Should Americans Move to The Netherlands?
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Should Americans Move to The Netherlands?
Are you an American considering a move to The Netherlands? While it can be tempting to uproot and start anew in this picturesque country, there are a number of factors to consider before making the move. In this video, we'll explore eight reasons why it's probably unlikely that Americans should move to The Netherlands.
We'll dive into topics such as the highly competitive housing market, which can make it difficult and expensive to find a place to live, and the challenges of integrating into Dutch society. We'll also discuss The Netherlands as a less "convenience-culture" based society, and the general lack of space in this densely populated country.
While The Netherlands certainly has its charms, it's important to weigh the pros and cons before making a move. Join us as we explore the realities of life in this beautiful country and help you make an informed decision about whether it's the right place for you.
00:00 Welcome to Woerden!
02:44 Lack of Space
05:07 Competitive Housing Market
07:25 Not a European Vacation
09:07 Challenging to Integrate
11:15 Salary Expectations
12:55 We Love Woerden!
14:14 Not as Progressive as You May Think
16:19 Citizenship Issues
17:35 "Convenience" Culture
19:03 Should Americans Move to The Netherlands? Probably Not.
If you like our video please subscribe for more food, travel, and life as an Expat! / tandtgodutch
We're Tracey and Travis, an American couple who moved with our Miniature Husky, Tabasco, from our home in Houston, Texas to the city of Leiden, The Netherlands. We love food, travel, history, and exploring our new home. We hope you enjoy us sharing our adventures all around The Netherlands with you!
If you'd like to see more:
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9:40 Dutch people love to meet new people and make new friends; unfortunately rotten potatoes who don’t want any immigrants exist everywhere in the world…
#LoveYourVideos!
We’re so lucky to have a welcoming community via RUclips and in real life. Thank you so much for watching our journey!
i think alot of people are fine wih immigrants, just not to many
The Dutch don't hate immigrants or anything, but with the high influx of refugees and Eastern Europeans (migrant workers) the housing-situation is quite problematic. It is either impossisble to find a home or it is too expensive. And especially the Eastern European migration had a downward effect on our salaries. So: life is more expensive and pay is going down. Not the best combination. Unfortunately this is EU-policy.
Yeah I personally love getting to know people from other countries, I love learning about their cultures and traditions. The more, the merrier! The Netherlands would be really boring if we didn't let any immigrants in.. Maybe I'm a little biased as the daughter of an immigrant but I feel like most of my peers feel the same way, even fully Dutch ones. It's mostly the far right FvD fangirls and boys who don't wanna let anyone in 😒
@@RookieAssassin It's not as much the immigrants, imho. It's that they expect the Dutch people to adapt to them instead of the other way round.
If you move to a different country, it SHOULD be obvious you need to learn a new culture and most importantly, a new language.
If I moved to a new country I'd need to learn the culture and language asap, else I'd be kicked out just as fast. Sadly most immigrants think it's normal to keep their own language and expect the dutch people to speak it for them. That's perfectly fine for a temporary situation, but when they stay, they should learn the language at least imho.
Culture is debatable, and religion should be up to them for sure, but if you want to make friends or live somewhere, you need to learn the language, is that really too much to ask?
As for FvD fanboys or -girls, that's just wrong. To lump everyone who voted for them in the same group on everything is not fair. There are many things going on, not just immigrants. I chose them, because I agree with a lot of the things they say, but not all things. The world is NOT black and white, it's a million shades of grey and it all sucks in some way or another
You cannot compare salaries just by looking at the numbers. A Dutch salary package includes paid holidays, vacation days and, very important, paid days during sickness. You can be sick up until two years before your employer can terminate your employment. A pension scheme and social benefits when you loose your job. And sometimes compensation for your health insurance. If you add this all up, I think this balances the difference with an American salary.
2 years? that's a bit crazy tbh. Imagine you have a small business with just 2 employees, and one of them falls sick and keeps being sick for 2yrs straight. Way to bring everyone down with them🤌 It would certainly almost ruin the small business you have.
@@NoctLightCloud thats the risk you take when starting a business this is something everyone knows
@@ricardoebbers5154 That's a crazy risk to take, having to suffer for someone else's illness for THAT long. I'm not saying anything against a few days or even weeks, but up to 2yrs is extreme. Come on! Especially since so many are lamenting how small businesses are dying out in city centres💀 No need to add such an extreme pressure to the system.
@@NoctLightCloud That's why it's mandatory for businesses to be insured for employee sickness. So the business doesn't pay anything near the full cost, the insurance company pays for most of it.
I think the absolute number one priority (apart from finding a house) is learning Dutch. That will a) ease the integration threshold and b) learning a new language changes your mindset. You'll understand the locals better, not just because you can converse in their language, but because that language will alter how you look at life and the world. Just because of idiom and sayings.
Yes, Dutch is a must. We’re about to start our second round of Dutch classes and are so excited. It makes such a world of difference.
The DuoLingo app can also help with learning languages, including Dutch.
@@TAndTGoDutch Knowing you live in Leiden i have a tip for you for if you ain't got something to do nexst Saterday, This Saterday its the Rijnsburgse Bloenen corso, a parade of wagons decorated with flowers and each wagon expressing a theme. It's kind of like the New Orleans Mardi gras parade but then all the parade cars are build up from flowers. It starts at 1 o clock when it;'s Leaving from the flower auction in rijnsburg then driving trough Rijnsburg and Katwijk towards Noordwijk where the parade will stay parked on the boulevard for the rest of the weekend so that if people can't watch the parade on saterdays they can still see the corso on sunday in Noordwijk.
I live here and been studying Dutch pretty seriously. I am reading books, listening to the radio, but still just getting started. Speaking to people who have learned Dutch, it definitely helps, it’s a must, but I hear more mixed opinions about its usefulness than you would expect. I feel for me the big motivation is expanding work opportunities and even then it’s limited given my field but I do feel it’s a responsibility and I enjoy the language but yeah, it’s also a mixed bag.
