell me what make of halyard lock you have? Thanks, Frank.
Hey Frank, it's a custom made one. The ex- America's Cup carbon mast came with all its fittings including the halyard lock. Shayne modified the track and lock to work on Paikea.
I've been searching around for those. Facnor makes one very similar to what they have on Paikea.
What brand / model are you batt cars and main halyard lock? Are you aware of anyone having issues being unable to release the main halyard lock? It worries me that things tend to go wrong at the worst times and I dont want to be stuck with too much sail up. I know you said it is a pull to engage - but when it is locked how do you unlock?
Pulling the mainsail up releases the lock. It remains unlocked until they manually engage lock it again. Understand your concern for anything that locks on the top of the mast. I'm guessing the locking car (overbuilt?) would be more reliable than a main halyard & sheave system under constant tension.(?)
Because the halyard has no load on it the chances of something happening that would cause it to fail is minimal. Your other option is no lock and run a 2:1 system with SK99 Mainsail halyard
I've got a question: why use the elastic band pulling up to keep the top car from locking? It seems like you've created a single point of failure; if that elastic band fails when the top car is locked in, after the handles at the reefs points are pulled, you wouldn't be able to get the sail down without going up the mast. Are there designs where the top car lock wants to remain unlocked naturally (e.g., with gravity or by design), without the elastic band, and you use a low load tension on a cord (e.g., handles at reef locations) to keep the car locked? That way, if the cord fails, the top car returns to being unlocked without relying on the elastic band. I understand that you can check the band often, as a hazard control, and it may not be likely to fail; but it seems like situations where you've reefed, are situations where you'd have the highest concern for the sail remaining up in a locked position due to the elastic band failing.
The system is a pull to engage system, that means it takes input to engage the lock and will always automatically unlock when all fails. The elastic cord ensures disengagement not required to disengage. The movement of the car going up disengages the lock, the elastic cord the stops accidental re-engagement. This car is the number one proto type of this system. In new versions we now have over centre mechanisms to ensure good engagement and disengagement.
Like all things mechanical it requires maintenance and servicing, and that ensures reliability just as much as how the system is set up.
@@youngbarnacles Copy. That makes sense. Pulling the halyard to raise the car disengages the lock, and the elastic provides redundancy to the design to protect against reengagement. Thanks for the explanation. If the halyard failed, would there be a way to disengage the car lock?
so, you don't have any lines to pull the sail down right? it just falls down when you ease the halyard, even downwind?
Yes.
@@youngbarnacles wow, that is amazing. I've been on a few (charter) boats where I was able to winch down the main downwind but I've never seen one fall down under load.
Well there is a bit more technique involved in downwind reefing. It doesn't just fall down but it can be done without using a winch
Pros and cons of in boom roller furling?
I'm not a fan of in boom furling unless you are on a mega super yacht and need it because there is no alternative
Why not just move the reef point aft on the boom?
It would make the problem worse, not better. He needs the reef lines to pull down to the boom, not aft.
⛵🌏⚓⛱🩳👙🩱📸🐠🎣🌴🤿🦀🐟💧🦈☀️🇦🇺
I'm thinkn this channel is more for intermediate/advanced sailors who have some idea what's being said, not noobs trying to learn. Why mention 26mm ball bearing cars, & "it cost a lot of money vs the little ones people complain about", without showing a visual side by side comparison, the benefits of spending extra (i.e. @12:55). Same with the lock mechanism, what's it look like in action, not just, ya sail might get caught up there if not setup properly. I wasn't aware those items were a thing until now. @4:20 like what? Anyhow, I'm off to get more details elsewhere..