For those who think the game length is fine as is, more power to you, keep playing the standard way. But there are definitely people who love this game yet don't have 2 hours to play. (The box says 90-150 minutes, so please don't tell us we're playing it wrong.) A few things we've tried (and not necessarily all at the same time): start with an extra 10 appeal, start at 2CP, start at 2 rep, and start with either a partner zoo or university. None of those break the game, but they give you a little boost to get the game moving a little quicker in the beginning.
Richard, we had the same struggle with game length and chucked a few ideas around but they mostly broke the game. The one we now use every game is: everyone starts at level 2 conservation. The last bit of set up is each player chooses to either upgrade a card or get their 2nd pawn (as per the space), then we start the game. Nothing is broken, everything else is done as per the rules. (We always choose to upgrade a card)
A Prelude equivalent would have made the difference between me getting ark nova to the table at least twice as often. It is a hard commitment to sit that long with a game.
For me and the Mrs it's a 45 minute game. I taught it to my neighbor who only plays games during the summer and it was only and hour her first game. The only time I've ever seen people take longer is when they forget it's a race.
A prelude would be great - not necessary if you don’t feel the need, but super helpful for speeding things along for those who don’t like the length! But the need for a prelude pales in comparison to what this game really lacks: Dinosaurs 🦖😄
I think the designer suggested starting at level 10 on the ticket track for a quicker game (second player then starts at 11, etc). Not sure if it will make a huge difference, but we played that way in our first couple of games to help with the time issue. Still even though it runs long, we enjoy the entire time we play (two-player only) and the solo game is also snappy and really fun.
A prelude type of expansion would have been great. Also more wave icons. In two 2 player games we only flipped 2 in the second game and none in the first.
I love animal sims and i like aquatic settings even better (oceans is my favourite game and big fan of aquatica and abyss) but i am i with you Arc Nova seems too long and making that longer sounds insane :-p Still good for some fans
"Hard to make time" for a game just means you won't wear the game out and will have more appreciation for it when you do have the time. Some game nights are for Ark Nova. Some are for MLEM Space Agency.
The problem isn't making the time itself, it is having that time AND wanting to fill it with Ark Nova. If I have that amount of time there are so many more games with which I'd rather fill that length of space. Don't get me, and others with this similar opinion wrong, we want to play Ark Nova, we just wish we could in half the time. It isn't worth the length of time it takes to play, if that makes sense. It isn't even an egregiously lengthy game, it's just too long for what it is.
@@rahdo I don't think it's "a bunch of cards", but yeah, some of those "have less than x amount of appeal" cards would probably need to be removed in that instance. But I feel like any other speed-up-the-game mechanisms/expansions/etc. would similarly mess with some balance aspect. At least this method is quick and easy to implement right now without further expansions.
oh yeah, that's why i reckon it needs a proper pass from the developers to take into account the balance of the game. i should stress (as i did in the video), we still love the game, and love it even more with the expansion, but prelude made a HUGE different ont he accessibility of Terraforming Mars, and it could do so for AN as well i think :)
Rahdo, how long are you and your wife taking to play a 2 player game without the new expansion? I think two players is the only way i want to play this game.
I don’t want to invalidate feelings that this game is too long, but every single time I’ve ever seen a game of this run long, it’s because people don’t play it effectively. This is not an engine builder where you are setting up infrastructure and slowly improving. This is a race and should be played as a race. If you’re taking more than 4-5 breaks in the game, you probably aren’t being as efficient as you could be.
nobody races more than me... i'm always jumping the farthest i can in maracaibo, making the biggest moves possible. but in our experience, this one still goes on loner than it needs to (for our tastes) :)
I think there is a misconception of the length of game concern. I, and I assume others who feel the same, don't think the game length is overly long compared to some big heavy euros, it's just that Ark Nova doesn't have the right to be in that same company, if that makes sense. The problem isn't with games that take this long to play, it's just that Ark Nova shouldn't be one of them.
not exactly. it puts us 1/3 or 1/2 way down the ramp, skipping the first few steps of the ramp, which are generally the least interesting parts anyway :)
On the contrary, the end game or later rounds of Ark Nova is just easier, having more resources and having access to everything makes this part of the game easier, thus quite dull. However with less budget, less options, the opening and early game is tighter and thus feel much more interesting. Also your decisions early game matter more, where late game is a bit of a lucky card draw based. A prelude option may sound good for people who prefer shorter games but I’d rather have the design team invest their time and creativity on a different path, that deepens the game and enriches our experience. Marine was such an expansion.
For those who think the game length is fine as is, more power to you, keep playing the standard way. But there are definitely people who love this game yet don't have 2 hours to play. (The box says 90-150 minutes, so please don't tell us we're playing it wrong.) A few things we've tried (and not necessarily all at the same time): start with an extra 10 appeal, start at 2CP, start at 2 rep, and start with either a partner zoo or university. None of those break the game, but they give you a little boost to get the game moving a little quicker in the beginning.