Dutchie here. Thank you for this realistic reaction. This is the reality in The Netherlands. Enormous housing shortage. There are people in their 30's who still live with their parents because they can'nt find a house. We have to thank our center/right kapitalist government for this. They thought Trickle Down economics would solve this. But it didn't. The rich are only making themselves even richer and nothing trickles down... The people who are very conservative and say to you 'Go Home' however are a minority. Those are our ultra rightwing idiots. The majority is not like that. Learning Dutch is indeed THE way to make friends.
Great reaction! ❤
You are experiencing the typical dip after a period of excitement of emigrating to a new country. After this phase, when holding on💪comes the phase of acceptence and normalisation of being part of a new society 😊
Integrating means adapting. So yes, the language is very important to literally join in. Making new friends later in life happens often when you have children and when they go to school and you meet other parents. Or when you join a club. Mutual interests like sports, drama, music, your neighbourhood’s citizen group or whatever, creates a bond that could easily lead to real friendships.
The Black Forest Family RUclips channel did a great video on income and cost of living between Germany (similar to NL) and the US. Even when salaries are much lower, living in Germany doesn’t put you in financial dept.
The Dutch aren’t tolerant, generally. They are OK, or indifferent, as long as it doesn’t affect them. If you want more laissez faire you might be better off in a different part of the NL, like the south.
It took Amazon so long to establish themselves over in the NL because there were other online retailers that dominate the market. You’ll not find the US 24 hour shopping culture in the EU because it’s too expensive to treat employees as slaves.
You do make a valid point that life in any western culture is hard these days and that reality kicks in when it gets normal. Just like any other relationship. Emigrating is like a divorce and you’ll have to find new happiness elsewhere.
The tolerance comment is spot on! Us Dutch people have the reputation for being tolerant, but it indeed is more indifference, and once something affects us a lot of Dutch people will become VERY intolerant VERY fast (I hat it, but it's true)
Living in the Netherlands isn't 3asy. Not even when you live there for over 30 years 😊
Agree
@@Sense008 But that's what tolerance means, it's not the same as acceptance.
First time commenting. Am stoked you appeared in my RUclips suggested videos. This heartfelt video share resonated: particularly the integration part. I miss community most of all. First year here was the last of the lockdowns. Then I got Covid first time I went into Amsterdam. 🤦🏻♀️😄 Anyway... I'm still feeling stuff out, learning and taking my time.
All that said, as a Californian Expat, I am 100% glad to be here everyday. I do not miss driving in traffic. I do NOT miss American fast food and Star*uck's on every corner. I do not miss the closed minds and baked-in racism that's come out the closet and erupting throughout the nation worse than a coronavirus.
Here's some of what I love about living in NL:
- The rain. As a pluviophile: the rain is utter and complete joy. I love how the Dutch bicycle in storms and don't let the wet hinder plans.
-I love how people smile and say "Goedemorgen." The simple acts of kindness and the generosity of Spirit I've experienced has been so good for my heart.
-Public transportation. Everyone from all tax brackets utilizes it and it's reliable.
- New Year's. NEIGHBORHOOD FIREWORKS ARE BETTER THAN DISNEYLAND! ❤
- I love the museums and access to art.
-I love that I'm a hop, skip and a jump to many places that I'd otherwise have to try to jampack into a 1-2 week trip. I can take my time. Take the train and go slow. I love SLOW.
I could go on and on. My advice is to pro and con list it all. Watch T&T content and absorb the truth and fun stuff they provide. The Netherlands is a fantastic place to live. Acclimate, be respectful/ humble/grateful and above all be able laugh at yourself and you'll do just fine.
Thanks You Two! Have a blast in Italy!
Wow! How lovely are you, so glad you are happy in our country..😊
@@Lilygirl283 Aww. 💛🙏 It hasn't been without it's challenges but yeah, my gratitude to be here grows by the day.
As for the size of houses and gardens: we are a pretty small country with a large number of people living in it, so it is impossble to all have larger houses and gardens, there simply is not enough space. Texas is approx 16 times bigger than the NL while the NL has more than 10x as much habitants per square km as Texas. So that’s pretty dense 😊❤
it's all fun until you get a drug addict as a neighbour, or some family with 4 kids on 60 square meters who are pretty traumatized by deadbeat parents, and act accordingly. Both things have happened to my parents here in Austria in a 52 appartment complex. We had to call the police multiple times because of domestic violence and techno parties and excessive screaming (not shouting, but screaming) at 2am~5am😅 Their problems suddenly become your problems as well when you live wall-to-wall. I would love to be able to live in a proper detatched house in the future. That qualify of life must be amazing! Appartments aren't long-term solutions and are often a lottery/mixed bag. Can be downright depressing, especially when you're sleep-deprived and have to act like nothing has happened the next day at work. And it keeps repeating.
@@NoctLightCloud bro why you comenting everywhere you obv dont know what you're talking about
@@ricardoebbers5154 it's my experience, the hell do you mean "know what I'm talking about"? And I can answer wherever I want. I just dislike people praising appartments over detached houses. The quality of life is vastly superior in the latter one. What do I "not know what I'm talking about"?
About space in the Netherlands: I live a 30 minutes drive from Amsterdam. The house were we live in is 5 x the size of our apartment in Amsterdam. The garden is about 900 m2. We pay less for our detached house than we payed for an apartment in the city of Amsterdam. We have an unobstructed view and plenty of space around us. Living in the countryside and nice towns to visit in a short distance. It exists. Where you live in Leiden, it is really overpriced.
we do have a shortage in housing, but not in jobs...
Opening hours differ throughout the USA as well. None of the nearby shops in NJ - including Walmart - are not open 24 hours a day. Most close at 10 to 11 pm and open at 6 to 8 am. I’m now in Casper, Wyoming and also the fast food chains like Burger King, McDonald’s and Arby’s close during dthe night. Burger King in dining from 7 am to 10 pm and drive through till 11 pm. Don’t expect 24x7x365 options around the USA everywhere.
Post-Covid, a lot of the 24 hour shopping/dining stopped, but you can still find it in small pockets. But yes, certainly not everywhere.
For reference: I live in a village in the randstad (which is the more densely populated area that was mentioned). The randstad usually is a bit more progressive which means, for example, that supermarkets cary more vegan products and shops have longer opening hours. The shops in the shopping center are opened from 8ish ‘till 6 pm (18:00h) and the supermarkets are open from 7:30 to 10 pm (22:00h). Those opening hours differ on national holidays. For Kingsday the supermarkets closed earlier and the greengrocer and bakery weren’t open at all. Also, things like next day delivery are not big here and flash delivery services have only entered the market a couple of years ago. I’ve never noticed how much this was bound to culture but it is very interesting to see.
"To survive is to convive". If you don't understand this concept and believe that "competition" is the best way to survive, then don't emigrate to the Netherlands. I believe that solidarity (with the poor, underprivileged, or the sick) is the biggest difference between Europe and the US. Europeans earn less because they choose to contribute to the lives of the less fortunate as a matter of decency.
Yes. Because European countries (in majority) are socialists.
We want to live in countries with happy people around us and that can be done only when we all pay for those who are unfortunate.
In my view, the biggest difference is how we consider weapons, and how that works out in the statistics.
These are great insights, thanks for keeping it honest guys. I’ve visited Texas only once (Austin) and went to Spain last year and YES SPACE IS DEFINITELY smaller in Europe but it’s not too bad.
Really good structured vid you guys!
Telling it how it is. You are more Dutch than you think 😉. All valid points. Don’t get offended by people complaining about immigrants. It’s the same principle as with internet trolls. They can’t handle stressful situations in life and take it out on others. You are good people respecting others. You are great role models. Never forget that. ❤❤❤
Thank you Michel! You’re the sweetest! ❤️
@@TAndTGoDutch you're welcome :) my (also Texan) wife commented below with her experiences here in the Netherlands.
WOW! Everything you say could have been googled before leaving 'your precious' US. Please note that this is just another proof of the ignorance of Americans.
@@ceeceescholts5563actually most of the points could not have been googled and that is why they made this video. The the whole thing about forgetters taken up homes and jobs percentage wise doesn’t make since. Our family in the last 6 years moved in USA from Georgia to California back to Georgia then to Delaware and the whole job/ housing has been a huge unaffordable limited mess. Something else is being setup and foreigners are to small of a percentage to create such problems.
Nice to see Woerden in a vid. I spend most of my childhood growing up there 😊. A very good and realistic video.
I appreciate your observations and advice. Food for thought
You’ll have to come back in October for the Koeienmarkt, one of the oldest in the country. It is on the first Wednesday after October 20th, it has been held every year since 1410. And did you try a Kristaljon? A raisin bun with cinnamon and sugar, with cream butter. It is a traditional Woerden delicacy. About the shop opening times, there is a general rule (do not apply for supermarkets and DIY stores): opening hours, weekdays from 9:00 till 18:00, Saturdays 9:00 till 17:00, Sundays closed, in villages there is also Friday evening (Koopavond) from 18:00 till 21:00 and in cities it is Thursdays (Koopavond) evening from 18:00 till 21:00. Sundays are mostly closed, but there are municipalities where there is one Sunday a month (Koopzondag) when the stores are open, mostly from 12:00 till 17:00. Supermarkets are open every day, generally from 7:00 or 8:00 till 21:00 or 22:00, with the exception of Sundays when they open at 12:00. DYI stores and garden centers are open weekdays from 8:00 or 9:00 till 21:00 or 22:00, Saturdays from 8:00 till 18:00 and Sundays from 12:00 till 18:00. This is a general rule, so opening hours do vary between municipalities, chain stores and mom-and-pop stores. I always check on the website of the store/shop I want to go to for opening hours on holidays and Saturdays.
Very informative video! Things you really should think about before moving. I’m glad you pursued and made it work 😊
Buncharted did the maths on income and spendings and even though they make somewhat less here in the Netherlands, they spend less too... certainly on things like health insurance, internet and cell phone coverage (and they probably do not even have those bundled yet so they could save more). No, you can not wake up at 3:14 am and walk to a store and buy whatever you think you need. We Dutch tend to be asleep at that time ;) Still: you can get pretty much everything here when the shops are open. And it is not as bad anymore as it was 30 years ago when all shops were just closed on Sundays. Supermarkets are open every day from 7 am to 10 pm and that should be enough for everyone to get their groceries in.
As for making friends: most of that happens at school, at work or at the various sports and leasure communities.
As for the trolls... I feel sorry for them actually. If they think they could afford the place you live in, or could do the work that you do... but usually they are the kind of people who have little to no education, and a low paying job because of that. We EU countries have some strict restrictions as to who can work and live where. Same as the USA really. I just could not go to the USA and expect to find a job there and a house and all, and the same is true for the reverse. If you are from outside the EU and have a job here, it means they could not find someone within the EU to do that job for one reason or another. Before a company can employ someone from outside the EU, they have to prove that they have searched hard and long enough to try to employ someone from within so... But it's facts like these that the trolls just do not know, or are terribly misinformed about.
I live in the more liberal Rotterdam but I work in the surrounding villages like Albrandswaard, Barendrecht and Ridderkerk and these three have more in common with countryside USA than the Netherlands to be honest. Ridderkerk is in fact in our bible belt. And as a mail carrier, I can certainly see that by the kind of mail people recieve. Lovely small towns though ;)
Have fun in Rome. Keep doing what you are doing and stay amazed at this wondrous place us Dutchies call home.
Buncharted! They're a great example of how your integration to Dutch (or any immigrant) life is so very affected by your attitude.
Hi T&T, this video from a few months back popped up on my youtube. And I can relate to your points of strongly considering if you make the right decision, moving to The Netherlands.
I am Dutch and me and my family took the opposite way, moving from Holland (The Hague area) to NA (not US but Canada, which in many ways is like a lill brother to the States). Our main reason for leaving Holland was your no.1 reason: Space! Both physical (living) space and mental space. We felt that living in the Netherlands was comprising us. Everything is in "hokjes" (boxed in, in expectations from others and in pure physical space).
We decided to make the leap across the pond, but it took us 9 years of preparing and saving enough money to cover the first period (4 months) of living in our new country.