Richard, we had the same struggle with game length and chucked a few ideas around but they mostly broke the game. The one we now use every game is: everyone starts at level 2 conservation. The last bit of set up is each player chooses to either upgrade a card or get their 2nd pawn (as per the space), then we start the game. Nothing is broken, everything else is done as per the rules. (We always choose to upgrade a card)
A Prelude equivalent would have made the difference between me getting ark nova to the table at least twice as often. It is a hard commitment to sit that long with a game.
yeah, the time commitment is worth it, but still hard to make that time!
For me and the Mrs it's a 45 minute game. I taught it to my neighbor who only plays games during the summer and it was only and hour her first game. The only time I've ever seen people take longer is when they forget it's a race.
I agree with the Prelude expansion Fred and maybe some official drafting rules. Include some official drafting rules too.
The beginner map is the prelude.
A prelude would be great - not necessary if you don’t feel the need, but super helpful for speeding things along for those who don’t like the length!
But the need for a prelude pales in comparison to what this game really lacks: Dinosaurs 🦖😄
I think the designer suggested starting at level 10 on the ticket track for a quicker game (second player then starts at 11, etc). Not sure if it will make a huge difference, but we played that way in our first couple of games to help with the time issue. Still even though it runs long, we enjoy the entire time we play (two-player only) and the solo game is also snappy and really fun.
A prelude type of expansion would have been great. Also more wave icons. In two 2 player games we only flipped 2 in the second game and none in the first.
yup, more would be better. i coudl see saying as long as they're out the speed up the card shifting, as opposed to only when they're drawn!
I love animal sims and i like aquatic settings even better (oceans is my favourite game and big fan of aquatica and abyss) but i am i with you Arc Nova seems too long and making that longer sounds insane :-p Still good for some fans
"Hard to make time" for a game just means you won't wear the game out and will have more appreciation for it when you do have the time.
Some game nights are for Ark Nova. Some are for MLEM Space Agency.
The problem isn't making the time itself, it is having that time AND wanting to fill it with Ark Nova. If I have that amount of time there are so many more games with which I'd rather fill that length of space. Don't get me, and others with this similar opinion wrong, we want to play Ark Nova, we just wish we could in half the time. It isn't worth the length of time it takes to play, if that makes sense. It isn't even an egregiously lengthy game, it's just too long for what it is.
Just start everyone 10, 20, 30, etc. tickets ahead to speed up the game.
that messes with the balance of a bunch of cards
@@rahdo I don't think it's "a bunch of cards", but yeah, some of those "have less than x amount of appeal" cards would probably need to be removed in that instance. But I feel like any other speed-up-the-game mechanisms/expansions/etc. would similarly mess with some balance aspect. At least this method is quick and easy to implement right now without further expansions.
oh yeah, that's why i reckon it needs a proper pass from the developers to take into account the balance of the game.
i should stress (as i did in the video), we still love the game, and love it even more with the expansion, but prelude made a HUGE different ont he accessibility of Terraforming Mars, and it could do so for AN as well i think :)
Rahdo, how long are you and your wife taking to play a 2 player game without the new expansion? I think two players is the only way i want to play this game.
oh it's close to a 2h game for us, and that's with me racing to finish the game
@@rahdo I could live with that but not much more, which is why I don't think I can do this at more than 2. This is a good one for BGA.
I don’t want to invalidate feelings that this game is too long, but every single time I’ve ever seen a game of this run long, it’s because people don’t play it effectively. This is not an engine builder where you are setting up infrastructure and slowly improving. This is a race and should be played as a race. If you’re taking more than 4-5 breaks in the game, you probably aren’t being as efficient as you could be.
nobody races more than me... i'm always jumping the farthest i can in maracaibo, making the biggest moves possible. but in our experience, this one still goes on loner than it needs to (for our tastes) :)
I think there is a misconception of the length of game concern. I, and I assume others who feel the same, don't think the game length is overly long compared to some big heavy euros, it's just that Ark Nova doesn't have the right to be in that same company, if that makes sense. The problem isn't with games that take this long to play, it's just that Ark Nova shouldn't be one of them.
Disagree. Prelude type would ruin the game. Just play a different game
why do you feel that it can't be done?
Ruin the game for you, perhaps. Actually make the game playable for many of us. And that's exactly what we've done, gone on to playing other games.
Because thee game is the ramp. Doing prelude removes the ramp. @@rahdo
not exactly. it puts us 1/3 or 1/2 way down the ramp, skipping the first few steps of the ramp, which are generally the least interesting parts anyway :)
On the contrary, the end game or later rounds of Ark Nova is just easier, having more resources and having access to everything makes this part of the game easier, thus quite dull. However with less budget, less options, the opening and early game is tighter and thus feel much more interesting. Also your decisions early game matter more, where late game is a bit of a lucky card draw based.
A prelude option may sound good for people who prefer shorter games but I’d rather have the design team invest their time and creativity on a different path, that deepens the game and enriches our experience. Marine was such an expansion.