Now, after 7 years, we have more solid footing, than when we first started. We both have a FT job and kids are settled in their schools; plus we were able to buy a house. All these things take time and money and will not come on their own.
But we are still Dutch. Like you mention: be prepared to lose your citizenship, if you want to become a Dutch citizen. which has its benefits but its flaws as well, since you are not allowed dual citizenship. For us, this is a tough decision, here in Canada. But we decide that it is in our best interest to keep the Dutch Citizenship and not become Canadians. Others have to make that choice for themselves when they move to The Netherlands.
So for anyone that wants to make the leap: absolutely be prepared as best as you can be. Visit the country, the city or area that you'd like to settle in and be prepared to go somewhere completely else. Go with a plan and have the finances to back up your plan.
Like you say: it is not a vacation, it is your life. Time passes bye and all depends how you adapt to your new life.
I believe you guys found your new life in "het Hollandse", please keep sharing your experiences.
12:54 I wonder about the cost of living, can you maintain the same standard as you did in the states with the pay cut you had to take?
the big joke is everyone in the world thinks we are liberal.. we are not. most Dutch people are reserved and conservative, but reasonably tolerant
And about making friends: you can make Dutch friends here, but it's not easy, the Dutch language/culture/reservation is really a thing.
All fair points, and it sucks that you have experienced the "unwelcome" part. I am afraid that though by far the most people will be very welcoming, the group that is negative won't go away. We really need a way to deal with the polarizing effect of social media (the whole world, not just the Netherlands) and fake information.
Still hope to bump into you two at some point.
Have a great day \o
Maybe you received this advice already, but in my experience a very good way to make friends in NL later in live is to join a sport club (i.e. football, tennis etc.). Especially if you take some group lessons or join a team. It asks some commitment, but i believe commitment is regarded very important in friendship here. If it does not feel sincere or like you aren't that invested, it might put people off (because they do invest their time and energy in the friendship).
Should you already have some 'warm connections' don't be shy to invite them over, just keep in mind that you also suggest a time and date, otherwise it is likely never going to happen 😂.
Very nice synopsis, you guys. For me it'll be 24 years living/working in the NL end of this summer, and I first came here as an international educator. So, I've been around too, but what I hadn't reckoned with was grandchildren. And I have one in the States whom I rarely see but am hoping to spend next summer with...and I can't wait. They grow up while we're gone, as well as the rest of our families and friends who move on with the bigger portions of their lives that we are no longer personally involved with simply because we're here and they're there.
You're also spot on about the five-year integration. I had to hire an immigration lawyer because our salary dipped below standard and so my temporary residency was denied when it was up for renewal, which I then legally protested to be able to continue working. Still, I could only do so using my then Dutch partner, now husband's, company tax license. Later, thankfully after I became a citizen, the Dutch tax system insisted that I have my own, my own company and license, as they concluded that my career didn't fit in with my husband's company description. Another issue I hadn't reckoned with. To me such an issue would've appeared absurd in the States, but this is a bureaucratic country. And, yes, a beautifully green one at that too. So, let us know when you're ever in Zeeland and we'll show you around. Cheers
P.S. I forgot to mention that I couldn't figure out that saying on, was it a mini manhole? 'Waar rook is, is een klungel aan het werk'. So, I asked the Dutchman, who said, loosely translated, 'there's no smoke without a fire', which is fitting for the theme of what you've been discussing...meaning know what you're getting into before plungeing into it. 😜
Actually there is a very identical expression in Dutch : Waar rook is , is vuur. But here it is paraphrased to : If you see smoke.... It's because some incapable person is doing a shitty job..
@@Dutchbelg3 Yes, that too - LOL. I often feel this way when trying to follow RUclips directions on a DIY project...way over my head and thus doing a shitty job. 😅
This was informative and useful. Thanks for the great video!
All valid points :) I think this would be really helpful for someone considering making the jump.
Very good, you discuss the rough edges of the Dutch society. 👍👍 We are trying, but it isn't Utopia yet. I hope you will stay happy in NL!
So far, so good! Thank you so much for watching! ❤️
@@TAndTGoDutch It will never be Utopia. Dass war einmal. That's over. Gone. Kaput.
Good video! It’s like my mom used to say, when I (from Rotterdam) felt like moving to a village: "It’s not like a holiday; check it out on a rainy day in november, at 4 pm". In other words, when you can’t see anything picturesque, because it is dark and gloomy., and your daily commute depends on this one bus, that at the best of times has a twice per hour schedule.
Yes! Love that saying, so much truth to it.
Travis and Tracey, I live in Australia, and housing is a nightmare here, not enough houses available, we have a big rental crisis, unfortunately it's a big problem everywhere..love your videos😊
Thank you so much! We appreciate you!
Thanks, very honest view of us: the Dutch, trying to live/survive, without being dramatical! Most of us are happy! 👍🥂🫶👌
I truly hope you both find your way here in the Netherlands.. personally i think you guys are really adapting and no matter where you go.. there always will be.. how to say it nice... people that think they can say anything to everyone.. .. just try to ignore them. I totally understand you miss things form back home.. specially family but also simple things as food etc. Some things can be resolved.. there is an expat store in the Hagua and Wassenaar if im right.. Kelly's ? or something like that. It might help with some cravings but its not cheap. Anyway.. please keep showing more from your life here and Live your life as you want it.. ignore the ignorant ones, they are everywhere across the globe. HUgssss
Well said, very true!😊
Thank you for this. It helped me confirm my decision to move forward with my plans. Because most of this is nonissues for me.
Your journey is very Interesting to watch. Thanks for this very illuminating video. I hope you'll grow accustomed to this strange country, and that this country will treat you kindly. Greetings from Delft!
About the salary part… how is the cost of living in the Netherlands 🇳🇱 compared to the U.S. 🇺🇸? Because that could also set off the difference in salary.
In the late 90s-2004, i lived in Roermond,
Maasbree and lots of time in Amsterdam. Best time of my life.
Is kamernet a legit site to find apartments in the netherlands?
Well, like it or not, you're becoming Dutch. Finally a video where someone gives their opinion the Dutch way: this is the way I see it, period. I'm not a fan of video's where people constantly qualify their meaning with lots of sentences that all come down to the same thing: I don't want to offend you. You're just sharing your feelings, it won't offend me. I also won't like you anything less for it, even if I disagree. I hope you'll find a home here!
Thank you for posting useful and informative content about NL..You both have such great chemistry..I truly enjoy watching your youtube channel...
We truly enjoy having kind people like you here. Thank you so much for your continued support of our channel!
Learning Dutch makes a lot of things a lot easier
Absolutely, don’t think that all Dutchmen speak proper English.
My husband and I are wanting to start a business in the Netherlands and this video has helped a lot! We know what city we want to place the business, but we don’t quite know what city we want to live in. Any suggestions
We’re so glad you found our videos helpful. It completely depends on what your business is and your personal preferences. We like a lot of quiet, but still not too far away from bigger cities. We also prefer to be close to the airport, as we love to travel, which is why we chose Leiden.
Kinda dpends on your budget tbh. The West Randstad Area (Amsterdam/Rotterdam/Utrecht/Den Haag) is the most densely populated part of the country and since we have a housing shortage all over the country, but especially in the Randstad prices are absolutely ridiculous, the suburban towns in the Randstad are a tad more affordable, but only a tad (and not nearly as charming), If yoou head to the East and South prices are lower and cities like Zwolle, Groningen, Leeuwarden, Enschede or Masstricht might be interesting (though that also depends on the kind of business and what are prerequisites for that). i live in Drenthe province in the rural east of the country, and it's lovely and quiet, it's also not nearly as well served by public transport though. It really depends on your preferences. If city life is what you want but not in Amsterdam, I'd research Groningen, Enschede and Zwolle for bit. All three are small provincial cities with a very nice old city centre which is culturally very active (especially Groningne and Enschede becasue of major Universities in those cities)
Think you nailed most of the good reasons not to move to NL and in particular, the biggest one being the lack of space and housing.
I live in Woerden and as a follower I realise I could have bumped into you somewhere in de city, and then could have treated you a coffee. Love your videos and hope you enjoy your trip to Rome 😊
This video about moving to Netherlands is the best I've seen. Practical points about the struggles, emotional, financial, etc. I really enjoyed it. Obviously i subscribed! Good luck!
Good for you. These two are a treasure for (I hope to call) our country .
Also consider this: in the Netherlands you can’t find a McDonald’s on every Main Street, don’t have a Walmart nearby and cant buy Starbucks coffee in 20 places in every town.
Exactly. But in return, better quality food, supporting more local shops, and better coffee by a landslide. It’s a win for us.
oh no why not more big brand capitalism
You forgot that a lot of stores are closed on Sunday and Monday
@@user-pv5pb7kn7k what are you talking about, this isnt 2005, supermarkets are all open on sunday, aswel as stores like gamma. What more do you need?
@@r.a.h7682 NOTHING is EVER closed on Monday in the US except banks on Holidays 😂
Just realised that I haven't seen new uploads for a time.
I hope all is fine. I miss your uploads and views about your lives in the Netherlands.
Hopefully till soon again 👍
Hey welkom to the netherlands. So at this time it's not easy to come to the netherlands because of the house shortage, but if you are looking go live in the smaller cities, it is cheaper, more space and don't forget it is a small country so by car you can drive it in 3hrs. So every city is close by. The east is usefull because you have space close to germany, 2 hrs away from belgium en 1.5 to most big cities. And it is the most green. Keep informing you doing great🙃. Have a nice weekend
I lived abroad half a year and I didn't miss Holland. I went back to my family and friends ànd the places/memories of my youth. The space here is limited which was not the case in earlier days. Americans think big. More opportunities in the States I gather. Hope you feel welcome here!
Perhaps more opertunities in the USA. But if I feel more protected and respected in this country
..
@@Hensepens64 And much more freedom in almost every aspect here (as proven by many rankings) plus people are happier, healthier, I can go on and on. But hey, isn't it good if more people advise US'ians not to come, and have a wrong opinion? Most of them are too attached to their car and will ruin the balance (in terms of mobility). So I'm happy if someone is spreading ungrounded criticism.
Yeab, MAGA-land is heading towards Utopia no doubt (being cynical)
Not the first person who mentions this: the way you apply realistic point of view, combine complaint with nuance and compromise; these are very very Dutch traits.
Just like many other viewers, I do hope you end up staying, but only if you think it will in the longer run keep your quality of life improved.
Having had a US salary and Dutch salary (for the same job and title) I know the difference between the two. I like that you pointed out what you potentially can get back out of it. Often overlooked are both the adjusted cost of living and income levels as well as "how much money do i get over the back of someone else". Income and salary, especially as I stayed in San Fransisco seemed so ridiculously stark in comaprision with whats right outside the building. A lot of it felt like a zero sum game, and honestly, the math usually didnt work out unless others were gamed out or even scammed out of their money. After experiencing all that, apart from the social benefits, I got much more ... understanding of the lower salaries.
This of course also completely disregards that i was working 60hs+ a week with basically zero vacation days vs 32h and 30 vacation days and unlimited sick days here...
The onyl other thing I'd like to recommend is: try to find at least one Dutchie who is willing to switch to Dutch by default speaking to you. We have a lot of expats in our friend group, but they only truly became a part of it after being able to speak enough of the language. There are plenty of Dutchies willing to force you and everyone around them to respond to you in Dutch...!
Either way, see you next Saturday! ❤
Even as a native Netherlander it's hard to make new friends. We're just like that.
Great video as always. If you're interested, Money and Macro did a comparison between the US and NL economy wise and their conclusion was that (comparing all costs, benefits and salary) you actually have less to spend in the US! This is (as you already mentioned) due to healthcare cost, social welfare, schooling etc.
That said, all your points are valid of course;-) Culture and living are different from country to country. For example, I love Ireland very much, but it wouldn't be a great place to live for me due to my background/what I'm used to.
That said, it really sucks that you had to deal with housing scams etc. I think I've mentioned it in a comment before, but living in the Randstad is the worst of NL imo. It's expensive, loud/offensive here and there + indeed not that much room. Ppl in general are less friendly (just walk on a bicycle path in Amsterdam and you'll get cursed at!) You really should hang around in the East a bit more and you'll the massive differences. Cities like Zutphen, Deventer, but also the smaller villages like Laren (Gelderland) or Doorweth: the atmosphere is different. Also, in the countryside (especially the Achterhoek, Drenthe, Friesland ao) you'll likely find the space you've been looking for.😉
There are many nice ppl who would have no issues to have you in their friend-group. You're just in the more difficult are of the country. Keep at it!💪I do hope you'll find your own nook/niche and will feel more at home. May home-sickness be a thing of the past!
Do you think that the convenience culture that you're used is positive or negative? Does it impact your stress level or work/life balance?
Hope your fertility journey is still going well!
Mooie video, i am sorry to hear people still make bad comments. And it makes me sad to hear it still stings. If you ever come back to Brabant , we will make it Gezellig!!
When you compare salary, do you also compare cost of living? Meaning housing, insurances (particularly health insurance cost) food etc? In the US you get taxed less. I think it really depend what area in US you compare with which area in NL. Generally speaking you don’t move for the money to NL (from the US), from other European countries it can be a benefit. Cost of having multiple motorized vehicles is much higher in NL vs US. And a free standing spacious house in a nice area is pretty much unaffordable in NL or you both need a very high paying salary. But that is due to limited space and housing market. The houses are build more to last though and build less to “show how big it is” while it’s actually not, just wide and not deep. Personally I settle for a well build bricklayed house any day over the wood and dry wall ones.
Having lived abroad I found that it’s always hard to befriend locals. They already have their circle of friends and relatives, and they don’t want to invest time in a friendship with someone who may move away in a few years.
My wife is from Brasil and moved over here 6 years ago. She studied Dutch about 15 hours weekly and her Dutch is close to perfect, being on an age of 57 now. Because of this and her great personality she has a bunch of very good Dutch friends. Her son, the same song.
If you want to live like back home, go back home. Don't expect Wendy's, Walmart here.
One big difference between The Netherlands and Korea that you mentioned is that Korea is all about convenience. You can get most things next day delivery and they are super nice and professional about it. Maybe I should make a response video about Korea. Sounds like fun!
Yes, as a Dutch person I have had expat friends, but at some point they always leave so you also need to make new friends, which is hard. That's why we do not invest too much in those relationships. Sorry. I hear a lot of complaints on that part, but this is the reason and you need to learn to acknowledge that point of view.
Besides, we distinguish hugely between friends and acquaintances. As an expat, you need to keep dat in mind.
you can always move back ?
Love to you guys! Just for who you are!!
The honeymoon is over? I've lived here for 45 years (originally from Wichita,KS.) and have gone through several phases. The first is always euphoria, the beauty of the country, the bike culture, the good health care, the liberal outlook of most people, the old European architecture, the museums, the cafes, etc. Slowly you realize that you are a foreigner and you will always be a foreigner (I was fortunate to have acquired Dutch citizenship 25 years ago when it was permitted to hold two passports). i speak fluent Dutch, but I am still a foreigner. You have to be able to live with that, integrate as best you can, My social life has always revolved around the ex-pat community, but certainly not exclusively. I had terrible homesickness for years and probably would have moved back to the U.S., but my child was born here and her father was not interested in leaving Amsterdam. When I'm outside, I hear so many Americans (or Canadians) moving around the city, and they're not tourists. Somehow I feel a resentment about that, maybe because I feel Dutch and many Dutch people complain a lot about all the foreigners/immigrants in their midst. You are right, the reality of living in the Netherlands is complicated and it takes years to realize where you are and what it means. I enjoy your blog, keep it up!
I haven't seen any new uploaded since a while, do you know why?
These are all very realistic and reasonable points, but I also think these apply for almost any foreign country you move to 😉. I think every country has benefits and disadvantages. Making new friends is also hard for me as a Dutch person 😉.
Space depends where your live in The Netherlands and what you can spend for a house.
I like the closing shot on the swings. Way to get your cinematography on.
You don’t know how happy that made Travis. He is super happy with that shot!
What about cityzenship/New couple loan for new place and marriage?
Good advice
Fair assessment. Also it rains a lot. And while your salary will be 3/4 of that in the US, a (small) car will cost you 1.5x as much, so you will have to learn to ride a bike (in the rain). Your neighbors are part of your Dutch life. If you are used to burning leaves in the spring, without regard for your neighbors, Nederland is not the place for you (You'll live, but it won't be gezellig).
Having grown up in both the US and the Netherlands, I understand that there are some things that I would miss about the US But I also miss my Dutch home. A bit if both please
All depends on which enviremont you fall into in terms of occupation and background.
You're adapting your own cirkels.
Even the Dutch themselves have differences.
I know several Americans who have seen and lived in different European places and they all confirm that The Netherlands of all E.U. countries is the most 'american' relatively spoken.
I have to add that most of them are musicians and artists of all kind and most are intellectual leaning.....
About the Dutch being loyal to their childhood friends. I don't have any friends from my childhood anymore. Probably cause I moved to Amersfoort and certainly because it didn't feel right anymore. Now I have friends here in Amersfoort. And still making new friends. Even though I am 44 now.
So it is possible! Don't give up
Partly because of expats my children are not able to find a house in the Netherlands. They are 24 and 25 now. They cannot afford to buy a house in the Netherlands, because the prices are crazy. Why do you think it is oke to move here from the United States and live here? Because we have better health insurance? More vacation days? All these things my parents and their parents fought for. Do you think you just can come here and profit from this? Please stay in the US and try to fix your own country.
Very realistic and nuanced; as a Dutch person I totally understand your points
Why do expats want to live in a city? I live in a village near Rotterdam, 20 min. to the centre with bus and metro and it's great, 10 min. cycling and you are in the middle of nature on beautyful bicycle paths
Very good to hear the not so positive points, I wellcome it, thanks!!
The Dutch always like to say "we should be happy to live in this country, because....", while there are lots of points where you can be equally as good or better of in other European countries.
All the best from Duiven!
On ‘Challenging to integrate’ -> ‘they won’t let you into their friend group unless you speak Dutch’ Do you expect your new Dutch friends to speak English? Or are you planning on learning and speaking Dutch? Can you please explain why you are expecting your new friends to speak English and why it is not the other way around (you learning to speak Dutch)?
No, we don’t expect them to speak English at all, actually. We’ve already taken one Dutch course, and are about to start our second (B2 level and higher.) We try to speak Dutch whenever we’re out and about (at a cafe, grocery store, market, etc.)
We also have a video on why expats should learn Dutch on our channel and basic useful phrases we’ve learned, if you’re curious.
Thank you for watching!
That’s awesome thanks!
I'm curious, why did you not mention the health care system at all? You have friends who have experienced the Dutch health care system, and I gather you also have experience with the Dutch system. This could be a huge attraction to Americans who can lose everything after having to pay hospital bills. For me, I would never consider moving to the US for that reason alone, although there are plenty others.
We’ve discussed the health system at length in some of our previous videos (especially regarding our fertility journey.) We’re planning on doing a video solely on healthcare in the future. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the heads-up. How are you dealing with having to file US taxes (given the US and Eritrea are the only countries in the world that impose citizenship-based taxation)? I've heard horror stories about expats having to pay tax preparers thousands to keep it all straight.
I moved here alone, it is not for the faint of heart! Housing is no joke. It’s almost 2 years and I just feel like I’m settling in. It is so different than most of the US so people should know what they are getting into. Living in high density areas has it’s ups and downs.
For social housing the waiting list is over a decade in some places. That’s why people get irked about immigrants jumping the queue. The main gripes with immigration is that it’s getting so full over here. Stuffing 18 million people in an area about the size of Maryland (which has about 1/3rd of the population of the Netherlands) will get you that.
Well we take in too many immigrants. We just can't handle that because the homees are not built as quickly as people coming in. In that sense they could better move to Germany maybe.
@@Ozymandias1 Yes, I totally understand but in my experience, immigrants like me can not take social housing. It was super hard as a non Dutch citizen for me to find an apartment and I pay considerably more because of it in a private owned apartment. I’m not complaining, I think I should. The foreign investors that own my building are more of a worry to me. Just like the US, foreign investors are hiding their dirty money in housing. Also, I live outside a big city so hopefully that helps not taking housing from people that need to be in the city.
I waited 10 years (whiIe renting a room in somebody's house) to get a tiny 'aanIeunhuisje' in a viIIiage outside the city and another 6 years to get a house that nobody eIse wanted because it was on the waiting Iist to be torn down. 🤪
Salary expectation, to be fair, how many hrs did u work in the states and how many hrs do u in the Netherlands, and did u have paid vacation days in the states, sick days, so if you take it into account, it's pretty good to stay here, although it can always be better
Yes, that’s a great point for sure.
every move is hard even a move to Belgium will be hard for us. But I hope you can live a happy life here in The netherlands 🌷😘
Very typical, you are not allowed to have 2 passports, but lots of Turkish and Moroccan originating, Dutch citizens have 2. And the king even has Dutch, British, Canadian and US passports.
A frank & wise appraisal.
I couIdn't heIp but smiIe when you were taIking about 'convenience' .. when I first arrived in HoIIand in the 70s, peopIe food shopped daiIy (groenteboer, bakker, sIagerij, meIkboer (toetje) en sIijterij) because there weren't those Iarge American refrigerators avaiIabIe .. maybe just a tiny 'koeIkastje' if you were weaIthy.😁 I moved back to CaIifornina after 5 1/2 years, but decided to move to Virginia in the 80s and got the shock of my Iife when I discovered that even in America, their stores cIosed on Sundays and didn't even stay open aII night.🤪 Came back to The NetherIands in 1989 and have been here ever since. I suppose you're right that most peopIe make their friends when they're young or through their work, but I must not have been much of a sociaI butterfIy, maybe because I worked with the pubIic on such a grand scaIe that I was pIumb tired when I got home (indeed to my tiny apartment). I've Ioved wherever I've Iived though, each cuIture I've touched and every Ianguage I've attenpted to speak. I never experienced homesickness .. not that I didn't miss my famiIy/friends/country, but because I aIways knew it was avaiIabIe to me. I'm oId now so maybe that's not reaIIy true anymore. In any event, I Iove watching other expats share their experiences. Have a great Iife for as Iong as you choose to stay here. P.S. what kind of work do the two of you have? 🌹
I have a question regarding there being both progressive parts of NL and conservative ones. Even the most conservative NL community is still subject to Dutch & EU laws, right? So there would still be, for example, safe access to abortion, LGBTQ rights, and common sense gun laws, right? The same can not be said for many US states that are majority conservative.
Yes, no matter where you live, the laws are the same, so things like access to abortion clinics and LGBTQ rights are the same wherever you live. There is a string of villages that form what we call the Bible Belt. In the past all shops there were closed on Sundays, but now supermarkets are open that day just like everywhere else. However there won’t be much else to do there that day, except for church services. As far as gun violence is concerned, that only happens in the major cities. Not the mass shootings like in the US, but between competing drug gangs. Unfortunately these criminals sometimes err in the address and innocent people can become the victim.
One perhaps odd thing about LGBTQ rights: gay people get more harassed and discriminated in the larger “progressive” cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam, were there are far more Muslims than in smaller towns and villages. Definitely not all Muslims cause problems, but the bad behavior of a sizable group of nasty teenagers who beat up gays does damage the image of all Muslims here. In the Bible Belt the conservative Christians may not agree with your gay lifestyle,but they won’t attack or harass you.
Live in Michigan for the last 50 years and go back to my homeland every year ,miss alot from Holland. Would love to go back but my kids are in the US
From Texas to Amsterdam I moved ..best decision I ever made..love it it's amazing
Awesome. How do you find integrating into Dutch society?
seems to me a normal way to get into the living in our country, takes time and time will tell .. if you cant get used to certain things you will leave again, or you find yourseves getting the hang of it, loving life here. The world is the world, make of it what you want. But be grateful for what you got.
You forgot to mention the weather! 🤦♂️
The looooong winter months, where you go to/from work in darkness. Ugh.
The many days where you don’t see the sun.
Very easy to get the “winter blues” or SAD( seasonal affect disorder) in NL.
Most expat video's on youtube are like "oh it's like heaven here in the netherlands" , so I'm very happy with this video. I love my country but like every country it has it's pro's en cons and people that want to imigrate here should be prepared for that. About housing: it's a small country we simply don't have enough space for huge houses and gardens.
Thank you, we felt like it was important to address a few of the things we experienced as we transitioned. No place is perfect. We appreciate you watching!
Excellent vlog, T&T! Another consideration before packing your life up and moving abroad is that if you have children, please be sure to think about what they might go through as well, especially in the first several months. It will be hard on them, being uprooted from everything they know, friends and family that they will be leaving behind, and adapting to a new way of life.
But why throw it on you-tube !
Make a case on internet
where you can inform us Dutchies and make your own (objectiv or subjectiv) experience clear also for other Americans.
*RUclips* is not the place if you think about it.
Also you are not the norm
while other intelligent people know things you warn them about at fore-hand.
Practice is difficult for every foreigner ofcource.
Put it in the place where it belongs.
😉🌹
Shortly: should we change some copper to some gold?
Woerden? That reminds me of a story...
Den Haag, zo sprak een woerd, is blijkbaar
Per trein uit Utrecht onbereikbaar.
Want telkens als ik het probeer,
Begint een goudgebiesde heer
Zijn longen vol met lucht te happen,
En roept dan: "Woerden, overstappen!"
(Poem by Trijntje Fop)
Living in Amsterdam is like permanent vacation..only difference is u go to bank..pay bills check mail... after doing that u can walk around do whatever you want u have This awesome environment 24 / 7
That’s awesome that you feel that way! Sounds like you’re integrating pretty flawlessly. Unfortunately, we don’t think it’s that easy for most people, so you’re lucky!
We love our lives here in The Netherlands, but we don’t view it as a holiday at all. There are so many positives of living here, which many of our videos focus on. We don’t want to sugarcoat it,
As far as cons go, There’s trying to integrate into Dutch society, learning a new language, navigating a foreign healthcare system, dual taxes, etc. Not to mention homesickness!
both sides of my family left the Netherlands after WW 1, if I were younger I would definitely move back, I'm sure my great grampa would be re- considering his decision right now
It is true that finding a house in The Netherlands is hard. But America does also have Dutch homes 😮. Like Amityville yes, the scary house with its past. In The Netherlands these types of houses still exist also in the North East of the Netherlands or in older towns 😇👍🏽
Wait what Amityville is a Dutch house/home???
If so awesome love it i'm a huge fan of horror movies and i'm a Dutch person still living here in the Netherlands.
It is why Amityville house is also called a Dutch Colonial with dutch architecture 😇👍🏽
Fun fact: average living space per capita is much higher in the Netherlands than in neighbouring countries. So if you think we live small, don't move to Germany or Belgium ;)
Look i wouldn't go and live in the US for a million bucks, not because it isn't a good country but because i love my country and love the things about it like the cities with all its history, my friends and just the understanding of how stuff goes on here, the type of humor, the inside jokes. i feel connected to that and you guys obviously feel and are American and like the things you grew up with. I understand this 100%, so that's why I'm still surprised why you guys even live here? i want you guys to love it here but it doesn't sound like you would choose this country over the US, so why are you guys here?
We love our lives here so much. This video is more of a cautionary tale for Americans who dream of moving to Europe. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be, certainly not perfect, but perfect for us and the family we’re hoping to have here. Hopefully that clears things up a bit.
It's a good question to ask. I ask myself the same question after living in venlo the last 8 months. I myself can only part answer it that I don't feel at home in England anymore. Maybe that's why they left the us. Further for me the brexit and my 2 young kids live in venlo. So looks like I'm moving back there next month. You are lucky you love your country of birth. Many people dont.
These people want to bring the US and their way of life to the Netherlands. First thing if you move to another country, learn the language, adapt There is a shortage of housing , If you want to live in Amsterdam of course it's expensive, so is NY
I live in Friesland. Have a large house and garden. Why would people want to go to the Randstad? Houses are for sale here. Nice old cities and towns, lot of nature. And the second official language of the Netherlands: Frisian.
We have yet to make it to Friesland, but we are planning a visit there soon. We’re looking forward to it.
Just watched your video. And it is very sad that you feel this way. It’s also a bit narrowminded to see the things you’re missing out of. Sure there are misfits everywhere you go. Sure the houses are smaller. But then again; the houses in the states are unreal big. And have a huge carbon footprint per person. I could go on, but glad to see that there are about a hundred positive video’s posted by Americans who moved here to the one you did. Maybe learn a bit of the language? That might integrate you two a bit more? Just a tip….
This video is a cautionary tale for Americans wanting to move here. No country is 100% perfect. If you’ve caught any of our other content, you’d realize that it’s overwhelmingly positive. We also are learning Dutch, which you’d also know if you watched any of our other videos. Thanks for the tip though. I’d refrain from judging before you know more, maybe do your research before jumping to conclusions.
Appreciate you watching.
Lets put it like this:
Conservative people (whether they are American or any other nationals) should not move to the Netherlands or actually not move anywhere in the world! People that expect that their surroundings should adapt to their - somehow grown superiority complex - should stay home (and preferably indoors of that home).
Only imagine a Dutch family moving to Texas and insisting to keep speaking Dutch, demand supermarket to start selling Dutch food, candy etc.
And maybe dig into "why certain things have developped the way they are". If Texas would have been a overpopulated state with a similar history as the Netherlands, chances are they would have much more in common. This leads to the statement: if you decide to settle somewhere else, keep your prejudices behind, prepare by thorough investigation out front and know you will have to adapt and that will not be easy, but it is the only natural way to proceed in life!